W3C Publishes "Current Patent Practices"

jdaly writes "Given the interest Slashdot readers have shown in W3C's Patent Policy, I would like to provide an update and pointer to the most recent document published by W3C on Patent Issues. The W3C has published Current Patent Practice as a W3C Note. Reviewed by the W3C Advisory Board, the Note represents the current state of W3C patent practice as implemented by the Team for W3C Recommendations. "

From the document: This current practice has evolved in order to satisfy the goal held by a number of W3C Members and significant parts of the larger Web community: that W3C Recommendations should be, as far as possible, implementable on a Royalty-Free basis [AC]. The current practice described here seeks to

• establish Royalty-Free implementation as a goal for Recommendations produced by new and re-chartered Working Groups;
• encourage maximum disclosure of patents that might prevent a W3C Recommendation from being implemented on a Royalty-Free basis;
• provide a process for addressing situations in which the goal of Royalty-Free implementation may not be attainable.

It serves as a guide for W3C Activities between now and when the policy developed by the Patent Policy Working Group is finalized. The policy is currently a Working Draft. Comments are welcome on the _publicly_ archived mailing list www-patentpolicy-comment@w3.org.

Comments

First..........

[hanakj]

.......Post

No reason, just because I can.

Here it is

[java_sucks]

I claim this first post for the baby Jesus !!!!

LONG LIVE JESUS !!!!!!

nice.

[Anonymous Coward]

nice.

Re:nice.

[Anonymous Coward]

test. this a test. see?

FP?

[Anonymous Coward]

This should have been an FP. Damn 20 second limitation. :(

theregister....

[MrBandersnatch]

theregister had all of these stories HOURS ago, in fact both the last 2 I read this morning there......less slashdot more slashreg ;)

Re:theregister....

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, they're much more on-the-ball. Perhaps if Slashdot invested a little more time in investigating their own stories people wouldn't be getting so fed up with them

Have you noticed how in bad neighborhoods you always get more grafitti and vandalism? The trollers here seem to be getting more prolific, and it would seem that the analogy holds true

slashdot posts current dead penis bird practices

[neal n bob]

more news at 11

Cop-out time

[Arimus]

Looks like (at first glance) that the W3C have taken a cop-out route... "yes we'll keep things royalty free (but only if we can't find a good reason to make them royalty charged)".

Why can't they take a stance and say that without exception patents registered by the w3c will become public domain property (by filling the patent it prevents any other group trying the same thing without the public interest)

Re:Cop-out time

[jsmyth]

Automatically putting W3C patents in the public domain kinda defeats the purpose.
Most patents are created or applied for in order to make the applicant some money in licensing fees, or as part of a larger effort in leading up to another fee.

The "prior art" clauses would indicate that if one wanted to place an invention in the public domain, one would simply post about it in a public forum, like what Mr Torvalds did many years ago. No-one could patent Linux now, becuase it's in the public domain.

A third possibility is closer to Linus' trademark idea, i.e. he owns the trademark, but will only legally enforce that fact if he disagrees with someone's {ab}use of it. In patent-land, I could do the same with my invention, put it in the public domain and let others use it freely, as long as they conform to some license agreement such as the GPL.

That opens a whole other can of worms, but we're starting to see some convergence here, where licenses to use a technology (software or otherwise) are freely doled out under certain conditions. I'm surprised the FSF hasn't come up with something like this before.

Re:Cop-out time

[Anonymous Coward]

A third possibility is closer to Linus' trademark idea, i.e. he owns the trademark, but will only legally enforce that fact if he disagrees with someone's {ab}use of it

You mean like if some hardware company named themselves "Something Linux", and then conspired with their corrupt investment bankers to pull an IPO scam on uneducated investors? Or was Linus paid for that one.

Re:Cop-out time

[Mark Shewmaker]

"In patent-land, I could do the same with my invention, put it in the public domain and let others use it freely, as long as they conform to some license agreement such as the GPL."

That idea is more or less the sort of thing I want the Open Patent License in progress at openpatents.org to do.

Re:Cop-out time

[Zeinfeld]

Looks like (at first glance) that the W3C have taken a cop-out route... "yes we'll keep things royalty free (but only if we can't find a good reason to make them royalty charged)".

That is not the position at all. You are talking typical Slashweenie nonsense driven by some innane paranoia.

The policy says the exact opposite of your claim. The presumption will be in favor of royalty free.

Why can't they take a stance and say that without exception patents registered by the w3c will become public domain property (by filling the patent it prevents any other group trying the same thing without the public interest)

The policy is not about patents filled by W3C, it is about patents filled by others, some of whom may be members, others who may not.

There are very few W3C members who actually want RAND terms, in fact I can only think of one that has advocated collecting royalties and that is IBM. There are quite a few W3C members who work in areas that are heavily patent encumbered, in many cases due to the negligence of the USPTO there are multiple overlaping patent claims.

What most companies in those encumbered areas do is to file lots of defensive patent collateral for trading purposes. In most cases everyone holding the patents realise that ultimately the probability they are enforceable is quite slim but they can't disarm unless everyone else does. A quite reasonable objective of the W3C patent policy is to encourage negotiation of patent pacts so that a royalty free license is available to anyone who is willing to reciprocate.

Incidentaly, the reason I apply for patents on technology that we intend to make royalty free is to block attempts by others to do so. Whenever I publish a specification some snot comes out of the woodwork and runs off to the USPTO with a perjured patent application claiming it was their idea. Then they try to sell my idea back to me. I am getting so fed up with this that we are actually thinking of bringing a civil perjury suit against the next perpetrator.

The theory of patent law is to encourage use of new ideas. In fact the effect is now the reverse. I spend a lot of time looking at old mailing lists etc. for OLD ideas that might be tweaked to answer a current need.

Re:Cop-out time

[clilley]

Arimus kinda missed the point - its not patents registered by W3C (there aren't any, in fact). Its patents registered by other people. These won't go away by wishing they didn't exist.

Re:Cop-out time

[Anonymous Coward]

That's MR. slashweaneie to you.
And we are driven by hyper-defensive anal contrarian motives, NOT innane paranoia!

sucky sucky

[Fucky the troll]

slurp slurp slurp

What are the key points in terms of licensing?

[Anonymous Coward]

As a slashdotter with a typical Gen-Xer's with a low attention span and laziness when it comes to reading large documents.. I'd like to know is the document pro-license-free or pro-royalty-payments?

Re:What are the key points in terms of licensing?

[ringbarer]

It's pro royalty payments

Re:What are the key points in terms of licensing?

[HiThere]

Given the large number of huge legal documents that one is presented with, a reluctance to read them is simple self-defense.

OTOH, so is a refusal to agree to them without reading them.

Consider, say it takes a lawyer a week to write up some particular document. How long is it going to take you to understand it? But the lawyer is asking hundreds or thousands of people to read and accept this document, and there are hundreds or thousands of lawyers.

This is one of the reasons that I am so in favor of the GPL. It simplifies the licenses that I need to understand.
.

ok

[NiftyNews]

"encourage maximum disclosure of patents that might prevent a W3C Recommendation from being implemented on a Royalty-Free basis"

So basically they're saying "pretty please tell us about your patent that might ruin our scheme so we can have enough time to prepare to defeat your patent."

Sure, that'll work.

Re:ok

[jsmyth]

basically they're saying "pretty please tell us about your patent that might ruin our scheme so we can have enough time to prepare to defeat your patent."

Fortunately the W3C have (up to now) been relatively open and ethical about their products. I say relatively, because certain other protocols, languages etc. have been hidden beneath a wash of legalese and DMCA-isms both recently and in the past.

The fact of this whole patent drive seems to be getting up the nose of /.ers simply because they are advocating patents. This could be a good thing (remember: not all software patents are bad), or it could be a sign of their fall to the dark side. If so, it'd be a pity - they've been a stalwart of the open-standards community for some time now.

Re:ok

[J. Random Software]

not all software patents are bad

That debate continues, but there's an important line here between patented products and patented standards. IMHO recommending communication standards that anyone has a legal right to prevent anyone else from implementing absolutely undermines the W3C's long-term goal of universal access.

page lengthening post!!!

[CmderTaco]

