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Tivo 3.0 'Firebolt' Hits the Wild
James Evans writes "Tivo is rolling out version 3.0 of their software, including Ethernet drivers as well as the ability to download program data directly from a cable broadcast without using the phone line."
My guess is it'll be awhile before everyone gets it since these things come
in waves.
A small random group of subscribers will transparently receive the update followed by a slightly larger group.
Suggesting the users won't know they're beta testing, performing a service for Tivo? Can I get beta testers like that? They'd be much less uppity.
Neither 1st or 2nd generation Tivo hardware include an ethernet port, yet the 3.0 update includes ethernet support...
Does this mean that Tivo will be supporting folks popping their 1st gen. boxes open to install an ethernet card/kit like the one www.9thtee.com has been selling? Likewise, will Tivo be publishing a list of supported USB ethernet adapaters for the 2nd. gen boxes?
Or, is this simply Tivo being nice to the hacker community to by partially integrating ethernet support into their offical product?
(hey that rhymes :)
I'm disapointed that the haven't chosen this release to announce any sort of partnership w/ a company to get TiVo in Canada. I think they could really be sitting on a good market here. We like TV just as much as any American, and historically we've been quicker to adopt new technologies too. It's a real shame too, as the only thing that comes close is a PVR offered by Bell as part of their ExpressView satellite service (which, of course, requires the satellite service) and is a poor comparison to TiVo
My other sig is funny!
Check out Tivo's privacy policy on their website. Tivo is very upfront about what sorts of information they collect from your Tivo unit - and also give instructions on how you can disable this if you wish.
Tivo only collects aggregate data, meaning they can say 10 customers in an area (zip code) watched a TV show last night, but not WHICH 10.
There have been a few hacks developed in the past for Tivo that involved ethernet. Your best bet is to read the Tivo AV Forums:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/
In particular, check out the tivo-underground board there.
Yea, tivo is moving over to the Series II platform. The new boxes are at some best buys right now, and I think all of them should have it within a week or so. You can also buy the series II tivos (the 40 hour at&t one, or the 60 hour one) from http://www.tivo.com
Yeah, yeah, you plucky Canadians with your "money". Get money that's worth well... money, and maybe we Americans will export some more of our toys to your frozen little selves.
>>So what exactly am I paying $9.95 a month for? >>I could understand the charge before because >>they had to pay for their 800 number, but now >>why should I pay for service when the box can
>>do everything itself?
were you operating under the belief that cable services are free? Whoever the cable operator is will sure as hell charge TIVO for the bandwidth they use. Plus you're paying for the program guide information.
The TiVo broadcasts I have been seeing on local cable channels at 2 am
a screen full of vertical blanking interval data with TIVO broadcast in the center of the screen and a "please excuse us this is a Tivo broadcast" voice over with corney music running in the background.
Cool.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I am at 180 days uptime on my Tivo. I guess that is how long it has been since the 2.5.1 update.
My Tivo has been locking up due to the broken-download bug ever since the last upgrade. I got two choices: pay to "fix" it, or wait for another upgrade!
1) For the most part the user interface is the same. The update seems to have focused on improvements to the core app. For example the now playing list draws much faster.
2) It records many more shows from the suggestions list which is good. I bumped my tivo up to 100+ hours a while back and it used to record only 3-4 unscheduled shows a day. Now it graps something like 10 and really makes use of all that space.
3) TivoNet warning: it will overwrite all of your setup files if you installed a network card. Looks like its time to open the box again. :(
Here is what Tivo has to say about the update.
Improvements to TiVo's Suggestions
TiVo's Suggestions has gotten even better at finding programs you might enjoy. If your TiVo automatically records TiVo's Suggestions, you may notice improvements soon.
If you have chosen not to automatically record TiVo's Suggestions, this is a good time to try them again. You can automatically record TiVo's Suggestions again by going to TiVo Central > My Preferences > TiVo's Suggestions.
Even if you don't automatically record TiVo's Suggestions, you can always browse through them (and set up your own recordings) by going to TiVo Central > Pick Programs to Record > TiVo's Suggestions
Improved Data Downloads
Your TiVo can now record TiVo Service data from specially broadcast programs. It receives these programs automatically and will never cancel or delete your shows to get them. This means shorter Daily Calls. If you do not have cable as your program source, TiVo will use the phone line as always.
