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Online Population now Half Billion

mattvd writes "According to CNN, the number of people with Web access at home by the end of 2001 was 498 million." Not surprisingly, Asia is growing the fastest. It's amazing that in only 10 years or so, the net has exploded so far, so fast, and now touches 10% of the earths population.

74 of 269 comments (clear)

  1. On Spam. by forged · · Score: 2, Funny

    Let's hope all these new sexy users won't spam my mailbox more than it is already :)

    1. Re:On Spam. by Mr_Matt · · Score: 2

      They already are, dude. Heck, I could've said there were a half-billion people online three months ago...I got at least that many "I send you this file for your advice" spams. :)

      --


      But what does my opinion matter, I just vote here. It's not like I have any money or anything.
    2. Re:On Spam. by AndroidCat · · Score: 2

      Alas many of those installations in Asia have open email servers and proxies by default. They'll rot in a lot of blacklists until they learn to be good netizens.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  2. Wait by HanzoSan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When 600 million Chinese, 100 million japanese, 300 million indians, and 40-50 million africans get online, thats when the real online revolution will take place.

    Right now we need to make sure they all have the choice to use Linux, give them some good development tools, graphics tools, and just wait for them to produce information which benifits the world, hopefully they wont be as capitalist as us and patent everything or else we'll be at their mercy.

    --
    If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
    1. Re:Wait by sc_demandred · · Score: 2, Informative
      Although it's not likely to happen anytime soon, having China connected would more than triple the percentage of humans that use the web.


      Sure, but if you read this article, it seems unlikely that the Chinese government will allow much in the way of freedom over the internet. The US would do well to squeeze China into relaxing the iron fist of censorship in order to promote freedom of Web... then we will see some serious innovation and the realization of the internet's potential.

      --

      The hooligans are loose! The hooligans are loose! What if they become ruffians? -- Bill Hicks

    2. Re:Wait by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 2

      When 600 million Chinese, 100 million japanese, 300 million indians, and 40-50 million africans get online, thats when the real online revolution will take place.

      Revolution for whom? Us, or them?

      It just seems that at best, open and cheap Internet access for Asia and Africa will have them devouring our culture, not the other way around.

      It's not that our culture is so bad... wait, yes it is.

      --
      The Internet is generally stupid
    3. Re:Wait by skilef · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also, regardless of whether they use Linux, dumb terminals, or that Other Operating System, this would be a huge step forward for free speech and democracy.

      This subject has been discussed previous. According to this article/discussion about E-mail censorship and this one about WWW-censorship, free speech on the internet (and democracy?) will take a little longer in China.

      --

      You do not exist. Go away.
    4. Re:Wait by Nehemiah+S. · · Score: 2, Funny

      They arent stupid, they know we dominate the culture of the internet and our culture is about capitalism and greed, They want to improve their own economy not ours, so it makes sense for them to do what they are doing.


      And if you really believe that, I've got a bridge in Xinjiang I'll sell you, dirt cheap. US dollars only, please.

      (tempering the flame with an honest question: How can you improve an economy without learning about capitalism? The Chinese gov't has only one thing in mind when it censors the internet, and it isn't economic expansion through protection of domestic entrepreneurs.)

      --
      ... and there is no doubt, that one day he will be
      where the eye of his telescope has already been
    5. Re:Wait by interstellar_donkey · · Score: 2

      They arent stupid, they know we dominate the culture of the internet and our culture is about capitalism and greed, They want to improve their own economy not ours, so it makes sense for them to do what they are doing.

      As you said, China is interested in developing it's economy, but the fear is'nt that the some Chinese upstart figures out a way to make a little scratch selling something the Westerners.

      The fear is that Western ideas will flow into China. To the improverished, our lifestyle looks propserperous, happy, and wonderful. By the time they figure out it's plastic, fake, and generally unfullfilling it's too late.

      --
      The Internet is generally stupid
    6. Re:Wait by HanzoSan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its about preserving their culture, about improving their own economy, thats why they are beginning to avoid Microsoft,

      You dont know much about China do you? Culture is everything, at least to the older generation.

      There is no culture in the USA besides capitalism,

      China sees us as cultureless and they dont want to end up like us. They like the technology of the internet but they dont like our culture and dont want to expose their youth to it.

      How can you improve an economy without learning about capitalism? You have forgotten about communism?

      It doenst benifit China in ANY way whatsoever to use our Internet, it makes more sense for them to create a seperate internet.

      So tell me what the Chinese government has in mind, please no "Evil Communist" crap either, i want logical reasons.

      In the usa, Oppression was about Capitalism and making money, it was for a reason, Censorship was about making money and maintaining power.

      The Chinese see us as their biggest threat, their greatest competitor, for them to join us in the internet, and fall down and bow before aol and microsoft, you must be joking.

      --
      If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
    7. Re:Wait by HanzoSan · · Score: 2

      What you say, i agree with.

      We market our culture to look perfect, when its not.

      China has to protect itself from us, You do have a point its not so much fear of capitalism, its fear of our culture.

      Because if they try to become part of our culture or part of our economy they'll be at the bottom of the pyramid. They'd be better of building their own seperate pyramid.

      --
      If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
    8. Re:Wait by redcup · · Score: 2, Interesting

      China isn't stupid. The government uses the military to keep information censored and the people powerless. Yes, in the US the media and the government does manipulate information, but we have access to other sources that are not manipulated in the same way.

