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SonicBlue Ordered to Spy on ReplayTV Viewers
An Anonymous Coward writes: "Got outrage? According to a story on SiliconValley.com, a federal magistrate has ordered SonicBlue to track ReplayTV users' every click to see what they're watching, recording, skipping (commercials) and e-mailing to friends. The info is to be given to the entertainment industry control freaks who are suing SonicBlue for allegedly abetting copyright violations."
My first reaction to that is "Damn! I can't believe they're doing that!" My second is, "Yes I can, it doesn't surprise me a bit."
If you expect the worst of people, you'll never be disappointed, but you can sometimes be pleasantly surprised.
jred
I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...
Where will this all end ? I read today that the entertainment industry considers skipping ads as "stealing" content that we have "contracted" with the networks to receive! These types are really getting up my nose. Excuse me while I go down to CompUSA for another 100GB drive for my downloaded mp3's :-)
Gotta pay 'em back somehow, huh ?
There are times that DDoS makes sense...
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Ok I'm stuck, do I avoid Sonic Blue's PVR's because it will invade my privacy, or do I buy PVR from Sonic Blue, because they are as outraged about this as I am. I suppose I could record all kinds of crap on it too, that would at least subvert their data.
Hmmm, maybe if we could get everyone to do nothing but record Tech TV for 24 hours as a protest of our privacy being violated.
Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.
This really goes back to what slashdot covered earlier how AOL-TW CEO said that PVR users were stealing when they skipped over commercials, but it also applies here... the users are not bounded to a contract to watch the ads.
It's also interesting to see the hypocrasy when AOL-Time Warner's CEO denouncing products like TiVO and ReplayTV while AOL is making deals with Tivo...
It adds somewhat of a twist when Sonicblue is ordered to infringe on its user's privacy and not TiVo.
Sigs are for losers
It may not directly say the users name, however acording to the article, all the data will be associated with a unique identifer for each viewer. I dont think it would be that difficult to find the way back to the origional user
The idea that a judge would order this is just sickening.
-Windchill2001 The One, The Only, The Cold...
Bingo. That is exactly what I was saying. It doesn't matter if it doesn't link someone's name with the data. There are ways around that.
So you're saying that I should pay $2000 a year for music/videos even though I have *never* purchased a CD and have *never* purchased a movie and only rent a few a year...sounds like a great deal to me. Communist.
When young, the media constantly warned that America should be ever vigilant for threats from overseas enemies who hated the American people.
Welcome to the new millenium. The enemy is wealth and control, they have no borders, and it appears they have won.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
... but as much as this pisses me off (the invasion of privacy part), isn't this exactly what the industry needs?
Seriously, once stats like this are collected, either they'll realize that this isn't a threat (and then really start pushing digital tv, stop suing companies like sonicblue etc..), or we'll be right back to where we are right now.
I understand the slippery-slope argument and all, but how the hell are you going to convince tv networks that piracy isn't happening unless you do something like this?
And if piracy *is* happening, wake the fuck up. It's illegal. You knew the free ride wouldn't last forever. Being able to freely copy anything you want isn't a constitutional right, even under the guise of fair use (which, by the way, isn't even established by the constitution).
You do not know anything about bussiness people. You think if they get a 2% tax they'll shut up? Certainly not - they will keep the money and try to find other ways to charge us with improved services. Oh yeah and that 2% will slowly increase as well.
Oh sry i just read that you were kidding. Still a bad idea imo.
The entertainment industry is fighting a losing battle here. Anyone who has purchased a TIVO or similar hard disk recorder will absolutely never go back to watching ads.
I personally have a hard disk recorder, and since having it I cannot stand to watch live tv, because I now percieve how much of my time is wasted by ads.
My guess is that eventually the entertainment industry is going to have to modify their revenue system, because no one will willing submit to ads again after being free of them.
What is interesting is that the TV industry will has a system allready in place that could be switched to an ad less system. All they would need to do is charge more for cable or satellite service, or something along those lines. They would probably be forced to take an income cut, because people will not be interested in paying very much more for ad less TV then they do for regular TV today.
If media corporations think they have a problem now, wait until hard disk recorders drop below $200....
They are facing a losing battle, just like the music industry.
Slashbots will all proclaim their hate for Disney, and will refuse to buy Disney products, right up until Miramax or Touchstone or Hollywood Pictures releases a film they want to see. Then, they will flock to the theater in droves.
