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SonicBlue Ordered to Spy on ReplayTV Viewers

Posted by timothy on from the surveillance-society-to-tracking-society dept.

An Anonymous Coward writes: "Got outrage? According to a story on SiliconValley.com, a federal magistrate has ordered SonicBlue to track ReplayTV users' every click to see what they're watching, recording, skipping (commercials) and e-mailing to friends. The info is to be given to the entertainment industry control freaks who are suing SonicBlue for allegedly abetting copyright violations."

18 of 426 comments (clear)

  1. Disney needs a boycott by woyouwenti · · Score: 4, Interesting

    First Disney sponsors Hollings bill. Then Disney does this to SonicBlue users.

    BOYCOTT DISNEY.

    Don't buy Disney products. Don't go to DisneyWorld, Don't go to Disney flicks.

    1. Re:Disney needs a boycott by teslatug · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Boycotts almost never work...can you imagine the kind of thought and commitement that would have to go into a successful boycot? No one will go through the process of actively making sure that they are not buying any Disney products unless they have a serious personal reason to do so. Unless Disney starts killing off some nerds, I don't foresee a boycott coming.

      The only thing that will work, is money, and the only way that we will pay is if it becomes easy and safe to do so. One way to do this is to send something like a $500 yearly check to some organization to hold (SLashdot can do it, they get to keep the interest and maybe even make more money through investing that money - sort of a pseudo bank) and every time something like this happens, Slashdot can have a money hammer on top of the offending Senator's head. One click of the hammer, bamm $10 bucks against him or her. Pool that money and somehow display how much money has been gathered so far so as to encourage more donating...MAYBE then something will get done through Slashdot. Any other way will not work.
      Boycotts will not work and letters will not work.

    2. Re:Disney needs a boycott by Wolfier · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't boycott, just PROTEST.

      Set up some Mic**y M**se parody web pages that spread the message, and let the whole Internet mirror them, until it shows up first on Google.

  2. Cable TV Privacy Act of 1984 by pgrote · · Score: 5, Interesting

    is slashing their own throats.

    It's an escalation of arms at this point. Total war. Never in our histroy have we been subjected to such comprehensive privacy invasion.

    It doesn't matter that the data doesn't say Mr. Smith watched such and such. The thought that the entertainment industry will have access to this data implies that they will use it against the viewers. Incredible.

    Maybe they should read what the court has said in the past about privacy and viewing habits.

    Here is the link to Cable TV Privacy Act of 1984

    Assholes.

    1. Re:Cable TV Privacy Act of 1984 by AJWM · · Score: 5, Interesting
      This gets interesting. Quoting from the Cable TV Privacy act:
      h) Disclosure of information to governmental entity pursuant to court order

      A governmental entity may obtain personally identifiable information concerning a cable subscriber pursuant to a court order only if, in the court proceeding relevant to such court order -

      (1) such entity offers clear and convincing evidence that the subject of the information is reasonably suspected of engaging in criminal activity and that the information sought would be material evidence in the case; and

      (2) the subject of the information is afforded the opportunity to appear and contest such entity's claim.

      Two key questions: does the unique identifier make it "personally identifiable" information? (I'd say yes -- a Social Security Number is a unique (well, almost) identifier, for example.) and even though the plaintiff isn't a governmental entity (unless I missed something), the court surely is.

      So, has the court offered clear and convincing evidence, etc? If not -- and seeing how this is information that is not being gathered at the moment, then the court seems to be exceeding its authority here, and should issue wiretap or search warrants for each subscriber it wants SonicBlue to monitor.

      I hope SonicBlue is appealing this.

      --
      -- Alastair
  3. Does this remind anyone of .. by shadowbearer · · Score: 1, Interesting

    "The suits allege these features effectively deprive networks of the means of paying for their programs -- advertising revenue. And they allow people who paid for premium programming -- say HBO's ``Six Feet Under'' -- to send it to consumers who haven't."

    Does this remind anyone of Senator D^H^H^H^H^H Holl^H^H^H^H 's antics???

    SB to advertisers: Boo Friccing Hoo. I've been putting up with your advertising on various media formats from TV to Internet for 25 years - and I HAVE NEVER BOUGHT A SINGLE PRODUCT BASED ON THAT ADVERTISING - simply because I am capable of deciding what I wish to buy and can do my own research.

