Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft's Guide to Accepting Donated PCs
An anonymous reader links us to Microsoft's Guide to Accepting Donated Computers
for Your School, which contains humorous statements such as
"If a company or individual donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that was installed on the PC. "
It's just an amusing little read that basically amounts to keeping the license
with the PC. Also neglects to mention the Naked PC discussed in this slashdot story.
...it'll be a good learning experience for the kids when they install a new OS...
"Hey, I want to donate this computer for the school's Beowulf cluster."
"Do you have the original disks that came with it?"
"Err, no."
"Sorry, I can't accept it."
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
We should write an alternative guide and provide these to schools!
Here's some ideas:
- You are under no obligation to accept any software, hardware or other parts provided.
- You may refuse any (software) licenses donated since you have not accepted them.
- You are free to reinstall any software to the machines provided that you aqcuire valid licenses for this software
- etc.
No, but the licence agreement with the copy of Windows that was installed on the PC almost certainly specifies that it can only be used with that PC.
What MS is saying is that it is illegal to buy a PC with, say, Windows 2000 pre-installed, then later give the PC away but keep the copy of Windows 2000. That would be in violation of the terms of the licence.
Now, personally I feel that that's a crock, but that's a discussion for another thread...
they are not requiring them to KEEP the OS, they are requiring that if you have windows 95 installed on it, and you donate the machine, you are donating your copy of windows 95 and can't use it anymore.
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
Q. How does the PC owner transfer their license rights for the operating system?
A. The GPL can be found here.
Q. What if the donor can't find the backup CDs, End-Use License Agreement, End-User manual and the Certificate of Authenticity? Can they still donate the PC and operating system?
A. It can be downloaded from here
- [grunby]
Of course it's outrageous and egregious! But then, taking legal advice about software licensing issues from Microsoft is like taking airline safety advice from Osama bin Laden.
Keeping the OS with the machine is the same thing as keeping those tags matresses. They are required to be on there if you are a company that sells matresses, but once an individual buys the matress, they can do whatever they like to the tag. It's their property at that point.
If they then give away or donate the matress, the lack of the tag really doesn't matter.
I'm really curious what law they are referring to when they saw "legal requirement". If they're going to say stuff like that, I'd like to see where it was written. Anyone can just say that something is "legally required". I can say it's "legally required" to mod all my posts up. That don't make it true, tho.
psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo
This might be a bit offtopic, but while we're talking about Windows "licenses":
If I were to sell or donate my PC to someone else and that PC has XP installed (which I activated using my name), what must I do to dissociate my name from that activated copy/serial number?
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
I've done work for about half a dozen schools (junior highs and high schools) that have quite substantial commitments to computers in the classroom.
;-)
In my experience, whenever donated computers arrive, that's all that arrives. I've never seen a computer arrive with the documentation that probably accompanied it when it was purchased by the donating company. All you get is the computer and associated peripherals if you're lucky (often they forget to send mice).
At one school, they have about 120 donated PCs, and I think there is maybe half a dozen valid Windows licenses in the whole place. Of course, there are numerous burned copies too, which makes imaging these machines really easy (thank you Norton Ghost).
I find it rather surprising that some enterprising person/persons haven't started to produce an educational Linux distribution... just pile on a lot of idiot proofing
People, out of their good nature, give computers to schools to help educate children.
Microsoft lie to the schools to try to stop them accepting generous gifts that might make a tiny dent in their massive profits. This makes me so mad.
It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain with a machine for the life of the machine. If a company or individual donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that was installed on the PC.
Is this true? Even for Microsoft operating systems? They're saying it's illegal to remove an OS from a computer, any computer? F*ck*ng w**kers.
PC owners have to transfer their license rights to the operating system to your school along with the PC. They may do so as specified in their End-User License Agreement (received at the time of purchase) as part of a permanent sale or transfer of the PC.
