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Instant Message, Instant Transcript
shams42 writes: "Although the internet has been far from private for some time now, it seems that public awareness and concern over this issue is mounting. This article at CNN discusses the issue of companies monitoring instant messages for cyberslacking or leaking company secrets. There is also the possibility of them being included as evidence in court cases."
Jabber over SSL would solve this problem.
Finkployd
In this damn age of spyware everyone knows everyone elses business. Give it a rest boys.
So why not encrypt the sessions?
Ah, yet another story that makes me happy about my 50% purchase of CarrierPigeons.com!
------
Today's Top Deals
and you my friend are the biggest loser I have seen in months. idiot.
to keep from being monitered is to turn off the history logging, I know you can do this in ICQ, AIM and MSN. I know that when I'm at work I keep the ICQ history on but delete a lot of the offensive messages (about my boss) just in case.
I really don't have to worry about this, since I'm the 'IT' guy at my company. hehehe
These beowolf jokes are getting so LAME. You loser.
Wake up, fool. Who's the loser? You are on /. trolling on a Saturday night. Or maybe it's Sunday morning where you are. If you weren't a loser, you'd be getting laid right now, or taking that morning walk home from the chick's house.
will spy on anyone if they think they can get away with it.
Video Game cheats, hints a
will screw off on the internet if they think they can get away with it.
So who cares? If you think you're NOT being monitored you're just being dumb. Use encryption if you want to protect your privacy.
monitoring a couple of days worth of internet messaging and seems people here are rather boring
found out about one office affair learned that two employees are gay and saw one guy resist being lured into cybersex with a claimed 14-yo girl from penn
next stop is hotmail web traffic
will spy on the internet if they think they can get away with it.
I have nothing to allude to, and I am alluding to it.
Why would anyone be using any sort of instant messanger at work? I really am curious. Do these people have nothing better to be doing?
sic transit gloria mundi
Since the IM clients, as well as most other things you do at the office are so easy to monitor. I've always made it a personal policy not to discuss any thing over IM that I'd be embarassed to have to explain to a judge in court some day. And in case they were monitoring it I'd always add an "Hi Sysadmin, I know you are reading this" every once in while to my messages just to let them know I knew they were there ;)
Hopefully within a couple of years we'll get the cheerful news that these monitoring companies have gone belly-up.
later,
Jess
I am programmed for etiquette, not destruction!
The text-interface equivalent is 'tethereal', which provides realtime decoding of AIM messaging traffic, and supports logging raw packets to a file.
One of the most common ways for AIM to work through a firewall is by pretending to be a SSL connection to the AOL 'oscar' server, and tunnel through a HTTP/SSL proxy. But in reality, that session is still cleartext, easily intercepted.
I am not sure if any similar software currently exists for MSN, Yahoo or ICQ. IRC is trivial, and Jabber's XML doesn't take much to extract to human readable dumps.
Even Jabber's SSL support only offers minimal protection, as (despite repeated requests to have the feature added) none of the Jabber client software implementations include any checking of the server certificate, so all Jabber clients are vulnerable to 'man in the middle' attacks.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Use SSH link to your PC at home to run text based IM client and/or web browser from your home address.
I've not heard of an employer that monitors Port 22, and even if they did, it's encrypted so they can't pick up what you said.
Best program for this is PuTTY (assuming you use NT at work)
The whole thing assumes you are using *n?x at home and can run an SSH daemon on it.
OF course best of all is to not shout from the rooftops what should be said in private.
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
Trillian has support for encryption. I believe that they call it SecureIM. Now I can't attest to its strength, but it sure seems like it would be better than plaintext being sent over the net.
ENCRYPT. CRYPTEN ENCYPRT CIPHER TEXT DECIPHER
CRYPT ENCRIPHER DECIPHER
ENCRYPT.
OVER.
If you dont encrypt your regular messages, when you do encrypt it will be suspicious. By regular public using encryption, it eables those who need to use it to be safe. So even if you dont need encryption and dont value privacy, if you believe that sometimes individuals do need privacy
I don't who should be more ashamed, you or your employer.
I am programmed for etiquette, not destruction!
People think Instant Messages are like phone conversations - no record is kept, they can say pretty much what they like. People used to think the same about Corporate email too.
Nearly every company today has an Internet Acceptable Use Policy. Said policy covers allowed surfing habits (work related only, etc), as well as appropriate email useage (no sexist jokes, spamming of jokes). Once companies realise that IM traffic is essentially the same as email, they will need to incorporate policy on usage into their existing AUP.
Naturally there's privacy concerns here. People don't like their every word and action at work scruitinized. However, as Pamela Housley (director of compliance at Thomas Weisel Partners investment banking firm) said in the CNN article,'It's just easier to archive it all. I don't have the manpower to have somebody look at this all day long.' This will hold true in most cases.
Most companies already archive all email sent/received by work accounts as a matter of course. However, that's not to say people actually read all those emails. They're there with the sole intent of keeping a record to cover the company's ass if something goes wrong - such as a client accusing an employee of doing something they were not asked to do. If said employee can turn around and say 'I was asked to do it via email, and HERE IT IS!', the company is fine.
Face it - IM traffic sent/received at work will end up being logged as a matter of course. It has to if companies want to keep themselves out of a legal quagmire. However, just because your communication via IM is logged, doesn't mean someone is going to actually violate your privacy by reading it. In fact, most AUPs specifically prohibit the reading of another's work communications without the proper authorisation.
Keep in mind that you're using work assets. Keep in mind that you can, and will, be held responsible for abuse of said assets. Stick to the AUP, and everything will be rosy.
Janie took my gun...
Generally slackers will abuse IM just like they will abuse 'free' phone calls -- to stay in touch with friends and family, make plans to go out after work, or just idle chat.
It can be difficult to implement a technical ban on instant messaging, webmail, etc. There are two many different services using different protocols and different servers to easily create firewall or filter rules to block them all.
AOL Instant Messenger is an interesting example. The AIM client is very persistent in trying to establish connectivity with their servers. First it tries the 'official' OSCAR protocol on port 5190, but if that fails, it tries a high port, and also FTP, SSL, and other protocols that many firewalls permit unrestricted outbound client access.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
After every questionable comment you might make in a message just put ;-). Problem solved.
;-)
For real though, I really don't care if people see my IMs. 99% of it is just jibber-jabber anyway, so who cares.
If your are dumb enough to write messages like "My boss is an asshole" over IM, then that is your own fault if your get busted.
But you would be wrong.
The problem is that none of the Jabber clients implement the SSL protocol fully, and are vulnerable to 'man in the middle' attacks. They do not take the most basic precautions that you would find in any web browser (except Lynx, Lynx has this problem too).
I explained the vulnerability in a presentation at JabberCon 2001, and the client developers have still not taken the basic step of including some mechanism for validating the server certificate, much less added support for client certificates.
