Constructing a Home Recording Studio on a Small Budget?

Pinball Wizard asks: "I would like to put together a home music studio. When it comes to keyboards, effects, and other electronic goodies, the choices seem pretty straightforward. But when it comes to guitar and recording other analog instruments and voices, the world of home recording seems bewildering. What are the best ways of recording analog sounds onto hard disk? I'm a lot more interested in a clever technical solution that costs less than $1,000 than I am taking out a loan and buying ProTools for $10,000 or more. What are the different pieces of equipment (microphones, preamps, etc) that are needed to do this well?"

Comments

Find someone nearby.

[Anonymous Coward]

Find someone nearby who has a home recording studio.

Ask their advice.

Use their equipment to see if it works for you.

Perhaps suggest collaborating, or sharing equipment, or combining budgets.

Then go back in the night and rob them.

Re:Find someone nearby.

[BenLambert]

First of all, do everything digital. As soon as you mic anything go straight to digital. That being said, do not waste your money on MonsterCables or anything, a digital signal is digtal and is the same reagrdless of the cable. Once you get into digital, the are no issues except staying digital, unless you want to edit the sound, add effects, etc. The analog/acoustic side of things is a whole different story. I am no acoustics expert, but if I understand correctly, you just want to record the instrument and nothing else. So, you need to dampen all reflections in the room. You will need to find out where to put various mics. This will also depend whether you are recording a singles instrument or mixing many. If just a single instrument, you will probably want to record in stereo. After researching as much as posssible, the best solution is to do a little experimentation. A double-blind test, is fool-proof. Good luck.

It would be helpful

[Stone Rhino]

to know what research you have already done, what resources you have looked at, and whether you have done the obligatory Google search.

Re:It would be helpful

[Pinball Wizard]

Well, my subject line was changed a bit, so it looks like I need broad information on constructing a studio, but really, all I asked for was some pointers on recording analog sounds like guitar, drums, and vocals onto hard disk.

I've found cards with 24bit/96kHz specs for under $200 yet other cards with the same specs(maybe more I/O options) that sell for $800 or more. So I'm really trying to find people who have the experience to know what to buy and what not to buy from the point of getting the most bang for the buck.

So basically, my question is: how do I record analog sounds to my PC with the highest quality possible at a reasonable price?

Re:It would be helpful

[Chris Johnson]

Avoid game cards. There's a recent Sound Blaster (Audigy?) that freaking _resamples_ all audio that passes through it to 48K and back again- insanity! When I was researching a new sound card purchase what I was hearing was: MAudio Delta (cheapest- Audiophile 2496, which I ended up getting- has Linux drivers, apparently!), Echo Layla, Echo Gina etc. If you want to get hardcore, RME Hammerfall. How many inputs do you need, what kind of breakout box, etc?

Come up with some prospective names and do a google _news_ search to see what people are saying about such cards in, say, rec.audio.pro. DON'T go by what you can find on the Web or on 'reviews'...

Re:It would be helpful

[clifyt]

Dude, few of the Under $200 cards are REALLY going to give you 24 bit. They MAY record at 96k, but the noise floor of these things will effective lower the bit level to something much less.

Then again, I generally go with the Echo or MAudio cards, some of which WILL fit the under $200 budget.

I've seen suggestions of SoundBlasters...the minute you hear ANYONE suggest a SB for ProAudio on ANY budget, you can discount their advice on anything else. Still the one guy makes mention of the Mackie vs. Behringer...for my money, Behringer makes a damn good board. Its all Chinese manufacturing and done very inexpensively, BUT it isn't cheap. I played with their new board at NAMM a few weeks back and I'm kinda regressing my higher end Tascam board.

As another guy mentioned and is entirely on -- Hosa IS crap for most work (unless you are a plug and forget person that doesn't move equipment) and Monster sucks big time...for christ sakes, they sell ETHERNET Monster cables and try to tell us that the gold plating and unoxidized cable makes digital audio downloaded over the internet sound better. I don't care HOW cheap Monster is, I will never buy their products after that crap.

Anywho, this is NOT something that should be asked on Slashdot. Geeks like to look at specs and buy according to those (yeah, I double duty as a geek in both the Music Industry AND in a day job that is slowly becoming more of a hobby as my music stuff paid more last year than my university research). Look on Usenet or one of the most excellent websites out their like ProRec or even a site like my own -- http://sonikmatter.com. My site ISN'T geared towards a lot of the things you are looking into, but if ya decide to use Proaudio software such as Logic Audio, it WILL be the place to learn about these as well as building a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation).

Find a forum (NOT /.) and ask the same question there.

As a side note, I am actually taking a break from working on my latest DAW. Its a midrange audio box...just threw a 1.8Ghz and a decent server Motherboard into a box with 512M of memory (will expand to 1.5G as soon as I get other things tweaked). Matrox dual 450 card - great for audio work as its stable and doesn't screw with the PCI bus as most gaming cards will. Echo Darla...this isn't going to be recording more than a stereo pair in, BUT will need to use all 8 outputs occasionally. UW SCSI is a must on this box, I need at LEAST 64 tracks internal before grouped to 8. Gigasampler, Reaktor and Logic Audio Platinum 5 will be installed on this in the next week (as soon as 5 gets here). So far, it has cost me about $800 and most of this box is new (except for the software which was sent to me for beta testing and reviews and the older SCSI stuff that I've pulled out of servers as I upgrade them). Add about $800 for the high end audio software (and there ARE a lot that are lower range and will do what ya need).

