Slashdot Mirror
Suing Sony for Everquest Related Suicide?
daoine writes "The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has a story about how Sony could be sued by the mother of an Everquest player who recently committed suicide. The lawsuit itself doesn't seem all that interesting (she's aiming for warning labels) -- but it is interesting that Sony won't release any of the game data citing privacy policy, even if it could help unlock what exactly drove the guy to end his life."
Clearly if the guy had mental problems, then playing games 12 hours a day wouldn't help...
Shawn Woolley - who was overweight, worked in a pizza restaurant and lived alone in an apartment the last months of his life - may have depended on EverQuest to provide the life he really wanted to live.
Couldn't have been that he was a schizoid depressive maniac who didn't have any friends. Must be the game.
(Leaves comparisons to Black Sabbath and D&D to other posters....)
She is angry that Sony Online Entertainment, which owns EverQuest, won't give her the answers she desires.
In other words, she'll appeal and appeal until Sony caves in and settles.
"The manufacturer of EverQuest purposely made it in such a way that it is more intriguing to the addict,"
Well, *duh*. Entertainment is supposed to be enjoyable...And *newsflash!* Enjoyable things are addictive! Like sports...taking walks...shopping...sex! If it wasn't, then we as humans wouldn't seek it out so often, and it wouldn't enrich our lives - We'd turn into very dull people.
Not only that, but it's in Verant/Sony's financial interests to make the game enjoyable and addictive. Since it's on a subscription-based model, they need people to *want* to continue to play, so that THEY can to continue to make money.
*FWAP* - The sound of 1,000,000 Slashdot readers simultaneously slapping their foreheads in disgust...
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Jebus, if he had that big a problem, and it was ruining his life, couldn't his mother have intervened and uninstalled the damned thing? Or maybe take the computer away? So the guy was 21 and living in his own apartment... he wasn't exactly making the big money, so it's likely he wouldn't be able to afford a new computer... And by the looks of it, he wasn't too much brighter than his mother...
I'm looking California... but feeling Minnesota...
OK, her son got seizures from the game and she's suing to have warning labels on the game because her son killed himself? His suicide was probably seizure related. (IANAD, so that may not be possible)
Oh, and good for Sony for standing behind their privacy policy.
Monday is a horrible way to spend 1/7 of your life.
Obviously this guy wasn't a normal Everquest player, and there should be a lot of evidence for why he suicided sitting around in the ordinary world. I don't see any need to violate a privacy policy, which IMO should be inviolate.
the kid was 21 years old, an eppileptic, and clinically depressed, along with a few other psyhological disorders. IANA[insert profession here], but to me it's clear that the game was part of the problem as he was playing 12 hours/day, and once thought the characters were chasing him, but mom and the psychologist continued to let him play it. Sony's lawyers will also be quick to point out the Columbine case.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
It amazes me how people are stupid enough to believe these games would drive someone crazy enough in order to make him suicide! Thats bullshit! Ive played GTA, Carmaggedon, Duke Nuken 3D and many other games even worse and I never killed anyone, never drive into anything, never killed myself (duh, obviously)...
Tell this idiot mother to look for other problems her son might had instead of trying to get some money from Sony!
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
Your kid was 21 fucking years old! If that's not old enough for him to be responsible for his actions, you should have had him in a home. I'm sorry for your loss, but you are making yourself look like an ass by suing Sony.
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times." Bill Hicks
but it is interesting that Sony won't release any of the game data citing privacy policy, even if it could help unlock what exactly drove the guy to end his life
Sony (rightly) believes that giving this case the time of day is in a way admitting possibility of fault. The simple fact is that people commit suicide over a lot of things. If someone reads a book and it depresses them to the point that they kill themselves, it's not the fault of the author. Likewise, while it's very sad that this person killed himself, it's in absolutely no way Sony's fault.
Sony (again, rightly) believes that their game data is irrelevant to the case. What would be a lot more telling is an analysis of any possible psychological problems the boy had that led to his suicide.
Lendrick
... it's compulsive behavior. Almost anything can be compulsive. Picking your nose, eating your hair, sucking your thumb, washing your hands fifty times a day, sex - they can all be compulsive, but they're not addictive.
