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Photonic Structure Increases Light Bulb Efficiency

An Anonymous Coward writes "A new experimental microscopic tungsten lattice can increase the efficiency of an incandescent electric bulb from 5 percent to greater than 60 percent. This is done by converting waste heat into visible light. "

87 of 226 comments (clear)

  1. Question by friday2k · · Score: 2, Troll

    According to the article "The work was performed with a photonic crystal operating in the mid-infrared range". Though the author states further that there are no known obstacles to downgrade into the visible light range, why did they start in the Infrared spectrum to begin with?

    1. Re:Question by ErikZ · · Score: 3, Funny

      IR seems to be the first thing people get when they're working with things that produce light. I believe IR LEDs were the first LEDs, and IR lasers were the first light emitting lasers.

      Second, I love this. They don't even have a THEORY on why this works. It just does.

      Third, If they get it working in the visible light spectrum, they'll have a bulb that's SIXTEEN time more powerful than tungsten bulb.

      That's one hell of a flashlight. I'll call mine "Little Boy". I promise to only use it in self defense. And to start small fires.

      --
      Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
    2. Re:Question by stinkydog · · Score: 3, Informative

      Infra Red is a lower (longer) wavelength than visible light. It makes sense to get it to work at the lower (probally easier) wavelegnth and then 'take it up a notch' into the visible spectrem. This is exciting for it's energy efficiency and the fact the light remains a point source (good for fixture design).

      I wonder how the matrix holds up as the tungsten evaporates from the filiment?

      SD

      --
      âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
    3. Re:Question by maraist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My understanding is that they said that IR-frequencies are synonymous with "heat". They frequently used the term black-body radiation. I remember IR-HEAT being associated with green-house effects; the angle of refraction is low for IR and glass, for example. So when sunlight enters your car (at a direct angle), it bounces off things but hits the glass on the inside at too great of an angle, and thus bounces back inwards, amplifying the total heat.

      Not that I'm satisfactorily answering your question, but throwing out some food for thought.

      -Michael

      --
      -Michael
    4. Re:Question by nicktook · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seems to me the heat does not build up. That seems to be the point. Obviously some heat is produced but if the filament does not get very hot then the tungsten should not evaporate. The bulb may have a very long life.

      The article leaves a lot of unanswered questions. I suspect the scientists are more interested in the phenomemom than its practicality.

    5. Re:Question by maraist · · Score: 5, Informative
      Second, I love this. They don't even have a THEORY on why this works. It just does.


      Well, I'm an undergraduate Electrical Engineer, so I only have superficial understandings of how semi-conductors interact with light, but it doesn't seem too great a stretch of the imagination.

      First, semi-conductors work based on the principle of the band-gap (which they even mentioned) (correct me if I'm wrong with any of this, I'm doing it straight from rusty memory).

      A little background:
      The outer 8 electrons held by an atom are the most important (the valence) - They are responsible for the bonding of other atoms. The configuration of all the electron orbitals in free space is nicely geometric; the first two electrons form a spherical shell (s-shell), the second 6 form dumb-bells in each of three axis's (p-shell). These types of configurations affect the geometries of the connection of the atoms. Configurations get more complex as the number of electrons grow (which is somewhat independent of the atomic number (number of protons), but such ionized atoms are unstable; especially when the number of electrons differs dramatically from the #protons). The important thing to understand here is that each additional electron takes more energy. Instead of worrying about the geometries, you can plot each electron orbital at a different (successively higher) energy level. Different atoms (characterized by atomic-number and even, to a small degree, the number of neutrons present), have differing characteristic energy-levels. The discrete nature of atoms includes the probabilistic nature wherein electrons have an extremely high probability of occupying the exact energy levels (which can be thought of as the distance away from the center of the nucleus). There is a chance that an electron will pass through any point around the shell of an atom, but it's highly unlikely that it will deviate from its characteristic point.

      But, since different atoms have different characteristic levels, warping an atom will warp its points. Warping can occur by simply placing two atoms near each other (such as in an ionic or covalent bond). As it happens, when you squeeze atoms closer and closer together, the discrete lines that represent the energy levels start to merge together. Eventually the 8 outer valence bands merge into one continuous band... As you squeeze them even closer together, this band breaks into two continuous pieces. As you get even closer together, these pieces get further and further apart (I would presume that eventually one of these bands starts to merge with preceding energy levels, but that's not relevant here). This gap of continuous energy levels is called the band-gap.

