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AMD Takes Microsoft's Side in Antitrust Case

Skjellifetti writes "CNet has an article that says that AMDs CEO is opposed to the MS antitrust remedy being persued by the states. " There's a lot of information packed fairly tightly in that article that I won't rehash here. Worth a read tho. Update: 04/16 18:01 GMT by M : Reuters has a story with more about Sanders' testimony today.

38 of 673 comments (clear)

  1. The price for support for X86-64 ? by rainer_d · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everybody has a price.

    --
    Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
  2. Not surprising... by !ramirez · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not very surprising, given the recent news surrounding the Xbox 2...

    1. Re:Not surprising... by Zeio · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is a dangerous game to play, if anything they should have abstained from saying much. They just came out with new (decent) processors for the handheld market, and things like Sharp Zaurus and Palm are legitimately good alternative to Microsoft CE devices.

      AMD also had (had?) a contingent of ultra-loyalist OSS tinkerers and others who are not so hept on supporting Chipzilla and Microsoft.

      I think that given the XBOX has has questionable market acceptance, that the damage done in supporting microsoft is far worse than the potential gain in chip sales through what is still a vapor product (and seeks to eliminate Nvidia for some odd reason in favor of ATI).

      I don't understand how supporting a company that makes use of questionable long term strategies such as horrifically restrictive EULAs helps AMD much. It seems interesting that AMD is willing to use the OSS community to come up with ports of various OSS operating systems and distributions and optimizations in OSS compilers, but is also willing to spit right back in their faces with support companies that do little to promote OSS (unlike, say, IBM.). Also, vendors are not going to be further endeared to a chip company that supports a company that wants to let Microsoft get away with tell OEMs what software they *must* buy for every machine that goes out the door.

      The worst thing of all is that the first AMD-64 optimized kernel that will run on the Clawhammer will be Linux, probably on a RedHat distribution.

      I think the long term ramifications of this show of support will probably not be a determining factor on AMD survival or ability to make money, but this, in my opinion, is not the best was to serve the shareholders or create revenue, something that AMD has a hard time doing (actually making money) - they usually just break even or make some minute percentage of what Intel makes in profit.

      People should know who their friends are.

      --
      Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
  3. AMD NEEDS to scratch MS's Back..... by CSG_SurferDude · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Some years ago, whne I worked at AMD, a corporate level decision was made to run whatever the MS Mail solution was at the time (Exchange? Outlook?); even though there were several significantly better solutions out there.

    What eventually came out was that it was a political decision. MS wanted to be able to show that large companies were successfully using their email package; and AMD NEEDED MS DOS/Windows to run on their 386/486 chips, and apparently this was one way of making sure that MS didn't have an "bugs" that would cause MS SW to crash on AMD chips.

    What's that old quote about MS? "Window's ain't done till Lotus don't run?"

    Same thing again, only different.

  4. Re:as the truth unfolds... by Indras · · Score: 4, Funny

    Almost Monopoly Dependant

    --
    The speed of time is one second per second.
  5. Hold on a damn second by SkyLeach · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "AMD Takes Microsoft's Side in Antitrust Case" is a long damned streatch from them/CEO being opposed to the "remedy being persued by the states".

    Your comment was inflamatory and hurt AMD without cause. If they come out and say "M$ is our bestest buddies and they didn't do nothing wrong." then you might have a point, but they didn't do that.

    That was a GD troll CT and you know it.

    --
    My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so :-p
    1. Re:Hold on a damn second by jmu1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yup. It's getting to the point these days that I have to take a pepcid before I read /. . I can't stand the bologna that they are posting as headlines. Seems to me they are taking a tip from Robert D. Rayford of the "John-Boy and Billy BigShow" All that old drunk wants to do is start flame-wars.

