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Microsoft Kicks Playstation2 out of CeBit.
dnaumov writes "According to this article on ZDNET, Microsoft complained to the show organizers, Hannover Messe AG, that Sony was breaching show rules by letting people play on Sony PlayStation 2 game consoles. While Sony has been letting people play their consoles at CeBIT for the past 3 years, that didn't really bother anyone. However, MS seemed to not like the fact and filled a complaint. What makes this even more funny is that Microsoft officials denied that the company had complained to the Messe. but the show organizers confirmed that Richard Roy, vice president, corporate strategy, had complained. This effectively forced PS2 out of the show and Sony started packing their bags on Sunday. Microsoft was also displaying their XBOX console at the show."
So Sony breaks the rules, and get caught doing it. Ok where's the problem? Are we to assume that because Microsoft turned them in, that the rule never existed? Or hey, maybe Microsoft made the rule years before just so they could catch Sony in the act now that they're competators. This is nonsense. Sony broke the rule, they pay the price. The only saving grace would be if Sony wasn't aware of this rule.
I doubt that. Highly.
the article mentioned that sony tried to compromise, but how? what did the various involved parties suggest? i mean, MS has the XboX on display, with employees doing the playing; surely sony could have done the same. what's the exact rule sony was violating?
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
Pardon my ignorance, but can anyone explain the purpose of CeBIT if you can't actually play with the hardware? Particularly if the vendor is happy for you to take it for a test-drive... otherwise you may as well consider it as vapourware.
'sapientia potestas est'
I could have sworn that people were playing the xbox at CeBIT... should have taken a picture. And why would CeBIT care? That's the point of the show, to demo your products! Hell, I should file a complaint that MS had the Compaq ipaqs all on display and people were using them. How is this any different?
hmm... for fun I enjoy launching DDoS attacks against 127.87.42.5
I would hypothesize that MS having Employees demonstrate the consoles instead of having visitors play them made the difference. Employees playing the games is the same as making a presentation.
If that's the case, MS COULD have been in the right. "Well, if people are busy playing games, they're not paying attention to the exhibitors" -- that could be why that rule would be there in the first place.
Talk about bad sportsmanship though. Even if MS had good intentions (ha!) there's no way anybody's going to say 'Go MS!'
BTW, just because I'm playing Devil's Advocate here doesn't mean you have the right to come in, misinterpret me, and then tell me I'm an idiot. I've had enough of that over the last week. I don't support what MS did so don't twist what I said into saying I do.
"Derp de derp."
Hmm.. well we're all quick to shout 'MS sucks!' over this, but this story is seriously lacking in details. There's just enough of a hint that there's a larger story going on here, I'm not willing to play judge.
Why would MS complain about Sony unless they did something to provoke it? MS has employees demonstrating XBOX's, right? What if that was because MS read the rules and decided to bring a bunch of employees down to man the stations, only to find Sony stations unmanned so the public could play. I'd be mad about that. That means MS had to pay more people to come down.
What if Sony tried to complain about MS's booth being too loud, so MS fired a tit-for-tat shot back?
What if people were hovering around the Sony stations simply to play games, and they didn't want to go anywhere else because they couldn't play games? That means that Sony has an unfair advantage to attracting people.
We don't know enough about this story to pass judgement, so please reserve your karma whoring 'I hate MS!' posts for the time when actual facts arrive.
"Derp de derp."
From Story:
This effectively forced PS2 out of the show and Sony started packing their bags on Sunday.
From Article:
On Sunday morning Sony started packing up its 27 PS2s.
I don't know what anyone else reads from this article, but I read Sony packed up the consoles they were letting people play, nothing about leaving the show. Maybe Sony did leave the show, but I doupt that, and the article does not say specifically. I really can't see Cebit making Sony mad by completly kicking them out, they just told them to stop breaking the rules.
iRepairIT - iPhone, Mac, & PC Repair
Citing the the ZDNET article: "On Sunday morning Sony started packing up its 27 PS2s. The show, in Hannover, Germany, officially finishes on Wednesday." This is very misleading if you read it sloppy. Sony did not leave the show. They removed the PS2s, no more no less. The entire Sony booth is 2000 square meters, only 100 square meters where dedicated to the PS2. The rest is still there. This article by German magazine c't explains the situation in much more detail. Use the fish translation if you don't understand German.