The special programs will be recorded about once a week, usually between 2am and 5am. If you watch TV at these times, the TiVo Service may ask to change the channel to receive a special program. While the TiVo Service will work if the special programs do not record, it's a good idea to allow such channel changes whenever you can.
Record All Episodes with Duplicates
Season Passes will not record a program if the program's description is long enough and matches the description of another program recorded within 28 days. This is called the "28 day rule" and is used to avoid duplicate recordings.
However, you may want to record shows with identical descriptions. You might want to do this if your child expects a certain program to be recorded every week, or if a program is pre-empted (e.g., for news or a ballgame in overtime) and the broadcaster airs the same program a week later.
You can now turn off the 28 day rule and record duplicate episodes by selecting a new recording option, "Show Type: All (with duplicates)." Just go to TiVo Central > Pick Programs to Record > Season Pass Manager. Select the Season Pass, then select "Change Recording Options." Change "Show Type" to "All (with duplicates)."
Of course, I'm simplifying things a little - there's quite a bit about the relationship between the green confetti and a yellow metal, and with the transmission of 'virtual' paper bits through thin metal wires based on symbols on a plastic chip, but that's an advanced lesson.
I hope this helps.
--
Damn the Emperor!
There's an article in either this or last month's Computer Shopper about how to build your own DVR for about $250. With an Athlon 950 and MB running for around $100 (including NIC, sound, no video), you could probably put together a non-subscription DVR for under $500.
About a month ago CompUSA had the cheap (in both senses) ATI TV-Wonder for about $20 after rebate. It can record decent quality with a fast drive and processor. The included Windows software includes some limited programmability, guide, and a multimedia center, so it's an inexpensive way to get your feet wet.
Unfortunately, the Linux drivers aren't quite there yet. I'm using Mandrake 8.2 with the xawtv package but am limited to watching TV and AVI/WAV capture.
With both, you're not paying just for the phone call, but you're paying for your software updates, and your listings.
Free Mac Mini
Instead of spending money on a tivo, go to http://sourceforge.net/projects/openpvr/
and get involved. when this is done, you'll be able to turn your linux box into something like a tivo for only the cost of a tv tuner card and possibly another hard drive.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is it encrypted?
The guide data probably isn't copyrightable. Phone directory data isn't copyrightable, nor are databases of facts. ("The standard of originality for copyright is low, but it exists." - U.S. Supreme Court)The formatted data may be copyrightable, but you probably want to get it out of TiVo's format into something more useful anyway.
Because TV listings aren't free. Consumers have to pay for TV Guide. Your local newspaper has to pay a supplier. And so does TiVo.
Plus, you're paying for engineers to develop things, such as Ethernet support.
rOD.
Rod Begbie done this, and he's not
What can't you do with it? They're very open with hacking, the only thing they don't like is when you hack it to steal service, but people have done it. You can put a network card in it, they have video extraction software. Of course without the actual TiVo software it's not that good, but you could re-install a whole new OS on it (LinuxPPC perhaps), you would need to write you own drivers probably, but you could do it.
The TiVo is really just a computer.. Hell, it runs Linux.
Free Mac Mini
Bought mine at a Kmart that was going out of business. Got it cheap, they didn't require me to subscribe. Unit is mostly functional without it, and I've had quite a bit of success pulling my own lists off of tvguide.com and the like.
I am doing whatever I want with it.
Just buy one dude.
Do you have any examples? For a while the backdoor for the 30sec skip (most TiVo users don't even like 30sec skip, they like the fastforward then jump back when you hit play feature better) but that feature was later returned, and it's still a backdoor function. It's not something that TiVo says they have, or is supported.
Free Mac Mini
Um, last time I checked, you are not obligated to buy the service. Without the service, your TiVo will just let you pause live TV or record at sepcific times. This only makes sense. Why should they provide ongoing services to you (the programming guide) if you're not going to pay them?
Uh... see, there are these things called PCs... you might have heard of them... get yourself a video capture card with PVR software, a big honkin' hard disk, and a good sound system, and you are good to go.
Asking for this is like saying "I won't buy a car until they can fly through the air." In reality, what you're really looking for is an airplane...
I have been interested in TiVo for a while now, but I have heard from several people that you have a life, or you have TiVo. Because it records things you might like to see, you spend most of your time trying to watch them. Is this the case for most TiVo owners, or only those with no TV willpower?