      I do agree you must be 13 since you don't know a thing about Tiananmen Sq. Unless you think their current persecution of the Falun Gong is a sign that the government is "relaxing a bit and opening up?"

      Or is it "what is best for their economy?" Take a look at Hong Kong. It scares China because it had much more freedom and both the people and the economy prospered. Everyone wants to move there from Mainland China, so the government put restrictions on who can live there and have removed the popular vote from the upper parliament and replaced it with wealthy members of the Communist party.

      And of course China's long history and defiance in the face of institutionalized and continuing human rights abuses must be what you chalk up as "the people suffer a bit." But I guess you agree that when "the people develop their own businesses on the net and their own culture" they will for give the government for burying their newly born child alive and sterilizing the woman.

      You need a backhoe to shovel all that sh*t and you and everyone else knows it.

      bah... that was worth the rant. I have enough karma that I can call you on your distortion of the truth without fearing for a precious few points. Isn't that what karma is really about?

      --

      RC
    9. Re:Wait by HanzoSan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You act as if the USA is better? People in the USA are hypocrites,, I mean the USA has done stuff in its past that was as bad as China, remember slavery? Remember the Cival war? All the stuff that happened in the USA, Sure we may be 50 years ahead of China as far as our governments developed, but we cannot say that we always had more freedomm than China because in the past we were as bad as China, we were as bad as China up until around 100 years ago.

      I say we shouldnt worry about China, let China be China and deal with their own problems, The reason we have the Al Qaeda problem is because try to influence other countries and force our culture on them.

      I understand we have slightly more freedoms than China, but we arent perfect ourselves, so why should we act likee the Police Nation?

      --
      If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
    10. Re:Wait by Nehemiah+S. · · Score: 2

      You dont know much about China do you? Culture is everything, at least to the older generation.

      Actually i was a Asian Area Studies minor (aeroengr major :) in undergrad, spent 3 years married to an ethnic chinese immigrant (first gen), and once had a basic speaking knowledge of cantonese (pretty much lost now since I haven't exercised it since the late eighties).

      China sees us as cultureless and they dont want to end up like us.

      "China" doesn't see us as anything. China is a country, made up of 1.3 billion people. To say that they all think one way or another (despite the best efforts of official propaganda etc) is at best intellectually irresponsible and at worst a blatantly racist generalization.

      However, the chinese word for "foreigner" translates more directly to "unhuman"... from this I suspect that in reality what our culture is is irrelevant; we aren't Chinese, therefore we are bad. All this is tangential, however; chinese gov't censorship isn't about culture, it's about freedom of information and the availability of outside ideas.

      There is no culture in the USA besides capitalism,

      Actually the United States is primarily a socialist culture backed by a capitalist economy. Our culture is dominated by Hollywood movies, produced by people with high creativity but low technical IQ's. I can think of very few writers or filmmakers espousing capitalist ideals. "Save the Children" campaigns take place much more often than "support your local factory"... There are some capitalist cultural influences, but they are by no means the dominant voice. capitalism survives despite the fact that everyone is trained to despise it, for the simple reasons that it is basic human nature and the only effective means of resource distribution.

      You have forgotten about communism?

      Historically, only a very primative country can improve its standard of living under a communist system. I haven't forgotten about communism, although I wish I could. Sorry, but anyone still defending communism in 2002 is either very dumb or trolling.

      So tell me what the Chinese government has in mind, please no "Evil Communist" crap either, i want logical reasons.

      Freedom of information leads to dissent. Even the most pro-communist sympathizer must realize the a totalitarian regime (and yes, totalitarian regimes are invariably Evil) will do anything to maintain power through squelching dissent. Familiar with recent events in China? Sucks to be nonhomogeneous there...

      In the usa, Oppression was about Capitalism and making money, it was for a reason, Censorship was about making money and maintaining power.


      This sentence doesn't parse. Can you please restate it, preferably in complete sentences? And don't give me that "Capitalism is Evil" crap, give me logical reasons :-) Keep in mind that we could be executed for having this conversation if we were writing from beijing coffee shops (except that we couldn't be writing it from there, because they closed them all down).

      --
      ... and there is no doubt, that one day he will be
      where the eye of his telescope has already been
    11. Re:Wait by Xerithane · · Score: 2

      People in the USA are hypocrites,, I mean the USA has done stuff in its past that was as bad as China, remember slavery? Remember the Cival war? All the stuff that happened in the USA,

      Uh, yeah. Slavery.. that makes the american populace hypocrites? Because they ended slavery 2 centuries ago?

      Americans don't have "slightly more" freedoms than China. Americans have a lot more freedoms than China. I can go to downtown New York and scream at the top of my lungs that the terrorists were right - but you know what? It's perfectly legal for me to do so. I can look at porn on the internet sitting in downtown san francisco -- it's perfectly legal.

      Your problem is you are seeing a rivalry and comparison. Two different nations are apples and oranges. Let China be, I agree. The people make the country -- if the people accept western culture and bring it into their life there is nothing the government can do to stop it. 1.3 billion people versus a few in the government doesn't match up.

      And America acts like the police nation so America is secured as a super power and selects it's allies. America doesn't try to influence other cultures. America doesn't force our culture upon them. American culture spreads by it's very nature -- somewhat similar to open source. It's an open culture, full of ideals and illusions. America doesn't hold a gun to anyones head and demands they play Britney Spears at the local cyber cafe.