      As it turns out, in perfectly bonded atoms (those where every electron in the valence layer are bonded, and each atom has exactly 8 outer electrons; such as carbon, Silicon, etc) we have a total of 4 electrons that fill the inner continuous shell and 4 electrons that are void in the outer continuous shell. BUT, that outer shell is looped across neighboring atoms. When a diamond-lattice is organized (which is as close as you can possible get multiple atoms to sit next to each other), you have the greatest band-gap you can get for that particular element. Different elements (or even molecules) that can form the diamond-lattice will have differing characteristic band-gaps. What we have here are 4 electrons that are tightly tied to a core atom, and 4 potentially absorbed electrons that can freely be shared across every single atom in the entire crystalline lattice. In semi-conductor crystals, the problem is that every electron is accounted for so there are no free electrons to put into the outer band (which could roam free as current through an almost zero-resistance substrate; due mostly to quantum effects). Impurities are therefore inserted into the crystalline lattice which act as ionic donators of electrons or ionic acceptors of electrons (namely atoms not in the 4-column of the periodic table). Thermal excitation (heat) causes an electron to be ripped from donor atoms and those which are then quickly swept up in the outer-most continuous band.

      Normally, electrons must have a precise energy-value in order to live in an atomic orbital. When an atom absorbs an electron, it gives off a photon of the remainder of the energy. To change orbital-levels, it has to accept a photon of exactly the correct amount of energy. It can accept a larger energy photon, but it will again give off the remainder of energy. Eventually that excited electron will fall back to its lower energy level, giving off another photon which will have the exact energy as the distance between the two energy levels.

      In the continuous region of these silicon atoms, excitation between energy levels isn't apparent, since an electron can have any value within the region. The only difference is that separating the band gap... An electron from the inside can jump into the outer band if it's given at least enough energy to make the jump... This gap is usually enormous for semi-conductors. I believe its 1.2 electron Volts for Silicon, and 10 electron Volts for Carbon. The 1.2V is within the range of thermal excitation. That means that heat (in the form of vibrating atoms in the crystal) is enough to shake an electron free; e.g. jump the gap (like water successfully spitting to the lid of a boiling pot). In carbon, however, room-temperature heat is no where near enough to make the jump. This property (along with others) is why we don't use carbon-based semi-conductors. Germanium and silicon are much more practical in our particular earth climate.

      There is another aspect to the band-gap that is relevant to our discussion. Each electron has not only an associated energy, but a quantum-form of momentum. You must not only have conservation of energy, but conservation of momentum. I'm a little fuzzy on this topic, but this momentum is represented by the letter k, and we can plot energy verses k for different things. For semi-conductors, we get parabolas, and inverted parabolas, but with discrete points. This says that while we have a continuous set of energy levels within a region, we have only a certain set of allowable energy+momentum values for the electrons. And like the discrete energy levels of atomic orbitals, you can only have one electron occupying a given state. In a rather unfulfilling way, I'll stop talking about things that I don't fully understand and simply say that this multitude of characteristic parabolas says that in order to have an electron jump, you have to not only have a precise amount of energy absorbed or emitted, but you have to be able to transition your momentum somehow. Energy transition occurs through photons, and momentum transition occurs through phonons - which is energy present in lattice vibrations (e.g. packets of heat).

      Gallium arsenide is an example where the lowest point of the upper parabola and the highest point of the lower inverted parabola are aligned with respect to momentum. This means that the smallest amount of energy needed to make an electron jump the gap requires zero change in momentum. Because of this, gallium arsenide crystals easily will easily absorb or emit light with no dependence on the heat of a lattice. For this and other reasons, GaAs is great for laser diodes. Silicon, on the other hand requires a momentum change for its lowest energy transfer. Thus lots of heat is generated and absorbed; (Not to mention that silicon doesn't conduct heat as well as some other semi-conductors).

      Given this superficial description, what I get out of this is that heat of a certain resonant point (in the form of vibrating atoms in the crystal) could provide the proper momentum shift needed for efficient electron excitation. You'd still need to provide photonic energy for the transition, but you'd have a perfect combination of heat + light absorption. Eventually (due to statistical decay), the electrons would fall back to their lower-energy-level states. But they'd give off light of specific frequencies.

      Putting all this together, my initial impression from the article was that that the tungsten injection into a silicon substrate change the characteristic e-k curves enough to absorb the phonon-heat generated by IR light. The result is a 60% efficient absorption of the heat + light (e.g. nearly perfect efficiency). That energy is retransmitted as diode light (e.g. an exact energy level transition, producing a constant level of energy photons, which requires an equally constant frequency of light).

