Twin Robots Scope Out Titanic, Europa Next?

jmichaelg writes "Wired is running an article on a pair of submersible robots that work in tandem to film underwater scenes. One robot illuminates a scene by placing the light source as close as possible to the object being filmed while the other bot manuevers for the best camera angle. That, and a host of other innovations, makes the pair significantly different than the equipment used when the Titanic was originally filmed. Significant enough that JPL has expressed an interest in using the technology to swim in Europa's seas. How JPL will overcome the time delay isn't mentioned but it's an interesting read nonetheless."

Comments

Not likely

[delphin42]

Considering the fact that NASA has cancelled any and all europa missions in the forseeable future, I doubt these things will see any otherworldly oceans anytime soon. NASA has much more important things to do like putting nukes in space.

Re:Not likely

[spike hay]

We will not likely go to Europa in the near future. However, we should go there.

Europa has probably the best prospeacts for life anywhere in the solar system. It most likely has a liquid ocean underneath the ice, warmed by the tidal effects of Jupiter. Deep sea vents would emit chemicals that could start life. Some people think now that life on earth may have started near deep-sea vents.

We would probably get there using nuclear propulsion if we were using a probe. Nuclear-thermal propulsion has around twice the specific impulse of conventional chemical rockets. When the probe gets to Europa, it will send down a small submersible. It will burrow through the thick ice by melting it with radioisotopes.

For a manned mission to Europa and the Jovian system, which may happen in maybe 60 years, we would probably use VASIMR engines. These are plasma rocket engines under development that would get around 30,000 seconds, or 60 times the efficiency of conventional rockets. They work by using magnetic fields to accelerate high-temperature hydrogen plasma.

VASIMR is so efficient that it would allow slow intersteller missions with 1-2% C.

For interplanetary missions, it would allow missions to Mars in about 2 months and missions to Jupiter lasting a year. Also, upon return to earth, the VASIMR ships can just be refueled and resupplied and sent on their way for very cheap.

Also, VASIMR's have some power. They have more power than ion engines.

For interplanetary missions, we really need an inexpensive space plane, like the X 34. That would slash launch costs.

1 Ethical Question, 1 Assumption

[FortKnox]

First, the assumption. We are assuming that there is a sea under Europa's Ice Sheet, aren't we? Do we have any proof that there is a sea underneith?

The ethical question (with the assumption)... should we crack open the ice sheet to get to the sea? This is a sea that hasn't been exposed to anything above the ice for a looong time. We have no idea what effects this could cause....

Re:1 Ethical Question, 1 Assumption

[CheshireCatCO]

No, no and no.
Radio/radar have nothing to do with it. Nor does a "still hot core." Any body the size of Europa would have cooled by now, even with radiactive heat. (Mars, being much larger, is also largely cooled.)

We are pretty sure that there is a liquid ocean because 1) The pattern of cracks imaged on the surface. 2) The types of surface features, which are generally held to be consistent with a liquid ocean under the ice. And 3) the Galileo magnetometer measurements of an induced magnetic field, indicating a lquid interior. Modelling indicates that the field is only consistent with a liquid near the surface, not the in the core.

The heat needed to keep the water liquid comes from tidal flexing due to the forced eccentricity of Europa's orbit, unlike the usual situation for rocky bodies

Re:1 Ethical Question, 1 Assumption

[Rogerborg]

• This is a sea that hasn't been exposed to anything above the ice for a looong time. We have no idea what effects this could cause....

As a signatory to the Outer Space Treaty, the United States is obliged to ". . . pursue studies of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies . . . so as to avoid their harmful contamination. . . ". Non-contamination of Europa is already being dealt with

.

Make sure it is disenfected.

[jellomizer]

It would be real great if they did find some primitive life there. But then the next mission all of it was whiped out by Small Pox, or some other virus that is compleatly forgen to the moon. Learn from the Simpsons, Rember what the Bull Frogs did to Austrailia.

New Lifeform ?

[EpsCylonB]

In the late '90s, scientists discovered the Titanic was being consumed by a new life form, composed of 20 different species of bacteria, two species of fungus and two species of Archaea that, together, form a symbiotic rust coral or rusticle (they look like icicles) that thrive on iron.

These rusticles have formed a single biological mass that is believed to be the largest life form on earth. It seems like poetic justice that this death site of historic magnitude should make such large contributions to man's discovery of new life, not only on Earth, but perhaps on other planets as well.

Interesting, I have never heard of this before, does it really count as a single lifeform ?, sounds like a micro ecosystem to me.

Time delay? What time delay?

[David Kennedy]

Unsure what the time delay mentioned above is about.
I assume the robots work in tandem with each other; being close to each other means minimal lag when co-ordinating the lighting. The only delay is transmitting pictures back of course.

Server seems to have tumbled over already so I can't check but it's interesting to consider what sort of lighting metrics they use - a human at home can say, "That's looks nicer lit like that." but what criteria should be used for autonomous work? Highest constrast? Smallest resolvable feature?

Might as well say it

[sharkey]

• All These Planets Are Yours Except Europa

• Attempt No Landing There

They might actually find something

[HanzoSan]

Thats why they canceled.

The problem isnt, if we will find something its when. And the biggest problem is what do we do when we do find something? Panic? Because NASA and our Government has no clue of what to do, Seti and pro alien people would be wanting to meet the aliens and hug them, and others will want to kill them off, dont forget 90 percent of the USA is religious and could worship them, call them demons, or whatever.

So if we do go to Europa and find something, is NASA prepared for it:?

Europa is the biggest canidate for life, chances are theres life on it, theres the proper climate, and theres water, the life is most likely going to be underwater deep sea type life but theres still the chance for intelligent life.