    2. Re:Hold on a damn second by scenic · · Score: 5, Insightful
      On the contrary, Sanders did come out and say that "M$ is our bestest buddies and they didn't do nothing wrong." For example, this quote from Sanders's testimony:

      "Contrary to some suggestions I have heard in connection with this case, product integration is unambiguously good for consumers," Sanders testified. "The integration of innovative features is a principal means by which both software and hardware products are improved, to the benefit of consumers."

      Since the case ostensibly was about bundling and integration, that statement is tantamount to saying Microsoft did nothing wrong.

      In addition, other statments, such as the following quote from the article:

      In his testimony, Sanders argued that Microsoft's dominance in PC operating systems fosters diversity rather than limits consumer choice. He compared the situation to "proprietary operating systems that run only on specific hardware designed and manufactured by the same vendor," such as Apple Computer's Mac OS or Sun Microsystems' Solaris. "Microsoft's Windows operating systems run on computers manufactured by thousands of different companies," he stated.

      demonstrates an incredible ignorance of the technical reasons why Windows requires no single hardware manufacturer. This amazing technical feat has nothing to do with Microsoft, and more to do with IBM and the use of a central (reverse-engineered) bios, and Intel's ubiquity and the reverse-engineering of their instruction set. You would think that the chairman of AMD would realize this.

      So, no, Skjellifetti's summary and the headline choice wasn't a troll.

      Sujal

      --

      politics, food, music, life: FatMixx

    3. Re:Hold on a damn second by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's funny, Linux coders don't seem to have this problem.

      If multiple distros use the same kernel, they can all use the same device drivers.

      It's only problematic to support multiple variants of WinDOS at the driver level because Microsoft has made it that way. They didn't create a driver model that could stand the test of time when they released their first Win32 variants.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  6. Best Friend Money Can Buy by 4of12 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's a shame that AMD, that has long battled uphill against the market dominance of Intel, has bowed under like this.

    I'm positive there are intangible benefits, such as MS agreeing to port Doze aggressively onto x86-64 platforms that are motivating Sanders.

    I remember reading a whitepaper from AMD's site once where they were complaining about Intel being the 800 lb gorilla, etc. and then having the grand vision that Intel was not the monopoly, that MS was the monopoly and the standard to which everything must adhere.

    I guess it just goes to show that in business, if the monopoly isn't hurting you directly, that an "accommodation" can be made for the sake of furthering business interests.

    Unfortunately, I doubt the court will be fully informed about the benefits that accrue to AMD as a result of Sanders testifying for MS, just as there are many subtle "sticks" used on companies that are now long dead that, too, have not been fully revealed to the court.

    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
    1. Re:Best Friend Money Can Buy by JordoCrouse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Windows runs on hardware made by thousands of vendors, and this is good for choice.

      Windows runs on hardware made by thousands of vendors that are only using a handful of approved CPUs and BIOS approved and mandated by Microsoft themselves. You will find drastic similarity in 95% of all of those products.

      Releasing bits of Windows that are different for every vendor creates less choice because specific custom versions of Windows will be tied to a specific vendor.

      The other 5% of vendors (PDAs, set top boxes, etc...) *do* run custom versions of Windows, apparently with no noticable affect on profits. And remember that Microsoft probably charged these companies hundreds of thosuands of dollars for custom versions of the operating system.

      This means that you will have to go with one hardware vendor or another to get the version of Windows you want.

      This is completely not true. The code that you are discussing is so far removed from the processor type that its like trying to say that your car runs differently depending on what color shirt you are wearing. Again, the code on 95% of all Windows boxes will be virtually idential (exepct for some bootstrap code that probably already differs for each processor anyway). The other 5% are already custom jobs, so your point has no merit.

      Open APIs keep consumer choice in place (choose the same OS for 1000's of hardware vendors), allow competing software into the platform, and does require much work on anyones part in terms of enforcement.

      Which is great, as long as the API is truely open. In the past, they have opened half of a given API, and its turns out that the other half is the stuff that really makes the software work well. Its difficult to compete with the makers of the worlds most dominate operating system when they won't even give you the complete API to make your program work in the first place.

