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Build A Nixie Tube Clock
J Aldridge writes: "People are still using Nixie tubes. Their warm glow seems to be the digital equivalent of the warm sound of vacuum amplifiers. One person has constructed a tube wristwatch."
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Tube clocks? Weren't those out of style in the 80's?
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
Although web archive's archives of the Repair FAQ only go back to 15 Feb 2K1, if I remember correctly the removed link went to the page Slashdot is linking too. Word from the wise: I'm not saying Nixies are inheirently dangerous, but many schmatics involving Nixie tubes do not isolate from the power line. And don't forget the big red warning on the page:
What do you think of MusicCity now?
sounds dangerous!
When can I have one?
You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
The coolest looking nixie tube based clocks I've seen on the web are these over at World Power Systems.
(Be sure to check out the Story Teller if you go to that site - extremely cool!)
I used to date a girl whose fathers father worked for some government contract oufit (can't remember off the top of my head). He was part of the program to build the first digital clock. So, his team managed to do it and for about $60K in parts they built a clock that was slightly smaller than your desktop computers and used the nixie tubes for the display. This was by far the coolest clock I have ever seen, and probably ever will see. The girls dad ended up giving me the clock because of my fascination (and even he wasnt supposed to have it, funny story behind that for a later date) and the girl took it when we split up. One of those things I will never get over, but these clocks are so incredibly cool. I'm definitely not a compotent electrical engineer type person but would definitely consider buying one if anyone is in the building market.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Another geek project I'll have to add to the list of things I HAVE to do to feel complete. *sigh*
:)
Damn you slashdot!
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
"Warning! As this design uses a transformerless power supply, the whole circuit is at mains potential. Disconnect before making any adjustments etc.
If you need to use an oscilloscope for debugging, the circuit MUST be operated through an isolating transformer."
As cool as this looks (yet still too much for me to tinker with), just this warning would put me off. One small error at 340V could be an, ahh, inconvience! And I didn't see any mention of what type of currents are running. Crispy!
But seriously, having the rough equivalent of neon tubes for "UK£10/US$15 (excluding nixies)" would be neat. But considering that my lab group for EE201 blew out every circuit/component we tried to build in lab, I wouldn't trust myself with a soldering iron on anything more dangerous than an unplugged PCB board.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
I was clued into this here recently at another website. Now, with all the other geeks exposed to Nixie tubes, it looks like my chances of getting something, at least on eBay, are far worse. Nixie clocks (or, really, the tubes) are so cool because they're so retro. The displays are incredible.
Another new hobbie vanquished by the Slashdot Effect.
Isn't life odd?
:)
Of all the obscure things to hit me twice in one day!
A friend of mine has a page up detailing exactly this.
He's a valve lover, not a web designer, but he has lots of pictures, and would love feedback!
His main page is here.
Prisoner #655321
Does Vacume Fluro Display constitute Nixie?
I have a Casio Mini (Casio's first handheld electronic calculator) that has 6 x 7 segment VFD displays. The tubes are seperate, perfect for H:M:S.
This calc is interesting as it has a fixed decimal point not shown on the display and is not capable of user entry of a decimal point.
Good condition with a slight dent and little corrosion on battery terminals. It's up for sale if anyone is interested in it or it's small tubes? Collectors item and I'm not a collector of old calcs (I prefer my 48GX).
shanep AT ign DOT com DOT au
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
My uncle was a classic tech scrounger, and had all manner of things that used tubes and early transistors. I fondly remember when he once showed me one of his prized posessions, a nixie tube calculator. It was maybe 25x25cm and the warm glow of the numbers was much friendlier than the simple black on grey of the LCDs I grew up with.
I could tell that even then it was something special by the way he treated it and obviously treasured it. It wasn't until I was older that I learned to appreciate the tech of yesteryear and the creativity and genius of those who created so much with the limited tools they had at the time.
These are breasts; this is source code.
Why do you have a problem with those two things belonging to one person?
I seem to remember: 190 volts minimum at 3 to 5 milliamps. Discouraging if you want to use batteries.
Liquid Crystal Displays: A few volts at almost zero milliamps. If you had designed with Nixies, the discovery of LCDs was like God was giving us a gift.
Bush's education improvements were
I hit submit rather than preview and neglected to add this:
There is a good background writeup on nixie tubes here on part of the WPS site.
