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The Laid-off Techie
LazyBoy writes: "ZDNet News has this article entitled "The world of the laid-off techie". Yikes! Things have been bad in New Jersey for a while (telecom slump). How are they elsewhere?"
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... is bad. Don't be looking for a contract here anytime soon....
Never, ever lose a file again. Ever.
How did that happen? $401k in 8 months? Am I missing something here?
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but I'll bite.
A 401(K) is a savings plan that many employees use to place a small percentage of their income into. Generally, they're tax-sheltered accounts that allow you to invest in a variety of stocks, etc. in order to let your money work for you a bit rather than burn a hole in your pocket.
So, he could have easily had as little as a few thousands dollars in his account that he was forced to live off of while out of work.
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
I agree times are hard (having got laid of by a biggish now smallish teleco equipment manufacturer) but managed to find a job before my contract ended.
In the UK at the moment there seems to be a shortage of real-time software engineers with a number of companies I know having a shortfall in that area.
However in the IT support, web development, etc. areas then I agree times are very hard and not really showing signs of recovery despite what our blinkered politicians try to say.
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
The telecom slump (crash) hit Denver pretty hard. I've been out of work for over 9 months without a good lead in sight. Right now, I'm working a $12/hr temp job that could get canned at any moment, but I'm glad to have it.
Colorado seems to have this tendency to put all of its eggs into one economic basket. Before the telecom crash, there was the petroleum industry crash, and other economic downturns before that.
I'd have to side with the pessimists. Many of the jobs during the golden years are gone forever. And forget the crazy salaries! $110K for an NT admin?! Sheesh.
WWW
anyone who uses their 401k as their emergency fund is on crack. they should get crappy temp work before they touch their 401k/ira funds.
A lot of the people I know were "paper techies" who used to brag about how much they made. Well, who has the job now?
:)
On the other hand, I also know plenty of good people who got let go "just because". They were adequte to stellar performers, who were in the wrong business unit at the wrong time.
If your skills are marketable, and you're lucky, you'll find a job. Bottom line. If you have so-so skills (see oddtodd.com for a good list of so-so skills) then you won't find a job. A professionally polished resume doesn't matter if everything "interesting" you did was for a bunch of fucked companies that didn't deliver anything.
I think that's the crux of the biscuit. All the badass experience doens't matter if everyone looks at it and says, "but this company didn't *do* anything, and it failed". OTOH, if you delivered (more or less on schedule and at budget) a (blah blah blah buzzword) then you have something. You'll find work. Software is still being developed, web sites are launched, the world is still turning.
We're just at the bottom of a cycle. At the end of the hype, everyone was saying "XML this" and "Web Services that". Well no one really knew what to do with all that. Once people start to figure out how to hook up the latest tech with the consumer/end user, the same way Netscape brought the web to the masses, you'll see it pick up. It may take 2 years, or 5. But it'll happen. The VC will go back to insane spending. All the MBAs and "Director of Multimedia Development" types will work again. Don't worry.
Just make sure my latte is right, OK? Working in the NOC takes good Joe. It won't be long before you're bossing me around again.
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
I know this has been mentioned a lot the past couple months, but gov't is where its at right now. I'm currently in the process of converting my military TS clearance over to contractor and giving serious thought to doing gov't work again (I'm a sysadmin).
The company I work for makes equipment for telecoms and we've been hit HARD the last few months with no sign of letting up (at least not for another 12-18 months...maybe).
Say what you want about working for The Man, but The Man will provide me with a salary 1/3rd greater then I'm currently making (have clearance, will pay). Its a 5 year contract so unless I'm fired, I'm safe from layoffs. How many others can claim that right now?
If the market improves, then maybe I'll go back private sector. But right now, gov't work is safe.
"A year ago, Jose Carlos Cavazos was enthusiastic about his new career in telecommunications and his position with Nortel Networks. Now he's throwing mail on the night shift at a U.S. Postal Service distribution center for $13 an hour.
Geez, you only have to read the first line.
