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Be Sues Microsoft for Violations of Antitrust Laws

Eugenia writes: "While Be, Inc had the information for over 3 years that Microsoft 'through a series of illegal exclusionary and anticompetitive acts designed to maintain its monopoly in the Intel-compatible PC operating system market and created exclusive dealing arrangements with PC OEMs prohibiting the sale of PCs with multiple preinstalled operating systems' they filed a suit against Microsoft only today. Today Be employes a single person in a tiny office in Mountain View. Great ..."

65 of 652 comments (clear)

  1. One Employee? by daeley · · Score: 4, Funny

    Should they change the name of the company to 'am' or 'is' since they only have one guy now? ;-)

    --
    I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
    1. Re:One Employee? by bryanbrunton · · Score: 5, Funny

      Considering the current state of the Be, they should probably change their name to Was.

    2. Re:One Employee? by Anonymous+DWord · · Score: 3, Funny

      Depends. If you say something like "Imagine a beowulf cluster of these," you'll get smacked down. Nobody wants to imagine that.

      --
      "If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
  2. There's this going for it... by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 5, Funny
    Today Be employes a single person in a tiny office in Mountain View. Great ..."

    At least they won't have any problem demonstrating irreparable harm.

    --
    And the brethren went away edified.
  3. Very Fashionable by djweis · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Now that it's become popular for other companies to sue Microsoft, who will the next one be? Novell seems to be a possibility. IBM should for the same reason as Be, due to OS/2.

    1. Re:Very Fashionable by JabberWokky · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Novell probably died out in quite a fair fashion. OS/2 probably would have a somewhat valid claim - if they could establish that MS held a monopoly at the time and used tactics that, given that monopoly, were illegal. Certainly, there were strong tactics used, and end runs around contracts.

      Remember - it's not illegal if you're not a monopoly, and it's not illegal to be a monopoly. It's just that certain things *become* illegal when you're a legally defined monoply. Most monopolies like utilities (power, water, phone, cable), just kowtow to heavy regulation and limited profits to maintain their monopoly.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    2. Re:Very Fashionable by sphealey · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Novel?

      No. Thier platform RAN on MS-DOS until version 5. It was even pretty stable.
      A few (tired) points:Novell Netware used MS-DOS as a bootloader, since Intel x86 systems typically do not have a ROM monitor. Since Netware was under development before MS-DOS hit the streets it would be hard for Netware to have been dependent on MS-DOS.

      Novell invented MS-DOS networking. If not for Novell, there would have been no usable networks in the Wintel world (here come the Vines flames!) and the Wintel sales juggernaut would have been slowed down quite a bit.

      Long-timers can remember MS-Office 97 Service Pack 2, or, The Service Pack That Ate Novell. That innocuous SP broke all the Windows networking conventions (which Novell had invented!!) and rendered Netware uninstallable on W95 for about 4 months until a patch was developed. I am sure that Microsoft had no such intent when it released that patch. Very sure.We'll see.

      sPh

  4. Why now? by Pyromage · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Today it employs only one person in a tiny office...

    Sounds like you're wondering why they'd do so *now* of all times, when they can't do anything.

    Easy: Nothing to lose. The company has nothing left. Normally it is unwise to sue MS. They'll just drag it on and you won't get a significant gain (i.e. Apple's suit), even if you do win. But now, the worst the spending can do is bankrupt them: which is basically where they stand now anyway. OTOH, the damages they could land could put Be back on its feet.

    Sounds like the smartest option left to them.

    1. Re:Why now? by FatRatBastard · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nothing to lose.

      I wouldn't go that far. AFAIK they still have stock holders and are trying to disolve the company. Some of the stockholders may not want any more money wasted and just liquidate what's left.

      Of course, since the potential payout is much, much larger if they sue I doubt anyone would pitch a fit, but you never know.

    2. Re:Why now? by artemis67 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Be's stock closed at twelve cents today. $500 would buy just over 4,000 shares.

      So, what are the odds of Be being able to siphon off a billion or two from MS? :-D

    3. Re:Why now? by tswinzig · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I wouldn't go that far. AFAIK they still have stock holders and are trying to disolve the company. Some of the stockholders may not want any more money wasted and just liquidate what's left.

      Wrong... as a stockholder for a long time, I can tell you the only thing we're holding on for is a lawsuit just like this. The only reason Be is suing now is to win money to try and give some money back to their shareholders.

      --

      "And like that ... he's gone."
    4. Re:Why now? by grammar+nazi · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I got a little news for all you supposed stockholders. If Be is in the current state which they seem to be in right now, then they owe NOTHING to stockholders. The debtholders make the calls for the company now. Stockholders are typically LAST to recieve anything when it comes to profits or paying off debts for an distressed company. Typically, especially if the company has filed Chapter 11, the shareholders lose all of their voting rights. The Debt holders (Bond holders, Asset owners, Leasers, Banks) come in and literally make the calls.

      If they feel that the company is worth more being liquidated (which is typical with software companies, which Be has been for the last few years) as opposed to rebuilt, then they will make that decision and recover whatever they can. Since Be has sold it's assets to Palm and auctioned off eveyrthing else, I think that the debt holders have already been making the calls.

      As far as a lawsuit goes, it seems to be a good idea. You lose and get $0 or you win and get $2 Billion of computers that were going to be put in public schools with WindowsME (wait.. different lawsuit).

      The potential gains from a lawsuit will go to the debt holders. I would be surprised if the stockholders see any of it.

      Since Be has already sold it's IP to Palm, there is 0% chance that they would ever go back into OS business and frankly, everybody else is gone.

      The debt holders will reap the rewards of the lawsuit. This is how it is done. I do wonder who is paying for the attornies, since I doubt the debt holders would do that. It's probably a contigency case that somebody else already mentioned.

      I worked at a distressed securities hedge fund in Manhattan for a few years, although, I mainly stuck to IT activities.

