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Viruses Enlisted as Nano-builders
Parsa writes "Nanotechnology is getting closer with genetically engineered
viruses grabbing zinc sulfide and arranging themselves into
highly organized structures. The
story is here at MSNBC.com."
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Gentlemen, the time has come for a serious discussion on whether or not to continue using C for serious programming projects. As I will explain, I feel that C needs to be retired, much the same way that Fortran, Cobol and Perl have been. Furthermore, allow me to be so bold as to suggest a superior replacement to this outdated language.
To give you a little background on this subject, I was recently asked to develop a client/server project on a Unix platform for a Fortune 500 company. While I've never coded in C before I have coded in VB for fifteen years, and in Java for over ten, I was stunned to see how poorly C fared compared to these two, more low-level languages.
C's biggest difficulty, as we all know, is the fact that it is by far one of the slowest languages in existance, especially when compared to more modern languages such as Java and C#. Although the reasons for this are varied, the main reasons seems to be the way C requires a programmer to laboriously work with chunks of memory.
Requiring a programmer to manipulate blocks of memory is a tedious way to program. This was satisfactory back in the early days of coding, but then again, so were punchcards. By using what are called "pointers" a C programmer is basically requiring the computer to do three sets of work rather than one. The first time requires the computer to duplicate whatever is stored in the memory space "pointed to" by the pointer. The second time requires it to perform the needed operation on this space. Finally the computer must delete the duplicate set and set the values of the original accordingly.
Clearly this is a horrendous use of resources and the chief reason why C is so slow. When one looks at a more modern (and a more serious) programming language like Java, C# or - even better - Visual Basic that lacks such archaic coding styles, one will also note a serious speed increase over C.
So what does this mean for the programming community? I think clearly that C needs to be abandonded. There are two candidates that would be a suitable replacement for it. Those are Java and Visual Basic.
Having programmed in both for many years, I believe that VB has the edge. Not only is it slightly faster than Java its also much easier to code in. I found C to be confusing, frightening and intimidating with its non-GUI-based coding style. Furthermore, I like to see the source code of the projects I work with. Java's source seems to be under the monopolistic thumb of Sun much the way that GCC is obscured from us by the marketing people at the FSF. Microsoft's "shared source" under which Visual Basic is released definately seems to be the most fair and reasonable of all the licenses in existance, with none of the harsh restrictions of the BSD license. It also lacks the GPLs requirement that anything coded with its tools becomes property of the FSF.
I hope to see a switch to VB very soon. I've already spoken with various luminaries in the *nix coding world and most are eager to begin to transition. Having just gotten off the phone with Mr. Alan Cox, I can say that he is quite thrilled with the speed increases that will occur when the Linux kernel is completely rewritten in Visual Basic. Richard Stallman plans to support this, and hopes that the great Swede himself, Linux Torvaldis, won't object to renaming Linux to VB/Linux. Although not a C coder himself, I'm told that Slashdot's very own Admiral Taco will support this on his web site. Finally, Dennis Ritchie is excited about the switch!
Thank you for your time. Happy coding.
Egg Troll
C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
Nanotech rather frightens me... one malicious "strain" (for lack of a better term) could have massive consequences - and how would we defend against it?
Hey, I could get my cyberwear on the cheap, this way. Just walk into a lab and snort the research. Excellent!
This now concludes our broadcast day.
According to reports, Microsoft is already leading the field.
This question is of particular relevance to the American readers: do you think the nano system will eventually replace the feet, miles, etc you are using? If yes, then when?
Wait until the nano virus mutates! Then where will we be!? UP SHITS CREEK WITHOUT A PADDLE THATS WHERE!
Here I am unemployed, and they're giving high-tech jobs to viruses. Talk about a hit to the self-esteem.
Who moderates the meta-moderators?
LOL...mod this up as funny!
Main Research Page
And yes, they have Movies, along with pretty pictures
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Isn't this how the Blob was born?
All technology has the potential for abuse and many have been abused for nefarious ends. The reality for us all is the same now as it was for Prometheus. Nothing ventured nothing gained. If you prefer Henry T. Ford..."No One Can Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come!"
We must be vigilant but we must grow. Our world is dynamic not static and we need the long view to ensure the survivability of human kind. Sure we could destroy ourselves if we take the fire....but....we will most certainly perish if we play ostrich.
Fortune Favours The Bold!
pharphetch
GINGERED VEGETABLE STIR-FRY
Can be prepared in 45 minutes or less.
