Business Software Alliance "Grace Period"

The BSA is running (until January 31) a "Grace Period" for "voluntary compliance" in the cities of San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose, Houston,Norfolk/Richmond, Nashville, Indianapolis, Bozeman, and Orlando. Small businesses recieve a card in the mail, having been assigned a tracking number, so you know you're in their files. In previous press releases they state that they send out up to 700,000 of these cards simultaneously. Scanning their reported settlement victories, they then seem to pick 2-4 business to destroy. If the businesses don't go along, the BSA hires the Federal Marshals as mercenaries to help ensure compliance with their extortion. Microsoft, unsurprisngly, is a big supporter of this and pushes it to vendors as a chance to strengthen customer relations. (this is a powerpoint document, but thankfully you can also have it: translated via google). CD: Here is a link to the press release on this matter.

Comments

BSA

[nurightshu]

Am I the only sleep-deprived person who read the front page blurb thinking that the Boy Scouts of America would be sending storm troopers into the homes of 700,000 random citizens?

Guten Morgen! Ve are from ze Boy Scouts, und ve must this home search! After we have zis done, ve vill force you...to tie knots!

Re:BSA

[krmt]

Perhaps this is their Eagle Scout project?

Re:BSA

[Allnighterking]

Sieg Hiel ...... Seig Hiel ...... Sieg Hiel.....

Couple of notes. According to the Federal Marshals office. They aren't going to coperate unless proper court orders are issued. According to my local police department... call us and we'll boot there Nazi asses outa town. (can't say what dept it is since it's an off the record quote.) Oh and by the way BSA is a trademark of the Boy Scouts of America.... seems that they are violating Trademark and Copyright laws themselves.

Re:BSA

[nathanm]

Oh and by the way BSA is a trademark of the Boy Scouts of America.... seems that they are violating Trademark and Copyright laws themselves.

Trademarks can be the same if they're in different kinds of business. That's why there could be both Apple Records & Apple Computer.

Doing a search for BSA at the US Patent & Trademark Office yielded 64 trademarks with BSA in it, including this BSA, the Boy Scouts, & others.

Copyrights only protect a specific document. So if you write an article about the BSA (acknowledging their trademark of course) the article's copyright belongs to you. Just look at the bottom of each page on /. where it says "comments are owned by the Poster." So this comment is © Copyright 2002, me.

Re:BSA

[graxrmelg]

So if you write an article about the BSA (acknowledging their trademark of course) ...

Unless you get a thrill out of being a lackey of trademark lawyers, you have no obligation to acknowledge their trademark in any way when you're simply writing an article about them. Have you ever seen a trademark indicated in a newspaper article?

Re:BSA

[Duke]

"Oh and by the way BSA is a trademark of the Boy Scouts of America..."

That is why, to avoid confusion, I always refer to them as the BS Alliance.

Re:BSA

[nathanm]

Interesting example that you chose there.

I chose it because it's one of the most well known lawsuits regarding trademark disputes using the same name. In my search when I made the original post, the Apple Records trademark is listed as dead & abandoned.

How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, let's say you steal $50,000 from the bank, and the police come to your house and say "Give us the $50,000 or we'll throw you in jail." Is that extortion? Hardly.

Why do people think that illegally copying software is a right? If you don't want to pay for software, use open-source software instead. Isn't that why we're all here -- to promote open source software solutions? Why are we hell bent on also trying to legitamize bootlegged software, when doing so does nothing but make "free software advocates" look like a bunch of freeloaders?

I wish people would understand that free software is exactly the opposite of freeloading -- it's giving your work away for the public good. Articles like this one put me in the same group of people that are on the side of the illegal theft of intellectual property that someone has chosen not to make public. It's someone else's right to ask me to pay for software, just as it's my right to give it away for free.

Go write free software. Go use free software. Go evangelize free software. But please, don't be so fucking petty as to complain about someone enforcing the fact that their software isn't free.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[Anonymous DWord]

How about the fact that the BSA (I get the BS part, anyway) sends out these cards without discretion? OK, let's say you run Linux or BSD or whatever, and the police come to your house and say "Give us the $50,000 you owe us for software you're not even running." What about companies that legitimately purchase licenses for all their software? It ain't free to audit an organization with 20,000 users, no matter how much documentation you've saved. Who do you think foots the bill for that, even if they're compliant? It sure isn't the BSA, savior of the software industry.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[Ironpoint]

>OK, let's say you steal $50,000 from the bank, and the police come to your house and say "Give us the $50,000 or we'll throw you in jail." Is that extortion? Hardly.

Yes that is a perfect example of extortion. Non-extortion would be to uphold the law which means an unconditional arrest.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[daemonc]

The difference is this:

Situation 1 - The police come to your house with a warrant, because you are a suspect in a crime, and they follow rules of search and seizure as mandated by the constitution.

Situation 2 - Someone from a non-profit organization that you've never heard of (which happens to be a front for a certain Software Company, which has been found in a court of law to illegally maintain its monopoly on the software industry) comes to your house and demands to see what you have installed on your computer.

The first situation is called "enforcing the law". I don't know what you would call the second situation, but under some circumstances it might be "extortion".

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[mpe]

OK, let's say you steal $50,000 from the bank, and the police come to your house and say "Give us the $50,000 or we'll throw you in jail." Is that extortion? Hardly.

But going to every house and saying this, which is a far better analogy of what the BSA is doing, most certainly would be.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[JatTDB]

Speaking as a technology worker in one of the cities selected for this operation last June/July, this is 99% scare tactic, 1% actual enforcement. Just about every organization that my company provides IT services to received the infamous letter. At the same time, local TV and radio stations were running ads that were part of this campaign. As a result, every single one of our clients went through and audited all of their software licenses. Discrepancies that were found (not many) were resolved, and most organizations bought a few "extra" licenses, "just to be on the safe side". I have a feeling that my experiences are not unique, and that this operation's real purpose wass a quick cash infusion for the software companies involved.

Yeah, once in a while they do bother to actually bust a company (usually based on inside information from a disgruntled (ex-)employee), but that's not nearly as cost-effective for them. Much cheaper to send out a few form letters and buy a few radio/TV spots than to mount a real investigation, and the financial results are better.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[Monte]

Why do people think that illegally copying software is a right?

Why do trolls (BSA included) assume we've been stealing software?

HTH. HAND.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[jejones]

Check out a recent thread on /. about a Borland EULA that includes a clause claiming the right to look at your stuff. How many people, I wonder, actually read EULAs?

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[LittleGuy]

More like:

"We think you have stolen merchandise in your home. We're going to search it, and if you don't have a receipt for everything here, we're going to assume it's stolen, so you'll have to pay for it again, plus pay penalties. And remember, the proof is on you."

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[realdpk]

Good, but with one correction.

"We think you have stolen merchandise in your home. You're going to hire or pay people to generate a list of all of the items in your home, and if you don't have a receipt for everything here, we're going to assume it's stolen, so you'll have to pay for it again, plus pay penalties. We won't compensate you for the search."

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[sam@caveman.org]

i don't read EULAs because for the most part they are not enforceable, because as everyone knows, nobody reads EULAs.

-sam

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[Jones E. Versichoran]

The problem with what you are saying is that the BSA is just an organization for the promotion of certain individuals interests - i.e. software manufacturers. They shouldn't be enforcing anything!

Imagine if I write a piece of software, release it under a proprietary license and then decide I can march into anyone's house to make sure they're only using as many licenses as they've bought? Imagine I did that to you... you'd probably sock me in the face, and if you didn't I'd honestly wonder why.

While I'm in total agreement with you - the answer to this kind of corporate thugism is to create alternatives vis-a-vis free software - I think this community is totally in the right for crying foul over what is essentially vigilante action by a software cartel. This should be police activity, acted upon only under warrant, and not organized by private citizens.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[Amazing Quantum Man]

OK, let's say you steal $50,000 from the bank, and the police come to your house and say "Give us the $50,000 or we'll throw you in jail." Is that extortion? Hardly.

Except, it's the bank manager knocking on your door (with police officers behind him) saying, "I think you stole $50,000, prove you didn't, to my satisfaction, or pay me the $50,000 no questions asked, or these cops will throw you in jail".

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[dhogaza]

Since no one is claiming that copying licensed software is a right, you're raising a strawman.

That's not the issue. The issue is the non-trivial audit cost to licensees who are legally using the software, and the non-trivial audit costs plus penalties to those who may well have paid for a software license but may've lost the documentation.

And the audit provisions of the licenses are one-way, something ignored by organizations when they signed them.

By this I mean that the vendor has no obligation to record whether or not they've already been paid for a license. They can double-charge legal licensees who may've lost their documentation.

In many cases the customer may've assumed that the vendor keeps customer records, for instance. Given that Microsoft pays large-account sales people in part on a commission basis, we *know* they keep records at some levels. And these records are used, I'm sure, to generate revenue forecasts and to set sales goals.

But the customer being audited has no right to ask Microsoft to prove that they haven't paid, or that their license fees are out of line with the number of copies being used.

Nope. It's all one way, and this means organizations end up paying twice in some cases for software that's been legally licensed.

Now ... what the hell does any of the above have to do with your presumption that "people think that illegally copying software is a right", dipshit?

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[opkool]

Something similar happened to a Mandrake Linux Shop, when they recieved a threatening letter from BSA as posted on alt.os.linux.mandrake:

Check out the post started the thread .

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[Gaijin42]

That works fine, assuming your company never needs tech support from microsoft, and never needs to buy any additional software from microsoft.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[d.valued]

Umm.. no.

If you have a sufficiently large or sufficiently smart company, they WILL read the license agreement, be it a EULA or a Site LA.

These are CONTRACTS. They offer it, and by using the software, you agree to it. They offer a way out for compensation.

Legalia isn't something you just 'pray it goes OK'. You have to read and scrutinize anything that's got the smell of the law dialect.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[GlassUser]

Right to bear arms, baby, right to bear arms. I love living in Texas, too. Someone busts in my house (which conveniently completely surrounds my home office), *bang* they're dead. Now, of course I'm going to extend a courtesy to law officials, at least give them a chance to tell me they don't have a warrant before perforation ensues.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[Amazing Quantum Man]

Oh, I agree. I was just converting the OP's argument to what the BSA *ACTUALLY* does.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[hawk]

>OK, let's say you steal $50,000 from the bank,
>and the police come to your house and
>say "Give us the $50,000 or we'll throw you in
>jail." Is that extortion? Hardly.

Correct. But "prove to us that every single dollar in your house came from a legitimate source or give it to us for having come from the bank robbery, or we will inflict tens of thousands of dollars in legal expenses while attempting to collect hundreds of thousandsof dollars from you" is another matter entirely, and far closer to this mass-mailing.

I don't use pirated software, but tracing through years of file cabinets to prove that I purchased everything that I paid for would be intrusive and take many hours.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure that I can even boot *any* of the computers that have any commercial software installed on them. The old macportable needs the power socket soldered on again, and I have no idea where to get the connector for my thinkpad 486 powersupply(a silly d-shape with four conductors). These will yield tetris, word 5.1, excel 4, supercard, pre-fee hypercard, and a few miscellaneous utilities I purchased, while the thinkpad will yield drdos, master of orion,and, uhh, that's all that's on the dos partition. Did I pay for these? yes. Could I find every scrap of documentation in any reasonable amount o time? [*insert maniacal laughter here*]

hawk, who would have *loved* to receive one of these while still practicing law full time

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[fedos]

they asked if we purchased any new licenses as a result of the mailing and what licenses we had purchased.

To which you answered: we haven't bought any new licenses yet, we can't seem to agree on which distro of Linux to get.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[cduffy]

CONTRACTS, as you put it, require CONSIDERATION -- that is, there must be something in it for both parties. When you purchase a piece of software from a third party, you automatically have the right to do whatever you want with it, excluding violating copyright. Think of it this way: When you buy a board from a lumber company, you don't need a contract with them to be able to build a house with it, do you?

Since a EULA gives you nothing you didn't have when you bought the software it fails to meet the basic requirements for a contract and can be safely disregarded (presuming you have a halfway-competant lawyer).

Oh -- but IANAL, and this is not legal advice. Talk to your own (real) lawyer before actually doing as I just advised.

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[crucini]

hawk, who would have *loved* to receive one of these while still practicing law full time

Do you know something we don't? Because it looks like almost nobody can stand up to these people. Snap-On appears to be the only victim to be publicly exonerated, and they chose not to countersue. Do you feel that there is room for a savvy lawyer to hit back? Only if the client is 100% clean, or assuming a normal amount of violations?

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[dattaway]

And that's not all! The IRS would love to see a piece of the pie also. Uh oh, no tax receipts? Don't forget, the IRS will be armed too!

Re:How is it "extortion" to enforce the law?

[hawk]

No, it's that given the circumstances, along with the fact that my machines & software were 100% legal, I could have safely handled the matter myself.

I had enough free time that fighting back against a heavy-handed and abusiive action would have become a hobby--and, ultimately, a profitable one.

I'd be looking for damages in the event of machine confiscation, and on top of that, lining up lawyers to separately represent every single client who had confidential information on the machine. Given the nature of my malpractice carrier (pay real claims quickly, but fight frivolous ones to the end with no settlement offer),I might have been able to get help from them, as well.