To compare video games to things that are really addictive like smoking or crack is silly. Worse than that, it gives you an excuse not to deal with your compulsion properly. It's way to easy to say "oh, I can't quit - I'm addicted". Nonsense. Go on vacation somewhere where you have better things to do than EverQuest and you'll find your "addiction" wasn't nearly as strong as you'd thought.
As for this poor guy who committed suicide, that's sad. But he obviously had deeper problems. If EverQuest hadn't existed he would have latched on to some other way of escaping from his real life.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
This is no different from the whole "Doom killed my kids" thing. The parents obviously feel horrible, and can't face the fact that their negligence and/or poor parenting directly contributed to their childs demise. Therefore, someoine else must be to blame. Even if he killed himself because of events in the game he OBVIOUSLY didn't have a very solid seat in reality. She should go to jail for child abuse.
Just my 2 cents.
The article follows a line of reasoning that because Everquest is addictive it should come with warning labels just like alcohol and tobacco products. The problem with this analogy is that Everquest is NOT an addictive substance. I agree it can be addictive, but it follows more in rank with Gambling than drugs and alcohol. It's pure sensationalism to draw a comparison between a game and highly addictive chemical substances. However, to simply dismiss the potential harm Everquest can cause is underestimating the situation. Sure most people won't get addicted in any harmfull way. But there are those same personality types which get addicted to gambling that can find the same kind of problems from Everquest. There really needs to be more common sense in journalism these days.
Books make people do bad things too.
I once read that book "The Diceman" and then did something bad, which resulted in one of my friends not speaking to me anymore. That was definately the books fault.
And didn't the guy who shot JFK read "Catcher in the Rye?". So that was the fault of a book too. And those insane terrorists were influenced by the Koran, weren't they? So books cause terrorism.
So, definately a warning label is required on books. "Warning: Reading books might make you do bad things". Something like that.
If I'm not mistaken, every computer dork (myself included) was just described as a depressed schizoid. I'm not sure if I should be proud or if I should feel more depressed.
First is the usual "we can't understand the gamer" / "games kill" stance. This isn't anything new to the Slashdot crowd, I'm sure. Heck - I've been in the middle of a lot of these things through my entire life (D&D, Arcade games, FPS Shooters, MUDs, Paintball, etc). So yea. Shake your head at in awe. Collectively yawn. Nothing new here.
Where it becomes interesting is that this is NOT a kid. This was a 21-year old adult. Living on his own. He had been diagnosed with several conditions (eplileptic, depression, schizoid personality disorder) but it doesn't appear that he was a ward of his parents or anyone else. He was his own person. His own responsibility.
Sony is right in refusing to release information on his account. This information belonged to the player alone. Unless there is a legal reason to do otherwise (ie: police investigation with appropriate warrent), Sony would be breaching their customers privacy by releasing any details.
She would make more money auctioning his character on e-bay. After all that game time its stats and kit must be superb.
Everquest boasts a user population of over 300,000.
.sig
The national rate for suicide is 1 in 10,000.
If only one person committed suicide after playing Everquest,
then Everquest players are 97% less likely to commit suicide.
I'd guess there are 30 suicides among Everquest players each year,
but the families don't think of blaming Sony for them.
-- this is not a
Egads people, the when I read the article I did not take that the mother was trying to BLAME Sony, she was just trying to figure out what pushed her son over the edge. She was aware he had a lot of problems, she tried to get him to go to a group home, but you know what, he was 21, a legal adult, he could do what he wanted.
It's like a drug addict, you can try to pursuade them to get help but if they don't you can't do anything.
People want some labels, that's not such a bad idea. What if my kid has some mental problems, but likes to play video games. I don't have the time to go out and research every possible video game they could be playing. You can try to be as aware as possible but things slip through, and you know what, if this guy was as dependant on EverQuest as it sounds, just pulling it away probably would have led him to another psychotic episode.
There's nothing wrong with putting a label on games that lend themselves to being immersive that says something to the effect "Warning: Over use of this game has been known to lead to a dependance in some individuals, and can be a hazard to your health".
Then some poor computer illiterate mother or father can read it and say, oh geez, that can lead to an addiction? My son has an addictive personality, I'd better not get him it as a birthday present.