Dark Matter is Mike Cameron, film-maker is Jim

[uugabuuga]

Cool. Not to make everyone else too jealous, but I was recently at a presentation by Mike and Jim Cameron about this project. Mike gave about a short presentation about the development of the ROV, and then Jim gave a much longer one about the missions. How cool is it that one of the project paramaters is that the ROV has to be small enough to fit in a "B" deck window? One of the many great quotes of the evening from Jim was "I paid for these guys, so I drove mine on every dive. Mike had to share."

The footage is *AMAZING*. There are stained glass windows completely intact. In one stateroom, there's a water pitcher sitting on a shelf above a water glass still standing upright on a vanity. Still upright!!! After the sinking and the impact! Jim talked about how important it was to have 2 units, so that there could be "characters" in the shots. Oh, and not to ruin anything, but Bill Paxton is in on the project. The quote went something like "I'm making Bill do for real what he pretended to do in the movie"

At one point they had a battery failure on one of the units due to a manufacturer's defect. So they rigged up a harpoon to the other, and went in and rescued it. It was an amazing feat, and they surfaced absolutely elated. But their victory was short lived, for the date of the rescue was 11 September.

At several points during the presentation the audience broke into applause at the sheer grandeur of the footage. I can't wait to see the finished project, especially after they get some of the stuff enhanced and cleaned up. There were 12 dives on Titanic, 9 of them filming missions. And trust me on this one guys, you *must* see this film. Even if you aren't into wrecks, it will blow your mind.

NASA has the Europa Orbiter scheduled

[funky49]

In 2008, NASA is currently planning to launch a probe to the Jupiter system called the Europa Orbiter. Its objectives are to determine the presence of or the absence of an Europan subsurface ocean, to find out where exactly is this ocean and to understand how the surface features formed. The Europa Orbiter will also find candidate-landing sites for missions to Europa's surface.

Europa has liquid ocean due to Galileo Probe

[funky49]

The gravitational field probe on Galileo measured Europa to be "mostly rock, with an outer shell of water about 60 miles thick." Other instruments gave readings that supported oceans under Europa's surface. The near-IR spectrometer found evidence of salts and sulfuric acid that came out of cracks on the ice. The magnetometer reported changes in Europa's magnetic field which scientists say to resemble a salty liquid ocean.

When I was young..

[uigrad_2000]

I remember asking a very learned man why space exploration was important. We have yet find anything on the moon, or any planet that adds to our daily lives.

His response: "The technology we've developed due to NASA projects is huge, and mostly unmeasurable. For example, the VCR your parents own would not be possible without technology we developed in our quest to explore outer space."

This is sad. Today the tables have turned.

We wouldn't be able to explore the moons of Jupitor if it wasn't for the technology we developed to make some sappy chick-flick.

Our thirst for entertainment has become paramount, and all else is now secondary!

Actually, no Solar Sails.

[HanzoSan]

Solar sail, Microbots stuffed into a small capsule, and you could get to Europa at very fast speeds.

Solar Sails at 150,000 mph, which is far faster than nuclear
Nuclear also has heat problems, and sure it can
Solar Sail
See how it works http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/prop19au g99_1.htm

Also we could use Mini-Magnetospheric Plasma Propulsion

Plasma or ionized gas is trapped on the magnetic field lines generated onboard, and this plasma inflates the magnetic field much like hot air in a balloon.

See prototype

hmmm....

[Em Emalb]

Ok first off...

"Sound travels well underwater, but sound is slow and can't handle the data transfer rate required for video."

I understand what they are trying to say, but they say it akwardly. How about, the speed of sound is slowed underwater, therefore isn't a viable option for what they are trying to do.

There, that's better. Next, Jake and Elwood huh? Good to know the Blues Brothers are still on film, especially after the not-very-good Blues Brothers 2000. ;-)

My work is done here.

Now there's a leap

[The Cat]

Well, we'll start by filming the Titanic on the 12th, and then we'll be ORBITING JUPITER BY THE WEEKEND!!

Need more than swimmers for Europa

[Pedrito]

How JPL will overcome the time delay isn't mentioned but it's an interesting read nonetheless

I'm more interested in how they're going to get two submersible robots under a few kilometers of ice first. Not to mention, to communicate, they'd have to be tethered (water isn't real conducive to radio communications). They've got a lot more than just a time delay to worry about.

I don't see how this could be reliably automated. Maybe with some people drilling it could be done, but I have a feeling that if we dropped a robotic drilling system, something would go wrong. It's just a bit too complex for me to have faith in it.

hmm..

[waspleg]

"instead of dragging the cable into the hull and returning on the exact same path (and perhaps catching the optical fiber on something), the bots continually feed out the cable they need and exit the wreck wherever it is convenient.

When the bots get back to their docks on the submersibles, the umbilical is simply jettisoned. Not having to go back or untangle the cable is a tremendous time-saver. Furthermore, the cable is designed to decompose quickly so it won't leave an unsightly web-like mess for future visitors to encounter."

i wonder if decomposing fiber optic lines are good for preservation of the ship.. or the life around it..

Re:I'm *so* glad....

[NOT-2-QUICK]

Silly man...everyone knows what JPL stands for!!!

Obviously, it is the initials of famous singer/actress/model J. Lo. That's right, the infamous Jennifer Penelope Lopez!!!

And yes...she has been working with Dark Matter for some time now in hopes of not only exploring the depths of the ocean on Europa, but also exploring the mystery that is her giant butt ...

Jet Propulsion Laboratory...where do you guys come up with this stuff!!! :-)