    If I sound Pissed Off, I am. If your product can't sell to the people within your market who might actually look at, research, and make an intelligent decision on it, than I have no sympathy nor pity for you.
    Make a Better Product. Deal with it. The masses are waking up to your brainwash-style marketing.

    Get your crap off of the media I pay for! Welcome to the Internet Business Model - I pay for NO ADVERTISING, not MORE.

    (Yes, sad acronym, that - IBM = Internet Business Model)

    SB

    --
    It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  4. Re:Just let the bastards tax us! by dkleinsc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It seems, given the current political situation, that the 2% tax would pass, the money go directly to RIAA members, and the "free download" sites would mysteriously never appear. Remember, this comes from an industry that's perfectly willing to rip off artists and consumers (and I say this as a musician, not as a disgruntled customer), and I'm sure they're not above forcing everyone in the country to line the pockets of record company executives.

    Copyright law was intended to protect writers, musicians, actors, etc from being exploited by groups of people who want to profit off of mass reproduction of creative work. Record labels fit that definition exactly. As long as the people who put actual artistic effort into a work are payed, then it is a valid copyright system.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  5. Umm...Replay Hackers? by Will_Malverson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I know that there's a RePlay hacking community, though it's not as big as the TiVo hacking community. Anyone know how to completely mess up the data in my RPTV about what I've been watching and how I've been watching it?

  6. I guess we're all thieves by Fizzlewhiff · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had no idea that not watching commercials equated to stealing televison shows. My cheesy RCA VCR marks commercials after recording and skips them during playback. This has been around for a while. How does ReplayTV make it different?

    So what happens to people who have sent a copy of Six Feet Under to their non HBO subscribing friends? Will they get jail time for this?

    --

    'Same speed C but faster'
  7. And why does the industry care? by CptnKirk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Now I could be wrong, but get this. The industry has no way of knowing exactly how many people actually watch their shows. Sure based on a sample of people who agree to be polled, they're able to estimate. And based on these estimations they're able to charge for advertising.

    If you think about it, at this point they have their money. Nealson has already counted these views, whether or not commercials were skipped via conventional (bathroom) means or electronic means. I find is suspicious that these companies are now asking for this type of information. I could see the various companies who advertise complaining, but they don't seem to be. And if they did the TV industry would say that since taped views don't add to the ratings, those views aren't represented. So either quit bitching or we'll have to count those views in our ratings and raise rates accordingly.

    Either way I don't really see how the industries argument carries any weight. This is a game of averages folks and advertisers know this. Plus the industries accounting mechanism rounds for the industry anyway. I just don't see what their problem is.

  8. ObHeinlein by sconeu · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Quote:
    There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or a corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years , the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute nor common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped ,or turned back, for their private benefit.
    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  9. Re:a major dilema by nexex · · Score: 3, Interesting

    just run it through a firewall and filter whatever data it sends; err, would that break it? (i dont have one:))

    --
    Winter 2010: With Glowing Hearts
  10. Re:Childhood in America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Bear with me a moment can we speak in code?
    These words passed through some listening node
    This prior to your receiving what I upload
    Look you see the white van down the road?
    Transmissions scrutinized quick as they pass
    Live automatons charged with tapping that ass
    Tapping the phone for an evidence mass
    That includes when you talked about mowing the grass
    Force-locked eyes watch hypnotic light show
    Feel the oozing creep of gray matter outflow
    Not even knowing which way does the wind blow
    Been inside all day long how the fuck do I know?
    From the start they taught us all about democracy
    They said smile kids you're in the land of the free
    I know you weren't in the same schools as me
    But you think we heard a peep about plutocracy?
    Someone close by said, "Don't like it then leave"
    And there had to be a microphone up that sleeve
    The next thing that happened I couldn't believe
    The white van pulled up and it meant to retrieve
    Ninjas hopped out each had a mouse patch on back
    They rushed in the building prepared to attack
    Surrounded encircled my jaw went slack
    They said, "we're here to make sure you keep on track"

    T-Bone McGillacutty

  11. This is indeed very simple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Let's talk to our friends at ReplayTV. I can do a random access/programming/adskipping log generator for them. They will run it in their machines as a daemon and it will generate data as the real surveillance would, but inside some predetermined parameters. Easy, ain't it? It's the same as doing a Carnivore jammer... set up 2 machines in generating HUGE amounts of artificial network traffic, eliza-style ;) I've seeing it done in ISPs to "beef up" log analysis, and once in a private company to justify firing a guy. Hehehe. Is this wicked or what?