Unlike Comdex, CeBit starts out as a serious and sober event. It is well organized. It is very productive. It is run by Germans. It does not have buxom booth bunnies. (OK, not Los Vegas-style booth bunnies and those that are there are few and far between and you can't get your picture with them.)
The only giddy joy and adventure at CeBit beyond the cool tech is the day the local kids come in to get and trade pins, and at night in the on-site beer hall, getting drunk, then challenging some Japaneese company to tug of war and hooting ape calls. Who needs language?
While Microsoft was fully justified in complaining if the sound was loud at the Sony booth, it sure sounds like they are taking on the role of smarmy tattle tale. That in itself is not in the spirit of CeBit.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
But did they "pick up their toys and go home"? If so, how many of their toys?
They packed up their consoles. I imagine they were forced to (see below). I also imagine they left their other products. "Sony Ericsson['s] stand
Note also that Microsoft didn't just snitch; they had some kind of approval/veto power. Microsoft may have had the power to force all the Playstations out of the show.
I look forward to further coverage.
(I found a German article; the Google translation included, "CeBIT nomenclature over contents of the fair in principle neither entertainment electronics nor plays may be pointed. Microsoft presents its play console "Xbox" behind glass." Try searching for "Udo Freialdenhofen," some Sony media relations person.)
And why might Microsoft be extra offended? Maybe because of this (cached link): "Those of you in Germany can see the [Playstation 2] linux kit in action at CEBIT in Hanover this week, from 13-20th March. We're on the Sony stand in hall 2, C02." They didn't just toss a competing game console; they got a bunch of Linux machines thrown out of the show!
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
MS: You're cheat-in'! I'm telling!! I'm telling!
Sony: Tell you what. We'll Rochambeau you for it.
MS: What's Rochambeau?
1- Does anyone have the exact wording of the rule which Sony are supposed to have broken (preferably in English)?
2- Does anyone have any information (i.e. not speculation) as to the purpose of the rule?
3- I would have thought that a large group of people playing PS/2s would have been an easy thing to spot. Why did the CeBIT organisers not notice it for themselves? If they did notice and did nothing then that demonstrates to me that its not a rule that they actualy care about.
4- Are rules like this common? I've been to lots of trade exhibitions in my time (admitedly most were not computer ones) and salesmen are normally keen to let potential customers try out the products (possibly under supervision).
Actually I just Googled the answer to my own question, and as usual, the American Press is as Winston Churchill said, "Vulgar and Without Substance."
The following article in German from Heise.de explains that the reason for ejecting Playstations from the show was that CeBIT is a tradeshow for "Business and Professional" exhibits. You cannot display consumer electronics or games. That is why Microsoft shows the Xbox only behind glass, and Sony showing 27 PS-2 boxes to play with was against the rules.
Yes, Microsoft's whining is pretty sad, but killing the PS-2 display had little to do with hands-on vs. suits showing off.
Sony has plenty of dirty tricks up their collective sleeve, as well.
For example, at this same show (CeBit), they were running a large screen demo of one of their Clie handhelds, showing how it could play fullscreen video, etc. They even had a little camera set up and pointed at a real Clie, giving the indication that what was on the big screen was being taken directly from the screen on the handheld.
Turns out, the big screen image didn't have anything to do with a real Clie screen. It was all faked.
Jenova_Six
The reason they left was so that MS'd look bad. And that's what happened. Slashdot, obviously biased against MS, posts an article saying 'MS kicks Sony out of CeBit', even though that isn't even close to what happened.
Complain about MS's business practices all you want, Sony certainly could have stood a little taller in this case.
Id really like to know what brought this to MS's attention. It's puzzling that MS would have one of it's own doors closed (i.e. letting people play XBOX's...) in order to stop Sony. I haven't ruled out that MS was just being a bastard, but you got to wonder what precipitated the complaint.
"Derp de derp."
According to the BBC: 'A spokeswoman for CeBIT told BBC News Online: "We received complaints from many, many exhibitors about Sony, including from Microsoft."' I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the other articles. I guess it makes it a more interesting story if Microsoft was the main instigator.
n ew _media/newsid_1879000/1879078.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/
David
If I was at the Olympics, and a rule wasn't being followed, you'd damn sure hear me complainig about it.
Rules are rules. If you cheat, and it's in someone else's interests to stop you, especially if they're following said rule, then they have every right to ask that it be enforced.