8 5 8 3 4 5 6 4 6 1 6 0 6 3 4 0 1 8 8 5 3 7 2 6 2 9 4 6 9 9 5 9 5 5 6 9 7 0 1 3 4 8 8 8 9 8 6 4 7 2 0 1 3 0 8 5 9 1 9 6 1 1 2 9 2 0 1 7 8 5 8 0 4 4 8 5 3 2 1 1 9 0 2 8 1 4 1 3 9 6 0 2 7 9 3 9 1 8 9 7 5 2 8 9 9 6 2 4 7 9 1 5 2 0 0 8 5 3 4 6 7 0 3 4 9 5 1 3 8 6 7 9 7 6 4 5 3 2 6 4 0 1 8 1 8 9 2 0 3 0 7 9 7 2 5 2 4 4 5 8 5 4 2 4 5 8 5 4 1 0 7 5 2 2 4 6 3 7 4 6 6 6 3 9 2 0 2 6 1 7 9 9 9 8 0 2 6 2 5 2 7 8 2 8 0 3 8 4 1 9 2 4 2 5 2 9 6 2 1 8 0 7 3 1 1 6 7 3 9 0 5 3 4 3 7 3 5 8 5 1 5 5 3 5 1 0 7 5 5 5 9 6 0 8 9 9 8 6 1 8 5 5 5 4 7 3 9 1 5 0 4 2 9 1 4 1 0 4 9 3 1 7 1 3 0 2 9 9 1 6 8 7 1 0 9 8 9 7 4 1 0 1 7 2 8 7 1 0 1 9 9 8 9 6 5 7 9 1 4 5 6 3 5 9 7 8 6 2 6 1 8 4 7 5 6 7 6 9 1 4 0 8 0 5 2 0 7 9 6 9 5 4 7 7 7 7 2 1 0 1 1 4 0 1 8 3 3 1 6 5 0 2 8 3 2 9 6 6 4 0 0 8 5 1 8 3 2 9 5 3 1 0 7 3 4 1 0 9 9 1 3 3 5 6 4 9 7 7 4 3 2 0 0 2 5 1 3 1 6 6 6 5 1 4 0 7 7 5 2 5 6 2 1 2 2 4 6 7 7 2 0 8 8 9 5 2 6 8 5 7 6 9 2 2 2 0 3 3 7 4 5 6 5 8 4 9 9 9 4 1 4 1 8 0 8 7 4 2 1 0 9 1 8 7 4 6 5 1 9 9 9 7 6 2 7 5 5 1 0 9 7 3 8 9 2 5 9 5 7 5 9 0 9 8 8 2 0 9 1 4 5 3 1 5 5 7 5 9 0 6 4 5 4 5 2 0 7 1 8 3 1 4 4 4 0 9 4 2 0 5 3 4 2 2 8 8 0 5 0 5 2 3 7 8 3 2 7 2 6 8 0 1 8 1 7 8 4 9 3 0 1 5 1 5 6 5 8 7 2 6 3 8 5 9 5 8 4 5 4 7 3 1 4 0 5 8 9 6 7 8 9 5 5 4 8 4 0 8 6 1 9 6 6 3 3 2 4 5 7 8 6 3 3 0 4 0 1 0 1 5 1 2 1 6 9 4 5 6 9 1 0 2 0 6 1 7 0 0 2 9 0 3 3 4 9 1 8 2 6 9 6 9 2 0 4 6 2 7 3 5 6 1 6 9 3 8 9 3 1 0 5 2 1 3 8 6 6 4 3 5 8 7 5 3 4 9 5 3 4 7 5 8 6 5 0 3 9 7 2 7 9 0 9 2 1 1 2 4 8 4 4 0 8 7 0 4 0 8 2 9 4 6 1 0 3 2 0 4 7 5 1 6 9 9 1 1 8 9 6 3 8 2 9 7 3 2 1 6 4 3 9 3 1 8 3 5 0 9 1 2 4 4 8 3 4 3 8 8 2 1 2 9 1 3 3 6 3 6 1 5 1 4 5 7 3 4 3 0 2 4 1 8 1 7 4 4 9 2 6 4 1 0 1 6 1 6 4 9 7 0 2 6 4 7 4 9 1 8 2 9 3 5 5 2 7 8 1 5 7 2 2 0 4 7 6 1 1 9 9 5 3 8 4 3 8 1 5 1 2 2 2 8 7 0 1 5 0 9 1 2 3 1 2 6 1 7 7 8 7 0 3 4 2 2 9 4 7 3 4 3 7 0 5 2 8 6 5 6 9 2 5 8 1 8 3 1 0 1 6 3 2 6 3 7 2 5 9 2 5 1 6 4 4 4 2 7 0 2 3 6 4 1 4 0 4 9 1 7 1 3 5 1 0 6 6 4 2 1 6 4 5 3 9 7 1 7 4 7 8 5 3 5 4 8 1 3 8 4 4 3 3 5 6 8 5 6 8 5 2 1 0 4 3 7 0 0 9 1 3 9 4 2 0 4 8 7 6 1 5 9 6 1 5 1 0 8 1 6 7 2 9 9 5 8 1 0 4 4 7 1 1 7 4 3 1 3 4 0 2 2 0 2 6 9 5 2 8 8 2 2 8 3 4 7 0 2 4 1 9 9 2 7 0 7 0 4 3 2 3 0 0 9 8 2 0 9 3 2 2 2 3 2 7 0 6 9 8 9 7 7 0 6 6 4 0 4 9 3 2 1 2 9 1 9 1 6 3 1 9 4 3 5 7 5 3 2 2 7 0 7 3 6 5 5 5 4 3 3 2 9 6 1 1 1 7 5 5 2 4 5 0 0 4 4 9 8 0 0 4 3 8 9 6 5 0 7 0 0 2 9 6 8 9 3 9 8 0 5 3 8 8 1 6 4 5 3 2 9 7 5 9 1 3 2 0 4 2 1 0 5 7 9 2 0 0 6 6 3 1 3 0 1 2 1 7 8 9 7 1 5 8 6 6 4 8 1 9 9 7 8 4 1 0 7 7 1 4 0 9 9 1 4 8 9 2 3 1 4 7 3 9 5 2 4 6 5 2 0 8 8 2 8 0 1 2 9 3 9 9 7 9 9 3 3 4 1 5 9 6 6 0 4 2 7 4 0 6 5 9 6 1 9 3 2 8 8 6 0 4 3 0 6 4 6 8 7 9 4 8 8 4 7 0 8 2 7 1 3 6 8 0 4 1 0 7 0 7 6 3 4 6 0 4 8 4 1 7 0 0 5 7 2 1 9 8 8 3 5 9 4 5 7 5 9 2 9 0 2 5 6 4 9 1 8 8 3 7 9 2 7 9 3 9 0 9 5 7 0 1 7 6 3 2 5 8 6 0 3 9 8 3 1 0 8 5 4 9 1 2 2 5 5 0 5 0 2 4 8 7 0 9 2 7 0 5 4 8 0 7 0 1 9 9 5 5 8 0 7 2 3 9 3 6 8 9 0 7 0 7 1 1 3 0 8 9 7 5 7 9 7 8 9 2 6 2 0 8 2 2 5 5 9 7 5 9 1 8 5 6 3 7 7 9 4 0 1 0 2 1 7 1 3 6 6 9 8 1 9 2 8 3 4 4 9 4 0 3 0 2 7 4 1 3 8 4 8 2 1 4 7 0 8 6 2 7 1 8 5 5 5 8 0 9 4 6 4 1 1 1 1 5 5 8 5 3 7 7 1 0 5 0 1 3 0 5 0 3 0 5 9 4 0 7 3 3 1 7 3 5 1 5 8 1 7 4 6 7 7 9 8 8 0 3 6 8 9 1 2 0 1 8 9 6 8 2 3 9 3 4 8 5 3 6 6 4 0 8 3 5 1 2 5 1 5 0 1 4 5 4 4 1 2 3 6 0 1 4 5 2 0 3 9 2 0 5 2 8 2 8 7 4 1 7 6 2 7 8 7 1 3 7 0 9 2 7 9 6 2 4 4 5 7 1 5 4 4 4 0 8 0 9 8 4 1 7 7 6 4 2 3 7 4 0 7 1 7 6 0 3 4 4 6 3 3 4 7 0 8 4 6 7 4 9 6 4 3 3 4 6 4 1 1 2 2 6 9 8 6 6 9 9 0 6 6 9 7 0 6 9 6 8 5 9 0 4 3 3 0 6 1 7 5 0 1 5 0 5 1 6 6 4 6 4 2 0 0 8 4 4 1 0 9 6 3 8 7 0 7 1 6 8 4 2 4 6 3 4 0 1 0 8 6 7 0 6 4 9 2 3 5 3 4 2 2 1 4 9 1 4 0 5 1 0 9 6 0 5 6 9 5 3 0 8 3 2 4 5 7 5 7 9 5 4 4 5 6 4 4 5 2 3 2 6 1 4 0 3 0 4 3 0 9 4 6 2 4 4 6 1 5 8 2 0 4 3 1 7 4 5 9 1 6 3 2 3 6 2 3 7 2 0 2 3 3 5 5 1 8 1 8 1 2 1 2 0 8 7 7 8 9 8 3 1 2 1 2 4 1 4 3 1 3 8 4 0 0 7 1 2 3 9 9 5 8 4 1 3 7 2 1 6 5 4 2 8 8 3 2 8 8 4 5 1 2 7 0 9 4 3 9 7 6 4 9 2 8 0 6 3 6 5 4 0 3 3 1 7 0 6 1 5 0 1 6 9 7 1 0 9 7 4 6 1 5 3 0 1 5 0 1 4 6 3 6 0 7 8 6 2 8 6 1 4 9 9 9 1 5 9 3 9 2 1 5 8 8 4 2 1 0 5 2 0 2 2 7 5 9 1 1 7 8 0 2 3 8 8 2 0 4 6 1 9 2 7 3 2 3 1 4 2 7 8 4 5 3 8 7 4 2 2 3 6 0 5 3 2 1 9 7 0 2 9 4 7 0 2 5 6 7 2 7 2 8 9 2 3 7 9 7 5 0 3 6 2 9 7 6 0 9 5 2 5 6 4 2 2 8 8 6 6 9 4 2 0 7 0 2 9 1 0 8 9 4 7 7 1 5 2 0 6 7 8 1 0 5 8 6 3 0 6 2 5 6 2 8 6 6 4 0 6 4 9 9 3 8 4 9 6 5 8 6 9 6 7 0 8 7 8 5 0 7 9 7 7 6 4 6 8 9 0 9 8 3 2 1 7 5 6 9 1 7 0 4 8 0 6 4 3 8 0 0 1 3 8 8 6 7 6 7 6 7 2 6 0 7 5 4 1 7 4 1 1 9 6 5 2 1 6 9 0 7 1 1 6 1 4 8 7 6 5 0 8 4 0 7 6 2 5 9 2 7 1 1 8 8 2 8 0 1 8 8 3 2 7 9 4 4 9 5 3 2 7 6 4 2 6 5 9 6 9 5 1 8 7 5 8 2 4 5 1 5 4 9 5 1 5 4 4 4 4 2 8 2 9 6 3 4 2 7 4 8 3 4 6 2 4 8 5 0 9 5 5 5 5 6 1 1 1 6 4 4 2 6 7 4 7 9 4 4 9 8 5 6 3 4 6 4 5 4 2 8 4 8 0 3 3 5 5 0 3 5 4 7 3 2 3 6 7 6 5 4 9 3 5 6 7 8 1 4 0 0 4 6 5 6 5 2 0 1 1 6 5 3 3 6 9 4 1 6 8 7 6 6 3 8 9 7 1 4 9 7 0 1 4 0 9 8 0 5 7 9 2 7 6 9 0 3 2 9 5 1 4 2 7 4 3 8 2 7 1 4 9 5 9 1 7 8 2 5 3 6 6 4 4 1 2 3 4 2 4 2 8 0 3 3 5 0 1 8 6 4 4 8 1 0 6 7 7 9 0 6 4 6 7 2 9 5 9 6 4 5 5 7 5 0 1 8 1 7 7 3 6 5 6 5 4 6 4 3 7 9 2 3 1 9 4 8 3 7 4 8 9 5 8 0 0 8 4 9 2 8 4 9 6 8 5 7 7 6 4 5 3 8 2 6 4 7 7 8 8 5 3 9 8 5 3 7 7 3 0 6 9 7 3 1 1 1 6 3 8 2 8 9 7 2 7 4 2 3 8 6 0 7 3 0 1 8 4 3 0 3 5 9 0 4 6 5 4 1 6 5 7 7 8 8 4 0 5 9 4 0 8 9 2 1 0 2 6 6 0 3 3 6 5 8 5 4 4 5 9 8 2 1 3 4 4 0 9 9 2 0 9 2 9 1 9 4 2 3 3 2 4 3 0 8 7 4 2 0 9 7 0 7 1 3 5 5 8 9 4 7 3 8 5 9 3 8 4 5 4 6 0 9 7 7 5 9 7 6 0 3 2 7 2 8 8 1 1 4 3 0 5 1 7 3 3 7 1 4 1 0 3 9 6 1 1 1 2 5 3 7 0 7 6 9 9 8 1 5 2 3 9 9 5 1 9 6 1 6 5 6 5 9 6 4 1 9 8 1 6 5 0 4 8 5 0 0 4 5 6 5 6 6 9 1 9 3 5 7 7 1 6 9 0 8 0 0 4 6 8 2 0 6 5 0 5 0 8 4 1 6 9 2 3 4 3 1 9 6 3 5 2 3 6 7 9 6 0 8 3 6 4 8 9 7 5 4 1 3 1 6 6 0 8 6 0 1 3 5 2 6 0 2 5 6 6 7 7 0 3 8 9 1 7 6 6 4 7 7 2 9 9 2 1 4 8 8 8 0 2 8 9 3 0 8 3 3 9 4 8 9 7 1 9 4 8 0 5 7 6 8 0 0 6 7 1 6 7 7 5 3 9 5 7 3 2 3 7 6 5 2 5 9 7 7 3 8 0 7 1 2 0 9 3 8 1 7 9 4 0 5 1 3 8 2 8 5 2 7 6 8 6 7 4 9 0 6 0 5 3 1 8 8 5 9 9 7 8 7 1 6 5 0 4 3 9 4 6 7 6 0 8 2 3 5 7 7 3 9 9 9 0 7 9 2 7 9 9 9 7 2 0 9 8 5 3 6 4 6 7 5 1 4 3 1 9 1 9 0 2 5 9 2 2 1 0 2 3 9 1 8 0 8 9 2 5 8 9 5 5 4 3 9 3 8 9 7 5 0 5 7 4 5 9 6 0 9 3 6 0 9 4 5 9 9 4 2 3 1 9 2 3 2 9 6 9 3 6 4 2 8 7 4 6 0 9 6 6 5 3 2 5 1 7 5 5 1 8 6 9 3 2 0 0 7 9 3 6 8 3 4 2 9 1 1 3 0 6 4 1 4 4 7 3 3 0 8 9 0 5 4 9 5 9 2 7 3 7 8 0 5 8 0 6 9 0 4 2 4 1 2 8 3 0 0 1 7 0 0 4 1 0 2 0 7 7 1 6 6 7 0 7 3 2 4 6 4 9 1 1 4 3 3 7 7 5 8 7 2 9 1 0 8 6 8 8 0 7 0 9 2 3 6 5 4 2 1 4 8 1 1 6 0 0 0 1 0 4 9 6 0 3 6 0 8 7 1 0 3 6 1 6 4 0 4 9 6 8 2 2 7 0 1 2 2 2 6 0 8 9 1 5 9 4 6 5 6 8 7 3 8 5 8 0 0 1 2 7 1 0 0 9 7 1 9 7 9 7 4 7 7 6 1 1 2 9 5 6 6 2 6 2 4 1 3 3 3 0 7 4 8 5 8 0 2 7 2 8 4 4 6 3 2 8 8 9 7 7 6 6 5 4 4 6 2 5 9 5 0 1 7 9 9 4 9 4 8 3 9 0 5 4 6 9 7 0 9 8 6 9 0 5 8 8 0 9 2 5 8 8 5 9 1 6 3 5 6 3 1 3 8 1 4 4 6 7 9 5 3 3 8 2 2 5 9 7 0 9 5 0 4 4 5 7 6 3 1 8 1 0 5 1 6 7 0 4 9 9 2 8 6 1 4 6 4 8 5 7 4 2 0 0 9 5 3 0 9 5 2 1 7 4 6 0 0 4 5 3 7 6 3 2 6 8 4 0 9 5 0 0 9 5 8 3 7 1 7 2 9 1 9 3 8 0 9 6 0 0 7 0 5 0 5 2 3 1 9 3 9 9 0 1 3 5 0 9 9 5 0 6 4 6 9 4 6 6 0 1 2 0 8 4 3 2 6 2 2 7 8 4 7 9 0 4 3 7 5 6 0 8 9 7 0 7 5 2 3 6 3 0 4 1 7 5 6 4 9 5 3 2 3 2 7 9 6 3 7 9 4 4 1 2 8 9 7 0 6 7 3 1 5 8 5 0 6 0 6 7 0 6 2 2 3 6 0 9 2 2 4 7 7 1 5 8 3 6 1 2 3 8 9 2 0 7 2 4 4 9 5 4 5 0 9 5 9 6 1 1 5 6 0 8 5 8 6 7 9 2 2 0 6 4 2 1 4 3 2 8 2 2 8 4 9 9 0 7 1 9 1 7 9 7 4 8 8 2 5 2 2 0 5 9 4 3 7 0 2 9 5 0 0 7 5 2 7 8 3 4 9 6 3 9 9 1 4 3 6 3 7 4 6 6 0 8 0 5 5 9 9 9 6 6 8 4 2 6 4 1 6 3 4 6 1 7 2 1 7 1 0 0 3 5 8 3 4 1 2 9 0 1 1 8 5 3 7 1 9 0 6 3 8 0 6 7 6 3 2 2 2 8 9 2 7 5 2 5 5 7 1 4 5 7 3 9 0 7 7 8 0 5 9 7 5 3 5 9 3 0 5 8 5 0 5 8 1 7 4 7 1 1 8 0 1 9 1 7 7 4 8 3 7 2 6 7 6 7 2 0 3 8 6 1 5 5 7 7 8 2 8 1 9 9 3 4 3 9 9 6 4 2 1 6 5 3 5 7 8 9 7 0 0 9 0 8 0 8 6 8 1 2 2 3 7 9 6 7 3 7 3 9 1 6 6 5 4 0 9 2 0 6 0 8 6 4 3 1 8 6 1 0 3 8 8 7 4 8 7 7 3 5 8 0 4 5 3 0 9 3 5 5 9 4 2 2 4 6 9 5 5 5 5 3 6 2 4 6 7 0 7 3 7 6 0 5 1 3 3 1 2 5 7 1 2 1 3 2 7 6 5 3 1 3 6 6 4 6 5 5 3 4 5 5 7 0 3 6 9 7 5 5 5 8 1 3 9 1 2 7 7 5 5 1 2 6 5 6 9 0 4 7 1 6 4 1 7 9 4 8 8 5 1 2 2 2 3 7 5 3 2 7 9 5 6 1 8 0 2 4 4 7 9 7 8 2 2 0 8 5 8 6 4 2 0 1 6 9 7 4 0 2 1 9 3 7 1 9 4 2 8 9 2 8 4 8 3 8 9 2 4 9 9 2 6 6 3 1 8 2 9 1 2 6 0 3 4 3 7 7 1 9 3 0 5 4 5 6 3 3 8 6 8 3 3 1 1 2 0 1 3 0 5 0 7 0 0 9 4 5 9 1 4 7 7 5 7 8 6 3 5 1 6 1 2 8 6 8 7 8 1 1 3 7 9 7 3 1 0 5 5 4 1 4 2 2 1 3 0 1 4 5 8 9 6 5 9 6 3 5 2 0 7 9 0 3 6 4 0 6 2 0 1 2 0 0 3 2 5 5 7 3 3 4 0 5 7 8 2 9 8 8 4 4 9 4 8 1 3 7 4 2 4 3 5 9 1 3 5 2 8 9 1 8 9 6 8 4 9 9 4 7 8 0 0 7 5 5 8 1 4 8 3 4 9 4 8 9 9 8 4 0 3 3 4 6 7 3 0 4 4 7 8 4 8 6 8 6 8 3 5 5 6 3 5 0 6 1 5 2 0 8 1 1 8 8 1 0 2 1 4 0 0 1 6 9 3 9 6 7 6 4 1 5 2 5 8 6 4 4 8 0 8 8 1 3 5 1 2 9 1 3 8 0 9 0 1 5 8 4 3 6 0 9 9 3 8 8 9 9 6 2 9 5 9 1 3 3 2 3 1 7 7 3 9 0 1 4 7 4 8 4 5 1 2 7 1 9 1 6 7 4 0 3 2 8 8 2 4 5 2 2 2 5 7 6 5 6 5 0 5 6 0 4 0 8 0 7 1 6 4 4 9 0 8 7 9 0 1 4 4 8 4 7 6 4 5 5 5 5 4 9 9 3 8 8 7 4 5 7 0 5 4 6 3 2 9 3 3 3 3 3 8 7 8 7 7 6 7 5 6 4 6 9 2 8 7 9 4 4 8 7 3 7 5 5 7 6 5 9 7 9 9 1 5 0 5 2 7 2 9 9 5 8 2 9 5 1 4 3 7 6 9 6 1 5 3 5 9 1 4 6 4 0 4 3 4 3 4 0 9 4 5 2 1 6 2 9 3 5 2 2 5 6 8 4 8 0 4 2 6 1 8 1 6 6 5 3 1 2 8 1 7 4 1 8 1 3 7 7 8 9 9 1 5 0 5 8 6 2 2 8 7 3 6 5 7 0 5 4 4 3 4 3 2 3 3 0 4 6 7 3 3 8 7 4 6 6 1 8 9 5 