Jabber is interesting, and perhaps an improvement over other IM protocols, but the security is only halfway there.
IM use at work should be monitored only if sensitive information could possibly get out through that route. But if you're going to monitor IMs, why not monitor email, phone usage, have searches upon arival and leaving, and so on? I used AIM when I had a job to communicate and plan stuff mostly, of course I used it for friendly chatting as well, but tech supporting is autonomous to me.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
One solution could be to just setup jabberd (on any machine) to run on *only* your local network. Very easy to do.
hahahahahahaha! Lunix hasn't been aorudn for tha t long opens ores is so much older! You gdool! Necty your going to tlle me you are the at commie bvatsard rucgard stallman!
in case uou cant tll from this post thi ng i drank too mucha. grr whut do the keys keeping mvivng like this?
just b/c you encrypt your convo's does NOT mean you will not get in trouble for what you say.
.02
I seriously suggest that anyone who IMs at work should stop. If you know your company monitors email, etc, I could only imagine that you encrypting your sessions would raise their suspicions even higher.
If you are that worried that you feel you should have to encrypt, you probably shouldn't be doing it at all.
Just my worthless
I would think that tunnelling via SSH would solve most of the problems.
I currently SSH tunnel for IRC, but for IM related software, I can't seem to SSH tunnel and get the relevant ports forwarded.
Anyone have a good idea for doing this?
But I'd think that my IRC connections are rather well encrypted.
First of all, the only reason I use IM these days is for work-related purposes with co-workers on an internal Jabber server. Okay, we do our share of chatting that's not exactly work-related, but who doesn't have f2f conversations with people at work about things that have nothing to do with work?
In any case, why I consider the instant transcript a "feature" is because my co-workers and I do tech support. We talk to each other frequently about customer issues. These transcripts often contain useful troubleshooting information. It seems awfully silly to type something more than once, so once a conversation is done, it's copied straight from Jabber into a case note. We usually do not make those kinds of notes viewable to customers, but they are good for internal documentation.
For those of you who have issues with your employer "snooping" on what you're doing, I would not expect any sort of privacy with respect to your computer usage at work. However, your employer needs to tell you your computer usage is subject to monitoring. Employers who fail to notify employees of monitoring are subject to serious trouble if they decide to take advantage of any information they find out as a result.
-- PhoneBoy
The views expressed herein are not necessarily those of anyone, including the poster.
Privacy at the work place...
You are in a building that you don't own..
You are sitting in a chair that you don't own
You are using a computer that you don't own
You are using a network that you don't own
You are using bandwidth that you don't own
Why do you have any expectation of privacy?
It's simply a given.... If I am talking on my cell phone in the middle of the IT department I have no expectation of privacy...
If I am 'yelling' my conversations over the network why do I have expectation of privacy...
If I want to chat personally or sell company secrets I will do it at my home where I DO have privacy... But, not at work
I've worked at a certain big investment bank over the summer. Internet access there was completely firewalled away except for a port 80 HTTP proxy server. Now, one could tunnel IM programs through this successfully but even then, the company has a zero-tolerance policy that bans any use of IM programs.
There is a very good reason for this. Apart from the usual virus problems, it is often *mandatory* by law for investment banks to log all communications between employees and clients, just like the article says. It is well known that all telephone calls are recorded for this reason. All proxy requests are naturally recorded and scanned for port and external mail use (also against company policy). Allowing IM would equally thus be in violation of company policy and legal requirements. Unless of course... if a system was introduced where all messages could be reliably logged and traced.
If you still aren't convinced about these policy issues, consider this. In a IB, if your phones are tapped, all web access is logged and you know it, then perhaps consider that logging IM isn't such a big extra step.
cut the crap, pppplllllleeeeeeeeeaaaaaassssssssseeeeeee
:)
your routine is old and trolling is dead for good on slashdot
all the trollers have either gotten laid (gasp!) or have killed themselves while masturbating furiously
THANK U
So, does that mean if I'm in my rented apartment, sitting at my roommate's computer, posting on Slashdot via my local ISP, that I should expect no privacy either?
What if it's my computer but I still don't own my house? Can I have privacy then, or not?
There's a reason Think Geek sells t-shirts that proclaim, "I read your e-mail."
When you're at work, you're using their computers. Their network. Their bandwidth.
And they? They own j00 arse.
The last place I worked was a dying publicly owned company on the Canadian Stock Exchange. As one of 3 IT guys in this software company of 100 high-high-maintenance clients, I spent a lot of time monitoring my fellow employees for news of the companies impending doom.
I discovered that the 'promised-management-positions' crowd was keeping close tabs on their fellow employees as well. Monitoring exactly how long each of us worked, took breaks for, (and of course) never mentioning the major overtime we put in.
It's funny, because between them monitoring us and talking all day with numerous online boyfriends - the management hardly did any work. We on the other hand managed to keep 100 clients happy, fix the "Interactive Unix" network so that it didn't die each and every day, *and* format all of their MSN chat logs for easy reading off a floppy disk when the inevitable day came that we would quit.
and man, those chat logs were good!
Once we left, we started our own Software Company and are almost ready to release software exactly for companies like that. Network Security & Productivity monitoring software. I wish we had a package like this when we were there, but don't get me wrong - NGREP worked pretty well too.
NGREP src 192.168.10.3 or dst 192.168.10.3 -ql "MSN-IM-Format" >log.log
I am assuming that you are competent with *nix and nt, so installing a keystroke sniffer or VNC wouldn't go unnoticed. This works for offices with people who don't care what you are doing...
:)
Now, to avoid those pesky little spyware, you can always bring your laptop to work. (best some exotic, like an iBook running MacOSX) From there, you can usually hook it up to the company network - ask your system admin before you do though and be so kind to find out his or her birthday and send him a card or give him a present, a long time before you ask
Now, being allowed to run your laptop on the company network either use SSH to connect to your home computer like another post suggested (btw, ssh does not HAVE to run at port 22 and some port on the network is likely not to be blocked). Or you can always use your favorite instant message client with SSH tunneling, or if you want to be extremely cool, you can use something like KDX which has a secure connection built in. Or you could use HXD...
As long as you are just a bit careful about what you do and dont start slacking at work, I doubt anyone will object to you being logged into an IM thing anyway.
The famous workplace, where your freedom is checked at the door.
For people so concerned with freedom, it is astonishing that the entirety of a person's basic rights are handed over like a movie ticket once the workday begins.
And to top it all off, everyone DEFENDS this by saying, "well, they sign your paycheck."
Newsflash: signing a paycheck != control someone's life.
Here are people who tell you what to do 40, 50, 60 hours a week. What time to sleep. How long to spend eating. What kind of house you can buy. Where you must live. What to say. How to dress. How many phone calls to make. What web sites to visit. And so on. It's worse than grade school. If you don't like it, you're "downsized."
