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Microsoft Kicks Playstation2 out of CeBit.
dnaumov writes "According to this article on ZDNET, Microsoft complained to the show organizers, Hannover Messe AG, that Sony was breaching show rules by letting people play on Sony PlayStation 2 game consoles. While Sony has been letting people play their consoles at CeBIT for the past 3 years, that didn't really bother anyone. However, MS seemed to not like the fact and filled a complaint. What makes this even more funny is that Microsoft officials denied that the company had complained to the Messe. but the show organizers confirmed that Richard Roy, vice president, corporate strategy, had complained. This effectively forced PS2 out of the show and Sony started packing their bags on Sunday. Microsoft was also displaying their XBOX console at the show."
Hmm....this would be one of the few time Microsoft has ever gained anything by playing by the rules. I find it wildly ironic. Seems like it's one of those rules that everyone ignores until one person wildly breaks it. Wonder if MS will be subtly letting people "experience" XBox at the show under some "other" name. ("No, we aren't letting them test-drive the X-Box, we're letting them 'feel' the controllers. They simply are hooked up at the time.")
KMFMS.
JoeLinux
I've never been to Cebit but, I can't help but wonder what kind of tech show has a rule prohibiting visitors from test driving the technologies on display. It seems quite rediculous to me. I certainly have no desire to visit ant show with such absurd rules.
Frankly, CeBit organizers should have told Richard Roy his company had been found in violation of U.S. antitrust law (a scared shadow of the EU version) and asked to leave with all his exhibitors - wouldn't want a legitimate trade show to lose its reputation because a piratical company happens to be there.
There's a simple solution to bullshit like this - flip Microsoft the bird and spend your and your company's money elsewhere.
So Sony breaks the rules, and get caught doing it. Ok where's the problem? Are we to assume that because Microsoft turned them in, that the rule never existed? Or hey, maybe Microsoft made the rule years before just so they could catch Sony in the act now that they're competators. This is nonsense. Sony broke the rule, they pay the price. The only saving grace would be if Sony wasn't aware of this rule.
I doubt that. Highly.
Microsoft makes it REALLY easy :)
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
the article mentioned that sony tried to compromise, but how? what did the various involved parties suggest? i mean, MS has the XboX on display, with employees doing the playing; surely sony could have done the same. what's the exact rule sony was violating?
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
I read a comment on the page of the article that was insightful and I felt I should share it. The individual who wrote it is clearly not the most well-written guy in the world, but I think you get his point.
The sand-kicking six year olds at it again. And, don't give me any of that "rules are rules" crap, cuz that don't fly when you are talking about the convicted monopolist turned snitch. I can just see the tattle-tail doing trying to imitate the fake teary eyed look of Ballmer during his latest deposition. What do they teach first at the Redmond campus, foot-stomping or lying???
Sure, we do participate in a lot of Microsoft bashing here at Slashdot -- I'll admit that. But for Christ's sake, they deserve it.
Linux -- Because You're Too Good For Those Other Crappy Kernels.
My, I certainly hope they remembered their kickball when storming off to go home.
--saint
Where exactly does this article bash microsoft? It looks like they are (for once) on the right side, and the article does NOT deny that.
:-)
And what does the slashdot crew (not) using Windows have to do with this?
How is this slashdot article not friendly to all geeks? Don't most geeks *hate* MS? Well, most Real Geeks (TM) anyway
Besides, Slashdot does not have money problems. They would have if they had not given the advertisers what they wanted (i.e. bigger ads) - so they had not much choice basically.
And last but not least, I can tell from your post you're probably from the USA - so much for journalistic integrity: if you can trade it for a few bucks, do so anytime!
I'm very glad the Slashdot crew does not show any signs of using such practices. Keep the MS stories coming!
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
Pardon my ignorance, but can anyone explain the purpose of CeBIT if you can't actually play with the hardware? Particularly if the vendor is happy for you to take it for a test-drive... otherwise you may as well consider it as vapourware.
'sapientia potestas est'
So now we are mad at Microsoft for following the rules? (That is, not letting people play games?) I'm just making sure -- sometimes it's confusing to keep up with.
-- Hobbits suck!
Except the fact that it wasn't in Yale but in UK, that the rule wasn't in latin even though it was an ancient one, that they didn't compromise to coke and cake and that the sword wasn't to be carried to exams but everywhere in the campus... you got the story almost 100% right.
Sigged!
I could have sworn that people were playing the xbox at CeBIT... should have taken a picture. And why would CeBIT care? That's the point of the show, to demo your products! Hell, I should file a complaint that MS had the Compaq ipaqs all on display and people were using them. How is this any different?
hmm... for fun I enjoy launching DDoS attacks against 127.87.42.5
Isn't it funny how you conveiently quote the entire first paragraph except for the last sentence?