      Other countries find the american culture intruiging and try to take the best of it, while omitting the worst. Unfortunately, you can't -- then they hate america for it. I'll stick with European cultures -- they have a lot figured out, and are actually happy people. More than I can say for most americans.

      --
      Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
    12. Re:Wait by HanzoSan · · Score: 3, Insightful



      Alot more freedoms?

      Ok, what happens if you write some source code which decodes the RIAAs copy protected CD, well, guess what you go to jail, all your freedom? Where is it?

      Oh and lets not forget, you dont have freedom to even control the information produced by your computer hardware.

      Soon you may not even have the freedom of writing open source software at all.

      Its not just software, but the whole capitalist system takes away your freedom and gives it to businesses.

      What happened to the individuality and your freedom? Guess its all about business now.

      USA doesnt force its culture on people? What was Vietnam about again? What about the cold war?

      USA doesnt hold a gun to peoples head? Tell that to Fidel.

      the USA has enemies because the USA spreads everywhere, Bin laden attacked us because we got involved with him, we destroyed afganastan using bin laden to fight our little enemies the Russians, the whole battle with the Russians was because they had a diffrent culture, we wanted them to be like us and had an entire cold war over it.

      Now we want to go bother Sadam for the same reason, We should get out of the middle east right now, Stop helping Isreal, Stop attacking Iraq, stop bothering North Korea

      None of these countries attacked us, yet we go there and attack them, then we act surprised when they all gang up on us and do a 911 style attack on us.

      There shouldnt be a world government, and if there was, it we shouldnt be the police of the world and expect to not be the biggest target. 911 only happened because we caused it, cause and effect.

      Sure Bin laden may not have liked our culture, but he would have never attacked us if we didnt go bother him first and we DID bother him first, we arent innocent.

      I'm tired of biased Americans acting like the USA can do no wrong, and its always the innocent angels in the USA vs "EVIL" or the AXIS of EVIL

      The UN doesnt support what we are doing, because its wrong, Sure we have the right to attack Al Qaeda, but Iraq? North Korea? Cuba, Somolia, Russia, all this stuff didnt have to happen.In fact if none of it did happen, we wouldnt be hated.

      --
      If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
    13. Re:Wait by Xerithane · · Score: 2

      As for your "lost freedoms" -- they are bunk. Yes, the DMCA is unconstitutional in it's very foundation -- but no one has been persecuted from it yet. Keep that in mind.

      As for your assessment of international politics of America -- again, it's bunk. It's called Allies and Partners. The whole world does it, everyone has partners and enemies. Get over it.

      Fidel is also a very bad example. What happened to Cuba was Fidel's own fault. I have no qualms against them. As for Bin Laden hating America, that has nothing to do with the US using him against Russia. It's against the American way of life and mentality. So be it, that's called racism. If you think America is so restrictive, do me a favor and go live in China or North Korea and you may start to appreciate what you can find in America. Every government is corrupt. It's the lesser of evils and being on top. All through the world unjust and immoral things happen . Go walk through the downtown of a 3rd world country and tell me that it's ok -- america should just stop helping them.

      I'm tired of biased Americans too -- but what's worse is Americans who think that the rest of the world would be so much better off without american involvement. Do yourself a favor and realize every government plays a part in the outcome of the world. Pointing the finger at America doesn't solve anything. Blame everyone -- because that's whose fault it is.

      --
      Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
  3. 498 million seems like so much... by suso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But 10% seems like so little. As John "Maddog" Hall says, that just means that 5 billion people haven't choosen their operating system yet.

    1. Re:498 million seems like so much... by cybermage · · Score: 2

      Or don't have the hardware yet.

      Or anything to connect the hardware to. We take things like power and phone for granted.

    2. Re:498 million seems like so much... by sporktoast · · Score: 2

      More like just around 8%, meaning there's over 5.5 billion people left.
      And growing.

      We'd better hurry up and find those 4 additional Earths, so there can be enough natural resources for everyone to be able to get online!

      --
      In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss.
  4. Half of Half a Billion by slipkid · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...And, in related news, half of the Online Population still believe that "the Internet" and "AOL" are synonymous (the same half, incidentally, who thought 'The Net' was a great film).

    1. Re:Half of Half a Billion by suso · · Score: 2

      You mean "The Net" was a film?

    2. Re:Half of Half a Billion by slipkid · · Score: 2, Funny

      Only in the loosest sense of the word...

  5. End of the WWW by DCram · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With news like this comming out it makes me wonder what these people who say that the WWW is going to die are thinking. With a base as large as that it is near imposible to kill it. Im sure there will be new tech that comes along and makes the WWW better faster and friendlier but die? I don't think so.

    Now the problem is with all these people fighting over bandwidth when are chaeper faster pipes be available for us to use? When can I say hey there are 1 mill users hitting my site and there is no lag?

    I also wonder what these people are looking at. 90% porn and the other 10% refrence material and such.

    --
    If I were only smart enough to accomplish the things I dream about.. Or maybe too dumb to care.
    1. Re: End of the WWW by suso · · Score: 2

      Brave words, I've heard them before, from thousands of species across thousands of worlds since long before you were created. And now they are all AOL users.