Personal life is not to interfere in the workday. No personal activities of any kind are to be conducted at work, unless you're a manager and you have kids. Then you can "take the afternoon off" or leave early on Friday any time you feel like it. All time off is given begrudgingly, even if it is pre-approved.
Now they'll just help themselves to every word typed or spoken during the workday. Excuse me, but why is the workplace exempt from a person's inalienable rights? Why are companies allowed to treat people this way? Why is a paycheck carte blanche to control someone's life?
If it isn't company business, PAYCHECK OR NOT, it isn't company business. Period. People should be given the freedom to be people before corporate drones.
A week before they hit Slashdot. SLASHDOT YOU SUCK POOPSICLES!
...method!!!
3 043.html
http://www.guerrilla.net/reference/biological/rfc
Try logging that! Then again, the company could shoot the birds down or fire you for having birds in the office. Or to make matters worse, the bird getting hurt along the way (like flying into a window while trying to send the packet).
There are several programs that encrypt instant messages. For example, see Simp which is an open source IM program using Blowfish to encrypt all communications. You can download it and recompile it yourself to extend the key bitlength.
while companies may archive e-mail, I think many more have a policy of distroying e-mail and all bakups after a certain retention period. Critical messages are explicitly archived, along with other documents.
They destroy e-mail archives because they don't want it to be used against them later. The roasting Microsoft got over internal e-mail has put the fear into them (if they didn't have it already).
The same will likely hold for IM traffic, but it is still safe to assume that it will be logged and retained for some period of time.
-Me- No.
-Boss- Why?
-Me- Because I've got better things to do with my time than set up big brother stuff so you can make sure you're employees are working.
-Boss- But you're playing UT
-Me- No.
-Boss- Yes you are, I can see you doing it right now.
-Me- You are mistaken. This is a highly advanced network troubleshooting tool. See, thats a Windows box emitting smb traffic, that red flag. I've come to kill it.
-Boss- So you're not going to implement this thing for me?
-Me- Correct.
Boss wanders off annoyed
This Conversation is paraphrased, but did happen. The moral of the story is, arent *we* the network admins. If we cant push our boss around like I used to be able to (the company went backrupt in the
.
Props to CNN for having this article first, Slashdot always has old news.. sigh.
This may sound strange, but if a company is recording your chat sessions, instant messages, or e-mail communications, you can sue them for copyright infringement.
:-)
Sure, it would get all the merit of some of the recent patent lawsuits, but it's perfectly legal. At work, you have no expectation of privacy and often you even explicitly waive these rights by AUPs, as others have mentioned, so you have no legal high ground.
However of all the AUPs I have seen, none mention the property transfer of your communications, which are effectively your thoughts and are unique to you. This is called your "likeness". You are expressing it in your messages and chat transcripts, and by your employer snooping on you and storing records, they are effectively "copying" your copyrighted material, which you can claim copyright to.
Unless you're in a contract situation, the only works your company owns are those, which it has commissioned. Despite popular belief, it doesn't own everything you do at work -- only the work from your assigned tasks/projects/whatever.
I am no legal expert by any means, but at lunch with a lawyer friend I brought this issue up, and he said if he had a client in this situation he would have whatever logs found non-admissible due to copyright infringement. He then told me about likeness and how it can be used against an employer and possibly even to be on the plaintiff side of a suit. I found it interesting he would challenge this privacy issue from this interesting angle.
I guess you're best actually doing work while at work. If you must have security, use the various methods of encryption. Don't be stupid.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
In the late 1990s companies started to monitor their employees' electronic mail, in case anyone was not working, or was not towing te corporate line.
Then they started to watch where people surfed. After all, employees were not executives, they could not be trusted.
In 2002 they started to monitor Instant Messages and to log them all.
In 2004 software to trnascribe telephone calls became common, and these too were logged.
By the end of 2010 and the unbiquity of the thought transponder, the slavery of the employee was complete, and all human spirit was destroyed in the never-ending quests for profit and longer golf sessions.
All employees dressed identically, lived in identical houses with identical husbands, and wore identical corporate socks.
Is this the future we want?
How do we tell the corporate world that life is about people, not profit? The joy of sharing, of living in a community, of being alive, that is what matters. Take off those corporate socks and be free!
(is your postal mail is being monitored too? did you have rights, once?)
It's easy to say, this seems reasonable. It's hard to take a stand for what seems right. Do it anyway.
--
Live barefoot!
free engravings/woodcuts
but it could be applied to almost any job, as long as other people do not strictly depend on you (eg nurses)
if we all were not organizing our jobs to a nine-to-five time-schedule, we'd be a lot more relaxed. i think that it's much more motivating to focus on getting a task done. if that means working 12 hours straight the one day, and taking off the other day, it's no problem.
of course i'm speaking as someone who has the freedom to choose his working hours, but i do get the job done. quite efficiently compared to most of my 9-5 oriented co-workers actually.
actually, i've been reading "the hacker ethic" form pekka himanen last month, and he has some very interesting things to say about the current "protestant work ethic" vs an alternative, not so time-oriented work ethic. the book's a "must buy" IMHO
will post goatse links if they think they can get away with it.
"You're just scared like a little white pussy. I'll fuck you till you love me, you faggot!"
use encryption dummy
http://www.b.150m.com/
I currently SSH tunnel for IRC, but for IM related software, I can't seem to SSH tunnel and get the relevant ports forwarded.
Assuming you have a recent version of OpenSSH, follow these instructions:
1. Run ssh -D 1080 hostname. This causes ssh provide a SOCKS v4 proxy services when connecting to localhost on port 1080.
2. Set your IM client to use your SOCKS v4 proxy server and point it to localhost on port 1080. Most IM clients support the SOCKS proxy protocol.
3. Chat.
My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!
what constitutes permission for fair use?
evanchik.net
So far all of the posts have become: "Oh no my boss will catch me using an instant messager." What about your instant messages being logged by companies who will then in turn use your information to make a profit (either through advertising, private investigation, etc.) Personal data can be stored and later used for blackmail. I know that it is very improbable but after years of using instant messaging don't you think you will say 1) something incriminating and 2) something about your personal life that you probably wouldn't want others to know to a trusted source (family members, best friend, significant other). There is also the issue of instant messages being used in court. Now, more than often instant messages are being used as evidence. Most of the time there are hard copies of conversations on the hard drive that are used. Who is to say that "intercepted" messages won't be used in the future. Some of the encryption suggestions I read are interesting. It would definitely help to protect your privacy. It's not a matter of having something to hide it's the principal of not letting others have a window into your life.
Having just added an XP machine to a small company network, one that uses internet sharing to connect to the net via modem, I was shocked to find that Messenger would start up and of course attempt to access the net. Seeing as the poor company is still on a per-minute dial-up this could prove rather expensive. Do Microsoft really think that everyone who selects "I connect to the Internet via a LAN" has a 24/7 broadband unmetered connection?