You CAN do this on a budget, but ya have to plan everything out and watch Pricewatch / Pricegrabber like a hawk and make sure you get EXACTLY what you planned on, not just what ever might work...audio is picky about what ya put in your machine...especially if you are appreciative of stability. Windows CAN be stable...hardware is mostly the same, its drivers by irreputable companies that keep it from being stable.

Thats enough of my sharing...read what ya can and get an idea from that. Check out the websites and check on Usenet.

clif - sonikmatter.com

Re:It would be helpful

[megabeck42]

If you're doing digital input and output, remember that the soundcard is now acting as a glorified serial port. The MAudio Delta 2448, for example, is a C-Media 8738, and the MAudio Delta 2496 is an Envy24. The EMU10K1, which powers all the versions of the live, resamples all output to 48khz - it does hurt the output. The CMI-8738, on the other hand, can output at 32khz, 44.1khz, and 48khz without a problem. The best thing is, you can purchase some C-Media cards, with decent (not midiman quality, however) drivers and optical + coxial S/PDIF in/out ports for around $40. The Midiman MAudio Delta 2448 is still around $200.

Don't necessarily avoid game cards - but, shop around and evaluate your needs. I'd trust seperate, individual ADC/DAC pairs coupled to a $40 CMI-8738 over a $200 analog soundcard by itself. (note, the ADCs/DACs themselves may cost more than $200 - but, the point is the sound card itself is secondary.)

But, most definately read what other people have to say about different cards.

Re:It would be helpful

[Pembers]

One thing that your extra $$ get you on the higher-end cards is better analogue electronics, and better A-to-D converters. (OK, two things ;-)

Though I don't set much store by manufacturers' specifications (too many unknowns in the testing conditions, and too many opportunities to quote only the favourable measurements), it's worth noting the signal-to-noise ratio and dynamic range of the analogue inputs. The theoretical maximum dynamic range of an A-to-D converter is 6dB per bit, so the maximum for a 24-bit input is 144dB. The analogue section of a cheap card might only have a dynamic range of 100dB, which would mean that the bottom 8 bits of your 24-bit samples would effectively be random noise.

Bear in mind that the mic inputs on most soundcards are fairly horrible, existing mainly for people who want to run NetMeeting or taunt their opponents in Unreal Tournament. If you don't already have something that can bring a microphone level signal up to line level, expect to spend a couple of hundred dollars on a decent preamp. You may see gadgets known as voice channels, which are mic preamps with one or sometimes two inputs, usually having a compressor and maybe some equalisation. A compressor is pretty much essential when you record digitally, because you get clipping (severe distortion) if your signal goes above maximum volume. A compressor keeps the signal below the maximum, while still allowing the loud bits to seem loud.

Something else to consider, if the audio specs appear to be similar or identical, is how many inputs you actually need. Will you be recording a band, or just yourself? If it's just you, you can probably get by with a single stereo input. If it's a band, you'll probably need an input for each instrument or singer, plus at least 3 for the drums (two overheads, plus one for the bass drum). Of course, you can record a band by plonking a stereo mic in front of them, or by routing their instruments into an analogue mixer that then goes into the soundcard, but you then greatly limit your options for mixing or overdubbing. And the cost of a separate mixer is probably comparable to the what you'd pay for the extra inputs on the soundcard. You could record each band member separately on one stereo input, but you then lose a lot of the chemistry and emotion that comes (should come) from their playing together as a band.

I suppose the most important question has to be: are you recording music for your own amusement, or because you want to get a record deal? If it's the former, just go with whatever sounds good to you, and sod what anyone else thinks. If it's the latter, it's got to sound as good as possible. Too many A&R people these days lack the musical know-how to imagine what a finished CD will sound like, having heard just a rough demo of it, so the closer to a releasable product your recordings sound, the better. (I think this is one reason the music industry is in such a mess at the moment, but that's the way it is...)

Blatant plug: you can hear "bedroom recordings" in RealAudio of four songs of mine here. I wouldn't hold them up as shining examples of songwriting, musicianship or audio engineering, but they should give you some idea of what's possible. There's a kit list at the bottom of the page, although the computer I used was a much lower spec than the one listed. The first song, Ambiguity, was recorded digitally, while the others were first recorded on four-track cassette and later transferred into the computer. Hope this helps.

Re:It would be helpful

[gordguide]

All you really need is:
Good Software. Spark ME is free, and will get you going but you will come up against it's limits pretty quickly (does 24/96 though). Expect to spend a few bucks on your digital SW. For budget software needs, go here:
http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/

A good (don't even think soundblaster) sound card. I like products from RME but others have mentioned pro-level alternaltives at lower prices.

Good microphones; you can start with just one but you will be buying more as time goes on. A good mic stand can be had fairly cheap, used.

Good cables. The poster who mentioned a Belden catalog and a soldering iron is on the right track. You really don't need to buy cable premade and these skills will save you money for the rest of your life.

You might be able to meet your budget if you're careful.

Low budget home recording studio

[Metrollica]

There is a book on Amazon here that might be what you're looking for.