    2. Re:End of the WWW by denzo · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I don't think the argument is that the Web will disappear or not be used anymore, but that its content-to-noise ratio will worsen. In its beginnings, the WWW had mostly academic documents, which could be considered high-quality and accurate information. As the number of Internet users has grown, there is a greater percentage of garbage compared to useful information. We now have annoying pop-ups, DoS'ed IRC servers, messageboard full of flamefests, etc. Internet advertising companies are now spreading themselves thin over millions of Web pages, causing advertising revenue for each of the Web sites to fall drastically. Various big Web sites are disappearing because they cannot afford their bandwidth, and free file downloads are becoming more scarce (the exceptions are large networks like ZDNet, or servers that cater to limited groups like Linux... but when Linux REALLY picks up, will we still have the same access to free FTP mirrors?).

      If you look at it that way, the future of the Web looks kinda bleak.

  6. 1/2 a billion... by SuperCal · · Score: 2, Funny

    I find it amazing that there could be half a billion people online and I still can't find decent content... Slashdot excluded of cource.

    --
    Business News and Resources: www.usasource.net
  7. Population figures by Reedo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How much of the earth's population has access to TV?

    There are 6.2 billion people on the planet now, by the way.

  8. Pretty close by quantaman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With the current population 5,995,544,836 that makes the percent of the people online only about 8.3%. In reality it's probably even lower when you think about how many millions of those are using AOL connections;)

    --
    I stole this Sig
    1. Re:Pretty close by Dephex+Twin · · Score: 3, Funny
      With the current population 5,995,544,836

      Man, the census has gotten accurate in recent years!

      mark
      --

      If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. -- Carl Sagan
    2. Re:Pretty close by inerte · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't know about you, but I am hoping this weekend I will lower this percentage.

    3. Re:Pretty close by inerte · · Score: 2, Funny

      Total, of course, but the results might only come in nine months :-)

  9. Slashdot/Asia? by dcigary · · Score: 2

    Let's just hope there's no Slashdot-Asia planned for the near future. That would REALLY take the Slashdot effect to a new level....

    --
    ...my Karma ran over your Dogma...
    1. Re:Slashdot/Asia? by President+Chimp+Toe · · Score: 5, Informative

      Let's just hope there's no Slashdot-Asia planned for the near future. That would REALLY take the Slashdot effect to a new level....

      Erm, there is dude. Check it out, its japanese.

      When we get chinese slashdot, then we really start frigging worrying.

    2. Re:Slashdot/Asia? by President+Chimp+Toe · · Score: 2, Funny

      Consider it done :-)

      So this is the product of half a billion net users, spread far and wide across the globe? Yep, now we have cross-cultural trolling.

      Modded down on two continents at once, now that is what i call trolling....

    3. Re:Slashdot/Asia? by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2, Funny
      Babelfish had fun with this one...

      • (Score: 2, it is strange funny)
      • The | parent comment which writes the reply [ vis-a-vis this ]
      • "The nest it does" and "the even way" for sorting messages. I like the sound of the even way.
      • and.. It has been said S0R5, " article of the Yomiuri Shimbun Company (ahead linking Yahoo! News) according to, before pouring radiation, when the beer is drunk, it was found that it is the possibility where it can prevent the obstacle due to being bombed so is. If it can prevent truly, being to be funny, it does, if you want to know, but whether the above that you happen to think such a thing with something. "

      I love the fish!

  10. am from india.... by univgeek · · Score: 5, Interesting
    And although systems are expensive, and most college students do not have computers/internet access from home, there are hundreds of internet cafes in each city. The rate for access is around 25c to 50c an hour. They also allow gaming, voice chat etc. Since the cost of local and international long distance is quite high in India (cross-subsidizing the rural areas) a lot of illegal (currently) voice chat takes place in the browsing cafes.


    Most students in the cities have email and access the net quite regularly, if only for gaming or chat through these cyber-cafes and not at home. Also gives privacy ;-)....


    And once the government legalises VoIP there is definitely going to be a huge boom in the use of the cyber-cafes.


    I am pretty sure that this must be the case in most developing economies. Of course like this article says it needs to become a productivity tool.

    --
    All bow to his Noodliness!! His Noodle Appendage has touched me!
    1. Re:am from india.... by PaxTech · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Why is VoIP illegal in India?

      Because India has some seriously entrenched corruption problems. VoIP would hurt the phone company, and the phone company bosses wouldn't like that.

      Here in the USA of course, we are MUCH more civilized and would NEVER, EVER let a corporations concern over profits dictate our laws and regulations.

      --
      All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
  11. Actually by HanzoSan · · Score: 2



    I dont believe 100 percent of every chinese personn will be connected. But i do believe maybe 70 percent will.

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    If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
    1. Re:Actually by HanzoSan · · Score: 2

      70% of the USA has a computer, 90% have access to the net by some other means

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      If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
  12. A little perspective... by isaac · · Score: 4, Informative
    I'm not surprised that the internet has reached 10% of the world's population - it's the richest 10%. I'll be more (pleasantly) surprised when the internet reaches 30% of the world's population - because then it will truly have made inroads into currently unserved or underserved populations - i.e. the 85% of the world that lives in what people in the US, EU, Japan, S. Korea, etc. would call abject poverty. (People in the 80th or 70th percentile, though, are themselves significantly wealthier than the 60% of the world's population that could truly be described as economically poor.)