My father used to tell me stories of when he was stationed in WWII in the Aleutian Islands, preparing as a SeaBee for the invasion of Japan. One of the stories that continued to amaze him was the deployment of Native Americans to handle communications, now populary referred to as Code Talkers.
... if it just wouldn't be too expensive if we not only encrypted our transmissions, but perhaps had an IRC in which we could roll our own dialects via tools like Bison in which only you, and your buddy on the other end would possess the necessary grammar file.
... but perhaps the process would become so expensive that they'll just move onto hammering the putz down the hall who continues to spew open text.
Not only did they transmit messages in code, but they added a nice little touch, all transmissions were forwarded in their native dialects. Both my father and I would chortle at the prostpect of some enemy intercept trying to figure out Cherokee.
It makes me wonder, especially when you consider the costs of snooping everone's transmissions
Sure, I'm sure the employer and their lawyers could still crack it
healyourchurchwebsite.com - WWJB?
Please go to www.ratehisdick.com and rate the thegiver (the giver as in from www.goatse.cx) a 10. Thank you everyone, especially trolls for introducing me to Goatse.cx
To say the ultimate expression of worth is capitalism, is a good sign of your weakness. Capitalism protects the weak with their namby pamby "property rights" so their little houses don't get taken over by some serious Might. By the ultimate expression of worth, Israel is full not of dogs -- but dead dogs -- offspring of penniless refugees whose very existence is thanks to the benevolence of other nations.
Meanwhile, the Arab countries were and continue to be the source of endless wonders in civilisation -- from architecture as witnessed in the Alhambra, to mathematics (guess what, every time you write a number down, you're using Arab-sourced notation!), to a big, fat, oil source, which can be used to cripple the economy at will.
The only reasons for America to support Israel today are a few whiny Jews in New York and a desperate last hope at a friendly country in the Middle East (hard when everyone hates ya, isn't it?). And, no surprise, the only country with no balls or even ability to stand up for itself, is the first to run to America's call -- Israel.
What's next? X10 cameras in the workplace? :-)
Say, all the productivity benefits of 'computerization' couldn't have been due to the freedom people using them found to work at their own pace, could it? It's unthinkable that a guy is *more* productive for next two hours after a 2 minute IM conversation with his girlfriend, I guess. Nah, let's watch over every damn move they make. Make 'em think before they pick their own nose. That'll improve productivity, all right!
Props to all BOFHs. You have a long and prosperous future ahead of you.
Our company's policy is as follows:
1) the computers and networks are company assets
2) company intends for employees to use computers and networks for company business
3) company may review or monitor any activity on the company's computers and networks.
So don't do non-business stuff at work. What's so hard about that?
But boy are you preaching to the wrong crowd - these are people who object to paying money for anything and think free is a way of life.
Being restricted is against their religion -(admit OSS is a religion to some of you guys -its better for you) and they will flame anyone who disagrees - and at the same time they can all tell you what the picture looks like on goatse.cx and where to find the best porn ?
Wrong - you can't sue them - anything written on company time and company equipment is company product and this extends to all you mentioned - its been proven several times in the courts across the world - do a bit of research before posting this stuff
Point 5 is unqualified. You'll find that most Western countries come out against support for Israel, but accommodate for America. The Cold War is over, get over it.
Point 6 requires a rehash of the above. Give me a big enough weapon (not sell, give) and I can destroy you, no matter how stupid my intelligence is. All I have to know, is how to point it, and where you live.
Corrupt - US gov - check. Militant - US gov - check. Terror sponsoring - US gov - check (most evidence can be taken from South America). To consider most Arab governments "fascist and suppressive" suggests you've never even visited an Arab country. Excepting Iraq, how about staying in one a few days.
You've read and understood a broad range of scientific journals for the past few centuries? Quite. A little learning is a dangerous thing. Go on, do yourself a favour, learn something about what the Arab world does.I came here for support. I hope you can help
Well, perhaps someone could find it in their heart to mod you down to -1...
Even when you encrypt your traffic, it will not protect you from traffic analysis.
.xls spreadsheets from an server in Poland and all the URL's have /..%20%20/ in the path, I give that user a call.
I happen to be the dude in between management and the users on my site. I refuse to eavesdrop on my users. Not all of my users realize it, but we've got a pretty liberal policy (don't break the law, don't be offensive to others, don't use excessive bandwidth during business hours; that basically sums it up).
Some of my users know me for cracking down on porn or MP3 downloads, and think I'm reading their every keystroke. Because if I wasn't, then how would I know that they were doing stuff that they weren't supposed to do?
The reality is, when I get complaints about Internet performance, I run some quick scripts on the logs to find out who is hogging the system. If, after eliminating the obvious business use connections, I'm left with a top ten and number two is downloading a gazillion of
Usually, the user will accept the lecture that his contractual obligation to stick to the corporate guidelines is not optional. I sometimes learn through the grapevine that such a user thinks I'm a fascist. So be it. If other people can't work because of egregious abuse, I have to intervene.
Do I even look at the stuff they're downloading? Not if I can avoid it. The only times I look at what they're downloading is when they start yanking my chain, giving me the go around that there is no law against downloading Warez or porn. Maybe there isn't, I've got no clue. I do know what's in their contracts though.
Most of these issues are dealt with amically. People sometimes don't realize how big their impact on the corporate network is, and even if they do I usually let them get away with it if the abuse stops. They're usually pretty happy when I tell them I've got no clue what they were downloading, but could find out when forced to.
Over the last year, IM became a bit of an issue because of the way their stupid tools communicated (if only they used persistent connections they'd fly right under the radar). At some stage, 30% of our proxies capacity was used to serve a few dozen IM sessions and it really started to hurt web performance.
It's always funny when they let it escalate to management level, and I can at that stage let them rant about the invasion of their presumed privacy, and then drop the bombshell that I didn't even look at what they were downloading, and that it was trivial traffic analysis that gave them away, and that the reason they were in that meeting was because they incriminated themselves.
Bert Driehuis -- All I asked was a friggin' rotatin' chair. Throw me a bone here, people.
has blowfish encryption for yahoo messenger, aim, msn and icq. why not use that? .. i do.
I wonder how long it will be until someone creates a client for AIM or ICQ etc, that encrypts the traffic going over the network using something like PGP so that even if your boss DOES have your or the other person's public key it will be impossible to read.
It's kinda hard to monitor when all you see is GHYP FPTHG FTHGF EGGEEG going by.
Or, I could create one using ROT13 encryption and then sue the pants off of the first company to "hack" my advanced confidential encryption system <sarcasm>thanks to the DMCA of course...</sacrasm>
Just my $0.02
-RickTheWizKid
This is totally untrue. Companys pay employees to work and provide a certain function, they *DO NOT* own them. This was discussed on Slashdot a few weeks back. Just because you are getting paid to do task A, and you do task B doesn't mean the employer owns whatever B is. At best it means you are a poor employee.