3 8 8 5 0 5 9 3 1 2 2 5 5 6 7 2 5 4 7 1 2 6 0 1 4 5 5 0 7 3 9 9 2 5 9 3 9 2 5 7 8 0 2 2 0 9 7 4 3 2 7 5 3 4 3 0 5 9 1 8 1 3 8 6 5 5 6 3 4 4 7 2 1 3 2 2 0 0 2 9 2 9 4 4 0 7 4 7 4 8 0 6 6 6 0 8 7 0 8 1 6 1 0 1 5 3 0 2 4 9 6 0 7 9 3 6 3 4 6 4 8 8 1 3 1 1 8 6 3 6 3 5 3 0 4 6 6 6 3 7 4 5 3 8 5 6 4 6 2 4 1 1 0 2 1 3 5 8 3 1 8 5 7 1 7 3 4 7 0 5 0 4 9 7 4 4 9 4 4 2 8 6 4 2 8 5 8 4 1 5 0 6 8 3 0 5 8 6 2 7 0 5 8 0 0 4 2 0 6 8 1 9 2 9 5 6 5 0 1 2 8 1 1 1 8 3 8 5 7 0 1 7 3 9 5 2 7 5 1 7 1 0 3 5 3 2 9 6 8 1 7 4 6 7 9 9 4 0 0 6 3 4 3 8 4 1 8 6 1 9 3 8 9 6 7 6 2 4 8 4 1 4 3 7 5 0 6 1 0 6 3 5 7 7 2 2 9 7 7 8 1 6 1 4 5 0 1 8 8 4 5 0 1 1 8 6 7 9 5 8 2 8 6 9 9 7 0 1 2 9 8 6 9 3 7 6 4 5 4 8 4 1 3 7 1 6 9 8 0 5 0 2 6 7 6 5 0 4 1 6 9 1 9 5 4 1 6 5 3 5 3 3 8 5 4 6 8 4 5 1 6 5 2 5 6 9 0 8 0 7 6 9 5 9 8 2 7 9 8 4 6 5 5 8 1 4 2 8 7 0 2 0 6 9 5 8 8 8 7 5 9 5 9 1 6 5 3 5 7 4 8 4 9 8 9 2 3 8 8 5 4 6 9 2 8 6 2 3 8 8 5 4 7 6 2 4 7 4 2 8 6 8 7 7 7 0 3 0 5 5 7 9 2 7 4 4 4 5 5 1 0 2 1 0 5 1 9 9 2 1 2 0 4 8 0 4 5 3 3 9 7 5 0 2 9 7 4 2 3 6 8 4 0 5 3 1 4 8 2 9 9 8 2 6 0 3 8 6 8 2 9 5 9 6 1 4 9 0 8 3 7 6 2 4 3 0 0 2 2 6 4 4 1 0 9 3 6 3 5 5 2 0 7 5 2 8 2 7 7 0 2 3 5 6 2 1 5 3 7 0 2 5 8 6 4 2 0 8 2 7 2 4 3 3 7 5 6 0 7 4 9 2 6 9 8 4 9 8 1 7 5 2 3 2 6 7 3 7 5 7 7 4 4 2 5 4 4 3 1 1 7 4 0 8 6 7 6 9 6 6 5 6 0 4 5 8 2 8 5 9 0 7 2 2 3 3 4 7 8 4 8 0 6 1 5 5 0 5 9 0 7 7 5 3 0 4 8 2 8 1 3 3 3 4 9 2 1 7 5 6 6 6 6 5 7 6 1 4 7 8 8 8 3 2 4 4 3 7 4 2 7 7 4 2 3 5 5 1 2 5 3 5 6 4 7 7 3 9 1 1 4 4 3 9 9 3 8 3 7 9 2 7 2 8 2 0 7 7 3 0 8 1 4 8 6 6 0 3 5 3 1 0 9 8 4 5 6 1 2 2 9 9 3 7 6 6 3 2 2 5 3 7 3 5 3 0 3 7 6 4 8 0 7 4 0 7 2 3 8 8 2 7 8 2 6 1 1 2 3 2 7 7 4 1 8 8 6 4 6 5 5 8 4 0 4 7 4 9 6 2 8 5 4 1 1 4 3 8 0 7 6 3 0 9 7 1 7 3 7 4 1 6 7 4 5 6 8 5 9 8 8 3 7 5 1 9 6 3 4 6 6 4 8 0 8 8 3 6 2 0 2 5 8 7 3 2 5 9 2 0 4 3 8 3 9 8 0 5 1 5 8 5 3 3 5 7 9 0 2 6 7 2 7 1 3 4 3 0 6 1 4 7 6 9 5 2 8 7 7 1 4 6 6 4 2 7 1 8 1 2 3 9 4 0 6 5 5 4 8 7 1 2 8 0 2 4 1 9 4 2 5 4 2 3 9 2 6 7 2 7 1 1 8 5 6 5 5 2 2 2 7 3 3 5 0 3 1 3 5 3 2 5 1 6 4 3 7 8 9 4 3 7 8 2 6 3 6 0 0 6 1 7 1 7 5 2 4 0 1 3 8 4 5 9 0 2 7 1 0 2 4 0 9 4 0 3 9 1 7 5 4 0 9 4 0 7 0 3 6 5 8 1 0 9 4 4 7 6 8 6 8 1 2 6 6 1 3 0 5 8 1 2 5 0 6 0 5 3 0 0 2 2 2 4 1 9 3 1 8 2 7 3 3 6 7 5 0 2 7 9 7 5 1 3 7 8 8 2 6 4 8 6 7 6 0 7 3 2 5 4 7 4 0 8 3 5 1 8 4 1 8 8 3 9 0 0 6 0 4 5 3 8 7 0 6 0 9 8 4 7 2 2 1 6 5 9 9 7 8 5 6 3 5 3 4 0 1 3 6 8 1 8 7 6 0 6 4 8 8 3 5 4 8 8 4 2 0 2 3 2 0 0 9 1 5 0 1 7 7 5 3 8 7 5 7 5 9 5 6 4 4 8 8 1 5 4 2 6 4 3 3 8 0 3 0 9 6 5 4 9 0 7 3 2 0 4 5 5 8 8 9 3 5 1 1 8 5 0 0 3 3 0 1 5 1 6 4 2 7 7 3 5 4 0 1 6 7 2 0 6 0 6 7 8 9 7 5 3 2 8 4 5 6 8 6 1 6 0 5 4 4 0 8 5 0 7 1 4 7 5 3 5 6 2 6 4 4 4 1 6 9 1 8 8 1 4 9 6 7 7 0 8 6 2 0 6 3 8 0 9 8 9 4 3 0 6 1 5 8 7 0 6 8 9 8 6 4 5 0 9 8 0 4 9 0 8 9 9 4 6 3 5 7 1 3 8 5 1 7 4 7 4 0 1 3 4 9 2 5 7 0 8 0 8 1 0 5 7 6 2 7 1 5 6 1 7 1 0 4 8 0 7 1 1 3 2 5 7 8 0 1 7 9 4 8 4 8 6 8 4 0 4 5 6 1 8 0 5 9 6 8 9 4 6 7 5 8 6 8 1 8 5 9 2 7 4 3 9 9 2 6 6 2 5 9 1 6 3 0 1 5 8 2 4 6 5 3 1 7 3 4 7 5 1 8 7 5 9 9 5 0 0 9 9 3 3 3 0 7 5 9 0 1 2 8 6 0 0 6 8 0 2 7 5 5 2 5 1 2 6 8 4 6 5 2 0 2 8 1 2 8 0 6 1 7 0 9 7 2 4 5 0 6 3 0 9 3 1 8 8 0 6 3 7 3 1 6 5 0 9 4 0 4 0 8 9 4 9 7 7 7 1 7 5 6 3 4 9 4 3 5 6 8 6 7 5 5 2 6 2 8 4 5 5 1 0 2 1 1 8 5 9 1 5 0 0 1 3 3 7 4 2 4 1 6 7 3 0 9 3 1 6 5 3 7 9 5 4 7 4 9 8 7 3 8 1 2 1 0 1 0 5 7 2 2 0 6 8 4 4 9 7 9 5 2 5 4 3 9 6 1 3 8 6 5 2 4 1 1 4 5 6 7 4 0 7 8 9 7 6 2 9 0 8 8 4 9 9 7 9 1 0 1 7 9 2 1 7 5 1 4 6 5 8 7 5 7 1 9 6 0 2 0 5 9 0 5 1 7 3 1 9 5 0 5 0 1 5 9 0 6 5 9 4 0 5 4 1 4 9 3 6 5 5 2 4 0 8 8 1 5 8 6 4 6 1 1 0 6 5 2 2 1 5 4 3 2 7 9 3 6 3 8 5 2 3 9 9 9 5 5 2 5 1 7 5 0 5 7 4 3 9 2 4 7 8 8 2 0 2 6 1 8 9 2 2 2 5 5 0 1 6 4 0 6 3 6 4 2 8 0 8 3 7 2 9 8 6 7 6 4 0 8 9 6 0 1 2 5 2 2 9 1 5 3 2 9 2 6 4 8 4 8 8 6 9 5 8 1 3 0 2 6 0 7 8 6 1 6 1 1 1 4 7 4 5 9 3 4 7 0 4 2 6 0 1 3 3 3 2 0 4 4 6 4 1 6 8 1 5 2 7 0 2 2 7 7 1 0 2 1 8 0 7 0 8 3 3 3 8 0 3 0 4 7 5 1 1 8 2 8 7 8 5 4 3 1 0 4 6 5 3 1 3 0 5 7 5 4 2 7 3 9 2 7 4 7 6 5 0 6 1 2 0 2 4 1 5 2 7 0 6 0 5 4 1 2 8 9 1 2 3 6 8 1 2 6 1 2 5 7 7 3 7 9 9 1 8 3 6 9 0 1 3 4 3 1 2 9 9 1 9 5 4 9 2 1 3 3 8 0 8 8 2 1 1 3 8 4 4 0 4 4 0 3 3 5 3 1 5 3 0 9 4 9 1 7 3 0 8 3 9 8 3 7 2 3 5 9 0 7 0 2 0 1 9 9 9 0 4 5 8 8 0 6 0 4 0 1 1 2 7 1 8 4 5 6 8 2 1 4 0 0 1 0 2 1 9 7 4 7 0 3 0 7 3 0 1 7 8 0 4 9 3 2 9 6 2 4 7 1 9 3 2 9 5 3 9 8 1 1 4 4 9 6 2 2 0 5 0 5 1 5 3 4 7 2 6 2 0 2 0 2 2 0 1 3 8 3 1 5 7 6 2 8 7 4 1 6 2 6 3 7 7 6 5 1 0 6 4 0 5 9 6 0 1 2 9 0 5 8 6 4 7 8 3 9 1 7 8 2 1 9 3 0 1 4 0 1 4 0 5 8 5 8 3 5 8 3 1 6 5 1 3 9 5 2 0 2 8 5 0 2 9 0 4 2 1 9 7 8 1 8 6 2 5 6 0 1 4 9 2 1 4 0 2 1 1 3 7 7 3 0 7 0 6 2 0 1 2 0 5 4 1 6 8 2 2 6 7 2 1 5 4 1 7 7 1 4 7 7 9 1 3 0 8 9 5 3 5 4 2 0 3 3 8 0 8 4 2 8 2 9 0 6 3 5 2 1 0 1 5 9 9 2 6 7 2 0 8 6 4 0 6 7 0 6 2 4 8 8 4 0 5 5 3 8 3 0 5 3 8 5 6 4 2 8 7 1 9 8 5 8 0 7 2 2 5 8 5 4 2 0 2 5 5 4 2 6 7 5 3 4 3 7 1 8 1 5 4 2 7 4 8 4 7 2 6 5 8 0 8 5 5 8 3 2 0 8 8 6 9 7 2 3 6 2 2 6 2 4 2 0 5 1 9 8 0 2 5 8 7 5 3 3 1 1 4 2 1 0 2 2 4 3 9 1 4 2 1 3 7 0 8 6 2 3 9 7 3 7 4 9 1 7 2 3 4 5 2 4 5 3 6 0 5 3 1 8 7 0 0 4 1 2 9 0 8 3 1 6 9 3 2 0 0 9 5 0 8 9 3 9 2 9 3 5 7 2 3 5 3 8 9 6 8 8 2 2 2 2 5 9 3 8 4 0 2 2 6 0 6 1 4 8 2 2 2 3 4 1 4 2 3 9 1 2 2 5 2 3 2 4 3 3 9 1 6 0 7 0 5 7 4 8 1 1 2 4 7 9 0 5 8 8 6 6 7 9 7 2 7 3 7 2 6 2 0 9 6 1 4 5 3 8 5 9 1 8 3 8 7 8 8 3 3 5 9 3 9 2 7 6 3 2 8 8 7 2 2 9 0 2 1 1 3 7 3 0 0 0 3 7 6 5 3 3 5 3 2 1 7 6 6 4 7 1 2 5 7 9 7 1 5 4 8 0 5 9 2 1 5 6 1 3 5 7 0 2 1 2 5 4 4 7 9 6 5 9 8 6 7 6 1 0 6 7 4 5 3 1 6 8 2 7 6 0 4 7 1 9 7 2 6 4 2 9 9 8 4 8 7 5 9 1 6 6 2 2 8 9 6 7 0 9 9 3 8 1 6 2 2 1 0 4 5 5 1 8 0 8 0 7 7 2 4 8 8 6 7 9 8 4 7 3 7 3 1 6 5 7 3 7 5 6 7 8 0 9 4 9 6 5 0 7 7 3 5 2 9 8 9 8 5 4 7 4 2 7 5 4 7 2 5 7 6 2 4 5 1 8 2 8 3 6 0 9 5 9 2 9 5 0 5 9 7 1 7 5 8 9 9 8 2 9 5 7 8 7 7 4 6 6 6 0 2 8 8 1 2 2 7 4 0 9 0 3 3 8 0 2 0 7 7 9 1 0 3 3 6 8 4 5 5 6 8 1 0 1 9 6 6 7 1 2 6 4 2 0 2 8 7 0 1 8 7 7 0 9 2 0 3 3 0 1 7 0 0 5 9 0 0 3 7 6 8 9 0 1 7 1 3 4 0 4 7 1 6 3 1 8 3 3 3 0 3 9 0 1 3 8 3 5 7 2 2 1 6 0 3 0 2 5 6 9 9 0 9 2 9 6 1 0 8 8 1 7 9 2 4 1 9 5 8 3 9 3 2 5 0 0 2 8 3 4 9 4 7 2 4 1 5 6 1 8 8 0 1 2 4 9 9 5 9 2 6 2 9 8 6 2 9 5 9 2 6 6 2 4 4 7 5 4 8 5 8 4 4 5 6 2 5 0 2 4 5 3 3 0 7 6 2 3 6 0 8 0 9 4 3 1 4 9 5 1 6 2 2 2 9 7 1 6 8 6 3 2 8 5 1 4 7 8 9 3 2 0 5 1 7 6 2 7 7 4 0 7 5 9 3 3 4 1 0 0 1 7 1 0 1 2 5 2 7 4 7 3 8 1 2 2 8 4 7 6 4 8 3 2 2 4 9 2 0 4 7 4 9 4 6 3 4 0 0 3 3 4 5 6 7 8 4 0 8 7 8 1 8 4 8 3 3 9 8 1 9 1 5 5 0 6 6 2 9 5 9 3 1 8 2 6 9 5 5 4 4 6 4 3 0 0 9 7 6 3 1 2 3 6 0 0 0 5 0 1 8 0 6 1 9 7 6 5 7 0 9 2 1 2 4 7 1 9 0 4 5 8 7 9 3 5 4 7 4 0 7 3 2 2 5 5 2 2 7 5 2 6 0 1 7 4 6 4 4 8 6 0 9 2 4 4 0 4 3 4 1 1 7 0 3 7 1 3 8 2 5 1 5 9 2 9 9 2 1 9 9 2 0 3 3 8 1 1 7 8 0 0 6 0 9 4 2 8 7 1 3 8 7 3 8 4 0 4 2 8 6 2 8 5 6 1 5 4 8 1 5 2 9 1 7 6 1 0 1 3 7 8 3 0 3 6 3 8 6 4 4 2 2 8 3 4 0 2 0 2 4 7 5 1 4 6 9 9 2 9 2 5 6 3 5 9 3 3 1 4 6 6 0 3 7 9 5 4 3 4 6 2 7 4 8 1 0 3 9 1 2 5 6 1 8 2 6 4 4 5 4 9 4 9 8 2 9 7 6 9 1 4 8 3 7 2 8 7 0 8 4 0 0 0 5 5 6 3 1 7 7 6 3 7 3 9 4 0 0 7 7 6 9 1 4 7 2 6 4 4 9 1 0 9 5 7 9 3 6 5 9 7 0 8 0 5 7 6 5 6 6 0 0 9 8 2 0 3 3 8 9 8 0 9 4 6 6 9 2 0 0 5 5 4 3 5 6 7 1 7 6 2 8 9 7 5 5 5 2 2 7 1 4 4 7 9 2 2 1 9 3 2 2 0 5 0 4 9 3 8 8 9 6 7 5 8 9 7 3 8 8 4 4 7 1 7 6 0 2 8 1 9 6 4 8 9 7 4 2 3 2 4 4 0 9 1 4 8 8 2 5 8 3 0 4 9 2 3 9 9 9 4 3 3 1 1 1 0 7 6 7 0 6 1 1 9 4 5 7 3 5 5 7 4 4 9 4 1 7 7 1 4 0 9 8 2 0 9 5 0 2 8 8 2 6 3 4 3 6 0 1 6 1 1 1 3 9 3 5 5 8 4 6 3 2 6 4 1 5 2 4 8 7 8 3 3 2 6 6 9 2 5 6 9 9 5 3 3 2 1 5 3 8 9 7 4 1 3 0 2 7 6 2 0 1 9 3 5 8 5 3 6 8 2 1 5 0 3 6 2 2 4 3 0 7 8 0 5 4 1 5 7 7 7 3 5 8 9 5 1 3 6 8 2 2 9 4 7 6 0 4 8 4 1 8 6 7 7 8 3 7 0 9 9 8 9 2 1 6 9 8 4 1 3 4 4 9 8 5 8 7 2 2 8 5 4 0 6 0 0 5 6 7 1 0 2 0 9 2 5 2 0 3 7 2 3 7 0 6 9 4 1 6 3 3 0 1 3 8 2 7 2 5 2 1 4 8 8 6 1 8 5 1 2 8 2 8 0 0 8 1 2 8 8 4 0 1 3 0 8 0 7 0 0 2 9 5 0 1 0 7 0 2 9 1 5 2 2 1 0 8 6 8 7 7 3 3 6 1 3 8 9 5 4 0 8 0 4 5 8 9 0 4 3 1 5 8 0 4 1 1 8 4 1 5 6 1 7 4 8 7 9 0 7 3 5 9 2 4 6 9 9 0 2 0 4 7 1 8 6 3 1 2 9 2 2 9 7 8 5 9 2 2 9 5 2 3 4 9 7 7 2 2 3 5 8 5 8 5 4 9 4 8 4 4 9 6 5 6 2 7 8 0 1 1 0 8 4 4 2 1 8 4 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 9 3 6 5 9 4 8 3 1 0 3 0 7 9 7 2 8 0 6 3 4 4 6 1 9 9 5 3 8 4 0 9 2 4 6 8 4 3 7 6 1 4 6 3 8 2 3 0 6 7 6 0 4 2 7 1 4 4 7 9 4 0 3 6 9 6 7 4 3 4 2 4 9 4 1 0 8 9 9 0 1 9 4 6 1 8 4 3 6 6 5 9 0 2 3 8 4 8 4 4 4 1 5 2 0 8 6 1 7 3 7 8 5 4 6 0 6 5 0 3 7 0 5 4 4 2 9 0 2 5 3 7 6 5 6 5 8 5 6 8 3 7 8 8 4 9 0 3 6 7 5 6 2 6 5 5 5 2 5 8 5 7 2 5 9 0 9 8 6 2 9 0 6 3 4 7 0 2 1 5 2 5 2 6 5 1 0 0 2 7 1 6 8 1 8 6 2 8 3 8 0 6 1 7 4 5 6 9 9 2 7 6 2 4 2 1 0 2 8 2 5 9 0 1 6 5 6 2 4 2 1 8 2 6 8 0 8 5 6 0 4 5 4 7 5 5 6 4 1 8 4 0 1 0 2 7 2 7 3 4 4 6 5 5 7 0 8 0 5 6 6 5 9 0 8 8 1 1 7 1 2 7 6 4 1 4 9 9 0 4 6 0 0 1 5 4 0 5 6 6 5 1 6 9 9 4 6 0 8 6 5 8 7 5 9 4 4 3 3 4 4 5 1 2 2 1 4 0 3 9 9 9 7 2 9 8 7 6 5 2 5 2 3 0 0 2 2 2 8 0 6 6 9 7 5 9 0 9 3 9 2 0 5 9 0 3 7 7 7 3 1 5 2 2 1 2 6 4 9 7 2 8 8 1 8 8 5 3 1 7 4 5 0 6 8 6 4 6 0 1 4 2 1 9 7 9 1 9 7 0 8 0 6 9 2 4 6 6 6 3 5 8 7 4 1 4 7 2 6 4 0 6 1 3 1 6 1 5 6 6 9 8 5 0 9 7 9 0 7 8 6 0 2 4 6 2 0 3 6 5 6 0 9 7 3 2 8 4 1 3 6 0 6 4 7 9 0 5 1 4 4 3 2 4 0 0 0 3 0 9 4 7 4 7 9 9 4 7 8 4 6 7 3 6 1 8 0 6 7 4 9 3 2 8 9 6 8 7 3 4 6 2 7 7 8 7 0 8 8 6 8 7 7 8 9 7 8 7 1 3 0 8 4 1 5 2