/. The lame final sentence of the post:"Microsoft was also displaying their XBOX console at the show." just shows the length some people go to in order to make Microsoft bad. Notice that this says "displaying", not "playing".
Here is the entire first paragraph (note the last sentence):"Microsoft complained to the show organizers, Hannover Messe AG, that Sony was breaching show rules by letting people play on Sony PlayStation 2 game consoles. Technically, this was right and the Messe was forced to act on the complaint"
What is news here? There were rules, and Sony broke them. It's as simple as that. Microsoft had every right to complain to the organizers, as did every other vendor. The fact that nobody complained in the previous years has no bearing at all. If I commit a crime, and nobody knows and therefore nobody complains, is it ok to commit a second crime? Nobody complained about my prevoius crime, so it must be ok, right?
If you ask me, I say this entire post should be considered a troll and be removed from
The only reason it's here is that it's a story about Microsoft doing something to protect themselves.
"A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but doesn't have an air force." -William Blum
Actually they were *asked* to leave because a compromise accetable to both parties could not be reached. Which to me means that Sony probably offered to make them display only, but Microsoft would not accept that. Leaving of course no other option besides probably removing the displays all together which would leave them very little purpose in being there or just leaving entirely.
I'm guessing the following options were available:
1) Only allow Sony employees to play the consoles (similar to the way it was being done in the Microsoft booth)
2) Make the consoles display only
3) Remove the consoles from the booth
4) Ask Sony to leave
Three guesses on which solution was the only one Microsoft was willing to accept...
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
Hmm.. well we're all quick to shout 'MS sucks!' over this, but this story is seriously lacking in details. There's just enough of a hint that there's a larger story going on here, I'm not willing to play judge.
Why would MS complain about Sony unless they did something to provoke it? MS has employees demonstrating XBOX's, right? What if that was because MS read the rules and decided to bring a bunch of employees down to man the stations, only to find Sony stations unmanned so the public could play. I'd be mad about that. That means MS had to pay more people to come down.
What if Sony tried to complain about MS's booth being too loud, so MS fired a tit-for-tat shot back?
What if people were hovering around the Sony stations simply to play games, and they didn't want to go anywhere else because they couldn't play games? That means that Sony has an unfair advantage to attracting people.
We don't know enough about this story to pass judgement, so please reserve your karma whoring 'I hate MS!' posts for the time when actual facts arrive.
"Derp de derp."
And I have proof!
Message from SONY: "See ya at Tokyo game show, Microsoft ;-)"
;-) At least they can make their way in the States. Did you say uncompetitive practices again? No...
BTW, just came back from Japan last week. The XBox is doing very poorly over there. People are complaining about compat and quality issues over the system itself (DVD filing and over heating, noise, etc...) and the quality of the games in general. The video game press in Japan doesn't say good things neither about XBox. All you hear about is Sony new network and Game Cube awesome new titles.
Poor M$
PPA, the girl next door.
-- I feel better now. Thanks for asking.
From Story:
This effectively forced PS2 out of the show and Sony started packing their bags on Sunday.
From Article:
On Sunday morning Sony started packing up its 27 PS2s.
I don't know what anyone else reads from this article, but I read Sony packed up the consoles they were letting people play, nothing about leaving the show. Maybe Sony did leave the show, but I doupt that, and the article does not say specifically. I really can't see Cebit making Sony mad by completly kicking them out, they just told them to stop breaking the rules.
iRepairIT - iPhone, Mac, & PC Repair
Actually, they did try to compromise by offering to have only their employees operate the PS2's. The compromise was declined, and they were ejected.
And yes, it was a MS executive who asked that the rule be enforced.
Microsoft doesn't break the rules, ever, eh? It just breaks laws.
Petty monopolists.
Citing the the ZDNET article: "On Sunday morning Sony started packing up its 27 PS2s. The show, in Hannover, Germany, officially finishes on Wednesday." This is very misleading if you read it sloppy. Sony did not leave the show. They removed the PS2s, no more no less. The entire Sony booth is 2000 square meters, only 100 square meters where dedicated to the PS2. The rest is still there. This article by German magazine c't explains the situation in much more detail. Use the fish translation if you don't understand German.
-J
Though I agree about it being it being more powerful than PS2, the GC is harder to measure. The developer interviews i've read basically said that the GC is better at some things, and the XBOX is better at other things. At this point, it's the artists behind the systems that will provide better graphics.