Now they can own everything you do when you are under a contract that specifically states this (although it's rare and hardly inforceable, similar to contracts that force you to waive rights in sexual harrasment areas in favour of company appointed arbitration).
It helps if you think of companies as people, which is kind of what they are legally. If I hire you to paint my house, and you instead work on a product that ends up selling millions, I would have no claim to that product. I WOULD have a claim to any damages I lost as the result of your working on this other task and for whatever I paid you if I can prove you didn't do your job.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
You jackass. Slashdot gets all their stories from other places.
I always thought that it would be a nice feature for some of the open source AIM Clients to include automatic public key encryption as an option for those clients that support it.
If you have a server you control, and wish to be able to get an SSH session through a firewall that blocks the "standard" SSH port, place your SSH server on port 443 (https) - both are SSL, and most firewalls will happily let you establish the connection.
/., Freshmeat et. al. while waiting for a recompile is one thing, burning huge amounts of bandwidth downloading crap it another.
That said - It's not spelled Foxtrot Uniform November, it's Whiskey Oscar Romeo Kilo - if you want to download porn or waste lots of time IM'ing, then do it at home. A quick scan of
www.eFax.com are spammers
2 - IM accounts are easier to hack than my own notebook
3 - Whenever I look at my IM history, i find it a pain in the ass to find anything. people send a lot more IM messages, the messages tend to be more cryptic, and 50% of the time heaps of words are spelt incorrectly, so the odds of a bot being able to find what it REALLY needs is going to be dramatically reduced.
Trillian [ http://www.trillian.cc ] will do 128 bit encryption over AIM and ICQ... but only with other Trillian users. I use Trillian anyway, just because it combines so many clients into one. It may be possible for other clients to support Trillian's encryption in the future.
god, you are using company computers on company bandwidth on company time (probably), shut up
Trillian allows users to connect over AIM and ICQ using a 128bit SSL.
Companys pay employees to work and provide a certain function, they *DO NOT* own them. This was discussed on Slashdot a few weeks back.
The discussion a few weeks back was about work created outside the office. If it's related to your job, or it's done on company time, chances are it's owned by your company.
If I hire you to paint my house, and you instead work on a product that ends up selling millions, I would have no claim to that product.
That's not an employer-employee relationship, thus it's subject to different rules.
Contractors by default have their works owned by them. Employees by default have their works owned by their employer.
Just use Trillian and SSL encryption. Fixes that problem.
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
...will respond with an oralse link when they do
MP3
Unless I use your paintbrushes and paint to come up with the new invention, which is normally the case with these "you created X on our time". You are using company resources to do create this magical product. Its one thing to do it on your own time on your own machines, a completely other to do it on your employers time on your employers machines.
--"Karma is justice without the satisfaction"
Another common use is simply to find out if someone is in their (distant) office before calling them, or even instead of calling.
SEC regulations require that trading firms keep records of all email and instant messaging. There are severe fines for noncompliance. Any business that falls under these regs really has no choice but to spy on their employees.
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
There are a number of companies that plan on coming out with Wireless IM/E-Mail/Web much like RIM does wireless, always e-mail and with VoiceStream you can get Wireless Always on AIM on your cell phone. The Hiptop is one thing that comes to mind. Soon you will be able to IM and E-Mail personal stuff at work all day long and it won't pass over your employer's Network all for $20-40 dollars a month.
... and the stalls, and the seats, but I sure hope you don't think they can/should install webcams there, for the sole purpose of monitoring excessive bathroom breaks, of course.
If we cant push our boss around like I used to be able to (the company went backrupt in the .bomb)
:)
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Your employer owns your time. Your employer owsn your thoughts. You are a slave.
At the moment the project is in the early phazes of development, but it is promising. You all might want to consider looking into it.
gaim-e is a plugin for Gaim (gaim.sourceforge.net) which is an AOL IM clone for Linux. It uses the gpgme library for encrypted communications over IM.
Please note that I am not the developer, I am just a highly interested user of the project's code.
> encrypting your sessions would raise their
> suspicions even higher.
Yes, quite likely unless the act of encrypting the data was natural to the user interface, or you could say you use encryption firstly to protect info exchanged with your own Corporate pals. (Well, should you ever, possibly, come to actually exchange info with your Corporate pals, then you'd be ready, wouldn't you!)
> that worried that you feel you should have
> to encrypt, you probably shouldn't be doing it
I happen to think people should encrypt everything that passes over public channels, sensitive or not. The founding fathers (US) used codes when sending messages through the postal service. History has had its share of clandestine postal intercepts. Never underestimate an those with survallance powers when you stand between them and their own agendas.
What Carnivor operator wouldn't be tempted to use the facility to protect his Mother's cottage livelyhood from that "evil competitive b*ch" down the street? Who'd find out? Who'd care? Now, take that feeling of self-serving rightousness and magnify it to the level of "national security". Like how to give Enron everything it needed to do such a bang up job at fleecing the unsuspecting. Do you think any given person with access to the tools would stand by and possibly lose everything on the basis of some "guideline"?
So you encrypt because decryption still takes more work than an individual with a 'tude simply reading plaintext. Or some network tech with a sniffer broadcasting the latest corporate confidential dirt around the water cooler.
Encrypt it, encrypt it all! Encrypt strongly enough that NSA decryption computer services will have to be requisitioned, at least. Better yet, encrypt strongly enought they'll actually have to have a legal basis to involve you with getting the key. (Gee, what a novel thought... Innocent until proven guilty.)
Strong encryption, it's your duty as a free citizen.
the original founding father are rolling over in their graves. this country was founded by the people and for the people. remember it is supposed to be citizens first! capitalism is not a form of government, therefor capitalist should never govern anyone. this will settle where the true power of the US citizen is, everyone who doesnt like how our companies treat us the please save enough money to not work for at least 3 months, then site back and watch your cruel boss, your heartless company, and your slavedriver minded peers piss in their pants when the shit hits the fan. as individuals we cant say much because capitalists have seen fit to manipulate employment laws to their advantage, but together we can do something about it, THIS IS OUR LAND and OUR COUNTRY. WE THE PEOPLE as the true purveyors of LAW by our VOTES are the ONES who give final permission about WHO and HOW companies do BUSINESS ON OUR LAND ....... THINK PEOPLE!
A slightly different angle, not Corp trying to profit from employee, but the fact IM traffic flows through a frigging NEWS organization! True story follows...
/Me (an all powerful Enterprise Architect). Place a large US company.
/me, what will that take?
Dateline about 1 year ago. Meeting attendance 2 VPs of IT, 1 Business Unit Exec, 2 Sr. Product Managers,
Exec: We want IM on all manager's terminals.