      What I don't know at the moment is if this is actually emitting mono-chromatic light, or if a multitude of frequencies (e.g. white-light) permeates. The only way I could see white-light emitting is if the standard tungsten light-bulb is making it, and the Tungsten semi-conductor is amplifying a particular frequency.
      --
      -Michael
    6. Re:Question by maraist · · Score: 5, Funny

      Damnit.. Forgot to append the best link in the world that describes this in detail.

      Britney Spearse Guide to semiconductors

      --
      -Michael
    7. Re:Question by 26199 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you'll find operating in the infra-red range was the point - it absorbs what's in the infra-red range, which is good, because that's what you want to get rid of.

      The absorbed energy can then be re-emitted at visible wavelengths...

    8. Re:Question by Dyolf+Knip · · Score: 2
      The bulb may have a very long life.


      Yeah, I thought of that too. These bulbs would be able to produce the same light running on far less electricity and last practically forever. Guess those florescent bulbs are doomed now.

      --
      Dyolf Knip
    9. Re:Question by dublin · · Score: 2

      That's one hell of a flashlight. I'll call mine "Little Boy". I promise to only use it in self defense. And to start small fires.

      Yeah, I always wanted a flashlight strong enough to kick when you turn it on... ;-)

      --
      "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
  2. Sorry.. by petis · · Score: 4, Funny

    couldn't resist:

    Q: How many programmers does it take to change a broken light bulb?
    A: None, it's a hardware problem.

  3. Re:Efficiancy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
    How else do you improve the efficiancy of something!

    Where I work the beatings usually continue until the morale and efficiency improve.

  4. Or you could just buy a flourescent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here now, 600% more efficient than normal bulbs and also getting very cheap. They also switch on more gradually, making them less painful on the eyes.

    1. Re:Or you could just buy a flourescent by Moderation+abuser · · Score: 3, Informative

      They last longer too. Just had one fail, for the first time in 5 years. It was a bit of a shock, I can tell you. I'd forgotten all about buying replacement bulbs.

      --
      Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
    2. Re:Or you could just buy a flourescent by jcr · · Score: 2


      There's a downside to fluorescent tubes. They flicker at the power-supply frequency.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    3. Re:Or you could just buy a flourescent by Moderation+abuser · · Score: 2

      Um, and you're saying that incandescents don't?

      I've replaced all my regular bulbs with fluorescent bulbs and there's no perceptible flicker. They have little bits of electronics in the base of the bulb which stops them flickering.

      Go read: http://www.fujilite.com/product-features.htm

      --
      Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
    4. Re:Or you could just buy a flourescent by gclef · · Score: 2

      I did this (put flourescent lamps in a few rooms), and after a few years of experience, I have one main observation:

      The light from flourescent lamps sucks.

      What's ended up happening is that I use the lamps with "normal" bulbs more than the flourescent ones, because the light just annoys me less. I understand that the fluorescent ones are more efficient. That's why I bought the lamps in the first place. The light that they emit, though, is harsh, cold, brittle and annoying. So I find myself avoiding them.

      Given that the electricity difference in my monthly bill in negligable, I choose comfort. Until that equation changes, I don't think fluorescent bulbs are going anywhere.

    5. Re:Or you could just buy a flourescent by norton_I · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, incadecent bulbs flicker at 120 Hz (both the positive and negative current phases heat the filament), but only by a few percent. It is easy to see with an oscilloscope, but not perceptable.

      Every flourecent bulb I have seen flickers by almost 100%, and while it is not usually visible unless the bulb is failing, can still cause fatigue.

      Much more importantly is that incandecent bulbs have a more natural color spectrum than most flourecents, since they work by black body radiation. I don't know why the "full spectrum" flourecents are not more popular, but they can really make a difference.

    6. Re:Or you could just buy a flourescent by Com2Kid · · Score: 2

      from my experience (and I'm no expert) I've never known icandescent or flourescent to noticably flicker

      Bull shit, if somebody installs them incorrectly or the mounting is cheap, the damn flouros flicker like a son of a bitch. The ones in my computer room create a strobe light effect that actually fucks up your perception of moving objects. Not to mention is fucking up my eyes more and more every day.

      Floros are also HORRID to have around computers, not a good thing, especially if they are in really close proximity.

      They also have this shitty ass tinting to them that makes doing any sort of color sensitive work under them suck (not that incan's are much better, but floros have a much worse color distortion problem).