Getting back on topic, this little episode has no bearing on my playing games on an XBOX or on Sony. Neither MS nor Sony make games for their systems that I want to buy. They simply provide the systems. Now if a game company threw a temper tantrum and left because they were caught breaking the rules, then I'd be cautious about buying games from them.
"Derp de derp."
Actually, according to the story, Sony offered to only permit its own employees to operate the PS2's.
"Other parties" wouldn't agree to the compromise, and we can all guess who that "parties" was.
Nasty little company. I've heard others opine that MS's position in the game machine arena is not that of a monopolist; this behavior is indicative of how they "compete" in an open marketplace, in this case a literal one.
Now, I've been watching MS since '81, and I'm well versed in their utter lack of business ethics. Others younger than I have more tolerance of their behavior, lacking my perspective.
I'd like those yunguns to watch MS carefully over the next few years, and see how Bill & Company operate when they want to take over a market segment. It will be educational to people who think monopolists are really cool.
Unlike Comdex, CeBit starts out as a serious and sober event. It is well organized. It is very productive. It is run by Germans. It does not have buxom booth bunnies. (OK, not Los Vegas-style booth bunnies and those that are there are few and far between and you can't get your picture with them.)
The only giddy joy and adventure at CeBit beyond the cool tech is the day the local kids come in to get and trade pins, and at night in the on-site beer hall, getting drunk, then challenging some Japaneese company to tug of war and hooting ape calls. Who needs language?
While Microsoft was fully justified in complaining if the sound was loud at the Sony booth, it sure sounds like they are taking on the role of smarmy tattle tale. That in itself is not in the spirit of CeBit.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
Looks like there was a GameCube on show available for play as well. I believe it was at ATI's stand.
But did they "pick up their toys and go home"? If so, how many of their toys?
They packed up their consoles. I imagine they were forced to (see below). I also imagine they left their other products. "Sony Ericsson['s] stand
Note also that Microsoft didn't just snitch; they had some kind of approval/veto power. Microsoft may have had the power to force all the Playstations out of the show.
I look forward to further coverage.
(I found a German article; the Google translation included, "CeBIT nomenclature over contents of the fair in principle neither entertainment electronics nor plays may be pointed. Microsoft presents its play console "Xbox" behind glass." Try searching for "Udo Freialdenhofen," some Sony media relations person.)
And why might Microsoft be extra offended? Maybe because of this (cached link): "Those of you in Germany can see the [Playstation 2] linux kit in action at CEBIT in Hanover this week, from 13-20th March. We're on the Sony stand in hall 2, C02." They didn't just toss a competing game console; they got a bunch of Linux machines thrown out of the show!
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
From the poster of the article: What makes this even more funny is that Microsoft officials denied that the company had complained to the Messe. but the show organizers confirmed that Richard Roy, vice president, corporate strategy, had complained.
Now you can calm down.
Sigged!
Big bully Microsoft knocks Sony out of the playground.
Sony's going to get the sympathy vote out of this. And portrayed as a victim in the press.
Dumb move Microsoft.
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
Rules like, say, not faking video evidence for a court trial?
Which they got away with, ultimately.
Microsoft was not able to demo the XBOX, much to the disappointment of people who wanted to play with it because of the CeBit rules. There's no reason why they should be the only ones having to play by them.
Mmmm.. Donuts
MS: You're cheat-in'! I'm telling!! I'm telling!
Sony: Tell you what. We'll Rochambeau you for it.
MS: What's Rochambeau?
1- Does anyone have the exact wording of the rule which Sony are supposed to have broken (preferably in English)?
2- Does anyone have any information (i.e. not speculation) as to the purpose of the rule?
3- I would have thought that a large group of people playing PS/2s would have been an easy thing to spot. Why did the CeBIT organisers not notice it for themselves? If they did notice and did nothing then that demonstrates to me that its not a rule that they actualy care about.
4- Are rules like this common? I've been to lots of trade exhibitions in my time (admitedly most were not computer ones) and salesmen are normally keen to let potential customers try out the products (possibly under supervision).
Which is followed up (in the article) by the note that MS was using its employees to do live demos of the X-Box. Probably they did some sort of "But we're on a podium, whereas Sony is on the floor". I've seen pictures of Sony's PS2 display - it's a row of them right along the side of the Sony pavilion. It may very well have been that Sony couldn't reconfigure the entire pavilion to the "Other party's" satisfaction.
And again, Sony didn't leave (at least not according to the article) - they just were forced to remove the PS2s.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
The link to the babelfish translation was broken for me. However this link works fine.
MOD THE CHILD UP!