IP VP 1: No problem.
/Me: Um... Um... Ya know, AOL/Time Warner is a MEDIA company. You know, CNN and all. And, Um, you're a big NYSE company. Isn't it a problem that everything you'll be talking about will be going outside the company, and through their systems?
IP VP 2 (my boss): What's the problem?
/Me: So, its Ok with you when CNN stories talk about rumors of upcoming layoffs, new products, aquisitins, announcements, etc., etc.?
Exec: I don't think they'd do that, but we need another meeting, we need more work on this. Leaves.
/me: We could set up something like an IRC server, in-house. Pretty much free, clients run on windows. I can have it running on my proto-server (personal Linux box) after lunch. Or, maybe we can buy the technology from AOL.
IT VPs: Oh, we wouldn't want to support that. They want IM, we'll just have to let them know the risks.
/me: Fine.
Shortly after, "Security" put out a memo "banning" IM. IM traffic quadrupled. At least, the Exec stopped using it, says he found it "annoying". I guess that's why he gets paid the big bucks.
Stupid. Just Stupid.
For those interested, salon had a simmilar article a few days ago.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson
Do they do the same thing with the telephone?
No?
That, ladies and gentlemen, is a double standard. Also known as hypocrisy.
Oh, they do monitor your phone conversations? Fine: do they "downsize" you if you use the phone for personal use? No? Then lather, rinse, and repeat.
Oh, they "downsize" you if you use the phone for personal use? Who do they think they are, the NSA? What do they think you are, a slave?
If they're going to treat you as a slave at work, then they can fuck off when you're not physically at work: you should refuse to give them the benefit of any thoughts, ideas, or efforts that don't originate at work. And if they press it, then you should be able to bring them up on criminal charges (slavery is against the 13th Amendment of the Constitution, and it doesn't matter whether or not you're being paid: slaves were "paid" in the form of food, too).
Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
This seems rather apparent: employees have no right to screw off on the company dime. Although self-evident to anyone with half a brain, I still hear people - mainly younger folks fresh out of college and new in the workforce - complain about their 'rights' at work, or assert that without unmonitored internet access they'd somehow be crippled when it comes to 'creativity'.
First off, employees don't have the 'right' to dick around on the web or IM when they should be working. I pay them to work and I define what 'work' is; and that isn't it. Second, if they truly can't function without wasting *my* money goofing off for part of the day, then they need to get a job someplace else. I can and will replace them with someone who isn't hampered in terms of 'creativity' when they actually have to put in eight solid hours of work a day. Especially in this economy, it's damned easy to fire the whining kid and hire someone with an actual worth ethic.
I don't see what the problem is with a company monitoring things like IM. You're at my business, using my equipment - I'll monitor whatever I please in any fashion I desire. If you want to hold private conversations with friends or surf the web, do it at home on your own time.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
And when was the last time you were invaded on actual US territory? By Britain, well over a century ago. You, your parents, your grandparents, and their parents don't know the fucking meaning of war, LOL.
There's an interesting statistic. A great deal of my friends in America are planning to move out as soon as possible, but then, one's brother worked at the Pentagon, and was 5 minutes off being killed because your STUPID military couldn't even fucking defend their HQ.I stayed in America for a month, honestly considering moving there, and the experience turned me off completely. You're like a bunch of fucking monkeys throwing shit at each other, the most uncivilised Western country I've been to.
I'm not going to bother following this thread any more, because it's clear by my needing to provide links for basic statistics that you are completely uneducated on the topics you're trying to discuss.
I will, however, without your permission, forward your posts, as one of the best examples of why the world laughs at America. Thank you for this entertainment factor. Enjoy your week.
What planet are you from?!
You worry about what your boss tells you to do while on the job.
I'm worried about a boss having the legal right to fire employees because they're gay. Or they're not married. Or because they're married, but don't have kids yet. Or they do have children, but aren't married yet.
You worry about the boss blocking web sites at work.
I'm worried about a boss firing people because he came across evidence that they went into an adult bookstore... or even just an R-rated movie. Or the "wrong section" of a very good bookstore. (Think Tattered Cover in Denver, or even a Border's with a large section on human sexuality or other "controversial" subjects.)
You worry about the boss keeping people from talking politics during their lunch break.
I'm worried about a boss deciding to fire people because they're politically active "for the wrong causes" on their own time.
You worry about employers controlling every word a person types on the job.
I'm worried about employers demanding the IP rights to everything an employee does AT ANY TIME while an employee. Including projects they developed at their own expense on evenings and weekends. This attitude was common a few years ago, then got beaten back in the courts, but seems to be making a rebound.
Finally there's the whole drug-testing issue pushed by the feds. I do not support someone working while high. But I don't see how firing people at random because of false positives (since everyone except the DEA understands that these tests are not perfect), or for going to the "wrong concert" on the weekend (where others are smoking and you pick up some second-hand smoke) will make the workplace safer.
You may think my examples are made up, but they're not. Most states have "hire at will" laws and employees can be fired for any reason, or none at all, without prior notice. Only a handful of reasons can't be used, and it's virtually impossible to prove that the true reason for your termination was one of these excluded reasons.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
But, sadly, troll, our economy is and always will be larger. Shit gets done here.
;p
The US gives money to quite a few countries, Israel is one of them. We do not "donate" weapons.
Murder rates are regional here. We put monkeys like you in slime pits so you can fuck and do drugs while the rest of us work. So Compton LA is the land that everyone forgot by design. We don't have to go around forcing a standard of mediocrity, we focus on excellence.
Arabs have a millennium of Abuse behind them, tool. As the people of Constantinople how they liked it when it was ransacked and turned into Istanbul, or how the Indians liked the Islamic terrorist trying to invade their land. Or ask Russia how fun it is to deal with Arab fundamentalism. The use trench mortars in Moscow just the other week.
I looked at your links, since you don't read, I never said that the US didn't give AID, we don't donate weapons. Retard. I'm glad we can pick and choose our friends, and not have to band together with the next asshole to "get the job done."
Keep up the snarky attitude fuckhead., The economy will grow, our will dominate, and you will lick the boots of the only superpower left to keep you driveling dogs inline.
The EU is an elitist piece of shit, the EU buttfucked the eastern European countries. It should be called the "Western Europe Country Club."
Granted, I love a long vacation to Italy, Greece and Turkey, I've been several times. But I have no delusions about where I would raise my kids.
And while we have the bible belt as the "laughing stock," whose GDP is probably still larger than whatever pissant dump you infect, we don't turn our backs on each other like the EU shits do, United we Stand bitch, try us on for size.
Go back to your cave, snark. I just love people who minimize the positive things that the US has done, and deny that trickle down hasn't worked wonderfully for the rest of the world. Those who stand in line do quite nicely, those who resist, well, the go to the back of the line.
