Slashdot Mirror
Slashdot IRC Forum
The IRC forum with CmdrTaco and Hemos is now complete, and a log has been posted. They answered quite a few questions about Slashdot's subscription system, bigger ads, and other assorted stuff. Don't miss the question about pop-up ads.
cmdr... seriously... this isn't going to work. mark this redundant right now...
1) paypal
2) tech saavy audience already disables ads
3) why would i pay to view the content i provide??
4) why would i ADVERTISE on a site that allows its biggest fans to block the ads?
this isn't a good idea. period.
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
After hearing/SEEING how much slashdot costs, and knowing that I'd like to keep reading slashdot, I decided to change my opinion from waiting until the BFA's become annoying and just to pay the subscription because I want to SUPPORT slashdot.. hell I dont care about the AD's. I dont block 'em but I also can IGNORE the ones I dont want to see.. (THose Thinkgeek ones rock!)
But Slashdot folks do go through a bit trying to make sure that the ads are nonintrusive in that they're not popups and so on.. now THOSE would make you want to run away wouldnt that? and they're not using them STILL even with the subscription thing.. so you have to give them some credit in knowing HOW far to go and NOT going over the line.. so why not support them? 5 bucks isnt that much to pay..
Never underestimate the willingness of computer folks to circumvent fees, no matter how small the fee is.
Mod parent up, good points:
Generic surveys or something would be a good idea. I like the idea of Slashdot being a gathering place for early adopters and geeks - unfortunately trolls and the such bring the site down (try browsing at 0 or something and you'll get the point).
Generic surveys for subscribers would rock. I'd definately participate if I knew that Tivo was surveying slashdot users. Or a Compaq survey for "what would you want in a rackmount". If anything, some of us are in positions that make purchasing decisions, we need to advertise this.
Considering that most of us are early adopters of technology, I would *guess* that companies like Tivo, PDA manufacturers, IBM, Compaq, etc. would be lining up to get our input.
Know what? I put that ad-removing code into my user space... read the IRC log and removed it. Specifically when I read this from Hemos:
"Here's the reality: You block ads. You cost us money. Ultimately, I mean."
This is where you have to stop and think "Hey... if Slashdot DOES go down because of a lack of profits, where will I turn?"
Of course, there are other news places to go to. I visit The Register often. However, Slashdot is, despite any errors in editorials or anything... a truly unique news site. For the years I've been reading, I've been pleased overall. We've all encountered bumps in the road, and that bump in the road for users right now is the ads. Now, of course (which I find it ironic that this comes not long after this, but still) many of you are simply not going to go for the idea of something that was once pratically free and devoid of huge ads to have simply changed on you. You'll cheat the system as much as you can, and for the most part, you'll succeed.
But how much will that accomplish? Realize the plight slashdot apparently is in, and how they need to raise money, somehow. Subscriptions and ads are that way. And while I disagree with a lot of the way they're going to implement them... why not just pick one way, even if you have qualms with it, and just go with it? Put aside your inflammatory, trolling and goatse links for a second and realize that Slashdot is truly a useful resource. If you're going to visit this site, for once prove that it doesn't take sneaky or unethical buisness for something to survive... merely a good product. That is what Slashdot is, and most of you know it: a very good product.
While I personally won't be going for a subscription (16 years old = lack of credit card), I will stomach the ads and probably a lot more if they need it to survive.
Seems like a good point by homerj at 16:41 in the chat. Posters give slashdot permission to publish their comments, but it's not a blanket grant. Slashdot can't put the comments in a book and sell the book, for example.
By the same reasoning, wouldn't there be some limits on what slashdot can do to the site and still carry the implied permission by the author? Changing to a for-pay model means that slashdot is now profiting from the site in a way that was not the case when the author posted. Maybe he would not have been willing to use slashdot to publish if he had known that there was money coming in as a pay service, without getting a cut of that money himself.
Seems to me that slashdot may be stepping over the line in charging for content which was submitted with the understanding that it would be published for no charge. Any lawyers care to comment?
I wonder whether CmdrTaco and Hemos really enjoyed the chat. Slashnet was overcrowded by trolls, there were lots of double questions about the ads and subscriptions and I think the Slashdot staff *does* have a mixed feeling on 'going non-free', but they can't go back. According to the logs, already 1,5% of the Slashdot visitors is a paying subscriber. :( I wish him luck nevertheless.
I don't want to sound ungrateful for Slashdot, but some crew change might be welcome too. Slashdot has become a habit - the editors no longer feel obliged to fix half-wrong stories, they don't realize that they piss off a customer with every rejected submission and I think CmdrTaco has rejected *lots* of good ideas tonight. He seems to stick on only no-ads and gold stars, and little extra power for subscribers. Come on Taco, you aren't a suit - some things might not be too easy in Slash (submission of polls, access to the submission queue, a trusted net of paying moderators) but they will prove more robust and much cooler than this ripped-out-of-any-book business model. That's my point: Slashdot gets boring. I hate to see this leading weblog go the same road as so many others.. this is not another troll, Slashdot will be as interesting as it ever was, but the specialty is gone. Hey, we're a community! I liked the chat, but Taco hardly *listened*
Those were interesting suggestions, taco really shouldn't have ignored the question. I don't necessarily like the idea of a "subscribers only" comment tree, but taco's reaction does not reflect well on the willingness of the
I assume that you can pay for a subscription? Unfortunately, some of us can't afford the subscription (honestly) and/or have no way to pay-- no credit cards. Believe me, if I had the $$, I'd subscribe, if only to support /.; as it is, I like some of the ads, ignore the others, and pray my dad finds a job.
