Interview with Pete Seeger
by
dadaist
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· Score: -1
Interview with Pete Seeger
Press for Conversion! subscriber and patron of the Coalition to Oppose the Arms Trade, Pete Seeger was interviewed on May 9, 1995 by Richard Sanders. Future issues will feature interviews with other subscribers.
P4C: I wanted to ask about the role of music in conveying important messages.
PS: This is often asked of me and I can't prove a god-damned thing. All I can do is quote people through history who said that music is important. Plato said it is very dangerous for the wrong kind of music to be allowed in the Republic. We know that the Catholic Church tried to control music for a thousand years or more and most countries try and keep revolutionary music off the air. There are cases of songs which, Anatol France says, have overthrown empires. He was probably thinking of La Marseillaise. The song Lilly Bolero is said to have cost King James the throne. It was a hilarious, very danceable little tune. People could dance while they sang it. It spread through England, Scotland and Ireland.
P4C: You have your own experiences of being kept off the radio and TV. During the McCarthy era you were blacklisted. They must have thought you were a threat.
PS: It was part of the stupidity of that time. Now, they do the same thing but in much more clever and subtle ways. They say, "Oh yes you can say anything you want but of course prime time is very expensive and we only put stuff on what people want to hear, which will make money." In effect, songs are blacklisted now. I don't get asked on TV that often.
P4C: This week, many people around the world are thinking back to the end of the WWII and events of 50 years ago. What significance do you attach to those events and perhaps you could also reflect on the way they're being dealt with in the media.
PS: Well, I confess I was not optimistic and never have been. As long as the capitalist system is around, there will be people wanting to take advantage of it to push there own agenda. Have you ever heard this quote from Abraham Lincoln? It was written in a letter to somebody on Nov. 21, 1864: "We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war, which has cost a vast treasure of blood and money, is almost over but I see in the future a crisis approaching that fills me with anxiety. As a result of the war, corporations have become enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow. The moneyed power of the country will endeavour to prolong its rule by preying upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is concentrated in a few hands and the Republic destroyed. I feel at this time more anxiety for the future than at any time in the past, even in the midst of war."
So, I confess, I was not optimistic at the end of WWII. I appreciated the fact that they were trying to start the UN but, after all, they tried to start the League of Nations after WWI and it didn't have much success either. Now, we have individuals in the U.S. who have more annual incomes than the budgets of many small countries.
P4C: How accurate do you think Lincoln's projections were of today?
PS: I think that the world is in greater danger than it's ever been because science and technology have made weapons so much more available. As we saw in Oklahoma, you can make a weapon out of fertilizer now. However, good things can come from bad and maybe when the world realizes the danger we're in, we'll be a lot more careful about talking angrily to each other and about any killing.
The date of the shooting at Waco should be remembered. It was one of the most stupid things done by the Clinton administration. You can't blame the President entirely, he's busy on a million things. He assumed that the FBI and the Justice Department would know how to handle it. But they did screwy things like playing the most unnerving music outside, blasting it at these people and trying to make them go crazy. They should have played beautiful hymns to calm them down.
I think that people who try to destroy their enemies are very foolish. I was once in the presence of somebody who said, "I wish somebody would assassinate Reagan," and a much more sensible person said, "I hope I will never hear such a suggestion as long as I live." This stupid person shut up immediately. Reagan was one of the worst presidents that this country ever had and we'll be paying for his foolishness and crimes for a long while. But assassination is not the answer.
I hope Reagan lives long enough to know how foolish he was and to see the Republican party repudiated. He's in good health but I'm afraid with Alzeimers he won't be really conscious. They'll say, "Mr. Reagan, the Republican party is having a meeting and we hardly know how to tell you but they are giving speeches regretting that you were their president." He says, "huh huh huh, what's a party?" He'll be ninety five or a hundred at the time.
P4C: Do you support the Democrats?
PS: I support them when they do something good. I think that Clinton has made so many mistakes that its hard to support him much. If he learns something from his past two years and changes, I might support him in the next election.
Basic to the saving of democracy is how people vote. I'm convinced that the powers that be are glad to see 67% of America not bothering to vote. Nobody polls them because they'll find out how many have given up on government. They think that the Democrats are as bad as the Republicans.
P4C: There's some truth to that. Democrats aren't that much different. You might even say they're not as honest as Republicans in saying what they really believe.
PS: Politicians cannot be as honest as they'd like to be and get elected. That's one of the faults of our system. It's winner take all. Proportional representation would make it possible to be much more honest and still get elected. Back in the 1930s and '40s we had two communists on the New York City Council. They'd say, "Sure I'm a communist but we have a hundred thousand communists in New York City. Why shouldn't I be on the City Council?"
P4C: Do you have any memories from during the war that you'd like to share?
PS: Well I must confess, I'm no great pundit. The significance of Hiroshima did not really filter through to me for a couple of months, until I started having nightmares about it. When I first heard it, I was just thinking, "Well, war is horrible thing; it's horrible to bomb a city, but it's horrible to kill anybody." I played a banjo through WWII. It was my big contribution to winning the war against fascism, pickin' a banjo.
P4C: What sort of songs were you pickin'?
PS: Oh, I sang soldier songs mostly, and pop songs and the occasional old country songs and old folk songs. I'd get a crowd singing with me. Once in awhile, I'd sing a song about Hitler, like "Dear Mr. President." When first in the army I won an amateur contest singing, "Round and round Hitler's grave he won't get up no more."
P4C: How do you view that experience?
PS: Well, you learn from everything. It was very educational. I've been kind of a pacifist most of my life, a pacifist kind of a communist. I think, if I'd been smart, I would have joined A.J.Muste, who'd been a communist but then quit. He said the problem with revolutionaries is they don't realize that when they take power by force of arms, they try to maintain power by force of arms. The next thing you know, they're shooting at each other. P4C: How has the peace movement changed over the years that you've been associated with it.
PS: In the first place, beware of the definite article "t h e." I think the human race and the English language might be better without it. The truth, the revolution, the lord, the church, the reason. The peace movement was one thing in the thirties, another in the forties, another in the fifties and another in the sixties. The peace movement is definitely growing. I think what you are doing is absolutely wonderful. I hope you are growing. Churches are getting involved. The terrible bombing in Oklahoma is going to be educational to many. Some church people are realizing, there are those who claim to be Christians but who are all for killing. It may make people think twice about supporting any kind of killing.
Margaret Mead, the anthropologist, had a great line. She said, "Progress is when the proportion of people rises that thinks that it's a bad thing to take human life." She didn't mention more health, more money, more housing, more food, more communication. I agree with her 100%.
P4C: If you were president, how would you reinvest the nation's vast resources.
PS: I think I would first of all take the money out of the information business. I would not completely outlaw private TV but would demand that in return for using the people's air, that TV stations give a huge amount of free time for political campaigns and that other advertising be outlawed. Herbert Hoover said, "It is unthinkable that our airwaves are controlled by advertising." As president, I'd say, "Let's open up our airwaves to all sorts of opinions. If the far right has opinions, let them be heard. If the far left has opinions, let them be heard. If upside down people want to be heard or right side up people, let them be heard." It may be confusing to some but in the long run we'll learn how to talk with each other. People who say stupid things will find they have a limited audience.
I would immediately start discussing proportional representation and quit this system of winner take all. A friend of mine in Holland, said "Oh you Americans have two political parties. That's just one more than the Soviets had. We have twenty." How do they govern? By coalitions. Instead of having to lie to put your coalition together, you know you're dealing with skilled politicians, so you say, "Look I'll vote for this, if you vote for that." It doesn't make heaven on earth but it makes for a more peaceful country.
Let me reiterate that what you are doing is right at the cutting edge of the future because I believe that within the next ten years we're going to have to start limiting arms more. What's going on now at the UN is absolutely shocking. I spoke with Daniel Ellsberg recently. He says the U.S. is just stonewalling and other countries are just astonished. They say, "Aren't you willing to say that you look forward to someday not having any atom bombs?" "No, we can't say that." "Aren't you willing to say that you won't use the atom bomb first?" "Oh, no, we can't say that." The U.S. is not willing to make a single concession. It's shocking. Other nations are dumbfounded.
P4C: Well perhaps someday there will be a global movement to boycott the U.S., just as there was one to boycott South Africa.
PS: Its very possible. I have almost weekly talks with friends who are so discouraged they feel like leaving the country as they did during the Vietnam war.
P4C: Is that because of the rise of the Republicans and the right wing?
PS: Yes, I remind them that the Republicans only had 17% of the votes. Only 33% of the electorate voted. Democrats got 16% and Republicans got 17%. That's their great mandate.
P4C: Did anyone ever ask you to run?
PS: Oh, I've been asked occasionally but they were very foolish to ask me. I am not a good organizer at all. I get ideas but I don't know how to follow them up. My life is a chaos of uncompleted projects. Fortunately, one or two of them have succeeded.
To order Pete's book, Where Have All the Flowers Gone? (complete with 200 songs) contact Sing Out, at (610) 865-5366.
SOURCE: "Press for Conversion!", Spring (Issue # 21) May 1995.
"Press for Conversion!" is published electronically and in hard- copy format by the Coalition to Oppose the Arms Trade (COAT). For more information, contact: COAT, 489 Metcalfe St., Ottawa ON K1S 3N7 Tel.: (613) 231-3076 Fax: (613) 231-2614 E-mail: ad207@freenet.carleton.ca
--
~
MU!
Re:Interview with Pete Seeger
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
wow. thanks for that. illuminating.
no sarcasm here, none intended.
Re:Interview with Pete Seeger
by
dadaist
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· Score: -1
And your mother.
--
~
MU!
Re:Interview with Pete Seeger
by
Mode0x13
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· Score: -1
Really, I thought better of you, dadaist. This is just the same old shit. Another burned out leftist talks about how much he hates the republicans, rich people, and basically everyone who doesn't believe the same things as he does(hmm... he doesn't like many people does he?). Another hypocrite.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, he included some idiotic comments about how Waco was the governments fault (say what?) and the U.S. should unilaterally disarm (huh?).
People who say stupid things will find they have a limited audience.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... really! I'm in tears... keep strumming those tunes, Petey boy! I'm sure you'll have an audience among the "limited" people at slashdot... and boy, there are a lot of them! hahaha...