      --

      Keeping /. free of grammatical errors for ~5 years.
  5. paying the venture folks by coltrane99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Companies will do things like this after the game is over to try and get some nickels on the dollar for the VC's. I would expect them to settle for a low dollar amount.

  6. So why prosecute murderers? by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 3, Flamebait

    After all, you can't bring back the dead, it's not like the murderer can make restitution, so let the murderer get away with it. No use prosecuting, just a waste of the prosecutor's time and taxpayers' taxes.

  7. need to prove Intel/Microsoft collusion by rjnagle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, I wish the litigator success, because it would definitely be a boon for PC's sold today to come equipped with more than one OS. However, nobody put a gun to the head of the OEM's who produced single system PC's. To win this case, you would need to demonstrate that the contracts between Microsoft and OEM's violated antitrust laws. Quite frankly, I doubt that this could be shown. Despite the finding of fact in the antitrust lawsuit, you would have to show that it was impossible or next to impossible for OEM's to sell PC's with alternate OS's.

    But Dell has been able to sell Linux (which apparently they dropped, but don't worry, HP is now selling them). And other PC companies have been able to do the same (albeit in limited numbers).

    To prove that it was impossible for OEM's to sell PC's with alternate OS's, you would need to demonstrate some sort of collusion between Microsoft and Intel, making it difficult for developers to produce alternate OS's on Intel CPU's. That clearly has not happened. The x86 Intel platform certainly didn't hinder kernel development, and Intel has been relatively open about publishing specs.

    Good luck Be. Truly, I feel your pain.

    Robert Nagle Idiotprogrammer
    Austin, Texas, idiotprogrammer, Technical writer

    --
    Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston
    1. Re:need to prove Intel/Microsoft collusion by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 5, Insightful
      There was an old tagline for Schlitz beer: "When you're out of Schlitz, you're out of beer." To which liquor store owners would frequently retort, "Yeah, but when you're out of Bud, you're out of business." Sure, sell all the brands of beer you want. If you don't have the most popular brand though, you're going to run out of customers sooner or later. Probably sooner.

      The question wasn't whether anyone could have sold machines with non-MS OSs; clearly they could because some did. It's rather whether or not you could run a business exclusively selling machines with non-MS OSs. When the basic requirement to sell Windows pre-installed on your machines at all is to purchase a Windows license for every machine you sell regardless of whether or not it's actually installed, and when you're forbidden under the terms of the OEM agreement to sell machines with some other OS installed next to Windows, it simply does not make economic sense to offer more than one pre-installed OS. In that case, which OS are you going to choose? If you don't choose Windows, you're in a situation analagous to that of the liquor store owner who chooses not to sell Bud, but with a vengeance. Instead of locking out 50% of the market (or whatever Budweiser's market share is) you're locking out 99%. That's just foolish. It's a formula for going out of business. If it was a workable buisness model, VA Software would still be VA Linux.

      Maybe, just maybe, if you're Dell or HP you have enough muscle to get MS to strike the offending clauses from its standard OEM contract. But for Joe's OEM and Bait Shop around the corner here, it would be impossible. To sell any other OS than Windows would be financial suicide.

      --
      And the brethren went away edified.
    2. Re:need to prove Intel/Microsoft collusion by taco1991 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Did you actually read the finds of fact from the antitrust case? In fact, it clearly spells out why OS/2, MacOS, and Be (listed under "Fringe Operating Systems") couldn't capture even a minimal share of the OS market. go read it yourself and see. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Apple, IBM, and other OS makers sue Microsoft as a result. Maybe this will start a chain reaction that may be able to slow the giant...

      taco

      --
      "Corrupting our youth one mind at a time"
    3. Re:need to prove Intel/Microsoft collusion by ChaosDiscordSimple · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Despite the finding of fact in the antitrust lawsuit, you would have to show that it was impossible or next to impossible for OEM's to sell PC's with alternate OS's.

      The key was impossible. Things have changed in the last five years. Five years ago Be still had a chance. Five years ago, Microsoft's OEM agreements charged for a copy of Windows on every machine shipped, even if Windows wasn't actually installed. Five years ago Microsoft's OEM agreements forbade putting a "Boot into BeOS" icon on the desktop. Five years ago you could not purchase a desktop PC from a mainstream OEM with a non-Microsoft operating system.

      Microsoft's tactics deliberately made it nearly impossible for an OEM to offer customers alternate operating systems. Maybe BeOS didn't have what it takes to survive in the market, but we'll never know, since Microsoft effectively kept BeOS out of the market.

    4. Re:need to prove Intel/Microsoft collusion by K8Fan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Jean-Louis Gasse offered BeOS free

      to any hardware manufacturer at one point. That not one took him up on it is a fairly positive indication that MS was putting some major pressure on PC makers. It's been shown that the secret licence that MS forced PC makers to sign specifically prevented PC makers from offering any alternative. The only PC maker who did offer BeOS pre-installed (Toshiba?) was forced to hide it, rather than make it a menu choice.

      Be has a very good case. Put it this way - there are folks who would be happier to invest in this suit, than in Be as a successful seller of operating systems.

      --
      "How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
    5. Re:need to prove Intel/Microsoft collusion by dinotrac · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Actually, Microsoft did put a gun to the heads of OEMs and the DOJ blundered miserably in not making it one of the elements of their case.

      Microsoft's agreements with OEMs (the agreements themselves were trade secrets, by the way) forbad creating multiple-boot machines. Be's business strategy was to be a "helper OS": used for things that Be did best without losing access to Microsoft Apps. It's pretty much the same strategy Microsoft used in weaning people from DOS to Windows 3.0. Microsoft's OEM agreements prevented this kind of arrangement. Realistically, given the amount of software on the market, it also prevented desktop competition.

      For an OEM, on a thin margin, that's pretty much like putting a gun to your head. It's also illegal as Hell for a monopolist to do.