  12. That's how it's done in Germany! by jeti · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In Germany and other European countries, you pay extra for every CDR blank and similar 'taxes' on CDRW drives, PCs and HDDs are in the discussion.The money is distributed among the labels according to market share. The same system (different institution) is applied to printers and copiers.

    For the money I pay, I'm granted rights of fair use. I can make personal copies and I'm even allowed to share with personal friends. You can also use text excerpts for educational purposes.

    Oh - and it looks like we are also getting some DMCA-like laws that make it illegal to circumvent copy protection. Even if we're explicitly charged for the right to copy the content.

  13. Send to another Replay = Space shifting by alexhmit01 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have a Panasonic branded Replay 2000. I'm really intrigued by Tivo Series2 and Replay 4x00, but I can't justify jumping to this generation, I'll upgrade in generation 3.

    Now, one of the problems with the Replay and Tivo is that while you can conveniently time shift with them (great to not miss shows and have them waitting for me when I get home at ~9:30 PM), you can't conveniently space shift. When I move out of my dinky apartment and into a large apartment or small hour, I'll have more than one television. I then have the choice of building an advanced audio/video distribution system (which are VERY cool, BTW, but don't exist for DTV/HDTV and DD/DTS signals, just NTSC/Stereo), or placing a Replay/Tivo in every room.

    Being able to send from one ReplayTV to another in the house is a useful feature. It's part of an attempt to also sell multiple ReplayTVs to people. My understanding was that the shows could be sent over the LAN or Internet. LAN would be quick, a few minutes to grab the show, Internet would take a while.

    Sometimes my friends miss shows that I want. Sometimes my IR blaster fails to change the channel and grab the show. I'd love to be able to have someone send it to me so I can watch it.

    Ironically, with ReplayTV, I don't spend commercial breaks in the kitchen getting more food. It's probably helped me lose 2-3 lbs., reduce my television watching, and increase my commercial viewing. Sure I only watch really well done and funny commercials, but I used to watch no commercials.

    For any industry people watching, grabbing the last advertisements on action shows/movies may help. I got yelled at by the fiancee for over skipping and seeing the resolution of a cliff hanger then going back that we usually end up watching 1-2 commercials to avoid it.

    Alex

  14. Re:And So It Begins... by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... and start digging for incriminating dirt on every elected official you can find.

    Shouldn't you be digging up dirt on corporate executives? Lots of people have done things they aren't proud of, and some of it is probably prosecutable. Getting some VPs convicted under 3-strike drug laws could be lots of fun.

    --
    "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
  15. no right to business model success by cowtamer · · Score: 4, Interesting
    What I find most troubling about these Media Company vs. New Technology cases is that the companies are seeking legal protection for their business model.

    It is patently unfair to sue someone because they make a product that is _too useful_ (such as a PVR, mp3 player, file sharing program, etc.).

    The law is not there to guarantee the viability of a business model. If advertising fails, then use something else (such as product placement), but do not seek to destroy or block technology that gives the users more power. If I were to invent a car that ran on cold fusion, the oil companies would not have a legal case against me, even if I end up destroying their business model.

    Of course, this has not kept companies from trying to save their business model in the past. A good example of this is the "Red Flag" laws that were passed in the 1860s to block the automobile industry:


    As the world leader in steam propulsion during the 1860s, for example, Britain might have expected to pioneer many of the automotive advances that in fact were made on continental Europe and in America over the following decades. But British railroad and stage-coach companies recognized that the automobile was a threat to their future, and lobbied for the notorious red flag laws. These prohibitive laws, which insisted every self-propelled vehicle be preceded by a pedestrian waving a red flag, were on the statute books for 31 years. By the time they were repealed, Britain had missed a huge opportunity.


    (taken from http://www.dana.com/corporate/history/history3.htm . I have nothing to do with the Dana corporation!!!)