How does it feel to be all they way down there? At the back of the line? I imagine its frustrating and you have to create propaganda for yourself to convince yourself this place is somehow "evil" (what a laugh.) It easier than accepting you are inferior, knowing you have a lot to learn and long way to go.
Means less competition for me anyway, not that I need any breathing room, I do quite well for myself. You could have been my own worst enemy in an economic sense, but walking around in a paranoid delusions makes things more fun for me, loser
(I work with an Australian, Canadian, Iranian, German, a Turk, a Bengali, a person from Russia, a person from India and finally an Italian. They are all here for a very good reason, and are not ashamed to admit it. Sure they miss home, but the bottom line, is they know where the money is at.)
HAND.
Don't know the meaning of fucking war? Last I checked youd be speaking German if it wasnt for the US you insolent shit.
Check out how fucking nasty Germany is to its NATO ally, Turkey. Its pathetic you euroscum only invoke the big boys when you need them, then piss into the fucjking wind the rest of the time.
In the bloodiest months of WWII, 80,000 germans were killed and 15,000 US troops. You think fascists or socialists or communists can beat the free world! HAHAHAHAHA. Lol. Fat fucking chance, go ahead and try.
Do you know how dumb you sound?
Nice friends you have there, scum.
... She embraced death with a smile while the leaders are running away from death. Doors of heaven are opened for her."
---
Saudi Arabia's ambassador to Great Britain has offered his unequivocal support for Palestinian suicide bombers while slamming the U.S. in the process, undermining claims by the Saudi embassy in Washington, D.C. that its government does not support the tactic.
"May God be the witness that you are martyrs," Ambassador Ghazi Algosaibi wrote in "The Martyrs," a short poem carried on the front page of the London-based Arab language newspaper al-Hayat on Saturday.
"You died to honor God's word. (You) committed suicide? We committed suicide by living like the dead," the Saudi diplomat continued, according to a translation obtained by the Associated Press.
Algosaibi's poem praised one recent female Palestinian suicide bomber by name: "Tell Ayat, the bride of loftiness
"Ayat" is a reference to 18-year-old Ayat Akhras, who blew herself up at a Jerusalem supermarket two weeks ago.
Algosaibi also took a rhetorical shot at the Bush administration, saying, "We complained to the idols of a White House whose heart is filled with darkness."
White House spokesman Ari Fleischer argued uncomfortably last week that millions of dollars raised at a televised fund-raiser sponsored by the Saudi royal family on behalf of Palestinian "martyrs" would not go to help terrorists, based on denials from Saudi diplomats in the U.S.
"The simple granting of money to the Palestinian people cannot, on its face, said to be support of terrorism," Fleischer told reporters.
On its web site the Saudi's Washington embassy boasts of raising over $33 million for its Palestinian "Intifada Fund."
Last week's TV fund-raiser, dubbed a "Terror-thon," by critics, collected pledges for $155 million. Various Saudi spokesmen have claimed the money will go for humanitarian relief
April 10, 2002
A member of the ceremonial guard falls over as Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary-General is escorted to a conference in Madrid City Hall on ageing
EU is condemned as sexist, racist and ageist
From Rory Watson in Brussels
JACOB SÖDERMAN, the European Ombudsman, has accused the European Union's three main institutions of dragging their feet in stamping out discriminatory practices based on age, sex and race within their own ranks.
All three forms of discrimination are specifically banned in the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights adopted more than a year ago. But, in his annual report, released yesterday, the ombudsman noted that the institutions had "not yet shown themselves to be serious about applying it in practice". He criticised the European Commission's "leisurely approach to dealing with a case of sex discrimination". The rebuke was prompted by the Brussels executive's failure to allow seconded national experts to work part-time.
Mr Söderman had ruled earlier that the insistence on full-time work had amounted to indirect sex discrimination and had prevented a female British civil servant with an 11-month-old son from taking up the offer of a seconded post in the Commission.
Both the Commission and European Parliament are criticised for continuing to apply age limits in recruitment notices and the ombudsman now receives a steady flow of complaints about ageism in the institutions.
Mr Söderman has also called on the Commissiobn to address the small number of ethnic minorities among the EU's 35,000 officials.
Last year, the ombudsman received a record 1,874 complaints, of which 313 were seen as admissible and investigated.
1) The various advocates of run FOO over SSL are missing a point. Sure you can encrypt the traffic to make it hard to read, but the messages are still in cleartext in the IM server. So, your boss might not be able to read it... but the person running the server certainly can.
SSL only provides "on the wire" encryption. It doesn't prevent the server operator from snooping on you. We assume that the server operators are not logging our traffic, but do we really know ?
And, even if the server operators are on the level (I have no data to suggest otherwise), you are only really protected if everyone you IM is also doing SSL. If you send something awful using your SSL-amped client to a non-SSL's coworker, your boss doesn't have to decode your transmission, he can just look at your co-worker's transmission.
2) Having said that, users of a TOC (not OSCAR) based AIM client can do SSL quite easily. Get a copy of OpenSSL and stunnel on your system. Configure stunnel to accept a cleartext connection and forward it SSL'd to toc.oscar.aol.com. Then connect your TOC based client to the stunnel program. That works just fine because the AOL TOC/WWW server supports SSL.
3) The only potentially "safe" solution, assuming your keybord/screen/mouse aren't being spyed on is to use end-to-end based encryption. Currently the only major public product out there that does this is Trillian... and I don't think the Trillian encryption code has been objectively reviewed to determine that their stuff really prevents snooping on the wire and at the AOL server.
Cheers,
Fuzz
%SYSTEM-W-ABORT, abort
If you don't like the rules, find another company. If you can't find a company whose rules aren't what you consider draconian, start your own. As others have observed: No-one *owes* you a job, let alone a job you like. If you get a job, great. If you have one you like, so much the better. If you have one you like and get paid handsomely, so much the better. If some of the factors don't apply, then change what is in your power to change or quit whining.
What is your Slash Rating?
Besides, if you want to complain about servitude and lack of rights, why not take on issues where that has meaning (DMCA, for example). Employment has always been about providing the necessities of life, and lately has included frills as well.
Traditionally one farmed the land or ran a private business. If you look at how craft trade businesses ran, I suspect you'd find today's corporations to be benevolent in comparison (e.g., your boss doesn't whip you for being late to work).
Modern corporations have evolved...I doubt anyone sat down and said "let's figure out a way to make the average worker suffer in dumb anguish." Dilbert makes the valid point that most corporate annoyance is a result of personal fiat and stupidity...not as an outright design to enslave you.
My previous point still stands. You didn't offer an alternative, and you were griping about the state of corporate worklife. If you don't like it, there are alternatives out there (such as starting your own business, becoming a Catholic priest, trying to get on Survivor 5, etc).
What is your Slash Rating?