--- I used to moderate, then I read the -1 articles and decided having to filter through them was not worth it.
"We're trying to whack them with a verdict significantly large so that they, out of fiscal self-interest, will put warning labels on," he said. "We're trying to get them to act responsibly. They know this is an addictive game."
For the love of Pete, people. Cigarettes are addictive because of nicotene, which is a chemical agent that acts on the brain. Warning labels go on cigarettes because the smoke causes long-term damage to one's lungs, and more. Lawsuits are being levied against the tobacco industry because they've been knowingly increasing the levels of nicotine in their products to increase addiction, marketing to children who may not be aware of the dangers of the product, and have for years denied any knowledge of the dangers their products cause.
None of these arguments apply to video games.
It's a virtual world, people. The problems here are as old as IRC, BBSes and even Ms. Pac-Man arcade machines. Heck, gamblers have for centuries had the same problems. If it's fun, people can and do get addicted. But that's not Sony's fault, nor is it (to be bluntly honest) their problem.
Sony is NOT deliberately manipulating their games or online worlds to make people play longer. They are NOT adding subliminal messages saying "Play more EverQuest" or installing Trojan horses that log you on when you're trying to do productive work. They don't offer any incentive to play, other than virtual money and level powers. The fact that people sell high-powered characters on eBay for real money is something Sony has even tried to prevent in court themselves.
They know the game is popular, but there is no way a sane person can argue they are KNOWINGLY addicting people to this thing.
Elizabeth Woolley of Osceola: I hate to say it, but the game had nothing to do with your son's suicide. The suicide and his addiction to the game doubtless had the same cause -- "A psychologist diagnosed him with depression and schizoid personality disorder," according to the article -- but you cannot hold Sony responsible for keeping him from playing as often as he liked.
The game is popular, it is fun, but it's not designed to be addictive any more than any other video, board, or card game. With all due respect to your tragedy, you're looking for blame in exactly the wrong place.
...for a while, anyway.
I mean, this guy was an epileptic, schizoid, overweight, sex-deprived (what the hell is 'sexual anorexia' anyway?) manic-depressive who worked at a pizza place. His life really sucked. Who can blame him for wanting to escape into a world where he's fit, good-looking, powerful and respected? And who knows, maybe playing EQ was the only thing that kept this guy interested in living as long as he did?
He obviously needed help, and it's very sad that it ended this way. Apparently there weren't any people around who were willing to take enough of an interest to get him the help he needed, but why blame the game?
The obvious answer is that his mom knows that she should have helped him, and didn't, but doesn't want to accept it so she'd rather blame the faceless corporation that may, arguably, have brought this guy what little joy he had.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
I'd say that I miss objective journalism, but I've become cynical: I no longer believe there ever was any.
Ellen
mods metamodded as "Unfair"
Years ago, it was Rock 'n' Roll. Then it was Dungeons and Dragons (anyone remember the Tom Hanks movie Mazes and Monsters?) Now it's computer games. The simple fact of the matter is that certain forms of entertainment tend to appeal to certain types of people, and that for some people...
Statistical analysis of this have always shown that people who play D&D are less likely to commit suicide than the average public.
The only reason these types of games get associated is because the public image of the players has consistently been that of the outsider/geeky/skinny runt. The facts are actually quite different. You can find the results on Wizards of the Coast. I play D&D and I'm 33 years old with a wife. I enjoy playing for the same reason people like to play poker. I get a chance to be with my friends on a regular basis.
My point is, don't believe the hype.
First, let me say I feel for you, and your loss. I'm not trying to minimize it, I just don't understand something. Maybe you can help me.
What good does knowing "the path was that he was on" do? The person is dead; it's tragic. I understand grasping for answers, for a reason why your loved one did this, but how can we make sense out of a senseless act?
My father was mentally ill (paranoid schizophrenia), and when he died 4 months ago, I inherited his laptop computer. In an attempt to understand him, I started looking though his files, hoping to find something, anything, that would explain why he was the way he was.
Sadly, there wasn't anything. What I found was the disturbed dillusions and imagined conspiracies of a sick man. He was mentally ill, and as seen from inside, his world was distorted and twisted. There was no peace to be found, no epiphany of understanding his essential nature. Just more sadness at how his disease robbed him of his life.