Actually I just Googled the answer to my own question, and as usual, the American Press is as Winston Churchill said, "Vulgar and Without Substance."
The following article in German from Heise.de explains that the reason for ejecting Playstations from the show was that CeBIT is a tradeshow for "Business and Professional" exhibits. You cannot display consumer electronics or games. That is why Microsoft shows the Xbox only behind glass, and Sony showing 27 PS-2 boxes to play with was against the rules.
Yes, Microsoft's whining is pretty sad, but killing the PS-2 display had little to do with hands-on vs. suits showing off.
"Actually, according to the story, Sony offered to only permit its own employees to operate the PS2's"
w _media/newsid_1879000/1879078.stm
That statement (or anything like it) is nowhere in the linked article.
Also Microsoft was not the only company to complain.
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/ne
"A spokeswoman for CeBIT told BBC News Online: "We received complaints from many, many exhibitors about Sony, including from Microsoft."
[snip]
The spokeswoman added: "Both companies were showing their machines but Microsoft followed the rules and did not have any games to play on it, while Sony did. CeBIT is not for playing games."
She said CeBIT asked Sony to switch the games off but instead the company removed all of its consoles from the fair.
"It could be they were angry," she added.
That Microsoft had removed. Seems pretty crappy. Since it is marketed as a game console they said it has to be removed.
Get a free ipod.
(Note: I am just speculating here, but it looks plausible.)
Kids: Many of the visitors at CeBit are parents with kids, and kids need some amusement. If these parents want to have a little time for themselves (and they do, believe me, just because you are a dad or mom, that doesn't completely kill the nerd in you) what better than let them play on a gameconsole or some such gadget.
Even if it's not a console, kids need a little interaction, forcing them to a "watch only, no touching" policy frustrates the heck out of them, and as a consequence, their parents.
So, the non-reinforcement of this rule might just have been a little expression of social skills, like what you have in many big companies. You don't always enforce a rule, except if you want to come off like a total jackass and be treated like one by your colleagues.
Sigged!
Sony has plenty of dirty tricks up their collective sleeve, as well.
For example, at this same show (CeBit), they were running a large screen demo of one of their Clie handhelds, showing how it could play fullscreen video, etc. They even had a little camera set up and pointed at a real Clie, giving the indication that what was on the big screen was being taken directly from the screen on the handheld.
Turns out, the big screen image didn't have anything to do with a real Clie screen. It was all faked.
Jenova_Six
The reason they left was so that MS'd look bad. And that's what happened. Slashdot, obviously biased against MS, posts an article saying 'MS kicks Sony out of CeBit', even though that isn't even close to what happened.
Complain about MS's business practices all you want, Sony certainly could have stood a little taller in this case.
Id really like to know what brought this to MS's attention. It's puzzling that MS would have one of it's own doors closed (i.e. letting people play XBOX's...) in order to stop Sony. I haven't ruled out that MS was just being a bastard, but you got to wonder what precipitated the complaint.
"Derp de derp."
According to the BBC: 'A spokeswoman for CeBIT told BBC News Online: "We received complaints from many, many exhibitors about Sony, including from Microsoft."' I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the other articles. I guess it makes it a more interesting story if Microsoft was the main instigator.
n ew _media/newsid_1879000/1879078.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/
David
If I was at the Olympics, and a rule wasn't being followed, you'd damn sure hear me complainig about it.
Rules are rules. If you cheat, and it's in someone else's interests to stop you, especially if they're following said rule, then they have every right to ask that it be enforced.
Sony: Tell you what. We'll Rochambeau you for it.
Nah, they probably would have offered to settle with the ancient Japanese contest Jan-Ken-Pon...
Cheers,
Jim
-- My Weblog.
Would would want guys going to Sony's booth and beating up people in a game that's based on you? I don't think so.
A few years back, while bleem! was still a company making a Playstation(tm) emulator, Sony attempted to get bleem! thrown out of the E3 exhibition (held in California). This was contrary to a court order that bleem! acquired stating that they were allowed to present.
Unfortunately, my old, senile, brain can not remember the details of this incident (and I would prefer not to have large companies coming after me), but perhaps one of the younger people still in the emulation scene can recall the details.
FWIW, the Microsoft (softimage) booth at SIGGRAPH had their power cut once because they violated sound level restrictions. Probably because a competitor complained...
I hear that word a lot lately, bias.
/.ers have opinions of Microsoft based on years of experience, and simple knowledge of recent court cases.
Well, Microsoft is a monopoly, convicted of market manipulation, product tying, yadda yadda.