Book Description
Practical guidance in the design, construction, and operation of your own affordable acoustics studio. Every aspect of designing and building an audio studio is fully discussed: floor plans, control rooms, wall and ceiling treatments, reverberation time, air conditioning, noise considerations, and more! The authors carefully describe procedures, necessary equipment, likely cost, and possible design parameters. Emphasis is placed on low cost studios designed with your specific needs in mind. From studio plans, sound lock and acoustical treatment, to studio proportions and noise factors, this revised edition provides everything needed to:Set up a listening room, a recording studio, and a control room.Achieve good sound in a listening room, a recording studio, and a control room.Control background noise in these rooms.Make acoustical measurements. Learn how the new type RPG diffusors work. Use the new Tube Traps and more.

If you don't want to buy a book, look at this site that explains how to use a PC in a homestudio.

Another few sites are here here and here.

Hope that helps.

Re:Low budget home recording studio

[nerdmusic]

I have this book, but I don't really recommend it.. it does have bunches and bunches of ideas but its a bit to much I think.

this is a much more useful book. basic home studio design. Which is by Paul White, who does many of books in the series.. I recommend them all, they are great to get your feet wet or just for a reference.

this is also a good ref at studiocovers.com, they have alot of links to useful information.

I've spent the last 7 months building a studio in my basement. Its been fun building.. I hope to have some pics up at chazmadar.com in the furture.

Equipment Providers

[phpAbUser]

I work as the technical director for an internet radio station (Brentwood Radio.com), and we have been doing the Digital->Analog/Analog->Digital thing for some time.
The equipment I suggest you acquire varies on what sorts of sounds you want to record.

• Obviously you'll need a good sound card, Creative's Sound Blaster Live! is comparitvely cheap for the value you get.
• You'll need good microphones, also (it's amazing the difference quality makes). Nice mikes will let you record any instrument, electric or not. I would suggest the company Shure.
• Next on your list would be a mixer, I would highly suggest Mackie boards, and for slightly cheaper tastes the Behringer line.
• Another key component is good cabling. It's tempting to just run over to Radio Shack and buy what you need... but I've found those cables to have crappy shielding, almost no jacket, and die after about 2 years. I would suggest Hosa cables, or, if you have extra cash, Monster cables.
• Lastly you might think of getting a headphone matrix. This is mainly useful if you want to record a band/mutiple people at once. It allows you to amplify the sound a person is making back to them.Also it will allow you to have 6+ headphones w/o splitting the signal.

Well, that's all I have to offer.

-Mark
P.S. Actually one more note, don't jerry rig things unless you really need to.

Re:Equipment Providers

[ktakki]

All in all, this is pretty good advice.

But...

I would suggest Hosa [hosatech.com] cables, or, if you have extra cash, Monster [monstercable.com] cables.

I think you bracketed the solution here. I've found Hosa cables, particularly their snakes, cheap, noisy, and prone to failure. Conversely, the Monster stuff is expensive and overkill. I'm not sure their buzzword-laden technology even works as they claim.

My advice would be to seek a middle ground: buy Belden cable and good connectors (Neutrik or Switchcraft) in bulk and get a good soldering iron. Knowing how to solder is pretty a useful skill for a recording engineer. You'll also save money, for a small tradeoff of time and effort. Plus, when your bassist trips over his cable and rips the jack out of his instrument, you'll get to be a hero.

So far as snakes go, Whirlwind makes pretty good gear. I've built my own snakes and they're a pain in the ass to do. If your setup is small enough, you can even get by without one. Just keep your runs short and don't bundle the cables too tight.

k.

Re:Equipment Providers

[Garak]

If you want pro results you will be smart to stay away from consumer soundcards like the soundblasters and get something built for recording from echo or M-Audio.

Don't bother with the Headphone matrix mixer, get a mackie or behringer board with lots of prefader aux sends and a multi channel headphone amp.

Don't go with a mic just because it has the shure name on it. The 57's and 58's are the standards for live sound and they get their rep for being almost indistructable and having a known sound. Check out the studio projects line of mics, the Marshall electronics mics and the Rode. All of these companies sell mics made in china which is usually a bad thing but they seem to have pretty good quality control and good designs. The mics sell a hell of a lot less than their American made and european counter parts(shure, neumann, etc...)

Do what my neighborhood band did

[Beowulf_Boy]

Go buy 4-5 SB live's.
Buy some mixing software and have fun.

start with midi

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are going to lay down the rhythm and some
other tracks with midi equipment sort of like how
people use bandinabox biab or jammer then the
next step before recording analog tracks is to
convert the midi to wave format this can be handy
to play along to when you dont have a computer
say in your cars cd player. Timidity can convert midi to wave
and then you can burn to cd. Here is the command line.

timidity -Ow -s44.1Khz backingtrack.mid

I have used this extensively to convert midi to
wave. Lots more detail on the man page.

For miking into the sound card most mikes will need a preamp and probably a mixer.
Check out the audiobuddy from midiman for
an inexpensive preamp.

go to www.homerecording.com and try again

[ruebarb]

www.homerecording.com has an entire discussion forum related to computer mixing/mastering...including computers and the soundcards.

Re:go to www.homerecording.com and try again

[ameoba]

www.sonicstate.com has some good stuff as well. There are a -lot- of places more well suited to finding out about this. As far as comming out with something usable for $1000, good luck. Music gear is sickly overpriced and depreciates slowly, so buying used doesn't even help -that- much.