I imagine it's similar for you, and for the parents of this Everquest player. You're grasping for a reason why, but there is no rational reason why someone kills themself due to depression or mental illness. Delving too deeply in that muck just brings more pain.
And his mother wants to enter EQ world for revenge... Braveheart style. It doesn't matter... it's a virtual world that ends when your session ends. She is pointing fingers when the problem is he was a very disturbed individual.
Then Jay is a pretty ignorant chemical dependency councellor, because you can fuck yourself up in a lot fewer than 15 weeks by binge abuse of anything. The Government actually says that cocaine isn't actually that big a deal. The problem - as with any addiction - is binge abuse and the associated screwing up of your life and that of those around you. Yes kids, doing anything for 36 hours straight can fuck you up. Cocaine, alcohol, EverQuest, hacking, screwing, car mechanics, drinking water, praying.
At some point we have got to stop making arbitrary decisions to slap "good" and "bad" labels on various substances and activities. Because - with a few noticable exceptions - the problem is generally the abusive behaviour and not the substance or activity being abused.
OK, let's look at the cocaine analogy, because it keeps getting raked up. Cocaine (a non physiologically addicting substance, as used by the President of the United States) was used widely and legally for fifty years by perfectly ordinary average people, until a series of frenzied newspaper stories in the 1910's stirred up an irrational campaign to have it banned because of all the "Negro Cocaine Fiends" running around raping white women (the police also increased the standard caliber of their guns from .32 to .38 because "The cocaine nigger sure is hard to kill," if you want to know where that scene in Alien Nation came from). This, of course, does not form part of standard drug education in schools, because drugs are bad, and we can't give any context that might dilute that message, like "Drugs are bad (when abused by people with abusive personalities)".
Similarly, there is a very real danger of games going the same way. It only takes a few genuine and tragic reports of binge abuse to trigger a frenzy of supposition and speculation that leads to knee jerk legislation that will never, ever be taken off the books, because black markets and Wars on Whatever are great for incumbent governments looking for a long term unwinnable but popular crusade. Remember, circa 1900, the vast majority of the population enjoyed cocaine, in small, dilute quantities, just as now, the vast majority of the population enjoys playing games, computer or otherwise, with no ill effects. If we don't learn the lessons of the past, then in eighty years, we might be in a world where Disney games are the only legal ones and people gather in dirty back rooms to share virus ridden copies of Quake 13 in huge debilitating weekend binges. It's unthinkable? Ask anyone from 1900 about the possibility of cocaine being viewed as more dangerous than a rabid pit bull with a flick-knife, and they'd laugh in your face.
Let's have some consistency. If EverQuest really is dangerous when abused in binges by sad, desperate people with no life or hope, then let's ban it outright, because god knows that's worked in the War on Drugs, right? If not, legalise cocaine and put a warning on it to only buy approved, over the counter non-cut (virussed) versions, and not to binge abuse it, especially if you have a medical condition that makes you very succeptible (like epilepsy or schizophrenia with games).
And while we're at it, if I go on a 36 hour prayer binge and start having hallucinations, do we put a warning label on rosary beads? If not, why not? Because paranoid solipsistic visions are "good" when they feature commands from Baby Jesus, whereas the same messages coming from EverQuest Eric are "bad"? Hmmm.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I've seen this elsewhere today, but it cannot be overstated...
Everquest uses a randomized rewards system, meaning that you do not consistently get responses for repeating the same behaviour. If you kill a monster you may get experience, but not always. This is intermittant reinforcement which is a highly effective method of conditioning behavior. And, like advertising*, it works works very well whether you believe it is affecting you or not. Just repeat, over and over, stimulus-response, stimulus-response... there is a reason for the nickname Evercrack!
* If you don't believe that you are affected by advertising, spend a few days working at a direct marketing company or ad agency... it is very scary how effective ad 'tricks' can be on any audience. The only advertising question what is the right stimulus for the audience.
It'd become marketing - video game makers wouldn't bother to release games without the sticker.