As with most "bias",
Water is wet, Fox News is far right-wing, trees are made of wood, and Microsoft is a predatory monopolist. To believe so, and to regard Microsoft-related stories with a grain of anti-MS feeling, is only sanity.
To give MS the benefit of the doubt is situations such as this is about as likely as keeping an open mind about the softness of a concrete wall as you crash your car into it. You know concrete walls, and they are rarely soft as a sponge.
Not bias, which to my mind is baseless slant, but just common sense.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"I find it interesting that so many people here are upset that a company was forced to follow the rules. "
Sony was informed it was breaking a rule, and offered to stop. Microsoft decided that wasn't good enough, so Sony threw up their hands and walked out.
Interesting logic.
Sony let people play with Playstations.
Microsoft screams murder, demands their absence. Sony complies.
People say them's the rules.
People point out that the company who demanded that the rule be followed dominates the industry because it broke every rule it could get away with -- and never offered to stop.
People say so only MS is supposed to follow the rules? This does not excuse Sony from breaking the rules by letting people play games!
Um once again, pointing out the irony of the IT world's biggest criminal beeotching about rules...
There is a difference between rules and morals. Sony broke a (silly)rule, a rule no one probably even knew about, but Microsoft has no morals, so it has no problem with its own hypocrisy.
Which is worse? Sony letting people play games, or Microsoft using the rules to eliminate its competitor from the free market floor?
Microsoft wants its competition to follow rules. It recognizes none for itself.
Notice the impact, symbolically, on the market at the show? The fun Playstation booth was shuttered, with Microsoft tut-tutting. Rules were followed, backstabbing or no.
BUT: the losers were the people who could no longer play the games and have fun. The only winner was Microsoft.
Just like real life.
...Unless, of course, they realized that this situation would be to their advantage - It might cover, say, a tendancy for the Xbox to break down, or maybe some complaints about their controllers? I mean, it's kind of hard to rig things when you give the people the controllers, isen't it? - And, of course, I'm sure that MS wasen't demoing buggy prerelease games, or anything else to try and make it look like the PS2 isen't stomping all over the Xbox in the 'Total games released' catagory, and they COULD have just handed the controllers over to the audience like Sony was doing... But it was against show policy! Sure! Yeah.
The argument that someone else raised, that such a rule could exist because "people might be hanging around Sony's booth only to play games, and not go look at the other exhibitors", simply doesn't hold - for the following reasons.
CeBIT is the largest such exhibition in the world, there are more than 8000 exhibitors, and more than 150.000 visitors each day. You don't just "browse" the exhibition, you plan your visits from home.
The ticket is around $120 - you don't waste a day there just for playing a $40 game.
Sony let people play with their software, and so what ? They let me play with Linux on their PS/2 as well. And being an exhibitor there, I've let people play with our software in our booth as well. Just like Sun let me play with their software, IBM with theirs, etc. etc. etc.
Rather than leave, they could have found someone there wanting to get paid a little to play the games...
Perhaps a better statement was made by packing up the consoles though it would have been fun to keep them there with "employees" playing them.
Blogging because I can...
Consider the historical fact that anyone who has been stupid enough to 'partner' with Microsoft on some project, ends up being eaten as either part of the main course, or as a dessert dish.
I knew that Sega was doomed when they signed up to run CE on the dreamcast - MS just used them up for development ideas, and then surpise - MS comes out with it's own console.
What 3rd party software developer would be stupid enough to think that by developing titles for the XBox things will be any different.
The current batch of XBox developers are just being used as cheap cannon fodder by General Gates to find out where the minefields are, and to probe the enemy line for weaknesses.
Many XBox developers are going to go under as part of the course, and MS will not bat an eyelid. Those early casualties will be the lucky ones.
Woe unto them who succeed in this market ! For the day will surely cometh where Microsoft decides that there is money to be made in this market.
You will know when this will be happening for the signs shall surely be there .. those that have wisdom will know the signs.
These things shall surely come to pass.
If it is any consolation, Developers who write good code for PS2 / GCN deserve and receive respect. Particularly PS2 developers who have come to terms with parallized code and VU1 asm.
Anyone get the feeling that MS is trying to attract a bunch of $10 per hour VB/Access 'gurus' to the XBox ? Their job (in the above scenario) must surely be to locate the enemy machine gun positions by drawing their fire, and to provide human scaling ramps for the first layers of wire.