    For a little perspective, check out the brochure from the ITU World Telecommunication Development Conference 2002. A hopeful note, according to that link: "Africa now has more than twice as many main telephone connections as Tokyo and 85 percent of today's world population share 45 percent of all telephone lines (see Figure 1). In comparison, in 1984, 90 percent of the world's people used only ten percent of all telephone lines."

    -Isaac

    --
    I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
    1. Re:A little perspective... by King_TJ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, while not wanting to wish "abject poverty" on anyone - I think reality is, we'll always have a large percentage of people falling into that classification. Some of it is due to the geography. There are certain places in the world that just aren't good to inhabit if you want to earn money and live a good quality of life.

      If the Internet does eventually reach 30% of the population, I'd say that's due to the "trickle down" effect. PCs that the wealthier 10% discard as useless get recycled into quite usable Internet terminals for people who can't afford something newer.

      Of course, the communications infrastructure is the limiting factor, ultimately. You can sit there with the nicest PC in the world, but you can't get online if nobody will give you a connection.

    2. Re:A little perspective... by segonds · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think reality is, we'll always have a large percentage of people falling into that classification. Some of it is due to the geography. There are certain places in the world that just aren't good to inhabit if you want to earn money and live a good quality of life.

      Canadian endures cold winters and it is a developed country. Texas is quite warn and is part of a developped country. Israel tamed desert.

      In a word, poverty has little to do with location and much more with history.

  13. Nielsen/Net Ratings - more data by fleener · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here is the PDF from Nielsen. It contains more data than the CNN story.

  14. It's just too bad by suckwhat · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...that some of these people haven't downloaded the latest version of the Internet. I actually went out the other day to buy a new version of the Internet, and the sales guy looked at me like I was stupid. So I smacked him.

    --
    -------------------------------------------
    Saving baby carrots around the globe.
  15. technology and puffery by Petrox · · Score: 2, Insightful
    So as I don't come off sounding too cynical, let me first say that I think the Internet is a powerful and important set of technologies. It has changed the way I work, play and interact with others.

    We cannot lose sight of the fact, however, that it is not the only way to work, live and be social. As the article states, 90% of the world is still not online, and it's a safe bet to say that many of those have probably never even heard of the Internet, and perhaps have no interest in it. While the propogation of these types of technologies throughout Asia and Africa would no doubt improve many lives and perhaps even give credibility to the notion that technology can help people transcend constraining economic, social and political barriers, we must still remember that we are living in a mostly offline world in which technology and modernity has just as often been used to oppress, homogenize and destroy.

    So yes, the growth of the Internet is amazing, but, as with everything else, we should no be surprised to find unintended consequences from its growth.

    --
    sig my booty, check my website
  16. Re:Speed it up by phaze3000 · · Score: 2
    I couldn't agree more.

    Of course, it'll also mean many more technology jobs, which is exactly what we need right now.. who needs y2k? :)

    --
    Blaming GW Bush for the Iraq war is like blaming Ronald McDonald for the poor quality of food.
  17. Just when linux was dead on the desktop by HanzoSan · · Score: 2


    Well you see, theres only billions of people left and millions of internet cafes and terminals in 3rd world countries who need an OS thats easy to use and cheap.

    Say hello to linux on the desktop.

    Not to mention Linux on the desktop would actually help promote innovation through contribution via GNU.

    --
    If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
    1. Re:Just when linux was dead on the desktop by piecewise · · Score: 2

      The only two internet cafes I've ever been in, in California, were 100% Mac, just for the record. So if you wanna say Unix on the Desktop is the way to go, then your only viable option is the Mac. Linux just doesn't cut it... and certainly Windows does not.

      Don't mean to start a flame war, I'm just here to correct the statement that Win95 is the only thing used in internet cafes. It absolutely is not.

      --
      The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
  18. The USA isnt about freedom, the USA wants this by HanzoSan · · Score: 2


    The USA wants the government not to control the Chinese internet, so their our US Capitalist big businesses can take control.

    We dont have freedom on the net ourselves, China wont have it either, its about control, the US wants to dominate the internet and China is a big market, by opening them up it opens them up to Capitalism.

    China is most likely to use linux than we are, i thought we were all about freedom.

    --
    If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
    1. Re:The USA isnt about freedom, the USA wants this by HanzoSan · · Score: 2

      Thats not usually how it works.

      Usually a worker in beijing signs a contract, to have people in their country work in sweatshops to make some sneakers or do cheap labor for us.

      China = cheap labor.

      China doesnt want to be our cheap labor.

      --
      If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
  19. Usability still an issue by NathanBFH · · Score: 4, Interesting