Listen Microsoft. You've made it very difficult so that I, as a PC purchaser, can buy a new PC without buying a Microsoft OS. You know that. So, 99% of computers that are donated to schools are likely to have a legitimate, paid for, Microsoft OS on them. You bunch of complete t*ss*rs.
The following should be included with the donation of the PC.
Why? I'll tell you why! To make it difficult for people to donate PCs to schools, that's why. I ***king hate those money grabbing, selfish, **bhe*ds at Microsoft.
Microsoft recommends that educational institutions only accept computer donations that are accompanied by proper operating system documentation. If the donor cannot provide this documentation, it is recommended that you decline the donated PC(s).
Why? So Microsoft can profit at the expense of the education of our children? You absolute ****ing *i*si*ng i*i*tic bunch of *uc*ing a**eh*les! *an** *a*s*** of the *i*** *rd***! You ****p** **s** **e*s*s!!!
If I build my own PC and install Windows on it, I can give it to someone else and keep the copy of Windows as long as I remove it from the PC. This article implies that it is illegal for me to keep my copy of Windows if even if I give away the PC without it. If I install Linux, I can keep my copy and give away the PC with the OS still installed. Their statement is only true for pre-installed Windows (i.e. Dell installed it) where the license is tied to the particular PC.
All copies of the software on original disk or CD, including back-up and/or recovery materials
Manuals and printed materials
End-User License Agreement
Certificate(s) of Authenticity
This is misleading, and encourages institutions to only accept computers where these items all exist (i.e. MS operating systems). Such is not necessarily the case if, say for example, I installed Linux over the Internet.
Yes, once the machine and installed operating system is transferred to your school or institution you own the PC and the licensed software. You can upgrade via Microsoft Academic Licensing Programs...
Oddly, they neglect to mention that this also only applies to Microsoft software. What if the donated computer is a Mac?
These sorts of things are like Halloween documents that MS makes public INTENTIONALLY! You'd think they'd raise some eyebrows at the DOJ.
... "Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the w
What MS is saying is that it is illegal to buy a PC with, say, Windows 2000 pre-installed, then later give the PC away but keep the copy of Windows 2000.
No. That is not what they are saying. They are saying that you must include the OS that was originally installed on the machine, per this statement on the page: make sure that the hardware donation includes the original operating system software.... it is a legal requirement.
This is a gross overstatement and misleading. If there is a legal burden when selling a computer, it applies to the seller, not the buyer. The buyer has NO idea what was originally on the computer and cannot be expected to know. The buyer never saw the original agreement, let alone clicked on the Accept button. In addition, if the original OS is Linux, BSD or other Free OS, there is no such agreement.
You can read your own motives into this.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Q. Why should a donor include the operating system with their PC donation?
A. It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain with a machine for the life of the machine. If a company or individual donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that was installed on the PC.
Ok, that sounds pretty dubious, but let's accept it for the sake of argument. Now on to the contradiction:
Q. Can I upgrade the operating system on a donated machine?
A. Yes, once the machine and installed operating system is transferred to your school or institution you own the PC and the licensed software. You can upgrade via Microsoft Academic Licensing Programs: Microsoft School Agreement Subscription, Microsoft Campus Agreement Subscription, Microsoft Academic Open or Microsoft Academic Select. Contact your preferred Microsoft Authorized Education Reseller for details.
OK, so which is it? Does the school license the software on the used PC, or do they own it?
If they own it, what was the status of ownership by the donor, prior to the donation? Did the owner own it? If he owned it, then he does not have to transfer it with the PC, since it is his property to do with as he sees fit. If he did not own it, how come the school becomes the owner when they accept transfer of the license from the donor? Does this mean we can "launder" EULA's by donating each other the PCs we wish to buy? Seems like receiving a donated OS with a donated PC is the way to own the OS instead of just becoming a licensee.
Edith Keeler Must Die
It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain with a machine for the life of the machine. If a company or individual donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that was installed on the PC.
Which law states this? A state law? Federal law? Decree of the UN?
