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Utah, the New Red Planet
tsornin writes "The Philadelphia Inquirer reports in this article that Mars Society crews have chosen Wayne County, Utah as an effective simulant for the Red Planet. Although Mars exploration is hardly a high priority on any government's list at the moment, Robert Zubrin and other Mars Society members hope that through their research in Wayne County and in the even more remote northern Canadian location, they can show world governments that a mission to Mars is viable."
Latest news:
The Utah Global Surveyor has detected alcohol in the state. However, it's locked up below the surface in ice and little umbrellas. It does bode well for future explorers, though.
But seriously, folks... if you haven't read Zubrin's The Case For Mars, do so. You'll be on the streets demanding Mars missions within minutes of finishing it.
Wayne County, only slightly more hospitable than the surface of Mars
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
I found a book in my local library's used book sale room from 1988 titled The Race to Mars (I don't remember the authoring organization and sadly, the book is downstairs and I am far too lazy to get it at this point in the morning).
It talks about the progresss made, mostly Soviet, up to the date of publication, with lots of cool diagrams and photos.
What bugs me the most is the introduction, with phrases to the effect of "the Soviets intend to land a man on Mars by the end of the century" and "during the nineties, the Soviets will map and survey mars extensively in preparation for a manned mission."
And still nobody's there. But I guess it's okay, cause we have Utah....
Karma: T-rexcellent.
The Martian atmosphere, Zubrin says, is 95 percent carbon dioxide. By combining that with a relatively small amount of hydrogen brought from Earth, the plant would be churning out an ample supply of methane, CH4, and water, H20. The methane would serve as a propellant to get the ERV and the astronauts back home.
Methane as propellant, uh hu. I'd like to know where the hell Zubrin wants to get the oxygen to burn the methane.
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4203/ ch14-3.htm
Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org)
So when we go to mars we become Martians???
No.
When you go to England, you do not suddenly become British. If you are born in Britain, or live there for some time and obtain resident status - then you are British.
Presumably, the same would apply for Mars. However, this would suggest some form of Martian Government/Organisation. Presumably, this would be a form of colloboration or partnership between all interested parties.
Therefore, if you were born on Mars, you could call yourself an "American Martian" or "Chinese Martian", depending on your originating country in the Martian Union. In much the same way that a German could call themselves a German European.
Frankly, as an honorary Martian I find this offensive.
Is NASA trying to say that Mars can be compared to a dust bowl inhabited by stray dogs, unintelligent rednecks, Mormons and inbreeders?
I request that NASA moves this experiment to a place devoid of culture, such as Australia or Germany.
mogorific carpentry experiments
The goal of the Mars society is not to get a government handout. While they would be happy if a government decided that mars was a viable destination and began funding it, its not nescisary. If no government steps up, the mars society will get there eventually on donations and the hard work of its members. It may take a hundred years that way, but they will still get there.
There would be areas of Antarctica that would be more like Mars than Utah with a constant hostile environment due to the extreme cold. You would only need a place not constantly covered in ice. Of course the abundantly rich oxygen and no radiation are other problems in simulating Mars here on Earth. Perhaps the best way to simulate Mars with be through some bio dome like structure with virtual reality.
The other big question of course is "Why". Why do this at all? Do people really think simulating and then visiting Mars is a possible step in permanent habitation? Our only chance of survival in THIS solar system is here on earth. And any planets revolving around other stars are too far away for us, right now. It's a disservice to get everyones hopes up for living on Mars.
Believe in things of which no person has ever learned
The best 'Case for Mars', IMO, is that it's a (hardly effective) motivator to get us off cradle Earth to secure our survival - people are just USED to living on planets and don't bother thinking outside the gravity well (box).
What we should be striving for is using the raw material in the asteroid belt to build large (rotating) space habitats which are much much much more efficient than the waste of space/material below your feet on Mars.
And hey, one day we'll probably disassemble Mars for its matter too -- we'll save Earth for last. :)
--
Power to the Peaceful
Actually, the Mars Society is also sponsoring a seperate study called Translife that will involve putting mice in orbit, then spinning up their craft to simulate a 1/3 g environment and see what (if any) effects prolonged low-gravity exposure will have on small furry mammals. A later step will involve a larger orbit and more direct exposure to the sort of radiation levels that Mars-bound astronauts will encounter. The research stations (the first up in the Canadian Arctic, the second in Utah, with Europe and Australia in the works) are just intended to simulate the actual operational side of Mars exploration...
"I'm a scientist! I don't think, I observe!" - Dr. Clayton Forrester
As soon as your start proudly identifying yourself with some smaller 'special' group -- be it national, religious, sexual, whatever -- the stage for conflict is set, especially when you make the group-think the focal point of your life.
--
Power to the Peaceful
hmm. Maybe GRACE found a hole in earth's gravity field in Utah. Think it may have something to do with the high density of Mormon's?
I always knew those Utiahns are green! They're just hiding in a human skin! Hmmz, and I thought Roswell was the place to be.
Spending six months to a year or more in isloation, especially in a very small room no bigger than, and maybe smaller that a college dorm room, with only the food and entertainment you brought with you, can be very stressful.
