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Class Action Lawsuit Says PayPal Restricted Funds
trenton writes: "CNET News.com reports a class-action law suit was filed Wednesday in California Superior Court in Santa Clara County. The suit charges PayPal with illegitimately restricting customers' access to their money. The suit asks for an unspecified amount of damages. Have you been ripped off or locked out?"
I can hear the price dropping now...
I have used Paypal exactly once. And exactly once I got ripped off. Not a good record.
Now I was ripped off by the seller, not PayPal, so I think PayPal should have the right to do whatever it takes to stop fraud.
seems the editors think any bad thing a company does violates your "rights".
i'm extremely concerned because i've heard stories of users getting paid with stolen credit cards... what does paypal do?
assume you stole the card and try to launder the money to yourself, so they freeze and seize all money in your account AND bank account if you made a withdrawl
now i'm nervous to even accept paypal for anything
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
Bastards did the same thing to me Monday. They completely botched my transaction because it was a time-is-of-the-essence matter. They accepted the credit card payment, then put a pending reversal on it the next day. I almost shipped the item I had sold, but luckily checked my email before doing so. They haven't even responded to my inquiry about the funds.
Hmm. Let's see. They don't want to abide by the rules that banks have to follow, yet they want to screw their customers even worse than a bank. Sounds like they want to have their cake and eat it too.
Does anyone have any info on how to become part of this class action suit?
"You done taken a wrong turn."
-Bill McKinney, in Deliverance
Visit PayPalSucks.com for an entire community pissed off at PayPal.com's practices.
I accept paypal for both merchandise and for subscription services on my website [warnign pr0n] and have never had a problem with paypal, but I do feel like they give more protection to me as a seller than to people who use paypal to buy things. I have only had one dispute with someone who purchased something from my site, but paypal bent over backwards to help me prove that the dispute brought against me was false, and made it very easy for me to supply them with documentation proving the user received what he ordered from my site. ] Although that might have to do with them wanting to protect their commision. spooky
yes i run a goth/punk/emo porn site.
I bought a bunch of their stock
All those people sending us their credit card numbers weren't venture capitalists?
Oops.
The service they provide is excellent, but that should not be confused with the level of service they provide, which, I must say is sorely lacking.
They have buggy software. This means on occasion, more money is withdrawn from your non-PayPal accounts then you authorized them to take. Giving them access to your checking account is a horrible thing to do, double-dipping is widespread and if you have any checks that need clearing, well......you are in trouble - assuming they haven't overdrawn your account in the first place (did it to me).
Due to the sheer size of their user-base, and their inability to correct their problems, much less deal with the number of complaints generated by things that aren't their fault (action sellers taking money and running, for example) they've taken to a scorched Earth manner of dealing with problems.
Any sign of trouble - your account is frozen - along with any money that might be there. Too bad if you're in the middle of a huge transaction involving lots of money that you really can't afford to lose.
This is like using a nuclear device to wipe out an ant infestation. It causes much more damage to innocent users than you could possibly imagine.
You have a problem, even if it is their fault they might not fix it. Wait more than 30 days to complain that they stole your money and guess what? The money is gone forever, you will never get it back. They will not allow you to file a complaint about their rape of your checking account if you wait more than a few weeks.
To sum it up, PayPal provides a great service, but they have shown themselves to be incapable of actually providing that service with any great degree of reliability or accountability.
This lawsuit has been a long time coming. More power to the plaintiffs.
Now, maybe this doesn't happen in every case. And maybe if you accept funds from unverified users you don't get protection. But I just want people to know that every fraudulent transaction doesn't result in Paypal seizing your account.
On the other hand, they are very difficult to get in touch with except by email (which we all know is easy to ignore). This is somehting that should definitely be improved upon.
Still, I like paypal. If you want complete control, I suggest you get a merchant account. Frozen paypal accounts are, I believe, rare. And I think they involve more than just a simple charge back in most cases.
NoPayPal is a site that made me avoid getting a Pay Pal account. I think Pay Pal is a great idea, however the business practices that is being portrayed is piss poor. Is there any competitors out there?
"It takes many nails to build a crib, but one screw to fill it."
This happened to the leader of the Webplayer Co-op a couple years ago.
We had a hundred or so people send him money via PayPal to make the WebPlayer order. They suspected something was fishy and froze his account. You can read the thread from the Webplayer Co-op egroup here.
Eventually they straightened it out, the WebPlayers were shipped and we received them, but PayPal sure delayed the process.
Hmmm, I'm detecting a pattern here...
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Not a debit card or checking account. If they screw you over with an unwarranted credit card charge, your can call your credit card company and stop payment on it. If they pulled money out of your checking account (either directly or through a debit card), you're pretty much screwed (good luck trying to get your bank to do anything about it).