Re:Interview with Pete Seeger
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
and *your* mother. and your mother's mother.
but, you knew that.
Re:Interview with Pete Seeger
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
ha ha ha, and ha.
you congenital moron... surprised you could dig out from under your rock long enough to post your semi-literate garbage.
eat McShit and die. thanks.
Re:Interview with Pete Seeger
by
dadaist
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· Score: -1
I don't know. Do you think this is a big deviation from the posting of the "Internationale" lyrics? My aim is to prevent understanding, in a sense. To display the deliberately incongrous. In this case, a musician commenting on Slashdot is pretty out of place. Lyrics to the socialist international anthem is also incongrous, because of the overwhelming number of libertarians on this site. It fits for me. Sorry if it doesn't for you.
--
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MU!
Re:Interview with Pete Seeger
by
Mode0x13
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· Score: -1
Actually I am more like a little kid, lifting up the rock to see what foul things scurry underneath. And you have not disappointed me.
I suppose you think you're a "rebel," because you hate corporations/the government/closed source/whatever? In reality, you're just another gullible peon, with no clue about what's actually going on. Let me give you a clue: Ralph Nader and RMS's ideas have very little to do with reality. There's nothing wrong with having both large and small corporations provide jobs and services to people... or with letting other people express their opinions, even if it's not what you want to hear. The slashdot editors, and you yourself, grasp neither of these concepts.
I hate you people just as much as the radical right, and for the same reason: because you are so damned self-righteous, but so entirely clueless.
Re:Interview with Pete Seeger
by
Mode0x13
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· Score: -1
I'm sorry-- I didn't know that your intention was to present incongruity. Political commentary is ususally pretty inflammatory on slashdot, whatever the cause.
I just don't have the motivation to do the lyrics thing anymore. Sigh. I get more and more depressed every day. I really need a girlfriend. It's Saturday night at 1AM and I'm sitting here with my dick in my hand and posting to fucking Slashdot. Are there any chicks out there who would like to wrap their lips around a below-average sized penis? I promise it'll only be a 3 minute job.. Fuck..
Re:Fuck it
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Troll
why dont you just get a dog?
Re:Fuck it
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Troll
Are there any
chicks out there who would like to wrap their lips around a below-average sized penis?
I promise it'll only be a 3 minute job..
it has to be chick?
or would a young boy be also acceptable?
There's a few words I couldn't make out, but the mp3 is now in alt.binaries.sounds.mp3
Wonder Woman! Wonder Woman!
All the world is waiting for youuuu And the power you possess In your satin tights Fighting for your rights And the old red white and blue!!!
Wonder Woman! Wonder Woman!
Now the world is ready for you And the wonders you can do Make a hawk a dove Stop a war with love Make a [something] tell the truth
Wonder Woman! You don't [stop world hunger?] Wonder Woman! All our hopes are pinned upon you And the magic that you do Stop a bullet cold Make the axis fold Change their minds And change the world!!!
Wonder Woman! Wonder Woman!
You're a wonder Wonder Woman!
Re:Fuck it
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
Hey, I found that song the other day on some abandoned mp3 server. Check it out here
Hey, guess what? I am one day away from dropping out of college and I am sitting posting to invisible people at slashdot too.
You know what? I feel a lot better now that I know I am either going to make a better effort or I am going to stop this charade. The simple act of making a decision has really opened my eyes, and if I need to stop college so I can be a lot more sane then I will do that, damn all those who frown upon it. I went to class on Friday and felt so terrible that I have a hard time remembering being there at all. I have three tests that I have not yet studied for. You know what? Either I do or I don't. No big deal. I can live with my parents or I can get a shitty job for a while or I can buck up tomorrow and study my ass off.
I guess what I am saying is that you have to wonder if you REALLY NEED A GIRLFRIEND or not. Are you actually interested in another person, or are you just reading magazines that tell you that you should be. Having a girlfriend takes a lot more effort, and it can get you dug in even deeper. Maybe you are socially inept. Hell, I sure am, but I don't give a shit about finding a girlfriend because 99% of people annoy the shit out of me.
Find out what you absolutely have to do and then do it. Even if it is extreme in every way. My friend at MIT is getting a sex change, god bless him.
Buck up, lyrics guy. At least you amuse people. And if you don't want to, it's not like the people at slashdot will get angry. Take up whittling. Make a chair. Just search for something you love.
Thank you for your concern reguarding my sutiation. Unfortunately your comment was directed at the wrong person. You are instead looking for this faggot, not me.
I'm more into older hairy men. See you in #bearcave, daddy!
Re:Fuck it
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
NO, you dirty man, with a below average penis. Chicks dig dogs, and if they see that you have one, you might get lucky and score. Ofcourse, if that doesnt happen, you can always try the peanut butter on balls trick. Although, in my experience I find that day old eggnog works better.
Re:Fuck it
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
Ok, nice try, but that didn't even make sense. Is that link to a jpg supposed to be an mp3? mp3 server?
How about a pic titled something like "wonderwoman" with a comment like "here's the original idea for her costume lol!" or "I think you can see a nipple ROFL!!"
Wow. I honestly never thought I'd get a response like that. What are you studying in college? I think I'm too old to get into college now. I thought I could get by on my elite computer skills during the dotCom era (graduated HS in 98) and for a while I did. But now no one is hiring unless you have 10+ years experience and you Know People(tm); now I'm working for some relatives doing blue collar grunt work. The work isn't bad, actually, I like it.
Now that I think about it, you are correct in questioning my need for a girlfriend. I'm not really interested in another person. It just gets so fucking boring and lonely here behind the screen. And again, you're correct in the socially inept thing. I talk about pussy all day but if I was next to a chick laying spread-eagle on my bed I wouldn't know the first thing to do. What a disappointment reality is.
I don't know what I absolutely have to do yet. But the years keep chugging by and pretty soon it'll be too late.
Your friend at MIT wouldn't happen to be another/. troll, would it? If so, I'm shocked. He didn't seem like.. that type.
Thanks for taking time to talk with me. Then again, not like you had much taking up your time at this moment either.
Re:Fuck it
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
wow, you have truly inspired me. Are you a jedi troll? Becuase if you are, I want to be your padawan. You can teach me all about the Force(d Anus), how to attack a slashbot and why BSD is really dying.
Re:Fuck it
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
hey, that was decent... nice display of honest humanity.
I am taking engineering Physics at probably one of the only schools that offers engineering physics - University of Illinois (read: really good physics program). I really love it, the professors rule, but I have/had? no ability whatsoever to either study, take tests or do homework earlier then the day it is/was? due. So far I have coasted into junior + 1/2 status and really want to take things seriously, but I get really depressed whenever I get graded and end up all whacked out. Last week I stopped doing any homework even though I had a good idea how to do it. I am taking anti-depressants, they helped for a while, but they seem to have lost their effect. By a cruel twist of fate I am going to talk to a doctor the day I take one of my fate deciding tests, so I will be either fucked by then or not. My parents realize I am fucked up and I think they would rather see me drop out then other...extreme action on my part. Sometimes I feel like throwing my monitor out of the window, but I am really sure that if I stick with it, life will eventually get around to rewarding me.
My MIT friend is not a Troll - but he is close to the people who run bonsaikitten.com.
Hand. HST. Whatever thingy indicating that this was a troll.
--
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MU!
Re:Fuck it
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
I'm just suggesting that you put a little more effort into it. Some people actually look at the link before clicking.
And really, who cares about bsd?
Re:Fuck it
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You guys are in exactly the same position I was in (and partially still am) a year ago.
I went to a large midwestern engineering school in the middle of a cornfield for a CS degree (if I mention the name, there are people possibly reading who will know who I am and I'd like to avoid that; suffice it to say that it's on roughly the same level of quality and reputation as U of I-Champaign). I did practically nothing but download warez and porn and DivX's and post to various message boards. I spent nearly every weekend night in my dorm, doing all this.
Meanwhile, my roommate and his gf were out with a bunch of friends having fun, or watching a DivX in our room, or having sex behind my back in his bed...
Meanwhile, I had no inclination (as a freshman no less) to do any homework whatsoever.
To say I was depressed would be an understatement - I was seriously considering suicide (nobody else knew I was considering it though - I knew if I mentioned it to anybody I'd be locked away in the loony bin) by the time I left the school with a near-failing GPA.
But I decided to see where life would take me. And while it hasn't been easy or fun, and frankly a it's been a total PITA and humiliation trip, it's been good for me.
I started off going to work for a Linux startup that went bankrupt not long after 9/11, thinking the real world would be better. In some ways, it was (some adults are actually pretty cool), but in other ways, it sucked far far worse than college (waking up at 5a.m. to catch a train, then coming home on the train at 6p.m. sucks ass!). We were eventually all laid off, so I decided to go back to school at a community college.
So what happens? I took a full semester's worth of work in half the time -- and got straight A's doing it! Granted, 1/4 of the credit I was taking was total bullshit (like "intro to the Internet" - oh no!), but the other 3/4 of the credit was roughly 50-90% as difficult as in a real university. I was shocked to find out how well I'd done.
This semester, at the same CC is much the same, although I suck at math *badly*, and so I'm likely going to drop and retake Calculus2, seeing as there's no penalty for dropping classes like there were at the big Uni. Otherwise, my grades are quite good once again.
Do I have a girlfriend? Well, the fact that I'm posting on/. at 4a.m. on a Sat. night should answer that question... no, I don't, and never have had one.:( Although I've been "friends with benefits" with a few girls here and there, but that's not the same thing. I'd like to find love, but I have higher priorities at the moment.
What's my current attitude for success? Forget finding women at a community college, because they really are as stupid as the imbeciles you remember from high school, and concentrate on working hard and focusing on the homework at hand.
After all -- if you can't make it at a CC, quite honestly, you're not gonna make it anywhere else. Fortunately, CC's are nearly as easy as high school.:)
Summary: Forget the women until your grades come up. You won't be able to take care of the women or make them happy (with money typically) until you have the degree that says you deserve big bucks anyway, so that might as well be your primary focus. You gotta think like the A-Team -- there's *always* a solution to every problem, and it feels great when "a plan comes together.":)
So make a plan -- I planned to go to school, but a decent job offer came up so I took it, but that failed so I went back to school after seeing RL sucks, and was more motivated than ever before in my entire life, mainly because I had nothing left to lose.