      Be is in a pretty good position, here, I think. Microsoft has already been established as a monopolist and the OEM agreements very clearly represented an illegal abuse of their monopoly power.

      If I'm not mistaken, and I may be, this suit will be in a class of Federal suit whereby the loser pays. If so, Microsoft will be responsible for all legal fees if they lose.

      I wouldn't be completly surprised if some enterprising law firm adds up the merits of this case and agrees to go for a big score here, matching MS blow for blow.

    6. Re:need to prove Intel/Microsoft collusion by Asmodean · · Score: 4, Informative

      "However, nobody put a gun to the head of the OEM's who produced single system PC's. To win this case, you would need to demonstrate that the contracts between Microsoft and OEM's violated antitrust laws."

      I used to work for a small OEM and yes, MS could hurt them too. This small OEM had bussiness sales and most of those companies wanted computers with windows. If our OEM could not provide them with it (ie if MS cut them off) then they would have gone to an OEM that could provide it.

      I have the "Microsoft Windows NT Server and Windows NT Workstation OEM Preinstallation Kit" booklet right here in front of me. I'll quote you some of the more juicy bits:

      "To comply with the terms of your OEM license agreement, you must conform to the requirements and restrictions described in the sections that follow."

      "You must preinstall Windows NT using one of the two methods described in this book; you may not preinstall Windows NT using any other method."

      "You must preinstall Windows NT on the hard drive of every computer that you ship to a user."

      "You cannot ship only a compact disc containing the Windows NT operating system; Windows NT must also be preinstalled on the computer's hard drive."

      "You can install ONLY the Windows NT 4.0 operating system on a computer. You cannot include an additional operating system (such as Windows NT 3.51, windows 95 or Windows 3.1) unless you have a seperate legal agreement with Microsoft."

      There are some of the restrictions word for word. There are a bunch of other things like the computer has to boot directly into windows, which rules out lilo. You also can't modify/delete almost anything including the IE start or search pages.

      --
      It's a good thing the world sucks or we'd all fall off.
    7. Re:need to prove Intel/Microsoft collusion by curunir · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why do you think not a single major PC manufacturer testified during the trial?

      I believe Dell and Gateway were both heavily in favor of the Government seeking to divide up Microsoft. Then something happened. People stopped buying as many new PCs. It turned out that people were able to run everything they wanted on their current machines.

      So, where could they find the next "killer app" to drive the PC upgrade process?

      Redmond, WA of course. Windows XP is the only reason that Dell, Gateway and all the other computer makers aren't hurting big time right now. The bloated nature of Windows software is actually as selling point to companies bundling software with new PC's.

      Ever wonder why the government suddenly changed its mind about breaking up Microsoft? It had a lot to do with the Dells and Gateways of the world asking them not to (and a bit to do with content companies requesting the same thing).

      Microsoft has a lot more than just their short and curlies in its hands.

      --
      "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
    8. Re:need to prove Intel/Microsoft collusion by enkidu · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Redmond, WA of course. Windows XP is the only reason that Dell, Gateway and all the other computer makers aren't hurting big time right now. The bloated nature of Windows software is actually as selling point to companies bundling software with new PC's.

      That may be partially true but I believe the core reason the DOJ changed their mind about breaking up Microsoft was not because of Dell or Gateway but because Bush became POTUS and ordered a review of the case by Ashcroft. If Gore had become president, the DOJ would still be asking for a breakup of Microsoft. Well, maybe not after 9/11...

      Don't you think Dell and Gateway would prefer to be able to say to consumers, "Hey, you can boot into Windows, Darwin, FreeBSD *and* Linux if you buy one of our laptops/desktops!" Or "Configure your own multi-boot system, we'll set it up for you!" ? I think it would make the PC market much more interesting and add more value for the customers.

      And yes, Microsoft has more than just the short and curlies in its hands. They've got them all by the family jewels.

      --

      There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself
      -Raymond Chandler, The Long Goodbye
    9. Re:need to prove Intel/Microsoft collusion by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Insightful
      That's not a gun. That's a mutual agreement between two consenting private parties. For example, there is nothing forcing OEM's to deal with Microsoft at all. They only do so because it's in their self-interest.


      No, they do it because if they didn't do it, they would be out of the PC OEM business, because Windows has a monopoly on the PC desktop market.


      Silly example: if I was the only person on earth who could provide you with food, you would be free to "not deal with me at all", by starving, right? So therefore any contract I asked you to sign, no matter how draconian, would be a "mutual agreement between two consenting parties"?


      No, it's a gun to the head, and anyone who tells you otherwise hadn't thought the situation through.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    10. Re:need to prove Intel/Microsoft collusion by clontzman · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Jean-Louis Gasse offered BeOS free to any hardware manufacturer at one point. That not one took him up on it is a fairly positive indication that MS was putting some major pressure on PC makers.

      It's not an indication of anything. In addition to the cost of the software, there must be demand for it -- after all, it costs OEMs a substantial amount to support additional OSs and unless they're going to sell in significant bulk (and there's no indication that Be would -- there weren't that many downloads even after it became free [as in beer]).

      After all, Linux is a free OS and Dell didn't find it worthwhile to continue to provide it on their workstations. (Yeah, yeah... mod me down... doesn't make me wrong)

  8. As A Long Time BeOS User... by lostchicken · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I fully agree with Be's suit.

    Microsoft hit BeOS hard with the release of Windows Me. You see, BeOS PE needed a way to exit Windows without shutting down. This was possible in Win 95 and Win 98, but removed in Win Me.

    Microsoft never gave a reason for this, and it is assumed that MS made this change to restrict other OSes from running along side of Windows.

    Microsoft's strong-arm tactics in OEM licensing also hit Be hard. Many companies were going to start shipping BeOS machines, but they noticed a clause in their license that would require the purchase of a Windows license, even though Windows would not be used. This would be very costly, so the OEM BeOS idea failed.