      --
      Do you have Linux and a DotPal? Click here now!
  7. Poor Slashdotters by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Poor Slashdotters,

    AMD good... but M$ bad... but AMD good... but M$ bad... but AMD good
    MOMMY!

    It's actually the smartest thing I've heard lately. A bunch of different OS versions won't help consumers, but releasing the APIs would. Go Sanders.

    1. Re:Poor Slashdotters by Slynkie · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Apart from that, indeed my next CPU will no more be an AMD.
      I'll assume that to mean that previously, you've bought AMD rather than Intel for political reasons. And I'll also assume that to mean that in the future you won't buy AMD because they've sunken down, politically, to an Intel-like level (although I wouldn't go that far, myself).

      If so, however, why wouldn't you buy AMD, if they are (at the time of purchase) producing the best chips? Unless you're gonna go Alpha or Sparc or something. My point is, even if AMD has sunk a few levels with this announcement, they're certainly not as bad as Intel, and even if they were, wouldn't it then just come down to who made the better chips?
    2. Re:Poor Slashdotters by reflective+recursion · · Score: 5, Insightful
      What you describe is fragmenting the complete PC software market. This _directly_ translates to hurting consumers. Instead of having all applications they need on one platform, they now have to purchase multiple platforms to obtain every application they need. And you know what? They now have to purchase _entire PCs_. Not just GatewayOS, because GatewayOS is now _bundled_ with GatewayPC.

      Guess what will happen. A clear winner _will_ emerge and the "monopoly" power will simply shift to a PC vendor, a PC vendor OS, and Microsoft's fragmented Windows. Now people must comply with a vendor's definition of an OS. Just like Linux supporters must comply to Red Hat's definition of Linux simply so they have a substantial market there. And you see this happening with the adoption of RPM into even _Slackware_! And Debian, SuSE, etc. must also use RPMs to have a fighting chance at the marketplace.

      Do not think that this "remedy" does more than stir up the consumer marketplace for a limited time. So much time will be lost in the scramble for a winner that advancement will creep to a stop for at least a little while.
      Four words: Applicaton barrier to entry.
      This is hillarious. You know what fragmenting Windows will do to software makers? CREATE AN EVEN HIGHER BARRIER TO ENTRY! Between the time of Windows' fragmentation and a PC vendor's definition of "Windows" captures the market there will be an emmense barrier placed on software makers. Instead of supporting just Windows they now must support GatewayOS, DellOS, CompaqOS, etc. This means multiple ports which are _costly_. And you know who is in the best position for the shift of "monopoly" power? Apple. They are already working in this exact way. They control the hardware and the software. Software makers will simply flock to Apple because now MacOS has the larger consumer market. Goodbye cheap generic hardware. Goodbye Linux. We now all use MacOS X. The barrier to OS competition is now a brickwall. Hardware will once again move towards proprietary and away from cheap generic x86 and the OS will once again be a part _of_ the computer, rather than an interchangable part (which is allowed by Microsoft and IBM's doing).

      This demand for choice is going to simply create no choice. Be thankful you can install Linux/BSD on almost any PC out there today. Back in the day it was the _hobby_ market which created the extreme demand for IBM's mostly free architecture (which can be seen by the ability to install a mostly hobby OS such as Linux even 20 years after the hardware hobby market has evaporated). It was easy to clone. Today that demand is extremely small compared to end-user demand. End-users don't care about proprietary hardware or software. They just want the applications they need. They don't care about shelling out huge amounts of cash either, which is why they consistently purchase Windows with new PCs (and they do this _knowingly_.. they aren't misled at all). Hell, they pay huge amounts of cash _just_ for the pretty iMac colors. Do you really want these same people in charge of demanding where applications flock? The fact that we have a widespread clonable architecture is a near miracle in its own right. I believe people are taking this for granted.
      --
      Dijkstra Considered Dead
  8. Here's an interesting twist..... by icejai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In his testimony, Sanders argued that Microsoft's dominance in PC operating systems fosters diversity rather than limits consumer choice. He compared the situation to "proprietary operating systems that run only on specific hardware designed and manufactured by the same vendor," such as Apple Computer's Mac OS or Sun Microsystems' Solaris. "Microsoft's Windows operating systems run on computers manufactured by thousands of different companies," he stated.