He was working in an unnamed position at Nortel. The article goes on to describe that he's got an engineering degree from Texas A&M (one of the best) and while he was operating with an MBA (probably because he wanted to move into management where more money was) he still has a tech background and is a direct victim of the tech slow-down. And in this case, since he was working for Nortel, it didn't matter if he was pushing a broom under their roof, it was a tech company he was released from.
Reading the following details, you will see that it's an artical that illustrates that it's the tech 'industry' that's failing, not merely tech 'jobs.' And again, these people still have 'tech' backgrounds. As managers and leaders, do you think the people under them kept their jobs or do you think they fired management and kept the underlings?
Peter Peets has a different take on layoffs. The Chapel Hill, N.C., resident took a job in December 2000 as product manager for software development in a regional office of Cisco Systems. He got laid off four months later in a downsizing that eliminated 8,500 Cisco positions, and he spent the summer fretting about his mortgage and how he'd fund the college education of his three children.
Again, a person showing technical ability but happens to have been in a managerial position... why? Because most people (not you) realize that when management gets the axe, the people under them have already gotten it.
It's not misleading, you're misreading.
I suspect you're quite comfortable in your position..? Don't fool yourself into thinking they axe management and marketting before they lay off the "line workers." It's the "workers" who get axed first. They show management getting it because it's more dramatic though they ASSume the reader understands that in some of these cases, hundreds and thousands of people below them got the axe first.
There is an article about teachers in the New York Times. It seems that a fair number of techies are looking into becoming teachers. Maybe they want to fill the void left by Woz?
Believe nothing -- Buddha
How did that happen? $401k in 8 months? Am I missing something here?
I'm assuming that you're not American, a 401(K) is the mechanism used to save for retirement. In UK terms, it's a bit like a private pension, but it's also like an ISA, because you get to choose directly what goes into it. But it's not like an ISA because there is no maximum limit.
You can access the money in your 401(K) for a number of things, off the top of my head, education and buying a house, and I guess unemployment too.
I'm in the 10th year of my software development career. I've done large-scale custom middleware for most of that, and web architecture and development for the last two. Last spring I was laid off from my contracting position with a major employer, one of its first round of cuts. I was at least given two weeks of notice. I spent that two weeks calling people I knew, hitting all the local employment sites on the web, and stopping by to see what the big firms around had to offer. This was the start of the big down turn.
I was lucky at that time to move into another contract, and even fortunate enough to keep my $100k pay rate. This contract though was not in my core skill set, and I was not doing a good job at it. I used my networking skills to learn of another project at the firm that was having trouble and that needed my skills. I consulted on their floundering project a bit while I floundered on mine, and eventually got myself transferred. Now nearly a year later we're fielding a groundbreaking project that's going to have a big impact on a national pharmaceutical distribution firm.
Alas, that contract is done, and I'm being pushed into the market again, at still a worse time. I've seen this coming though, and I've spent the time to know the market. I know what people are making. I know that there are over 100 other contractors in my field applying for every job that I see. I know they're getting $15-20/hr less today than last year on bill rates. I know some of them have been out there for months.
That's why I've done the same calling, the same web searching, the same drive-by interviewing. I've done the planning for when I'm done here in three weeks and am a month from selling off the car and the house to downsize my own liabilities. I've spent the last couple of months making giant payments on other things to lower monthly outlay. I've started my wife looking for a job and daycare for the two-year-old boy.
And today, I've heard from old colleagues, I should hear that I'm being offered a position that is at once a career step up and a salary step down. From being a highly paid contractor I'm going back to corporate life as a senior business analyst, the guy who whips sales people back to reality and IT folks into a frenzy to keep sales people selling. It's what I want to do, but it's not going to pay me as well. And I'm goign to be working in a couple weeks, which is a good thing.