How else do you explain the fact that a quarter of the stories on Slashdot are condemnations of the entertainment industry, and another quarter of the stories are slobbering writeups about Sci-fi movies or the X-files?
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times." Bill Hicks
About a handful of People make the rules in the usa, they are the ones who the representatives listen too, they are the ones with the deep pockets that get them elected. Maybe you should look at who is behind the company, instead of the company itself.
Sam Nunn
Donald F. McHenry
Donald V. Fites
Helene L. Kaplan
Franklin A. Thomas
Michael A. Miles
Carl E. Reichardt
Michael Eisner
Howard Stringer
You can boycott disney all you want, but until the top few people agree with us slashdot minorities you will have an uphill battle.
While I do no own a replay, nor do I know any owners who hack their systems, I do have doubts about the reliabiliy of the data being collected.
They have 60 days to build a database that reports all clicks, skips, and passes. I.e. in less than two months, they have to construct, test and distribute bug free software.
This I would love to see.
Why bug free? Do you want to explain that the reason that the database shows all of the comercials on all of the 4000 series Replays were the only material passed from one PVR to another, and that the data shows that the viewers were watching the comercials and skipping the shows, was a bug in the software? To a Judge?
If they pull it off, I will be impressed. If they do so without making it possible that even one of the pvrs could be hacked to start reporting the lowest rated shows as the only shows being recorded, I will really be impressed.
-Rusty
You never know...
I read this article which talks about Dick Wolf's (creator of Law & Order) philosophy about paying TV actors. According to him, people don't watch TV shows for stars, they watch it for the good writing, and he claims this is different than movies. But the studios don't believe it and are willing to pay the actors on friends 1 million dollars each. I'm not saying friends would still be popular if they were all suddenly replaced, but the fact is, TV studios, even now have pretty slim profit margins, so if ad revenues went down across the board, most likely actors' salaries would go down too, because profits couldn't get any lower. I think it's pretty sick how the government thinks they need to baby the TV and movie industries, as if they'd suddenly collapse without sticking to their age-old business model.
SonicBlue (and Tivo) laid the foundation for this sort of action with their EULA and origional policy of collecting user data ("anonymous" or not). They removed this functionality when, suprise, there was a public backlash. But by then, the damage is done. They have demonstrated the ability for those who would abuse it.
Enter the entertainment industry. Sure, I'm dismayed that a court would force this kind of action. But I'm sad to say I'm not shocked - we've all seen this kind of attitude from the entertainment industry and the legal and political system that seems to favor it, and these kinds of tactics.
But let us not forget that it is the current PVR industry (SonicBlue AND Tivo) who have created the industry standard that allows invasion of consumer rights. It is their short-sightedness that gave the entertainment industry this option to push for in court.
They created the slippery slope and despite their attempts to get off of it, they will now be forced to continue their slide.
Consider: A US Federal Court -- not some backwater municipal or state court -- has just ordered a wholesale invasion of citizens' privacy and personal information without a search warrant.
Consider further: This action was ordered, not in the name of "National Security" or "Anti-Terrorist Investigation", not on behalf of the government at all, but on behalf of a monsterously wealthy corporation bleating about "theft" and illusory "lost profits".
It has begun. The last bulwark against tyranny has been swept aside by a sitting Federal Magistrate without the slightest qualm.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I offer the following admittedly foolish, idealisic counsel:
Close your wallets.
Buy nothing.
See no movies. Rent no videos. Buy no music CDs. Purchase no computer software that isn't Open Source/Free Software (remember, the BSA members are in on this, too).
"But what do I do for entertainment?" Easy. Fire up your Web browser and/or go to your local government building and start digging for incriminating dirt on every elected official you can find. Once you find it, publish it. Read the dirt other people have dug up. Learn as much as you can. Discovering incriminating secrets about other people is endlessly entertaining, especially with that whole "betrayal of the public trust" angle going for it.
And once you've learned everything you possibly can about the people ostensibly representing you... VOTE!
Too many Attorneys General simply refuse to bring malfeasance charges, so relying on criminal prosecution to delete these people won't be very effective. Get out there this upcoming November and vote the bastards out. They are your employees. They are betraying you and selling you out. They are embezzling your earnings and selling your personal secrets to the highest bidder. Fire them. Hurl them out the door so fast that you can see a redshift on their ass.