What if I donate PCs that I built myself without an OS "installed"?
A "legal requirement" sounds very much like a scare tactic. If anything, you'd think they'd want the opposite - they'd want a school to get a bunch of PCs, but then REPURCHASE more Windows licenses 'just to be sure', upping MS' sales.
They pretty much get a sale for every PC in the US now anyway. I'd be interested to know what their license sales are per year vs the number of PCs sold that year. I've a hunch Windows license sales may be higher than PC sales.
creation science book
Get them using only Windows in school and watch what they will ask for at home.
:)
And the worst part about it is that they're doing it by making vague legal statements that threaten and coerce schools into doing MS's bidding. Schools have a tough enough time getting funding for things like new computers - now they're expected to turn away free gifts because these gifts aren't in full compliance with MS's virulent OS license? Do Macs require you propagate their OS with a Mac machine?
It just seems like with all the resources MS has, it could do better than making vaguely threatening statements towards schools that are just trying to make ends meet. Oh wait, I forgot, there's a link to MS's Academic Volume "discount" at the bottom of the page. Scare the school admins by making them think "crap, are all our computers licensed?" and then conveniently provide 'em with a link where they can get kosher again, for a price. Very nice, indeed.
Have mod points, would rather post rants. D'oh!
But what does my opinion matter, I just vote here. It's not like I have any money or anything.
Hold on.. so Windows sold on Ebay (e.g. transferring your licence to another user) gets Microsoft pissed enough to start demanding they be pulled off the listings, but giving your Windows copy to schools (e.g. transferring your licence to another user) is fine by them? Am I missing something?
slashdot!=valid HTML
Microsoft recommends that educational institutions only accept computer donations that are accompanied by proper operating system documentation. If the donor cannot provide this documentation, it is recommended that you decline the donated PC(s).
Says:
We like the idea of you donating, but we really don't want to donate ourselves. We do care, we really do. But remember an undocumented computer is worse than no computer.
-Sean
The Microsoft statement is that the preinstalled OS must remain with the machine throughout its lifetime. This is not true.
It is true that the OEM copy of the OS that came with the new machine is only licensed for use on that machine. Therefore, if someone donates you the machine, but not the OS, then you can't use the OS and neither can they. There is no requirement that the OS stay with the machine, though.
Microsoft is making false claims here in their efforts to simplify the matter.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
I am a landlord, and I own a two-family house. Recently online I found a guide written by a lawyer on how to be a landlord in my state. It is very well written, and one of the ideas that I got was this,
If you say that something is the law, and it isn't, the tenant can sue you for treble damages.
If you don't de-lead your house, and you let children under six live there, and you say to the tenant, "Oh, I'm exempt from de-leading because of this special provision / grandfather clause", then the tenant can sue you for misrepresenting the law.
So, I'm tempted to wonder if Microsoft can legally dole out legal advise that is prima facie incorrect and misleading. I would suggest the Microsoft's legal department take a look at the FUD for liability purposes.
If it can happen to me, it should be able to happen to Microsoft.
Yes, the license agreement of OEM software typically ties it to the hardware it was sold with. In other words, if you buy a PC with Windows XP installed on it, the license says that the copy of Windows XP can only be used on that PC (and the recovery discs tend to "enforce" that too).
This "guide" reverses the statement to say that the hardware is tied to the software. It says that schools should not (the baseless legal threats turn that into a "can not") accept donated computer hardware unless it includes the origial software with accompanying media and documentation.
That is pure shit.
Microsoft does have a program that gives a school a site-license for software upgrades, provided that the systems that they are installed on have a license for the original software. In other words, if the hardware has a license for Windows 98, the school can install their site-licensed Windows 2000 upgrade on it. If the system does not have an existing license, the school can not.
This is pure Microsoft FUD. I actually laughed when I read it the first time. Then I realized that some educator somewhere will read this and actually believe it and get rid of donated computers because of this. Microsoft is not trying to be charitable here by helping to prevent schools from getting into legal trouble. They're trying to take used computers out of schools so that the schools are forced to buy new ones and new Microsoft software licesnes.