Please don't bother moderating this up - it's at a high enough level that people will see it, and I've been at the cap for quite a while.
(now, if someone were to flip my rtbl flag I'd be thankful...
...computer made out of vacuum tubes.
:)
Oh wait, that did end up being kind of useful
Hurray for old tube things.
I would love to buy a nixie clock (I don't have the technical aptitude to build one), but I can't seem to find anyone who sells decent assembled, completed nixie clocks. Anyone know where I could get one? I have money to spend!
Projects already on the back burner:
Dynakit STA-35 amp
Pioneer vacuum tube receiver (needs some small caps replaced)
Still enjoy my old Ampeg V7 tube amp, too. Digital circuits seem to take extreme proportions to replicate the functions of the simplest old analog circuits. Not alway for the better, either.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Wow, those nixie clocks bring back some fond memories. I always wanted to build a nixie project, but as a novice hardware hacker, couldn't even read the hookup schematic. Now, a little older, wiser, and with the help of these kits maybe I'll finally build one.
However, while browsing some of the associated links, I came across this clock, which I find even cooler:
http://www.cathodecorner.com/
It uses an oscilloscope tube to draw the time in green phosphor arcs - no pixels. Way cool! And a kit is available with a guts-on-display plexiglass case. Awesome...
--Jim
Oh, sheesh ... a minute and a half with Google turned up the following if you really want to see the circuit.
f _asci2.htm
http://margo.student.utwente.nl/el/misc/text_cir/
Warning, this circuit Really Is Dangerous.
I can now finish my Goldfinger-style atom bomb!
If you're lucky, this link will take you to the description (and might even give you my session cookie
The one you're after is '11 Digit Fluoro Bargain'. Here are the details:
Only A$1.70 each - about US$1.20 or so. I got two of them a couple of years back. Needless to say, they're still sitting in the cupboard, waiting for me to get around to making something with them
Back in the late 70's - early 80's a number of pinball manufacturers used neon displays for the score, but they were flat and rectangular like vacuum fluorescents. Has anybody ever seen one with nixie tubes? That would look so cool.
I don't mean to be nit picky, but I question the qualifications of the person who designed that circuit. First off, there is no reason not to isolate the power supply from the main line. It doesn't add much cost, and the safety is well worth it. Especially on home built projects, it's already easy enough to shock yourself or start a fire (don't ask...I have done either too many times...) Second, there is also no reason to use the frequency of the mains to drive the circuit. Any one who has ever looked into that has noticed that the mains frequency varies quite a lot over time. Isolating the circuit and using an updated digital circuit or even a small micro-controller (PIC or 8x51) you could build a better, more accurate clock with more features for cheaper. I might even design one myself, put my EE degree to use...
All TV sets and computer monitors are this way too.
If you work with the stuff it's a good idea to have an isolation transformer around (I've misplaced mine) There is a lot of High Voltage stuff in electronics. Know what you are dealing with, take all the right precautions, and hold one hand behind your back.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
The idea dates from around 1915--there were several patents for similar
cold-cathode gas display devices before WWII.
National Union made such numeric displays around 1940,
the GI series tubes used bent wires to form numerals and
had large 9-pin bases.
The Haydu Brothers Co. developed what we call Nixies today
circa 1947/48--
Burroughs bought the Haydus out in 1952, making all their
display tubes (and their complex "Trochotron" counter tubes)
into Burroughs products. After Burroughs
was absorbed by Unisys, tube manufacture ceased--however,
companies such as Richardson/National and Philips were making
Nixies well into the 1980s. Richardson still has the special
tooling to make them, and could make more if demand
appears. Prices for NOS Nixies are rising, because so many people
are building clocks and fooling with old test equipment....
--Eric Barbour
VACUUM TUBE VALLEY magazine
(www.vacuumtube.com)
There is a big difference between a switching power supply designed by real engineers, with UL/CSA/TUV review and approval, and some random electronics project. Isolation transformers are a must for any electronic device that someone is going to poke around in with their bare hands.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
And wear rubber-soled shoes.