    For some reason, I can't help but think amd's ceo has a valid point here.
    Would (almost) every home have a pc if microsoft didn't exist? What if the market share were split evenly between mac/solaris/*nix/*bsd/etc?
    Would game developers pump millions into development of a game for something like... 25% market share?

    Seriously... just wondering... (no this isn't a troll... )
    1. Re:Here's an interesting twist..... by Tim+C · · Score: 3, Insightful

      IANAGD (IANA Game Developer), but I imagine that a very large chunk of the work of creating a modern game goes into level design, graphics, sound, music, fmv, etc, and another chunk into gameplay. I would have thought that the actual coding involved, whilst certainly non-trivial and a large amount of work, probably makes up a relatively small amount of the effort.

      Not only that, but if the code is well designed and modular, a lot of it should be pretty easy to port from one platform to another. The hard parts will be the bits that do hardware access, ie the graphics and sound routines. Id seems to have done pretty well on that score - just avoid any platform-specific libraries as far as possible.

      Note that I'm not trying to say that releasing a game for multiple platforms is easy, just that it does not require four times the effort to release for four platforms as for one.

      Cheers,

      Tim

  9. 20 years by _crunge · · Score: 3, Funny

    "would set the computer industry back almost 20 years." So if it set the industry back 20 years.... MSWindows wouldnt be around right?... doesnt sound like a bad trade.

  10. I find that line particularly interesting by Saib0t · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "Microsoft's development of reliable and scalable server operating systems has enabled AMD to enter and compete more effectively in the server businesses...because most non-Microsoft server operating systems only run on specialized microprocessors," he [Sanders] testified

    This line (the last of the article actually) puzzles me a lot. Microsoft servers are not in direct competition with big irons but more with linux, BSD and solaris servers as far as my understanding goes. So why does he say that "non-MS servers" run on specialiazed microprocessors.
    AMD processors are very well supported under linux, albeit a bit later than Intel counterparts

    I'm leaving aside the claim that MS makes "reliable and scalable" servers.

    AMD, like other software and hardware vendors, would no longer be able to rely upon the existence of particular software code in Windows or the APIs
    I really wonder what APIs or software code in the media player or IE AMD, a HARDWARE vendor relies on... I really do...
    --

    One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
  11. My enemies enemy is my friend... by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ok it's obvious what's happening here.

    AMD and Intel are competitors.

    Intel and Microsoft have fallen out a while ago, Intel uses a whole bunch of Linux boxes internally for development purposes for example. Not going to go down well with Microsoft.

    And Microsoft is fighting for its life (or atleast that's how Microsoft sees it) so you can bet that Microsoft has offered some bargaining chip or other to AMD under the table (or above the table) to testify in this way; and in view of the animosity between Microsoft and Intel, they're going to be inclined to take it.

    Whether this bargaining chip will be worth anything at the end of the day is probably debatable; history says anything that Microsoft gives you is usually worthless, or atleast costless to Microsoft. And going into bed with Microsoft; what kind of idiot would voluntarily do this?

    --

    -WolfWithoutAClause

    "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
  12. Re:Simple Solution... by EllF · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A few points:

    1. Opening up the WinAPI source would not make Lindows legal. Lindows is not illegal because of anything related to the WinAPI, it is illegal because Michael Robertson has not made the source code to Lindows available to the people who have purchased access, while still releasing the code under the GPL. Perhaps you're thinking of MS attacking Lindows based on its name?