Consider the following:
1) Take a machine install windows on it.
2) Take machine of #1 apart, evenly divide parts into two piles.
3) Put enough extra parts into each pile to make a complete machine.
4) Reassemble the 2 machines.
Now, which machine is the origional one? The one that got the hard drive, but not the processor? The one that got the floppy? Or have you just created 2 liscenses since each machine has equal claim to being the origional machine. This posture on the part of M$ is legally dubious, counter-productive and a total crock.
I have a question. A couple of years ago I purchased a computer with Windows NT preinstalled, and the first thing I did was reformat the hard drive and install Linux instead. I have purchased a new computer, and I would like to donate my old machine to a local high school's computer club.
I noticed on your website (http://www.microsoft.com/education/?id=DonatedCom puters) that you state,
"It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain
with a machine for the life of the machine. If a company or individual
donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating
system that was installed on the PC."
I do not even have the backup disks that came with my computer. I deleted Windows as soon as I received the machine, implicitly rejecting your EULA. Moreover, the computer club wishes to run Linux on this machine.
Therefore, can I not donate the machine that I own to the computer club? As far as I can reason, by completely removing Windows from it and destroying the associated documentation I have removed any Microsoft-related control over this machine.
Please clarify this for me.
Sincerely,
Brian Poi
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
but the difference is that if you strip a computer of its preinstalled M$OS, and instead install FreeBSD, then microsoft HAVE some ability to restrict you (the giver) from installing this spare OS on another computer, but they have absolutely NO ability to restrict the recipient from accepting the cleansed computer.
The licence doesn't have to stay with the computer, but it can't be used with any other computers. BIG difference.
Basically, microsoft are completely misrepresenting the burden of copyright verification, hoping (with reason) that educators will be too spineless to question the webpage.
In West Virginia, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation just handed the state department of education 16 million dollars.
In return, the state board of ed sold out the public schools.
They handed down a memo saying that all students *must* take part in a questionaire administered by the teachers during school time. One teacher I know estimated that it would take 20 minutes per student, given that there are issues with reading ability at the age of the students being given the test.
This questionaire:
* Was given online. Teachers were required to have Internet Explorer (not "a browser", Internet Explorer) installed on all school computers used in this. Cute way for a monopolist to propogate their products.
* Involved asking students the number and type of products such as camcorders and computers they have at home. Many parents are not willing to give out this information, so building profiles of families by asking adults doesn't work very well. However, when students, children, are required to take an questionare like this by a teacher, they don't have much of a choice, though I suppose they could lie if their parents have taught them the importance of privacy. Microsoft was given the go-ahead to repeat this study two and four years from this point in time. All results get sent to Microsoft.
* Was given during school time. Taxpayers spend enormous amounts of money to pay for *children to be educated*. State laws are put in place to require students to be in school *to be educated*. These resources are supposed to go to education, not to (in my opinion, rather invasive) Microsoft marketing studies.
* Finally, MS made another coup for those 16 million dollars -- they were given a right to appoint a consultant to conduct overviews and approve or deny technology education curriculum. Now, it's possible that this consultant is a totally objective person who really *will* choose Linux or the Mac OS over Windows, or competing office/database products over MS's offerings if those things are better choices in a given scenerio. However, I rather doubt it. This is traditionally a large Apple market, but in one fell swoop, MS cut the legs out from Apple throughout the entire state.
I'm wondering whether this is just my state, or whether this is happening elsewhere. Anyone else hear about similar things in their own states? I could be a new Microsoft offensive against Apple, or just something that's been going on for a while, but I feel more than a little uncomfortable with it, and I doubt any letters I write are going to quite measure up to 16 million dollars in terms of legislators' decisions.
May we never see th
The more you tighten your grip, Mr. Gates, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.