While going with the 'leet Protools setup might be overboard (even though they have a basic 8-track version available for free) there are some things that you really can't skimp on. A solid multi-IO soundcard and a -good- MIDI interface are key components. So are good microphones and monitor speakers (trust me. Even the nicest PC speakers just don't compare to a cheap set of reference speakers for mixing). Just those components alone will set you back a grand, and that's before buying the computro.

Pro Tools LE and digi001

[djn]

You might want to check out Digidesign's Digi 001. For $1000, you get Pro Tools LE (essentially equivalent to the full Pro Tools version with some limitations that you will probably not run into anyways) and a nice offboard unit for connecting equipment. Of course, you do need mics and whatnot, but this is a very nice start with (almost) all the power of Pro Tools.

-Dan
unixpunx.org - punks, computers, intelligence

Um, dude...

[Wakko Warner]

My Neumanns alone cost $1400. What do you plan to record on a $1000 budget? Do you want it to sound good? Are you going to attempt multitracking without something like Peak, Paris, or Protools? Please think about what you're trying to do and realize that, sometimes, you *really do* need to spend money on things.

There is no Linux pro audio solution. There is no Open Source microphone preamplifier. You can not do more with less in some hobbies. A SM57 is cheap and it sounds it; there's no magic way to change it.

- A.P.

Re:Um, dude...

[pyite]

And those are cheap Neumanns. LOL. KM184s or something similar I take it?

Re:Um, dude...

[Garak]

Your Neumanns are over priced.

There are lots of mics for under $300 right now that sound just as good as any Neumanns.

The Studio Projects C1 I have sounds alot like the u87. Many people who have reviewed it like it more and are shocked when they find out its only $229.

The m-audio Audiobuddy is the best preamp under $1000 in alot of peoples books and it only cost $79.

The SM-57 is an ok mic. Most of its fame comes from how much abuse it can take and still sound the same.

There are a few mics that are around the price of a SM-57 that sound really good. The marshall electronics MXL603 is one of them. Its a Small condensor mic.

N-track studio is starting to mature and its under $100, Cool edit pro has been around for a while and I use it in the studio all the time, its around $200 I think. You can certianly multitrack with that software.

The M-audio Audiophile 24/96 soundcards are only $150. Thats 24bit 96khz and they sound way better than the Soundblaster soundcards. Their Delta soundcards are a little more pro with balanced +4 inputs.

Pro studio quality gear is now becoming within reach of the hobbest.

Re:Um, dude...

[Wakko Warner]

KM140s actually; imported (grey market) from musiciansgear.

- A.P.

Re:Um, dude...

[pyite]

Hey, didn't you get a CTD 8000 working with the audio dat software for solaris under linux? If so I'd like to know if you had to patch the code to do it. -Thanks

Re:Um, dude...

[gordguide]

"... Your Neumanns are over priced. There are lots of mics for under $300 right now that sound just as good as any Neumanns. ..."

Well, they might be overpriced but I know a few people who would pay twice as much for them, if that's what it took.

I have heard a lot of very good albums made without the benifit of a studio ribbon, but I have also heard CDs essentially remade after a group signs a contract. Compare the (very good) Indy release with Sony Music's release, and you can hear the Neumanns do their magic, believe me.

I have always used mikes from Sennheiser, AKG and Beyer Dynamic as well as a few others.

I agree that the Marshall is a good compromise (and of course every mic is a compromise). In my opinion, the Shure SM-57/58's are pure road gear, though.

Re:Um, dude...

[Wakko Warner]

Yes, I did. Basically, all that needs to be done is a little rewrite of part of the linux SCSI tape driver code to enable it to recognize audio DATs. The DATlib software comes with 2.0 linux patches, but I was running 2.2 at the time. I ended up porting the patches for 2.0 to 2.2. Basically, for 2.2, they rewrote the entire st driver and changed a lot of the function/syscall names, and so the port/patching mostly involved renaming stuff in the original patch (a lot of source code comparison.) In the end, it worked fine.

The DATlib software itself now seems to be maintained by Wayne Hoxsie; he has modified it to work (better, I imagine) with Linux. You can get it here.

My setup and where it's going...

[cmowire]

So my last album was recorded in 16 bit/44kHz off of a Soundblaster AWE64 Gold. Not the greatest audio performance, but better than the 48kHz resampled SB Live.

You should have one or two pieces of analog gear. You probably want to have a mixer, especially if you want to record drums. Mackies are a safe bet and are not much more than the generic stuff. I used to be able to borrow a Mackie, but that's on my list of things to buy.

It's also extremely convenient to have an external compressor or two. I have two compressors and that's more than enough, but I don't do drums.

You want to make sure that your inputs (i.e. the sound card and mic) and the outputs (i.e. the speakers) are of good quality. So make sure you get a good set of studio monitor speakers, a good pair of headphones, and a good sound card. That's been covered already by other people. A new Echo card that does 24/96kHz is also on my list of toys to buy.

Guitar/Bass Multi FX processors are your friend. At least, if you do my kind of music. Last time, I borrowed a digitech processor. Now I own one. The speaker simulators are much less trouble than a real amp.

You probably want to go to a music store and pick out a microphone in person. But you want at least one good vocal mic. If you have an instrument other than a guitar/bass, i.e. a piano or a violin or something, pick up a good instrument mic, too. Shure SM57s are a good bet for instrument mics, but you can probably do better if you look.