    Some have said that the size of Be will hurt them. I diagree. Think from the jury's point of view.

    You see one large company against one man. That one man used to be a large company, but the other large company killed it.

    It is just this kind of tale that will help Be the most in the courtroom.

    --
    -twb
  9. Re:Comeback, Be! by foonf · · Score: 3, Insightful
    f they got a good settlement out of this, it might give them a new lease on life. The problem would be buying their intellectual property back from Palm. Does anyone know if Palm is planning to use it for anything?


    Allegedly Palm is using the Be technology as the basis for their next OS. The current Palm OS can't really do the type of things that, thanks to Microsoft et. al, everyone thinks a handheld device needs to do.

    Also don't think that even if they get some money, they will return as a viable software company. More likely any money they get will go to their creditors.
    --

    "(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
  10. Good. I'm glad. by antis0c · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I for one am glad that Be is sueing Microsoft, and I don't think it's as futile as some think either. If you read the article, the entire suit is based on the destruction of Be, majority of it because Be was unable to get PC OEM's to install Be on PC's they sold because license agreements with Microsoft prohibited that from taking place, else they violate their agreement with Microsoft, and will not be allowed to install Windows on any machines. You cannot get anymore anti-competitive. Plus, with only a single person left in the company, and 99% of its assets sold off, you can't get anymore proof the business was indeed destroyed. The burden on Be now is to prove that is was indeed largely Microsoft's fault and not other elements such as poor business plan, or a product the market didn't need. Hopefully it'll get more press coverage, this should continue to help prove to the average Joe Windows that Microsoft didn't get where they are today because they make a good product.

    --

    ..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
  11. More to follow me thinks. by miffo.swe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Due to the conviction of Microsoft as an abusive monopoly and the many businesses they have destroyed more suits will likely emerge. The fact that Microsoft will battle multiple fronts will probably make it easier to win a suit. When Sun, DOJ, Be and AOL togheter pull resources in different directions it will be hard to focus. This will encourage more stomped companies to file aswell. I think that this also has a good side effect, that is open source will maybe have a window of opportunity to thrive. Microsoft will have their hands full for a while now, especially if IBM and other joins the fight.

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
  12. Ode to my BeBox by slithytove · · Score: 5, Funny

    Elizabeth sits in a closet now
    and the blissful memories fade
    visions of objects and mime-types
    and the neat little scripts that i made

    Hope for the future has past
    from my elegant blue Beth
    to various *n*x machines
    what little hope I have left

    For as much as gnu's full of bounty
    and the empire looks to fall from it's hill
    I remember a time that was simpler
    only a BeBox my wish could fulfill

  13. The Reason Why Be Didn't Make It by Meowharishi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There's a fantastic book out there called the 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing. It's a fascinating read and contains many case studies to back up these "Laws".

    The place for #3 in any market is always small, but obtainable. Linux now owns this space in the desktop OS market (with Apple being #2). Be failed to really develop themselves and build what is known as "mind share". How many people have even HEARD of Be? Not many.

    As entertaining as it might be to generate conspiracy theories that somehow the big evil M$ "kept them down", there are other more down-to-earth reasons why Be has always been doomed.

    Linux squashed Be. This is because Linux caught onto a market wave as it was happening (the open source movement).. Be tried to catch on to this as well but it was too little too late.

    --
    mje0w!!!1!
  14. You knew it would happen. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    When Be had an agreement to ship pre-installed on laptops from a major distributor (I forget, was it HP?) Microsoft stepped in and said "did you read your license agreement? You can install other operating systems if you want, but you cannot boot from them or display how to get to them." So the machines shipped with Be installed, but most people never knew it. This cost Be quite a bit of money.

    They tried to get the DoJ to use this in the antitrust trial, but the DoJ said that their case was for illigal tying, not for exclusionary agreements. DoJ urged Be to go to trial separately.

    When BeOS was purchased not too long ago, they reserved the right to sue MS based on the judgement of the court in the DoJ trial. Since it appears that the DoJ sold out, Be is finally doing what they should have done earlier.

    Better late than never. Good luck, Be!

  15. The Death of a Thousand Cuts Begins by sterno · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Ultimately what will bring down Microsoft isn't any sort of half-baked government settlement. What will doom them is having to fight a ton of little court battles against every company who ever thought about competing against them. Even if they win a lot of these cases, the pure distraction of having to fend off all these suits is going to hurt them.

    --
    This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
  16. Be vs. Me confusion by abe+ferlman · · Score: 4, Funny

    Even worse, the beast may have infringed on Be's trademarks.

    According to legal opinion in Redmond, "Lindows" may confuse consumers into thinking they're getting "Windows". So switching the first letter of your product name with that of another player is bad, right?

    Well, "Be" only had two letters to begin with, and MS went and took one of them for their shiny new consumer OS! It's like the David and Bathsheba of the software world. Truly shocking.

    --
    microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
    1. Re:Be vs. Me confusion by Tony-A · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Also the've tended to be all caps as in NT or XP. You would expect Microsoft Windows Millenium Edition to be ME instead of Me. Looks like Microsoft went out of their way to trample on Be.

  17. Weren't you paying attention? by dsandler · · Score: 3, Informative

    Of course he is. Dan Johnston, longtime general counsel for Be, is now the CEO (and receptionist, and IT staff).

  18. Re:What a surprise... by Doomdark · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Well, it's hardly a secret that, yes, Microsoft has had (perhaps still has?) the problematic deals with hardware manufacturers. Problematic in the sense that the practices were closer to mafia than normal businesses ("we'll make you an offer you can't refuse"). It's not that big dealers got discounts; it was that the choice was pretty much down to "pay for windows install for every single machine you sell or we won't sell you any copies, ever, you pirate scum". Guess if it's easy for any other OS vendor to get their OS pre-installed as Microsoft-tax has already been paid?