Though, I think you're right about comment-subscriptions doing away with the need for moderation. But there are some of us who don't troll, but can't subscribe, either.
Slashdot.org is essentially a website that links to news stories that in a short period has grown into a large fan base. Everyone in IT knows that it is very diffuclt to put a meal on the table by running a website alone. What cmdrtaco and the rest of the slashdot moderators, admins, and etc should do is run slashdot.org on their spare time after hours and get regular 9 to 5 jobs. They could make more money by getting regular jobs and working on slashdot on their spare time.
They could have moderator time slots where moderators work a rotating schedule to scan the stories for ones that should be posted. The slashcode is essentially complete except for ongoing changes to support the new ad based system. So if they got regular jobs they would make more money, still have ad revenue from the banner ad at the top, and they would put slashcode into maintainence mode. It would cut down on the number of headaches, which is always good.
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
People who refuse to pay are not mainly in the group of people who begrudge the cost; probably most readers would gladly part with the money and are largely fairly well-to-do. Its the administrative overhead and risk that stops us.
The 'overhead' refers to filling out forms, tracking the information, and the charges on my credit card. I hate paperwork. This alone is enough to make me leery of participating.
The risk factor is the true stopper though.
I won't give any personal information to anybody because I have been abused in too many ways; not just internet sites but the world at large. I have been sold on lists to telemarketers. I have been charged on my credit cards by fly-by-nights. I have been outright robbed using paypal. I have been spammed. I have had my personal computer cracked by warez hackers and chinese dissidents. I have been, and am being, stalked by a [literally] psychotic guy from New Jersey. I have had my bank account compromised; my credit card hijacked.
In short, my life has been made a living hell by the simple fact that I have given information out to people who all said they wouldn't let it out.
Thus I believe this is the 'ultimate' reason for the dot com failure; nobody ever solved the problem of easy, fast and trustworthy electronic transactions.
Until that problem is solved, slashdot won't get my money.
Wow, FAQs, multiple stories, 3 hours of IRC chat, and people still have 50 million questions, and at least half the comments so far are nothing more than whining and/or trolling.
/., I still shake my head in wonder. Geeks who've made money online, and are still making money. Sometimes I wonder if it's just sour grapes from a lot of formerly-employed dot-commers... but let's face it: if Rob was such the uncaring asshole people make him out to be, he would have just sold Slashdot for a big chunk of change. Taco made something cool, made himself at least something of a career out of it, and is STILL DOING IT. Find me more than a handful of people who can claim that over the past 5 years. AND still will take 3 hours to sit on IRC of all the godforsaken holes in the universe to answer the same 5 questions repeatedly.
Lighten up, people! It's a WEBSITE. A good one, one that I happen to find entertaining and informative, but it's still a website. 300,000+ users a day ain't chump change in the bandwidth game. Keeping a system alive to support that with very little downtime is itself quite an accomplishment (think of how many 'big name' sites have themselves been Slashdotted).
I have yet to actually see any of these 'new' ads, and something tells me I'll be ignoring them just as I would any other ad within a week. Don't like them? Cough up some dough. Don't like that? LEAVE. Why exactly do people keep posting 'I will not pay for a message board'? Fine, then go. Just please stop whining about it.
Every time I visit
Oh well, that was rambling enough. Long story short, if you don't like it, make your own. Whining won't make it any better.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Text ads in metafilter are very effective because
1. Not annoying
2. cheap (relatively)
3. interesting
People (ie. users) pay to put text ads on slashdot. You don't have to charge much, given the popularity of slashdot everyone would want to have their ad on it, for they company, they blog, their site or what ever. Text ads generate money through quantity in numbers of advertisers not in money per ad.
You could have people pay for text ads on front page (cost more) or by category. Have it as a slashbox, people who choose to subscribe can close it, while the rest of "us" (Thats include me) can have the ads while skimming through slashdot.
Just make a good payment queue so you can have a diy system.
I also wanted to make my clear my statement about 18 - 24 months; that's current burn rate. That rate has been rapidly getting better - but please look at the filings with the SEC, and make your own judgement.
Yeah, I'm that guy.
ok boob. did you read the log? were you online for the chat? taco said that any money that comes in is tracked and tagged for /. only
troll.
-
If they want a donation from me, they can go non-profit so that I can get a deduction. If they insist on calling themselves a business, then they provide value for my money. So far, the ad/experience equation was okay for me. But the experience is not offset by the new-ads, and it certainly isn't offset by the subscription.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Ahem,
Slashdot went WAY beyond "FUN" when they decided to make a living.