    500 million people certainly is a lot, and the industry as a whole has quite a bit to brag about (that much growth in only 10 years is phenominal.) However, there are a lot of the things the industry should be ashamed of, too. Usability seems to have come a long way in the last few years, but the best thing to ever happen to personal computing in terms of usability, the introduction of the GUI-based PC to the masses, will be the celebrating it's 20th birthday in 2004. 20 years and there is still a market for 400 page manuals on How To Use Microsoft Windows selling in Barnes and Nobles. How many 400 page manuals do you see selling on how to operate your microwave or your alarm clock? Your TV? How about how to send snail mail or take/develop photos? Sure PC's are complicated machines, sure the PC can do a lot more than a microwave... but does Jane Doe Grandma care? Not really, she just wants to see pictures of her grandchildren on that live hundreds miles of away, and she wants them on Christmas morning as they open their gifts. How likely is she to spend hours trying to learn how to buy a computer, plug in the 7 different wires, figure out how to dial up to a service provider, learn how to launch and use her email client, and load up the attached pictures in her photo-editing software. Not likely. It's not that she or the billions of other people on this planet that are not connected aren't capable of learning, it's that it's just not worth it to them. Face it: using a PC takes a time investment of several hours _just_ to do basic tasks, and all these people want to do is send email/pictures/video to their families, maybe read the news, and be done with it. What other home appliance (since that's what the PC is and should be to these people) have you seen that takes 2 minutes to boot up? How about that you have to push 30+ buttons to operate (how many keyboard presses & mouse clicks does it take to do what Jane Doe Grandma wants?). This all sounds pretty trivial to us geeks because we're used to pressing THOUSANDS of buttons a day to get what we want done, but we are a minority. To the 5.5 billion other people on this planet: it just seems too complicated. Have there been attempts at bridging the gap between layman and machine? Of course, but most have failed miserably. Email appliances were clunky, ugly, and still unbelievably hard to use. Windows XP still has the same complicated GUI that has been around for more 7 years (just with bigger, brighter, more obxnoxious buttons). Does it look easier? Sure, I guess. Still takes hundreds of mouse clicks to read email/news. My TV takes three to get CNN.

    1. Re:Usability still an issue by EllF · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "using a PC takes a time investment of several hours _just_ to do basic tasks"

      "Still takes hundreds of mouse clicks to read email/news"

      What kind of operating system are you using? At work, I develop (via cygwin, no less) on an NT box; at home I only run linux. With my work system, it takes three clicks to check my mail - a doubleclick to open my browser, and one more (which isn't mandatory) to confirm my username and password. On my linux box, it takes one click to open mozilla. That's it. Neither of these tasks take more than 20 seconds.

      To address a few other scattered claims: my computer boots in 35 seconds, not 2 minutes. I do not press "buttons", although I occasionally click to open a menu. For the 5.5 billion people on the planet who to whom "it just seems too complicated" (which I doubt), the television industry is perfectly happy to turn you into a passive recepient of crap. No, stay there - we'll let you know when you should move.

      You do raise an interesting point on a more abstract level, however. Should we (as computer users) drive the market towards a nearly idiotic level of "useability"? I think not. Your grandmother doesn't *need* to know how to use her operating system with the acuity and depth presented in those 400+ page tomes in your local McBookstore. She's fine with the glossy book that came in the Compaq box.

      See, computers are fundamentally different from your toaster or your television. They let you *create* things - via code, image manipulation, sound editing, etc. Each of this these involves a bit of a time commitment and some learning, but they reap rewards for that. A decent analogy is higher education: would you claim that the "hundreds" of books you average college student reads are entirely too many, and that education should be dumbed down for the "layman"?

      Computers are a tool. They might have shiny Widgets to play with, but they are still tools - and what you get out of them will be proportional to what you put in. Attempts to make this an uneven relationship (ie, you get out 10x what you put in) will fail. As Einstein (almost) wrote, "simply everything as much as possible, but no more."

      --
      We who were living are now dying
      With a little patience
    2. Re:Usability still an issue by jhines0042 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree with you that the user interface could be made more user friendly... but at the expense of power. This is the trade off.

      Remember the good old pocket calculator? Remember how it used to just add and subtract, multiply and divide. Then it could do square roots, raise to the power... Now they can graph things etc. Problem is that as the number of functions that you want to accomplish increase and the number of variables that you want to change increase, you get ever increasing complexity.

      Imagine if you will a washing machine that also was able to dry clothes, knit sweaters, pop popcorn, and wax the floors of your house. How on earth would you make something with such a diverse set of functions operate with a simple user interface that was intuitive for all users? What if grandma (or little johnny) just needed to have it knit sweaters? Could she learn how? Sure. But it would take some effort.

      It is sad to see that we have become so ingrained with the fast food instant gratification lifestyle in America that we want someone to sell us an appliance (PC) that does exactly what we want without any thinking.

      When I was growing up... I played with Legos, Lincoln Logs, Sticks Rocks -n- String and all sorts of great things. My first computer was a Commodore 64 and I didn't have a disk or tape drive. I turned it on and I programmed on it. Of course that was fairly simple becaues that was the only thing that I COULD do on it so that is what I learned to do on it.

      Perhaps what we need is a way to not think of the PC as the Appliance. Think of the PC as an Appliance Storage Mechanism and each of the Applications as the Appliances. Each program is pretty easy to learn by itself. Once you have one down you can learn the next one... and some of the knowledge transfers.

      --
      42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
    3. Re:Usability still an issue by stubear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This ia all fine and well but there are tywo problems with your argument. First of all, Microwaves and the other list of small appliances do not perform the myriad of tasks the PC is expected to perform.

      The other problem is getting programmers to actually listen to and implement proper user interfaces. Human Interface Guidelines aren't written for the health of the authors. They are written so developers can build applications which fllow a certain set of rules of consistancy. The HIGs exist, get the pig-headed developers to follow them.

    4. Re:Usability still an issue by NathanBFH · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You bring up some very interesting rebuttels to my post, and I thank you for your feedback. I'll let you know that I agree with almost all of your points (that computers should not be dumbed down for the layman). However, that is not exactly what I meant to imply. Computers will always have their place. You can turn my PC into an appliance over my dead body! What I'm suggesting is that if there was a way to provide simple services such as email (in text/voice/video form) that everyone would benefit. A breed of device seperate from a typical PC that anyone can use.