Sig:
1 million? HAH! PSX2 has already sold over 20 million and is still going strong. 1 million in sales is a drop in the bucket compared to what Sony generates. Also Sony is NOT taking a loss on their consoles, they are profiting around $120 per console, plus their profit from games licensing etc... While Microsoft IS losing money on each console and hoping to make it up in games and suck up marketshare. Sony has already made their money back plus a big chunk of profit and will probably drop the PSX2 price down at christmas to undercut all of the competitors. I gaurantee that MSFT won't make another generation of consoles after Sony beats the shit out of them in the market this year and next.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
"MS does make games for the Xbox. Sony makes games for the PS2. If you like any of the games they make this does have bearing." -- Technically I said games I'd buy....
I agree that the XBOX sounds better at first, but not all the options are gettin weighed.
HDTV: GameCube supports progressive scan, but it cannot hit the higher resolutions that XBOX can. *But* if you take the XBOX to a higher resolution, it means a higher fill rate is needed. The performance cost may be on the substantial side. Ultimately the games matter, the resolution doesn't.
DD 5.1: I'm pretty sure the GC and PS2 support DD 5.1 or somethig like it. Unfortunately I'm not really familiar with it so I'm not going to push too hard on this. I do know that all 3 systems have good audio support.
XBOX HD: I'm not sure if this is a blessing or a curse. Although I agree it's great you don't need a memorycard out of the box, you are still paying $100 extra for this system. The problem is that the hard-drive is something extra to go wrong with the XBOX at this point. I agree, though, that this feature could make the XBOX the machine to own down the road, but today it's a glorified memory card.
Ethernet: I think you bring up a good point here. In some respects, I wish the GC did have a built in ethernet port. Here's the thing though, if a game comes out for the GC where ethernet is a must have, they'll almost certainly package it with the game like they did the rumble pack and memory exansion. This is no guarantee, but if Nintendo wants to do it, they will. They've proven that. Right now, support for the XBOX ethernet isn't that broad yet.
RAM: This may be a bit of a touchy issue. RAM doesn't automatically make a game better, but it makes the programmer's lives easier. As I said before, the graphics of the system are more heavily weighed by the artists than the hardware. It's my understanding that GC's RAM is a lot faster, so the difference may not be as big as it seems. I'm not a developer so I really cannot offer much insight there.
In short, $100 buys you more machine with the XBOX, I agree with you there. But the difference isn't that dramatic. At this point, it's the games that will determine the winner. XBOX has certainly looked more interesting lately than it has at launch. Maybe in a year I'll buy one. That depends on it having games I want to play, though. So far, the GC wins with me right now.
"Derp de derp."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/new _media/newsid_1879000/1879078.stm
Microsoft's Xbox launched across Europe last week where it will compete with the hugely popular PlayStation 2 console from Sony.
The spokeswoman added: "Both companies were showing their machines but Microsoft followed the rules and did not have any games to play on it, while Sony did. CeBIT is not for playing games."
She said CeBIT asked Sony to switch the games off but instead the company removed all of its consoles from the fair.
But boy, it sure is fun to bash M$...
The PROBLEM is Microsofts MOTIVES.
Monopolies ARE NOT ILLEGAL but ILLEGALY ESTABLISHING a Monopoly IS.
Motive intent and methods.
Now Microsoft faking evidence for something even though they could REALLY go ahead and DO the bit of extra work to create the REAL evidence is IN ITSELF evidence of the overall mindset that exists within the company
Look at the parrell.
Easier to CHEAT to make your OS popular then to do the extra WORK neccisary to MAKE it popular by making it GOOD.
(yah yah yah it is FINALY there, more or less. This is ignoring the fact that all of the features of WinXP could fit in a space 1/4th that which they take up now if it had been written properly from the get go)
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
It is against CeBit rules to provide games. Microsoft was not the only exhibitor to complain about Sony. As far as I know, the trade show organizers asked Sony to switch off the games, but Sony decided to take away the PS2's alltogether. Presumably, Sony was pissed that they were forced to stop letting people play. To my knowledge, no-one asked Sony to remove the playstations.
You do have to admit that this is pretty good PR for Sony and pretty bad PR for Microsoft.
Please don't allow me to assist in the well-documented transition of Slashdot from a technical site to a political forum, but I can't resist in this situation.
Sony broke the rules. Sony let gamers play the games on the systems they sell during a trade show. Sony gets kicked out of the game. Microsoft broke the rules. Microsoft was found guilty of illegal bundling, hiding api's, and setting monopolistic terms to computer vendors in 94, 99, and 2001. Microsoft gets kicked out of the game.
Sounds fair.
Yes, Sony is a huge corporation that has attempted to leverage its presence (though not dominance) in consumer electronics to sell standards like the memory stick and DVD's. Yes, Sony is known to try and muscle competitors. However, something is inherintly wrong when a competitor can have you kicked out of a trade show because you let people have fun with your toys. I would think the director of the convention would have the power to make an exception on the grounds that the rule is unnecessary in this situation, and give Sony the year to plan a show without user interaction. Furthermore, it is in the show organizer's best financial interest if the customers participating in the show have a good time, and the only thing at a convention more enjoyable than free gaming is free gaming schwag.