Uh, the relationship between the green confetti and the yellow metal no longer exists. As of a few decades ago. The green pieces of paper only have value because people generally agree that a certain amount of the green paper can be exchanged for a certain amount of stuff. Some people get very upset because they think they are giving up too much green paper in exchange for the stuff. Some people get upset because they can't get other people to give up more green paper in exchange for their stuff. This general disillusionment with the way things ought to be versus the way they are is called 'capitalism'. It's a horrible state of affairs, but it seems to be the best idea people have come up with so far about how to run things. Other ideas still exist, but have mostly fallen out of favor or are acceptable to only a handful of people.
You can find the the best information on this subject on the TiVo Community forums thread called "3.0 will (UN-)Support Broadband Connections. Its linked below.
. ph p?s=&threadid=54620
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread
I have two DirectTivo units and one regular Tivo unit. I primarily use my cell phone for everything and work did pay for my home phone line. When I lost my job I didn't replace the phone line thinking I could just program the one TiVo and let the DirectTivos get their information from the DirectTV. When I got a new job or Tivo released an update I figured I would get another phone line.
This worked fine for the standard TiVo. I had to program it to record like a VCR by time, but it continued to record manually. The DirectTivos however after 30 days of not connecting to the TiVo service refused to record anything even though they had TV listings! I was/am very mad at this and ended up having to get a phone line. They wouldn't even record manually. How stupid. I love my Tivos, but this was uncalled for.
I plan on writing Tivo but I doubt they will listen.
Old news. It's extractable. What you want, is for them to hold your hand the entire time. Good luck.
My 9th tee controller works with 2.5. I'm running 2.5.1-01-1-000 and haven't had my tivo plugged into the phone jack for months. Plus, I can telnet to it and copy mpegs from it, so it's obviously working.
I'm becoming very concerned with many companies these days not being satified with making a sale. And instead feel that they are entitled to a monthy cut of your income.
So you think TiVo should sell you the box at a loss and then provide you access to their TiVo guide services via a dial-up modem link at no charge for the rest of your life?
but I get pissed when companies get the attitude that once you are their customer, they can do whatever they want (raise prices
Yes, they can raise prices. You can choose to cancel the service if the prices get too high, but it's their service and they can charge what they want for it.
It is astounding how many people on Slashdot lack the business abilities necessary to run a lemonade stand.
I have a ton of business sense.
No, you don't, as you are about to demonstrate...
However I have a problem with a company that offers a "service" but not really a service but an over priced gimmick to sell hardware.
Since they lose money on each TiVo box that they sell, using the service to entice people to buy the box doesn't make much sense, does it? So much for your "ton of business sense."
I would have a problem if there was an alternative to the TIVO service, but their isnt, so they are linking a hardware product to a service that is not necessary.
Your "logic" is so screwed up, I'll just have to break it down via a list.
1. If the service is not necessary, why would you want an alternative?
2. If the service is just an "overpriced gimmick" that is "not necessary", why would that convince someone to buy the hardware?
3. Since the TiVo box can do little without the service, how is the service not necessary?
4. Since they sell the box at a loss and don't require that you purchase the service, why don't people just all buy the box and never subscribe to the service -- if the service is "unnecessary", "overpriced", and a "gimmick"?
A perfect analogy to this would be to claim that cell phone providers are selling you a service that is just an overpriced gimmick so that they can convince you to buy a $200 Nokia phone from them for $.01.
Yes it is. Its also the same product/company that apologized for doing so. On the next software update much of that convience was put back into place. There was never any functionaily removed. The recorder has always allowed you to manually record shows and pause live TV. The only people that were upset were the people who were not subscribing. The #1 complaint was the fact that everytime you hit the TiVo button, it'd ask you to subscribe.
Stupid slashdot lameness filter! A # was in front of every line of the following...
It's (un)supported.. Which basically means it works, but don't call Tivo's customer service about it. It supports TivoNet and TurboNet cards on series 1 boxes, USB->Ethernet devices on series 2 boxes (that have the Pegasus chipset), and serial over PPP if you can get it working.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Who the hell doesnt like the 30 second skip? It's much faster than using the FF to skip commercial breaks by popping this button about 5 times then pressing the replay button once or twice to back up 8 seconds each to the start of the show.
I have found that most people who claim not to like the 30 second skip are simply stupid and don't ever think of using the 8 second backwards skip to compensate for the inevitable overshoot. 30 second skip then rewind is a pain in the ass, I agree.
~GoRK
Wrong. If you opt out, the data, including the remote press data, never leaves your box.