Whenever hemo's complained about having to cover costs of healthcare, salary and 10 servers i just played him my lil pitty violin.
Oh darn, having to work and provide a PRODUCT to the consumers BEFORE you ask for payment is that hard?
Sure slashdot provides a forum, but without the masses, it is just another "Was". There is nothing wrong with making it a legit business.
IT IS WRONG TO BLAME COSTS ON US. It is wrong for us to Subsidize advertising. I will only pay a subscription whenever i get the benifet of that subscription. Like i have said before, i get some great magazines that i subscribe to, but i don't pay for them to remove the adds, i pay for them WITH the adds because the adds make up the magazine along with the content. If i know i'm in the market for a new GPS with the latest jeppenson airport directory loaded or want to replace the prop on my aircraft i can pickup a private pilot magazine and find a dealer that does just that as well as read some interesting magazines.
Hell slashdot doesn't even cross market itself. I can't find linux vendors here, they sold off VA. There is TONS of things slashdot could generate revenue from to provide a great service.
And this is just supposed to be for fun? Living aint easy.
Hemos,
Guess what, i'm not the CFO of the company i work for either, but i understand our SEC fillings, our budgets, our requirements and what is involved to make our cost center profitable.
Are you saying you don't bother with it or that people are telling you what to do and slashdots "Creative control as promised from the aquisition" is just trying to hide this?
Heck, i'd subscribe if i knew it was a well thought out and developed process. The problem is i don't see any announcements, i don't see any marketing, i don't see anything accept a few "cocky" people giving mixed answers and then saying "next".
I'm sorry, but when WE PAY YOUR BILLS, you DON'T TELL US WHAT IS WRONG OR RIGHT. After all, without the "collective us" you wouldn't have advertising revenue or your quasi famous ego's
Have you already forgotten the customer is always right? Have you forgotten slashdot wouldn't exist without "customers" or visitors in your case?
Why not just move from advertising all the way? Fire your marketing deparment, drop your "ad servers", loose the image hosting bandwidth costs and just use a self service text add system. Move to an NNTP based system where the content is aggregated much the way any NNTP system is.
Everyone has opinions, like everyone has an asshole, so there is no wrong or right. The adds have never been obtrussive, if they get obtrussive then i will leave. I'm not paying just to remove advertising simple as that. I would pay however if i saw you cared about the numbers, you cared about revenue, you cared about cost cutting and your cared about the bottom line.
Instead you guys are still complaining about estimated costs, how you need health care, how you don't sell all your adds how you don't do this or that, but you have never stated HOW YOU COULD MAKE THIS PLACE MORE VALUEABLE AND INCREASE YOUR REVENUES FROM PROVIDING A BETTER PRODUCT.
That is how business is done my friend. LIke i said, i love slashdot, it was worth supporting in adds, it was worth supporting if subscriptions added value, but you guys chose to remove ads over adding value.
I buy magazines for the content and Ads, i like to drool over toys i can't afford, it is part of the whole picture. I liked slashdot for the targeted ads, because they notified me of new products and kept me informed of market trends.
Paying to get rid of part of slashdot is just.. rediculous.
Basically, we run the site. I don't run the company. I'm not the CFO - that's the person who tracks all of that data.
then why were we talking to *you* on irc?
I've noticed Rob say a number of times that the biggest thing deterring Slashdot from doing flat-rate subscriptions is the few who load a TON of pages a day, and they can't support that.
Here's the thing: those people will be there whether you have flat rate or not. The only way to keep these people away would be to have Slashdot be closed to the public. Otherwise, a person who would load a ton of times each day will just plain not pay per view.
If these people who load tons are going to be here no matter what... wouldn't you like to get $5 per month from some of them, instead of nothing from any of them?
I don't care if it turns out to be a better deal to do pay-per-view. Maybe I'll get 3 months of viewing out of it. But I'll hate page-pinching every time I read, and the page-pinching will be unavoidable and in the back of my mind all the time. Give me the chance to just have peace of mind.
That's all!
mark
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. -- Carl Sagan
I have no mod points to throw at this comment, so I'm going to say that I agree.
./ learn from this?
Sites with large, loyal fan bases find that their readers are usually all too happy to pitch in with money and equipment donation... when those in charge about completey open and honest-- and if they don't know the answer to that particular question go "Hweey! I don't know... but since you, the readers, are our bread and butter, I'll find out."
Popular RPG/nich-game site thegia.com was in a similar sort of situation a few months ago.
It was a case of hardware failure, requiring many thousands of dollars to replae lost and destroyed hardware.
So they set up a "domations" page. saying exactly what the problem was, exactly what needed to be done... and a list of "crazy things the staff would do if certain monetary goals were met."
IN addition, small extras were offered (exclusive wallpaper) as well.
Witihin DAYS, they had raised 10,000 dollars(US).
What can
Be completely open and honest. Full disclosure. Thell what the money is needed for., why and how much. Make it very clear that they are ASKING its lifeblood (the readers) to help the site out.
And maybe offer a little tangible extras.
--M.
... and the next time the man comes to visit the library, he finds the doors boarded up and a sign saying "Unfortunately, due to the lack of support from our users we have had to close".