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Using IR Lasers Instead of Fiber
Artifice_Eternity writes: "Can't deal with the trouble, time or expense of digging up the street to get fiberoptic cable to your building in the big city? There's another way...infrared line-of-sight infrared lasers between your building and another one nearby. Repeaters and redundancy can keep the chain going reliably for miles, with gigabit data transmission rates."
I don't know much about laser communications, but wouldn't things like the above cause the laser to scatter making it unusable in the above conditions? I could especially see this with rain because of the refractive properties of water. I do know my school uses this to get bandwidth, and all I have known it for is unreliability.
What about cloudy days, storms, or even ice on the windows (provided the instrument is housed)? Would these things effect bandwidth? BOFH answer #556454: You can't get your files off the server right now because the cloud cover is too thick.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
I don't think having many repeaters would be that good for latency. For gamers and more generally interactive communications a low ping is more important than huge bandwidth.
True warriors use the Klingon Google
"infrared line-of-sight infrared lasers" All products are approved by our Department of Redundancy Department. -Kevin
A number of years ago, a friend of mine was at University of Colorado. They had two computer centers which were connected by an infrared laser which was pointed out the window of one building to the other building. It had minor data loss during snowstorms, but was pretty reliable. One day the window broke, and a repair person came by and put a piece of plywood over the window until they could get a piece of glass big enough to repair it properly. He didn't understand why all the computer people started yelling at him.... after all, *he* couldn't see the invisible light beam going through the broken window :-)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
"I want sharks with frickin' infrared laserbeams attached to their frickin' heads!"
sudo eat my shorts
How is this better than a high gain antenna using radio waves? Radio waves can be focused with antennas and don't have such problems going through clouds and pidgeons that light does. If you focus the radio waves you shouldn't have problems running out of spectrum should you? For years you've been able to do wireless radio links line of sight, what advantage does using a "frickin' laser beam" give you?
...would be hacking the kernel to transmit remote control waves. Imagine the possibilities:
And if that doesn't work, you could always use it as a spare heat lamp (very desirable when running an overclocked system...)
The "repeaters" in this case can be placed indoors, in front of a window. One of the reasons for developing this system was to bypass the trouble and expense of rooftop transmitters.
And note that even in my summary I mentioned redundancy -- multiple IR beams are designed to compensate for bad atmospheric conditions -- and each hop in the network is a short distance for the same reason.
This is good for many reasons. The cost is
primarily in the one time purchase of the equipment. And it makes a lot of sense where line of sight is a shorter distance than a fibre cable must travel (tops of buildings in a congested city). These dont interfere with radio freqencies, so you don't have to concern yourself with noise, or creating noise. And its unlikely a backhoe will ever be a problem (as long as it doesn't block the line of sight).
The downside is the line of sight. You ALWAYS have to have line of sight. Rain, fog, clouds, trees, idiots with signs, they all can cause problems. Short distances are less of a concern, but you still have to maintain an almost perfect orientation. A little gust of wind can have you dropping packets.
But its probably a better solution than fibre where running fibre isn't an economically feasable solution. But no matter how good this is, fibre has far greater potential capacity, even though we don't yet have the technology to use all of it. It doesn't make sense to start building the internet backbone out of these things.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Laser Guided Surface to Air Missiles! That's what the lasers are for.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
Infrared line-of-sight links have been done for well over a decade. Datapoint's Arcnet had an infrared link device called Arclight that they used for a line-of-sight link for several miles. It would flake out in rain or fog - because rain and fog both absorb and refract infrared. So it might as well have been as opaque as black smoke.
...
Arcnet was a self-healing token ring network with an underlying broadcast topology. So if two buildings were connected by Arclight and it went down, the network split into two rings, and when it came back up it healed into a single ring. Reconfig took miliseconds so it was no big deal.
You may not have heard of Datapoint. But have probably heard of the Intel. Seems Datapoint had a discrete-component standalone computer/smart terminal which was the basic node in their network - a diskless-workstation, fileserver, compute-server archetecture. They cut a deal with a semiconductor company called Intel to try to port their instruction set to a silicon chip for the next generation. But the resulting chip was too slow, so they went with another discrete component solution.
And Intel had cut the deal so they could sell the chip. So they took the chip to market, perhaps with a few tweaks, as the 8008 - first in the line that continued with the 8080, 8086, 80x86, Pentium,
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I bet that gigabit lasers with a range of 1 km will become reasonably affordable, because there really wouldn't be much to them. Entire neighborhoods could wire themselves together without requiring permits from anyone (and maybe split the cost of a fiber connection to the internet backbone).
Yes, as many have commented this is old news. There haven't been any breakthroughs on this in several years. Let me rephrase that ... no significant breakthroughs.
...
Once a year we have a customer come to us to ask about this option. Once a year we trot out our proposal, rerun the numbers and submit it. It always comes down to two things:
1) Speed
2) Reliability
The speed of the lines is fantastic when you have a clear day and relative distance is kept. Any atmoshperic conditions out of the ordinary will kill the line. Now, if you're only interested in using it for a mail gateway or to transfer data for a nightly batch cycle it rocks. For regular WAN access you'll be answering the phone from the folks on the floor.