You don't need an outboard FX processor, except for guitar/bass FX units. Most good multitracking programs have most of the FX you need built in.

Now, as far as saving money, you are going to end up spending at least $500 on a good set of monitor speakers, either self-powered or speakers and a power amp. Your audio card is at least $400. Your mixer is $400. Your guitar processor is $200-400. Your mics are going to be $200-400. All in all, it'll probably be closer to $2000.

Which is a little much. Most people accumulate things over time. So you don't bother with a mixer right off, just plug a SM57 into your input port. Maybe you already own a guitar processor. Skip out on good monitors and switch between computer speakers and your headphones for the time being. You get the picture.

Minidisc

[Nater]

A friend of mine does a lot of home recording. He records using a stereo microphone plugged into a minidisc player/recorder. Later, he plays the disc back into his computer and captures it to wav format, which he then mucks with using various tools (audigy comes to mind), and finally convert it to ogg and mp3. You can listen to some of it here. His stuff doesn't go through much production after it's recorded so a lot of it is very raw sounding, but if I read your question correctly, you've already got that part figured out and you're just looking for a way to get the sound waves into the computer. This works pretty well.

Kit list for $1000...

[Manic Miner]

My brother is the real expert (eg. actually qualified in these things) but here's my best shot:

• Sound card with audio in, soundblasters are ok - if you get a good one I know about 10 people with an SB live, some are great, some are noisy as hell. If you get a noisy one I suggest you take it back and get a swap - $40
• Small mixer, something like a Sprit notepad is just fine for small applications, it has a few mic channels and a stereo in.. Ideal for small time recording - $200
• A good general purpose microphone, I agree with a shure, probably a SM58 is a good starting point - $90
• A mic cable, most of these will be pretty standard - $12
• A mic stand, essential - $30
• Audio samplign software, cool edit pro is very good, and you can try it shareware first - $400
• Misc connection cables - $50

Total: $822

This should give you a good start.. however you will also need some decent speakers - monitor speakers not just your hi-fi ones - and an appropriate amp for them. You could start with your hi-fi stuff but you need to something better pretty soon. I don't know if you were looking for something more than this for $1000 but this would be a good starting point. All I can say is that this is an expensive game, but very fun ;)

Great Timing

[ScumBiker]

This article couldn't have come at a better time, since we're buying a new house with enough room for me to dedicate to a home studio. W00T! I've decided to buy a 12-track Behringer mixer at first and dump that to the HD of a Win98 or Win2k box. SM57's for my amps. Soundforge and Acid for mixing, Cakewalk for writing midi sequences and drums, although I'll probably use a ton of Acid loops for drums and other rythyms at first. Later, I'm going to get the Digi 001 w/ ProTools le and probably a Mac tower. Not sure about the Mac though.

My preference would be to do all this stuff in Linux. No, I haven't looked around much yet, I'd like to get some wisdom from here. I know I will burn my cd's from an existing Redhat box with my burner on it.

I spoke of drums earlier. I'm a guitarist not a drummer (hence the house... :)). I really don't know shit about drum patterns and how to creatively write them. Some good resources for that would be way cool.

Re:Great Timing

[afidel]

Do yourself a favor and get Reason from Propellerhead for the loops. Reason is basically a loop studio in a box, and a whole lot more. It's cheap and very versatile. Oh yeah, and I would highly recomend win2k for the OS. A year ago I would not have said that, but things seem to be much better now. Not crashing during a recording session will save you much grief. Get an audigy and use the ASIO drivers, 4ms latency is wonderfull.

Punt Soundblaster

[wfrp01]

Creative makes boards for games. Not for serious audio.

I happen to prefer M-Audio, because of their broad platform support: http://www.midiman.com/products/digital.php.

Their low-end card (Audiophile 2496) is cost-competitive with Creative's high end, and would probably do you very nicely.

You'll see most pro gear moving the D/A stuff external to the computer, to reduce noise.

the one most important word here is....

[raindog2]

Outboard.

Seriously, whether you buy a $16 sound card with SPDIF jacks and a used Minidisc recorder for A/D, or a full fledged USB outboard A/D and mixer (another link in case ebay flakes), that is the single thing you can do to most improve analog recordings on your PC.

Physically isolating your PC to reduce fan noise is also something you need to do if you're doing something with a microphone. But as soon as you get your signal into digital you're free of generation loss and noise. I can't emphasize the importance of outboard recording enough.

Recording Guitar? You can do it under 1g.

[dokterneo]

Buy: Line6 P.O.D. 2.0 $299 2 midi cables $10 Snd blster audigyPlat $200 Cubase VST $350-600 The pod is the best thing since sliced bread. You can emulate 32 different amps and 12 different cabinet designs. It has both balanced and unbalanced outputs as well as fully midi programmable. You can use sounddiver software or patch wizard to do this. And it also has all the cool effects. I don't care what anybody says, the soundblaster audigy kicks ass. The cubase vst ASIO driver delivers true 2ms digital recording with the audigy dsp. The older soundblasters do about 48ms at best. So with the audigy, you get almost realtime digital timings. Get the plat as the front 5.25" panel has real midi, digital, rca, and dynamic mic inputs, as well as a cool remote control... :) Cubase rulz. There is a "lite" version that comes with the plat. They call is Cubasis. Get the pro one. It has mucho features. Oh, and did I mention it has tru 16/24/32 bit recording?