I've gotten that position by managing my career in the local IT environment. I keep in touch with old colleagues and managers. I read in the papers and keep up on the firms. I know their challenges and their objectives before I go in for the interview. I find out who the managers are and I learn who they've worked with, who they've promoted, and who they've canned. I know whose coat tails they're riding. I find out what technology the firm is using, and what technology battles are going on. If you can't find out which side of those your prospective manager is on, you've gotta find a comfortable spot on the fence and find out which way to lean when you can.
The bottom line is that Skills Are Not Enough! At least 75 of the 100 people applying for the job have the skills. Fifty are probably experts. To land the job you've got to offer more. You've got to show insight and planning. Today you've got to be an industry expert, not just a technology expert. You've got to show them that you're going to keep them from making the same mistakes that you made at your last job. Most of all, I think, you MUST make them believe that you're taking the job not because you're about to lose your car and your home, but because you want to be a part of that firm. You need to be part of the firm because that's what's going to make your career grow. And if that's the case, then you're fortunate. If you're up on the local scene you're more likely to find that.
- Sig this!
Yeah, I won't argue. But in 5 years I'll retire and collect $25K+/year plus full benefits for sitting on my ass doing nothing. At that point, no matter what road I go down, I'll always be $25K/year ahead, even if I get laid off from my future post-retirement gigs.
I can't up and quit now because I would have to wait until 62 to collect my state pension (if I go before 25 years service). That's 15 years of $25K pension out the window. Not small change.
p.s. It's Delaware. For those on the West Coast, there are shitloads of banks here all needing tech personnel still. All of you who are unemployed and spending up the credit cards, guess who is making big bucks cause of it? You won't make $100K+ a year but you can also buy a nice detached 3-4 bedroom house in the suburbs for $150K too... Decent 2 bedroom apartments in gated communities are all well under $1K/month. I squatted in a safe 1BR apartment two years ago saving money for a house down payment. Had a private entrance and inside washer/dryer. $585/month. Plus there is no sales tax here and you can register a car for $20/year no matter how much the car is worth (one time 2% tax on transfers though, but still, no sales tax on purchase)...
Read this article about the sort of folks more likely to be laid off. Here's its headline:
And so it goes.
From the article: She is versed in programming, account management, and customer
You may be horrified to hear this, but not all programming is computer programming. In this case it probably means organizing marketing programs.
bp
Wow...I wasn't expecting so much of a response.
I didn't post this to be a sob story; I posted it as an example of a techie who can't get a tech job. I don't think I got treated any more unfairly than most of you.
I can tell by many of the responses that most of you live in cities. I live in rural Pennsylvania. (That's why I said $30,000 isn't bad.)
People have weirded out on me about getting a Spanish degree for years. I won't bother going into how that happened, and it's fairly irrelevant. The point was, back in the day, I (like many others) didn't need a degree to get a job. Furthermore, for some time, I made more than I needed, so I wasn't worried about having a family. I made all these decisions before everything went to hell. My other reasons are personal and irrelevant. In any case, scolding me for not being able to tell the future is silly.
I lost my wife because she was immigrating as my wife (as opposed to as a student). Thanks to some laws passed a couple of years ago, you have to meet certain income requirements, which the available local jobs could not meet. Sure, you might want to call me stupid for not learning this until too late, but like I said, these laws are quite new, and neither I nor any of my friends had heard of them. We got and immigration lawyer, but that didn't help much. These are details, and tangental to the topic. The point here is that if I could have found and maintained a job like a couple that I had had before, we would have our own apartment in the States by now.
Some of you have mentioned that even the degreed guys aren't getting hired. I know. I've thought about this myself. However, I distinctly remember that when the headhunters turned cold on me, the specific pretext they kept using was that I didn't have a degree. That's why I'm giving it a shot, taking it a step at a time.
Lastly, it's funny, but it is next to impossible to test out of the classes I'm taking, mainly for administrative reasons. You can laugh at me for going to such a lame school (I've been laughing myself for a long time), but I'm here for strictly financial reasons. And speaking of college, I have to get back to class. Thanks for your input.
Mi klopodas varbi por Esperanto.