There were too many times I had toback down because my client couldn't afford the fight--including someone I had to plead guilty to a sex crime that I'm reasonably confidant that, not only did he not commit it, but that I could show who had manipulated the child.

This would have been payback time for all of those, and I would have loved every second.

hawk

Where are they getting tips from

[Lokni]

I run a one person operation out of my house and I got one of these letters. What do they do, go down the list of businesses in an area and figure EVERYBODY is pirating their software? I am ingnoring everything they send me. If they want to send a federal marshall to my house, I will see their ass in court. I haven't run windows for about 2 years now, and have never had any employees to rat on me for using "illegal software." Pirate my ass. More than anything this makes me want to start doing file sharing on every piece of software I own.

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[Anonymous DWord]

You should provide them with an "anonymous" tip about all the software you're "stealing." Have you ever seen the online form they have for reporting piracy? There's a little section on it that you can check- "I believe that this company would attempt to eliminate the pirated software if they were informed beforehand," or something like that. Check that off, and then sue them when they bust in and steal all your Linux boxen, depriving you of work.

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[Alsee]

I run a one person operation out of my house and I got one of these letters.

Similar story here. We got one of their letters a year or so ago. Small family business, non-existant for the last few years. I can't imagine what obsolete list they were using.

Well, at least it was good for a chuckle before permanent storage in the circular file for future reference.

-

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[erlenic]

I heard a radio ad here in St. Louis yesterday soliciting tips from disgruntled employees. It had the tone of "If you want to get back at your boss, report him for piracy!" I really hate radio to begin with, but that was the first time something I heard on it actually made me sick to my stomach.

My dad's company was targeted by this about a year ago. They think it was an employee that left a little before that, but I wonder about that now, because the guy they suspect was always trying to bring pirated and "student" versions of software to work, and the company kept trying to stop him. Their lawyer finally sent the BSA a letter demanding certain things, proof of pirating being the key thing, and they still haven't heard back from them in 9 months. It seems they shut the hell up if you try to stand up to them.

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[biglig2]

IYes, that is exactly how they work.

You do need to be careful with your strategy, though. I don't know what the exact position is in the US, but bear in mind that where they can, the BSA have whichever local law they bring in with them *confiscate* your computers as "evidence". How long it's going to take you to get them back I leave as an exercise to the reader. How long your business will stay afloat without your computers ditto.

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[Wendel T. Shaggy]

You are a registered business?

You don't have a registered WindowsXX (Office, etc.) license?

=> You are obviously a pirate!

The logic is quite simple. (and scary)

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[Mignon]

Here's what you do:

1. Get an old POS computer and monitor.
2. Install Linux, including X.
3. On a buddy's Windows machine, make a bitmap of the whole screen, with several MS applications prominently featured.
4. On the POS Linux box, run X with no window manager and don't run any applications.
5. Set that bitmap as the background on your POS Linux box.

Let the marshals confiscate that box, while they pass by your own, super-leet computer that doesn't even look like a computer.

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[billcopc]

Simple : Tell them you don't own a business, since you're at home. Then tell them to fsck off before you sue/shoot them. Or you could just go straight to shooting without warning (they are trespassing, after all).

The BSA is just an incompetent bunch of tie-wearing thugs. They handle M$ and others' dirty work every once in a while, just to scare the others.

They don't own any software, they don't have any licensing contracts with you, and they don't give you a plushie if you're compliant. Bottom line : they have no legal right to enter your premises, even less so to futz around on your PCs and collect data. Time to load that shotgun!

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[dasunt]

Assume its easy to backup data to a secure online storage site (ftp, anyone?)

Assume that the cost of new computers and restoring the data is significantly less then the potential outcome of a lawsuite against the police and BSA. Also, consider the moral implications of what you are doing (which is basically teaching the BSA a lesson, in my book).

I say, you'd probably come out ahead. And there is tons of free publicity involved here too. :)

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[Fishstick]

Similar kind of scare tactic here in Chicago last summer.

The radio spot said something to the effect that the BSA gets most of its tips from former or current disgruntled employees. Then went on to add, If your company has no former or current disgruntled employees, you can disregard this announcement. Otherwise, contact blah blah blah during this grace period. The BSA *will* be returning to the Chicago area later this year to follow up on all anonymous tips it receives, and you can save yourself and your company big headaches by making sure you are in compliance *now*!

Man, that sounded really out of line. It is one thing to try to get companies to pay for all the software it uses, yet another to use tactics like these.

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[Alan Cox]

If you got an letter that can in any way be held to be threatening, malicious or falsely alledging you can be prosecuted make sure the document isnt violating any laws.

In the UK our equivalent (FAST) are normally a little better behaved but when they stepped out of line people did go to the police and to advertising standards to complain about receiving threatening letters, false advertising and the like

Whats more is the advertising standards authority sided with the people against FAST, and if they do it again that way they'll get a nasty suprise.

You would think that the BSA would get further if it was the nice guy. Very few companies want to violate licenses, and most of those who pay licenses really dont like those who dont pay.

Mind you, if you bought a copy of Kylix or installed some versions of MS media player, you've already given the license holder in the USA at least the right to enter your home and check you for compliance, mp3 files and whatever they like.

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[bjtuna]

You should provide them with an "anonymous" tip about all the software you're "stealing." Have you ever seen the online
form they have for reporting piracy? There's a little section on it that you can check- "I believe that this company would
attempt to eliminate the pirated software if they were informed beforehand," or something like that. Check that off, and then sue
them when they bust in and steal all your Linux boxen, depriving you of work.

I am not a lawyer, but that sounds a little like entrapment.

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[unDees]

Let the marshals confiscate that box, while they pass by your own, super-leet computer that doesn't even look like a computer.

No, officer, that's not a computer, that's, er, a table lamp.

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[Reziac]

IANAL either, but to my understanding of the law, "entrapment" only applies to what law enforcement agencies and personnel can do. Private individuals (including corporations) are not so constrained in their efforts to assemble "evidence".

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[Reziac]

I *think* you're agreeing with me. Basically I said that private parties CAN use entrapment (BSA tactics would qualify). AFAIK only law enforcement agencies and personnel are prohibited from entrapment.

Re:Where are they getting tips from

[cduffy]

You can shoot people for tresspassing... in Texas.

so what exactly is this?

[Barbarian]

So how exactly does this work? If you're a business in that area, do they send you a "card", and demand you reply with a statement saying that you're 100% compliant or they'll sue the pants off of you?

Re:so what exactly is this?

[JatTDB]

Actually, it's really more like if you're a business in that area, they send you a form letter, and hope you panic and buy a bunch of licenses to make sure your ass is covered, and they never do much of anything to anyone. At least, that's how it went down in Atlanta when they did this last summer...

Tone excuses illegal copying

[Paul Johnson]

...mercenaries to help ensure compliance with their extortion...

Or in other words making people pay what they agreed to pay when they started using the software. Its not like they didn't have a choice.

Emotive words like "mercenaries" and "extortion" don't help, any more than words like "piracy" and "software theft".

Meantime this is an excellent time to stop preaching to the choir and start telling those businesses about open source software. Issue press releases. Get interviewed by radio and TV.

Paul.

Re:Tone excuses illegal copying

[billcopc]

The point isn't about piracy.. it's about harassing the hell out of everyone without any legal backing. True, buying proper licenses is the "right way", and that's how it should be.

That doesn't mean these guys can just walk in and raid your office however they see fit. I don't let the cops in without a warrant, so I wouldn't let the BSA in without a cop AND a warrant. They have no reasonable proof that I _MAY_ be using unlicensed software, so in theory they _SHOULD_ have no way of getting a search warrant. Anonymous tips on their web site don't count as 'reasonable proof', because no one can be held accountable. What they are doing is cooperative fraud, teaming with the megawhores of software. If at least they stood up for the small guys (like all the cheap fucks who used cracks and keygens on my old doorgames), then maybe I could find some sympathy for their extortionary tactics, but they don't and I won't.

Re:Tone excuses illegal copying

[ichimunki]

Whatever. Have you actually gotten one of these BSA letters? The tone of the letters is very much the tone of someone doing extortion. In fact, they call it a "truce". I didn't know I was even at war! The BSA are hired soldiers (aka mercenaries) in this war. I got one of these letters and for the purposes of discussion I scanned it and posted it on my website. Just type 'microsoft' at the prompt. I agree if you want to use MS software (or anyone's proprietary software) you should pay the price they ask for it, but I hardly think given the threatening tone and guilty-until-proven-innocent methodology, that we users should have to watch the way we speak out in response.

The radio ads are deceptive...

[Shenyang]

...I just heard one these ads on a local AM talk radio station. The announcer said "you only need one former or disgruntled employee to pick up the phone" and gave Jan. 31 as the date by which you should buy some software. Even after visiting the BSA web site, it is still unclear to me how one obtains this amnesty - surely just buying some software and saving the receipt isn't enough? (i.e., when the marshals storm your office, showing them a receipt from Fry's probably won't cut the mustard.)

Re:The radio ads are deceptive...

[ethereal]

Somehow I'm imagining a version of "The Running Man", where frightened IT managers must scurry around town buying licenses for their neglected department while avoiding BSA sharpshooters and merciless bounty hunters. If you manage to get all your machines licensed before they get you, you win the prize!

Hrmm...

[ImaLamer]

See the last story.

If they can do this, shouldn't we ask that they be held liable for faulty products?

{I know that software isn't perfect, but they believe their data is worth that price... what do you get when they are responsible for losing yours?}

Re:Hrmm...

[ImaLamer]

See the Linux community guarantee an operating system that it produces with real money behind it.

The difference is two-fold. Many people are getting their linux for free. 'You get what you pay for' could apply, but you are getting more than that. RedHat doesn't raid your office when they think you are using two copies when you've bought one. When M$ does this, they imply that their data is worth something - but limited liability says yours isn't.

The problem is also that the community, mainly, doesn't profit from the work that is done. But they, and people who do profit, are ALWAYS working to make sure that your OS is secure and stable.

It's the fact that M$ doesn't make an effort that bothers me [and others]. Patches aren't released on a timely basis, they don't come out and say when something is 'broken', they aren't doing much to fix already shipped and broken products.

If they worked harder to secure their products, the question wouldn't be there. Because RedHat has errata updates, debian has 'apt-get upgrade' and similar systems are in place - your data is watched over a lot more than when you are using a Microsoft product.

They have MSNBC... why not tell customers to update there? Hell, even use the auto update features of XP to update systems... don't sit on the patch for weeks.

Guilty until proven innocent?

[4im]

Do these BSA guys realise what they are doing? Scaring off their customers? Being extremely arrogant and intrusive? What about that old adage of your customer being the king?

I guess _this_ is one of the best reasons for switching away from vendors that are members of the BSA: None of those license troubles with free software. None of those expensive audits to do (is that included in those MS TCO calculations?). None of those guilt assumptions. No insecurity.

Re:Guilty until proven innocent?

[BlueUnderwear]

If someone is pirating your software, they aren't really your customer now, are they.

Wrong. A company might well have 2137 legal copies of a software, plus 5 it has no license for (either intentionally or inadvertedly).

For the 2137 legal copies, it would be a customer.

For the 5 illegal ones, it would be a pirate.

So yes, somebody can be both your customer and a pirate.

Re:Guilty until proven innocent?

[sam@caveman.org]

scaring off their customers

where else are they going to get microsoft windows, which they have to have in order to work and play? it's called a monopoly, and this is called abuse of monopoly powers. if there was a real choice in operating systems, they would never, ever, ever do this, because everyone they pestered would switch to a different vendor.

this is why a vertical microsoft breakup was necessary, with competing 'microsoft windows' companies. as long as they were not allowed to form a defacto-monopoly again by joining these 'alliances', competition would naturally keep these nasty practices very, very far from your doors.

this is also why the RIAA and the MPAA should be considered monopolies, because once the few big 'competitors' are in bed together, they may as well be one company.

-sam

Re:Guilty until proven innocent?

[Tackhead]

> this is also why the RIAA and the MPAA should be considered monopolies, because once the few big 'competitors' are in bed together, they may as well be one company.

Oh, great. Stop giving Rosen and Valenti ideas.

"We notice that you have both a television and a computer with speakers and a CD-ROM drive. The HCA (Home Content Alliance) would like to audit your home to ensure that you're entitled to view all the content you happen to own.

Your credit card records show that your purchases of DVDs and major-label CDs are in the first quartile - that is, 75% of the population purchases more RIAA and MPAA-endorsed content than you. Are you sure you're legit?

If you're not legit, we're offering an amnesty. You have until January 31, 2002 to purchase the CDs of all the MP3z you've ever listened to, and the DVDs of all the DiVX ;-)'s you're watching.

Our agents will be breaking down your door^W^W^W^Wcontacting you shortly. Thank you for helping support our efforts to bring Americans more quality entertainment!"

The BSA threatened me (or rather, "Stumpy McGee")

[IvyMike]

A while back, for work, I had to download something from Microsoft that required "a Passport account." As it turns out, they accept hotmail accounts for this purpose, too. The particular hotmail account's used here had a "real" name of "Stumpy McGee". However, when I signed up for the account, I did use my real USPS mailing address.