Although, there is a LOT to be said for getting women now, because someday, it really *is* going to be too late.
Basically, life sucks, it's true, and don't ever forget it. But at the same time, try to channel your depression and anger at the hand life has dealt you into something productive. You wouldn't believe just how effective a strong "fuck the world" attitude - properly channeled of course - can be at being at least academically successful (and it actually helped me meet a nice girl, but unfortunately our interests are total opposites (she hates computers and I *live* for computers), so nothing really is resulting from it).
The worst part about all of what I've said is this: you won't realize I'm right until you've experienced all this failure yourself. Trust me on this one, that's exactly what I found out.
I can't say I'm a success story yet because I'm not done with my BSCS! But most of the signs are pointing *MY* way now for once! And despite doing poorly in Calc2, overall I've rarely felt better in my life.
I, for one, am glad I stopped short of taking my dad's shotgun to my head... And it didn't require going to a psychologist to avoid either, so I have no record of mental illness (nobody's gonna hire somebody who's been found insane! Partially or otherwise...). It's just a matter of "getting root" on your brain and controlling your psyche, willpower, and determination. And believe it or not, I did it using no other drugs than the very occasional (once every couple of months) use of alcohol; no other drugs necessary. And the best part, is that I did it all on my own, with no more help than monetary support from my parents... And you can too.
Seriously, don't give up just yet guys.
*BSD may be dying, but you guys don't have to...
[Sorry about length, BTW, but this has become a very deep-seated issue with me, as you can tell, and I absolutely HATE to see people fail or get depressed for the same reasons I was.]
If you graduated HS in 98 that makes you 22 or so? No way is that too old to go to college. Hell, as the only freshman old enough to buy beer you'd probably be the most popular guy in the dorm.
-- ...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
So who's NFS?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 3, Funny
face facts, can someone point out any good points about bsd? no, because there are none, i nknow more than you and can debate anything you say, lets go!
-- If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
Re:BSD SUCKS!
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Troll
Unlike it's cousin LSD, BSD is still legal!
Re:BSD SUCKS!
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
"i nknow more than you and can debate anything"
Well, not knowing how to type certainly does make you a fountain of knowledge!
Re:BSD SUCKS!
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
My firm uses openBSD extensively as a firewall. Where Linux is flexible and versatile, *BSD is more logically put together and better documented. The clear advantage to *BSD, however, is security. Nothing can touch it.
Re:BSD SUCKS!
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
that's font, cockmaster
I would just like to say...
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
I have NetBSD installed and it kicks ass!
Re:I would just like to say...
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Flamebait
NetBSD is for people who have such poor self esteem that they have to chose their operating system to try and be 'better' than anyone else. In doing this they get a sub par operating system, but feel better about themselves. If you like BSD, netBSD has nothing on freeBSD, except the ability to run on obsure hardware.
In the linux side of things, this is similar to the slackware user.
Re:I would just like to say...
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metrix007
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· Score: -1
i recently started using slackwaere, much better than redhat, what is wrong with slackware?
-- If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
Re:I would just like to say...
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
Thank you for that little tid-bit of knowledge. You certainly have changed my life and the lives of countless others with your inspiring words. I would like to take this moment to award you with the Nobel Peace Prize. Gobal disarmament, ending world hunger, and yes, posting the most useless comment on slashdot are all issues you have speare-headed in your meaningful lifetime.
Without a doubt, you are a role model to millions of young boys and girls out there.
Re:I would just like to say...
by
Mayor+McPenisman
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· Score: -1
That was an ownage
Take off your AC shroud and allow the sarcasm to be recognized!
excellent job.
-- [[Ay fukkand lyke ane furious Fornicatour]]
Re:I would just like to say...
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Troll
>"what is wrong with slackware?"
Nothing! That state-of-the-art ".tgz" package management system ROCKS!
That man is pretty "Big Scary"
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
Not too sure if he is a demon though.
A printer and human friendly version
by
Shiny+Metal+S.
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· Score: 3, Informative
*BSD is dying
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: -1, Offtopic
It is now official - Netcraft has confirmed: *BSD is dying
Yet another
crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when recently
IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1
percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft
survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share,
this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD
is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by
failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin
comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin
to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD
faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for
*BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for
*BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market
share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most
endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader
Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users
of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD
posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are
about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about
half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700
users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent
of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400
FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet
posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and
so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by
BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead,
its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major
surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is
very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD
is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD
continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at
this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Ok... what about Mac OS X? More popular than any linux distro.
--
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
Re:*BSD is dying
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
They should have started at the beginning so we could better appreciate the narrative thread
Even the ones that are done are not in chronological order - Pauling probably arranged them loosely by subject.
E.g. 35b has entries from 1938-1939, 1946, 1955, 1968 and 1986-1988 and seems to be about a textbook, aluminium and cancer
44 is 1991-1994 and has lots of heavy metal stuff.
46 is 1967-1972 and contains stuff about transition metals and loads of misc stuff.
It's going to take a while to read his handwriting:-)
What about security???
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
I'm appalled that he considers IP address matching to be a way of preventing abuse. Sure, his cable modem is a separate interface so he can use a firewall to block it. But what if you're on a large untrusted LAN and you want to share files between two machines? I have exactly this problem (I have a laptop and a desktop at university) and I'm still looking for a simple yet secure way to share between them without allowing anyone to just spoof the IP address (and preferrably without transmitting my secret plans for world domination over the wire in the clear).
Re:What about security???
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
It's called Coda. Set aside a week or two out of your terribly busy schedule and set it up - you'll be happy you did.
Re:What about security???
by
metrix007
·
· Score: -1
perhaps you should consider coda? i don't have the link but it is a secure alternative to NFS.
-- If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
Re:What about security???
by
autechre
·
· Score: 5, Informative
As someone else has already mentioned, you could use the Self-certifying File System .
You could also establish an encrypted tunnel between the two machines using whatever implementation of IPSEC they have (Linux has FreeSWAN, OpenBSD has something built into the kernel, not sure about others). Then you could share stuff however you wanted.
We're currently using NFS to share our MP3 collections on our private network (behind the firewall/gateway), and it's not a big problem there. But for any network I don't trust (and I'm not very trustworthy:), I'd stay away from it.
You forgot to mention that is a SOLID week or three to set up Coda (give up your life in the mean time). Even when it works, it does so for only a minuscule subset of needs. The resources it consumes may not be worth it.
While I admire the effort, Coda is far and away from addressing real world connectivity problems. rsync works just as well without the major headaches and overhead.
-- satire, n: 1) witty language used to convey insults or scorn; 2) a form of humor lost on most slashdot moderators.
I've found VTUN works pretty well, and runs on most anything pppd runs on.
-- "'Tis great confidence in a friend to tell him your faults, greater to tell him his." --Poor Richard's Almanac
Re:What about security???
by
AtomicBomb
·
· Score: 3, Informative
I agree securing NFS is a hard problem in a hostile environment. Basically, NFS is wide open if you managed to root one machine. A group of my friends at university used to boot machines using linux bootdisk. Then, mimics other guys UID, IP etc to fool the NFS server. If you gain root after login, a clue-up sysadmin should be able to track you down... Boot floppy is the killer here. Well, you can say the computer guys should disable floppy booting option in BIOS. But, they cannot really do much as some student need to boot with floppy occasionally (we are in CSE).
Simple tricks no longer works when we switched to something more secure, AFS , in our case.... It is way more advanced than NFS. For example, as a normal user, I can authorise only a few trusted person to have access to one of my designated subdir.
Re:What about security???
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
So talking about security? Yes, up to version 3 you should not (read: cannot) spread NFS across administrative boundaries. But what am I reading here about alternatives? NFS over SHH? SFS? Eww.
If you want NFS *and* security, simply use NFS version 4. NFSv4 has RPCSEC_GSS (strong crypto+auth) builtin and much better caching/locking/failure strategies than NFSv3.
Up till now there are NFSv4 implementations for OpenBSD, Linux and Solaris, maybe more.
PS: Oh yes, they also dumped mountd and nlm.
Re:What about security???
by
jayed_99
·
· Score: 2
Boot floppy is the killer here. Well, you can say the computer guys should disable floppy booting option in BIOS. But, they cannot really do much as some student need to boot with floppy occasionally (we are in CSE).
You're lucky you're not on any network I've ever admin'd. In my mind, no end-user ever has a need to use a boot floppy. If they do, then that means the machine is broken and, ergo, they should come and find me.
If they need to use a boot floppy -- perhaps to demonstrate some elegant 1.44MB proof of concept, then they can use a development machine on a development network. (Please read "development" as "I don't give a rat's ass; we blow them away every Friday anyway").
In a production network, there is no reason that an end-user would ever need to use a boot floppy. Well, there is no legitimate reason that an end-user would need one. In fact, it's difficult to determine a legitimate reason that an end-user would need to use a boot floppy on a development network.
IP address spoofing (in the classical sense of injecting fake information into the packets you send) is a way of STOPPING certain packets from reaching the intended destination rather than INTERCEPTING packets meant for some destination.
However, if you mean another machine on the LAN having the IP address as you expect your other machine to have then ok, yes, and especially with DHCP in effect...
But there is a simple solution: Have each machine only open one port to the outside world, use scp (secure copy) and even run it on a non-standard port and change the password every day if you feel like it.
graspee
Re:What about security???
by
AtomicBomb
·
· Score: 1
In fact, it's difficult to determine a legitimate reason that an end-user would need to use a boot floppy on a development network.
It makes sense to separate the network into a production and development subsystems... I wish my system admin is as cool as you.
However, I have some serious doubt whether we can eliminate the need of boot floppy in a development network altogether. Say, you are playing around with RTLinux or other kernel hacks for your project, you just leave with 2 options: 1) using boot floppy (boot CD, zip etc) 2) write that directly to harddrive
Let's forget about bad intentions first. Option 2 needs more attention from sysadmin. (A careless student may overwrite the original linux kernel with his hack... you may need to wipe the the development machine clean before Friday....)