Even if you don't opt out, the data is sanitized of any identifying marks before it leaves your box. The privacy foundation makes incorrect conclusions based on flawed methodology.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
See http://cheema.com/vcr/
I cannot release the source because I am doing some
related stuff at work and dont want to make them
unhappy.
So... in short...
You're cheap.
Lifetime Tivo Service isn't expensive. Especially considering that you can upgrade the box very easily (and cheaply) to take larger hard drives, ethernet, etc. if you're so inclined.
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
Actually, I always hoped that Tivo would partner with Rogers, and put out a RogersTivo that saved the direct MPEG2 streams off of digital cable.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Surprised no one posted this yet...
TurboNet Adapter $69.25
Works with Series 1 and DirectTiVos, slips right in, then the new 3.0 will autodetect it and install the right drivers. After installation, put ",#401" as your phone number and it will use the net connection from now on.
"TK-421, why aren't you at your post?"
Tivo spent a good bit of time ensuring that 3.0 works with TivoNet, TurboNet, and AirNet (or whatever the 802.11b thing is called).
Its rudementary support right now -- just allows your daily call to go over the net, instead of dial up. When Tivo "officially" adds support for interactive and multimedia content via a USB adapter to the Gen2 units, they will also support that functionality on the Gen1 units that have been hacked.
They have always offered just the box no service fee (monthly/yearly/lifetime) required. If by "mostly functional" you mean "operates a lot like a VCR, recording by time and channel, but not program name" then you are set.
If not, well, what do you expect? It's only with this final respin of the hardware that they break even on the cost! Before that they lost money and had to make it up on service (just like cell phones, satellite TV boxes, and many other things you buy service on).
It isn't supported as one, but there are all sorts of things that you can do to it...it's kind of a pain though. For that you are better going with OpenPVR, but you do lose the very nice UI that the TiVo folks have built (of corse if you like designing UIs that is an advantage...you can make a nice UI...)
Was this new ROM on standalone units as well. I'm aware that it is active on the DirecTiVo boxes running 2.5 or later, but I hadn't heard that it was also on standalone units. BTW, there's been a ROM hack for quite awhile now that effectively disables the software checking that the ROM does.
When you buy a cell phone, you can always drop service (assuming you ended or fufilled your contract and choose a new service provider).
That's actually not always true. Many cell phones now are married to the provider's network. In other words, company A's phones only work with company A's network. If you go to company B, you need to buy a new cell phone.
Also, unlike my cell phone company, TiVo did not lock me into a contract when I bought the hardware. But you didn't expect TiVo to subsidize the price of the unit and then let you buy service from someone else, did you?
The other PVR's seem to have no problems without charging for service.
They charge for the service up front, building the price into the unit. Just because it's not a line item on the receipt doesn't mean that you got it for free.
Tivo will have to do a lot more for me than what it currently does for $12.95 a month.
$12.95 just isn't that much money to most TiVo customers. It's not like it takes hours (or even an hour) of work to earn $13 each month. Having a unit that records every show that I ask for, watches for programming of the type that I like, and lets me enter a "wish list" of programs and movies to record at any time is easily worth $13/month to me.
Also I believe if you buy the lifetime plan it only gives life time service to that unit, so you're screwed if you upgrade.
That's because they lose money on hardware sales. They don't want you to pay $250 for a lifetime subscription and then lose $150 (wild-assed-guess) on each year when you upgrade to a new unit.
Nothing TiVo does requires a cable or satellite connection. In fact, it uses some kludges to enable it to work with a satellite box (and, I assume, a set-top cable box for digital cable).
The basic kludge enables the TiVo box to pretend it's a remote and control the satellite box. This greatly simplifies the process of synchronizing the two pieces of equipment (the TiVo unit and the satellite box).
But with over-the-air reception the TiVo box doesn't need any special tricks like that. (The same thing is true of non-digital cable, which just uses radio-frequency signals coming in on a coaxial cable, emulating over-the-air reception.)
Just think of TiVo as a digital VCR. It records shows just like a regular VCR. The advantages start when you want to play something while you're still recording it...or want to back up the tape without stopping recording...or want to continue recording while you watching something you've recorded at another time.
And then there's the TV guide features, which are more useful to over-the-air viewers than cable viewers (who probably have some similar service from their cable company). The guide allows a number of features which are not possible in a standard VCR, like choosing to record a show rather than a time. This means that if your local station changes the air-time of your favorite show TiVo automatically changes what it records.