    Be is one of the few companies that genuinely do have a case, me thinks. With browsers the situation is bit convoluted (no one ever made money selling browsers). With BeOS, Be had snowball's chance in hell getting h/w manufacturer's to pre-install the OS because of Microsoft's strong arm tactics. Consumers didn't get to choose... perhaps they wouldn't have wanted BeOS in any case, but MS didn't want to take a chance. Of course MS didn't just fight BeOS but all potential competitors... Be just happens to be the one that had closest match on intel hardware (for 'normal' consumers).

    Oh and yes, these tactics were hardly "tiny little thing" that Microsoft "didn't even know it was doing"... the whole industry has known about this for years now... but big names (Dell, Gateway et al) have been too scared of Don Bill to publicly complain (and/or greedy and content with status quo... they just sell hardware, OS is just a tax they have to pay)

    --
    I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
  19. Re:it was the boot loader by futuresheep · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem wasn't that OEM's couldn't offer another OS, it was the fine print that said if you offered Windows, you couldn't make any changes to the boot loader. Hitachi had a PC, the Flora Prius, that had BeOS installed on a seperate partition, but in order to use it, there were instructions you could get online to make it bootable. Good article on it here.

  20. BE is going to win or lose by da_Den_man · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think people are missing the brilliance of this tactic. Yes, Be is no more. It has ceased to Be. (haha) However, they are illustrating the WHOLE POINT of suing by being out of business.

    What better way to illustrate a Monopoly that prohibited vendors from bundling competing products, therby limiting the market and competition to any Microsoft monopoly, than to be a competing product driven out of business by the same monopoly?

    Now, as long as they can afford the legal fee's, they may actually have a chance at illsutrating WHY MS should be broken up, and WHY MS IS a monopoly in the truest sense of the word.

    --
    You keep going until you die..."Me".
    1. Re:BE is going to win or lose by inkless1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      or through a certain monopoly?

      Marketplace != fair. And Be had lots of apps and tons of development support. Heck, they even had DOOM - which is my first test to consider something a real OS ;).

      inky

  21. You could see this suit coming.... by davidebsmith · · Score: 4, Informative
    if you read the press release about the Asset Purchase Agreement under which Be sold almost everything to Palm:

    Pursuant to the terms of the asset purchase agreement, Be retained certain rights, assets and liabilities in connection with the transaction, including its cash and cash equivalents, receivables, certain contractual liabilities under in-licensing agreements, and rights to assert and bring certain claims and causes of action, including under antitrust laws. Be is in the process of investigating the merits and potential value of pursuing the retained claims and causes of action. Be has not yet brought any such claim or cause of action. Under the terms of the plan of dissolution, if, notwithstanding the approval of the dissolution and the adoption of the plan of dissolution by the stockholders of Be, the board of directors of Be determines that it would be in the best interests of Be's stockholders or creditors for Be not to dissolve, including in order to permit Be to pursue (or more easily pursue) any retained claims or causes of action, the dissolution of Be may be abandoned or delayed until a future date to be determined by Be's board of directors. Regardless of whether Be dissolves, Be will not continue to exist as an operating entity.
    (emphasis added)
  22. Re:Not fashion. Justice. by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 3, Funny

    And, as we all know, Microsoft is expert in taking our back ends.

  23. A single employee is necessary by ackthpt · · Score: 3, Interesting
    A single employee is necessary if the owners of Be, Inc., have planned what I think they have planned.

    Consider that they may have purchased Be only to use it as a battering ram against Microsoft and all this time tossed it a carrot here and there and finally closed it down after suffering enough losses to look good in court. Depending on how the judge decides to view this it may work, it may not, or Microsoft may just say, "How much do you want to shut up and go away?", and settle out of court.

    A sad end for Be, anyway, particularly after watching something like this happen to my prior employer. The name may be the same, but there's a different soul, not to be trusted as the old one was.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  24. Re:About 20-40 billion smackers? by xonker · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The fact of the matter is, only a small percentage of people even want to use these fringe products. Why punish Microsoft for that?

    This would be compelling if it were truthful.

    The reality is that people would like alternatives to using Microsoft, but Microsoft has done everything it can to prevent Dell, HP, Compaq and others from presenting options to their customers.

    The other OSes aren't getting to play on a level playing field. BeOS was a very slick OS, it had all the features that most users would want and was very user-friendly. And it never had a chance, because people weren't exposed to it. They didn't have the marketing dollars to promote it to the average computer user and they couldn't get it on PCs made by the big PC manufacturers because Microsoft did everything they could to prevent it.

    I'm sure that there are people who would still buy Windows if Dell offered BeOS computers -- but the number of people who would have chosen BeOS would probably surprise you -- had they ever been offered and promoted.

    If you're technically apt enough to build your own computer, you can go with an alternative OS. But the customers who want to buy a premade computer from a major manufacturer don't get a choice. Many PC manufacturers have shown interest in having a product line that doesn't include Windows -- and they've been slapped down with exclusive licensing agreements and price dis-incentives from M$ for trying to offer non M$ products.

    That's why M$ should be punished. Harshly.

  25. Netscape too deserves this along w/ many others by bADlOGIN · · Score: 3, Informative
    Be is one of the few companies that genuinely do have a case, me thinks. With browsers the situation is bit convoluted (no one ever made money selling browsers).

    From the early license agreements, Netscape was free for educational use. Businesses and personal non-educational use required you to pay for the license. I remember seeing boxed copies for sale all over the place back in 1995. It was available for nearly every flavor of *NIX, Mac, and Winblowz. They sold the "killer app" that made the web a household name. There's no reason they couldn't still be licensing Navigator to this day; except for one: Microshaft's fear.