Re:page lengthening post!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

hahahaha good job

BBC has an interesting take on the issue

[Anonymous Coward]

The BBC had a story about this earlier.

I guess those Brits aren't so dumb afterall.

Damn, should have previewed

[CmderTaco]

8
5
8
3
4
5
6
4
6
1
6
0
6
3
4
0
1
8
8
5
3
7
2
6
2
9
4
6
9
9
5
9
5
5
6
9
7
0
1
3
4
8
8
8
9
8
6
4
7
2
0
1
3
0
8
5
9
1
9
6
1
1
2
9
2
0
1
7
8
5
8
0
4
4
8
5
3
2
1
1
9
0
2
8
1
4
1
3
9
6
0
2
7
9
3
9
1
8
9
7
5
2
8
9
9
6
2
4
7
9
1
5
2
0
0
8
5
3
4
6
7
0
3
4
9
5
1
3
8
6
7
9
7
6
4
5
3
2
6
4
0
1
8
1
8
9
2
0
3
0
7
9
7
2
5
2
4
4
5
8
5
4
2
4
5
8
5
4
1
0
7
5
2
2
4
6
3
7
4
6
6
6
3
9
2
0
2
6
1
7
9
9
9
8
0
2
6
2
5
2
7
8
2
8
0
3
8
4
1
9
2
4
2
5
2
9
6
2
1
8
0
7
3
1
1
6
7
3
9
0
5
3
4
3
7
3
5
8
5
1
5
5
3
5
1
0
7
5
5
5
9
6
0
8
9
9
8
6
1
8
5
5
5
4
7
3
9
1
5
0
4
2
9
1
4
1
0
4
9
3
1
7
1
3
0
2
9
9
1
6
8
7
1
0
9
8
9
7
4
1
0
1
7
2
8
7
1
0
1
9
9
8
9
6
5
7
9
1
4
5
6
3
5
9
7
8
6
2
6
1
8
4
7
5
6
7
6
9
1
4
0
8
0
5
2
0
7
9
6
9
5
4
7
7
7
7
2
1
0
1
1
4
0
1
8
3
3
1
6
5
0
2
8
3
2
9
6
6
4
0
0
8
5
1
8
3
2
9
5
3
1
0
7
3
4
1
0
9
9
1
3
3
5
6
4
9
7
7
4
3
2
0
0
2
5
1
3
1
6
6
6
5
1
4
0
7
7
5
2
5
6
2
1
2
2
4
6
7
7
2
0
8
8
9
5
2
6
8
5
7
6
9
2
2
2
0
3
3
7
4
5
6
5
8
4
9
9
9
4
1
4
1
8
0
8
7
4
2
1
0
9
1
8
7
4
6
5
1
9
9
9
7
6
2
7
5
5
1
0
9
7
3
8
9
2
5
9
5
7
5
9
0
9
8
8
2
0
9
1
4
5
3
1
5
5
7
5
9
0
6
4
5
4
5
2
0
7
1
8
3
1
4
4
4
0
9
4
2
0
5
3
4
2
2
8
8
0
5
0
5
2
3
7
8
3
2
7
2
6
8
0
1
8
1
7
8
4
9
3
0
1
5
1
5
6
5
8
7
2
6
3
8
5
9
5
8
4
5
4
7
3
1
4
0
5
8
9
6
7
8
9
5
5
4
8
4
0
8
6
1
9
6
6
3
3
2
4
5
7
8
6
3
3
0
4
0
1
0
1
5
1
2
1
6
9
4
5
6
9
1
0
2
0
6
1
7
0
0
2
9
0
3
3
4
9
1
8
2
6
9
6
9
2
0
4
6
2
7
3
5
6
1
6
9
3
8
9
3
1
0
5
2
1
3
8
6
6
4
3
5
8
7
5
3
4
9
5
3
4
7
5
8
6
5
0
3
9
7
2
7
9
0
9
2
1
1
2
4
8
4
4
0
8
7
0
4
0
8
2
9
4
6
1
0
3
2
0
4
7
5
1
6
9
9
1
1
8
9
6
3
8
2
9
7
3
2
1
6
4
3
9
3
1
8
3
5
0
9
1
2
4
4
8
3
4
3
8
8
2
1
2
9
1
3
3
6
3
6
1
5
1
4
5
7
3
4
3
0
2
4
1
8
1
7
4
4
9
2
6
4
1
0
1
6
1
6
4
9
7
0
2
6
4
7
4
9
1
8
2
9
3
5
5
2
7
8
1
5
7
2
2
0
4
7
6
1
1
9
9
5
3
8
4
3
8
1
5
1
2
2
2
8
7
0
1
5
0
9
1
2
3
1
2
6
1
7
7
8
7
0
3
4
2
2
9
4
7
3
4
3
7
0
5
2
8
6
5
6
9
2
5
8
1
8
3
1
0
1
6
3
2
6
3
7
2
5
9
2
5
1
6
4
4
4
2
7
0
2
3
6
4
1
4
0
4
9
1
7
1
3
5
1
0
6
6
4
2
1
6
4
5
3
9
7
1
7
4
7
8
5
3
5
4
8
1
3
8
4
4
3
3
5
6
8
5
6
8
5
2
1
0
4
3
7
0
0
9
1
3
9
4
2
0
4
8
7
6
1
5
9
6
1
5
1
0
8
1
6
7
2
9
9
5
8
1
0
4
4
7
1
1
7
4
3
1
3
4
0
2
2
0
2
6
9
5
2
8
8
2
2
8
3
4
7
0
2
4
1
9
9
2
7
0
7
0
4
3
2
3
0
0
9
8
2
0
9
3
2
2
2
3
2
7
0
6
9
8
9
7
7
0
6
6
4
0
4
9
3
2
1
2
9
1
9
1
6
3
1
9
4
3
5
7
5
3
2
2
7
0
7
3
6
5
5
5
4
3
3
2
9
6
1
1
1
7
5
5
2
4
5
0
0
4
4
9
8
0
0
4
3
8
9
6
5
0
7
0
0
2
9
6
8
9
3
9
8
0
5
3
8
8
1
6
4
5
3
2
9
7
5
9
1
3
2
0
4
2
1
0
5
7
9
2
0
0
6
6
3
1
3
0
1
2
1
7
8
9
7
1
5
8
6
6
4
8
1
9
9
7
8
4
1
0
7
7
1
4
0
9
9
1
4
8
9
2
3
1
4
7
3
9
5
2
4
6
5
2
0
8
8
2
8
0
1
2
9
3
9
9
7
9
9
3
3
4
1
5
9
6
6
0
4
2
7
4
0
6
5
9
6
1
9
3
2
8
8
6
0
4
3
0
6
4
6
8
7
9
4
8
8
4
7
0
8
2
7
1
3
6
8
0
4
1
0
7
0
7
6
3
4
6
0
4
8
4
1
7
0
0
5
7
2
1
9
8
8
3
5
9
4
5
7
5
9
2
9
0
2
5
6
4
9
1
8
8
3
7
9
2
7
9
3
9
0
9
5
7
0
1
7
6
3
2
5
8
6
0
3
9
8
3
1
0
8
5
4
9
1
2
2
5
5
0
5
0
2
4
8
7
0
9
2
7
0
5
4
8
0
7
0
1
9
9
5
5
8
0
7
2
3
9
3
6
8
9
0
7
0
7
1
1
3
0
8
9
7
5
7
9
7
8
9
2
6
2
0
8
2
2
5
5
9
7
5
9
1
8
5
6
3
7
7
9
4
0
1
0
2
1
7
1
3
6
6
9
8
1
9
2
8
3
4
4
9
4
0
3
0
2
7
4
1
3
8
4
8
2
1
4
7
0
8
6
2
7
1
8
5
5
5
8
0
9
4
6
4
1
1
1
1
5
5
8
5
3
7
7
1
0
5
0
1
3
0
5
0
3
0
5
9
4
0
7
3
3
1
7
3
5
1
5
8
1
7
4
6
7
7
9
8
8
0
3
6
8
9
1
2
0
1
8
9
6
8
2
3
9
3
4
8
5
3
6
6
4
0
8
3
5
1
2
5
1
5
0
1
4
5
4
4
1
2
3
6
0
1
4
5
2
0
3
9
2
0
5
2
8
2
8
7
4
1
7
6
2
7
8
7
1
3
7
0
9
2
7
9
6
2
4
4
5
7
1
5
4
4
4
0
8
0
9
8
4
1
7
7
6
4
2
3
7
4
0
7
1
7
6
0
3
4
4
6
3
3
4
7
0
8
4
6
7
4
9
6
4
3
3
4
6
4
1
1
2
2
6
9
8
6
6
9
9
0
6
6
9
7
0
6
9
6
8
5
9
0
4
3
3
0
6
1
7
5
0
1
5
0
5
1
6
6
4
6
4
2
0
0
8
4
4
1
0
9
6
3
8
7
0
7
1
6
8
4
2
4
6
3
4
0
1
0
8
6
7
0
6
4
9
2
3
5
3
4
2
2
1
4
9
1
4
0
5
1
0
9
6
0
5
6
9
5
3
0
8
3
2
4
5
7
5
7
9
5
4
4
5
6
4
4
5
2
3
2
6
1
4
0
3
0
4
3
0
9
4
6
2
4
4
6
1
5
8
2
0
4
3
1
7
4
5
9
1
6
3
2
3
6
2
3
7
2
0
2
3
3
5
5
1
8
1
8
1
2
1
2
0
8
7
7
8
9
8
3
1
2
1
2
4
1
4
3
1
3
8
4
0
0
7
1
2
3
9
9
5
8
4
1
3
7
2
1
6
5
4
2
8
8
3
2
8
8
4
5
1
2
7
0
9
4
3
9
7
6
4
9
2
8
0
6
3
6
5
4
0
3
3
1
7
0
6
1
5
0
1
6
9
7
1
0
9
7
4
6
1
5
3
0
1
5
0
1
4
6
3
6
0
7
8
6
2
8
6
1
4
9
9
9
1
5
9
3
9
2
1
5
8
8
4
2
1
0
5
2
0
2
2
7
5
9
1
1
7
8
0
2
3
8
8
2
0
4
6
1
9
2
7
3
2
3
1
4
2
7
8
4
5
3
8
7
4
2
2
3
6
0
5
3
2
1
9
7
0
2
9
4
7
0
2
5
6
7
2
7
2
8
9
2
3
7
9
7
5
0
3
6
2
9
7
6
0
9
5
2
5
6
4
2
2
8
8
6
6
9
4
2
0
7
0
2
9
1
0
8
9
4
7
7
1
5
2
0
6
7
8
1
0
5
8
6
3
0
6
2
5
6
2
8
6
6
4
0
6
4
9
9
3
8
4
9
6
5
8
6
9
6
7
0
8
7
8
5
0
7
9
7
7
6
4
6
8
9
0
9
8
3
2
1
7
5
6
9
1
7
0
4
8
0
6
4
3
8
0
0
1
3
8
8
6
7
6
7
6
7
2
6
0
7
5
4
1
7
4
1
1
9
6
5
2
1
6
9
0
7
1
1
6
1
4
8
7
6
5
0
8
4
0
7
6
2
5
9
2
7
1
1
8
8
2
8
0
1
8
8
3
2
7
9
4
4
9
5
3
2
7
6
4
2
6
5
9
6
9
5
1
8
7
5
8
2
4
5
1
5
4
9
5
1
5
4
4
4
4
2
8
2
9
6
3
4
2
7
4
8
3
4
6
2
4
8
5
0
9
5
5
5
5
6
1
1
1
6
4
4
2
6
7
4
7
9
4
4
9
8
5
6
3
4
6
4
5
4
2
8
4
8
0
3
3
5
5
0
3
5
4
7
3
2
3
6
7
6
5
4
9
3
5
6
7
8
1
4
0
0
4
6
5
6
5
2
0
1
1
6
5
3
3
6
9
4
1
6
8
7
6
6
3
8
9
7
1
4
9
7
0
1
4
0
9
8
0
5
7
9
2
7
6
9
0
3
2
9
5
1
4
2
7
4
3
8
2
7
1
4
9
5
9
1
7
8
2
5
3
6
6
4
4
1
2
3
4
2
4
2
8
0
3
3
5
0
1
8
6
4
4
8
1
0
6
7
7
9
0
6
4
6
7
2
9
5
9
6
4
5
5
7
5
0
1
8
1
7
7
3
6
5
6
5
4
6
4
3
7
9
2
3
1
9
4
8
3
7
4
8
9
5
8
0
0
8
4
9
2
8
4
9
6
8
5
7
7
6
4
5
3
8
2
6
4
7
7
8
8
5
3
9
8
5
3
7
7
3
0
6
9
7
3
1
1
1
6
3
8
2
8
9
7
2
7
4
2
3
8
6
0
7
3
0
1
8
4
3
0
3
5
9
0
4
6
5
4
1
6
5
7
7
8
8
4
0
5
9
4
0
8
9
2
1
0
2
6
6
0
3
3
6
5
8
5
4
4
5
9
8
2
1
3
4
4
0
9
9
2
0
9
2
9
1
9
4
2
3
3
2
4
3
0
8
7
4
2
0
9
7
0
7
1
3
5
5
8
9
4
7
3
8
5
9
3
8
4
5
4
6
0
9
7
7
5
9
7
6
0
3
2
7
2
8
8
1
1
4
3
0
5
1
7
3
3
7
1
4
1
0
3
9
6
1
1
1
2
5
3
7
0
7
6
9
9
8
1
5
2
3
9
9
5
1
9
6
1
6
5
6
5
9
6
4
1
9
8
1
6
5
0
4
8
5
0
0
4
5
6
5
6
6
9
1
9
3
5
7
7
1
6
9
0
8
0
0
4
6
8
2
0
6
5
0
5
0
8
4
1
6
9
2
3
4
3
1
9
6
3
5
2
3
6
7
9
6
0
8
3
6
4
8
9
7
5
4
1
3
1
6
6
0
8
6
0
1
3
5
2
6
0
2
5
6
6
7
7
0
3
8
9
1
7
6
6
4
7
7
2
9
9
2
1
4
8
8
8
0
2
8
9
3
0
8
3
3
9
4
8
9
7
1
9
4
8
0
5
7
6
8
0
0
6
7
1
6
7
7
5
3
9
5
7
3
2
3
7
6
5
2
5
9
7
7
3
8
0
7
1
2
0
9
3
8
1
7
9
4
0
5
1
3
8
2
8
5
2
7
6
8
6
7