Flash forward six months. I start receiving random mailings from Microsoft, Adobe, etc., warning Stumpy McGee of "Fancy Schmancy Puters" that he's probably got pirated software in his company, and that disgruntled employees are lining up to report him, probably. The letter left little doubt that Stumpy was headed for big trouble. But of course, Stumpy could run the "Self-Audit" software and they would take it easy on him.

My question: Has anybody actually run this self-audit software? (I don't think they have a Linux version, so I was out of luck. Did I say "I was out of luck?" I meant Stumpy was out of luck, not me...) What exactly does the spyware do on your system?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Nice spin Slashdot..

[onion2k]

..the BSA hires the Federal Marshals as mercenaries to help ensure compliance with their extortion..

Well, thanks for that nicely impartial journalist attitude there. Its amazing what a simple line can do to affect the inflection of a story.

Instead, how about..

'the BSA hires Federal Marshals to ensure the hard work and effort by its members is not stolen by parasitic scum who steal like common thieves.'

I develop software for a small company. I'm quite lucky to be where I am now, doing what I want to. I also work on OSS as a hobby.. (Such as a perl port of PG+ that runs Uberworld.) Trust me, if ever I meet someone offering me a 'warez' copy of something I wrote I certianly won't be giving them a big cheery grin..

Re:Nice spin Slashdot..

[Anonymous DWord]

Unfortunately, it's not the job of Federal Marshals to be "hired" and enforce software licensing for a company convicted of overcharging for its products. Is there no other crime that can be targeted, that we have to have Federal Governmental police support for a company?

Re:Nice spin Slashdot..

[gnovos]

develop software for a small company. I'm quite lucky to be where I am now, doing what I want to.

And imagine how quickly your "small software company" would be out of business if I sent in an anonymous tip saying that you had illegal software and in response they took your computers as evidence. No matter that you were in compliance, you know. Sure they'll give your computers back eventually, but can your small business survive 5-6 months without them?

You know, I would love to have all the criminals in jail, but not if that means taking people one by one and throwing them in jail until they can prove that they are innocent...

This is precisely what I have been talking about

[xxSOUL_EATERxx]

Note the use of Orwellian doublespeak euphemism in the BSA's chilling press release:

...for whatever reason, some businesses may not have managed their software assets properly
Translation: Robbers! Sinners! Repent, O ye unclean ones!

The Grace Period ...is a great opportunity for businesses to resolve any compliance issues before they become subjects of a BSA investigation.
Translation: the Gestapo is on the way. Grab your ankles and smile.

The Business Software Alliance (BSA) is the voice of the world's software and Internet industry
Translation: The BSA is out to squeeze every last possible dollar out of software users

BSA worldwide members include Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Bentley Systems, CNC Software/Mastercam, FileMaker, Macromedia, Microsoft, Symantec, and Unigraphics Solutions
No comment necessary.

Those who scoff at Open Source/GNU should consider whether they want to live in a world where the tentacles of the BSA and their ilk -- and in an increasingly digitized world, expect, oh yes, do expect similar organizations to crop up defending the interests of digital text publishers, media broadcasters, etc.-- extend, oozing, slimy and cold, into every crevice and opening of what we used to quaintly refer to as our "private lives".

"The List"

[ImaLamer]

I know that I've signed up for magazine trials using business names, my mother's house is even registered at Microsoft because I wanted something for free from them many years ago.

Will they call me? What happens when they show up and see my blank CDs sitting next to my PC? I don't use them for piracy, but I'm betting they will be all over me like flies on shit.

I hope ZDNet hasn't sold them their list from PCWeek magazine, or the like. Do you know how many web sites make you put something down for 'company' or 'job title'. Plenty of sites want that data for marketing, but it doesn't always apply.

Methods, means and policy

[mpawlo]

From a business perspective the copyright proprietors need to protect their revenue sources. Thus, scaring companies to pay for their product through BSA is one method of achieving this.

Under current copyright and contract law, BSA is free to represent its members and do what's described in this article.

However, I find its methods too severe and too aggressive. BSA should consider helping the companies to comply with licenses rather than scaring them and send in the police. If BSA developed a good license administration tool and released it under the GNU GPL or any open source license with the source code, I think many companies would improve in their license compliance.

Some companies will steal anything they can, but most companies are serious and should not be treated as criminals. Doing a good license audit today is very costly and hard to administer for a small or medium sized company. BSA should treat the potential costumers of its members with respect and appreciate this problem. Developing an administrative solution and perhaps a license crawling spider - with very open code - is a much better way of helping the companies than by using cease-and-desist-letters.

Hence, BSA should consider a different and more customer friendly policy. We, the public, should consider an evalutation of the copyright system for computer programs at large.

Regards

Mikael

Re:Methods, means and policy

[crucini]

BSA should consider helping the companies to comply with licenses rather than scaring them and send in the police.

BSA gets to keep the money they collect from their victims. "Helping" doesn't sound very lucrative. Given that they are making millions right now, why exactly would they want to switch? And why would they want to reduce the uncertainty in software licensing? If software licensing were airtight, BSA would not be able to threaten anyone, and they'd be out of business.

I am 100% supportive of this...

[bani]

And let me explain why.
(moderators: this is not a troll.)

The harder the BSA come down on companies like a ton of bricks, the more attractive open source alternatives will be.

The microsoft licensing schemes are so convoluted that even if you buy stuff from legit resellers bundled with your PCs, you still may be technically in violation of m$ licensing, depending on how your software is being used.

It's almost impossible for large corporations to be 100% sure of total compliance, even if all their software is purchased legitimately. And the BSA knows this. It's exactly like the mafia's "protection" racket.

Fortunately corporations now have a legit means of escape. Replace NT servers with Linux ones. The cost of switching to Linux might be high, but often the cost of having to "get compliant" is higher. And Linux is a one time cost, whereas you can be assured the BSA will be knocking on your door regularly if they think they can get away with it.

So I say bring on the BSA gestapo! They will be inadvertently helping promote open source alternatives, it's better promotion than Linux could ever buy (though we can exploit the situation if we choose :-)

Re:I am 100% supportive of this...

[krmt]

The flipside is that if they comply, and the majority will, they will find that they have invested enormous amounts of money in the software now, and they are damn sure going to get their worth out of it! This will close up chances for Free Software on these kinds of systems, because no business is going to replace their brand new expensive software with Linux after paying out the ass.

I'm more scared about this personally. These companies, particularly Microsoft, are so well entrenched that they can do this. It means that they have the majority of companies by the balls, and they can do what they will to them. Sure, Free stuff will seem attractive, but the bottom line is that they will want to get the maximum value out of their investment. Scary.

Re:I am 100% supportive of this...

[treat]

You lose your money when you pay for the thing, not when you throw it to the garbage can.

That is not how (big) businesses think. When wasting a large amount of money on something frivolous - especially software - the people responsible don't want anyone to realize it was a mistake. They do everything they can to keep people from using any software that competes with their solution (that they probably got a kickback for anyway).

Re:I am 100% supportive of this...

[fungai]

You're right. About 4 years ago our company was about 50 people small, and we got an opportunity to become a MCP (Microsoft Cerified Partner), because an MCSE joined our company. At that stage it sounded great, the marketing people really liked the idea of being a "Microsoft Partner" and on top of it we got a buch of software licenses with the deal. It included (but was not limited to) an exchange server with 50 CALs, SQL server with 50 CALs etc etc. So ofcourse when later that year we started investigating a new mail server exchange was the obvious choice. It had everything we need, plus a buch of other "cool stuff". Up till then we were a Novell / Linux shop on the server side. So we basicially start using exchange 'cause we can do it for free and exveryone's happy (it's actually quite stable any everything). The next year, however, we want to renew our MCP program. Only this year we only get 1 Server (instead of 5) and 10 CALs. Which means for us and our branch office we have to buy 2 licenses of WinNT + Exchange + 40 CALs. Quite expensive for a small company. Forward back about 3.5 years and we are 250 people and MS sends us 'scare letter' and we have to buy about 200 NT + exchange CALs. Also a lot of money. In any case, there's no way getting rid of exchange now. Worst decision I ever made.

Re:I am 100% supportive of this...

[Svartalf]

"The flipside is that if they comply, and the majority will, they will find that they have invested enormous amounts of money in the software now, and they are damn sure going to get their worth out of it! This will close up chances for Free Software on these kinds of systems, because no business is going to replace their brand new expensive software with Linux after paying out the ass."

Drawback with "compliance" is that they'll be coming by a-knocking again in due time pushing for more audits and more compliance. It's like any other protection racket. Sure, this is initially going to close some doors, but there's only so many businesses out there to roust- they're going to have to go through the process all over again in a couple of years.

Re:I am 100% supportive of this...

[Dr.Dubious DDQ]

This will close up chances for Free Software on these kinds of systems, because no business is going to replace their brand new expensive software with Linux after paying out the ass.

This is something of an issue of "IT Department marketing". No, the higher-ups probably wouldn't be too fond of the idea of "throwing away the stuff we bought"....but they might have no problem whatsoever with "free OS and software upgrade licenses (for, e.g. Linux or BSD and Apache, etc.) available for NT and IIS users (and everybody else, but you don't need to emphasize that, necessarily...)"

RIAA

[inKubus]

Imagine if the RIAA sent a card to every person in America asking them to sign a statement saying they don't own any pirated music, and if they don't sign, you can be raided by federal marshalls for suspicion of piracy. A long time ago, I thought 2002 would be a good year. Finally peace on Earth, regular space missions, a moon base, etc. Instead we have endless bickering over a few dollars worth of binary digits that somehow do something that is expected to be traded for money or something else of value. A few dollars worth of binary digits that, if you refuse to Opt Out of a legal battle by signing a statement, will mean you are subject to illegal search and seizure. This would be like the Government sending a card for everyone to sign stating they "don't have any illegal weapons" and if you don't sign, you are immediately suspected of owning illegal weapons. Whatever happened to the 5th Amendment? Whatever happened to being innocent until PROVEN guilty? Are they going to take that right away now?

Re:RIAA

[Safety Cap]

Whatever happened to being innocent until PROVEN guilty?

Sorry, that is a myth. If you were presumed innocent first, you never would have been charged with a crime, or--in this case--be suspect of piracy.

Don't forget the kids!

[Wee]

Whatever you do, don't forget to indoctrinate the kids as part of your campaign for social justice for software licensing. And remind the kids what they can do when they find a pirate. You may think of a pirate as mom or dad, but they are really thieves who should be reported immediately. As Chad Codemaster knows, there can be no innovation if software is copied. God forbid what would happen if the actual source to a program got released to the thieving masses. How would a developer eat?

-B

Re:Don't forget the kids!

[ThePilgrim]

Wasn't there somthing in 1984 about the INGSOC youth ratting on their parents?

Re:Don't forget the kids!

[Happy Monkey]

Worse - it was copyright Scholastic, Inc. They make those mini-newsletters given to school kids.

Re:The BSA threatened me (or rather, "Stumpy McGee

[Anonymous DWord]

That Stumpy. Never thinking ahead. He should never have pissed off ol' KnickKnack Wotherspoon, his disgruntled employee. No wonder he got reported.

I love automated letters. You can always tell who sold their mailing list when you start getting mail for "Firstname Lastname."

forced audit?

[Barbarian]

So under what terms do they force this audit? Is this part of the large site license agreements that companies sign onto?

Re:forced audit?

[Anonymous Coward]

No.

I'm speaking here as someone who, a couple years ago, was working in the IS department of a company which was hit by one of these threatening letters.

Generally, they instruct the target company to run their auditing software to "prove" that they are in compliance with all software licenses on site. Such letters of instruction usually include a threat of legal action if the company does not comply. The threat is their standard operating procedure - it doesn't matter if you are 100% legal.

Since most companies would rather not pay to defend against a frivolous lawsuit, or risk an oversight of some software than Joe Employee may have installed, they end up performing the audit. The BSA doesn't offer any compensation for IS hours lost due to this audit.

They also arrange penalties for any discovered "violations". Some of these can quickly get out of hand. For example, in my case, a copy of WordPerfect 5.1 (yes, in 1997!) was lying around on a Netware server which 350 people had access to. Nobody even knew it was there. Guess how many times that violation stacked up, even though no one was using the software.

Although Slashdot's writeup sounds biased, it really IS extortion taking place.

- SEAL

Had a call from BSA once ...

[Nicolas MONNET]

They offered to help me track down potential license infrigements. And certainly, I could provide him with a list of software I'm using.

The comical effect was lost as the clueless telemarketer could'nt find "lunix", "apache" and "perl" in his list.

"It's open-s... nevermind, I have a meeting bye"

How's the law ?

[Molina the Bofh]

I don't know how the law in America is, but I believe the marshalls would need a judge order to invade a business place, wouldn't they ? Or can they simply break in any place they feel like and confiscate everything?

It's also my understanding that this judge order would require some kind of piracy proof to be issued.
Wouldn't it create the chicken-and-egg problem ?

How does it work ?

Re:How's the law ?

[kindbud]

Graft. An order can be obtained from a judge if he is properly lubricated first. But this is usually not necessary, since there are plenty of judges who are simply derelict, and will sign any order presented to them.