      On the point of mouse clicks/keyboard presses:
      If you wanted to bring simple webservices like email to a person that's never used a computer before you would probably sign them up for a free service such as hotmail or yahoo. I want to diagram how many button presses are involved (this all may sound ridiculous and extremely mellodramatic, but the truth is non-geeky people often get confused by all the steps involved):

      - Double Click Internet Explorer from the standard 5-15 icons that are on the desktop. Keep in mind that the Internet Explorer icon is about 1/100th the size of the entire desktop, and a non-tech user can often get lost in the many icons present.
      [ 2 clicks ]

      - Click in the address bar (which is among 20 other buttons) and type in the (archaic) web address http://www.hotmail.com.
      [1 click, 22 key presses]

      - In the sign in box type your user name (again, sometimes lost in all the buttons on the screen. Sounds ridiculous, but I've seen users have trouble finding it)
      [1 click, ~8 key presses ]

      - Same for the password
      [1 click, ~8 key presses ]

      - Sign In Button
      [1 click]

      Now you are provided with a user interface (the website) inside of a user interface (the browser) inside of _another_ user interface (the OS). When I sign in to my Yahoo! account, there are no less than 50 links on the page. The browser has another 20 buttons, and the OS has a task bar with who knows what in the tray, a min/max/close button, ect. It's a kalidescopic nightmare for the untrained user.

      And that's just email.

      Granted it gets easier with time, granted we all had to learn it, but it seems like nothing has changed in the last 20 years. It feels like we have made very little ground. And it seems like an incomprehensible mess to a first time user. Now how many key presses does it take to read each message? Which button out of the 50 available does what I want? You mean that small (16x16 pixel) button? The one next to the other 12 buttons that's below the big bar of other buttons and next to the message that says my computer "Isn't optimized for the Internet"? Couldn't this confusion be halved/quarted/_almost_ totally eliminated?

      Past solutions have involved dumbing down the PC. I think that's a terrible idea. Millions of people use PC's with out (many) problems and love the flexibality they provide, including myself. But most don't care about flexability. They don't care that their comptuer can run all the latest applications/OSes. They just want email!

      I'm just throwing some food out. I would love to hear rebuttles/other ideas.

  20. The revolution will not be televised. by Kushana · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There's not going to be a revolution. Why should there? Has anyone English been significantly affected by the addition of millions of Japanese pages? Will the addition of billions of Chinese pages make any difference? No.

    Even the addition of millions of Chinese surfers will not make a difference to the web. They're going to be off surfing, producing, and supporting mostly Chinese sites, and we will stay in the English ones.

    In fact, I would propose that the addition of all those extra people makes the Net less prone to revolution, not more. If they were competing with us for scare resources, that would be one thing. But the Net will expand exponentially to accommodate them and they can all do their own thing. In their own language.

    --

    Careers should combine three things: what you can do, what you want to do, and what you can get paid for.
    1. Re:The revolution will not be televised. by HanzoSan · · Score: 2



      You think too much about websites, what about GNU software?

      More third world countries = more programmers for GNU Linux and bigger community.

      --
      If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
  21. Re:am from india....[OT] by univgeek · · Score: 2, Informative
    Err... yes they can. The telephony sector was a government monopoly. India was (is) a socialist state. That is not truly capitalistic. Only now the government has allowed competition in the local loop, and telephony in general. The international long-distance market was recently privatised (meaning competition from private companies) and so too the domestic long distance.


    VoIP is legal from March 1st or something. The only condition is that service providers must state if the call is toll quality or not in their ads.


    The cost of long distance was high in order to cross subsidize the rural areas. They are slowly giving up on this, although quite a large portion of the country now has telephony access due to this.

    --
    All bow to his Noodliness!! His Noodle Appendage has touched me!
  22. Re:There should be more than one IP per person by Kintanon · · Score: 2

    Frankly I want to get an IP addie assigned at birth, and then spawn my devices off as ports on that IP. Like, my machine at work could be first.middle.last.unique:666 and my machine at home could be port 777, and my coffee maker could be port 42, and my refrigeratore could be port 32, and my TV would be whatever...
    Then I wouldn't need so many ip addies, since no one is going to end up with more than 65K devices until we start using nanotech and my pants need 3 billion ip addies to administer all of the fibers...>:)

    Kintanon

    --
    Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
  23. Umm.. WRONG! by PaxTech · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Did you even READ the article you cited? It does NOT say 18% of Americans lack telephone service, it says 18% of HOUSEHOLDS whose income is BELOW THE POVERTY LEVEL lack telephone service.

    The correct statistic from your cite is 6.1% of all American households lack telephone service in their home. Also, you can hardly compare these Americans, who likely are at least NEAR a phone due to neighbors, pay phones, etc., to the poor people who live in Chinese and African villages and may not be within MILES of a phone.

    --
    All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
  24. That's silly by Sarcasmooo! · · Score: 2

    The internet doesn't even exist. 'The internet' as we know it is just a program with lots of computerized characters that act the part of 'netizens' for the purposes of interaction and amusement.

  25. Thinking in the box... by univgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful
    A lot of people here seem to say that the net is needed at each home and that most people will never be able to afford that, so they will never have access to the net.


    What is possible and helpful is community shared internet/information access. After all isn't the internet abut information?