4
9
0
6
0
5
3
1
8
8
5
9
9
7
8
7
1
6
5
0
4
3
9
4
6
7
6
0
8
2
3
5
7
7
3
9
9
9
0
7
9
2
7
9
9
9
7
2
0
9
8
5
3
6
4
6
7
5
1
4
3
1
9
1
9
0
2
5
9
2
2
1
0
2
3
9
1
8
0
8
9
2
5
8
9
5
5
4
3
9
3
8
9
7
5
0
5
7
4
5
9
6
0
9
3
6
0
9
4
5
9
9
4
2
3
1
9
2
3
2
9
6
9
3
6
4
2
8
7
4
6
0
9
6
6
5
3
2
5
1
7
5
5
1
8
6
9
3
2
0
0
7
9
3
6
8
3
4
2
9
1
1
3
0
6
4
1
4
4
7
3
3
0
8
9
0
5
4
9
5
9
2
7
3
7
8
0
5
8
0
6
9
0
4
2
4
1
2
8
3
0
0
1
7
0
0
4
1
0
2
0
7
7
1
6
6
7
0
7
3
2
4
6
4
9
1
1
4
3
3
7
7
5
8
7
2
9
1
0
8
6
8
8
0
7
0
9
2
3
6
5
4
2
1
4
8
1
1
6
0
0
0
1
0
4
9
6
0
3
6
0
8
7
1
0
3
6
1
6
4
0
4
9
6
8
2
2
7
0
1
2
2
2
6
0
8
9
1
5
9
4
6
5
6
8
7
3
8
5
8
0
0
1
2
7
1
0
0
9
7
1
9
7
9
7
4
7
7
6
1
1
2
9
5
6
6
2
6
2
4
1
3
3
3
0
7
4
8
5
8
0
2
7
2
8
4
4
6
3
2
8
8
9
7
7
6
6
5
4
4
6
2
5
9
5
0
1
7
9
9
4
9
4
8
3
9
0
5
4
6
9
7
0
9
8
6
9
0
5
8
8
0
9
2
5
8
8
5
9
1
6
3
5
6
3
1
3
8
1
4
4
6
7
9
5
3
3
8
2
2
5
9
7
0
9
5
0
4
4
5
7
6
3
1
8
1
0
5
1
6
7
0
4
9
9
2
8
6
1
4
6
4
8
5
7
4
2
0
0
9
5
3
0
9
5
2
1
7
4
6
0
0
4
5
3
7
6
3
2
6
8
4
0
9
5
0
0
9
5
8
3
7
1
7
2
9
1
9
3
8
0
9
6
0
0
7
0
5
0
5
2
3
1
9
3
9
9
0
1
3
5
0
9
9
5
0
6
4
6
9
4
6
6
0
1
2
0
8
4
3
2
6
2
2
7
8
4
7
9
0
4
3
7
5
6
0
8
9
7
0
7
5
2
3
6
3
0
4
1
7
5
6
4
9
5
3
2
3
2
7
9
6
3
7
9
4
4
1
2
8
9
7
0
6
7
3
1
5
8
5
0
6
0
6
7
0
6
2
2
3
6
0
9
2
2
4
7
7
1
5
8
3
6
1
2
3
8
9
2
0
7
2
4
4
9
5
4
5
0
9
5
9
6
1
1
5
6
0
8
5
8
6
7
9
2
2
0
6
4
2
1
4
3
2
8
2
2
8
4
9
9
0
7
1
9
1
7
9
7
4
8
8
2
5
2
2
0
5
9
4
3
7
0
2
9
5
0
0
7
5
2
7
8
3
4
9
6
3
9
9
1
4
3
6
3
7
4
6
6
0
8
0
5
5
9
9
9
6
6
8
4
2
6
4
1
6
3
4
6
1
7
2
1
7
1
0
0
3
5
8
3
4
1
2
9
0
1
1
8
5
3
7
1
9
0
6
3
8
0
6
7
6
3
2
2
2
8
9
2
7
5
2
5
5
7
1
4
5
7
3
9
0
7
7
8
0
5
9
7
5
3
5
9
3
0
5
8
5
0
5
8
1
7
4
7
1
1
8
0
1
9
1
7
7
4
8
3
7
2
6
7
6
7
2
0
3
8
6
1
5
5
7
7
8
2
8
1
9
9
3
4
3
9
9
6
4
2
1
6
5
3
5
7
8
9
7
0
0
9
0
8
0
8
6
8
1
2
2
3
7
9
6
7
3
7
3
9
1
6
6
5
4
0
9
2
0
6
0
8
6
4
3
1
8
6
1
0
3
8
8
7
4
8
7
7
3
5
8
0
4
5
3
0
9
3
5
5
9
4
2
2
4
6
9
5
5
5
5
3
6
2
4
6
7
0
7
3
7
6
0
5
1
3
3
1
2
5
7
1
2
1
3
2
7
6
5
3
1
3
6
6
4
6
5
5
3
4
5
5
7
0
3
6
9
7
5
5
5
8
1
3
9
1
2
7
7
5
5
1
2
6
5
6
9
0
4
7
1
6
4
1
7
9
4
8
8
5
1
2
2
2
3
7
5
3
2
7
9
5
6
1
8
0
2
4
4
7
9
7
8
2
2
0
8
5
8
6
4
2
0
1
6
9
7
4
0
2
1
9
3
7
1
9
4
2
8
9
2
8
4
8
3
8
9
2
4
9
9
2
6
6
3
1
8
2
9
1
2
6
0
3
4
3
7
7
1
9
3
0
5
4
5
6
3
3
8
6
8
3
3
1
1
2
0
1
3
0
5
0
7
0
0
9
4
5
9
1
4
7
7
5
7
8
6
3
5
1
6
1
2
8
6
8
7
8
1
1
3
7
9
7
3
1
0
5
5
4
1
4
2
2
1
3
0
1
4
5
8
9
6
5
9
6
3
5
2
0
7
9
0
3
6
4
0
6
2
0
1
2
0
0
3
2
5
5
7
3
3
4
0
5
7
8
2
9
8
8
4
4
9
4
8
1
3
7
4
2
4
3
5
9
1
3
5
2
8
9
1
8
9
6
8
4
9
9
4
7
8
0
0
7
5
5
8
1
4
8
3
4
9
4
8
9
9
8
4
0
3
3
4
6
7
3
0
4
4
7
8
4
8
6
8
6
8
3
5
5
6
3
5
0
6
1
5
2
0
8
1
1
8
8
1
0
2
1
4
0
0
1
6
9
3
9
6
7
6
4
1
5
2
5
8
6
4
4
8
0
8
8
1
3
5
1
2
9
1
3
8
0
9
0
1
5
8
4
3
6
0
9
9
3
8
8
9
9
6
2
9
5
9
1
3
3
2
3
1
7
7
3
9
0
1
4
7
4
8
4
5
1
2
7
1
9
1
6
7
4
0
3
2
8
8
2
4
5
2
2
2
5
7
6
5
6
5
0
5
6
0
4
0
8
0
7
1
6
4
4
9
0
8
7
9
0
1
4
4
8
4
7
6
4
5
5
5
5
4
9
9
3
8
8
7
4
5
7
0
5
4
6
3
2
9
3
3
3
3
3
8
7
8
7
7
6
7
5
6
4
6
9
2
8
7
9
4
4
8
7
3
7
5
5
7
6
5
9
7
9
9
1
5
0
5
2
7
2
9
9
5
8
2
9
5
1
4
3
7
6
9
6
1
5
3
5
9
1
4
6
4
0
4
3
4
3
4
0
9
4
5
2
1
6
2
9
3
5
2
2
5
6
8
4
8
0
4
2
6
1
8
1
6
6
5
3
1
2
8
1
7
4
1
8
1
3
7
7
8
9
9
1
5
0
5
8
6
2
2
8
7
3
6
5
7
0
5
4
4
3
4
3
2
3
3
0
4
6
7
3
3
8
7
4
6
6
1
8
9
5
3
8
8
5
0
5
9
3
1
2
2
5
5
6
7
2
5
4
7
1
2
6
0
1
4
5
5
0
7
3
9
9
2
5
9
3
9
2
5
7
8
0
2
2
0
9
7
4
3
2
7
5
3
4
3
0
5
9
1
8
1
3
8
6
5
5
6
3
4
4
7
2
1
3
2
2
0
0
2
9
2
9
4
4
0
7
4
7
4
8
0
6
6
6
0
8
7
0
8
1
6
1
0
1
5
3
0
2
4
9
6
0
7
9
3
6
3
4
6
4
8
8
1
3
1
1
8
6
3
6
3
5
3
0
4
6
6
6
3
7
4
5
3
8
5
6
4
6
2
4
1
1
0
2
1
3
5
8
3
1
8
5
7
1
7
3
4
7
0
5
0
4
9
7
4
4
9
4
4
2
8
6
4
2
8
5
8
4
1
5
0
6
8
3
0
5
8
6
2
7
0
5
8
0
0
4
2
0
6
8
1
9
2
9
5
6
5
0
1
2
8
1
1
1
8
3
8
5
7
0
1
7
3
9
5
2
7
5
1
7
1
0
3
5
3
2
9
6
8
1
7
4
6
7
9
9
4
0
0
6
3
4
3
8
4
1
8
6
1
9
3
8
9
6
7
6
2
4
8
4
1
4
3
7
5
0
6
1
0
6
3
5
7
7
2
2
9
7
7
8
1
6
1
4
5
0
1
8
8
4
5
0
1
1
8
6
7
9
5
8
2
8
6
9
9
7
0
1
2
9
8
6
9
3
7
6
4
5
4
8
4
1
3
7
1
6
9
8
0
5
0
2
6
7
6
5
0
4
1
6
9
1
9
5
4
1
6
5
3
5
3
3
8
5
4
6
8
4
5
1
6
5
2
5
6
9
0
8
0
7
6
9
5
9
8
2
7
9
8
4
6
5
5
8
1
4
2
8
7
0
2
0
6
9
5
8
8
8
7
5
9
5
9
1
6
5
3
5
7
4
8
4
9
8
9
2
3
8
8
5
4
6
9
2
8
6
2
3
8
8
5
4
7
6
2
4
7
4
2
8
6
8
7
7
7
0
3
0
5
5
7
9
2
7
4
4
4
5
5
1
0
2
1
0
5
1
9
9
2
1
2
0
4
8
0
4
5
3
3
9
7
5
0
2
9
7
4
2
3
6
8
4
0
5
3
1
4
8
2
9
9
8
2
6
0
3
8
6
8
2
9
5
9
6
1
4
9
0
8
3
7
6
2
4
3
0
0
2
2
6
4
4
1
0
9
3
6
3
5
5
2
0
7
5
2
8
2
7
7
0
2
3
5
6
2
1
5
3
7
0
2
5
8
6
4
2
0
8
2
7
2
4
3
3
7
5
6
0
7
4
9
2
6
9
8
4
9
8
1
7
5
2
3
2
6
7
3
7
5
7
7
4
4
2
5
4
4
3
1
1
7
4
0
8
6
7
6
9
6
6
5
6
0
4
5
8
2
8
5
9
0
7
2
2
3
3
4
7
8
4
8
0
6
1
5
5
0
5
9
0
7
7
5
3
0
4
8
2
8
1
3
3
3
4
9
2
1
7
5
6
6
6
6
5
7
6
1
4
7
8
8
8
3
2
4
4
3
7
4
2
7
7
4
2
3
5
5
1
2
5
3
5
6
4
7
7
3
9
1
1
4
4
3
9
9
3
8
3
7
9
2
7
2
8
2
0
7
7
3
0
8
1
4
8
6
6
0
3
5
3
1
0
9
8
4
5
6
1
2
2
9
9
3
7
6
6
3
2
2
5
3
7
3
5
3
0
3
7
6
4
8
0
7
4
0
7
2
3
8
8
2
7
8
2
6
1
1
2
3
2
7
7
4
1
8
8
6
4
6
5
5
8
4
0
4
7
4
9
6
2
8
5
4
1
1
4
3
8
0
7
6
3
0
9
7
1
7
3
7
4
1
6
7
4
5
6
8
5
9
8
8
3
7
5
1
9
6
3
4
6
6
4
8
0
8
8
3
6
2
0
2
5
8
7
3
2
5
9
2
0
4
3
8
3
9
8
0
5
1
5
8
5
3
3
5
7
9
0
2
6
7
2
7
1
3
4
3
0
6
1
4
7
6
9
5
2
8
7
7
1
4
6
6
4
2
7
1
8
1
2
3
9
4
0
6
5
5
4
8
7
1
2
8
0
2
4
1
9
4
2
5
4
2
3
9
2
6
7
2
7
1
1
8
5
6
5
5
2
2
2
7
3
3
5
0
3
1
3
5
3
2
5
1
6
4
3
7
8
9
4
3
7
8
2
6
3
6
0
0
6
1
7
1
7
5
2
4
0
1
3
8
4
5
9
0
2
7
1
0
2
4
0
9
4
0
3
9
1
7
5
4
0
9
4
0
7
0
3
6
5
8
1
0
9
4
4
7
6
8
6
8
1
2
6
6
1
3
0
5
8
1
2
5
0
6
0
5
3
0
0
2
2
2
4
1
9
3
1
8
2
7
3
3
6
7
5
0
2
7
9
7
5
1
3
7
8
8
2
6
4
8
6
7
6
0
7
3
2
5
4
7
4
0
8
3
5
1
8
4
1
8
8
3
9
0
0
6
0
4
5
3
8
7
0
6
0
9
8
4
7
2
2
1
6
5
9
9
7
8
5
6
3
5
3
4
0
1
3
6
8
1
8
7
6
0
6
4
8
8
3
5
4
8
8
4
2
0
2
3
2
0
0
9
1
5
0
1
7
7
5
3
8
7
5
7
5
9
5
6
4
4
8
8
1
5
4
2
6
4
3
3
8
0
3
0
9
6
5
4
9
0
7
3
2
0
4
5
5
8
8
9
3
5
1
1
8
5
0
0
3
3
0
1
5
1
6
4
2
7
7
3
5
4
0
1
6
7
2
0
6
0
6
7
8
9
7
5
3
2
8
4
5
6
8
6
1
6
0
5
4
4
0
8
5
0
7
1
4
7
5
3
5
6
2
6
4
4
4
1
6
9
1
8
8
1
4
9
6
7
7
0
8
6
2
0
6
3
8
0
9
8
9
4
3
0
6
1
5
8
7
0
6
8
9
8
6
4
5
0
9
8
0
4
9
0
8
9
9
4
6
3
5
7
1
3
8
5
1
7
4
7
4
0
1
3
4
9
2
5
7
0
8
0
8
1
0
5
7
6
2
7
1
5
6
1
7
1
0
4
8
0
7
1
1
3
2
5
7
8
0
1
7
9
4
8
4
8
6
8
4
0
4
5
6
1
8
0
5
9
6
8
9
4
6
7
5
8
6
8
1
8
5