Securing NFS is like securing anything else in a hostle enviornment: Do what you can to lock down the protocol. Then make sure you have a nice intrusion detection system (like snort) that can shutdown the services if any funny business is detected.
Just my $0.02.
--
That damn time machine set me back 15 years!
Re:What about security???
by
Electrum
·
· Score: 2
I just started up my web browser and began to click through my various daily news sites when I saw the huge breaking news headline on CNN.com that read Bob Hope dead at 99.
I'm both shocked and saddenned by this loss, as Bob was a great man who was known by many as America's most prized ambassador of good will around the world.
He was born Leslie Towns Hope on May 29, 1903 in Eltham, England, and made his show business debut in 1924 in a dancing act with partner Lloyd Durbin in a Fatty Arbuckle Revue.
Mr. Hope starred in 60 movies and has been honored by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences five times. Even more impressive, he was cited by the Guinness Book of World Records as "The Most Honored Entertainer" of all time with over 1,500 awards and citations for humanitarian and professional efforts, including the "Congressional Gold Medal" the "Medal of Freedom," the "Honor of Knight Commander of The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire," and the "Congressional Resolution 75." This last honor made Bob Hope the first American in history to be made an honorary veteran.
This wonderful man has also received 54 Honorary Degrees including seven Doctor of Laws, 19 Doctor of Humane Letters, and 11 Doctor of Humanities.
Younger people may know Mr. Hope best for his passion for the game of golf that is so legendary. For 40 years, he has hosted the "Bob Hope Desert Classic" in Palm Springs, raising millions for Desert Charities.
Re:Kaos BSD has a better FS.
by
dmelomed
·
· Score: 1
Network Failure System.
Yay! A NFS which works!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Amazing enough, BSD had working NFS, what, almost 20 years ago? And now the true blue BSD unix you have come to know and love is freely available to run on your PC.
Corrections, pointers, and cautions
by
angio
·
· Score: 5, Informative
A few things in the article deserve to be
clarified. First, Lucas states that
"One thing to note is that NFS uses the same usernames on each side of
the connection." This is not accurate - NFS uses the same UIDs on both sides of the connection. If you don't have a unified UID space between your machines, you'll have.. issues.
Second, if you export NFS to the world,
you're insane and deserve what you get.
If you want remote filesystem access, use a secure protocol like the Self-Certifing Filesystem (SFS). SFS also avoids
completely the problem of having a shared
UID space.
Finally, his advice to mount your filesystems intr is good. But insufficient - also mount them soft, so that filesystem calls will eventually timeout if the server goes poof.
Re:Corrections, pointers, and cautions
by
Phexro
·
· Score: 2
Quick pointers to NFS U/GID space solutions:
* rpc.ugidd - easy, but insecure. can leak u/gid info to untrusted parties. only works with userspace nfs server in linux - don't know about other opsystems. * use the same u/gids on every server - almost certainly not an option. * use a shared PAM back-end, such as LDAP (what I use), MySQL, or PostgreSQL
Re:Corrections, pointers, and cautions
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
A small warning from the "Distribution" page of that SFS site; user emptor:
"Several of the SFS authors use SFS for their home directories without any problems. SFS has been in use for several years and we have never lost a file. That said, SFS should still be considered pre-alpha. Though it has been stable on the platforms we've used, it could trigger bugs in your operating system and crash your machine, or even open up security holes. More importantly, the SFS protocols will likely change in incompatible ways in the future."
Re:Corrections, pointers, and cautions
by
HalfFlat
·
· Score: 3, Informative
The "soft" mount option used often to be called the "corrupt" option.
The problem is that programs rarely check to see if a write() fails after a successful open(). When the file system moves around under them, they can fail to write important data in blissful ignorance. This can lead to files whose contents are essentially broken.
The fault doesn't really lie with NFS, so much as with the lage body of code which assumes write() calls to a file are more reliable than NFS soft-mounted file systems allow.
Generally speaking, using soft mount is asking for trouble.
Re:Corrections, pointers, and cautions
by
norwoodites
·
· Score: 1
The real old way was using YP(NIS).
Yes this was should be avoided unless you are on a secured network and have you can block ips on udp/rpc.
Re:Corrections, pointers, and cautions
by
norwoodites
·
· Score: 1
If read the/. news around December 16, you would see this has been fixed and other nfs bugs(the rest were client side ones): http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/12/16/151250 &mode=nested&tid=128 .
One thing to note is that NFS uses the same usernames on each side of the connection. My files are owned by mwlucas on the server, so they are owned by mwlucas on the client. This can be a problem on a large network where users have root on their own machines. To create a central repository of authorized users, consider Kerberos or NIS. On a small network, or on a network with limited administrators, this usually isn't a problem.
Pre-planning is useful, as always
-- "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Re:caveats
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Yes but have you ever gotten kerberos to work with NFS under FreeBSD?
That man is pretty "Big"
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: -1, Offtopic
Who leaves a bigger load in the commode?
He or CowboyNeal?
Good starter article, maybe
by
spacey
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I don't think this article qualifies as "understanding nfs". NFS is a hairy beast, and all this does is get you started from the userland point of view. What makes nfs so hairy is the numerous ways it can fail or at least not do what you expect.
I've been looking on Google for about ten minutes for information about NFS I could understand and, just sort of a broad overview of it. Always something germane and informative on Slashdot;).
Re:Funny that.
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
you stupid asshole, you must not have been reading slashdot for long.
and, read the man pages.
NFS does have problems...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0, Redundant
I used Windows 95 NFS clients with a Linux server about 3 years ago and had some interesting problems occur. I know that it is dated info but it would be nice to know if these concerns have been addressed:
1. It's difficult to find a good Windows based NFS client. I was using time limited demo clients for an educational setting and they would cause all sorts of problems like locking up of Win95 - yeah I know, its probably Win95. How has it changed for Windows now?
2. I had a big security concern that anyone who had a laptop with Unix loaded and running nfsclient would be able to log in with root privileges. You needed root access on the client not on the server and then you could su to any user.
I can see now that with the widespread use of DHCP servers, that restricting access to IP addresses won't work.
Re:NFS does have problems...
by
autechre
·
· Score: 3, Informative
For the Windows clients, I just use Samba . It gets the job done quite well, though to use encrypted passwords you do have to maintain a separate password file for it. It does have a facility to sync the *nix passwd file to its own, though.
For the other problem, you should look into the root_squash option.
Re:NFS does have problems...
by
bogado
·
· Score: 2
The root squash option is not enougth because you can aways su to the desired user after going into root.
--
[]'s Victor Bogado da Silva Lins
^[:wq
Re:NFS does have problems...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
to use encrypted passwords you do have to maintain a separate password file for it. It does have a facility to sync the *nix passwd file
Thats where pam_smbpass comes in, its updates the sampasswd whenever it gets a plaintext password. Either loging in (local/shh/telnet/xdm) or when changing a password. Its even posible to trow out your own/etc/shadow and use smbpasswd as only means of authentication. Anyway you are up the the mercy of l0phtcrack instead of a slow md5 cracker (still beats a crc I think)
NFS Howto
by
I+Want+GNU!
·
· Score: 4, Informative
That's the Linux NFS HOWTO.
Although it gives some good background on NFS
(and in more depth than the article
discussed here) it's pretty Linux-specific
when it comes down to the actual setup process.
It's not going to give you any FreeBSD-specific
information, and so is of limited usefulness in
setting up for that system.
I'm amazed that a comment that's arguably
off-topic gets modded up twice as "Informative,"
but this is, after all, Slashdot.
What's that? slashdot for dummies? What will it me next? -- link to step-by-step manual of XFree86 configuration for matrox G200 PCI card? Nah, XF86Config is too complex, probably walkthrough on changing display resolution in winXP will be next. go-jenny-go!
Anyone use NFS in both directions?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: -1, Offtopic
A big stick up Chuck Jones' ass. RIH, Fucker.
Why is FreeBSD unpopular?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: -1, Offtopic
Why is FreeBSD so unpopular? I'll tell you why. Click that link and take a good look at that guy's face. There's your problem right there.
Linus is a stud. Steve Jobs could give a heterosexual guy a wet dream (that's nothing to be ashamed of, ya know). This FreeBSD article-writing guy flips burgers. Hell, next to him Bill Gates looks like Captain America.
Do a situp, for Christ's Sakes!
Re:Why is FreeBSD unpopular?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: -1, Offtopic
I am not sure what is worse, flipping burgers or sitting on slashdot trolling all day?
Re:Why is FreeBSD unpopular?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: -1, Offtopic
You should see that guy in person -- Oh my God!
*BSD the harelip orphan
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: -1, Offtopic
Netcraft has officially confirmed: *BSD is dying
Yet another crippling bombshell
hit the beleaguered *BSD community when recently IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less
than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft
survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to
reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as further
exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall:
*BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because
*BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware,
*BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the
most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers.
Let's keep to the
facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of
OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD
posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD
users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there
are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD
market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent
with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal
sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another
troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
Recently, href="http://goatse.cx">Slashdot confirmed that FreeBSD has been given away
to FreeBSD Mall for a carton of Winstons and a six-pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon. This only
serves to confirm the fact that FreeBSD is unwanted, doomed to be passed around like a
harelip orphan from one foster parent to another.
All major surveys show that *BSD has
steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects
are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD
continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For
all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dead
Troubled times for *BSD
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: -1, Offtopic
So why now? Why did *BSD fail? Once you get past the
fact that *BSD is fragmented between a myriad of
incompatible kernels, there is the historical
record of failure and of failed operating
systems. *BSD experienced moderate success about
15 years ago in academic circles. Since then it
has been in steady decline. We all know *BSD keeps
losing market share but why? Is it the problematic
personalities of many of the key players? Or is
it larger than their troubled personalities?
The record is clear on one thing: no operating
system has ever come back from the grave.
Efforts to resuscitate *BSD are one step away from
spiritualists wishing to communicate with the dead.
As th situation grows more desperate for the
adherents of this doomed OS, the sorrow takes hold.
An unremitting gloom hangs like a death shround
over a once hopeful *BSD community. The hope
is gone; a mournful nostalgia has settled in.
Now is the end time for *BSD.