And of course, this is the same kind of legal action that makes it so that a cup of coffee now has a warning on it - 'Warning - this beverage is extremely hot'.
My, oh my. The title did read:
And now, as if by magic, it reads:
OK, we're getting the idea. Thing is, this is the web. It's all cached somewhere. Maybe an idea to acknowledge the correction when you screw up, rather than trying to cover it up. You're writing for the record here, guys.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
If people can't take care of themselves then let the government do it. If someone dies (because he/she shouldn't have been doing it in the first place) then blame the manufacturer!
Like the case where a moron used his lawn mower to trim his bushes and lost some fingers or arms. He sued the maker of the lawn mower (and won) because the company didn't put a warning label on the mower telling him not to do that.
As the mother says in the article: "Shawn was playing 12 hours a day, and he wasn't supposed to because he was epileptic, and the game would cause seizures," she said. "Probably the last eight times he had seizures were because of stints on the computer."
If he wasn't supposed to be playing then why did you let him play you stupid bitch? (man that frustrates me!) Who was going to make him stop playing the game? The police? FBI? Sony? Guess what, lady. YOU were the only one that knew about his condition. YOU were the one that let him keep playing (even after you knew that he was playing 12 and 36 hours in a row). YOU were the one who neglected to do anything about his game playing. The fault is yours, not Sony's.
Wake up and smell the fucking coffee!
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
I know this guy was an adult (age 21), but still this case reeks of every case from Columbine to the next one we will read about - lack of any sort of intervention by parential figures. People, get a clue, if you don't have involement in your siblings lives, regardless of age, you are doing more damage than any game can ever do.
RonB
It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.
In other news, a recent Microsoft study has proved that Microsoft is not in fact a monopoly...
- Dave
Get off it
I could easily say, going to work everyday and posting on slashdot is a waste of life, I could say the only way to enjoy life is to go to raves and parties every night.
Who am I tell other people how to spend their lives?
Its people like you, constantly telling this weak minded person that their lifes a waste, that most likely caused this guy to commit suicide in the first place.
Imagine everyone telling you how you are wasting your life because you refuse to live like they do,
lets see, doctors, teachers, people like you, your own mother, a weak minded person can easily be influenced by other people and might commit suicide.
My advice to you, never tell anyone their life is a waste.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
First of all, the mother isn't suing Sony saying that EQ caused her son to kill himself. So you can stop the speculation on whether she'll win, because it isn't an issue.
Second, Everquest is addictive. Not chemically addictive, but neither is marijuana, which is the perfect comparison.
Smoking pot makes you not really care about the world. You smoke a bowl and just sit around doing anything. No sense of "I should be doing something productive" or "hmm...sitting around here playing video games isn't really that fun, maybe I should go see what my friends are up to".
It's exactly the same thing with Everquest, except it works in a different way. You log on, you play the game, and you accomplish things in the game. You gain a level, or you get some new item, and that makes you feel like you've accomplished something. And you have. Getting to a high level in Everquest takes hard work and long hours. And because it takes the same sort of qualities that real accomplishments take to achieve, it seems like you're being productive.
To summarize: pot makes you do nothing but smoke pot because you don't care about accomplishing anything. EQ makes you do nothing by play EQ because it seems like you're accomplishing stuff.
Success in Everquest is a lot easier than in the real world. There's no random setbacks, your sword won't suddenly break, you can't get fired from your job, some dot com isn't going to collapse right after promoting you, and so on. It gives you a chance to socialize with people without the hassle of actually making friends.
Everquest is a perfectly fine diversion, but it's very very easy to get caught up in it and it become more than a diversion. What'll I do tonight? Well, I could go out to a club, have a few drinks...but...maybe I won't have a good time. I'll just play Everquest. Anyway, I started playing Everquest a lot while I was unemployed. Why not, since I didn't have anything else I needed to do? But the thing is that that sense of accomplishment from the game keeps you from being motivated to go accomplish anything in real life, so I'm quitting at least until I have my real life more in order.
Rediculous or not -- Yeah, i'm sure we can all appreciate the great humor in what happened. I'm glad we've got compassionate Slashers, and I'm thankful that the funniest posts get modded the highest in a suicide story.
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
I've been trolling a lot lately but it's time to get serious.