9
2
7
4
3
9
9
2
6
6
2
5
9
1
6
3
0
1
5
8
2
4
6
5
3
1
7
3
4
7
5
1
8
7
5
9
9
5
0
0
9
9
3
3
3
0
7
5
9
0
1
2
8
6
0
0
6
8
0
2
7
5
5
2
5
1
2
6
8
4
6
5
2
0
2
8
1
2
8
0
6
1
7
0
9
7
2
4
5
0
6
3
0
9
3
1
8
8
0
6
3
7
3
1
6
5
0
9
4
0
4
0
8
9
4
9
7
7
7
1
7
5
6
3
4
9
4
3
5
6
8
6
7
5
5
2
6
2
8
4
5
5
1
0
2
1
1
8
5
9
1
5
0
0
1
3
3
7
4
2
4
1
6
7
3
0
9
3
1
6
5
3
7
9
5
4
7
4
9
8
7
3
8
1
2
1
0
1
0
5
7
2
2
0
6
8
4
4
9
7
9
5
2
5
4
3
9
6
1
3
8
6
5
2
4
1
1
4
5
6
7
4
0
7
8
9
7
6
2
9
0
8
8
4
9
9
7
9
1
0
1
7
9
2
1
7
5
1
4
6
5
8
7
5
7
1
9
6
0
2
0
5
9
0
5
1
7
3
1
9
5
0
5
0
1
5
9
0
6
5
9
4
0
5
4
1
4
9
3
6
5
5
2
4
0
8
8
1
5
8
6
4
6
1
1
0
6
5
2
2
1
5
4
3
2
7
9
3
6
3
8
5
2
3
9
9
9
5
5
2
5
1
7
5
0
5
7
4
3
9
2
4
7
8
8
2
0
2
6
1
8
9
2
2
2
5
5
0
1
6
4
0
6
3
6
4
2
8
0
8
3
7
2
9
8
6
7
6
4
0
8
9
6
0
1
2
5
2
2
9
1
5
3
2
9
2
6
4
8
4
8
8
6
9
5
8
1
3
0
2
6
0
7
8
6
1
6
1
1
1
4
7
4
5
9
3
4
7
0
4
2
6
0
1
3
3
3
2
0
4
4
6
4
1
6
8
1
5
2
7
0
2
2
7
7
1
0
2
1
8
0
7
0
8
3
3
3
8
0
3
0
4
7
5
1
1
8
2
8
7
8
5
4
3
1
0
4
6
5
3
1
3
0
5
7
5
4
2
7
3
9
2
7
4
7
6
5
0
6
1
2
0
2
4
1
5
2
7
0
6
0
5
4
1
2
8
9
1
2
3
6
8
1
2
6
1
2
5
7
7
3
7
9
9
1
8
3
6
9
0
1
3
4
3
1
2
9
9
1
9
5
4
9
2
1
3
3
8
0
8
8
2
1
1
3
8
4
4
0
4
4
0
3
3
5
3
1
5
3
0
9
4
9
1
7
3
0
8
3
9
8
3
7
2
3
5
9
0
7
0
2
0
1
9
9
9
0
4
5
8
8
0
6
0
4
0
1
1
2
7
1
8
4
5
6
8
2
1
4
0
0
1
0
2
1
9
7
4
7
0
3
0
7
3
0
1
7
8
0
4
9
3
2
9
6
2
4
7
1
9
3
2
9
5
3
9
8
1
1
4
4
9
6
2
2
0
5
0
5
1
5
3
4
7
2
6
2
0
2
0
2
2
0
1
3
8
3
1
5
7
6
2
8
7
4
1
6
2
6
3
7
7
6
5
1
0
6
4
0
5
9
6
0
1
2
9
0
5
8
6
4
7
8
3
9
1
7
8
2
1
9
3
0
1
4
0
1
4
0
5
8
5
8
3
5
8
3
1
6
5
1
3
9
5
2
0
2
8
5
0
2
9
0
4
2
1
9
7
8
1
8
6
2
5
6
0
1
4
9
2
1
4
0
2
1
1
3
7
7
3
0
7
0
6
2
0
1
2
0
5
4
1
6
8
2
2
6
7
2
1
5
4
1
7
7
1
4
7
7
9
1
3
0
8
9
5
3
5
4
2
0
3
3
8
0
8
4
2
8
2
9
0
6
3
5
2
1
0
1
5
9
9
2
6
7
2
0
8
6
4
0
6
7
0
6
2
4
8
8
4
0
5
5
3
8
3
0
5
3
8
5
6
4
2
8
7
1
9
8
5
8
0
7
2
2
5
8
5
4
2
0
2
5
5
4
2
6
7
5
3
4
3
7
1
8
1
5
4
2
7
4
8
4
7
2
6
5
8
0
8
5
5
8
3
2
0
8
8
6
9
7
2
3
6
2
2
6
2
4
2
0
5
1
9
8
0
2
5
8
7
5
3
3
1
1
4
2
1
0
2
2
4
3
9
1
4
2
1
3
7
0
8
6
2
3
9
7
3
7
4
9
1
7
2
3
4
5
2
4
5
3
6
0
5
3
1
8
7
0
0
4
1
2
9
0
8
3
1
6
9
3
2
0
0
9
5
0
8
9
3
9
2
9
3
5
7
2
3
5
3
8
9
6
8
8
2
2
2
2
5
9
3
8
4
0
2
2
6
0
6
1
4
8
2
2
2
3
4
1
4
2
3
9
1
2
2
5
2
3
2
4
3
3
9
1
6
0
7
0
5
7
4
8
1
1
2
4
7
9
0
5
8
8
6
6
7
9
7
2
7
3
7
2
6
2
0
9
6
1
4
5
3
8
5
9
1
8
3
8
7
8
8
3
3
5
9
3
9
2
7
6
3
2
8
8
7
2
2
9
0
2
1
1
3
7
3
0
0
0
3
7
6
5
3
3
5
3
2
1
7
6
6
4
7
1
2
5
7
9
7
1
5
4
8
0
5
9
2
1
5
6
1
3
5
7
0
2
1
2
5
4
4
7
9
6
5
9
8
6
7
6
1
0
6
7
4
5
3
1
6
8
2
7
6
0
4
7
1
9
7
2
6
4
2
9
9
8
4
8
7
5
9
1
6
6
2
2
8
9
6
7
0
9
9
3
8
1
6
2
2
1
0
4
5
5
1
8
0
8
0
7
7
2
4
8
8
6
7
9
8
4
7
3
7
3
1
6
5
7
3
7
5
6
7
8
0
9
4
9
6
5
0
7
7
3
5
2
9
8
9
8
5
4
7
4
2
7
5
4
7
2
5
7
6
2
4
5
1
8
2
8
3
6
0
9
5
9
2
9
5
0
5
9
7
1
7
5
8
9
9
8
2
9
5
7
8
7
7
4
6
6
6
0
2
8
8
1
2
2
7
4
0
9
0
3
3
8
0
2
0
7
7
9
1
0
3
3
6
8
4
5
5
6
8
1
0
1
9
6
6
7
1
2
6
4
2
0
2
8
7
0
1
8
7
7
0
9
2
0
3
3
0
1
7
0
0
5
9
0
0
3
7
6
8
9
0
1
7
1
3
4
0
4
7
1
6
3
1
8
3
3
3
0
3
9
0
1
3
8
3
5
7
2
2
1
6
0
3
0
2
5
6
9
9
0
9
2
9
6
1
0
8
8
1
7
9
2
4
1
9
5
8
3
9
3
2
5
0
0
2
8
3
4
9
4
7
2
4
1
5
6
1
8
8
0
1
2
4
9
9
5
9
2
6
2
9
8
6
2
9
5
9
2
6
6
2
4
4
7
5
4
8
5
8
4
4
5
6
2
5
0
2
4
5
3
3
0
7
6
2
3
6
0
8
0
9
4
3
1
4
9
5
1
6
2
2
2
9
7
1
6
8
6
3
2
8
5
1
4
7
8
9
3
2
0
5
1
7
6
2
7
7
4
0
7
5
9
3
3
4
1
0
0
1
7
1
0
1
2
5
2
7
4
7
3
8
1
2
2
8
4
7
6
4
8
3
2
2
4
9
2
0
4
7
4
9
4
6
3
4
0
0
3
3
4
5
6
7
8
4
0
8
7
8
1
8
4
8
3
3
9
8
1
9
1
5
5
0
6
6
2
9
5
9
3
1
8
2
6
9
5
5
4
4
6
4
3
0
0
9
7
6
3
1
2
3
6
0
0
0
5
0
1
8
0
6
1
9
7
6
5
7
0
9
2
1
2
4
7
1
9
0
4
5
8
7
9
3
5
4
7
4
0
7
3
2
2
5
5
2
2
7
5
2
6
0
1
7
4
6
4
4
8
6
0
9
2
4
4
0
4
3
4
1
1
7
0
3
7
1
3
8
2
5
1
5
9
2
9
9
2
1
9
9
2
0
3
3
8
1
1
7
8
0
0
6
0
9
4
2
8
7
1
3
8
7
3
8
4
0
4
2
8
6
2
8
5
6
1
5
4
8
1
5
2
9
1
7
6
1
0
1
3
7
8
3
0
3
6
3
8
6
4
4
2
2
8
3
4
0
2
0
2
4
7
5
1
4
6
9
9
2
9
2
5
6
3
5
9
3
3
1
4
6
6
0
3
7
9
5
4
3
4
6
2
7
4
8
1
0
3
9
1
2
5
6
1
8
2
6
4
4
5
4
9
4
9
8
2
9
7
6
9
1
4
8
3
7
2
8
7
0
8
4
0
0
0
5
5
6
3
1
7
7
6
3
7
3
9
4
0
0
7
7
6
9
1
4
7
2
6
4
4
9
1
0
9
5
7
9
3
6
5
9
7
0
8
0
5
7
6
5
6
6
0
0
9
8
2
0
3
3
8
9
8
0
9
4
6
6
9
2
0
0
5
5
4
3
5
6
7
1
7
6
2
8
9
7
5
5
5
2
2
7
1
4
4
7
9
2
2
1
9
3
2
2
0
5
0
4
9
3
8
8
9
6
7
5
8
9
7
3
8
8
4
4
7
1
7
6
0
2
8
1
9
6
4
8
9
7
4
2
3
2
4
4
0
9
1
4
8
8
2
5
8
3
0
4
9
2
3
9
9
9
4
3
3
1
1
1
0
7
6
7
0
6
1
1
9
4
5
7
3
5
5
7
4
4
9
4
1
7
7
1
4
0
9
8
2
0
9
5
0
2
8
8
2
6
3
4
3
6
0
1
6
1
1
1
3
9
3
5
5
8
4
6
3
2
6
4
1
5
2
4
8
7
8
3
3
2
6
6
9
2
5
6
9
9
5
3
3
2
1
5
3
8
9
7
4
1
3
0
2
7
6
2
0
1
9
3
5
8
5
3
6
8
2
1
5
0
3
6
2
2
4
3
0
7
8
0
5
4
1
5
7
7
7
3
5
8
9
5
1
3
6
8
2
2
9
4
7
6
0
4
8
4
1
8
6
7
7
8
3
7
0
9
9
8
9
2
1
6
9
8
4
1
3
4
4
9
8
5
8
7
2
2
8
5
4
0
6
0
0
5
6
7
1
0
2
0
9
2
5
2
0
3
7
2
3
7
0
6
9
4
1
6
3
3
0
1
3
8
2
7
2
5
2
1
4
8
8
6
1
8
5
1
2
8
2
8
0
0
8
1
2
8
8
4
0
1
3
0
8
0
7
0
0
2
9
5
0
1
0
7
0
2
9
1
5
2
2
1
0
8
6
8
7
7
3
3
6
1
3
8
9
5
4
0
8
0
4
5
8
9
0
4
3
1
5
8
0
4
1
1
8
4
1
5
6
1
7
4
8
7
9
0
7
3
5
9
2
4
6
9
9
0
2
0
4
7
1
8
6
3
1
2
9
2
2
9
7
8
5
9
2
2
9
5
2
3
4
9
7
7
2
2
3
5
8
5
8
5
4
9
4
8
4
4
9
6
5
6
2
7
8
0
1
1
0
8
4
4
2
1
8
4
1
2
1
1
1
1
1
9
3
6
5
9
4
8
3
1
0
3
0
7
9
7
2
8
0
6
3
4
4
6
1
9
9
5
3
8
4
0
9
2
4
6
8
4
3
7
6
1
4
6
3
8
2
3
0
6
7
6
0
4
2
7
1
4
4
7
9
4
0
3
6
9
6
7
4
3
4
2
4
9
4
1
0
8
9
9
0
1
9
4
6
1
8
4
3
6
6
5
9
0
2
3
8
4
8
4
4
4
1
5
2
0
8
6
1
7
3
7
8
5
4
6
0
6
5
0
3
7
0
5
4
4
2
9
0
2
5
3
7
6
5
6
5
8
5
6
8
3
7
8
8
4
9
0
3
6
7
5
6
2
6
5
5
5
2
5
8
5
7
2
5
9
0
9
8
6
2
9
0
6
3
4
7
0
2
1
5
2
5
2
6
5
1
0
0
2
7
1
6
8
1
8
6
2
8
3
8
0
6
1
7
4
5
6
9
9
2
7
6
2
4
2
1
0
2
8
2
5
9
0
1
6
5
6
2
4
2
1
8
2
6
8
0
8
5
6
0
4
5
4
7
5
5
6
4
1
8
4
0
1
0
2
7
2
7
3
4
4
6
5
5
7
0
8
0
5
6
6
5
9
0
8
8
1
1
7
1
2
7
6
4
1
4
9
9
0
4
6
0
0
1
5
4
0
5
6
6
5
1
6
9
9
4
6
0
8
6
5
8
7
5
9
4
4
3
3
4
4
5
1
2
2
1
4
0
3
9
9
9
7
2
9
8
7
6
5
2
5
2
3
0
0
2
2
2
8
0
6
6
9
7
5
9
0
9
3
9
2
0
5
9
0
3
7
7
7
3
1
5
2
2
1
2
6
4
9
7
2
8
8
1
8
8
5
3
1
7
4
5
0
6
8
6
4
6
0
1
4
2
1
9
7
9
1
9
7
0
8
0
6
9
2
4
6
6
6
3
5
8
7
4
1
4
7
2
6
4
0
6
1
3
1
6
1
5
6
6
9
8
5
0
9
7
9
0
7
8
6
0
2
4
6
2
0
3
6
5
6
0
9
7
3
2
8
4
1
3
6
0
6
4
7
9
0
5
1
4
4
3
2
4
0
0
0
3
0
9
4
7
4
7
9
9
4
7
8
4
6
7
3
6
1
8
0
6
7
4
9
3
2
8
9
6
8
7
3
4
6
2
7
7
8
7
0
8
8
6
8
7
7
8
9
7
8
7
1
3
0
8
4
1
5
2