FWIW, using a credit card for most purchases is actually good advice, because it avoids all sorts of frauds and other problems (for example, a restaurant in a foreign country once charged my card twice; I guess they thought since I wasn't from around there I couldn't come back and complain. The CC company removed the fraudulent second charge after a simple phone call...if I had paid with a debit card it would've been a real pain to try to get my money back). This is provided, of course, that you are disciplined enough to pay your credit card bill on time to avoid going into debt and paying high interest rates.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Just today I got a reply from paypal(less than a week turnaround - they're really ansewering email now). They've locked my account because one of the credit cards was stolen and I discovered this when I tried to use it with paypal when it was over the credit limit. They weren't out any money, and they already had another credit card on file.
I've used paypal since the begining (when it was a way to send money with your palm pilot) and always thought it was a great service, untill this incident. Luckily I've never stored money in my paypal account and I've never given them my checking account information(mama didn't raise no fool). With their form letter response today, It's looking like it's time to investigate the paypal alternatives that will be happy to have my business.
To unfreeze it, I needed to fax them:
Despite the glaring violation of privacy, I did get the account unfrozen in under 24 hours, and I did find them easy to communicate with. However, I do believe that Paypal needs to be regulated as much as your local bank.
I've had very good luck buying and selling with PayPal. I just wish I could get a debit card. I have a verified bank account with them but because they require a verified credit card and I don't use credit cards I seem unable to get a debit card. I'd love to be able to use PayPal as my main bank as I do most my shopping online and accept most my payments for my contract work as PayPal payments. It's a pain waiting 3-4 days to transfer to my bank so that I can pay for rent and food.
:)
I've been screwed by every big name bank I've had so I for one don't want PayPal to be more like a normal bank. I'm perfectly satisfied with them so far other than them being to careful with my money.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
I just discovered it while reading a Salon article on PayPal's weak service. Apparently, it's run by Citibank, a REAL bank, so you'll less likely to get fucked over by them. (Keyword: less; banks still try to ram a dildo up your ass once in a while.)
Zodiac Survey
Ummmm...to pay lawyers and law suit plaintiffs, meybe? Just like a real IT buinsess does these days.
;^D
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
I for one have never had a problem with PayPal, and I've been using them for over a year and a half. I've needed to contact them for support exactly once (yesterday). Get this...I call the phone number and a REAL PERSON answers the phone on FIRST RING! Not only that, but they are courteous and helpful and resolved my problem in under 20 minutes. I've never had such a good support experience in my life.
`fortune -o`
I am a satisfied customer of paypal too. I've had no problem with the various small transactions that I've had with them.
But after after visiting paypalsucks.com and the other websites and reading some of the stories a definite pattern emerges.
It is clear that paypal has a lot of problems, and I would be stupid to trust them with my money knowing what I now know. You would be too. The question is what are you willing to risk?? Also, they _are not_ a bank - so if anything does go wrong, you're out of luck. There is no FDIC - so if they were to file chapter 11 you would never see your money.
I will look for other services for direct pay. I'm sure that with paypals impending demise alternatives will arise to fill the gap.
Here's a couple;
https://secure.ikobo.com/
http://www.upspayment.com/
http://banking.yahoo.com/
Also, many _real_ banks are implementing online banking. You should see if any local banks in your area are online and see what services they offer. With a real bank you have FDIC insurance.
Read the Terms Of Service before you join up with anything.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
...has been anything less than fun. Somehow someone got my password and changed my primary email address, thus not allowing me into my account. Luckily I caught the e-mail that this happened (at least PayPal notifies you of that, even though everything else sucks....) and immediately transferred all of my money out of my savings account that PayPal was linked to, I then called the bank and they said they'd watch my account and I should open a new one to be safe. I also wrote to PayPal, but didn't get a response until 4 days later. By that time, someone has already tried to withdraw over $900 from my account. And guess what they told me to do in their support e-mail, they told me to log into my account and fix it! Hello! If the problem is my account was stolen and the username/pw changed then I obviously can't!
Luckily my bank is being good about it and are not charging me for those overdrawn withdrawals. Needless to say, I will never use PayPal again, nor will I ever recommend it to anyone! Avoid it like the plague!
Two wrongs don't make a right, three lefts do!
By sending the minimal payment you confirm that you receive statements at your billing address and that you can pay some money.
If an auction seller screws you over one way or the other, eBay's complaint process is rather lame and PayPal literally can't do a damn thing for you (speaking from experience here).
However, if you spare a little more money to mail them a money order instead, what they did magically turns into something called "mail fraud." Federal agents wearing dark suits and carrying badges begin looking for this person to throw them into pound-you-up-the-ass penetentiary for up to five years (multiplied by however many other people he's ripped off through the mail).
Of course, if this is the first and last time they defrauded someone through the mail, there's a chance the Postal Inspectors might not have the time to really give it much attention. But just because they're not activley seeking the person doesn't mean there's not a felony warrant issued for the culprit, which will make employment background checks, driver's license renewals and plane ticket purchases a whole lot more interesting. And that's before we wonder how often he gets pulled over for traffic violations...