Re:How's the law ?

[SuiteSisterMary]

The BSA will often claim an 'anonymous tip' and that'll get the court order. You can assume they know which judges to go to, as well.

Go BSA!

[TheFrood]

Do these BSA guys realise what they are doing? Scaring off their customers? Being extremely arrogant and intrusive? What about that old adage of your customer being the king?

I guess _this_ is one of the best reasons for switching away from vendors that are members of the BSA: None of those license troubles with free software. None of those expensive audits to do (is that included in those MS TCO calculations?). None of those guilt assumptions. No insecurity.

I think one of the main reasons free software hasn't caught on is that most people get their software (beer-)free anyway, whether it's supposed to be free or not. After all, why install and learn, say, Mandrake+KDE+KOffice when you can just install someone else's copies of NT and MSOffice and not have to learn anything new?

So as a free/open-source supporter, I'm all in favor of the BSA cracking down on copyright violators. If they make sure everyone pays full price for their proprietary software, people will start giving serious consideration to the truly free alternatives.

TheFrood

Fuck you, slashdot.

[GoRK]

No matter how you hype it, it's just not legal for a company to own (or sometimes not) a single copy of Adobe Photoshop or Microsoft Office and run it on 10's or 100's of computers. Somebody has to enforce the law or it breaks down. Incedentally, it's the same copyright law that keeps your GPL software free that they are protecting!

If they scare off their customers, GOOD! The companies have the option not to use proprietary licensed software, maybe if they get some fines, they'll consider the alternatives.

Jesus christ, they aren't sending Federal Marshalls storming into a business for no reason. That could not happen without some sort of precident. I don't believe that the BSA has ever done this and not uncovered mountains of software license violations.

Some of you editors are such fucking hypocrites to cry foul and hire in the gestapo when some company viloates the GPL in *A SINGLE CASE* yet you bitch and moan about your rights and privacy when Microsoft hires BSA to uncover *TENS OF THOUSANDS* of violations to their licenses. What's worse is that I probably hate M$ more than you do, but if there's one thing I can't stand, it's a stupid person. michael and chrisd are topping this list right about now.

~GoRK

Re:Fuck you, slashdot.

[Nicolas MONNET]

" No matter how you hype it, it's just not legal for a company to own (or sometimes not) a single copy of Adobe Photoshop or Microsoft Office and run it on 10's or 100's of computers. Somebody has to enforce the law or it breaks down. "

This somebody is supposed to be the "police" and "justice", or it breaks down.

"Incedentally, it's the same copyright law that keeps your GPL software free that they are protecting! "

The GPL uses the copyright system against itself. Without copyright, there would be little need for GPL.

Re:Fuck you, slashdot.

[Cryogenes]

Jesus christ, they aren't sending Federal Marshalls storming into a business for no reason. That could not happen without some sort of precident. I don't believe that the BSA has ever done this and not uncovered mountains of software license violations.

Did you read in the article that the BSA were sending like 700.000 of these threats at a time?
Obviously, all the evidence they need for sending someone a letter is that they run a business.

OK, now suppose your business has a clear policy of never using pirated software. So what can you do?

1. You run the self-audit software. It is closed-source spyware, you have no idea what it will report, and you cannot expect any compensation if it breaks your mission-critical machine. This is an ugly option and there is no good reason why a honest businessman should be subjected to it. And nobody, guilty or innocent, would subject themselves to this voluntarily.

2. You "refuse to cooperate". Then you will get a visit from law enforcement, probably greatly disrupting your operation. Moreover, if they find anything wrong - your sysadmin made a mistake, or some stupid employee downloaded a serial number for Winzip - then you will have to pay for the exercise. Even if everything is actually perfect, something may be construed against you and you will face further expenses defending yourself.

Now tell me again that this is only fair.

Re:Fuck you, slashdot.

[mpe]

No matter how you hype it, it's just not legal for a company to own (or sometimes not) a single copy of Adobe Photoshop or Microsoft Office and run it on 10's or 100's of computers.

?Acually there is a fairly obvious situation where this would be perfectly "legal" That is where the company in question has the relevent licences.

Re:Fuck you, slashdot.

[Hard_Code]

Perhaps you want to live in a society where everybody has free reign to invade your life to verify that you are indeed not breaking any laws, but I'd sure as hell live in one where I was presumed *innocent* before proven guilty, not the other way around. The BSA should not be able to use scare tactics to single out and destroy arbitrary companies. Do you think this is a good thing? They should either bring lawsuits against ALL companies, and either lose the suits or engender so much bad will that nobody will every want to use their products, or not bring any at all. Any one company should not be allowed to scaremonger and arbitrarily cripple other companies by yelling "fire" in the free market.

Re:Fuck you, slashdot.

[haruharaharu]

Jesus christ, they aren't sending Federal Marshalls storming into a business for no reason. That could not happen without some sort of precident. I don't believe that the BSA has ever done this and not uncovered mountains of software license violations.

Actually, they are. The last time this ran, someone recounted how the BSA raided their company (with federal marshalls), shut it down for 3 days, destroyed several Sun workstations while trying to run their software on them and then tried to walk away. Oh, and they didn't actually find anything.

Re:Fuck you, slashdot.

[Wesley Everest]

Hell, even if all your software is legit, if you have unfree software on your systems, you might have lost your "papers" that prove you are a law-abiding citizen.

All the software at my work is legit, but you can bet some of the CDs are lost behind a filing cabinet somewhere. If they have no evidence that my company has pirated software, they have no legal right to force my company to pay me a few hundred dollars to dig through my office to find every last CD. And clearly, it is cheaper to just pay the money to the company. Sure sounds like extortion to me.

Here we have an organization that represents at least one criminal organization, shaking down businesses with a threat of illegal actions (raids without probable cause are unconstitutional, and frivilous lawsuits are also illegal) if they don't pay money. That's extortion. Sure, it's hard to make things stick against such powerful organizations, but that doesn't change the facts.

Someone needs to do a write-up on the expense of these raids. Clearly, this needs to be factored into Microsoft's "Total Cost of Ownership" bullshit, since MS-free companies have much less to lose in a raid.

Re:Fuck you, slashdot.

[GoRK]

How do you think you'd feel if you wrote a GPL'd app and 10,000 variants sprang up all without source code and all publicly distributed? What if the police are doing nothing about it? How else do you fight it?

If you agree that there should be controls to prevent software piracy (ie license violations -- this would include both free/non-free software "piracy") then how do you propose these controls should be implemented?

Re:Fuck you, slashdot.

[GoRK]

Again, you don't have to buy the software if you don't like the license.

Your argument is kind of the same as saying "a car doesn't care who's driving it" so you shouldn't care if someone steals your car.

Re:Fuck you, slashdot.

[johnnyb]

Without copyright you could still use and copy it for free, or even disassemble it or reverse-compile it. I imagine those tools would be in even greater use.

Again, without copyright, there is no need for GPL.

Extortion?

[Chasuk]

Let's put this perspective. Let's say that I own a business manufacturing foo X's, and I have a friend who manufactures a related product (foo Y). We know that we are being illegally deprived of millions of dollars annually, but the law doesn't adequately protect us. We have been in our particular industry for a long time, and we each know of many other businesses in a similar situation. We form an alliance with all of these businesses, and we work with the government to help stop the crimes against us.

Suddenly, by announcing a grace period for these criminals, we are extortionists? Since when did extortion include benevolence?

The legal definition of extortion is: the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right. 18 U.S.C. S 1951(b)(2).

The key words here are wrongful use. Is it wrong, when someone has stolen something from you, to offer them a conditional amnesty? You steal from me, and not some hypothetic company, and I'll do everything I can to see you put in jail.

Calling this extortion is akin to the robbery victim who pleads on the news for the return of his wallet - no questions asked - and all will be forgiven: is the victim then the extortionist?

I note that Borland, the developers of Kylix, is a member of the BSA. Are they evil for expecting people to pay for some of their products? Or, because Microsoft is also a member, does that mean that OF COURSE it is extortion, and OF COURSE the federal marshals are mercenaries? Or will the federal marshals be exempted when they are protecting your ass on an airliner?

Is that the equation? Federal Marshals On Airlines = Good Guys, Federal Marshals Helping Microsoft/the BSA = Bad Guys? And if the BSA are really extortionists, does that make the marshals guilty of aiding and abetting?

Re:Extortion?

[banky]

I think the difference is, that they're a private individual (corporation) going after another individual (corporation) and because the former (BSA) has more money than the latter (me), they can buy sufficient legal strength to potentially deprive me of my rights; the government could not use the tactics the BSA does without getting in big trouble.

Re:Extortion?

[nolife]

We know that we are being illegally deprived of millions of dollars annually.

How do you just "know" this and how do you know who much or what the extent is? How do you know WHO is doing it and to what extent? Are you going to try to use averages to justify searching everyone?

I'll do everything I can to see you put in jail.

Including searching the business before even knowing that they are running your software?
So how do you know what companies are running your software? Should you just assume every business is and then make them prove they are not?

You are innocent until proven guilty in the US. You can not search without proable cause. You do not get probable cause because you are a business that some company targets software at. Even if past experierence shows 80% of companies searched had some fubar license issues does not give justification to search more. It plainly shows that 20% of your "probable cause" claims are completely false.

Imagine a MLA (Media License Assoc.) Imagine getting a letter in the mail stating a MLA rep will be by your house later in the week to examine ALL of your video tapes, audio cassettes, CD's, players, cable boxes, Macrovision removers, computer HD's, etc for unauthorized media. Would you let him in? After all, they got an anonymous tip stating you copied a Shrek DVD onto VHS so the kids could watch it in the van but they left it playing in the family room when they went for a trip in the van. I bet there is a better chance a consumer would have some form of illegal media then a business has illegal software. Does this simple fact give probable cause to search everyones house?

Re:Extortion?

[bubbasatan]

Let's start this off here:

"We know that we are being illegally deprived of millions of dollars annually..."

Wrong. You are guilty of assuming that the people who pirate software would otherwise pay your company for that software. I can guarantee you that the guy who steals cars would not otherwise pay GM, Ford, Toyota, etc. the value of those cars. The millions that you and the BSA and others like to flaunt as damages or deprivations are a bunch of crap, only touted to try to win sympathy for a bastard cause.

Next:
"The key words here are wrongful use. Is it wrong, when someone has stolen something from you, to offer them a conditional amnesty?"

Uh, yes. It is wrong. It is indicative of the fact that the BSA knows that what they're doing does constitute extortion under any legal or other definition of the term. The BSA has no legitimate power of their own. None. Zilch. Nada. They are not a law enforcement agency. Tbey are not a court of law. The only thing they are is a kangaroo court full of fools. When they attempt to use their illegitimate power to threaten me, "under color of official right," they commit extortion. Plain and simple. They have no right to interfere in any matter pertaining to me or my business. I do not have any contract with the BSA whereby I grant them license to extort my money/property. Perhaps they would like it if I investigated them for something animal poaching. I have no right to do so, nor any proof that they are actually illegally killing animals, but I'll surely grant them amnesty (conditionally, of course) if they will pay me a few hundred thousand dollars!

And finally:

"Calling this extortion is akin to the robbery victim who pleads on the news for the return of his wallet - no questions asked - and all will be forgiven: is the victim then the extortionist?"

There's a big difference. A robbery victim can usually offer pretty good evidence that he/she has actually been deprived of property. The BSA cannot. Instead, the BSA sends out hundreds of thousands of notices telling people/businesses that they are probably guilty of stealing, but they can be forgiven -provided they are willing to break out the checkbook. Isn't that what Jim Baker and the other televangelists used to do -- selling forgiveness? To further your analogy, the BSA is not pleading on the news for the return of their property. Rather, what the BSA is doing would be akin to rounding up a group of thousands of potential suspects, even though only a few may have actually committed the robbery, and telling them all that they could purchase amnesty for the low low price of $$$bling-bling. It doesn't mattter that the overwhelming majority are not guilty. All that matters to the BSA is that they collect enough money to remain solvent until next year's extortions begin. The BSA acts as though you are guilty until proven innocent, there's no way are you gonna sell me that vaporware.

Re:Extortion?

[Sloppy]

The key words here are wrongful use. Is it wrong, when someone has stolen something from you, to offer them a conditional amnesty?

No, there's nothing wrong with that. But that's only half of what these letters do.

Is it wrong, when someone has not stolen something from you, to threaten them with the prospect of a court order that they must hire an auditor? Is it wrong, when someone has not stolen something from you, to threaten to confiscate their computers as evidence (so that they can be examined to verify that no theft has occurred), leaving them to run their business without computers?

Don't you see how innocent people, who have not stolen anything, are being subjected to threats of force? These mailings are being sent to a lot of businesses, not just ones where there is a reasonable suspicion of theft.

Re:Extortion?

[Chasuk]

Let's start this off here:

Wrong. You are guilty of assuming that the people who pirate software would otherwise pay your company for that software.

The people who pirate software either do it for the kudos of their peers in the "l33t" warez community, because they are anal-retentive collectors, or because they actually use the software and a) can't afford to purchase it or b) can afford to purchase it but have no qualms about being thieves (or some combination). If they are using it, they should pay for it. So I am guilty of nothing. If you are using commercial software that you can afford to purchase and you choose not to, then you are a thief, and depriving programmers of their due.