The only group who benefits from this action is Microsoft (who, of course, lied about it afterwards to introduce doubt). The only reason Microsoft would act in this way is if they didn't want to compete. Is this sounding familiar?
Up until this point the X-box was starting to sound tempting so long as they could correct durability issues. With this action, Microsoft has reaffirmed once again why it is our moral imperitive to not give money to assholes... they just become more powerful assholes across more markets.
The ______ Agenda
I don't get it. I played with a LOT of toys at CeBIT. The place is full of them.
Hmmm it looks like most of the people posting here have never seen a generation of consoles being released and the fierce competition that goes on between them. This sort of stuff used to always happen, with Sony, Sega and Nintendo. It's called competition people, and it's healthy. Compainies are allowed to do it, and yet just because it is Microsoft, you bash them. Of course Microsoft is going to be compeditive - that's how they sell consoles. Sega, Nintendo and Sony have all done it in the past when going head to head, and yet after Microsoft does it, again more bashing. MICROSOFT WASN'T THE ONLY ONE WHO COMPLAINED - according to the BBC report many complained, which is conviniently left out of the Slashdot Article, typical from a bunch of losers who try to make whatever they're using better by bashing other forms.
Sony broke the rules
Many stalls complained (INCLUDING MICROSOFT)
Sony was forced to take down the consoles because they were BREAKING THE RULES, and instead of maintaining a normal stall, they went off in a fit of anger.
And yet all the Slashdot clowns go on about how Microsoft did it and Microsoft were wrong and this is the only way for microsoft to get a "manopoly" - interesting word isnt it? It really gets thrown around especially with articles concerning Microsoft, ever since the trial. I bet half of the adolescent 14 year old losers only found out what that word meant after the trial and suddenly stopped believing that is was synonomous with the board game.
Sony broke the rules, got punished.
If you don't think this was right and believe that Sony was being victimised by Microsoft, then go and have a cry to your other MS-hating geeks at school who are too poor to actually pay for software for their old computer that they scored when their neighbours had a garbage pile out the front of their houses and stop whining because you chose the console that is losing and run by a gay company.
Missing the point, Microsoft was caught out as liars.
"What makes this even more funny is that Microsoft officials denied that the company had complained to the Messe. but the show organizers confirmed that Richard Roy, vice president, corporate strategy, had complained."
And Game Cube is cheaper, has great hardware, great games, and is more oriented towards a great gaming experience rather than being a technological showcase. And do you need what's probably a third DVD player in your house? I've got the other stuff, I want a pure gamer's machine -- the Game Cube.
The rules are simple, Microsoft is a monopoply protected by the stongest military in the world. No foreign country will question anything any American monopoly says or does these days as long as we have a court appointed administration preparing for a nuclear attack and advertising a growing "hit list".
"Rules" suddenly being enforced after a couple of years of "Past Practice" (being accepted) is only a way to benefit certain individuals, in this case Microsoft. If these rules were going to be enforced this year, they should have made special note of it before the show, rather than last minute decisions.
Sony did the right thing, they took the high road, "past practice" of being accepted in other shows gives them the right to expect it to be accepted in this show.
Microsoft was worried about something else, not protecting the rules. Perhaps Microsoft was more worried about the exciting demos of Linux running on the PS2. Sony had linux running many demos to show the power of the PS2 with linux.
>>>please remove "nospam" from email address
About a month and a half ago i read in the swedish magazine (Computer Sweden) about microsoft using similar tactics when handling a release party (it must have been about Windows XP or .NET) in the fashionable Berns Salonger in the central of Stockholm.
The funny part is that swedish IBM rented the more hip anexe club in the park in fron of Berns and put up a veritable Unix/IBM/Linux/Geek-party; huge signs and all.
The swedish mocrosoft representatives did not like this at all and called upon the owners of Berns to muscle IBM out of the place - forcing them to remove all flashing logos and stuff.
Too bad since the IMB party seem to have been the more fun - at least acording to the reporter.
/largo
Except the fact that it wasn't in Yale but in UK, that the rule wasn't in latin even though it was an ancient one.
Wouldn't be surprised it there are versions of this which refer to US universities. Most urban legands get a lot of "porting".
You make assumptions. It was Linux that was being displayed on 27 playstation 2. They had it thrown out on the grounds that the playstation is sold as a gaming console, not that it was being used as one. They were showing programs like Abiword.