(NOTE: Holding one hand behind one's back and wearing rubber-soled shoes is to prevent the current from getting a path across one's heart)
Paul Anderson
"I drank WHAT?!" -- Socrates
Those are safety certifications, not reliability or performance certifications.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
In Europe the frequency actually can not deviate too much from 50 Hz, because all generators are locked into this frequency (if the frequency of one generator would be different an enormous current would flow from the other plants into this generator and it would most probably blow up). This system is used to cover peak loads:
When a large load is applied to the grid, the frequency drops slightly and all generators in Europe deliver extra power to compensate for this (i.e. keep the frequency at 50 Hz), this is called frequency compensation.
If the load persists longer, the plant/country/company responsible for the load increases its power output (thereby raising its frequency) to make sure the cost of this load is directed to the proper plant (power compensation).
Due to the inertia of the entire European powergrid most of these frequency changes are no more than microHertzes, even when applying loads of megawatts.
Just putting my "Process control in high-power electrical systems" course to use, I'm not an enormous expert in this field, and this course was a few years ago (my field is optical communications)..
Actually, all modern power supplies ARE isolated from the power line - that's the core of a switching power supply.
.1 amp, never work alone, one hand in your back pocket)) I design these things for a living.
First, the incoming AC is rectified to DC and filtered. This gives you 300VDC on about 10 to 1000 microfarads of capacitance - enough to kill you dead if it goes through your chest. That part of the circuit is directly connected to the power line.
Then the DC is chopped by a transistor and fed into a transformer (this is the "switching" part of the power supply). This chopping is done at between 60 kHz and 1 MHz (depending upon the power supply). The other side of the transformer (the secondary) is completely isolated from the power line. This voltage is then rectified, filtered, and supplied to the rest of the device. The voltage is measured, and fed back to the switching controller, which drives the switching transistor through either an optocoupler or pulse transformer, closing the feedback loop and regulating the voltage.
If you look at a modern switcher, you will usually see the "hot" side is completely isolated - even unto having sections of the PCB cut to prevent arc-over.
So, the bulk of the power supply, and the rest of the chassis, are NOT electrically connected to the power line. In fact, less of the system is connected to the power line than in an old style line frequency tranformer design. (Now, there were some old designs that rectified the power line and used that directly. THOSE designs were "hot" chassis designs, and were widowmakers...)
That said, you shouldn't go poking around inside a monitor or TV unless you know what you are doing. The anode voltage on the CRT is between 12kV and 25kV (although the source impedance is high enough that it won't kill you). However, the deflection circuits that sweep the electron beam across the CRT are at about 400V and have enough energy to knock you on your ass.
I've worked on TVs, monitors, radio transmitters (including tube based 250 watt repeaters (3kV at
www.eFax.com are spammers
Microamps versus milliamps (Which, by the way, that switching supply will consume a couple of milliamps as well- not to mention you just bulked up your device considerably...). If it takes 5 micrnoamps to operate something and another unit takes 5 milliamps the microampere consuming device will last much longer.
I don't believe that he was saying that it was impossible or that someone didn't do it- it was just a godsend for the people having to develop devices with numeric displays to not have to mess with Nixies.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Around 35 years ago, ur company used to build frequency counters using Nixie Tubes. One of our engineers got hold of some Nixie tubes that displayed dollar-signs. He built a device called "ExecuMeetingCounter". It had a couple digital thumbwheel switches labelled "attendees". You dialed in the number of people in the meeting and the device sat on the conference table and tallied up the cost of the meeting (using some arbitrary per-person cost).
Another fellow employee built a Nixie tube clock, but it used a 3-foot long glass PENDULUM as the rate determining device. A photodetector sensed the passing of the pendulum, incrementing the clock counters and sending a pulse to a coil to give the pendulum a "kick" to keep it going. It was an amusing mixture of old and new (at that time) technology.
The rule I was taught was to consciously decide not only to put one hand behind your back, but to hold your belt. I was also encouraged to think about holding my belt, to avoid the unconscious, "I just need another hand on the other side of this" which ends up with one hand holding a negative terminal and the other a positive, and the current running straight across your heart.
When I was 17 (before I'd been taught all that), I was helping a friend hook up an electric fence. The transformer had a wing nut on each side as a terminal, and was mounted to the wall by a nail at the top. For some IDIOTIC reason, I was trying to hook the fence up plugged in. Now, you often do have to work on live electrical equipment, but this was clearly not one of those cases.