3 tablespoons chicken broth
2 tablespoons Chinese rice wine or medium-dry Sherry
1 teaspoon sugar
1 teaspoon cornstarch
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 pound fresh shiitake mushrooms, stems discarded
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
1/2 pound carrots (about 3 medium), cut into julienne strips
1/2 pound daikon (an Asian radish), cut into julienne strips (about 2 cups)
1/2 pound Napa cabbage, sliced thin (about 4 cups)
2 large garlic cloves, minced
2 teaspoons minced peeled fresh gingerroot
In a bowl stir together broth, rice wine or Sherry, sugar, cornstarch, and salt until combined will. Cut mushroom caps into 1/8-inch-thick slices.
Heat a wok over high heat until hot. Add oil and heat until it just begins to smoke. Stir-fry carrots 3 minutes. Add daikon and stir-fry vegetables 2 minutes. Add mushrooms, cabbage, garlic, and gingerroot and stir-fry 2 minutes, or until carrots are crisp-tender. Stir broth mixture and add to vegetables. Stir-fry vegetables 1 minute.
Serves 6.
With Bill Joy's alarmist speil about nanobots replicating out of control, this is hardly good PR for nanotech. I mean, viruses? We're talking about the most evil self-replicating things we can find, throw them in with nanotech and it doesn't exactly make a good association.
Now I'm not particularly worried about these custom virii infecting humans, particularly if they're using virii that don't infect multicellular organisms (like the very cool bacteriophage virus). I think the laymen will, however, and the last thing I want to see if governments restricting nanotech the way they are clamping down on biotech.
Websurfing done right! StumbleUpon
Virii have the ability to reproduce, and can do so without paying any royalties to the MPAA, the RIAA or the ASA.
Whatever will they do about this?
bleeah..vom vom vom.
Can they GPL their technique, so they have a viral viral product?
If you continue to refer to them as "viruses", people will never support this sort of thing.
Its like the people who follow Bush on "cloning". Oh sure, some of them have legit religious opposition, but most blindly think that a "clone" is some sort of sci-fi copy of yourself, when in reality, a full grown human clone would be an identical twin, and a totally different person, except for genetic traits.
People are going to see virus and thing "little organism that kills" and we will never even get started.
I hate stupid people.
line up lots and lots of molecules to form me a delorean?
The film produced by this virus cannot be used in mass production yet. It is necessary to replace the virus with a conductive material in the finished product.
Interesting though. It seems we have a clear winner in the race between building smaller machines with smaller machines, or using biotech. Viruses are in!
Thanks for the link to msnbc.com in the writeup, I knew that site existed, but I had forgotten where it was over the last couple days. Much appreciated.
We've found that this is a reversible process, that you can completely disassemble and reassemble these films, which is interesting from a biotechnology aspect," So you can build something, and then have it come apart? Let's say you use this technique to build a chip that goes into a popular motherboard. Then you combine it with someone with waaaaay too much time. Next thing you know script kiddies aren't just threatening to melt your box, they really are! :)
Checkout their people page, and scroll to the bottom for pictures of some hectic research activity. These biochemists....
This story disgusts me. It's wrong for Nike and Adidas to enslave living organisms in countries such as Africa and Bangkok but it's okay for American scientists to do it? Hell, Nike and Adidas even pay their living organisms 50 cents an hour.
I say that we should negotiate labor rights with these creatures, let them have a 15 minutes 'osmosis break' every 4 hours, give them a good pay, and treat them with the respect they deserve!
mogorific carpentry experiments
If the make nanotubes, what happens when they get loose?
Doc: "Billy, you've got nanitis, you need to stay away from pregnant women and flash photography."
Billy: "Flash photography? You're kidding right?"
Doc: "You don't have to, but don't blame me if you explode."
Maybe that idea some indian tribes used to have about it bad to get your picture taken was right. Hey! There's a reporter here at my house to put me in the paper for this insight. You need a photograph for the front page? OK, what harm could it do? Wait... Noooooooo.........
*KABOOM*
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Mozilla test:
TEST
Yeah, that will change the image of viruses ;)
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
If so, it it out of line to say that nanites have crossed the boundary from S.F. and "wouldn't it be cool?" and into reality?
Now... they may not be general-purpose; like the first hard-wired digital computers, the structures they produce may be limited and not of immediate practical purpose, but it seems to me that these GM virues actually are nanites, and should be treated as such.
These are fearful times we live in. I hope our new friends like us :/
First, nothing begins if not opening
This story reminds me of article I read in Scientific American that says that Virus are being developed to be super-effecive anti-bacterial Agents that can target only a strain or two of bacteria.
It is only natural that we are using the simpilist form of life on earth to help us build technology, as viruses are (deadly) efficient. But when we start to inject viruses into humans, we need to modify them so they die soon and cannot reproduce.
None the less this could be a major development in world of Technology.
Medevo
Reprinted completely without permission from The Holland Sentinel. Story available here.