Used

[bluGill]

Look for a recording studio that is going out of buisness and attend their auction. Sometimes you can get deals, soemtimes not. (Don't pay too much)

Most cities have some hole in the wall used recording equipment place. Find them.

Don't be afraid to go analog. Avoid making extra generation copies, and you will be fine. Those old reel-reel tapes are good, better than CDs until you get too many generations out of them. (with good tape, and otherwise good habits to keep it good) In fact my understanding is a lot of professionals have given up on digital for mixing, and they often will use analog recording. The big advantage of analog as it has been a known quality for years, you can find perfectly good equipemnt for the 1960s that will work, though modern stuff might be better quality.

Re:Used

[tom's a-cold]

A word of caution-- reel-to-reel tapes are actually quite a lot worse than the best CDs. Signal/noise for current Ampex studio master multitrack analog tape is 64.8 dB. Digital recording with a good A/D converter, if it's true 16-bit (not just byte size, but actual resolution), would give you 96 dB. And people can generally perceive a difference of as little as 3 dB in signal/noise (I know because I've tested this). There are other noise and distortion sources in the signal chain, both on record and on playback, so your actual figures will be worse than that (which is one of the reasons that some CDs sound so crappy compared to old studio tape). The other reason is that recording engineers in those days knew how to mix and master so that the noise and distortion were less noticeable.

The other thing with tapes is to beware of media cost. Multitrack reel-to-reel is very costly compared to CDR or even DAT tape.

One way to save money on digital is to consider the added value of 24-bit versus 16-bit technologies. Theoretical max signal-noise for 16-bit is about 96 dB. The very best 24-bit analog/digital converters give about 103 dB s/n (ignore the phony "A-weighted" number), and 95 dB THD+N (a more perceptually relevant noise figure that includes total harmonic distortion). That is, really not much better than 16 bits: 103 dB is under 18 bits. The only big gain in having 24 bits versus 16 is that you get some guard digits that are helpful when doing long, iterative calulations, such as the ones that happen in digital reverbs or some kinds of SFX; also handy when doing lots of sub-mixes. But 16-bit digital technology is far less costly and not much worse in terms of actual sound quality. And some mixing and FX software tacks on the guard digits anyway.

Check out:

[jdevons]

Check out OwnerBuilderBook.com

Some basics...

[gordguide]

Repeat after me:
Pro is pro, and consumer is consumer.

Ignore specs, numbers, "just as good as...", "same as [insert expensive gear] but costs only..."

Pro gear always exceeds it's specs, under all or nearly all conditions. It probably has good, stable power supplies that typically cost more to make than the "just as good as.. " product does all together. Build quality and component selection is done to impress a knowledgable and discerning crowd, not to look like a good deal at Best Buy.

It is usually rugged where it needs to be; but it could be quite fragile if that makes better sound, because it is assumed Pro users know how to treat it.

Some pro gear is made to go into a rack and sit there for it's lifetime, and some gear is made so drunks can load it into a too-small van at 4 AM and it still works the next night 300 miles away. (No attempt to portray roadies/musicians as drunks; I'm sure sober furniture movers and any respectable airline could also serve to test ruggedness). Good road gear and good studio gear are usually not the same, so don't assume you want what a live band uses. Some very famous microphones are popular because Punk Rockers can't break them even though they don't sound all that great, and some sound fantastic but will spontaneosly explode if you look at them funny. But, you need good microphones, and it's an unwritten law that you can't have too many.

There is nothing wrong with Analog; but Digital is the way of the future. Because of this, you may fit your budget and get better sound by picking up used Analog gear.

You will hear a lot if opinions about what to use and whether Analog is junk or Digital is 'da bomb but for the most part Digital is done poorly (it's consumer gear) and the good stuff is very pricy. Get the good stuff if you can afford it (about $500 or so for your sound card, and you're just beginning).

Don't pay too much attention to S/N for your recording media (assuming you are using good stuff, not a cassette deck) because anything better than 60+ db (without noise reduction) is fine, provided you don't play with it much (overdubs, bouncing tracks, etc).

16-bit digital boasts 30+ db better, but the reality is everybody will be playing your music back with gear that doesn't give you more than about 40 db of dyamic range and typically a LOT less, sometimes less than 3db. Very good playback systems sound excellent with material that has a -60 db noise floor, and 90% of your music will be played back on boombox level gear, at best.

Don't buy NEW digital gear that doesn't support 24-bit/96Khz at a minimum. If you can go 24/96+, then you're on your way to overcome the majority of problems Digital had over Analog so there's no need to worry about which format to use. 16-bit Digital wins some, loses some when it comes to sound quality over Pro Analog.

Get some good speakers and some cheap speakers, and mix/master/produce so it sounds good on both. Use Pro speakers or one of the few consumer models pro's use.

I strongly recommend finding/talking to/hanging out with people who have already done this and do it seriously. They made a lot of mistakes and so will you, but you will make far fewer than if you try to do this on your own.

If you're broke, Stereo is the only way to go. You can't afford 5 of everything.

Well

[thefatz]

Consider Whirlwind cables and snakes, and also forget about the behringer. The Mackies have great preamps for the Mics, which up against a behringer is like light and day.