    2. Issuing free copies of Windows is not a Good Thing. Why Windows and not some of the alternative operating systems (Linux, BSD, even MacOS)? Although it would seem like a punishment, such a forced-distribution would only strengthen MS's hold on the mindshare of tomorrow's geeks. It would be like saying that the RIAA should issue free N'Sync CDs to poor kids because they broke the law with their "uncopyable" CDs - it just indirectly furthers their dominance of the market.

    3. Why will desktop computing lose its prevalence once central-solutions become available? Most people don't need or want to be tied into such a system; I have serious personal doubts about anything that threatens both my privacy and my ability to manage my own system, and I'm not even doing anything *really* important.

    4. AMD being on MS's side makes quite a bit of sense, because MS has been pro-Intel for so long. AMD is trying to capture market share; by showing loyalty to MS, they are aiming to hedge out some room for a deal alongside Intel. Pissing MS off would result in them never seeing that market open up.

    --
    We who were living are now dying
    With a little patience
  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. integration good? by maraist · · Score: 3, Interesting
    "Contrary to some suggestions I have heard in connection with this case,
    product integration is unambiguously good for consumers," Sanders
    testified


    and then

    He cited AMD's integration of memory-controlling functionality into its
    upcoming Hammer microprocessor as an example of how companies integrate
    once-separate features into their products.


    Wow, and AMD is sure to remember Intel's integration of a RAMBUS controller into it's Pentium 4, and how embarrising that was after Intel decided to rethink their strategy.

    Could someone explain to me how choosing a particular technology for your customers and saying this is all you're allowed to use fosters competition?

    -Michael
    --
    -Michael
  15. Re:Boycot AMD! by goldspider · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This type of comment doesn't really reflect a whole lot of intelligence or common sense, and here's why.

    Your post starts by praising AMD for its quality products and valuable market role. After reading the rest of the post, however, it's hard to understand why you would want to boycott AMD simply because of their agreeing with Microsoft, regardless of whether or not AMD produces a superior product.

    I really don't mean this to be a troll, but does AMD's support of Microsoft really make that much of a difference?

    If I recall correctly, AMD was once hailed as the Linux of CPU's because they provided an inexpensive and valid competition to the (then evil) Intel juggernaught, who at the time had a rather strong relationship with Microsoft. Apparently the Slashdot community is now prepared to completely reverses that sentiment, condemning AMD and praising Intel.

    If your perception of a product's quality depends solely on it's relationship with Microsoft, you really need to be more critical of the product itself, and less concerned with their affiliations.

    --
    "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
  16. Re:back to the stone age by telstar · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I'm skeptical of anyone's testimony when Bill Gates *asks them to testify* on MS's behalf.


    • Yeah ... because I'm sure the states asked companies to testify on their behalf solely for the good of the people. I'm sure Sun and AOL took the stand to make sure the nation's citizens' rights were defended.
  17. Mr. Sanders needs a history lesson. by TheConfusedOne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is my favorite quote from the article:

    [The proposal, he argued, could lead to the fragmentation of Windows and "would set the computer industry back almost 20 years."]

    Hmm, removing IE and WMP and OE will set us back 20 years? Hell, we could step back to the days of DOS and not suffer a 20 year setback. Windows (version 1.0 that is) was released 11/10/1983. 20 years would bring us back to 1982. The original QDOS was released back in 1980. (http://www.powerload.fsnet.co.uk/timeline.htm)

    I suppose we'd also have to throw out advancements like oh, the Athlon processor if Microsoft suddenly disappeared eh?

    Wow, I really like AMD's products but I definitely do NOT like Mr. Sanders' testimony.

    --
    --- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
  18. Backroom arm twisting by stinkydog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are two possible conversations:

    Jerry: Hello.
    Bill: Hey Jerry, could you set the DoJ right about the goodness of Windows.
    Jerry: Sure! Anything to support your Monoply.
    Bill: Great, see you next week. Bye.