    Microshaft pissed in the punchbowl. They dumped an inferior web browser (everything before IE 3.0 was a joke) on consumers and killed of what could have been a serious cash cow. They did this because they couldn't compete on any real merit (typical Microsoft there) so they undercut the competion on price relying on the OS monopoly to fund the dumping untill they drove the competitor out. They did this with word processors, and spreadsheets if you ever stop to wonder what happened to WordPerfect and Lotus 123. The OS monopoly funds screw-up after screw-up of crappy versions and learning while eating into the competitors customer base with cheap prices. By the time version 3 is out, they've cought up. This "business strategy" works great if you've got the cash to burn and nobody to answer to for doing it since smaller companies don't get to spend years screwing up at least three times .

    My point is this: Netscape's complaint is more than legit. Microsoft's monopoly/preditory practices go way further than Netscape or BeOS as well. With the finding of facts to go on, over $20,000,000,000.00USD (yes folks, that's over TWENTY BILLION in the bank), a huge list of enemies, a corporate culture of arrogance, and the current economic slump, they're a prime target to get swamped with lawsuits for the next 5 to 10 years.

    It's been a long time coming, they more than deserve it, and I for one am looking forward to watching the show.

    --
    *** Sigs are a stupid waste of bandwidth.
  26. Re:About 20-40 billion smackers? by Mattcelt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wish that were the case!!! I *have* to use MS products. The professional audio products I use won't work with any other OS. My employer requires that I use IE in Windows to access my email when I'm on call, else I have to drive into the office 1 1/2 hours away. People with whom I do business need the compatibility that comes with MS.

    I love BeOS intensely. I still have it installed, and I use it, but I still have to have MS. Why is that? It's not because they make a better product, not because they have better marketing (though that helped...), but because they established an illegal monopoly. I'm stuck because they broke the law.

    That's why they should be punished. I just wish I could sue them myself. But I'll settle for a painful lawsuit from Be.

  27. Re:Unpopular opinion follows by RelliK · · Score: 5, Informative
    Oh please! Let's beat the dead horse again.

    Signing exclusive agreements is NOT illegal!

    This has been covered extensively in the antitrust decision (which, BTW, was upheld unanimously by 9 appelate judges). The exclusive agreements are illegal when you have a monopoly in that particular market. Microsoft has a monopoly in the OS market. (*) Therefore, the exclusive agreemets are illegal. End of story. You'd do well to actually get a clue before spouting nonsense.

    (*) Oh, and before some moron decides to beat the "MS is not a monopoly" horse, I will not argue with that. I'll merely point out that the district judge and 9 appellate judges disagree with you. And they probably understand the laws a bit better than you.

    --
    ___
    If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
  28. Re:a single employee? by testuser58 · · Score: 4, Funny
    Microsoft's legal strategy against Be:
    • Hire a full-time employee to stand with his naked butt pressed up against the Be employee's window all day long, every day, until Be drops the suit.
  29. Boot Loader lockout workaround (hint hint OEMs...) by Arethan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If I were an OEM, I could install both Linux and Windows on the same machine, and be able to offer my customers a simple multi-boot solution without having to modify the boot sector at all. It's called a boot disk. Insert this disk when you want to boot to Linux. The disk contains nothing more than SysLinux, which is set up to boot the linux partition off of the harddrive. There, OEM License problem is solved.

    Then just put a little icon on the Linux desktops. "Tire of using a floppy to boot linux?" Curious users will click it, and it will Druid them right through installing a multiOS bootloader on their harddrive. Probably LILO or GRUB. And voila, you're done.

    Of course, most OEMs aren't too bright when it comes to getting around license restrictions. The legal departments tend to jump onto the MS bandwagon pretty quickly since it's been their bread and butter for so long.

  30. Re:get over it by inkless1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am so tired of the following arguments:

    1)You can't blame Microsoft for running a business for profits
    2)You can't blame vendors for wanting to sell to largest majority
    3)MS is simply giving the consumers what they want

    etc. etc.

    LISTEN: It doesn't matter if you are anti-MS, a VB Developer or Linus himself - Microsoft is a monopoly. It "earned" it's position in the marketplace through illegal practices.

    It broke the law. It didn't do this yesterday, or a couple days ago, it's been doing it for years, ever since it came to be. All of the above arguments for "get off Microsoft's back" are invalid by means of history. The current industry landscape wasn't anyone's choice - it's the result of a crime.

    "vendors install MS because they know people will buy it"

    No, vendors install MS because MS has a monopoly on the OS market, giving them LITTLE CHOICE. This isn't conspiracy theory, it's fact.

    Let Be sue Microsoft. We all should be suing Microsoft. How many hours of productivity have we lost to operating system which stole the industry? How much money have we given Microsoft without having a choice of where to spend it?

    This isn't a "Microsoft sucks" thing - it's a "Microsoft broke the law" thing. Just because the Bush administration asked the DOJ to back down doesn't mean it wasn't illegal. They were still found guilty.

    Thanks to this, we have Windows. We have an OS based on business, not technology. We the government buying it droves, which not only makes our national security at risk, but has actually caused battleships to "crash" (Anyone else remember the "smartship" that had to be dragged back to dock thanks to NT?)

    Nobody should be letting Microsoft off early, especially Windows users. Imagine how much better Windows would be if they had a little competition to keep them busy?

    inky

  31. Re:Boot Loader lockout workaround (hint hint OEMs. by ispel · · Score: 4, Interesting
    If I were an OEM, I could install both Linux and Windows on the same machine, and be able to offer my customers a simple multi-boot solution without having to modify the boot sector at all. It's called a boot disk. Insert this disk when you want to boot to Linux. The disk contains nothing more than SysLinux, which is set up to boot the linux partition off of the harddrive. There, OEM License problem is solved.

    The OEM Licensing agreement you are refering to is considered a trade secret. NOBODY but the legal teams at the OEMS are allowed to read it. Your idea assumes that the licensing agreement doesn't explicitly exclude the "loophole" you described.