I personally have 3 friends who were all fired from a big five consulting firm for reasons directly related to Instant Messages. They were unsatisfied with their project and having what they thought was a private conversation, making some pretty explicit jokes about their bosses. Little did they know, their bosses were listening. They are unsure if they were being monitored, or if the bosses had people sneek on to their computers at night and read their log files (one or two of them realized, after it was too late, that they had their logging turned on). Either way, it was a pretty crummy thing to do, especially when the company was doing layoffs with severance, they found a reason to fire these guys for cause and give them no severance. They have all moved on, and since found less stressfull, higher paying jobs. But you better believe that none of them use IM at work anymore...
Trillian comes with built-in SSH (*gasp*) and, IMO, does a much better job of handling connections with the various networks (MSN, AIM, ICQ, YIM, IRC) and uses the OSCAR protocol instead of the outdated "public usage" protocol that AOL "provides" (read: was forced to do by court order). Not to say your experience differs, as it probably does, but I've found Trillian to be a breeze and INCREDIBLY nice.
[insert witty comment here]
Trains, planes, cars, rockets, telescopes, tires, telephones, radios, television, electricity, atomic energy, computers, and fax machines. All miracles made possible by the minds and spirits of men with names like Ampere, Bell, Caselli, Edison, Ohm, Faraday, Einstein, Cohen, Teller, Shockley, Hertz, Marconi, Morse, Popov. Ford, Volta, Michelin, Dunlop, Watt, Diesel, Galileo, and other "dead white males."
All reports indicate that we have a booming economy right now, but few understand why this is so. I hate to disappoint my friends on the radical left, but it has nothing to do with Bonnie and Clyde Clinton or the Democratic Party, or with any other party for that matter. What I'm about to say is tantamount to blasphemy in this politically correct day and age; yet truth is truth. How long are we going to pretend that origins play no role in our world, the origins of the inventions, science, technology, and economics of the world in which we live?
Our present economic boom is due to the revolution in electronics and computer technology. But saying this is not enough, for these things didn't just spring into existence by themselves. They have traceable origins. And all of our "booms," throughout history, have the same origins as this one. It's no mystery. Just look at the list of names in your history books, and their national origins.
The great majority of "booms" past and present have been brought about by the genius and inventiveness of that most "despicable" of genders, the dreaded white male, or, to be exact, by specific, individual white males. This is not to discredit the many contributions coming from non-whites, but fact is fact. Our most important and consequential inventions have come almost exclusively from white males.
Curse me, or all white males, if you wish, that changes nothing. But if you call me a liar, you'll have to come up with the proof that I'm wrong. Remember, I didn't say there were no important contributions by non-whites; I said the overwhelming majority. Of course, I know about such things as the Chinese and gunpowder, but they didn't take it much beyond firecrackers and pyrotechnics. And I know about the pyramids and masonry of South America and the zero of the Arabs.
Would we have atomic physics and electricity if it hadn't been for the ancient Greek philosophers who, for example, had the idea that all matter consists of tiny atoms? Aristotle (5th century, B.C., 25th century pre P.C.) used electric charges to treat gout! Archimedes perceived the center of gravity of solids, cylinders, and spheres. From the basic discoveries of Greek civilization it went to the Romans and after the fall of Rome, it passed to later Europeans who expanded on this scientific knowledge. In modern times these ideas were developed by such Europeans as Volta, Ampere, Watts, Bell, Edison, and Einstein, who provided the basis for most of the technical wonders of today. All of them dreaded white males.
Maybe you got your enlightenment from one of the Ivy-League institutions of dis-education. Maybe they taught you that it's all the result of white racism and oppression. That every time a potential Einstein, Edison, or Ford popped up in the Third World, a White hit-squad would swoop down and eliminate him before he had a chance to prove himself. Or maybe their schools refused to teach him in the Ebonics of his day. Or maybe they didn't have proper daycare facilities. Or maybe our would-be innovator came from a "dysfunctional family."
But the facts tell us that many of the great men pursued their genius at great personal risk--like the astronomer Galileo, who proved that the earth revolves around the sun. He and other men of genius and courage refused to be suppressed even if it meant their lives. They would permit no race, gender, group or class to keep them from their pursuit of truth and excellence whatever the cost.
If you eliminate, suppress, or debase the while male, you kill the goose that laid the golden egg. If you ace him out with "affirmative" action, exile him from the family, teach him that he's a blight on mankind, then bon voyage to our society. We will devolve into a turd-world cesspool. Where has there ever before in history been a group of human beings who have brought about the likes of the Magna Carta, the US Constitution, and the countless life-saving and life- improving inventions that we now enjoy?
Now it is certainly true that China did lead the world in technology and commercial inventiveness about 1,000 years ago. They had great coal-mining operations, gunpowder, six-masted sailing ships, and intense commercial enterprise. But it all collapsed because the elites, the long-nailed Mandarins, centralized control--1,000 years before Mao--and crushed the expansion and inventions.
Does this mean we should sit back and let ourselves be governed by someone just because he's a white male? Of course, it doesn't. It means simply that we shouldn't suppress anyone, including white males. Let our God-given gifts run free in a free and just society, free from the oppression and tyranny of social engineers. If anyone has gifts beyond our own, be he a white male or other, be grateful. Maybe we have gifts that in some small way can contribute something of value as well. One way or another, we're all in the same boat. Few of us have truly outstanding gifts. And most of us have to humbly accept that there are others around who are more gifted than we are. In a democratic society it's not for Big Brother to decide who shall thrive and who shall struggle in the hive.
Fatah threatens to blow up US Embassies and Kill Israeli Cabinet Families. Cute "freedom" fighters.
Fatah's military wing last night warned that if Barghouti is harmed, the organization will target the prime minister and the chief of staff. "We know how to reach their homes," said the statement, which also warned the United States that if Barghouti is harmed, its embassies will be targeted overseas.
*Warnings - and calls for the death penalty *
Palestinian chief negotiator Sa'eb Erekat last night called on Israel to free Barghouti, charging that the arrest created a "serious obstacle" to the effort to restore calm, and that the PA regards Israel as responsible for Barghouti's well being.
Former justice minister Yossi Beilin called Barghouti's arrest "one achievement too many," noting that while Barghouti is under arrest, "leaders of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad go free." He warned the arrest could "lead the conflict into even darker corners, and called on Israel to release Barghouti at its own initiative and quickly."
MK Yosef Lapid of Shinui said that while he believes Barghouti should have been arrested and put on trial, he hopes that "Barghouti in prison won't mean more trouble for Israel than Barghouti free."
MK Michael Kleiner of Herut called for Barghouti to be put on trial and served the death penalty. Coalition whip Ze'ev Boim of Likud called for "a public trial."
MK Avshalom Vilan of Meretz said that the damage in capturing Barghouti will far outweigh the advantages, warning that the move will start a new cycle of violence. Hadash issued a statement calling on Israel to release Barghouti.