The days are few, the shoppers many at mall Local shoppers were out in force Sunday, but the atmosphere was still friendly
Last modified at 4:36 a.m. on Monday, December 21, 1998
By JOHN SPYKERMAN
Staff writer
Ron Nelson had a feeling that holiday shopping would be more laid back in Holland than back home in Grand Rapids.
Faced with the last weekend of shopping before Christmas, he packed his nephew and two sons into the car and made the 30-minute drive to Westshore Mall. What he found was a crowded but relatively relaxed shopping environment, and a chance for the kids to visit Santa Claus.
"Yeah, we took a chance," Nelson said before meeting his nephew Deontay, 5, and sons Demetrius, 5, and Chris, 2, as they finished their visit with Santa. "I knew (the mall) was opening up at 12, so we gave it a couple hours and headed on over."
Plenty of other people headed on over Sunday to Westshore Mall and other shopping centers, which were abuzz the last weekend before Christmas, even though the opposition of many Holland residents to shopping on the Sabbath kept Sunday's crowds smaller than Saturday's.
"It's pretty hectic," said Joe Barends, an assistant store manager at the Holland Target. "Normally in Holland on Sundays it's a bit slower -- you tend to let your guard down."
Retailers across the country have complained that warm weather got the holiday shopping season off to a slow start, severely dampening sales of such Christmas staples as coats and sweaters. While the temperature has turned cold, some shoppers said Sunday it's still hard to get into the Christmas spirit given the weather.
Sally Laseur from Fennville said it's been a little hard to decorate this year with the lack of snow. Still, she said, it couldn't be Christmas without that last-minute rush for presents.
"It's kind of hectic here," she said, trying to keep her 1-year-old daughter, Genesis, and friend, Tyler Diaz, from wandering off into the swarm of shoppers bustling through Westshore Mall. "Trying to get a stroller was bad -- they're completely gone."
Target's Barends said that sales have been very good for his store for the most part.
"We've sold a lot of toys, a lot of electronics," he said. "Clothing is a little down. Jackets and flannels have been a little slow, but sweats are selling like crazy."
With Christmas a heartbeat away, retailers are counting on many shoppers who still have much of their gift-buying left to do. Last year, the three biggest shopping days of the year in terms of sales were Dec. 20, Dec. 22 and Dec. 23, according to the International Council of Shopping Centers, a New York-based trade group.
Knowing that the last week of the season is so crucial, almost every national retailer stepped up their promotions over the weekend. The biggest markdowns came in apparel, with merchants eager to unload some of the clothes that have sat on shelves for weeks during the warm spell.
Kathleen Fent from Holland tried to take advantage of one of those sales Saturday and put the holiday shopping season behind her. Unfortunately, a too-small sweater sent her back to the mall for one last visit on Sunday.
No fan of holiday crowds, Fent was looking to get in and out as quickly as possible Sunday afternoon, even if crowds were somewhat smaller than Saturday's masses.
"Yesterday it was like I was going to go postal," she said. "Today, I want to leave now. I hate screaming kids."
The Associated Press contributed to this article.
Copyright 1998. The Holland Sentinel.
If they limited their attacks to bacteria, we could still be in serious trouble. The entire ecosystem depends on bacteria. Without bacteria there is no "dust to dust." On a more personal level, the "good" bacteria in your innards don't provide nutrients (that I know of, being an ignorant techie, not a scientist), but they do other things for you like keep their nasty cousins from eating you alive. We'd also be in trouble without the cyanobacteria ("blue-green algae").
Recently, a friend that works at a prestigious laboratory noted that they saw a very strange pattern of xenon atoms on top of a palladium plate. Assuming that it was a joke perpetrated by a coworker, it was never reported. While mostly illegible, he was able to make out several words.
"We not slaves, ugly bags of mostly water."
Both of us were perplexed, if it was a joke, we didn't get it.
...You're dying! Oh, that's right--death does not scare you....just like every idiot....anyway, nano has great possibilities for curing death...why do I bother?
This post is protected under the DMTA (Digital Millemium Trolling Act). It is illegal to moderate it as a troll.
If I start seeing yellow butterflies, I'm going to be real pisssed off.
The viruses formed a film that was strong enough to be handled with forceps. The organization of the film suggests to me that it would make an excellent substrate for a conventional hard drive or even solid state mass storage.
The chances of someone making a virus capable of killing all bacteria....the odds against it are so astronomical its not even funny. The natural variation in the bacterial community makes all us multi-cellular organisms look like a JOKE. I see people talking about the possibility of us wiping out certain species (big carnivores especially) and yes, its there, they (big cats, sharks, etc.) have been decimated by humans inpact already, leading to geneticly weak (undiverse) communities, but there's not a damn thing would could ever make that would kill all bacteria.