Next:

Uh, yes. It is wrong. It is indicative of the fact that the BSA knows that what they're doing does constitute extortion under any legal or other definition of the term... and so on in an irrelevant tangent. You have refuted nothing with your bullshit. Verbiage without substance is easy.

And finally:

There's a big difference. A robbery victim can usually offer pretty good evidence that he/she has actually been deprived of property.

Again, bullshit. Federal marshals don't go marching into anyone's premises until they have convinced a judge to issue a warrant. INAL, but I do know that waarants aren't issued willy nilly. A judge has to be convinced, first, that a crime has been committed. Of course, sometimes mistakes will be made. However, I'd be willing to bet that, in the majority of cases, the BSA doesn't both securing a case unless they are near-100% certain that they can also secure a conviction.

Re:Extortion?

[Chasuk]

Are you going to try to use averages to justify searching everyone?

The BSA doesn't perform the searches unless they have been legally authorized to do so by a judge. This is not _everyone_, obviously, but only those businesses on whom the BSA has collected enough evidence that a judge is convinced of probable wrong-doing.

You are innocent until proven guilty in the US. You can not search without proable cause. You do not get probable cause because you are a business that some company targets software at.

See above.

Imagine a MLA (Media License Assoc.)... Imagine getting a letter in the mail stating a MLA rep will be by your house later in the week to examine ALL of your video tapes, audio cassettes, CD's, players, cable boxes, Macrovision removers, computer HD's, etc for unauthorized media.... I bet there is a better chance a consumer would have some form of illegal media then a business has illegal software. Does this simple fact give probable cause to search everyones house?

No, it doesn't. See above.

What is it like?

[labradore]

I suppose BSA members have decided for themselves that they would rather attack people and instill fear and loathing to acquire money rather than to share what they have at no cost to themselves. On that basis the BSA activities sound immoral. The BSA member would seem to choose distrust of fellow men over community, generosity or respect. The BSA member does have a legitimate need to get a return on investment. Would you attack others as the BSA does to extract money if you already had what you needed? If you had more or much more than you needed? The wealthiest companies in the BSA are highly immoral by this standard.

If you were a struggling proprietary commercial software developer would you join the BSA? Would you want to be associated with the immoral wealthiest companies and individuals in its ranks?

I think a better tactic to use to keep the majority of your user group in the paying customer category is to make your product worth buying and to make your product more valuable when it is purchased from you. By virtue of its (limited) success RedHat seems to be a company that exemplifies this tactic since its product is available free almost everywhere but people and companies still buy its products and it is very nearly profitable. A proprietary software developer should have no problem finding ways to make its product more attractive to buy than to copy, since it doesn't have the handicap of selling Free software.

Re:What is it like?

[wfberg]

"The BSA member does have a legitimate need to get a return on investment"

while copyright is a legitimate right, there is NO such thing as a right on ROI. What next, companies sueing you for NOT buying OR illegally copying their software, therefore cutting off their main supplies of income, sales and litigation? Methinks not.

Re:What is it like?

[Nicolas MONNET]

If you were a struggling proprietary commercial software developer would you join the BSA?
Is Microsoft a member of BSA? Are they struggling? Seriously.

Re:What is it like?

[kindbud]

...while copyright is a legitimate right...

Uhh, no. Freedom of speech is a right. Copyright is a privilege, a bargain to try and balance the right to free speech with a publisher's need to make a profit to stay in business and produce more content.

Now hold on a minute...

[LadyLucky]

I'm a software developer. I write java web applications. I would be extrememly pissed off to find out that someone is pirating my software, somewhere. If they do that, they deserve everything coming to them.

People will always find some excuse for piracy, but until someone is pirating YOUR software, i really dont think you have any right to excuse yourself. It's theft of intellectual property. Don't do it, even if you have philosophical problems with Microsoft.

Don't believe the hype

[vandan]

These guys are nothing more than SPAMMERS.
So they have a database. Big woop; so do SPAMMERS.
Our company took the path "Oh SHIT. Buy licences for all our software, and QUICK!". Of course I managed to make a 30% saving by installing StarOffice 5.2, and then 6-beta. I suggest everyone else do the same. There are issues; there's no denying that it's 100% compatible etc. But for God's sake, it's sooooooooo close that it doesn't matter. So everyone find a friend who has downloaded StarOffice 6-beta (the beta period / download is over), or better yet have a go at OpenOffice. It rocks. And you'll never have licensing problems again. Still not convinced? How about searching on Google for StarOffice + pdf and following the instructions for setting up your own PDF writer via Ghostscript. It works like a fucking charm! People email us and say "Hey. That must have cost a bit...". And we say "Yes. Actually it was all free." Good stuff.
If someone can't find the PDF instructions, reply to this post and I'll email you the instructions.

Re:The BSA threatened me (or rather, "Stumpy McGee

[Zocalo]

I love automated letters. You can always tell who sold their mailing list when you start getting mail for "Firstname Lastname."

I *never* use "Firstname Lastname". I always work something to do with the company whose list it is in there, and none too subtly either, so that if it turns up in spam I know who to bitch at. I'd like to see the look on their face when "Firstname Lastname" turned out to be "Microsoft Corporation". ;)

Is the BSA multinational?

[t0qer]

I went to the BSA site, and was reading the recent raids when I read this exerpt
Raided were Espina, Perez-Espina & Associates, an architectural and construction company located at the 2nd floor, The House of Architects, Juana Osmeña Ext., Cebu City, and, Arlington Engineering Services, an engineering design firm in Green Valley Subdivision, Lahug, Cebu City.

The NBI, after securing search warrants from Judge Benigno Gaviola of Cebu City Regional Trial Court, found four PCs of Espina, Perez-Espina & Associates allegedly loaded with unlicensed Adobe, Autodesk and Microsoft software. The NBI seized 13 PCs allegedly loaded with Autodesk software from Arlington Engineering Services. Total assets, including hardware and software, confiscated from the two raids was valued at almost P5 million pesos.

Well this just gives me terrified thoughts of the frito bandito crashing through my window screaming "BADGES? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN BADGES!"

Commercial Break....

[maroberts]

I have this idea for a Linux commercial for any distributor who wants to run it...

Scene: People working at PCs in Office
Suddenly the door bursts open and in come a group of lawyers accompanied by Federal Marshals

Lawyer: "Business Software Alliance! We're here to check all your software licences. If you are running illegal software you may be fined thousands of ponds and go to jail for 5 years. Here's our search warrant"

Manager: (smug grin) "Go ahead - we're all running Linux!"

Exit BSA....

Re:Commercial Break....

[SuiteSisterMary]

Or you could read this older ask slashdot comment that points out that they'll try to reformat Sun boxes to install their windows based piracy finders.

What self-audit software?

[wideangle]

You mean Belarc Advisor?

It's free, and doesn't report anything back to anyone.
In other words, it's not spyware or adware.

Actually a pretty useful tool.
Not only tells you what you have on your system,
but reports free memory slots and current CPU speed as well.

Print the output, use as a handy reference.
Should you ever reformat, the list might come in handy.

You'll likely discover software you didn't know you had.

Re:What self-audit software?

[Tackhead]

> [Belarc Advisor] You'll likely discover software you didn't know you had.

Well, from the standpoint of those who fund the SPA, isn't that the point?

"Shit, I don't remember ordering 30 licenses of XP and 5 copies of Adobe Premiere for my 30-person Solaris-only shop, but I must have, 'cuz the SPA's audit software said I did!"

Re:What self-audit software?

[Reziac]

Um... and what installed files and registry changes will I discover Belarc Advisor has created on my system?

Re:Umm, who cares?

[Zocalo]

When I 'steal', software from Gnutella, I am depriving no one of their software, like I deprived your Mother of a car.

Sorry, but this argument is typical warez k1dd13 bullshit. Theft is when you illegally deprive someone of something that is rightfully theirs. Software piracy deprives the retailer, distributor and manufacturers of the software you stole of some revenue. You might get some satisfaction from hitting out at the evil corporations, but there is no avoiding the issue that piracy is still theft.

If you can't afford the software then you can either become a criminal, or, you can wake up, smell the roses, and move to the world of free software. It's not always a smooth ride to get there admittedly, but the destination makes it all worth while when you do.

French BSA

[mirko]

In France, the BSA had no legal presence (though they usually "spammed" people with their piracy-detection floppies and other funny letters.).
That's why an influent French Editor created an alternative organization : the Bidouilleurs Sans Argent which promotes the Free and/or free software.

Re:Umm, who cares?

[mpe]

The BSA gets to throw around a lot of clout because companies can't handle the expense of defending against a frivolous BSA lawsuit, even if they are 100% innocent.

But how well do you think the BSA would stand up were they the defendant, rather than the plaintiff?

I'm a software developer

[Anonymous Coward]

I write games. There are ROMs of my old games on the net. I don't care. I've already been paid. Perhaps they will create interest in a sequel. If the sites hosting them have glowing reviews and name the developers it boosts my ego. The company that published the games very likely *does* care, because it will want to release those games again, on new hardware (especially Game Boy Advance). Sheesh, the copyright holders have rereleased Pong and Gridrunner and Super Mario Bros 2 recently! Look at how many cover songs there are out there (and how song-writers are raking it in from back catalog, unlike games developers).

Yes, they are thieving scum.

[Moderation abuser]

I know of at least two small game developing companies who went bust after producing some very popular games.

Everyone had the games. They weren't even very expensive, just a couple of quid but 9 out of 10 copies were pirated.

This is what is driving my company to use OS

[Ice Tiger]

Recently the management in the company I work for has started to talk about using Open Source software a lot more. Not because it is "better" but because it makes the bottom line look good.

I suppose the fact that the "bottom up" approach of getting OS software in has something to do with it as well. One of the few projects that went in on time and on budget used java and OS instead of MS languages and tools, the fight we had to get the go ahead for not using MS tools was unreal.

Now I have management high up wanting to move our web based systems to OS, also we want to run Linux on our mainframe. Strangely enough we now have the capacity since fronting the former proprietory middleware with an OS based XMLRPC system. :)

It's slowly changing from fighting to use OS into becomming a no brainer for the higher ups. Especially as a lot of recent licencing changes have stung our bottom line.

About counter ads

[thogard]

Someone like Red Hat need to run an ad in the business section of each towns local news paper with a copy of the threating letter and let people know there is a better way...

They are fools if they don't use MS marketing when they can.

Re:About counter ads

[redGiraffe]

I completely agree.

We (the developers) have been pushing linux for a year now and use linux for our desktops/servers (java/mobile/web stuff). The rest looked down their noses at us, then along comes mircosoft with audits and gee, all of a sudden the md has redhat on his laptop! He does complain about document formatting, but its not a big deal, people seem to be moving to .pdf documents, be interested to see a survey..

If the distributers of linux don't takes advantage of this opertunity RIGHT NOW, it would be business suicide, because, ah, commercial OS manufacturers are going to spread a LOT of FUD to keep the market in check (watch this space).

Works For Me

[Greyfox]

I'd love to help people ensure compliance by installing Linux and Linux apps across the board. In the long run it'd cost less money for those businesses to do that. Probably in the short run too.

Attention: karma whores

[Boiling_point_]

50 comments already at +2 and nobody's posted a copy of the actual note. Did they mention a penalty for reproducing that, too??

(for comparison, here's six months ago's effort)

Re:I repeat my earlier advice: wipe your ass with

[snake_dad]

I'm pretty sure that sending biological hazards through mail is illegal these days... Well, at least it won't dry up to white powder.

What????

[leereyno]

TV licensing? What the $%#@#$?

Re:What????

[Jeremy Erwin]

It's £109 for colour, £36.50 for black and white, per year. The fine for unlicensed use is £1000. I'm not sure if this is per TV, as well. More information on this quaint British custom may be found at http://www.tv-l.co.uk.

Re:What????

[ThePilgrim]

The real nice thing about this is the BBC has to justify it's self to *US* the licence payers and not to it's share holders.

This gives us sutch gems as the Perfect Day video

Re:I repeat my earlier advice: wipe your ass with

[flacco]

I'm pretty sure that sending biological hazards through mail is illegal these days...

Can doctors' offices send stool samples to labs through the mail?

Re:Licensing

[ThePilgrim]

I actually don't mind paying the TV licences as some of that money goes towards radio and without that we would not have had

Yes (Prime)Minister
The Hitch Hickers Guide to the Galaxy
Goodness Grachous Me
The World Service
etc.

Hypocrites

[pubjames]

One of the things that angers me about this is that the software companies are such hypocrites. Most of them deliberately don't do very much to make it difficult to copy software, because they know that preventing all copying would be disadvantageous for them, and yet the accuse many otherwise perfectly law-abiding companies and organisations of the serious crime of theft. If I leave my front-door open I deserve to get robbed.

There are lots of techniques that they could use which would make it impossible (for Joe User at least) to install software on multiple machines, for instance by providing a floppy or USB dongle with the installation CDs which must be inserted the first time the software is installed and which won't let the user install again. They don't do this because they don't want it to be difficult to copy their software. So, by my way of thinking, to an extent they deserve the copying that occurs.