MOTU

[kfs27]

if yer using a mac or pc for hardware i would go with MOTU...they have a few firewire audio interfaces that have 8 or 12 tracks of digital audio over one firewire cable!

midiman makes the quattro which is USB 4 tracks in and out for 350 dollars

software wise....cakewalk makes the best stuff for a pc probably....

mac i'd use digital performer....

pro tools is awesome, but expensive. keep in mind that digidesign just put out some brandy dandy new system so prices may be dropping on the older stuff.

have fun and good luck

it's not the gear, it's the ear

[kfs27]

SM57 is one of the best dam mikes every made....it's about the preamp...

a good preamp can make a 57 sound as good as a neuman, so imagine what a neuman thru a good pre will sound like...

obviously he knows he's not doing pro records, pro tools is only needed when yer doing lots of tracks....for 8-16 tracks MOTU or other companie's stuff can do just fine....it all comes down to your ears. a crappy compressor in the right pair of EARS is better than the best vintage tube compressor in the hands of a rookie. buying decent gear and learning how to use it is the key

Welcome to Goldenrecordland

[penas]

My favorite setup now will goes as follow: One Mesa Boogie Mark4, for guitars or Fender Twin Reverb, used w/new tubes) Two Countryman Direct Boxes, used, for bass/ direct guitar One TLA Audio (or equivalent) stereo tube preamp and compressor, used - only real pro gear badly needed. Refit them with new tubes. One Mackie board, it cames in many sizes, suit yourself, it will work ok. Some mikes, allways in pairs: SM 57s - for dirty sounds, little AKG or Sony lapels - for clear sounds, maybe a couple of CAD350s, best buy in big sounding mics. Booms to fit. Do a little search for a new USB external audio converter, they are being released just now and do sound ok, - I'm assuming you want to do music, not practice for recording engineer, right? so you will go for recording tracks in pairs, stereo drums, stereo choir, so this is the way to go, easy and two chanel at a time. Go USB, 96Khz internal samplig rate, import in 44.1 for the HD. Don't buy ProTools. Get it Free. Download a 8 channel fully working version. The Beatles used to have 4 channels only, you can bounce them. Record in it, Mix in it, Edit in it. Get a monster Athlon, 1Gb minimum for a ride, a 9200 ATA100 60Gb and the best golden Cds you can find. Have fun. Get an audience: Leave it up 24/7 as your personal music server to the world.

My current setup..

[sid_vicious]

I'm just running a SoundBlaster on a dedicated PC. I've got my old Digitech RP-1 preamp/multieffects running into a Behringer mixer (four mono and four stereo channels) which cost me about $200. If I ever get around to it, I intend to add a Line6 Bass POD to do my bass effects, and a Roland V-Club electric drum kit.

Oh, and of course, I've GOT to have a Gibson Les Paul Custom to replace my old Ibanez 350EX.

I've also got an old Peavey microphone that does a pretty decent job with vocals (maybe $80) - but since I don't sing, that hasn't been a problem.
I'm running Cool Edit Pro on the PC. Great for multitrack recording, but don't rely on it for effects.

All in all, it's a pretty decent setup for the almost-nothing it cost me to put together. It's certainly not a professional solution, but it's probably more along the lines of what you're looking for.

Digisal out of the gate is dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok. First off, digital is cool but guess what, analog is better. Go and find any real audiophile and get yourself a good explanation of the difference between analog and digital and why analog will ALWAYS beat digital. First off, analog captures all the sounds within the hearing range ( and many that aren't), while digital mearly samples pieces of that frequency. You wind up losing things. Period. The problem is that most people have beocme lazy and are used to crappy analog euqipment. Before you even think of recording digitally, try getting a good set of speakers ( start at $1000 and go up from there), then get your self a Class A amp for a true soundstage. Then get yourself a good set of mikes, A Mackie 24 channel board, and Tape Machine. Then start worring about digitally mastering. You probably will be able to get it done for about $12,000. Digital is cool for finishing and shaping, but when it comes to getting the full range of sounds down for your music, analog is THE ONLY WAY TO GO.

Re:Digisal out of the gate is dumb

[BenLambert]

On the contrary, just about every audiophile's philsophy is to stay in the digital domain for as long as possible. There are of course those few who still prefer their record players to CDs because, like you say "analog sounds better." Mathematically, you should be right, the more samples the better the sound. The only way to really tell is a double blind test. That is, you can't know which one you're listening to when comparing, just A vs B. The fact is, you can try for yourself, you can not tell the difference between 44k sampled CDs and analog. SACD claims to have "better sound" because they sample 192k/sec, but try it again, you still CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

Once you have convinced yourself that there is no audible difference, there is the issue of interference. There is NO interference or noise when using digital signals, you get out exactly what you put in. Likewise, noise is inevitable in analog. Bottom line, stay in digital for as long as possible.

Do not waste your money on fancy, expensive analog equipment. You probably just need a DAT or two. Your biggest concerns are going to be in the recording room itself, damping reflections, and keeping out other noise.

Pay for Cool Edit? Wow.