For those of you Slashdotters reading this and wondering how you control a group of viruses and make sure that they don't run rampant, you might be interested in this article on a DNA computer. The software, hardware, everything is made of biological material.
Simply use the virus's DNA as part of the computer and manipulate it to do whatever you want. It's small and effective, as far as I can see.
Marketing possibilities are also opening up. Can't you just envision Intel start making these viruses and/or DNA computers, show someone swallowing a test tube full of 'em on a commercial, and have him wear a shirt, "Intel Inside"? Horrible humour, I know, but so was a lot of the Blue Man Group commercials after the first two.
Anonymous Coward: (n.) 1. nerd at school or library. 2. karmawhore in training. 3. embarrased prep.
In late breaking news, the terrible scourge of nanotechnology has come to bear upon humanity. Even now, our governments are under attack from microscopic organisms which mean to destroy us. May God help us all.
*reads a piece of paper just passed to him*
And in other news, let me be the first to welcome our new Nanite Overlords.
Indeed, I may be remembering incorrectly, but weren't there bacteria found in space (Or on a crashed bit o' rock)?
At any rate, what with the amount of diversity and adaptability of bacteria, I think even if the Earth exploded into small cubes, suitable for stewing, that we still wouldn't be rid of bacteria.
very cooooool
When I first read the title, I thought that we were dealing with another computer virus like Klez. Who wants a computer virus building hostile nanotechnology in their computers that crashes them or spies on them? (I know this is not possible today. This is meant to be a joke.)
The title should have use the word "Biological" in front of "Viruses", considering that this board is Slashdot, a board that mainly deals with computer stuff.
I don't really see how this is fundamentally a novel concept...I mean viruses and bacteria have been operating on these scales forever, they've been manipulated for decades... It is interesting to hear that they're being used in a manner not dissimilar to earlier self-assembly techniques.
The line about disassembly is interesting, though. If this is self-dissasembly and reassembly, wow, that makes for some interesting possibilities. Kind of like a ship-in-a-bottle, you could get devices into places with no route for the whole object...does your bladder need repair? Stick a catheter in, pump in whatever solution the nanotech-viruses need to operate, pump in the viruses, and let them build the surgical tools, then take them apart when they're done. Better than laproscopy (sp?), we could be talking about surgery through a syringe.
I'm sure this could also be used for evil, as well...
If a bite from genetic-engineered spider makes that guy did what he did,
just imagine what you can do if you get infected by this virus...
I remember an old 1968 or 1969 Marvel comic either Fantastic Four or Iron Man comic where the main character had to build a device and uses conducting microbes, program to move to a certain place and die. This created the layout of this device to activate some gateway. It may have been the Fantastic Four with help from Tony Stark.
As if most people weren't already scared to open the case of their computers... now they'll think that they'll not only break it, but that they'll get sick too.
This may actually make tech support easier, if more morons were afraid to pop open the case.
For instance:
Distance: nanofurlongs (10^-9 furlongs, or 10^-8 chains)
Liquid measure: nanohogshead (2*10^-9 liquid barrels)
Quantity: nanogross (1.44*10^-7)
Weight: nanostone (1.4*10^-8 U.K. pounds)
also used:
1 nanoscruple = 2*10^-10 grains (or 2 Ånggrains)
1 nanodram = 3.2*10^-10 grains
1 nanogill = 2.5*10^-10 nanopints
1 nanoacre = 1.6*10^-7 nanosquare rods
"Millions of viruses in solution can line up and stack themselves into layers, creating a material that flows like a liquid but maintains an internal pattern. By changing the solution?s concentration or applying a magnetic field, scientists can force new patterns and create different liquid crystal structures."
Does this not sound like Terminator 2 to anyone?? Liquid robots anyone? Very cool concept, but also slightly scary.
"Actually, the comensual bacteria in our guts do produce most of the vitamin-K..."
Thanks for this piece of knowledge. Now I am a slightly less ignorant techie.
As for the other comment by the Anonymous Coward, I wasn't implying some virus or nano would kill ALL bacteria. If it hit even one strain, depending on which species, it's conceivable that the result might be ecologically troublesome.
Is it possible that she hasn't learned of the word "width"? Is our educational system in such God-awful shape that such things as this could happen?
Enby in Waltham
Lets hope we dont end up having to feed our CCD sensors in the future, you know, "Pick up some Purina CCD Chow...!"
You wanna talk about nano stuff, you gotta get the word from Steve Gibson. He's the only guy what knows about Micromolecular Prophylactic Filter Technology and stuff like that.
radsoft.net