Feel dumb yet?
Get a free ipod.
Exactly. How dare they not follow the rules! This isn't about game consoles and allowing the customers to enjoy the product. It is about us telling them if they are allowed to enjoy it. And Sony, with all their hundreds of working games. Bah. MS just needs one game, and everyone will love it. Why go to all that trouble to give the customer a choice? Sony just doesn't make any sense, as a business. I bet their little PlayStation will fail miserably. And speaking of failures, I bet that Nintendo company will be out of the game business soon too. And this internet thing is just a fad. DAMMIT! Listen to us, we know what you want! Why won't anyone listen to us anymore??? Do you know who we are?! We're MICROSOFT !!!!
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
***censored***
All very good points. :)
Im curious about Max Payne for the GC, though. The hardware is far better on GC (and lots more RAM )than the PS2. I don't understand how they could port to PS2 and not the GC... Do you have a source of info on that? *Puzzled*
Considering the texture compression that GC has, plus the added RAM, what about the GC made it a problem?
On the PS2, they have to halve the verticle resolution just to have workable RAM to do stuff with...
"Derp de derp."
"Sony präsentiert sich jetzt in der Opferrolle und stellt uns als die Bösen hin. Aber die Nomenklatur der CeBIT ist eindeutig", konterte Microsoft-Sprecher Frank Mihm.
... and some Microsoft person complained, that Sony is now making Microsoft look bad with this move and claims that it's just the (CeBit) rules. He goes on to say that 27 PS/2 where a little much for just demonstrating the Hardware, and stated that MS would've liked a bigger stand for their Xbox too.
Only it was Microsoft who asked for enforcing the rules after noone cared for three years. It's very obvious, that Microsoft wants to run the consoles-Show alone with their Xbox. Also Microsoft was nice enough to give some Xboxes to others running a stand on CeBit, where people can play. So Microsoft is bending the rules as well.
Also what did they expect? Did they think Sony would quietly pack and put up some advertisement for the Xbox instead? They just showed Microsoft for the spoilsports and underhanded schemers they are, and if that means bad publicity for Microsoft that's well deserved.
Aparently the organizers of CeBit aren't too happy with all this and think about changing the Rules. Microsoft must really have put some heavy pressure behind their move, or the CeBit organizers would just have declared the rule obsolete.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
You're right. Believing what the media says, no matter how little the source knows, oversimplifying, and not thinking about it all makes it a lot easier to believe that MS was just being evil.
By the way, you contradicted yourself. If that's such a great place to market the PS2, then just taking them away sounds foolish. Even a PS2 attract mode is better than no machine at all. "Well, the XBOX is here, where's Sony's PS2? I dunno, guess Sony doesn't think that highly of it." Sony was just trying to make MS look bad. What a bunch of babies.
"Derp de derp."
Hmm that's odd. Nintendo's site says that the GC has 40 megs of 'System ram'. I think the PS2 is fairly close to that, but their VRAM was only 4 megs so that really crippled the machine. On top of that, the GC has S3C Texture Compression that provides 6:1 compression, all in hardware. The PS2 lacks texture compression.
:)
I have no doubt they canned Max Payne on the GCN, but it's startling to hear that it was a system limitation the PS2 didn't have. Maybe he was ill-informed? I dunno. Heh.
Interesting stuff, though. You educated me, thank you.
"Derp de derp."
Here's something interesting:
"24 MB MoSys 1T-SRAM, Approximately 10ns Sustainable Latency
A-Memory
16MB (81MHz DRAM)"
From Nintendo's site... I wonder how that compares to PS2's RAM. Isn't it like 32 main and 4 vram or something like that?
"Derp de derp."
"Now that I understand the memory in the GC a little better I can see how a game would be a bit dificult to fit on the GC, especially a port"
:) "
:)
Don't forget that the GC has the 6:1 texture compression... sounds to me like they could have easily done it if they got it on PS2, but I will definiitely check out those links and absorb some more info.
"Thanks for the fun conversation. Its amazing what you can still learn even when you think you know a lot about a subject
I feel the same way. Cheers friend.
"Derp de derp."
I basically agree. I don't have any more comments to make really, but I thought I'd at least let you know that. :)
"Derp de derp."
I agree with your comment about 1/3 royalties, I would like to see all the great games for PS2 realeased for Xbox, too and vise-versa. Project Gotham Racing is a great game, rivaling Grand Turismo for PS2. Personally the thing that sold me on the Xbox was the built-in NIC and the HDD. I'm pleased with it, although I did strongly consider getting a PS2 in addition to the Xbox.
"Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"