Apathy about our government is a luxury we can no longer afford. We will only have one or two more shots at this before the courts decide that EULAs really are binding, that your property isn't really yours, that the monopoly of copyright trumps Freedom of Speech (q.v. Keith Henson) and Freedom from Unreasonable Search and Seizure (this case). At that point, we all become serfs, and, "Your papers, please," will become a phrase heard all too often in our places of work and our homes.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
don't you see that the problem isn't disney? the problem isn't the music industry..... There are fundamental issues here being persued to insane extremes by money hungry soulless corporations.
IF THE POPULATION HAS FREEDOM POWERS LOSES THEIR ABILITY TO CONTROL THE POPULATION.
IF YOU CAN'T CONVINICE JOE AVERAGE THAT HE IS WORTHLESS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE A SHINY NEW CAR THE WHOLE MODEL FALLS APART.
CENTRALIZED CONTROLLING POWER STRUCTURES ARE LOSING CONTROL.
the battle is coming, don't boycott disney, boycott it all! Throw away your TV, spend your time doing what YOU want to do and what YOU want to think about in any way that YOU can.
YOU have the power and create your own realities. Imagine what the world would be like if everyone realized this.
So it would appear that we again have a case of a company believing that they have a legal right to preserve their business model in perpetuity.
This is, of course, the same thing that the RIAA thinks: they've made lots of money in a certain fashion, therefore they are OBVIOUSLY entitled to the continued existence of that revenue stream.
Pure rubbish.
This is crap. Nobody in their right mind would ask VCR users to report back how many commercials were skipped, yet Sonic Blue is expected to comply with this from a judge. I'm not a PVR user, but I'm outraged at the sheer lack of respect this judge is demonstrating. I'm sure these numbers will be aggregate numbers, but honestly I think the judge should be given one of these and have his entire viewing habits made public record, including his thieving ways of fast forwarding through commercials.
They now have real damages to countersue for. I was going to buy one of the units (they really look cool) but now refuse to. I will not submit to this sort of monitoring. Period. They lost my sale. Am I alone? I am sending a message to this effect to privacy@replaytv.com, informing them of this and suggesting the countersuit. Maybe if they get more reports of real damages, a counter-suit will be filed.
.sig: file not found
I generally explain it as the odd concept of "individualism". Some weirdo right wing thing that tries to convince Us that We don't all think the same exact thing.
/. agrees with the political slant on it. I personally believe that the DMCA and related laws are likely to permanantly cripple the Western economy, just like religious laws did so in SW Asia (aka Middle East) and manufacturing-oriented labor laws have done so in parts of Europe. But that doesn't mean that everyone else agrees with me, and while I can try to convince them, I can't expect them to do as I would do.
Fight it. Discontinuity can only follow. If We are not all the same, society will certainly crumble!
Seriously - just because a story gets posted by the editors doesn't mean that everyone on
I think like many other laws, they start out assuming innocent until proven guilty, which is what this excerpt says to me, and now are more and more turning into guilty until proven innocent. The great reasoning here is that the accuser (Disney) can't prove the clear and convincing evidence unless the accused, SonicBlue, cooperates.
If only the rest of the justice system worked that way. The police, when not able to produce evidence that someone is engaging in illegal activity, would require individuals to wear tracking devices to prove that they're not doing anything bad.
I think this is exactly what's going on in this case, except the accuser will be able to get away with it.
Please subscribe to see the more insightful version of th
Well said! It irritates me whenever I read a post that assumes that Slashdot and their readers are all of one mind. We are not the borg collective! I hope we never will be!
Some people say: "Boycott Disney!
Some people say: "I'm going to watch whatever I feel like!"
And yet others say: "whut??" as they scratch there ass...
THERE IS NO SLASHDOT COLLECTIVE
I agree that there is no /. collective agreement on these issues, and really you can't fault thousands of people for not agreeing to the exact same positions.
But the onus on the editors is a little stronger - they are always making editorial comments about non-free software, restrictive legislation, civil liberties on the 'net, etc. Yet they also support the latest DVDs, movie reviews every weekend, and playing non-free games on their Windows partitions that they sometimes forget that they have.
So while you can't really expect the /. readership to agree on anything, I think it is more reasonable to expect the /. editorial staff to put forward a cohesive editorial policy on what they support and what they oppose. They have a "bully pulpit", but right now the message from that pulpit is sadly inconsistent. Until that changes, we won't be seeing any /.-launched boycotts doing any real good in the world.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
This is from Robert Heinlein's Life-Line and it is written in 1939! All the players change but it is still the same game.