Flashback...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is Slashdot only showing LAST Friday's posts?

...or maybe i'm losing it..

Re:Flashback...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're talking about your virginity then no, you haven't lost it.

This is not true....

[Anonymous Coward]

The linked article on /. had 111! comments, thats hardly a interest by /. readers... there are usualy more trolls on a article then that. I think this is another prime instance of where /.'s management have interest in something and repeadly post worthless articles about it, while all along a very small percentage of there readers give a shit.

Sad day ... Stephen King dead at 54

[Anonymous Coward]

I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Horror/Sci Fi writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.

pathetic story

[neal n bob]

please have more decent trolling material in the stories - this one probably will not get more than 100 replies. This article is not even worth crapflooding unless you are cmdertaco.

Re:pathetic story

[Tasty Beef Jerky]

You think we should just claim the entire story?

Re:pathetic story

[neal n bob]

yes - it is very close to 50 percent -1 comments. Outstanding job by all the trolls and crapflooders.

Re:pathetic story

[Tasty Beef Jerky]

Whose Wheaties should I pee in?

Seeing too much negative

[Pharmboy]

Maybe its just me, but it sounds pretty typical legal fence sitting, CYA (cover your ass, to those of you in Palm Beach)

I just don't see the evil here folks.

At first, I read the headline as . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