Tip for better NFS performance in FreeBSD
by
vrgngoddess
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Just a tip... by default, FreeBSD uses conservative NFS mounting options. Note that these work well when trying to interoperate with other Unixes; everybody speaks the lowest common denominator. You can use mount options to augment NFS performance but reduce interoperability somewhat. These options aren't necessary when you're working with one or two clients, but as your NFS installation grows, you'll find them helpful. They may or may not work with other operating systems; it depends on what those OSs support.
Re:Tip for better NFS performance in FreeBSD
by
wadetemp
·
· Score: 2
That was pointed out in the article... interestingly, using 99% of the same words and sentance structures your post uses.
Blame it on the Jews
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: -1, Flamebait
Jews always like to stick their big noses into
other peoples' business. Personally, I think Hitler had the
right idea. Read about
Jew Media Control.
It will make you realize that the degenerate images we see in the
movies and on TV are no accident. It is all planned by the Jews.
Understanding? Be my guest...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: -1, Troll
Go ahead and bang you collective heads up against a brick wall, trying to learn cryptic crap to make BSD work.
Or you could just get a Mac with OSX, which takes BSD and (finally) puts a decent user interface on it where, all that Unixey stuff is handled automagically. Just a few mouse clicks from the totally seamless and transparent GUI app, and you're done. No need to waste time learning all that propeller-head garbage.
See the advantages of having a company that knows what it's doing write your OS?
NFS is REALLY insecure. But there are secure Alt.
by
oobeleck
·
· Score: 3, Informative
NFS has a long history of insecurities.(Link takes a little while to load...) Also in the article he claims: "You can reboot a server and the client won't crash." Maybe not crash but at least with Solaris (in my experience) you hang the entire system during the reboot. Sometimes it comes back and sometimes it doesn't. For a secure alternative that runs on *BSD/Solaris/Linux w/(2.4 Kernels) try out: Self-Certifying Filesystem. The authors do warn that it is in alpha stage but also claim they have never lost a file. VERY cool project.
You CAN have multiple lines for the same partition
by
fist
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Comments about/etc/exports... "There are no identifiers between the components of the line. Yes, it would be easier to read if we could put each shared directory on its own line, but we can't; they're all on the same partition. The FreeBSD team could rewrite this so that it had more structure, but then our/etc/exports would be incompatible with that from any other Unix."
What?!?! Did this guy even read the man page for/etc/exports? Of course you can have seperate directories from the same partition on different lines!! In the man page they have an example of it! Plus there is this comment lifted directly from the FreeBSD 4.5 man page for/etc/exports.
"Mount points for a filesystem may appear on multiple lines each with different sets of hosts and export options."
Michael's articles are usually of excellent quality, but I can't believe how many other mistakes he's made! The article is written to familiarize a "junior" sys admin to NFS, but only teaches them bad habits. Hopefully he'll do a little more research for his future articles.
NFS clients for windows?
by
otomo_1001
·
· Score: 1
I've spent quite some time trying to find a nfs client for windows. Does such a beast exist?
I've found more than enough shareware/etc... but have been unable to find a open source solution.
Does anyone know of a free nfs client for windows?
Re:NFS clients for windows?
by
m0rten
·
· Score: 1
I belive there is an NFS client called "Omni NFS", try looking at their webpage
Re:NFS clients for windows?
by
Eric+Destiny
·
· Score: 1
Well, the/. crowd should love this one.
Microsoft makes a package called Windows Services for UNIX. This package includes an NFS server and client and allows you to work with NFS exports as if you were sharing them with other Windows clients. It works pretty well (although it doesn't seem to like OpenBSD at the moment) and also includes ActivePerl and a UNIX-like shell for Windows.
--
"The meek shall inherit the earth, the rest of us shall go to the stars." Isaac Asimov
Re:NFS clients for windows?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Its not free.
Re:NFS clients for windows?
by
dmelomed
·
· Score: 1
And they bought it from someone (Interix?).
SFS (was Re:Corrections, pointers, and cautions)
by
angio
·
· Score: 3, Informative
Yup. SFS is still "developmentware," but
it's the most stable developmentware you'll ever use; DM writes really solid code. I've been using it for more than a year to edit source code, listen to music, and generally access my school home directory from home (and from my laptop when I travel).
I haven't had any SFS problems for over 6 months, since 0.5i. But the notice is correct - your mileage may vary, and use with caution. I've seen SFS tickle bugs in the Linux NFS implementation, but the latest Linux NFS support is much improved over 2.2. On Open/FreeBSD, it's quite solid, IMHO.
For further info, browse the
SFS-users mailing list. It's a good way to get a feel for the issues involved in running SFS.
(Obligatory disclosure: I'm not one of the developers, but my office is across the hall).
Umm.. yep, not to be mean but.
by
Deal-a-Neil
·
· Score: 1
..this intro to NFS is kinda light for/. Understanding NFS -- I believed I was going to be reading about the gushy internal stuff that goes on but in layman terms, but rather, I found stuff that any *nix admin here on/. has known for years. Don't slip. First, that horrible reference to that horrible Google ad-words article, then this.
Re:Umm.. yep, not to be mean but.
by
unclefucknut
·
· Score: 1
There are a lot of sysadmins here, but I have a hunch that there are more newbies and sysadmin wannabees here.
Also, there are many Linux -> FreeBSD converts that could use this information. (I don't know how similar NFS on those platforms are, but I'm sure there are some differences).
NFS rocks. Coming from the PC world, I was shocked when I discovered how long this useful standard has been around, and how compatible the implementations are... A little while ago I added an old SGI Indy to my Linux network. I tried mounting my primary NFS share on it, expecting to spend several hours troubleshooting in IRIX before it would work. And whaddya know, it came up perfectly the first time =).
A hole in one every time. You can't beat such a record with SMB (Windows shares) w/o having an MSCE (connecting win98 machines with windows 2000 is not always a "turn key" thing.. *grumble* what's up with those Redmond freaks?)
For those who are interested in a more secure NFS, i found an interesting article about encypted NFS (via openssh) It's a good read, and really interesting! Unfortunately it's written for Linux, but it's easy to adapt it to *BSD. Check it out here!
The article makes quite an interesting read. I enjoyed reading it, and if you want even more information, read this.
don't give pointers
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
As we all know pointers make code insecure.
Bleak days, bitter nights, for *BSD
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
So whynow? Why dd *BSD fail? Once you get past the
fact that *BSD is fragmented between a myriad of
incompatible kernels, there is the historical
record of failure and of failed operating
systems. *BSD experienced moderate success about
15 years ago in academic circles. Since then it
has been in steady decline. We all know *BSD keeps
losing market share but why? Is it the problematic
personalities of many of the key players? Or is
it larger than their troubled personalities?
The record is clear on one thing: no operating
system has ever come back from the grave.
Efforts to resuscitate *BSD are one step away from
spiritualists wishing to communicate with the dead.
As the situation grows more desperate for the
adherents of this doomed OS, the sorrow takes hold.
An unremitting gloom hangs like a death shround
over a once hopeful *BSD community. The hope
is gone; a mournful nostalgia has settled in.
Now is the end time for *BSD.
Re:Bleak days, bitter nights, for *BSD
by
Melantha_Bacchae
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
An AC writes:
> We all know *BSD keeps losing market share but why?
Um, because it is gaining market share?
Apple, in their last quarter report, announced the sale of one million boxes of OS X (a *BSD OS) and two million systems with it on the hard drive.
The new iMac, booting OS X by default, had 150,000 preorders.
The new iMac is the top selling computer for all time at Amazon. It is outselling every XP PC on Amazon.
Out of the top 25 bestselling computers on Amazon, 10 were Macs, and all Macs are now shipping OS X as the default booting OS.
ZDNet ran this (http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/ma in/0,14179,2659085,00.html) article about how the number of *BSD users will soon exceed the number of Linux users, largely thanks to OS X and Darwin. *BSD already has three times the number of Linux desktop users. (And if the Linux users aren't happy about this, they can just run out and make more Linux users and make Linux more successful on the desktop. Then we can have a fun race with them.;)
> An unremitting gloom hangs like a death shround over a once hopeful > *BSD community. The hope is gone; a mournful nostalgia has > settled in. Now is the end time for *BSD.
Sorry to burst your tragic bubble (not really;) but *BSD is currently in no danger of death.
*BSD is in serious danger of growth!
Oh, there is a doomed OS alright. It is an evil empire, built on a foundation that now crumbles and groans under its weight. This empire doesn't see the danger. It never will, until it is too late. A hero thrice thought dead (Apple, Next, *BSD), now reborn, arises to shatter its foundations.
Beyond time, beyond terror, beyond death, Mothra: Your heart can reach...Life!
Re:Bleak days, bitter nights, for *BSD
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Funny... Last time I checked OS X ran the Mach kernel and not the BSD one:-)
Sure, they do use a lot of components from BSD, and you could claim that OS X is more or less based on it, but it's not completely accurate to say it IS *BSD.
Encrypt NFS through an SSH tunnel, read this!!!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
This is from a link I saw on LinuxToday last week Run SSH to set up a port forwarding "tunnel" and then run NFS through it so that all traffic will be encrypted. It will slow down performance but it's better than living in fear!
http://www.samag.com/print/documentID=22157
P.S. SSH rules!!!:)
Nonetheless NFS is seriously flawed
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
- security. If you run it (and yes it can be convenient to have, say, all your mp3 files accessible from every client on your local net) then do so behind a big fat firewall.
- stability. Notably you shouldn't use softupdates on an NFS export or sooner or later you're going to see panics.
- performance. Is awful. Even copying through scp is faster than NFS.
In short, NFS has its merits but for anything serious or anything in an unprotected network zone I'd definately vote against it.
Strange BTW that the article doesn't mention the AMD (auto mount daemon). While I personally found it hideous its worth mentioning that one can have their shares auto mounted and unmounted on demand.
Last point: NFS was thought up by Sun. What were we expecting anyway:-)
"You can reboot a server and the client won't crash. It won't be able to access files on the server's export while the server is down, but once it returns, you'll pick up right where things left off. Other network file sharing systems are not so resilient."
From regular personal experience, I can state that NFS is hardly so robust under HPUX.... Is BSD really this foolproof?