So, in any event, I hooked up one lead, and was tightning the wing nut for one lead. Of course, since the transformer was hung from a single point, it was flopping around. Without even thinking about it (a lot of not thinking going on, that day), I swung up my left hand to stabalize the transformer... And grabbed the oposite terminal.
I remember standing there, with the muscles in my arms convulsing, and I thought, "I've got to do something." My chosen course of action was to yell "SHIIIIITTT!" at the top of my lungs. It didn't seem to improve my situation any, so I thought for a bit on what might be more productive. In one convulsive movement, I threw myself away from the transformer (my hands were locked to it by muscle spasms from the current).
So, children, that is why you should grab your belt with one hand, and hang on for dear life.
Yes, technologically, Nixies & related are a pain to interface to +5V CMOS logic, but that's not the point. LCDs are clearly superior in sooo many ways, but they are... well, boring.
... fun.
Pretty much all instrumentation these days looks the same, membrane switch, LCDs, a few LEDs, a pile of nifty software, an order-of-magnitude more accurate than the previous model, runs on a AA cell for 2 years until you throw it out.
However, our lovely bodies are physical, and they like being enticed with 'interface' (sic) that connects with more than just yore brane. You can *touch* nixies, the glass is nice to touch, and so are heavy bakelite knobs, switches you can *feel* change state.... Nixie digits jump around. The orange color works well with your eyes. There's no blinky multiplex updates to dazzle.
In general, pre-photomicrolithography electronic stuff was more fun to touch and use (though largely sucked when it came to power consumption, reliability, size, heat output, portability, ad nauseum) as is quite obvious.
A Tektronix scope is an excellent example of technology and interface design and of paradigms lost -- they use first-principle physics (the cathode ray tube is more than just a display, it's an integral measurement component), a mixture of solid-state and state-of-the-art electron tubes, analog computing components (verniers), big clicky knobs, coded by color, size, shape and placement, nice colors and shape, a manual that contains data and meta-data (operating, maintenance, design! and curious gratuitous cartoon graphic characters walking along signal paths...) Like other targetd instrumentation, it embodied and defined a culture of use that was far more
But performance-wise, my TDS-220 software'n'LCD 100MHz BW gigasample scope, the size of an old table radio, is incomparable. It's a pretty amazing contrast for only 30 years of development.
But now we get the best of both worlds (sic), teensy micros under the nice part of the old stuff. I think it's a pretty normal development, culturally, this re-use of the "outsides" of old equipment to achieve a revisionist view.
Interface is always where the interesting stuff is.
The best nixie and 'scope clock technology out there today, is hands-down, David's (http://www.cathodecorner.com), surface mount, AC power line isolation, small, low-power, software driven, switcher HV supply, reasonable price (no I get no kickback frmo his sales).
I wrote a brief history of nixie and decimal tube history here: http://wps.com/texts/decimal-tubes/index.html, nothing exhaustive, but a good start.
For home-brew, a transformer/diode bridge/series regulator with zener is somewhat crude, but easy to make, reliable, and reasonably low power. For a transformer I use a Thordarson-Meissner # 26R60 transformer from Allied Electronics (web order) around $19 each (provides 6.3V and 150V outputs). This is no where near as elegant as David's but for one-off it's fine.
I too make clocks (http://wps.com/products) but I'm not in the clock business per se, mine are simply art (more accurately craft) objects, though I'll make more. My emphasis is more on a functional, tactile artifact, a Nice Thing to hold and use. I've only made a half dozen so far, I've got another half-dozen in the works. After I use up my stock of PCBs I'll end up buying guts from David, it's a much better design.
I found a nixie tube multimeter in a government surplus pallet that I purchased last year. I remembered the nixie tubes from a calculater in our math room from high school and also from some of the frequency counters we used in college.
I took it out and plugged it in. It didn't work. I then got curious and took it apart to find a fuse blown. I replaced it and it lit up like a brand new multimeter.
There is something about the 3-Dimensionality of it. The numbers that it comes up with literally jump out at you or jump away from you. It's soo cool...even if its got a beige plastic case.
Unfortunately people at work didn't share my admiration for it(Something about being out of date). I had to take home here where it commands a distinguished place on my bookshelf.
Ah, yup, this is exactly the info I was looking for. When he said chopping, I thought he was talking about low and high pass frequency filters, which didn't make sense for obvious reasons.
Thanks much!