Reliability is a concern past the speed. Keeping the connections is sometimes more an art than science. The article does have an interesting take on parallel transmissions, but commerically available products are cost prohibitive to make it a viable alternative for most businesses.
The best line from the article is: "Transmitting lasers through the air and modulating them at gigabit rates is a new and potentially powerful development," said Dr. Daniel Leslie, a physicist at Trex Enterprises who is familiar with the new systems.
Now, if you want to see something cool check out Dr. Leslie's company web page: http://www.trexenterprises.com/laserrad.html
If only we could work a Pringles can into this
We had this at the office where I used to work. It seemed to go down on a regular basis, for a different reason every time. However, my favorite has to be the time it went down because a homeless person put a sticky note on the lens!
`fortune -o`
Utter Crap. As an Amateur Radio operator and RF design engineer, I can safely say that "wireless repeaters" don't attract lightning any more or less than any other rooftop equipment.
Also, If you're clever you could use fiberoptic feed from a source indoors, and be COMPLETELY electrically isolated from the rooftop.
Also, last time I checked, my Grandfather of 92 doesn't have a LAN in his house. (What, from the fireplace to the kitchen?)
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
laying fiber down in even a mildly metropolitan area cost around $70,000/mile no joke
Hmm, this is nothing new. You, yourself, can buy a several watt (yes watt) IR diode and modulate it using an AOM to at least 100's of Mbits a second and more very easily for under $1500. This would easily reach a target for miles if the reciver made use of a dichroic narrowband filter and some good ECC. However, as mentioned, line of sight must be maintained.
Divergence, not mentioned in the article, is also an issue. Especially with laser diodes, it doesn't matter what kind of miracle anamorphic lens system you have to decrease the divergence of the beam, becuase pretty soon that pencil thin dot is going to become several feet in diameter. THIS is what accounts to loss more than so called 'atmosphere' causes. Photodiodes/transistors operate at a power/cm^2 ratio, and the lower this is out of the rated area the more noise. So when the beam spreads out, the concentration of power thins out and you get noise because although all your signal is getting there, you can only sample a small fraction of its power. Having low divergence also works against you because it makes the system much more difficult to align. I would start with a very large beam, just enough to get a signal, and then progress to the smallest beam possible. Vibrations at the transmitter site will likely limit this, as tiny shifts in movement only a mm will cause the beam to jump several feet miles away.
Many here have mentioned the speed is on the slow side for this technology. Well, folks, this is optics and that means you can do things in parallel. If you need more speed, just shift the wavelength of the diode and multiplex it in. This is the same principle behind DWDM systems, only it's in freespace. You don't even need a fancy FB diode to do it -- most commercial diodes have a 30 nm linewidth, and by controlling the voltage and temperature you can easily shift up or down. In any case, adding another same-wavelength line is just as easy as adding another transmitter/receiver pair at either end. If only you could do that for fiber. Instead, you have to dig up the streets.
I have had the pleasure of working with a system from Coherent that really makes free space communications shine. The system automatically adjusts and aligns itself via electronic gyros and GPS. It tells you if the current location even has any type of line of sight and if it does it zeos in on the beam (e.g. "I'm pointing S-SW, can you see me?"). The hardest thing is you must have a current connection to the other end while performing the alignment, but this was easily accomidated for at my location with a cellular modem.
This stuff is really cool and there are definate applications for anywhere that has good line of sight. For example, cell towers frequently have good line of sight to one another, so this technology would make sense for that application. There are enough towers that the network could be constructed in a serial or star configuration, without the need for many land lines near the tower.
What would be even cooler would be somehow using the high voltage transmission towers and installing a small, low cost module on each one to jump from tower to tower, or even pole to pole. Since it's optical, you don't have to worry about interference or expensive shielding (yes, there are all-optical transceivers out there).
These are just some ideas but the technology itself finally seems to be maturing. There are lots of current applications and it seems that although most carriers have loads of dark fiber underground, so the cable isn't really the problem, but maybe these companies will help drive bandwidth prices down by enabling small yet very fast ISPs to pop up and use the technology without having to haggle over ground cable. The Internet Revolution per se, isn't going to continue until we all have true broadband (10 Mbps or more, preferably 100 Mbps) to the curb for $19.95 a month.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
In order to get the laser printer working from their ethernet computer network (both of which they invented) they had to connect from one building to another. The "easiest" way was to use two lasers from the roof of the building. They had to bring it down as in the fog it was kind of distracting to neighbours and aircraft.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Does anyone know what this stuff costs?
Less Talk, More Beer.
Doesn't that just sound like the start of a commercial?
Order now, operators are standing buy.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
I'm surprised nobody's brought up the do-it-yourself option:
RONJA
It's been on slashdot a couple of times.
Sure it only uses LEDs but it could use lasers rather easily. It would only up the price, and possibly increase the bandwidth.