    Or

    Jerry: Hello.
    Bill: Hey, Jerry wouldn't it be funny if Windows XP V2 read the CPU ID and just mysteroiusly crashed if it saw AMD in it?
    Jerry: Good one Bill. What can I do for you?
    Bill: Some losers are suing me because I have the power to destroy a company with a simple code change. I need you to testify on my behalf.
    Jerry: Um, Sure Bill, Anything to keep you happy.
    Bill: Don't forget to wax my car this week.
    Jerry: Sure anything you say.
    Bill: One OS to bind them. HA HA HA HA.

    You decide which is true.

    SD

    --
    âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
    1. Re:Backroom arm twisting by InigoMontoya(tm) · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How about:

      Bill: "Hey Jerry, since we've talked before about this case, and I know you agree with me because of that conversation, would you be willing to come testify on our behalf?"
      Jerry: "Okay."

      You know, there is an off chance that Jerry Sanders actually believes what he is saying, and is testifying in court that the states' remedy is bad because he (gasp!) believes that the states' remedy is bad.

      Some people here are worse than Republicans or gun control advocates in thinking that anyone who disagrees with them has to be getting something for it and couldn't possibly believe it themselves. People do have opinions that differ from yours, and they very well may be well-reasoned and well-thought-out.

      Just a little nugget of truth in the midst of all the AMD-bashing.

      InigoMontoya(tm)
      (the one with the tm)

      --
      This signature is self-referential.
  19. Most Important Finding in Yesterday's Proceedings by telstar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "the Justice Department made clear that the federal government and not the states sets national antitrust policy--a point the judge should take into consideration."

  20. Valid statement or plain old BS? by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Microsoft's development of reliable and scalable server operating systems has enabled AMD to enter and compete more effectively in the server businesses...because most non-Microsoft server operating systems only run on specialized microprocessors," he testified.

    How many processors can Linux compile on again? With exactly the same functionality?

    Just curious.
    GMFTatsujin
  21. 20 years?? by dohnut · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The proposal, he argued, could lead to the fragmentation of Windows and "would set the computer industry back almost 20 years."

    Where did that number come from? Windows hasn't even been around for 20 years, how is pulling out the browser going to be worse than starting from scratch?

    He faulted the remedy provision of the litigating states, which would compel Microsoft to release a second version of Windows without so-called middleware, such as browsing and media playback technologies.

    Oh no, what would we do, use Netscape or WinAmp? Or, or, we could still use IE and WindowsMediaPlayer, only it would be by choice, that's all we're asking..

    What a bunch of FUD.

    --
    Stupider like a fox! - H.S.
  22. Linux geeks supporting AMD? um no... by Bobartig · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What in the world are you talking about? Are you suggesting that AMD stop supporting M$ because a whopping 2% of their chip sales comes from geeks who buy new kit and intend to install *only linux* on their computers? It may seem like everyone and their mother runs a *nix around /. (hell, from what I've read from a lot of you guys, your mothers _do_ run linux), but in the rest of the computer sector, that kind of marketshare and mindshare is amazingly small. Plus, how many /.'ers are reading this off a Pentium Pro system *because* they're preficient in linux?

    Having sold Apple Computers for the last 9 months, I can tell you what 5% of the market feels like. I'd say over 60% of our foot traffic had never even heard of an Apple computer, and practically none of them knew what it meant to say that OSX is built on UNIX. To hedge their bets like that is to give up on the consumer PC market and join the Sun/Apple/Amiga's of the world.

    I buy apple hardware, I run linux as well, but the rest of the business world (AMD/M$ included) really doesn't really give a damn.

    --
    This is where I get my recommended daily allowance of "Foot in Mouth."
  23. Killing any monopoly will harm customers by Zo0ok · · Score: 4, Informative
    I find it very likely that the computer industry and consumers would suffer (slightly) if MS is required to [your favourite punishment].