I've only had NFS on my FreeBSD box at work for a short while. But I've had it on my Solaris box for three years now. For a while last year the server would crash and burn every hour or two. A very horrible situation that only got resolved when we threatened to send to the servers back to Sun via patriot missile. This went on for a week. Not once did it cause any of the Solaris clients to buckle or fold.
p.s. I suspect that a certain Sun rep deliberately sabotaged our servers in order to generate support calls. Obviously he is no longer a Sun rep.
-- A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
I had alot of fun with NFS during my Univerity years. Sure it has some nice features as it's lightning-fast and stateless but it's totally unsecure, period.
The NFS server has two parts, the authentication part and the data-server part. The authentication part authenticates based on the IP address of the requester, if successful, it will send the requester the 'key' for the export.
After that, anybody can use that key to request files from the data-server part. And from any IP address!!
There exist a very nice ftp-like tool that lets you play with NFS systems, enter the key manually or use the UID overflow bug to get root privs. And this is only the beginning of the fun !!
Trust me, "Don't use NFS" unless you are running it on a network that is not connected to the rest of the world, and you trust everyone that has access to this network.
Re:Security issues ..
by
unclefucknut
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
Try that for 3000 clients and your performance is toast !
Cluster your export points
Use hardware accelerated encryption devices
Ask yourself: do these 3000 clients really need access? And what part of the local file system do they need access to? I realize that querying 3000 users for their purposes is a bloody hard job now, but it should have been done in the first place. Follow the principle of least privilege.
For an organization with 3000 external clients, security shoult be at the top of the TODO-list. Finding a hacker/spoofer among 3000 clients is like finding a needle in a haystack. If this scenario is yours, then please reconsider some major security face lifts...
What you are proposing is throwing huge amounts of money out the window to fix a broken protocol.
Have you *any* idea what 3000 encryption hardware accelerators might cost ? (+ servers)
The "Correct" way, from every standpoint is simply not to use NFS, but some other protocol that has the security parts you need. For example, as long as you can protect the authentication credentials, encrypting the contents might not not be as important.
But, many have also taken the "more money" way, and the simplest path to follow there (from an administrational point of view) is simply to use microsoft.
The scenario is not mine, but not many years ago, a lot of universities had this setup. There are a LOT of hackers there, and many have switched to microsoft CIFS now.
Re:NFS is REALLY insecure. But there are secure Al
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Our experience is that on Solaris, if you have an NFS mount that has a failed (offline) server, you will not get an SSH login prompt. OpenSSH apparently scans the file system before providing the prompt, and since it is waiting for NFS to return the mount's info, it never gives the prompt. Would mounting partitions 'soft' fix this?
Re:NFS is REALLY insecure. But there are secure Al
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
Yes.
No free Windows NFS clients, but any under $99?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
These Windows NFS clients are typically over $300 per seat - which is simply insane. Is there a high quality NFS client for Windows under $100?
Samba is good, but it has to run on the (UNIX) machine that can see the native file system. I'd like to bypass Samba and have the Windows clients talk to NFS directly.
This is incorrect information
by
Just+Some+Guy
·
· Score: 2
What?!?! Did this guy even read the man page for/etc/exports? Of course you can have seperate directories from the same partition on different lines!! In the man page they have an example of it!
The article is correct; only mountpoints (and not subdirectories) can be entries in/etc/exports. From the `exports' man page (emphasis mine):
Each line in the file (other than comment lines that begin with a #) specifies the
mount point(s) and export flags within one local server filesystem for one or more hosts.
Furthermore, the only example given in the man page explicitly identifies the directories listed as mountpoints.
Please don't moderate up comments that sound informational without actually checking your facts first.
-- Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Re:This is incorrect information
by
fist
·
· Score: 1
The article is NOT correct.
By "mount point(s)" the man page refers to what the client filesystem will use as mount points. Since you've obviously have no experience with NFS I'll give you a quick example of exporting a subdirectory inside a local mount point on its own line. (Notice how/tmp/test is subdirectory in the root filesystem, yet it works as an entry in the exports file!)
#uname -r 4.5-STABLE # cd/tmp/ # mkdir test # cd test # touch hello # echo "/tmp/test -maproot=0" >/etc/exports # killall -HUP mountd # mount localhost:/tmp/test/cdrom # cd/cdrom ; ls hello #
I believe that the last statement in your post should probably apply to you.
Re:This is incorrect information
by
rthille
·
· Score: 1
I believe the problem is that you may not export two different directories from a single filesystem, you need to instead export their (single) parent.
-- Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
Use of NFS Considered Harmful
by
shani
·
· Score: 1
Personally I recommend never using NFS. Heck, I wrote a paper about it. It's a bit old, and doesn't cover NFSv4. But of course, NFSv4 doesn't address the basic issue of using the wrong model for the problem, so that's not a big deal.:)
Re:Use of NFS Considered Harmful
by
mre5565
·
· Score: 1
> Heck, I wrote a paper [time-travellers.org] about it. It's a bit old, and doesn't cover NFSv4.
Old? It's ancient. Virtually every point you have in your little paper is nonsense, at least when it comes to commericial grade NFS implementations.
Re:Use of NFS Considered Harmful
by
shani
·
· Score: 1
Virtually every point you have in your little paper is nonsense, at least when it comes to commericial grade NFS implementations.
I'd be very interested to know which points are nonsense, and also what you consider a "commercial grade" NFS implementation. Remember that a lot of these issues are client-side related, and I'm especially not sure what a "commercial grade" NFS client is.
My experience with NFS is limited to Network Appliance, Solaris, Linux, BSDi, SCO, and Digital Unix (as well as some early Windows NFS applications).
My original title on this piece was "Introduction to NFS". To the best of my knowledge, ten people in the world truly, deeply understand NFS. Six have won Nobel Prizes, three are in the Institute for the Criminally Insane, and one is not allowed sharp objects and drools on himself a lot. O'Reilly does not seem to like my original titles... ah, well.
Finally, if Slashdot was going to pick up one of my articles... why, my God, did they choose this one? There are many far more interesting and informative Big Scary Daemons out there... take a look at "Linux Emulation, the Hard Way" for one I'm especially proud of. Sigh. Obviously, they don't want the editorial standard to go above that maintained by other Slashdot authors...
are lockd's compatible across different OS'es?
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0
There has always been a problem that NFS was compatable across OS'es, but only SunOS/Solaris respected file locks held across the network (via lockd) - is this still the case?
Re:You CAN have multiple lines for the same partit
by
Dahan
·
· Score: 2
Well, just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should. NFS doesn't export directories--NFS exports filesystems. If you have a FS mounted on/share, and you export/share/somedir, you've actually exported all of/share, even though you may not realize it.
Interview with Pete Seeger
Press for Conversion! subscriber and patron of the Coalition to
Oppose the Arms Trade, Pete Seeger was interviewed on May 9, 1995
by Richard Sanders. Future issues will feature interviews with
other subscribers.
P4C: I wanted to ask about the role of music in conveying important
messages.
PS: This is often asked of me and I can't prove a god-damned thing.
All I can do is quote people through history who said that music is
important. Plato said it is very dangerous for the wrong kind of
music to be allowed in the Republic. We know that the Catholic
Church tried to control music for a thousand years or more and most
countries try and keep revolutionary music off the air. There are
cases of songs which, Anatol France says, have overthrown empires.
He was probably thinking of La Marseillaise. The song Lilly Bolero
is said to have cost King James the throne. It was a hilarious,
very danceable little tune. People could dance while they sang it.
It spread through England, Scotland and Ireland.
P4C: You have your own experiences of being kept off the radio and
TV. During the McCarthy era you were blacklisted. They must have
thought you were a threat.
PS: It was part of the stupidity of that time. Now, they do the
same thing but in much more clever and subtle ways. They say, "Oh
yes you can say anything you want but of course prime time is very
expensive and we only put stuff on what people want to hear, which
will make money." In effect, songs are blacklisted now. I don't get
asked on TV that often.
P4C: This week, many people around the world are thinking back to
the end of the WWII and events of 50 years ago. What significance
do you attach to those events and perhaps you could also reflect
on the way they're being dealt with in the media.
PS: Well, I confess I was not optimistic and never have been. As
long as the capitalist system is around, there will be people
wanting to take advantage of it to push there own agenda. Have you
ever heard this quote from Abraham Lincoln? It was written in a
letter to somebody on Nov. 21, 1864:
"We may congratulate ourselves that this cruel war, which has cost
a vast treasure of blood and money, is almost over but I see in the
future a crisis approaching that fills me with anxiety. As a
result of the war, corporations have become enthroned and an era of
corruption in high places will follow. The moneyed power of the
country will endeavour to prolong its rule by preying upon the
prejudices of the people until all wealth is concentrated in a few
hands and the Republic destroyed. I feel at this time more anxiety
for the future than at any time in the past, even in the midst of
war."
So, I confess, I was not optimistic at the end of WWII. I
appreciated the fact that they were trying to start the UN but,
after all, they tried to start the League of Nations after WWI and
it didn't have much success either. Now, we have individuals in the
U.S. who have more annual incomes than the budgets of many small
countries.
P4C: How accurate do you think Lincoln's projections were of today?
PS: I think that the world is in greater danger than it's ever been
because science and technology have made weapons so much more
available. As we saw in Oklahoma, you can make a weapon out of
fertilizer now. However, good things can come from bad and maybe
when the world realizes the danger we're in, we'll be a lot more
careful about talking angrily to each other and about any killing.
The date of the shooting at Waco should be remembered. It was
one of the most stupid things done by the Clinton administration.
You can't blame the President entirely, he's busy on a million
things. He assumed that the FBI and the Justice Department would
know how to handle it. But they did screwy things like playing the
most unnerving music outside, blasting it at these people and
trying to make them go crazy. They should have played beautiful
hymns to calm them down.
I think that people who try to destroy their enemies are very
foolish. I was once in the presence of somebody who said, "I wish
somebody would assassinate Reagan," and a much more sensible person
said, "I hope I will never hear such a suggestion as long as I
live." This stupid person shut up immediately. Reagan was one of
the worst presidents that this country ever had and we'll be paying
for his foolishness and crimes for a long while. But assassination
is not the answer.