Who knows if Norrath is real or not? unlike other games, the world that MMORPGs exist in is created in the minds of the players. It has tangible qualities. You experience it with 2 of the 5 senses - as many as you experience most of the real world with. At a certain point MMORPGs have to be given status on some level with reality because of their effect on people. This isn't a "save the children from themselves" thing, but it's a problem of world substitution. With a sufficient amount of imagination anyone can be drawn into a fantasy world.
Someone else in this story mentioned the fact that you work a lot of time to get to a level in the game and that's hard to give up. Do you program? do you write or play music or create anything? have you ever grown attached to a creation of yours or working a long time to do something that never quite seems to get done? MMORPGs dangle the carrot like that. some are immune to the temptation. Others are not.
MMORPGs ARE drugs, I'm convinced of that. I know some people that do drugs for recreational purposes and put them down when they need to be put down. I know others whose lives become controlled by the drug until they run out of their supply. This does not make them weak. They are valid human beings. It makes them susceptible and the fact that EQ and other MMORPGs take advantage of this trait is reprehensible.
Son, speaking as a psychologist (IAAP) I can tell you right here, right now, that counseling alone will do dick for just about every psychosis, most neuroses that are more than mild, and most forms of depression. In these instances, which constitute the vast majority of what we term 'mental illness', drugs are absolutely required. Counseling might help in combination with the drugs, but the drugs are almost always necessary.
People who blather on about 'being strong' and 'not being drug dependent' were either never serious cases or are utter morons. Don't presume to offer an authoritative opinion on something you know nothing about, especially when that opinion essentially devalues the experience and the quality of character of everyone with a serious mental illness.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
I am sorry to here about Shawn Woolley killing himself. However, he did not die because of the game. He died because he killed himself.
Yes, the game is addictive. However, demanding a warning label on a game is not an act of a sane person either. How many people have ever read the disclaimer on a piece of software? (Lawyers do not count.) Would watching several movies each night also be considered addictive? What about watching days of "wall to wall" coverage of thousands of people killed when two buildings are attacked in New York City? Should we demand a warning label for these addictions?
Forget about the warning labels and pay attention to the warning signs. Shawn was mentally unstable. His psychologist knew that about him. He killed himself by using a gun. Was there a warning label on the gun? So put a warning label was put on everything in the world. Would Shawn still be alive today?
For those who play the game, remember the only thing real about the game is the people behind the character. These people can befriend, help or hurt your feelings. Play the game only when it is fun and have fun in the real world.
The world we live in has many choices. Everyone has a life to live. We begin to make our choices in life when we become adults. Mrs. Woolley, your son made a choice that most people consider to be a bad one. He was an adult.
Oh, please.
My wife was diagnosed with a "Chemical Imbalance". The only way for her to be "better" was to take medication.
She decided that she hated the way that the medication made her feel, and she decided she was going to seriously stop. She started eating better, exercising, and getting rid of her inner demons through serious talks. She went through therapy, and she came out of it with the chemical imbalance cured. All tests came out perfectly normal. It baffled the doctors, because western medicine doesn't teach that the body and mind can heal themselves.
Try learning a bit about holistic medicine. Your patients will thank you.
When encryption is outlawed, ?o'AZ-,++o+i++##4AoA+-/-C++bI+/.+~
I bet he had an online girlfriend, judging from what i know about him, he was single offline.
I bet he fell deeply in love with her and met her playing that everquest game, and one day she decided to dump him and he killed himself.
Everything is cause and effect, i dont think the game made him kill himself, but maybe social interaction from within the game made him kill himself.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I have some concerns about that, and yes, they are privacy concerns. This woman really wants to blame somebody. What if she gets the information, finds a player who stole all his money, took his girlfriend, or some such, then tries to sue this player for wrongful death (fortunately, murder WOULD get laughed out of court) because s/he was playing a goddamn GAME? Not that Sony is necessarily thinking this way, most likely corporate self-preservation is the relevant issue. And I absolutely agree that they could show more compassion. But sometimes fingers pointing wildly should hit a brick wall. Some private information SHOULD require a court order, and some should just stay private. Anybody notice that the article made D&D look benign in comparison? Don't see that every day!