[ahfoo]

How about Goldwave if you're going to go with cheap windows stuff. I think it's thirty bucks if you register.
I'll just pitch-in in on the low end side of things here because I have audiophiles in my own family and I just have to speak up when I hear this stuff about how you've just GOT to spend gobs of money.
I do voice recordings at home and they sound just as good as what we used to get from a studio and we use nothing but the way far extreme cheapest stuff. I'm talking generic on-board sound chips and $30 200watt karaoke special amps that have basically the same form factor as car stereo amps. You can have three of those and plenty of speakers and mics for less than two hundred bucks brand new from an electronics store.
Despite using nothing but the cheapest of the cheap, we get awesome voice recordings straight to disk that we used to pay bucks for in the studio and they made us pay extra for a CD instead of tape. Screw those guys. The real trick has already been mentioned several times and that's the part about amping the mic. This tip took me forever to figure out --ie which patch cords to use and what went where-- but once I got it going, boy was I impressed. Excellent range and a full sound just like we used to expect from the studio, but the cost is less than a few hundred bucks for the works and it doubles as my home stereo so the cost is insignificant. Yeah, even a five dollar mic, sounds great, once it's got some power on it. The real question becomes, how does your voice sound?
And as for having the rad monitors. Well, jeez this is almost as bad as the ignorance about amping the mic. But since we're assuming the poster is truly just getting started, I'll just say what the audiophiles out there will assume is too obvious to mention and that is: you can split the output from the sound card just using patch cords with Y splitters into multiple amps. So, now that you've split your bass, midrange and highs into appropriate homemade cabinets with appropriate cheapo crossovers you're in for some sweet low distortion high powered sound. I'm telling you getting the simple stuff all straightened out first --ie, how to wire amps in and out of a PC intelligently-- is certainly worth doing first. If you get all your existing/cheapo stuff setup right and you're still not satisfied then go ahead and start upgrading. But I wouldn't rush out and start asking opinions on audiophile newsgroups till I at least tried to get as far as I could with what I had. You might find you've already got everything you need, you just haven't hooked it up in the best way.
Personally, I managed to convince a rather picky customer of ours who insisted we had to do our voice recordings in the studio. I let him choose two copies of the same recording, one done in the studio and one done at my house. Sure enough, he chose mine because I simply had a cleaner, more dynamic sound than this studio was offering and I don't even use sound blaster cards for chrisakes! What do I look like, Santa Claus? I got more important things to spend my money on heh heh heh.
Talking about cheap, I make my bass enclosures out of cement mixed up with newspapers. I shit you not. Sounds awesome. These babies will outweigh a box made of particle board anyday and they're seamless so there's no distortion even when you're beating the hell out of the woofers. These enclosures are so solid, the woofers will tear themselves apart before they'll make the box shake. I confess I made them partly to screw with my uncle who sells Home Theater systems for a hundred grand a pop, but the sound of cement kicks ass all over wood anyday.

A bit late, but FWIW....

[greysoul]

Hi, I am working with a DJ right now setting up a basement recording studio. We're finally at the stage now where we can begin recording 24 tracks with a PC. Here's exactlly what we use: (keep this in mind, you'll be tested later)

The PC:
Athlon Tbird 1.1GHz 1.2G DDR ram, asus MB
120 Gigs HD space ATA-100 (need more...)
Dual head Geforce2 MX card with 32megs per head.
M-Force Delta 1010 ASIO card
SB Live Plat. 5.1
CD-R and DVD-Rom

The Software:
E-Magic Logic
Fruityloops
Soundforge
Reaktor
CD Architect
Nero 5

The Interface:
Delta 1010 box (8/8 analog 2/2 SPDIF)
Midisport 8x8/s USB for midi input and synch

The Mixers:
Mackie/E-Magic Logic Controller
Mackie 24 track mixer
Pioneer DJM-6000, 4 tracks DJ mixer
1 - CDJ-1000
2/3 - Technic 1200 MK2 x2
4 - Soundblaster Live

The Mics:
Rode nt2 x1
Shure SM57 x3
misc cheap mics x infinity

Along with this we have a full PA with studio monitors, instruments, guitar booth, and a vocal booth. Total space is around 280 sq ft.

Now, getting to cost, this has been a work in prgress for almost 3 years, and we're just now getting to the point where we can start to produce for ourselves and for others. I have not been with the group since day 1, but in the last year or so I know we've probably put in around $10,000 and that's doing a lot of things ghetto style, and scroungeing for good deals. There are many places we cut corner in the past (mics, mixers, ASIO) that really resulted in a poor quality recording. Other places we have, and in some cases still cut corners I find to make little difference. Soundforge and Cubase are almost as good as Logic, Fruityloops can make music that will blow away a party and sound profesisonal, given time to learn how to use it, cheap $200 turntables work better with a professional head ($200) than a $800 turn table with stock heads. $400 $800 right? but a professional turntable with pro heads sounds the best, period. DO NOT cut corners on mics and pick ups, shell out a few extra bucks for performance cables, they're heavier and last longer.

There's a million things I could tell you about what I've learned in the last couple years, and it's a very exciting project. We're by far not a pro studio, but we are using some professional tools, and it makes a huge difference. You can set up to record a guitar for $500 or less, but it's not gonna sound like anything you can sell, or at least that's been my take on the issues I've run into. Good luck, and feel free to contact me by email if you have a specific question.

Doug

Soundblaster sux

[pompomtom]

Soundblaster live is a gamers card, NOT a recording card. It only records at 48khz, and does on-the-fly samplerate conversion to 44.1.... NOT GOOD.