I hope Reagan lives long enough to know how foolish he was and
to see the Republican party repudiated. He's in good health but I'm
afraid with Alzeimers he won't be really conscious. They'll say,
"Mr. Reagan, the Republican party is having a meeting and we hardly
know how to tell you but they are giving speeches regretting that
you were their president." He says, "huh huh huh, what's a party?"
He'll be ninety five or a hundred at the time.
P4C: Do you support the Democrats?
PS: I support them when they do something good. I think that
Clinton has made so many mistakes that its hard to support him
much. If he learns something from his past two years and changes,
I might support him in the next election.
Basic to the saving of democracy is how people vote. I'm
convinced that the powers that be are glad to see 67% of America
not bothering to vote. Nobody polls them because they'll find out
how many have given up on government. They think that the Democrats
are as bad as the Republicans.
P4C: There's some truth to that. Democrats aren't that much
different. You might even say they're not as honest as Republicans
in saying what they really believe.
PS: Politicians cannot be as honest as they'd like to be and get
elected. That's one of the faults of our system. It's winner take
all. Proportional representation would make it possible to be much
more honest and still get elected. Back in the 1930s and '40s we
had two communists on the New York City Council. They'd say, "Sure
I'm a communist but we have a hundred thousand communists in New
York City. Why shouldn't I be on the City Council?"
P4C: Do you have any memories from during the war that you'd like
to share?
PS: Well I must confess, I'm no great pundit. The significance of
Hiroshima did not really filter through to me for a couple of
months, until I started having nightmares about it. When I first
heard it, I was just thinking, "Well, war is horrible thing; it's
horrible to bomb a city, but it's horrible to kill anybody." I
played a banjo through WWII. It was my big contribution to winning
the war against fascism, pickin' a banjo.
P4C: What sort of songs were you pickin'?
PS: Oh, I sang soldier songs mostly, and pop songs and the
occasional old country songs and old folk songs. I'd get a crowd
singing with me. Once in awhile, I'd sing a song about Hitler, like
"Dear Mr. President." When first in the army I won an amateur
contest singing, "Round and round Hitler's grave he won't get up no
more."
P4C: How do you view that experience?
PS: Well, you learn from everything. It was very educational. I've
been kind of a pacifist most of my life, a pacifist kind of a
communist. I think, if I'd been smart, I would have joined
A.J.Muste, who'd been a communist but then quit. He said the
problem with revolutionaries is they don't realize that when they
take power by force of arms, they try to maintain power by force of
arms. The next thing you know, they're shooting at each other.
P4C: How has the peace movement changed over the years that you've
been associated with it.
PS: In the first place, beware of the definite article "t h e." I
think the human race and the English language might be better
without it. The truth, the revolution, the lord, the church, the
reason. The peace movement was one thing in the thirties, another
in the forties, another in the fifties and another in the sixties.
The peace movement is definitely growing. I think what you are
doing is absolutely wonderful. I hope you are growing. Churches are
getting involved. The terrible bombing in Oklahoma is going to be
educational to many. Some church people are realizing, there are
those who claim to be Christians but who are all for killing. It
may make people think twice about supporting any kind of killing.
Margaret Mead, the anthropologist, had a great line. She said,
"Progress is when the proportion of people rises that thinks that
it's a bad thing to take human life." She didn't mention more
health, more money, more housing, more food, more communication. I
agree with her 100%.
P4C: If you were president, how would you reinvest the nation's
vast resources.
PS: I think I would first of all take the money out of the
information business. I would not completely outlaw private TV but
would demand that in return for using the people's air, that TV
stations give a huge amount of free time for political campaigns
and that other advertising be outlawed. Herbert Hoover said, "It is
unthinkable that our airwaves are controlled by advertising." As
president, I'd say, "Let's open up our airwaves to all sorts of
opinions. If the far right has opinions, let them be heard. If the
far left has opinions, let them be heard. If upside down people
want to be heard or right side up people, let them be heard." It
may be confusing to some but in the long run we'll learn how to
talk with each other. People who say stupid things will find they
have a limited audience.
I would immediately start discussing proportional
representation and quit this system of winner take all. A friend
of mine in Holland, said "Oh you Americans have two political
parties. That's just one more than the Soviets had. We have
twenty." How do they govern? By coalitions. Instead of having to
lie to put your coalition together, you know you're dealing with
skilled politicians, so you say, "Look I'll vote for this, if you
vote for that." It doesn't make heaven on earth but it makes for a
more peaceful country.
Let me reiterate that what you are doing is right at the
cutting edge of the future because I believe that within the next
ten years we're going to have to start limiting arms more. What's
going on now at the UN is absolutely shocking. I spoke with Daniel
Ellsberg recently. He says the U.S. is just stonewalling and other
countries are just astonished. They say, "Aren't you willing to say
that you look forward to someday not having any atom bombs?" "No,
we can't say that." "Aren't you willing to say that you won't use
the atom bomb first?" "Oh, no, we can't say that." The U.S. is not
willing to make a single concession. It's shocking. Other nations
are dumbfounded.
P4C: Well perhaps someday there will be a global movement to
boycott the U.S., just as there was one to boycott South Africa.
PS: Its very possible. I have almost weekly talks with friends who
are so discouraged they feel like leaving the country as they did
during the Vietnam war.
P4C: Is that because of the rise of the Republicans and the right
wing?
PS: Yes, I remind them that the Republicans only had 17% of the
votes. Only 33% of the electorate voted. Democrats got 16% and
Republicans got 17%. That's their great mandate.
P4C: Did anyone ever ask you to run?
PS: Oh, I've been asked occasionally but they were very foolish to
ask me. I am not a good organizer at all. I get ideas but I don't
know how to follow them up. My life is a chaos of uncompleted
projects. Fortunately, one or two of them have succeeded.
To order Pete's book, Where Have All the Flowers Gone? (complete
with 200 songs) contact Sing Out, at (610) 865-5366.
SOURCE: "Press for Conversion!", Spring (Issue # 21) May 1995.
"Press for Conversion!" is published electronically and in hard-
copy format by the Coalition to Oppose the Arms Trade (COAT).
For more information, contact:
COAT, 489 Metcalfe St., Ottawa ON K1S 3N7
Tel.: (613) 231-3076 Fax: (613) 231-2614
E-mail: ad207@freenet.carleton.ca
~
MU!
I just don't have the motivation to do the lyrics thing anymore. Sigh. I get more and more depressed every day. I really need a girlfriend. It's Saturday night at 1AM and I'm sitting here with my dick in my hand and posting to fucking Slashdot. Are there any chicks out there who would like to wrap their lips around a below-average sized penis? I promise it'll only be a 3 minute job.. Fuck..
RMS's sister?
face facts, can someone point out any good points about bsd? no, because there are none, i nknow more than you and can debate anything you say, lets go!
If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
I have NetBSD installed and it kicks ass!
Not too sure if he is a demon though.
Here's a printer and human friendly version, for those of you, who don't like half-screen animated ads inside the text you try to read.
~shiny
WILL HACK FOR $$$
Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when recently IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dead
I'm appalled that he considers IP address matching to be a way of preventing abuse. Sure, his cable modem is a separate interface so he can use a firewall to block it. But what if you're on a large untrusted LAN and you want to share files between two machines? I have exactly this problem (I have a laptop and a desktop at university) and I'm still looking for a simple yet secure way to share between them without allowing anyone to just spoof the IP address (and preferrably without transmitting my secret plans for world domination over the wire in the clear).
I just started up my web browser and began to click through my various daily news sites when I saw the huge breaking news headline on CNN.com that read Bob Hope dead at 99.
I'm both shocked and saddenned by this loss, as Bob was a great man who was known by many as America's most prized ambassador of good will around the world.
He was born Leslie Towns Hope on May 29, 1903 in Eltham, England, and made his show business debut in 1924 in a dancing act with partner Lloyd Durbin in a Fatty Arbuckle Revue.
Mr. Hope starred in 60 movies and has been honored by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences five times. Even more impressive, he was cited by the Guinness Book of World Records as "The Most Honored Entertainer" of all time with over 1,500 awards and citations for humanitarian and professional efforts, including the "Congressional Gold Medal" the "Medal of Freedom," the "Honor of Knight Commander of The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire," and the "Congressional Resolution 75." This last honor made Bob Hope the first American in history to be made an honorary veteran.
This wonderful man has also received 54 Honorary Degrees including seven Doctor of Laws, 19 Doctor of Humane Letters, and 11 Doctor of Humanities.
Younger people may know Mr. Hope best for his passion for the game of golf that is so legendary. For 40 years, he has hosted the "Bob Hope Desert Classic" in Palm Springs, raising millions for Desert Charities.
He was a great man and will surely be missed.
Thanks for the memories,
Ivy League Troll
Bob Hope dead at 99
Is it just me, or is NFS an acronym for No Fucking System?
Seriously, I'm doing a journaled database file system that runs way better than some old dog FS which has had it's day.
Any suggestions for Kauri would be good, it's a grid file system with CVS like features.
All Your BSD Are Belong To Us!
- Kaos games and encryption systems developer
Amazing enough, BSD had working NFS, what, almost
20 years ago? And now the true blue BSD unix
you have come to know and love is freely available
to run on your PC.
Second, if you export NFS to the world, you're insane and deserve what you get. If you want remote filesystem access, use a secure protocol like the Self-Certifing Filesystem (SFS). SFS also avoids completely the problem of having a shared UID space.
Finally, his advice to mount your filesystems intr is good. But insufficient - also mount them soft, so that filesystem calls will eventually timeout if the server goes poof.
Pre-planning is useful, as always
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Who leaves a bigger load in the commode?
He or CowboyNeal?
I don't think this article qualifies as "understanding nfs". NFS is a hairy beast, and all this does is get you started from the userland point of view. What makes nfs so hairy is the numerous ways it can fail or at least not do what you expect.
-Peter
== Just my opinion(s)
I've been looking on Google for about ten minutes for information about NFS I could understand and, just sort of a broad overview of it. Always something germane and informative on Slashdot ;).
1. It's difficult to find a good Windows based NFS client. I was using time limited demo clients for an educational setting and they would cause all sorts of problems like locking up of Win95 - yeah I know, its probably Win95. How has it changed for Windows now?