I recently switched from satellite to cable on my TiVo and found some interesting features: As best it could, TiVo figured out how to record all of the shows I had previously recorded even though they had different stations and even different times. This saved me a lot of reprogramming time.
What TiVo is NOT useful without is the subscription to the television guide service. This is a little obnoxious, since it should be able to record by time, even if you are not paying the $10/month fee. Some of the more powerful features require the info provided by the subscription service, but those which do not require it should not be shut off if you decide not to pay the subscription.
TiVo works fine with POOTA (plain old over-the-air) television. In fact, it probably provides more benefits to people without cable or satellite. But don't expect that because you have antenna-based reception you can avoid the subscription. It just doesn't work.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
Due to it's ability to pause live programming, a real PVR records all the time, 24/7.
I doubt that your $600 homemade PVR will be able to do much of all those other things very well while it's pumping a GB/hour to disk.
So you are paying a lot more for less functionality. But at least you're not supporting the people who invented the product category and blazed the trail for the open source copy cats.
Well, I finally got my DirecTivo system - nice dish and a Philips DSR6000. Then the guy came over to install it and went "Nope, this won't work."
It's like in those Cable anti-dish commercials. "Yeah, you can get 150 channels for cheaper than cable. But first you have to chop down that 300 year old maple tree for us."
I personally think there's plenty of places I can get a decent view of the southern sky from, but apparently putting up poles or something doesn't work for the installers.
Oh well, I guess I'll send it back and get the much lamer IMO Series 2.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
Even with a standard Tivo, you can watch one program while recording another. There is an advantage over a normal VCR.
You can also watch 15 minutes of a show and then think "Hey, this is good I should record it", and Tivo will record it, including the 15 minutes you've already watched. That doesn't sound like such a great feature at first, but I can't tell you how many times I've got sucked into a program and my wife says "Hey, we gotta go do X". No problem, I just hit the record button and I can watch the show again from the beginning when our social calendar is taken care of.
The Tivo unit is being sold to you AT A LOSS. Tivo gives kickbacks to Quantum (the hard drive manufacturer) and Philips/Sony (the unit manufacturer) to sell Tivo's at a cost which will appeal to a customer. They recover this loss through the subscription. For $250 you can pay off the loss and get free programming for the life of that unit. The $250 does not transfer to another unit because that unit has also been subsidized.
I was in a similar boat, but decided I really wanted a DirecTivo (Records two shows at once off the satellite dish). After using Tivo for 6 months, I don't begrudge them their $10 anymore. The service is worth at least that for the convenience of watching what I want, when I want and skipping through the commercials and fluff. For example, I watch Jeopardy in about 15 minutes.
And last, but not least... It's hard to hack your VCR to give you a bash prompt. That has always been an appealing thing to me about Tivo. I love playing with hardware (I know I'm in minority, but still...)
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
Will users be able to download the mpeg files stored on their tivos via the new ethernet drivers? Or will Tivo making this "official" remove that particular abililty?
Actually, I watch the same shows I always wanted to watch, they're just 1/3 shorter without the commercials. And I don't ever watch the last 5 minutes of something that's on before what I want to see, or watch a show that's between two shows I enjoy just to kill the half-hour.
Plus, the TV fits *my* schedule now. For example, I'm usually out doing something on sundays now, rather than watching the simpsons or futurama (and the crap in between). I watch 10 minutes or so of the shows while i grab breakfast or with dinner (and finish the rest the next day, etc...), rather than watching whatever's on and then later also watching the shows i really want to see.
So, I watch slightly fewer shows, no extra "filler" i don't really want to see, and everything takes 30% less time to watch. All in all, I'm pretty damned happy with it.
It works with broadcast fine.
T
---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
Now if they gave you some options like manual record even if you nolonger have the service and set my clock options then people might not complain as much about the cost.
Or people might buy the boxes for less than TiVo's cost and never subscribe to the service. TiVo does not want the hardware to be useful to you if you don't buy their service. To them, the sole purpose of the hardware is to sell you the service.
I'm very interested in the evidence for this. If your source is Tivo, do they specifically say this or merely imply it?
Two sources. One is Tivo's privacy policy, which probably only implies that.
However, the second source is the source itself. Hack yourself a shell on the serial port and take a look at the dialing scripts. If the status of the box is set to "OptedOut" then the remote keypress data is wiped, not sent. Makes no sense for them to spend time sending something they can't use anyway.. saves them modem fees. The debug log is sent, but there's nothing of consequence in there anyway.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.