Heck, for the nearest current equivalent look at antarctica, where they get snowed in for the winter, and thay have much larger facilities. While now they have email, etc, they are still pretty isolated, and start to get a little wacky after just the few months of social isolation. The culture starts to evolve and drift based on the unique events on the base.
It is sort of like a bunch of geeks working at a big company. The geeks form their own culture, and are somwhat isolatedfrom the main body of people, even when bumbing into a ton of people in the hall way. Who are the aliens there? the geeks or the working stiffs?
heck, you even see this in religion, those isolated communities off in the desert, etc.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Fry: Very impressive. Back in the 20th Century we had no idea there was a university on Mars.
... trees ... hemp ... soon the whole planet was terra-formed!
Prof.: Well, in those days Mars was just a dreary, uninhabitable wasteland, much like Utah. But unlike Utah it was eventually made livable when the University was founded in 2636.
Leela: They planted traditional college foliage. Ivy
Fry: Does that mean it's safe to breathe the air?
Prof.: Of course!
You can't handle the truth.
For more information about The Mars Society's Mars Desert Research Station, I suggest you have a look at the MDRS Website.
I was watching a 2 hour Discovery special on the Mars Society Canadian habitat project last night, and I couldn't decide if these guys are visionaries or crackpots.
One some levels, the organisation was impressive, with tons of construction material being airdropped onto an island. The last drop shed it's 'chute and wrecked the construction crane and some other material. Brought up on a diet of space opera (and Junkyard Wars), I expected them to swing into action with a "can do!" plan. What actually happened was that the project manager and society head had a falling out over safety, the construction team walked off, a new architect had to be flown in, and a long debate over what to do next ensued. OK, they did get it all sorted eventually, but the attitude of some of the team really surprised me. After all, this was an "opportunity" rather than a problem (to use management parlance), but some of them seemed to think that it was better to play it safe, call the whole thing off, and try again the next year. Uh, guys, a manned Mars mission wouldn't have that luxury.
And then there were the mock EVA suits that they were using, that were - to be brutally frank - kiddie playtime stuff, being mostly trash can lids and plastic tubing. They were quite honest about this, saying that the idea was merely to try out a lot of activities in the suits to try and predict the problems we'll encounter on Mars. Problem was, they failed to apply lessons that we already know, and started with circa 1950's technology. The big problems were that the helmets fogged up (duh), that it's hard to get items out of your own pockets (so you need mirrors on your wrists, which they knew that NASA suits already have but didn't put on their own suits) and that it's hard to read dim LCD screens through a fogged up helmet.
I really do want to be enthusiastic about the Mars Society, but I can't help but feel that it's a big talking shop and mutual support society for very frustrated people who really wish that some serious money would get put into a Mars mission. It's hard to criticize them for doing something, but it's also hard to take Mars Society seriously when they seem to be more like a Disney Space Camp group having a fun vacation rather than doing bona fide boundary pushing experimentation.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Mars:
Has no strip clubs.
Has no alcohol.
Has no dirty mags.
Utah:
Has no strip clubs.
Has no alcohol.
Has no dirty mags.
Logical.
Hasn't this already been done?
Didn't they just pick some desert in the US for the manned missions to the moon too?
Follow me
*insert obligitory cliche about Wayne County, Utah being devoid of intelligent life*
;)
*return to your regularly scheduled thread*
*sigh*
I'm glad that's over with
I would've thought that the Moon would be more of "an effective simulant for the Red Planet" than Utah (or any other place on Earth) could ever be. But then again, what do I know. Let's just jump into the deep end and see what happens. If we fail, then so what if people won't fund us for another hundred years.
The space race will begin in earnest again very soon. Once the Chinese start their manned missions....
The Cold War is over and there's no propaganda victory to be had by space travel. The U.S. should base its spending on basic research on something more substantial than international public relations.
The net effect of the U.S. being first to the Moon is that it is not getting criticized for abandoning its lunar landing program. Whoever goes to Mars first is going to wonder how they'll pay for the next trip and what they'll get out of it.
>> The goal, he said, is to simulate as closely as
>> possible the working conditions that future
>> Martians would have to endure.
> So when we go to mars we become Martians???
Far worse that that, there's a chance of meeting Donny Osmond!
Aieee!
No, we become Mormon Missionaries.
Yeah, Mormon Martian Missionaries. By the time everyone in the trip reaches Mars they'll all be married and pregnant. Which means they should pack for colonization because they'll have more mouths to feed if they start heading back. Hey, at least they'll have accurate genealogical records.
"Face it, a nation that maintains a 72% approval rating on George W. Bush is a nation with a very loose grip on reality.
as well as the solar radiation on the moon and extreme heat (+250 degrees in the sunlight, -250 degrees in the shade) which for some strange reason didn't affect any of the film in their cameras. Remember that three weeks after Hiroshima, residual radiation was enough to ruin most photo negatives; the radiation in deep space and from the sun is much more intense.
Uh, the cameras could have lead shielding and LEAD GLASS (lead glass [def] glass that contains lead oxide and that has a high refractive index and optical dispersion; used in the manufacture of optical glass, in high-quality crystal glassware, and for radiation shielding.) What do you think they used?
Hint: Google search [ lead glass x-ray ]
Hint: Google search [ lead shielding thickness ]
"Face it, a nation that maintains a 72% approval rating on George W. Bush is a nation with a very loose grip on reality.