    This is what is happening in the developing countries with cyber-cafes. In Bangladesh, because of the poor phone infrastructure, there are people who operate pay-phones, but with CELL phones because the infrastructure to provide land-lines is simply too expensive but setting up the base stations is cheaper. In India Wireless in Local Loop is picking up as a big concept, due to the low cost of deployment. As one Professor in India said, "The developed nations do not need to reduce the costs any further for the basics, 40$ per phone line is fine for them, but we need to use the latest technology, not to increase the features but to reduce the cost." And this needs to be done by the developing countries as no company in the deveoped world will take this on (low profits).


    But till this happens, the developing world will be a part of the digital have-nots, and there will be a digital divide.

    --
    All bow to his Noodliness!! His Noodle Appendage has touched me!
  26. Re:AOL Market Share? by fred911 · · Score: 2, Informative

    "AOL doesn't seem like such a bad choice for dial-up service"

    Till you consider you can't use SLIP, PPP or PPoE to log on. In order to use sockets you need their bloatware installed on your boxen.

    Me... I just say no to that kinda crap.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  27. Wired Infrastructure by Perdo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Take note that untill recently, having the internet meant having a piece of copper strung to your house. Because most countries have not had the massive copper build out that is seen in the united states, getting internet was not possible. that is what makes some of the wireless technologies so interesting. For example, Kuwait has phone lines to only 15% of residences. Every one has a mobile phone though. To a person in kuwait, placing a call means calling a person, not a location. Internet cafes are extremely popular, satisfying demand for an internet that has no infrastructure. Which is what makes 802.11b/a and other wireless methods so interesting. I am guessing that there are as many people in the world, with dollars to spend, that the providers of wireless internet access will call customers, as currently use copper to access the internet. However, untill it is cheaper to set up a wireless internet connection than buy a similar length of copper, acceptance will obviously be poor.

    --

    If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.

  28. Half a Billion People - What's the Draw? by Petersko · · Score: 3, Funny

    1. Pornography

    2. Gambling

    3. Trolling for fights without fear of getting punched

    4. Pornography

    5. Easy chatting and email with friends

    6. Endless time-wasting opportunity

    7. Pornography

    8. Groups for almost any conceivable interest

    9. Pornography

    What's not to like?

  29. Re:Speed it up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
    It will be easier with less people

    Unless you plan to chop those people up and weigh the total, it is fewer people. Knowing the difference might make you more attractive to chicks.

  30. Have to update my spam ad... by ch-chuck · · Score: 3, Funny

    If you're searching for the most cost-effective form of promotion you can find... Your Search Is Over - you've FOUND it - Investment is MINIMAL and Potential return is INCREDIBLE! Blast your ad to over 500 Million pre-opted-in indivdually targeted Internet users who are JUST WAITING to hear about YOUR product or service!

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  31. Culture. by saintlupus · · Score: 2

    There is no culture in the USA besides capitalism

    There is no culture in Africa besides cannibalism.

    And there is no culture in China besides running people over with tanks.

    Hey, looks like broad generalizations _can_ be both false and offensive!

    There's a lot of uniquely American elements to US culture. I'm not saying its a better or worse culture than anyone else has, but it does exist. Open your eyes.

    --saint

  32. Re:Population == pollution by AndroidCat · · Score: 2

    Tish, as bad as AOL users can be, surely the webtv users will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  33. Re:Commercialism and the fears of others by ArsSineArtificio · · Score: 2

    If I was one of these individuals, I would do everything in my power to either destroy or neuter the liberating effects(or as they see it, perverting) of such a worldview.

    You mean like trying to destroy its proponents by flying planes into their buildings?

    Bush's war on terrorism is defending Western civilization, and the Internet is a product and a symbol of Western civilization, no matter who else has ultimately ended up using it.

    --
    All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
  34. *Home* access, not total access by jpatokal · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Many people seem to be missing the important little point that the 498 million figure refers to people who can access the Net at home. There are quite a few people who have Internet access at work or at school but not at home, and even more people who can (and do?) access the Internet at cafes, libraries, etc. Getting exact figures for these is probably impossible, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if the total of all of these was well over a billion.

    Cheers,
    -j.

  35. Re:feel old? by ArsSineArtificio · · Score: 2

    Ive been online for around 8 years now. And now there are many many new people coming online all the time. Many of whom have prolly never heard of usenet/gopher/telnet/IRC etc... makes me feel kinda old, in the online sence. anyone else feel this way?

    I read the first piece of Spam on USENET (the Green Card Lawyers' advertisement), thinking "what is this and why did they crosspost it?"

    I used WAIS. I remember the Gopher server at wustl. Once, just to show a friend I could do it, I went in and browsed the card catalog at the Widener Library. He didn't believe me, figuring that it had to be an offline program or something.

    I thought that Mosaic was a neat trick. I used Yahoo back before they had their own domain name.

    An eternity ago, now.

    And I'm not even particularly old!

    --
    All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
  36. Re:AOL Market Share? by terkozer · · Score: 2, Informative

    As much as AOL sucks, here's one upside that I have yet to find in another ISP. Travel to Germany, they've got a local phone number to call, travel to Argentina, they've got a local number, travel to Iceland, they've got a local number, you get the idea. If you are not travelling all over the place then please please please do not use AOL. If you are travelling, it's worth looking at as a "roaming" isp. Here's the link to their International Access Numbers.