2. I had a big security concern that anyone who had a laptop with Unix loaded and running nfsclient would be able to log in with root privileges. You needed root access on the client not on the server and then you could su to any user.
I can see now that with the widespread use of DHCP servers, that restricting access to IP addresses won't work.
There is already stuff about NFS! The NFS HOWTO can be found at http://nfs.sourceforge.net/nfs-howto/
What's that? slashdot for dummies? What will it me next? -- link to step-by-step manual of XFree86 configuration for matrox G200 PCI card? Nah, XF86Config is too complex, probably walkthrough on changing display resolution in winXP will be next. go-jenny-go!
A big stick up Chuck Jones' ass. RIH, Fucker.
Why is FreeBSD so unpopular? I'll tell you why. Click that link and take a good look at that guy's face. There's your problem right there.
Linus is a stud. Steve Jobs could give a heterosexual guy a wet dream (that's nothing to be ashamed of, ya know). This FreeBSD article-writing guy flips burgers. Hell, next to him Bill Gates looks like Captain America.
Do a situp, for Christ's Sakes!
Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when recently IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
Recently, href="http://goatse.cx">Slashdot confirmed that FreeBSD has been given away to FreeBSD Mall for a carton of Winstons and a six-pack of Pabst Blue Ribbon. This only serves to confirm the fact that FreeBSD is unwanted, doomed to be passed around like a harelip orphan from one foster parent to another.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dead
The record is clear on one thing: no operating system has ever come back from the grave. Efforts to resuscitate *BSD are one step away from spiritualists wishing to communicate with the dead. As th situation grows more desperate for the adherents of this doomed OS, the sorrow takes hold. An unremitting gloom hangs like a death shround over a once hopeful *BSD community. The hope is gone; a mournful nostalgia has settled in. Now is the end time for *BSD.
Just a tip... by default, FreeBSD uses conservative NFS mounting options. Note that these work well when trying to interoperate with other Unixes; everybody speaks the lowest common denominator. You can use mount options to augment NFS performance but reduce interoperability somewhat. These options aren't necessary when you're working with one or two clients, but as your NFS installation grows, you'll find them helpful. They may or may not work with other operating systems; it depends on what those OSs support.
It's Saturday night at 1AM and I'm sitting here with my dick in my hand and posting to fucking Slashdot.
You're at the wrong site, chap!
Problem Solved.
Jews always like to stick their big noses into other peoples' business. Personally, I think
Hitler had the right idea. Read about Jew Media Control. It will make you realize
that the degenerate images we see in the movies and on TV are no accident. It is all planned by the Jews.
Go ahead and bang you collective heads up against
a brick wall, trying to learn cryptic crap to make BSD work.
Or you could just get a Mac with OSX, which takes BSD and (finally) puts a decent user interface on it where, all that Unixey stuff is handled automagically. Just a few mouse clicks from the totally seamless and transparent GUI app, and you're done. No need to waste time learning all that propeller-head garbage.
See the advantages of having a company that knows what it's doing write your OS?
NFS has a long history of insecurities.(Link takes a little while to load...)
Also in the article he claims: "You can reboot a server and the client won't crash." Maybe not crash but at least with Solaris (in my experience) you hang the entire system during the reboot. Sometimes it comes back and sometimes it doesn't.
For a secure alternative that runs on *BSD/Solaris/Linux w/(2.4 Kernels) try out:
Self-Certifying Filesystem.
The authors do warn that it is in alpha stage but also claim they have never lost a file. VERY cool project.
And of course as the OpenBSD Journal has noted, SysAdmin Mag is running an article on Tunneling NFS over SSH.
Comments about /etc/exports... /etc/exports would be incompatible with that from any other Unix."
/etc/exports? Of course you can have seperate directories from the same partition on different lines!! In the man page they have an example of it! Plus there is this comment lifted directly from the FreeBSD 4.5 man page for /etc/exports.
"There are no identifiers between the components of the line. Yes, it would be easier to read if we could put each shared directory on its own line, but we can't; they're all on the same partition. The FreeBSD team could rewrite this so that it had more structure, but then our
What?!?! Did this guy even read the man page for
"Mount points for a filesystem may appear on multiple lines each with different sets of hosts and export options."
Michael's articles are usually of excellent quality, but I can't believe how many other mistakes he's made! The article is written to familiarize a "junior" sys admin to NFS, but only teaches them bad habits. Hopefully he'll do a little more research for his future articles.
I've spent quite some time trying to find a nfs client for windows. Does such a beast exist?
I've found more than enough shareware/etc... but have been unable to find a open source solution.
Does anyone know of a free nfs client for windows?
I haven't had any SFS problems for over 6 months, since 0.5i. But the notice is correct - your mileage may vary, and use with caution. I've seen SFS tickle bugs in the Linux NFS implementation, but the latest Linux NFS support is much improved over 2.2. On Open/FreeBSD, it's quite solid, IMHO.
For further info, browse the SFS-users mailing list. It's a good way to get a feel for the issues involved in running SFS.
(Obligatory disclosure: I'm not one of the developers, but my office is across the hall).
..this intro to NFS is kinda light for /. Understanding NFS -- I believed I was going to be reading about the gushy internal stuff that goes on but in layman terms, but rather, I found stuff that any *nix admin here on /. has known for years. Don't slip. First, that horrible reference to that horrible Google ad-words article, then this.
NFS rocks. Coming from the PC world, I was shocked when I discovered how long this useful standard has been around, and how compatible the implementations are... A little while ago I added an old SGI Indy to my Linux network. I tried mounting my primary NFS share on it, expecting to spend several hours troubleshooting in IRIX before it would work. And whaddya know, it came up perfectly the first time =).
For those who are interested in a more secure NFS, i found an interesting article about encypted NFS (via openssh) It's a good read, and really interesting! Unfortunately it's written for Linux, but it's easy to adapt it to *BSD. Check it out here!
Life sucks.
The article makes quite an interesting read. I enjoyed reading it, and if you want even more information, read this.
As we all know pointers make code insecure.
The record is clear on one thing: no operating system has ever come back from the grave. Efforts to resuscitate *BSD are one step away from spiritualists wishing to communicate with the dead. As the situation grows more desperate for the adherents of this doomed OS, the sorrow takes hold. An unremitting gloom hangs like a death shround over a once hopeful *BSD community. The hope is gone; a mournful nostalgia has settled in. Now is the end time for *BSD.
This is from a link I saw on LinuxToday last week
:)
Run SSH to set up a port forwarding "tunnel" and then run NFS through it so that all traffic will be encrypted. It will slow down performance but it's better than living in fear!
http://www.samag.com/print/documentID=22157
P.S. SSH rules!!!
- security. If you run it (and yes it can be convenient to have, say, all your mp3 files accessible from every client on your local net) then do so behind a big fat firewall.
:-)
- stability. Notably you shouldn't use softupdates on an NFS export or sooner or later you're going to see panics.
- performance. Is awful. Even copying through scp is faster than NFS.
In short, NFS has its merits but for anything serious or anything in an unprotected network zone I'd definately vote against it.
Strange BTW that the article doesn't mention the AMD (auto mount daemon). While I personally found it hideous its worth mentioning that one can have their shares auto mounted and unmounted on demand.
Last point: NFS was thought up by Sun. What were we expecting anyway
"You can reboot a server and the client won't crash. It won't be able to access files on the server's export while the server is down, but once it returns, you'll pick up right where things left off. Other network file sharing systems are not so resilient."
From regular personal experience, I can state that NFS is hardly so robust under HPUX.... Is BSD really this foolproof?
I had alot of fun with NFS during my Univerity years. Sure it has some nice features as it's lightning-fast and stateless but it's totally unsecure, period.
The NFS server has two parts, the authentication part and the data-server part. The authentication part authenticates based on the IP address of the requester, if successful, it will send the requester the 'key' for the export.
After that, anybody can use that key to request files from the data-server part. And from any IP address!!
There exist a very nice ftp-like tool that lets you play with NFS systems, enter the key manually or use the UID overflow bug to get root privs. And this is only the beginning of the fun !!
Trust me, "Don't use NFS" unless you are running it on a network that is not connected to the rest of the world, and you trust everyone that has access to this network.
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
At one point I was planing on installing FreeBSD along side slackware linux. The installation was much too tedious however.
Click here or here.
Our experience is that on Solaris, if you have an NFS mount that has a failed (offline) server, you will not get an SSH login prompt. OpenSSH apparently scans the file system before providing the prompt, and since it is waiting for NFS to return the mount's info, it never gives the prompt. Would mounting partitions 'soft' fix this?
Yes.
These Windows NFS clients are typically over $300 per seat - which is simply insane. Is there a high quality NFS client for Windows under $100?
Samba is good, but it has to run on the (UNIX) machine that can see the native file system. I'd like to bypass Samba and have the Windows clients talk to NFS directly.
The article is correct; only mountpoints (and not subdirectories) can be entries in /etc/exports. From the `exports' man page (emphasis mine):
Furthermore, the only example given in the man page explicitly identifies the directories listed as mountpoints.
Please don't moderate up comments that sound informational without actually checking your facts first.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Personally I recommend never using NFS. Heck, I wrote a paper about it. It's a bit old, and doesn't cover NFSv4. But of course, NFSv4 doesn't address the basic issue of using the wrong model for the problem, so that's not a big deal. :)
re uid/username: mea culpa.
My original title on this piece was "Introduction to NFS". To the best of my knowledge, ten people in the world truly, deeply understand NFS. Six have won Nobel Prizes, three are in the Institute for the Criminally Insane, and one is not allowed sharp objects and drools on himself a lot. O'Reilly does not seem to like my original titles... ah, well.
Finally, if Slashdot was going to pick up one of my articles... why, my God, did they choose this one? There are many far more interesting and informative Big Scary Daemons out there... take a look at "Linux Emulation, the Hard Way" for one I'm especially proud of. Sigh. Obviously, they don't want the editorial standard to go above that maintained by other Slashdot authors...
There has always been a problem that NFS was compatable across OS'es, but only SunOS/Solaris respected file locks held across the network (via lockd) - is this still the case?
Well, just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should. NFS doesn't export directories--NFS exports filesystems. If you have a FS mounted on /share, and you export /share/somedir, you've actually exported all of /share, even though you may not realize it.