    After freeing up a monopilised market it always takes time for the market to stabilize, and during this time customers may suffer. This is however no reason not to kill off the monopoly.

    Of course MS supplies the "best" OS out there if you need to use applications requireing windows. This is no reason to protect the monopoly! The government regulated monopoly (in my country) for selling anything with alcohol is of course harmful to costumers the same way the microsoft monopoly is. And of course killing off the monopoly would lead to confusion and possibly worse customer service - until the market has stabilized.

    1. Re:Killing any monopoly will harm customers by MtViewGuy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think the best analogy for this situation if we try to destroy Microsoft would be akin to the early electrical utility industry--every company had their own ideas on how to generate and distribute electricity, and each company will have its own idea on a wall socket. No thanks!

      This is where Linux desperately needs to get all the major developers together and create a true unified standard for the entire OS from the OS kernel all the way up to the user interface. All that would do is save untold hours of costs from installation, configuration and maintainance of the entire OS.

  24. Doesn't make much sense to me by hexix · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Much of the article mentioned Sanders saying that not letting Microsoft bundle their software with the OS would fragment the Windows operating system, which I totally don't understand. And to make it even more puzzling to me, he said that this fragmentation would make it harder for companies like AMD to support the operating system. Would someone kindly explain to me how letting people use competing web browsers or media playing programs would make it harder for AMD to make chips?

    I think one of the more interesting parts of the article is at the bottom:

    "Microsoft's development of reliable and scalable server operating systems has enabled AMD to enter and compete more effectively in the server businesses...because most non-Microsoft server operating systems only run on specialized microprocessors," he testified.


    I read this as AMD wanting Microsoft to be able to continue its illegal business practices as the more people who use Windows, the more potential AMD customers. And I think AMD might be scared that if Microsoft had to play fairly that would open people up to other non-x86 platforms.

  25. Yes, they would, because the profits are still the by GroundBounce · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why does Fram make oil filters for cars even though the car market is split between a dozen or so major manufacturers? Why does Champion make spark plugs even thought the automobile market is split between a dozen or so major manufacturers? Etc., etc.? Because the profits are still there in the products, and the *APIs* (thread sizes and interfaces in this case) are standerdized (at least to some degree).

    What I think Sanders and others don't realize, is that if the OS market share had been evenly split between several major players, then what would have become standardized would have been the APIs and interfaces rather than the OS platform itself. The market would have demanded it, and the standards would have been determined by the needs of all companies involved rather than by decree of one monopoly company.

    Even with today's situation, there are several examples of such API standards, such as TCP/IP, OpenGL, HTML, XML, etc. Unfortunately, because of the current monopoly situation, there are several standards which are proprietary and not open, primarily in the area of file formats such as MS Office formats. And there is proprietary pressure on the current existing open standards (e.g., embrace and extend).

    Sure, standardizing the entire OS instead of the APIs and interfaces achieves the same goal in the short term, and perhaps this goal does benefit consumers and some software vendors, but it does so by eliminating competetion in the OS and API market, which will have the effects of monopoly rents (already happening) and eventually reduced quality (may take a little longer, but it will happen).

  26. Re:Proprietary hardware? by T-Punkt · · Score: 3, Informative

    The SPARC platform is not proprietary, it's an open standard.

  27. Enough already by WildBeast · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How many freaking years have this lawsuit been going on? For God's sake, I would pay a thousand bucks just so they can settle this lawsuit and stop talking about it.

  28. Is it just me... by Screaming+Lunatic · · Score: 3, Funny
    ...or is my AMD K6-2 running Linux, Apache, Ftp, SSH, CVS, etc.
    "Microsoft's development of reliable and scalable server operating systems has enabled AMD to enter and compete more effectively in the server businesses...because most non-Microsoft server operating systems only run on specialized microprocessors," he testified.
    What a bunch of poop.