The reason is simple: It allows companies to display vaporware as 'the next big thing' at these shows. Obviously it bothered Microsoft that Sony's 'next big thing' actually worked, and that they were comfortable enough about their product that they allowed tinkering.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
A few years back, while bleem! was still a company making a Playstation(tm) emulator, Sony attempted to get bleem! thrown out of the E3 exhibition (held in California). This was contrary to a court order that bleem! acquired stating that they were allowed to present.
Unfortunately, my old, senile, brain can not remember the details of this incident (and I would prefer not to have large companies coming after me), but perhaps one of the younger people still in the emulation scene can recall the details.
The argument that someone else raised, that such a rule could exist because "people might be hanging around Sony's booth only to play games, and not go look at the other exhibitors", simply doesn't hold - for the following reasons.
CeBIT is the largest such exhibition in the world, there are more than 8000 exhibitors, and more than 150.000 visitors each day. You don't just "browse" the exhibition, you plan your visits from home.
The ticket is around $120 - you don't waste a day there just for playing a $40 game.
Sony let people play with their software, and so what ? They let me play with Linux on their PS/2 as well. And being an exhibitor there, I've let people play with our software in our booth as well. Just like Sun let me play with their software, IBM with theirs, etc. etc. etc.
Consider the historical fact that anyone who has been stupid enough to 'partner' with Microsoft on some project, ends up being eaten as either part of the main course, or as a dessert dish.
I knew that Sega was doomed when they signed up to run CE on the dreamcast - MS just used them up for development ideas, and then surpise - MS comes out with it's own console.
What 3rd party software developer would be stupid enough to think that by developing titles for the XBox things will be any different.
The current batch of XBox developers are just being used as cheap cannon fodder by General Gates to find out where the minefields are, and to probe the enemy line for weaknesses.
Many XBox developers are going to go under as part of the course, and MS will not bat an eyelid. Those early casualties will be the lucky ones.
Woe unto them who succeed in this market ! For the day will surely cometh where Microsoft decides that there is money to be made in this market.
You will know when this will be happening for the signs shall surely be there .. those that have wisdom will know the signs.
These things shall surely come to pass.
If it is any consolation, Developers who write good code for PS2 / GCN deserve and receive respect. Particularly PS2 developers who have come to terms with parallized code and VU1 asm.
Anyone get the feeling that MS is trying to attract a bunch of $10 per hour VB/Access 'gurus' to the XBox ? Their job (in the above scenario) must surely be to locate the enemy machine gun positions by drawing their fire, and to provide human scaling ramps for the first layers of wire.
Sig:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/new _media/newsid_1879000/1879078.stm
Microsoft's Xbox launched across Europe last week where it will compete with the hugely popular PlayStation 2 console from Sony.
The spokeswoman added: "Both companies were showing their machines but Microsoft followed the rules and did not have any games to play on it, while Sony did. CeBIT is not for playing games."
She said CeBIT asked Sony to switch the games off but instead the company removed all of its consoles from the fair.
But boy, it sure is fun to bash M$...
Please don't allow me to assist in the well-documented transition of Slashdot from a technical site to a political forum, but I can't resist in this situation.
Sony broke the rules. Sony let gamers play the games on the systems they sell during a trade show. Sony gets kicked out of the game. Microsoft broke the rules. Microsoft was found guilty of illegal bundling, hiding api's, and setting monopolistic terms to computer vendors in 94, 99, and 2001. Microsoft gets kicked out of the game.
Sounds fair.
Yes, Sony is a huge corporation that has attempted to leverage its presence (though not dominance) in consumer electronics to sell standards like the memory stick and DVD's. Yes, Sony is known to try and muscle competitors. However, something is inherintly wrong when a competitor can have you kicked out of a trade show because you let people have fun with your toys. I would think the director of the convention would have the power to make an exception on the grounds that the rule is unnecessary in this situation, and give Sony the year to plan a show without user interaction. Furthermore, it is in the show organizer's best financial interest if the customers participating in the show have a good time, and the only thing at a convention more enjoyable than free gaming is free gaming schwag.
The only group who benefits from this action is Microsoft (who, of course, lied about it afterwards to introduce doubt). The only reason Microsoft would act in this way is if they didn't want to compete. Is this sounding familiar?
Up until this point the X-box was starting to sound tempting so long as they could correct durability issues. With this action, Microsoft has reaffirmed once again why it is our moral imperitive to not give money to assholes... they just become more powerful assholes across more markets.
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