    Okay, giving your idea the benefit of the doubt, Microsoft's OEM licensing agreements are contingent on the whim of Microsoft. If an OEM, and I'm not talking about Joe OEM, I'm talking about the big names, Gateway, Compaq, Dell, even look at Microsoft crosseyed, Microsoft may yoink their OEM license agreement, which would subsequently mean immediate death to said OEM. They can't afford to sell computers if they aquire Windows at a retail price. This means that Microsoft has a lot of leverage outside of their exclusionary licensing agreement that does not leave a lot of room for OEMs to be "creative".

    This topic is what Be's complaint is about. When Compaq announced that they were going to market a Internet Applicance running Be's BeIA, well, read this quote from Be's complaint:

    51. In October 1998, however, Compaq informed Be that it had disclosed information about the Be Internet appliance project to Microsoft. Later that same month, Microsoft Chairman
    Bill Gates visited Compaq CEO Eckhard Pfeiffer as part of a "Digital Appliances Review."
    52. In early November, under pressure from Microsoft, Compaq informed Be that it was no longer interested in licensing BeOS.

    Microsoft used monopoly illegaly (tried and convicted by the highest appeals court). Their control over OEMs extends past their written contracts.

  32. The registers coverage by DanielTeske · · Score: 3, Informative
  33. Re:Today Be employes a single person... by cruelworld · · Score: 3, Funny

    I think your tin-foil hat is out of alignment there buddy...

  34. Had the information for 3 years... by nick_davison · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "While Be, Inc had the information for over 3 years [..snip..] they filed a suit against Microsoft only today."

    If you read the press statement, it's for "for the destruction of Be's business". It would have been fairly hard for Be to sue Microsoft for destruction of their business three years before Microsoft had finally destroyed their business.

    When you're trying desperately to stay afloat and keep your shareholders on board, the last thing you do is publicly sue someone for having irreparably harmed you. Admitting that you're sunk simply guarantees you'll lose whatever remaining chances you have.

  35. Re:Boot Loader lockout workaround (hint hint OEMs. by Alderete · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, Be did exactly this. I know, because I wrote some of the docs for it.

    And guess what? It didn't work.

    The fact is, sticking in a floppy and a sheet of paper is vastly inferior to having the software appear in front of the user when they boot.

    So, you can get around the letter of the license agreement with this tactic, but you can't get the same market leverage. And it's market leverage that pays the bills, not a "clever" legal trick.

  36. Kind of funny seeing this on /. by sheldon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I recall all the articles posted to slashdot about BeOS, and how nearly every one of them was greeted by jeers and disgust.

    "Be wasn't free, it wasn't open source. Who wants to use that crap anyway?" was the response of the /. masses.

    Now the slashdot masses want to complain that Microsoft killed Be?

    This is hilarious. :-)

    1. Re:Kind of funny seeing this on /. by tswinzig · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I recall those same articles, but unlike you, I remember there being a lot of highly-rated responses that were also positive towards BeOS.

      It's annoying when people generalize like you did.

      --

      "And like that ... he's gone."
  37. Time to Gamble by Hangtime · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This reminds me of Nextwave in a lot of ways.

    BG: Nextwave was the company who bought the spectrum many of the cellular companies are deploying new services on. Well they didn't pay their bills and the FCC took back the spectrum and reauctioned it. Nextwave sued the FCC for taking it away and it dragged through court for about three years and Nextwave won. Now their worth a TON of money because, the Cingulars and Verizon's of the world already have service. Guess who the FCC has to buy from to get the spectrum back.

    Now let's apply this to the current situation. Be is currently worth about 4.4 million total right now in stock. Since the company doesn't really have any debt anymore roughly $1.5 million with most of that in current liabilities so the company is close to $3 million total.

    Roughly 130 million computers (got this off a CNN article correct if wrong) were sold last year. Now watch this. Judge finds that Be was killed by Microsoft. Take the previous two years of sales will say 225 million PCs. Judge says 150 million (round ball) were shipped by OEMs and Be considering its size would not be have penetrated no more then 2% of the market. That means they could have put their OS on 3 million computers. Ok, let's now say Be charged $25 for each copy (below MS because they are trying to gain market share and they will be considered an inferior product to most of the marketplace). Now we have at least a verdict of $75 million or roughly a 17x the current stock price. Of course Be is a penny stock at 12 cents and they very well could lose the case but if you got money that you would take to Vegas it might be worth a shot.

    BTW, we haven't even talked about the chance for punitive damages and if MS lost the case and decided to settle you could be looking at handsome pay day.

    HT

  38. Mod parent up by clontzman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Couldn't agree more... how can they be punished for being a monopoly when they legally *weren't* a monopoly until the court ruled them one? Since there's no standard for what makes a software monopoly, how was MS supposed to know when they became one?

    It might seem pedantic, but think about it -- nowhere else in the law (that I'm aware of) can you be punished retroactively to before your infraction was established.

  39. Re:About 20-40 billion smackers? by walt-sjc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Your example is meaningless. Sony is NOT a monopoly. Microsoft is. This makes ALL the difference. The abuse of that monopoly IS illegal under US law. Deal with it.

    Abuse of monopoly power to crush potential competition is what we are talking about here, not Be's advertising ability. OS/2 was killed the same way Be was killed, and Linux is being hurt as well (Linux adoption would be MUCH faster if it was available to all as a dual boot option.)

    Claiming that MS did nothing wrong is bullshit. This is a cut and dried case.

  40. Palm does not own Be by EnglishTim · · Score: 3, Informative

    Palm does not own Be. Be sold its assest to Palm.

  41. Silly Slashdotters :-) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Ok, having read through the comments on this article, one thing is crystal clear. The facts matter less than the opinions. So in that model, I'll throw out my speculation.



    Be, Inc did negotiate a preload deal, with a big vendor. The product actually did ship in limited quantities, after it got Microsoft'ed.