Re:Hypocrites

[SuiteSisterMary]

Or, say, providing a 'product activation' service that checks the hardware it's being installed on, then checks the hardware that it's next installed on?

Re:Hypocrites

[No Such Agency]

If I leave my front-door open I deserve to get robbed.

Actually you don't. You just have to expect that you'll get robbed. Nobody "deserves" to be a victim of crime, even Microsoft. What Microsoft "deserves" is legislation punishing them for their unethical and monopolistic business practices. Many large software companies probably *do* deliberately make their products copyable, because it broadens market base. Microsoft doesn't need to do this because they can bully system retailers into bundling Windows and thus essentially "force sales" on people who might not want to run windows on that new box, or who might get a pirate copy. Their market base is ensured by their near-monopoly. This is why you get Windows XP-like registration bulls*it.

Also, nobody in their right mind is going to include a "dongle" with software. Users hate them, they cost money to manufacture, and they generally cause your company name to be prefixed with "stupid f*cking" in a lot of conversations between potential customers.

Monopolies Don't Need Customer Service

[DG]

You're quite right that a BSA "audit" causes nothing but fear and resentment.

Who else does audits? The IRS. And when was the last time you heard anyone preaching their love of the IRS?

But with the IRS, you have no choice. You must pay your taxes, and they'll do what they have to get them, public relations be dammed.

Monopolies don't have to worry about customer service. Where else are you going to go?

Now hand over the money, slave.

DG

Re:Why is the BSA running Apache on FreeBSD ?

[fremar]

They probablycould not afford to pay for their license of WinXP + IIS :)

Bozeman??

[ch-chuck]

Yipper, pirate central of Montana fer sure!

"Theft" of software?

[lars_stefan_axelsson]

Theft is when you illegally deprive someone of something that is rightfully theirs. Software piracy deprives the retailer, distributor and manufacturers of the software you stole of some revenue.

Logically that argument holds water only if you were going to provide them with that revenue had you not violated their copyright in the first place. Hence if I illegaly copy a program that I wouldn't otherwise have bought, then I have not deprived the retailer of any revenue or potiential revenue.

Now this has little to do with theft as such. Dictionary.com gives the following definition of Larceny:

The unlawful taking and removing of another's personal property with the intent of permanently depriving the owner; theft.

Now the property you're refering to here is money. The copying of the software is clearly not 'stealing' in the sense above, since you do not deprive the owner of his software, he still has his copy. However, you're clearly not stealing his money either, since he still has his software to sell. What you may or may not have done is deprive him of possible future earnings, and that's a different crime entirely. It's called copyright violation in most of the world, and is still a crime.

Why is this important? Well, words and their intended meanings are the only means of communication we have, and going around calling copyright violation 'stealing' is akin to calling "driving while under the influence," "possession of narcotics with the intent to sell", or calling "murder", "tax evasion."

Such usage can only serve to dilute the commonly understood meaning of the words we use to communicate, and those who do so intentionally, in order to further their own agenda, deserve nothing but contempt.

Stealing software is when you grab a copy of Windows from the shelfs of CompUSA and exit without paying for it. Copying the same software off a server somewhere is a different crime entirely.

Stupid tracking number

[truesaer]

A few months back I received 4 of these cards in the mail telling me that my business could comply within X days without penalty, blah blah blah.

Only problem: I have no business, I'm a random college student. So, to summarize, they sent sent three duplicates of the nasty-gram, and to someone who isn't a business owner. I wouldn't worry about them being on to you if you get one of these...

Questions for attourneys out there

[wowbagger]

BSA sends me "the letter"
My response is the shortest English sentance, consisting of a verb (vulgar) and a direct object.
The show up with federal marshals and a warrent.

Question: cannot I counter-subpoena, requesting the name of the individual(s) that asserted I have pirated software, for the purposes of filing a "defamation of character" or "bearing false witness" suit?

If I do so, and they refuse, what then?
If they say "sorry, anonymous tip", can I then hold them accountable?
How can they get a warrent in a situation like that?

Can I bill them for time lost?

This all assumes that I am dead legal in all things - presume I am 100% Free Software.

Re:Questions for attourneys out there

[scrytch]

Question: cannot I counter-subpoena, requesting the name of the individual(s) that asserted I have pirated software, for the purposes of filing a "defamation of character" or "bearing false witness" suit?

You can try. They will counter by claiming various confidentiality contracts, claim the tip was anonymous, claim they didn't need the tip, then change the venue to 3 am in a disused lavatory in Kandahar with a sign on the door saying "beware of the leopard". In short, they will make sure you pay tens of thousands of clams in legal bills. Then they'll drop their investigation of you and ask for summary dismissal of your complaints because of that, you get to file your own brand new complaint, lather, rinse, repeat, and spend spend spend.

Re:Umm, who cares?

[arkanes]

I agree that the arguments that it's "okay" are generally bull honkey, but lets not get excessive. You aren't depriving anyone of anything that is "rightfully theirs". Nobody has a right to profit. It's piracy, not theft. Heck, it's not even piracy (assualt and robbery on the high seas?), it's copyright violation. It's very good for our industry that it's possible to sell software, but heck, it was very good for the coal industry to keep it's miners in perpetual serfdom. It's important to remember - there is no right to profit!

MS Inventory Analyzer

[theblackdeer]

you mean the microsoft software inventory analyzer? yeah, my company just finished with it. we ran it three times over the course of two weeks to get a good read on what products we have. it doesn't *appear* to be spyware, and it makes lists of what you got in HTML, .doc, or .xls formats. the software gets classified two ways; one, by product name (ex: Microsoft Office 2000 Pro), and by file location/name (ex: msoffice.exe, winword.exe, excel.exe, etc.).

the bottom line is that if your company really has been fudging some of the licensing numbers (like mine has), probably out of laziness, this software does work pretty fast, no bugs that we could see. 'course, it would figure that the only bug-free MS program we now own is the audit software. nothing like a good ROI, you know?

Re:This is precisely what I have been talking abou

[Enigma2175]

do expect similar organizations to crop up defending the interests of digital text publishers, media broadcasters, etc.-- extend, oozing, slimy and cold,

Oh, you mean like the RIAA or the MPAA? They already exist, and I believe both these organizations will turn to BSA-style tactics in the future.

I wonder if the cost of auditing...

[freeBill]

...is included in the latest "total cost of ownership" study Microsoft has purchased to show that Linux is really more expensive than overpriced bloatware.

Re:I repeat my earlier advice: wipe your ass with

[Pig Hogger]

For extra-effect, sprinkle white powder inside the enveloppe...

Boosting 1Q revenue in a soft economy

[swb]

That's what this is all about. You'll notice they never send these cards out in October or May or other times of the year. It strikes me as purely a gambit to get dollars in the first quarter when many businesses (especially in this economy) are really holding back on capital spending until later in the year.

By sending these cards out they'll get extra revenue they might not have gotten. It's just like the middle ages -- when the king's coffers were low, he sent his soldiers to the villages to collect extra tax.

Enforcement SOP

[virg_mattes]

The usual method for inspecting your stuff goes something like this. They send the letter, and you refuse/ignore the audit. They open a lawsuit charging you with copyright infringement, often based on evidence that's either sketchy or "from an anonymous tip." In the course of the lawsuit, the judge assigned issues a subpoena (or warrant, based on certain legal concerns) for your company's software records. If you don't pony them up, you face contempt and other possible criminal charges. If you do, then their lawyers examine your stuff and your records, and if something doesn't ken, you get fined. Since this whole process can get prohibitively expensive quickly, most companies will perform the audit and buy licenses to get compliant, which is the real reason behind the letters.

BTW, federal marshals are basically the "U.S. police force", as opposed to state police or local police. They're usually attached to the FBI office in the area in which they work.

Virg

Re:Enforcement SOP

[BlueUnderwear]

If you do, then their lawyers examine your stuff and your records, and if something doesn't ken, you get fined. Since this whole process can get prohibitively expensive quickly, most companies will perform the audit and buy licenses to get compliant, which is the real reason behind the letters.

And in case you're wondering: the main source of cost of this process is not actually the cost of additional licenses that you might need to purchase. No, it's the indirect cost to your business caused by being deprived of your working tools (PCs) and records (data stored on those PCs), and by the disruption caused by the presence of outside "investigators" on your premises. Which means that even businesses which are ok as far as licenses are concerned have it in their best interest to comply, rather than to risk having their equipment seized, even if the seizure is only "temporary" and for "evaluation of the evidence". Remember Steve Jackson games? They eventually got their equipment back ... but so late as to make it virtually worthless.

And it is this threat of indirect costs that makes the thing look suspiciously like extortion.

Re:Enforcement SOP

[abolith]

The company I work for got one of those letter about 6 months ago, followed by a phone call. The sys admin laughed it off and hung upon the the BSA guy. I guess they were pissed so they charged the company with not being compliant (even thought they had NO proof) when we went to court our laywer simple gave the judge proof that we use LINUX on our servers and a combo of LINUX/FreeBSD/mac os X on the desktops. judge got pissed at the BSA for wasting his time and not doing any research. I know this is an uncommon example but it was alot of fun to watch the whole thing unfold. After court ended our sys admin just laughed and told the BSA guy thanks for paying our lawyer for us. in the end we walked away without really paying much. it was cheaper but took longer. but to our bean counters the bottomline is all that matters.

Search Warrents?

[Raleel]

Do they get actual search warrents? Can you, say, deny them access to your computers? I don't think that Federal Marshals will bash in a door based on the word of a report via a web form from the BSA...

Microsoft

[Rand Race]

If Microsoft is so worried about rampant piracy, how come they make it so hard to detect multiple copies on the network? Two copies of Photoshop or Xpress with the same serial numbers won't run at the same time on the same LAN, they pop up a message saying "someone else is already using this, tough luck buddy" or some such. But Office does not do this.

I have one storebought copy of Office 2001 (Mac) and bought my 20 liscenses through this fucked up Microsoft liscensing web page. They didn't send me serial numbers, just a contract, so all 21 copies of Office here have the same serial number even though they are all legaly liscensed. Adobe and Quark OTOH gave me a list of serials when I bought my bulk liscenses. So if someone snakes the Office disk and installs it on his laptop and has it on the LAN I get zero warning that I have an unliscensed copy on the LAN. Thanks for making it a bitch Microsoft. Even if I am fully compliant you better bet your ass the BSA is going to have to wade through lawyers to get into my shop... just to make it painfull for them too.

Re:Microsoft

[Karl Cocknozzle]

I have one storebought copy of Office 2001 (Mac) and bought my 20 liscenses through this fucked up Microsoft liscensing web page. They didn't send me serial numbers, just a contract, so all 21 copies of Office here have the same serial number even though they are all legaly liscensed.

According to a guy I spoke with at the Apple store yesterday, Office v.X DOES sniff out other installations using the same serial # if you're connected to the network. Since I only own one Mac I can't really test this myself....

I am interested in how it works though: Does it do a broadcast or something on the network? Anybody have any knowledge of how/if this works?

Point and Counterpoint

[virg_mattes]

Your point is well taken, but that's not where they went wrong. The problem is that the BSA doesn't restrict itself to companies where they have any evidence that piracy is going on, and they're very hardline on cases where the possibility of violation exists even if there's no proof of violation (in a case mentioned above, a user had a copy of WordPerfect installed on a network server, and the BSA enforcement team simply assumed that they were using it illegally because they could not prove that they weren't (in this case, nobody remembered it was there, so they weren't violating the EULA for the product, but they had no way to prove that nobody was using it)). Both of these practices fly in the face of "innocent until proven guilty" and when they use the threat of legal action to force companies to spend a lot of money to prove that they're not doing anything wrong, they step over the ethical line. I agree that they should have the right to enforce their license rights, but their method is overreaching and wrong.

Virg

Re:Point and Counterpoint

[opkool]

Actually, with a Novell Fileserver it is possible and easy to prove who, when and how many times someone accessed a file in the server.

This is true since Novell 3.x as far as I remember. Now, with NDS is much easier.

So I guess that bad Novell admins costed that company a little fortune by means of not knowing the possibilities of their system.

Re:Point and Counterpoint

[opkool]

The original post, so it says: They use Netware, and Netware is a product from Novel Inc.:

They also arrange penalties for any discovered "violations". Some of these can quickly get out of hand. For example, in my case, a copy of WordPerfect 5.1 (yes, in 1997!) was lying around on a Netware server which 350 people had access to.

An about NDS, I just said that nowadays, with NDS, it would be easier to get this kind of data. I say nothing of the original poster using NDS.

Please, read twice before posting. Thank you.

Re:Point and Counterpoint

[opkool]

Excuse me if you were mistaken.

But I replied to a post "A" and I included information from a previous post "B". This previous post "B" happened to be the origin of the data and comment in post "A".

And I replied to "A" and commenting information from post "B".

This post "B" is what I considere the "original post", because it is the first posts that tells the whole story.

Post B is this one

Post "A" is this one

Is it complicated? Sure. But this is Slashdot.