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
Hopefully with all this new technology coming out, cheap wireless networks will be next on the list of things that
are cool for geeks. I mean WHO DOESN'T have their own intranet in their house???
This is FAR from new technology. I remember looking at one of these in place over 4 years ago. They can by the way traverse 34 miles easily. if both towers are tall enough to be above trees and the curvature of the earth and run at a high power. The problem is that Microwave links are far more reliable. If you get a downpour or thick ground fog your link dies and the biggest problem isnt heavy rain but horizontal rain or freezing rain get some on the UV filter/protector and you now are out of focus until the heaters melt it.
Microwave suffers from more problems.. (98% humidity? you now have heavy attenuation) but you are right. It is cheaper in the long run to buy a pair of dark fibers to your desired location.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You, yourself, can buy a several watt (yes watt) IR diode
Jesus!
I hope anyone using that kind of power makes sure they know what they are doing.
Because the IR beam is invisible your eye will not have a blink reflex to bright IR light. The first you will know about getting an eyefull of a powerful IR laser is when you blind yourself (or someone else)
You have no pain receptors on your retina.
Remember home made lasers can be an absolute bastard to align! A good staring point for information on home made lasers is Sams Laser FAQ
A good background to semicondutor lasers is Britney Spears Guide to Semiconductor Physics (Yep, its true! check out the link.)
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
It all sounds good, until a flock of birds fly by!
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
You're all stating that this optical link would be severely hampered by weather/birds/plywood, but what about using several laser beams all transmitting the same signal (or a slightly dephased variation of the same signal) ? Heck, if IR light has certain shortcomings, why not place a different wavelength-laser right next to it and let them complement each other's strengths and weaknesses ? I don't know squat about lasers but it's just a thought.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
"Why?!? the files where are the files?"
"The networks down."
"OH MY GOD!"
"WHY!"
"BIRDS, BIRDS EVERYWHERE BLOCKING IR?"
"WHATS IR?"
You are SO ready for IBM infastructure.
Actually the weather, especially fog, has some impact on the IR-link, as also some other posts pointed out. So this isn't quite as funny as some moderators thought. A students quarter near my place was linked to the net via an IR-link, since there was a convenient light of sight to the university. But they where very happy when they got a copper link, since they could count on loosing net connection when there was fog.
Also there were often other problems, apparently with the antenna and the signal converter sitting behind it (i only know that sometimes people had to go to the roof to fiddle with the equipment to get the link working again). So you probably should only go for an IR-link if you can stand the occasional downtime, or in sunny countries, where the waether doesn affect the line of sight.
--
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
Didn't the french have a problem with this in Paris with La Grande Arche de la Defense? They couldn't figure out why their laser, from one side of the building to the other, would lose connectivity at random times durnig the day. Turns out the pigeons were flying through the beam and interrupting service. I guess the only way around that would be to build a massive network of glass tubes all over the city.
1. During a good snow, it will not cross a street (200ft, +-10). (Commercial units. Had a demonstrable five mile range on a pretty day.
2. I don't know where you are located, but when it snows or rains here, it snows and rains pretty much all over the city (Anchorage, AK). Redundancy only works if a few of your transports get interrupted. Otherwise you get sit back and answer the user support line and make up excuses while watching the routes flap in the routing table.
3. Glass windows in many larger buildings are infrared mirrors. Heat loss reduction. Don't even think about the cost of changing one in a space-frame building. Equipment goes outside.
4. By the time we got "redundantised" and "routerised" to make the system even remotely reliable, paying the local one of the LECs for SONET transport was looking pretty good.
I might be tempted to use this where the sun shines a lot, or in large enclosed structures, or to some place completely inacessable by other means, but I don't think it's ready for prime time.
*whup* "Get along, little electrons. Heeyah!"
A quarter-century sounds right. I wasn't sure how far back it went. But knew I'd seen it well before I moved out to CA about 12 years ago so called it "over a decade". But it could easily have predated the Altair.
The roof/pole mounted device was quite large - about the volume of a monitor but twice as deep and half as high, with two big lenses (looking something like eyes) on the front. Curved cover which also overhung the lenses to keep rain of that made it look a bit streamlined, in a style consistent with the '60s and reminiscent of automobiles dating even earlier.
I visited their San Antonio site at one point. They had a sign on the door of the wiring closet behind the server room that was apparently originally intended for a welding machine. It said "do not look into Arc". Seemed appropriate, both as a reference to the high-power infrared link (which was really on the roof) and the truly piled-full-of-snarled-cables wiring closet. B-)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Username: "crappywebsite"
Password: "slashdot"
I tried to log in as "slashdot", with password "slashdot", which someone on Slashdot usually sets up. It told me, first of all, that my address "FakeAddress@hotmail.com" was already taken. (!) But then it started saying that "Slashdot" was already taken, and started tacking random numbers onto the end. So I finally got frustrated and registered "crappywebsite", given how long it took to register an account... *grin*
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suwain_2
There's another way...infrared line-of-sight infrared lasers between your building and another one nearby.
:)
-1 Redundant