I ask you: If you don't wholly trust who you're buying from, where can you get more entertainment for $1.24? Certainly not PayPal!
I had a seller back out on me after I'd already paid. Paypal was supposed to refund the $$ to me but refused. They said there was nothing I could do about it. I told the woman on the phone (after numerous calls) that there sure as hell was something I could do about it. I made the payment with me bank's check card. My bank's check card is a Visa Check Card and it affords all the same protection that any other card carrying the Visa logo carries, including fruad protection. I told her all of that and that I'd simply contest the charge and let Visa sort it out for me. She immediately told me to hold on the line and transfered me elsewhere. A guy quickly answered and was pissed from the word go. He was all but yelling. He spewed out some dribble about how if I contested the charge, their many lawyers on retainer would bring a suit against me and this and that and on and on and on. I laughed at him. Literally. And I told him I was contesting the charges immediately and a few other choice phrases. I contested the charges, my bank account was credited by the bank, and I never heard another peep about it. Screw me? No, screw you paypal.
Every post that moderators have bumped up have been negative experiences. What about those of us who have had positive ones?
I have used PayPal for a year now. I have done probably over 1,000 transactions of people sending me money and me purchasing goods. I have not ONCE had a problem with their service.
I've paid for many things through PayPal and using my debit card. I have never been overcharged. I have never had funds taken out of my bank account that were not authorized. I've never had a problem. I've never had a person take my money and run.
Those who post here about their bad experiences are a vocal minority. People tend to speak up when they have a problem with a service, but say nothing when the service is good. PayPal would not be in business in the first place if they weren't doing something right.
Of course there are people who have had problems with PayPal, it happens at every company -- but I think it is unfair to PayPal to have only negative posts regarding their company moderated up for all to see when really there are many, many more happy customers than customers who are not satisfied with the service.
I'm a firm supporter of PayPal, I have done probably over $10,000 in transactions with them with absolutely no problems.
which has a wall of shame full of horror stories.
.1% have a problem, that is 13K people with only 400 Customer Service Reps. So the hold time is 30 minutes and often they just rudely say "You violated terms or conditions", or "Fax us all your identity papers - bank account, utility bill, driver's license", then they seem to have a part-time fax, and they constantly lose the faxes (apparently they haven't thought about things like case numbers).
The problem is that with 13M users, if
Meanwhile your account is locked without anything you can do about it, often for reasons you don't know or know to be false (a buyer pays, but PYPL thinks something is wrong with it and/or the seller and locks both).
When it works, it's fine. But if they ever lock an account (and you don't have to do anything) it is a nightmare.
I went to the eBay Smart Search page and entered "no paypal" and checked the buttons to also search descriptions. It matched 61367 items. Interesting. I'm sure the number will change every minute.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
For those of you who want to sign up for this suit, here is the link [jacobylawyers.com] to the lawyers registration form.
:)
Okay, since I'm talking about lawyers here, I'll qualify this by saying that I'm about to state an opinion. So don't sue me, okay?
This law firm, who is handling this class action suit, is little more than a bunch of ambulance-chasers. These guys have advertised here on KTLA and KCAL since I was a little kid. They always seemed creepy and slimy to me, like that Larry H. Parker guy...even as a kid, I wondered why good lawyers would need to advertise on TV.
Someone else said it here, someplace...doesn't it strike anyone else as strange that this suit was filed right after the IPO? That just sort of stinks to me.
Also, I've been using PayPal for a few months, to accept payment for some eBay auctions, and I've never had a single problem with them. Of course, I think I've had a grand total of 6 or so transactions, so YMMV.
After reading all of this, however, I'm getting my 50 bucks out tonight.
Or spending it on my own copy of GTA 3.
dyndns.org has been accepting PayPal as our main source of income for quite some time now - we've had probably over $200,000 pass through PayPal without a single problem. In fact, yesterday they called to tell me that we've been assigned a dedicated account manager, with a secret VIP phone number and direct e-mail address and everything. So it seems that, at least to their larger customers, they're at least TRYING to improve the customer service.
All of these lawsuits and threats from states are sure making us nervous, though, and due to various other things we were probably dropping PayPal soon - that timeline's just been moved up now. But I agree with what someone said or at least alluded to earlier; even if 10,000 people have had problems like this, that's only a tiny fraction of PayPal's actual userbase, and that's pretty impressive to me.
Perhaps they're dedicating too many of their staff to providing "dedicated" account managers to their bigger "VIP" accounts. They have special phone numbers ("don't give this out to anyone else, it's just for our special VIP customers") and real e-mail addresses and everything. They seem to be staff at the same (or yet another) call center out in Omaha, Nebraska, anyway, though - the home of telephone support outsourcing!