Have a good one.

extortion and revenge

[geoff lane]

a/ 700,000 cards is NOT a targetted mailing. It's plain spam and you have to wonder if they have a licensed mailing list or just copied the stuff out of a trade directory (most have copyright clauses preventing such use these days) :-)

b/ any company receiving such a card should get the company lawyer to write back pointing out the legal consequences of libel.

c/ I wonder if Microsoft or Adobe could satisfy the BSA audit?

100% Wrong

[Srin Tuar]

No matter how you hype it, it's just not legal for a company to own (or sometimes not) a single copy of Adobe Photoshop or Microsoft Office and run it on 10's or 100's of computers. Somebody has to enforce the law or it breaks down. Incedentally, it's the same copyright law that keeps your GPL software free that they are protecting!

Absolutely wrong. You can download a sigle copy of a GPL program, modify the source, and install it an as many computers as you like. You dont have to give your changes to anyone eles either.

ONLY if you want to distribute the modified code outside of your company, then you have to attach the source & license.

The GPL does not cover USE of the software- only redistribution. You can use the software however you like.

Re:100% Wrong

[GoRK]

I didn't say anything about what the GPL license allows/disallows regarding distribution, use, or anything else. I only said essentially that copyright law protects the freedoms and limitations the GPL grants -- indeed the existence of the GPL itself.

It's still not legal to run office on 100 machines when it violates MS's license, as it is illegal to modify the source for GIMP so that it runs on OS/X and distribute only the compiled binaries when it violates the GPL.

Ends justify the means?

[imadork]

I am 100% behind the concept that business should pay what the vendor wants for the software they use, and should be held responsible if they don't. But I find the BSA's methods to be less than agreeable.

Why?

• Because it puts the entire burden of proof on your business to prove that you comply.
• Because many licensing agreements are overly restrictive and you may not realize you're violating it. (Did you know that Apple's "Free" OS X 10.1 upgrade can only be run on a single computer at a time, according to their boilerplae license? Will the BSA bust you for only getting one copy, even though Apple gave it away for free in CompUSA, and all of your OS X installations are legal?)
• Because there is a difference between willful piracy (using 1 license of Office for 100's of workstations) and accidental "piracy" (losing track of the fact that an old, obsolete application is still on your server, and losing the licensing documents from 1992 in your last move).

In short, BSA tactics turn member companies' customers into adversaries, and scare said customers into giving them money rather than go through the time and trouble to "prove" (at the customers' own time and expense!!!) they own all their software. It sure sounds like extortion to me! In any case, I dare someone to argue that threatening to sue ALL your customers and cause them added expenses, even if they did nothing wrong, is a good way to develop a customer relationship!

Ever hear of Probable Cause?

[Wntrmute]

OK, let's say you steal $50,000 from the bank, and the police come to your house and say "Give us the $50,000 or we'll throw you in jail." Is that extortion? Hardly.


Actually, if the police bust down my door without a warrent, or with an illegally obtained one, it *is* illegal.

Let's say $50,000 has been stolen by someone in the city of, say, Orlando. The police most certainly cannot knock down doors of every house in Orlando without a warrant. If they do, the evidence is illegally obtained, and inadmissable in a court of law.

If they BSA were to show up at my door, I can first tell them to piss off, as they are a private organization with no law enforcement powers. Next they come back with a warrant, and get in, and find an illegally copy of FooBar 1.0. If our legal system actually worked, I could challenge the legality of the warrant on Probable Cause grounds, arguing that they had no reason to believe that I had illegal copies, thus making the search illegal, and the evidence inadmissable. (Refusing entry to your private space to someone without a warrant is not grounds for Probabale Cause either).

Unfortunately, I believe in some civil cases (which copyright infingment is) illegally obtained evidence can be admitted. So, they'd be able to sue me based on evidence concidered illegal in a criminal court.

Extortion? Maybe not. Flying in the face of at least the spirit of due process and the Constitution? Most definitly.

Re:Ever hear of Probable Cause?

[dhogaza]

The legal problem is that you've agreed to allow an audit by accepting the terms of the license.

Well, that's only one problem. Probable cause relates to criminal cases, not civil contractual disputes. You sign a contract with me, and I can sue you for non-compliance whenever I want (though a competent judge should throw out any obviously frivolous suits of this nature).

Of course, there's the whole EULA issue, but it's hard for a large organization that employes or retains legal beagles, to argue that they're unaware of the implications of such licenses.

Also, copyright infringement has nothing to do with this. License violations are the issue.

This may fly in the spirit of fair business dealings, but not "due process and the Constitution".

The software makers have the right...

[Boomer2]

...to ensure their copyright is not violated. A previous business I worked for was raided; and I support the folks who had it raided. If you use commercial software, pay for it. How much more simple can it get?!

Glad to see the statement in an earlier posting that the US Marshals require a court order before they'll act. Some people here and elsewhere like to be childish and think that the Marshals are just hired thugs for M$. Not true. The Marshals are doing the job of enforcing laws that have been on the books for decades and people understand at least the basic idea of those laws.

Anyone who pirate software is committing a crime; and they should be ready to pay the consequences. It's more likely that a business will be caught than an individual or household. That doesn't make piracy any less wrong.

Freedom by Software

[virg_mattes]

You can indeed "go compliant" by switching. At the time they request the audit by mass mailing, there's no specific lawsuit involved. If you respond to the warning by dumping all of the licensed software in favor of free software, when they come calling for real, you can truthfully say, "I'm running only free software, so you have no license violations to pursue." At that point, they'd have to prove (in a legal sense) that you'd illegally used their stuff in the past to charge you, and the "anonymous tip" isn't sufficient for that point.

Virg

Re:Licensing

[Glytch]

I often wondered, would you need a TV license if your TV was just a PC tuner card?

Wow!

[Amazing Quantum Man]

[sorry about that... stupid machine hit enter by accident]

The Boy Scouts are really getting agressive, aren't they! I promise I'll finish that merit badge, it's only been 25 years!

Offtopic

[Glytch]

What do you people have against Clinton? Sure, he was a bought-off slimeball, but no worse than any other politician. Personally, I admire a president who not only got a blowjob, but got it in the oval office. That's more than a lot of other old decrepit presidents ever got.

Re:passive resistance

[Amazing Quantum Man]

You forgot that you should use disk encryption software, so that when they try to break the disk crypto, they're in violation of the anti-circumvention clause. Surely, you've written something (a letter even), and stored on your encrypted filesystem, haven't you?

Software licensing is such a racket.

[Deagol]

I once worked for a company that was a Miscrosoft Solutions Provider (or something like that). In addition to being required to have at least 2 Microsoft Certified Professionals (we had 4 MCSEs in-house), we got to pay a hefty fine^H^H^Hee for the privilege of using the MSP logo on our cards and plaque in the office.

We also got to buy some sort of really good licensing deal. For like $1000, we got 10 copies of damned near everything: WinNT, Office, SQL, Exchange, etc. I guess the idea was to let us play with the software, so we could peddle it more effectively.

Well, we eventually merged with another company. They were truly anal about software licensing, so we tried to do the proper self-audit.

We couldn't sort out the exact meaning of the 10-pack deal I mentioned earlier, so we called the local Microsoft branch and asked if the license we had purchased accounted for X many copies we were using.

Nobody at M$ could give us a straight answer about the licensing. We finally gave up after a few weeks of emails and calls. We figured that if were really were auditted, we'd throw the paper trail of attempted compliance back at them.

Redhat installer

[kevinank]

Has anyone else noticed that the latest Redhat releases all come with the standard installer 'You must agree to this license to install this software' dialogue? The funny thing is that the license it displays is the GPL, which in turn says 'You don't have to agree to this license', but if you click 'Decline' the installer refuses to install.

So I guess that even Redhat hasn't read their own EULA very closely.

Re:GASP options

[SuiteSisterMary]

I love how you need to register for the software; how much do you want to bet that it puts you on the 'Po$$ible Licen$e I$$ues, call immediately!' list?

Re:This is precisely what I have been talking abou

[SuiteSisterMary]

"Perhaps, if you were to IDENTIFY some Communists for us, we would therefore know that YOU YOURSELF are not a Communist..."
"Of course, Senator McCarthy...."

It does not have to a be a business

[2Bits]

I doesn't have to be a real business operation. I had a web site before, but it has expired for more than a year now as I don't want to continue it anymore. The web site got nothing to do with business. And the only sytem I'm using is Linux. And I also got one of these stupid cards for the "business" that does not even exist.

Parse Error

[virg_mattes]

The original comment:

> > "The BSA member does have a legitimate need to get a return on investment"

Your comment:

> there is NO such thing as a right on ROI.


The original poster claimed not "right to ROI", just a legitimate need for it. His statement is correct.

Virg

Stab at an analogy.

[mindstrm]

I like this to the following.

Let's say someone robs a jewelry store.
So now, the jewelry store sends letters to everyone in town saying hey have to open up their house and PROVE they don't have the goods, or they will show up with federal marshals and toss your house.

That's what the BSA is doing. That's how it works. Microsoft does it too. They send you a letter requesting that you voluntarily AUDIT your company to make sure you comply with all their licenses. They offer to send someone to 'assist' if you like. They also remind you of the dire consequences if you refuse.

The one thing, though, is.. how do you think they find out about you? They find out when you actually call to get licensing information, or to buy software.
In fact, I would NOT be surprised if, when you buy it through a VAR, the VAR submits all your information to Microsoft.

So say you buy 50 licenses of Win2k. A year later, your web page says you've grown in size, are shipping more product, whatever. Microsoft checks it's database.. hmm.. you didn't buy more licenses form them. What are the odds that you have 'stolen' their software?

This is one place where Free Software really has an advantage: You don't have to spend the same amount of resources auditing your licensing all the time.

On warrants.

[mindstrm]

Actually... and I have no idea whether this is the same in the US or not...
But technically, if a private citizen (not a cop, I mean) showed up with a warrant, you'd have to let him exercise it, just as if he were a cop.

I know of one person anyway (This was in Calgary, Alberta, Canada) who, years ago when his credit card was being used fraudulently to look at porn, and he tracked it back to a local ISP... he went to the cops. The cops said "We don't really have any idea how to proceed.. sorry, nothing we can do (this was years ago)"

So.. he went to the courthouse, went to a Justice of the Peace, and filed for a search warrant. The Justice said "I don't think I can do that sir (it had never come up before)". The guy cited relevant sections of the law, and the judge politely asked for some time to review it.
The next day, he had a search warrant, to search the logs of the ISP in question to find out who the user was.
Now.. not wanting to piss anyone off, like the cops, he then took the warrant to THEM, and again requested their assistance, as he already had a warrant. They sent a couple guys with him, no problem.

What you say about proof is absolutely what the problem is. It's like the police sending letters to everyone saying "Please prove there is nothing illegal going on in your house", and then getting warrants for everyone who doesn't respond properly.

Re:On warrants.

[mindstrm]

I have the feeling it's probably the same up here. After all, the guy did take the warrant to the cops.

Maybe his angle was that he could certainly get the warrant, but just couldn't execute it.

As for citizen's arrest.. same up here. It's on the books (The police really have no more power to arrest someone than the common citizen, technically). You just don't have the training to stand up in court and defend your actions.

Two Things, and the Real Point

[virg_mattes]

There are two things to consider. First, file access logs don't get run by default. You need to turn them on. Second, nobody remembered that the program was there, so unless the FA logger was set to promiscuous (a BIG drain on disk space and processor time) it wouldn't have been included in the sweep.

All this, however, goes around the point. If the BSA didn't have a way to prove that he was misusing the copy of WordPerfect, why did he have to pony up the fines for it? He was punished for not being able to prove that he didn't commit any crime.

Again, it's the force majeure of a big group of software companies winning out over the legal tenet of "innocent until proven guilty" and that's where the real crime resides.

Virg

Re:Two Things, and the Real Point

[opkool]

Well, I turn it on by default, storing log files on cheap backup tape. So I know who messed up with the system. This saved my butt more than once.

Also, I completely agree with you about BSA being bullish. They have o prove that you committed a crime. Heck, I own a car that can go over 35 MPH and cops do not stop me on every corner because "I can go faster than 35, so I am guilty of going over 35".

I thought that, in the USA, you were innocent until proven guilty.

But, nevertheless, I support the idea of BSA giving a run for its money to unlawful companies. And to individuals, using too much "borrowed software".

If they were using legal (payed for software), where would be Microsoft's desktop dominance?

So it is a case of mixed feelings: Go for them, but I cannot support someone presusming someone else guilty until proven the contrary.

Anyway. the best option is use OpenSource and be merry.

Wow. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[mindstrm]

Copy protection methods cost MONEY to develop. My god.. do you know how much a dongle would drive up the manufacturing cost of each copy of a piece of software? A CD costs a penny to produce. The box, a few more pennies. A dongle? Get real.

And any method they come up with will be broken in a short period of time anyway.. so it's a waste of effort.

You missed it.

[mindstrm]

These companies are NOT running pirated software. They sent out 700,000 of these letters. They did not send them to 'suspsects'. They sent them to anyone who has a computer.

Legal question

[Animats]

There's a significant legal question here. Why does the user have to prove that they purchased the software? In ordinary property law, ownership is established by possession. If you have something, and nobody can show they have a better right of ownership than you, it's yours. (Some things, like real estate and automobiles, are registered with governments, and have different rules, but that's irrelevant here.)