. . . W3C Publishes "Corrupt Patent Practices." Of course, that doesn't change the meaning.

~~~

W3C sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

W3C sucks. LINUX rules. People should stop using W3C and start using LINUX.

What's wrong with patents?

[nixadmin]

This will probably get modded down as a troll, but I have a slightly deviant perspective on the subject of patents. I believe that patent law is essential in order to protect inventors and provide incentive to innovate. Open standards discourage development of new technologies, and makes a sort of religion or fetish out of what are quite often outmoded tech. Web patents are just as necessary. Now, this is not to say that there haven't been some overzealous lawyers in the mix, but it seems to me that people forget the necessity of patents and overemphasize the negative aspects.

Re:What's wrong with patents?

[Pituritus Ani]

makes a sort of religion or fetish out of what are quite often outmoded tech

Probably because that's the only way to be fairly certain that you're not infringing on some bogus patent, hmm?

Re:What's wrong with patents?

[Anonymous Coward]

The software industry is completely maladjusted with regard to patents. Every other industry in the world has standardization processes that take into account patent licencing, but for some reason the software people can't get their shit together.

For one, there's no standard licencing terms for software patents. Companies accumulate them not to profit from their R&D investments, but as a lawsuit cudgel, which means that everyone is paranoid about the subject.

Two, you got these Free Software people who oppose the idea of software patents to begin with. You've also got a lot of free product (speech and beer) on the market.

That adds up to a big fucking mess. I for one wouldn't mind paying $5-$10 for a version of Linux-Mandrake that had a legally licenced MP3 ripper, font hinter, and an optimized version of GCC. That won't happen anytime soon, however, and so the Free folks either need to illegally distrubute product (LAME) or just not implement the features (GCC).

Re:What's wrong with patents?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing is wrong with patents. The only problem is when the W3C sets a web standard to a royalty generating patent. Royalty-free patents are no problem, and, I believe, included in several W3C web standards already.

If web standards were set to technologies protected by patents that generate royalties, then the efficiency of the web will be reduced markedly. Moreover, royalty patents would effectively shut out many people, including most of the world's poor, from the use of that web standard.

I am not a lawyer. Do not take this as legal advice.

Re:What's wrong with patents?

[Flower]

Hrmmm, history seems to contradict you there. We wouldn't be arguing web patents if TCP/IP wasn't an open standard. I wonder where things would be if Radia Perlman had patented spanning tree. Hell, where would we be if the original specs for the WWW had been patented?

It is a foundation of open standards which have allowed for innovations like streaming media over the Internet. It is open standards which allow for rapid development of these services. What? You think it'll be better if companies X, Y and Z get 50 patents over one technology and then allow them to fight it out in court so we can have feature A in our web browsers? Or, after they've finished bickering, that it is ok for a corporate created browser to claim compliance because they can afford the licensing fees but a browser like Mnemonic can't because it's created by a bunch of hackers?

Patents are not needed or wanted for a standard like the one drafted by the W3C. Ever. If a company wants a product to become a standard for the WWW then they need to be willing to give up control of that "intellectual property." Otherwise, take your chance in the market and get eaten by MS (you know this just had to be included. it is /. :) like every other smoe out there.

Patents do have uses and I am all for them but not in software. As long as there is copyright and trade secrets available it's an axiom I won't accept.

Re:What's wrong with patents?

[nixadmin]

I know what you mean, I love Linux but wish the support for proprietary formats weren't so kludgey. Codeweavers seem to have the right approach, or at least the best approach i've seen so far in terms of bringing decent web-based multimedia to the Linux desktop.

Re:What's wrong with patents?

[KjetilK]

Ok, I'll bite (though I even had moderator access, I could mod you... :-))

There is a lot that is wrong with software patents, not with patents in general.

The problem is that everyone can make a small contribution, and when you write software, your standing on other developers toes, not their shoulders.

There are only a few things that are big enough to be patented. For example, the Web. But the web wouldn't have existed if it had been patented. TimBL has made this very clear, over and over. And TimBL has also made it very clear that you're wrong: It's the common standards that encourage growth, because it makes it possible for everybody to compete on a level playing field.

Software patents had been OK if they costed no more than $100 to get (so that everybody could get them), took a week to get granted, and expired after a month.

That's what it takes for software patents to hinder continued development. However, this is completely unrealistic, so better drop them.

OTOH, I'd like you to come up with good examples of software patents that encouraged growth. And we'll see how important they were compared to e.g. the Internet and the Web.

Re:What's wrong with patents?

[Millennium]

Nothing wrong with patents in general. However, there are several problems with the current implementation. Namely, that it's far too open to abuse.

The biggest problem by far is that corporate patents are not "use it or lose it", like trademarks are. This allows corporations to essentially kill any products that might compete with them by simply buying the patent and never using it ot licensing it to anyone. The energy industry is particularly guilty of this, and has been known to be doing this for years.

Then, of course, there's the length. While seventeen years was a decent amount of time in past years, when the pace of technology moved fairly slowly in general, in this world they last far too long. Patents are supposed to encourage innovation, but not at the cost of competition. They need to be shortened to ten years at the longest, to fit the current state of technological advancement.

And finally, of course, the ability to patent software. Software is a written work, not a device (if anything is a device, it is the computer itself, but that is not software). The difference is basically the same as copyrighting a novel and patenting an entire genre. What if Tolkien had patented fantasy? It sounds absurd, but this is exactly what is going on in the software industry. Copyright provides adequate protection against stealing one's work in this case; there is no need for patents. never mind that you're not supposed to be able to patent math problems anyway, but the corporate whores in Congress seem to have ignored this for the time being.

Besides which, open patents should all be royalty-free; that's the critical part of why they are open. If you want to patent something, that's fine, but you shouldn't be allowed to charge for it if you want it to become part of an open standard.

Patents aren't bad in and of themselves. But they've been abused, most commonly in the software industry but others as well, for many years now. The system needs to be reformed to prevent this.

Re:What's wrong with patents?

[MadAhab]

It's also the lack of open standards than has prevented innovations like streaming media from really taking off. To really reach people you have to cobble together a multitude of formats and streaming mechanisms, nearly all of which are proprietary. OTOH, since I can listen to an MP3 stream of WFMU I have enough bread and circus to keep me from rioting.

Imagine if it was a cop-out

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine
by John Lennon

Here is my ass
Which you may kiss.
Take time and aim well
You don't want to miss.

For if you aim low
And your lips they do fall
Then you will find
You'll be sucking my balls.

If you aim high
Despite your true heart
Sucks to be you
Now you're eating my fart.

[bridge]

my cunt is a'drippin',
your lips are a'sippin',
my ass is a'crappin',
your mouth is a'lappin'

all that comes out of an oracifce
you eat for a main course-ifice
poop and pee, all a'yummy
Sitting proud inside your tummy!

Re:Imagine if it was a cop-out

[Anonymous Coward]

Hallo, i come from India where we do not have popular cultures and I still am learning the Western civilizations. ?Is this real words to the popular song IMAGINE by John Lennon? I thought it was about peace and oneness but this song is all sick and biological. I am Hindu and I thought this song was inspired by the great Hindu verses but this song isn't about anything except perversion. I thank you for your replys.

Re:Imagine if it was a cop-out

[MindStalker]

Your kidding right? Or course that isn't the words to imagine, hell, it isn't even the right beat. Its a lame attempt to troll, which I obviously just stepped into! :)
the real lyrics are here.

huh? who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

w3c has no influence on what I do or how I do it.

Part of the problem

[IPFreely]

Royalties are part of the problem.

Let's hope they also mean restriction free as well as royalty free. Royalty is money. Patent Licenses can have other restrictions on usage.

Workable, if we do our part....

[Bob9113]

It seems like the long and short of it is, "Specification candidates which are RAND encumbered must pass through an extra committee, and that committee must publish it's justification for recommending approval of specification status to that RAND encumbered specification candidate."

Not as strong as I might have liked, but it does make our path clear. Whenever a RAND encumbered specification is recommended by a PAG (the extra committee), we should review the justification, and voice our opinion. IE: if a PAG says, "we should make WMA the standard audio streaming architecture because Bill says it's better.", we should make a large and public effort to discredit the members of the PAG group, and have the recommendation overturned by the W3C director.

Zero change

[twitter]

As far as possible. Yeah right, so if something is not "possible" without someone's goofey patent getting in the way they will make it a standard anyway? Great, this is what they have been calling RAND all along and it's what everyone is upset about.

How about a clear statement such as the free software foundation has about US patent laws being insane, the patent office being incompetent and then refusing to support the insanity?

You're damn' right !

[mirko]

Your post has to be modded down as a troll.

Now, the problem is that you can't claim to be of public utility if you create proprietary stuff from which you'll get money by preventing public organisations not only to use them but also to learn and teach pothers to use them.

IMHO only public international organization should be involved in such researches and thus *not* make a life out of it.

We're not dealing with some home luxury device here but with a communication standard and if such standard accessibility is hindered by a royalty-hog patent, then it should no more be considered as a communication standard.

Now, you can see the obvious problem with patents when handled by multinational profit-seeking entities if you consider these bio-piracy exemples from the real world.

Punishment for violation?

[baby_head_rush]

There are a lot of guidelines, but I don't see anything about how they will enforce them.
Will the member company be removed from the committee or fined?

What does this means??

[Rams�s Morales]

What do they mean with "as far as possible"??

What do they mean with "situations in which the goal of Royalty-Free implementations may not be attainable"???

This is bullshit.

Proprietary "Standards" aren't Standards

[HiThere]

If a "standard" turns out to be encumbered with a patent, and the owner can't be convinced to allow it's use gratis as needed for standard conformance, then the standard should be revoked.

Sorry, but I don't see any way around this. A standard is a way of doing things that everybody is supposed to use to accomplish some purpose. A limitation on usage is an automatic effective limitation of the "standard". I.e., it becomes non-standard (some people are unable to use that approach). So the spec should be stricken from the list of standards.

If only some people are allowed to do something, then is just isn't a standard way of doing it. And to the extent that they even hedge on this the W3C should be ashamed of themselves. If they go against this, then the need to be replaced. It may be difficult, but they have violated the turst placed in them.

This isn't the first time that they (or one of their committees) have taken this stand. They can't be trusted. They need to be replaced.

This is not to deny that they have in the past done some good work, and that they may still do some good work. But we can't take their word as to what a standard usage is, because they have proven themselves unreliable.

This is what one should expect of them. Up until this year, or very late last year, every member was the representative of a large company, so it was to be expected that they would act for the benefit of those companies. The two Open Source members that they have added are going to be in the minority whenever a vote is taken. Company values will dominate this group. We can't expect otherwise given their structure and organization. But we can decide that they are not an acceptable authority for us to decide standard usage on.

This is made more complex because most of their past decisions were acutal standards, and much of the web and the net has been formalized based on those standards. But this doesn't act to mitigate their recent decisions. They can not be trusted. So some parallel group is needed that can act to specify acceptable standards. Even though most of what they would do originally would be to rubber stamp the pre-existing W3C standards (this one is unencumbered, that one is unencumbered, ...).

It has been said by members of the W3C that a fork would be extremely bad. Well they are the ones who have created the fork by chaning their definiton process. A fork in the standards is less bad than accepting pseudo-standards as if they were the real thing.
.

Re:Proprietary "Standards" aren't Standards

[KjetilK]

Oh, come on! Look at where the people who laid down the groundwork came from! Especially, look at what Tim Berners-Lee has said about the issue.

In his book, TimBL, very clearly said that software patents is the number one threat to technological progress in the software world.

Further TimBL has made it clear that the main reason for WWW's success was that CERN released it to the public domain. If they hadn't, there wouldn't have been any web.

Unfortunately, the US government has decided that profits are so important that technological progress must be sacrified for it. US corporations are using that for all that it is worth. European governments (I'm in Europe) is following suite, because they fear that if US corps can profit from undermining technological progress, European corporations will die.

What a great situation! But, unfortunately, the W3C can't turn the blind eye to all this. They have to work up a policy that takes software patents into account. Also, you know, if the W3C hadn't attempted to gather the big ones in the industry, the big ones wouldn't have listened to anybody anyway.

TimBL, Dan Weitzner, Jane Daly or the World Wide Web Consortium folks are not the enemies in this. The government bodies that allow patents that suck are the ones that needs to be blamed.

The W3C knows perfectly well that they are in a balancing act. If they accept patents too easily, M$ will take over the web with a few obvious, but well-chosen patents. If they don't work with M$ and the like over patents, M$ will take over the web by disregarding W3C alltogether.

But that is not to say that I don't agree that the web should remain in the public domain. In fact, I made a post to Shouldexist long ago forwarding the concept of Human Communications Carrier, where the basic point is that protocols that become popular for communication must be released to the public domain.

I may also agree that a fork may be needed if this gets out of hand. I have been thinking along the lines of making a high-quality network, where user agents will reject anything that doesn't validate, isn't digitally signed, etc. Also, protocols for making payments needs to be added very fast. Documents could be downloaded from anybody's cache, so that availability of a document is not impacted that much by the availability of a single server.

OK, let me round off by posting flamebait (yeah, I'm Karma Kapped, so don't even try modding me down! ;-) ): Why don't we move the whole standards process to Europe, and just let the USians rot in their software-patents infected hole? Lets do it right now before software patents go through, and show the officials that patents hinder growth. So, when technology flourishes in Europe, USians can just sit by and watch, cause there are a few small little details they have to spend a few years in court deciding whether or not they are allowed to use.

Re:Workable, if we do our part....

[SurfsUp]

It seems like the long and short of it is, "Specification candidates which are RAND encumbered must pass through an extra committee, and that committee must publish it's justification for recommending approval of specification status to that RAND encumbered specification candidate."

Not as strong as I might have liked, but it does make our path clear. Whenever a RAND encumbered specification is recommended by a PAG (the extra committee), we should review the justification, and voice our opinion. IE: if a PAG says, "we should make WMA the standard audio streaming architecture because Bill says it's better.", we should make a large and public effort to discredit the members of the PAG group, and have the recommendation overturned by the W3C director.

I'm with you there, I don't think that W3C is going to back down anymore than this, since IBM is reportedly pushing hard to keep the RAND option open. We should let this go on advisement, just as you say. But we should not forget who the bad actor is here and bring that up next time they want something from the open source community.

Keep in mind that there are two already-RAND- encumbered W3C standards: SVG and Voice Browser, both of which were quietly pushed through before the RAND policity was even opened to public discussion. These two standards now need to be re-examined, that is, withdrawn and ammended in line with W3C's revised patent policy. W3C isn't going to do that without a good, strong push.

WARNING: Acronym Over-load

[NOT-2-QUICK]

Even within an industry such as ours that is absolutely ravaged by the rampant (and often-unnecessary) use of acronyms, this consortium has reached new levels of stupidity and pretension.

Through the use of my Not-Quite-Patented® 'Acronym Counter', I have identified no less than TWENTY-FOUR used and abused acronyms within this document that didn't even amount to 2500 words!!! That is an unprecedented 1% of the total words!

Here an now I would like to propose the formation of a committee dedicated to ending the abuse of acronyms in technical documents concerning the I/T industry as a whole. We will be called the "Word Implementation Negating Division of the Operating World Subcommittee" (WINDOWS). On second thought, big, bad Bill might take exception to that...

Simple solution for $$ vs. OSource or Free SW

[Olinator]

Here's a simple solution for the contentious $$ aspect -- require that royalties assessed under a RAND license must be expressed as a percentage of the sale price of the item using the licensed tech.

While this doesn't prevent problems with license restrictions -- that would have to be dealt with separately -- it DOES mean that free software alternatives would be relatively unburdened.

Of course, RMS and co. wouldn't be happy, and I'd be inclined to agree with them -- this is a compromise, and compromising is the art of leaving everyone unhappy, but less unhappy than they would be if someone else at the table got everything their way.

Open the doors

[fleener]

In my job, before I embark on a course of action that has huge ramifications for the livelihood of my employer, my coworkers or our customers, I seek peer comment (listservs, web forums, etc.). I do this so I'm sure to see all sides of an issue and make the best decision possible. [Side note explanation: I do not have comparably knowledgeable peers at my workplace.]

The Patent Office should open itself up (or open itself up more). It's gotten rather old to hear about some crazy patent that was just awarded, then read a few hundred messages on /. about how bogus it is. Surely a few of those hundred posts have credible points. If a bunch of geeks can poke gaping holes in government thinking, surely something is amiss.

How to Fight Patent Laws

[MuMart]

If you disagree with someone's patent, ignore it. Release your patent-violating piece of software (spread it) without crediting yourself (use a l337 handle instead :) I don't really care about how the software laws go anymore. Once the whole open source community is forced underground it'll all be quite cool, and it'll make a mockery of the law with so many people casually ignoring it. The "warez" people have been at this for years and survive ok! Only the profiteers get caught, the crackers etc can't really be punished. The judge simply can't see what the defendent has done that warrants 10 years ....

Slopdot (#30443)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#5831)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#9245)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#22627)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#31840)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#25881)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#23006)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#14805)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#30584)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#7761)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#4900)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#6210)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#15760)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#18057)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#28335)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#32626)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#8382)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#20588)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#2762)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#21563)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#1880)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#8369)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#16644)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#4019)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#26992)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#29711)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#13989)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#14970)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#16939)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#30344)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#1094)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#7890)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#19363)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#3744)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#22046)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#20215)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#4452)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#506)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#17350)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#32436)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#22098)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#27939)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#21024)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#26585)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#28748)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#23963)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#17720)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#14455)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#21837)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#25875)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#848)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#4686)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#1370)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#25483)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#27752)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#7462)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#25183)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#1196)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Patented standards are unuseable as standards

[HiThere]

Patented standards are unuseable as standards. I don't like this, but I can't come to any other conclusion. And something masquerading as a standards body push these un-standards is possibly more harmful even than not having ANY standards body. At least there is the pre-existing basis of standards to build on.

If you doubt this, just consider the problems that the ogg-vorbis people are having because of so many patents in that area. The existence of patents renders an area unuseful for standards. Calling a government granted monopoly a standard degrades the language, and the meanings of the terms beyond usefulness. That a monopoly, not a standard. It's only a standard if it can be adopted as the standard approach.

Companies that attempt to sneak their patented approaches into the standards should be immediately removed from all participation in the process. They are deadly to it. This isn't even punishment, this is merely self protection. A standard needs to be able to be used. Otherwise it only confuses things, and pollutes the data-space.

Move the whole process to Europe? It could be in Europe for all I know. The location doesn't really matter. But it you care about this at all, campaign to keep Europe from recognizing the validity of software patents.
.

Re:Patented standards are unuseable as standards

[KjetilK]

Well, I agree with most of your points, and I agree very much that software patents are Bad[tm]. But I don't think your flames towards W3C is well addressed.

Also, W3C has never pretended to be a standards body, W3C is an industry consortium. It issues Recommendations, not standards (though I admit that I usually refer to them as standards too). Some of its Recommendations has been adopted by standards, for example, a subset of HTML 4.0 Strict has been adopted by ISO, known as ISO-HTML.

Slopdot (#11636)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#11488)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#15966)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#14092)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#18517)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#8500)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Bad patents _do_ sometimes get revoked

[archnerd]

I'm against nearly all patents, but the very worst ones often do get revoked. Some of the more glaring/humorous ones can be found www.bustpatents.com. It's possible to entertain yourself for hours on end by reading these.

Slopdot (#7328)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Slopdot (#5150)

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Slashdot is a total, complete pile of slop! Look at it, slopping all over the place!

*slop* *slop*

See!? Damn mess is what it is!

Not as simple as it looks.

[jhantin]

Here's a simple solution for the contentious $$ aspect -- require that royalties assessed under a RAND license must be expressed as a percentage of the sale price of the item using the licensed tech.

This reminds me of another software difficulty: software which is available for free (and often available in source form), with license terms that forbid distribution for fee or other consideration. After all, does "sale price" include the media price? Shipping and handling fees? What about aggregate media? That opens another can of worms.

A better solution would be that the patents would be licensed Royalty-Free for implementations covered by a license meeting the Open Source Definition requirements. This would allow flexibility for open-source implementors while preserving the proprietary products value chain. The only major complaint from patent holders I can think of with this approach is that open source may outcompete proprietary products, drying up the royalty stream.

Here you gnome apologist!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a flame and I make no apologies for it.

Gnome started for one reason and one reason only: RMS didn't agree with the KDE developers' interpretation of the GPL wrt the QT library. Gnome was set up with the intention of creating FUD to delay the uptake of the best thing to ever happen to desktop Linux and to bluff and bully the KDE crowd into getting the QT licencing changed.

Yes, you heard it right, Gnome was *deliberately* started to be "bickering, competing and incompatible" and to stop Linux having a single desktop standard if that standard was to be KDE.

The licence issue is *long* in the past. That out of the way, the Gnome crowd should have had to decency to either scrap Gnome completely (as did those working on the Harmony project, which was developing a GPL QT clone) so we could unite behind KDE or keep Gnome going as a low key longer-term hacker R&D project like Enlightenment. But no, we had to keep the ball rolling didn't we.

Why, given the adverse impact this has had on Linux and other target platforms?

NIH syndrome partly; a lot of big egos (many in the US) were beaten to the punch by a bunch of (mainly) German students.

And the fact that it relies on an existing library means that big egos who want to reinvent the universe can't develop their own object library; they have to do something useful.

But the main reason, irony of ironies, is that it is LGPL rather than KDE's GPL; yes folks, the desktop that began as *THE* GNU free desktop now boasts that it is more commercial-friendly. That's why Sun and HP are putting money into it. Guarantees success? Ah, look at CDE...

Gnome is an expensive, deliberately divisive vapourware project that should have been scrapped after the QT licence changes if the principals involved had any sense of decency or any *REAL* committment to free software. It continues because a bunch of pricks can't admit that they were wrong and continue to put their own giant egos ahead of the development of desktop Unix.

Meanwhile KDE continues to release in its usual methodical fashion while Gnome 2 stays as FUD. ("You may think KDE's kewl, but wait till you see Gnome 2!") Pardon me while I puke...

Gnome and the bastards who've hyped this piece of vapourware and tried to sabotage KDE for the last five years can go to Hell! Who needs Microsoft trying to pull the rug from under the free Unix's when you've got this lot! (Yes, that includes RMS, who is responsible for initiating and encouraging this debacle).

To paraphrase the end of RMS's infamous letter of "forgiveness" to the KDE developers: Go KDE!!!

Support Free Software

[SupportSource]

Valuable information about the FreeSoftware/OpenSource/Linux movements can be and their excellent, superior software can be found here, here, here, here and here.

Examples of the excellent community spirit within that movement that will help us bring down the illegal Microsoft monopoly: here, here, here, here, here, here, here.

Let's all work together to improve free software.