    Be, Inc. and Hitachi created the Prius 1, and neat little desktop for the Japanese market. It was going to be a dual boot, Windows 98, BeOS box, with the 2 operating systems side by side. Before it shipped however, Microsoft evidently went in an played hardball, forcing the preload to be modified in such a way that the BeOS bootloader couldn't be displayed until after Windows was running, and even then it was buried in a menu in the programs folder of the start menu. Now considering that most users don't even know how to get to the calculator, this is pretty much a death knell. The deal fell apart a couple months later.



    Now I'm not an insider to either company, but I've been around the industry and I've had enough exposure to make an educated guess about what happened. It probably went something like this.



    1. Be makes press release announcing deal and is queitly nearing deals with at least one major US Vendor, probably Gateway or Compaq.

    2. MS low level staffer tasked with watching the press wire sees the announcement and shuffles it into the channel for 'handling'

    3. Hitachi and Be spend a month or so working out the technical details and prepare the machine for shipping.

    4. The press release finally gets to the upper management at MS and the marketing and account relations machine goes into action. Considering Hitachi's size and volume in the the Pacific Rim, Steve Ballmer gets on a the phone with Hitachi's president and explains the 'hidden' costs of this preload deal. Namely no more discounts on MS Office, and discounted price of Windows just tripled. And oh yeah, if you reread your contract the we signed with you, Windows boot process cannot be alter in these methods. You are going to have to do it our way.

    5. Hitachi cannot fight this in a market that is operating on increasingly tight margins.

    6. MS sends out a private reminder of the preload agreement's fine print regarding bootloaders and dual booting non Windows Operating Systems. This effectively closes the US Vendor deals and seals Be's fate.

    7. Be begins the 'Focus Shift', attempting to invade the only market left open to them.

    8. Be discovers that the market that appeared open to them has a couple of entrenched players, and one entering the market that has assets and marketing to kill them.

    9. Be runs low on cash and begins the liquidation process.

    10. Part of the exit strategy is to liquidate all assets and IP, then using the entity, sue the snot out of MS.

    11. This would pave the way for Palm or whomever to then invade the x86 market once again.



    On a side note, as brilliant as Apple's Mac OS X is, all the furor about bringing to x86 presents the exact same stumbling blocks, and make it therefore a 'Bad Idea' (tm).



    Andy Satori

    dru@druware.com

  42. Re:About 20-40 billion smackers? by Brian+Kendig · · Score: 4, Informative

    Actually, didn't Be once make headlines by offering to give its operating system for free to any PC vendor who would sell BeOS preinstalled on its PC's? Either as the sole operating system on its PC's, or set up as a dual-boot with Windows?

    Still nobody took Be up on it. Even adding a free operating system to their PC's would have incurred so many penalties from Microsoft that no PC vendor wanted to take the hit.

  43. Re:About 20-40 billion smackers? by SomeoneGotMyNick · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Whining about BeOS not having a chance because of exposure is bullshit. Exposure is not and should not be free. Advertising, product placement, money, its all required to earn a place in the market. Microsoft's OS fought a lot of other OSes out there when PCs were becoming popular in the early nineties. (OS/2, etc.) Are we to take away that market share they earned through being smart businessmen because BeOS is a day late and a dollar short? I don't think so.


    Let me be the first to say that this is a pointless remark. Exposure, sure as h*ll can be free. More power to the companies that can make use of free exposure for their products.


    But companies like Microsoft force feed it to you with rhetoric that causes the average consumer to become dizzy enough to buy their products for fear of the uncertain.


    As a card carrying member of the 'John Q. Public Consumer Guild', I've wised up to the flashy and pushy advertisements for products. I've learned to look past all that and try to understand how the product really works. There will be more consumers like me in the near future. Pretty soon flashy advertising won't work anymore. Then Microsoft will have to stand on their own merits.


    BeOS may have been a day late and dollar short, but they did set a precidence that all consumers may not be aware of now, but will be soon. Then you'll see future 'BeOS' getting a fair chance due to free exposure.


    Maybe someday a new advertising concept of some sort will come out and will be licensed as GPL or BSD-like to offer the free chance these companies need on a fair playfield.

  44. Re:About 20-40 billion smackers? by flatrock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seriously, MS has already been found guilty of being a monopoly.

    I'm kind of nitpicking words here, but being a monopoly is not something you're found guilty of. Being a monopoly isn't a crime.

    I remember so many PC makers who tried to offer Be on a pc till Microsoft totally went agro on the makers and made them stop.

    I did hear something about this, but I didn't thing there were many, or that they were big companies. The reason computer companies would want to offer BeOS on their computers is to differentiate them from the competition. The downside of offering it is support costs. Don't underestimate how much supporting BeOS would cost a big name manufacturer. They contract out their support, and every call cuts into their low profit margins. Training a support staff enough to be useful on BeOS would be an expensive task, and the contractors are going to pass that price on to the computer companies.

    BE never had a chance, and the OS from my point of view was incredible.

    I never used BeOS, but it would have to be truely incredible to have even a slight chance. Most people with computers want the same OS that everyone else is using. That fact is the true barrier to entry for new OSs. I've heard from some people that BeOS definately shined in some areas, but even if Microsoft just ignored it, I doubt it stood a chance. Microsoft has a monopoly because they won the first round of the PC OS wars, and the nature of the OS business is that it works out easiest for everyone it they're all using the same one. Microsoft also doesn't sit still. They constantly work to make Windows better. They definately don't do that flawlessly, but they have definately done an exellent job on making their user interface easy to use, and they keep working on making it better.

    Be may very well have a case. Microsoft may very well abused it's monopoly position out of paranoia. However, it's unlikely that the damages are in the billions if they are guilty. It's more likely that they crushed a niche OS that may have been able to make millions more. If they did that, they should be punished, and the damages trippled acording to law.

    In the short run, a lot of economy professors will be making money as expert witnesses, and lawyers will get rich.