Illegal use can be established by other means, like finding multiple copies with the same serial number, or copies on non-original media. But it's up to the claimant to prove illegal use, not the other way round.

Re:Next, The RIAA will come to check for mp3's

[mindstrm]

Could be.. I mean, if you WERE distributing mp3's through napster without a contract from the recording company, you would be doing something illegal, right?

Bozeman? As in Montana??!

[Reziac]

Like, why?? Bozeman MT, college town, population maybe 50,000 by now, where I lived for 12 years... I'm having trouble envisioning a business there with enough software, pirated or otherwise, to be worth the BSA's trouble. Not to mention the cheery greeting they may well get from that dynamic duo, Smith and Wesson.

Story you're referring to?

[crisco]

I remember this one, a chilling tale of a misguided audit doing severe damage to a corporation. It is an AC post, and requests for clues went unanswered (understandable where lawsuits are involved) but it rings true. Anyone have the wherewithal to track this down and verify?

They use mailing lists

[llywrch]

> So how exactly does this work? If you're a business in that area, do they send you a "card", and demand you reply with
> a statement saying that you're 100% compliant or they'll sue the pants off of you?

Last summer, I got one of these threatening letters to my home address. Shortly afterwards, I also got a letter from a certain company in Redmond, urging me to take advantage of the BSA softare truce. They suggest that I sign up for a ``free consultation" from a company called Zones, who will sell me MS software at 20% off.

The last piece of MS software I ever bought was a copy of DOS 6.0. (I may have registered it -- I don't have the box at hand.) I once subscribed to PC Magazine, but let the subscription run out in either 1994 or 95. Other than that, I have NO idea how they got my name, or thought I was running a business out of my house.

I ignored the mail. (I wanted to send a copy of the GNU & BSD licenses to them, since this covers almost all of the software I used, but my wife wouldn't let me.) I'm not sure if they caught any pirates in my area -- at least there's no report on their website.

Geoff

I just wonder....

[Restil]

Set up a company completely with open source software, and find window managers that perfectly emulate windows, or at least close enough that your average "my cupholder is broken" employee won't recognize the difference. Then brag excessively internally that you never pay for ANY software, which is true. Have some of these rants taped, and have one of your employees inform the BSA about your possible copyright violations.

This "clueless" employee assumes he's running Windows, so thats what he tells the BSA. That with taped evidence might be enough to justify a warranted search.

Have a few computers that are bombs that nobody uses. Any use of those computers will automatically script the opening of a dos window and format of the hard disk. Videotape those screens and the BSA "agent" at the computer while its happening. It will very much appear that these people are intentionally destroying company property without cause. And they can whine and deny actually doing it, but you've got them redhanded on videotape doing so.

Take them to court. Claim excessive damagers. I mean... how would they know what was on those systems.. they formatted the drives. Sure, it might have been foolish to store the only copy of the source to a multimillion dollar project on that computer, but its not YOUR fault that the BSA guy came in and destroyed your property without just cause, now is it? And the best part is, the search was completely unjustified since you own no proprietary software AT ALL.

Is this right? Not at all. And I would never actually endorse doing it. But someone vindictive enough might. And the BSA better realize this. I remember a news story a couple years ago, when bounty hunters broke into someone's house looking for a bond jumper, wearing skimasks and with no warrant. They bound up some of the residents and ended up killing two others who tried to fight back.

Turns out, they had the wrong house. And none of the people who lived there had warrants out for them. Law enforement and other related activies are not organizations you're allowed to make mistakes in. The cost of those mistakes means someone losing their freedom, or someone losing their life.

The BSA better realize that they could be placed into a similar situation by someone who doesn't care much for their tactics. Granted, if that company actually broke the law while staging this, the BSA would have some recourse, but the fact of the matter is, they act as a law enforcement agency, even though they aren't one. They need to realize that there are checks and balances for a reason. If you're going to break in somewhere and start scouring for something illegal, you better be damn well sure that there's a 100% chance you're going to find something that you're looking for. Otherwise you not only make yourself look like a fool, you make the software companies that you're "representing" look like fools for ever endorsing you in the first place.

And some lucky company will get a lot of free unencombered VC capital on your behalf.

-Restil

you will notice what the BSA doesnt do..

[Lumpy]

Suprisingly they dont dare try this with companies like AT&T, IBM, or other Giants. why? because these companies have the power to stomp them out of existance. Try and enter any of the above companies with your "storm troopers" without a court order. and you had better find something as they will be sued for lost time,expenses,lost work and profits and probably sued for huge damages in a very messy public affair.

Please BSA, try to strong arm a really big company.

the battlestar gallactica version was better

[hawk]

I'm notsure I should admit I read it, but it was before the median slashdot user was born . . .

The Cylons are aliens rather than robots in the novels. They had a program or some such to simulate Starbuck so that they could question it (GIGO suggests that they won't generate new infomration,but that's a side issue . . .

"How many ships do you have?"
"As many as the grains of sand between your toes."
"Cylons don't have toes."
"Than maybe we don't have any ships."

:)

hawk

as did

[hawk]

the soviet's (youth brigade?), who I suspect shared the plan with red china and cuba.

yes, I *did* call that illegitimate government "red china"

hawk

Prove It.

[ewhac]

There has never been a documented case of a software company going under due to unsanctioned copying of its products. Ever.

If true, yours would be the first-ever such incident. Would you care to provide more details and hard evidence -- product names, release dates, supported platforms -- rather than friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend hearsay?

Schwab

Welcome to Asset Forfeiture

[Lysander Luddite]

OT I know, but that is EXACTLY what happens in asset forfeiture for illegal drugs charges. Heck, you have to sue the State to get them back, but most people don't becuase they can't afford the legal expenses. So such practices are entirely legal, just not likely in this case.

Probably Won't Work

[ewhac]

A local radio station, 102.1 FM KDFC, has been running the scare-tactic ads for a while now. In response, I sent the below letter to their public affairs editor. I have yet to receive any reply from them.

From this, I conclude "The Media" isn't interested in presenting contrasting points of view. You might be able to get them to run an ad, but only if you pay major bucks for it (which none of us have). And there's no guarantee that a quiet phone call from the BSA won't get your ad pulled.

Schwab

-- Letter appears below --

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 06:02:59 -0800
To: nkrautter@kdfc.com
Subject: BSA Ads

Your station is currently broadcasting an ad from the Business Software Alliance (BSA) intended to intimidate local businesses with the threat of a, "BSA investigation."

It's probably worth mentioning that the BSA is not a law enforcement agency or any other arm of the government. They are a privately held political advocacy committee funded principally by Microsoft. As such, they have no power to launch an "investigation" or compel cooperation with such activity without actually filing a lawsuit.

As a software professional of over 20 years experience, I take umbrage at the BSA's misleading and intimidating tactics, and feel it merits a response. If it is within the scope of your station's editorial policy, I wonder if you might be willing to consider broadcasting a rebuttal to the BSA's ad?

Thank you very much for your time.

Schwab

Logic Error

[virg_mattes]

Having a legitimate need for something does not imply or enforce a right to it. There are many examples of things that I could need to which I have no right, under certain circumstances, but to say that not having rights to something invalidates the need for it is backwards logic. To say this is to argue that because a slave has no "right" to freedom, his need for freedom is invalid. A company can need to make a profit and have no "right" to do so, in which case it dies.

Virg

Re:money money money

[GoRK]

So propose an alternative way to fix the piracy problem. If you are pirating software, then you should be scared when you get one of these letters. Their aim is not to get companies or people to buy "extra" licenses, but to buy the licenses they should have bought in the first place.

You seem to imply that there are businesses that are totally legal on all of their software that recieve one of these letters, freak out, and buy 10 licenses for Windows XP and Office XP they don't need.

Re:Now hold on a minute... - O.T.

[ryanvm]

People will always find some excuse for piracy, but until someone is pirating YOUR software, i really dont think you have any right to excuse yourself. It's theft of intellectual property. Don't do it

If you write software and ask that people not use it without paying you - that's fine, it's your prerogative. But to go around spouting that it's theft or piracy is irresponsible. A breach of copyright, sure, but theft it ain't.

The definition of theft and piracy hinge on the notion that something you had has been taken away. So unless you don't have your software anymore - it wasn't stolen.

Childish Machismo (or Judo?)

[crucini]

The BSA/SPA raids are deeply depressing. Unfortunately, the common response on slashdot is even more depressing. Most of the responses are out of the imagination of a 10-year-old:

1. "I'd shoot them if they came in my door!" They come with US Marshals. If you manage to gun them down, more and more law enforcement will pile on and you will eventually go out in a blaze of glory ala Waco. Nobody will remember you as a hero for defying the BSA/SPA - you will be remembered as the jerk who killed many law officers.
   
2. "If they do FOO or BAR it's illegal and I'll sue/prosecute them!" These organizations are run by lawyers. They know the relevant law far, far better than you do. They're not doing anything illegal. However all the half-baked schemes proposed for thwarting their investigation probably contain illegal actions.
   
3. "They can't install their audit software on my computers without my permission!" Yes they can. It is part of executing a judicially authorized search.
   
4. "I'll obstruct the search through a clever hack!" This is probably a bad idea from a legal standpoint. If your clever hack is penetrated, which it probably will be, you have substantially strengthened their case if it ever goes to trial. And you are probably liable for the hours you wasted.
   

I understand that these comments are a natural reaction to the fascistic raids being conducted. But the reactions are childish and will do nothing to help combat these adversaries. Everyone should read this Wired story. Notice that almost none of the victims will talk to a reporter, even off the record. That indicates a huge gap between the bravado being displayed on slashdot and the actual emotional state of someone who has been through the process.

So what can we do realistically? The single smartest thing we can do is "judo marketing" - riding the adversaries' momentum to our own advantage. Imagine if we could follow up a BSA/SPA card mailing with a similar mailing explaining how to get your business 100% license-free, and listing qualified consultants in the area. Since the BSA appears to be using commonly available lists of businesses, with no regard for whether they have bought software, we could mass mail to the same lists. If we had a mechanism for Linux consultants to pool marketing monely, we could even buy ads on AM radio (which is what business owners are more likely to listen to.) That would be a truly adult and effective response to this campaign of terror.

GPL enforcement is similar..

[ikekrull]

Let us not forget that these guys are simply trying to protect the rights of the companies they represent.

When you or your company pirates software, you are breaking the terms of the license.

If you take GPL software and distribute it without providing source, i doubt there would be any outcry when the author of the software - or, in fact, an organisation like the FSF, sends cease-and-desist letters to the offending organisation.

I agree that the BSA entering your premises is a questionable practice, but, as we have seen with recent Borland liceses, in many cases you or your emplyer will have agreed to this as part of your licensing contract.

I am constantly stunned at the apathy the senior management of my company express with regard to software licensing.

My Linux desktops and servers are all completely compliant with regard to their respective software licenses, but every Windows desktop/server we run has at least several hundred and at worst several tens of thousands of dollars of unlicensed software on it.

When presented with an estimate of the cost of becoming compliant (over a hundred thousand dollars with our current deployed server apps), they shrug and ask how long we can continue to put off paying.

So, IMHO, these guys get what is coming to them when the BSA knocks on their doors.

It's not like they don't have a choice to use free software, if they feel that paying for it is not really an option.

Forgot the key point

[Veteran]

What is to keep Vito Bentnose from creating the Business Software Compliance Agency and doing exactly the same things that the BSA is doing?

The answer is basically nothing. This is a really sweet scam - send a threatening letter to a company 'audit' them and demand payments. If Vito wants to be 'legit' he can even split his take with software companies.

It would appear that both Vito and the BSA have got nothing going for them but bluff and intimidation; however in the age of the DMCA both Vito and the BSA have got an even stronger bluff. They can claim that by failing to have the proper number of licenses you are breaking a digital encryption method and subject to the draconian 5 year felony conviction + $500,000 fine for the first offense, 10 year + $1,000,000 fine fore each subsequent 'offense' penalties of the DMCA. Look 'fraudulently' having a license number to enter into the software when it asks for one is 'circumventing' a digital encryption method for protecting a copyrighted work.

I doubt that the BSA can file a business method patent on their way of extorting money - so how would a company know that Vito's organization is not authorized to do what it is doing?

Is it now clear to everyone that what the BSA is doing is extortion?

BSA supports DMCA

[Skapare]

The BSA supports the DMCA. This press release explains that. Now you know more about these guys and who really gives them their marching orders.

Re:Occupations I've used on online forms

[ImaLamer]

Damn right!

It's moral to lie because sometimes you don't even have an answer. I don't work... sorry!

But now it seems I may have gotten myself into trouble since microsoft thinks I've got a organization [doing web development] which employs 1000+ people and has 250+ computers.

I guess my mom will get a letter in the mail asking for her to provide copies of 250 WindowsXX licenses.

Re:Licensing

[Glytch]

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the info.

list

[Lord Omlette]

In previous press releases they state that they send out up to 700,000 of these cards simultaneously.

What we need is this list, so we can market opensource software to these businesses, so they never have to worry about funky license shit. Like GPL or BSDstyle? Oh wait. You know what I meant.