      I want a LED light array, oooh yaaah. The higher quality ones are about as close to pure white as you are likely to get, and oh yah, they will likely last you longer then you will live, or at least a significant percentage of that time. Sweet.

    7. Re:Or you could just buy a flourescent by Ioldanach · · Score: 2

      Here now, 600% more efficient than normal bulbs and also getting very cheap. They also switch on more gradually, making them less painful on the eyes.

      If this works, then the new incandescents will be 1200% more efficient than normal incandescents. But the article says 60%, you say? It also says that current tungsten filament bulbs work at about 5% efficiency. Thus, .6/.05=12, or 1200%. (Implying, of course, that the efficient flourescent bulbs you refer to are 30% efficient.) I'd like to note, though, that white LED bulbs are also very efficient, and the 144 LED Medium Base Floodlight Bulb listed here, for example, is (assuming 5% efficiency for its incandescent cousing) 62.5% efficient, or twice as good as its flourescent cousin. It takes only 12 Watts to generate the same as a 150 watt tungsten incandescent.

    8. Re:Or you could just buy a flourescent by ShavenYak · · Score: 2

      I'd like to note, though, that white LED bulbs are also very efficient, and the 144 LED Medium Base Floodlight Bulb listed here... takes only 12 Watts to generate the same as a 150 watt tungsten incandescent.

      And for the low, low price of... $698.00. I'd rather spend $18 on a 24 watt fluorescent which will be just as bright. It would take a long, long time for it to use enough electricity to have made the LED bulb a better deal.

      --

      Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
  5. Yeah .. Tungsten.. by k98sven · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The coolest element of them all..

    If you don't belive me read the book "Uncle Tungsten".

    Great book, a must for anyone remotly intrested
    in chemistry or the history of chemistry.

    Ok, so it's a shameless plug.. but I just had to push that damn fine book.

  6. Ode to a Light Bulb by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

    When mine eye falls upon that light
    mine heart turns dark for the unmourned waste
    when in history we once feared night
    and strove to banish it, with undue haste

    that good man Edison born forth the device
    which only made use of one in twenty
    driven by power that which was low in price
    and of that juice there would be plenty

    now science improves upon that thought
    with a tungsten lattice that uses three in five
    hidden with answers we long have sought
    was the mythic efficiency for which we strive

    And nothing remains of that electricity hog
    Save twenty-two billion metric tonnes of smog

  7. Re:one but... by MtViewGuy · · Score: 2

    Give the idea to General Electric. Given their experience with lighting systems, they could probably make the new lightbulb design economically practical in a few years.

    Imagine the efficiency of flourescent lightbulbs without the initial high cost--a lot of people would love to buy such a lightbulb.

  8. The real stuff: Nature article by nniillss · · Score: 3, Interesting
    http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/n ature/journal/v417/n6884/abs/417052a_fs.html All-metallic three-dimensional photonic crystals with a large infrared bandgap

    Three-dimensional (3D) metallic crystals are promising photonic bandgap structures: they can possess a large bandgap, new electromagnetic phenomena can be explored , and high-temperature (above 1,000 C) applications may be possible. However, investigation of their photonic bandgap properties is challenging, especially in the infrared and visible spectrum, as metals are dispersive and absorbing in these regions. Studies of metallic photonic crystals have therefore mainly concentrated on microwave and millimetre wavelengths. Difficulties in fabricating 3D metallic crystals present another challenge, although emerging techniques such as self-assembly may help to resolve these problems. Here we report measurements and simulations of a 3D tungsten crystal that has a large photonic bandgap at infrared wavelengths (from about 8 to 20 m). A very strong attenuation exists in the bandgap, 30 dB per unit cell at 12 m. These structures also possess other interesting optical properties; a sharp absorption peak is present at the photonic band edge, and a surprisingly large transmission is observed in the allowed band, below 6 m. We propose that these 3D metallic photonic crystals can be used to integrate various photonic transport phenomena, allowing applications in thermophotovoltaics and blackbody emission.

    Doesn't this look like some explanation: the material (unlike metals) has a bandgap, i.e., is insulating and cannot absorb or emit radiation at low frequencies. So the energy has to be dissipated at higher (visible) frequencies. Apparently the output is higher than naive calculations would predict. So the puzzle is not why the frequency of the emitted light is so high, but why the output is so strong for a given temperature.

  9. Did anybody see the Naked Gun? by vandelais · · Score: 2

    Because I sure did.
    To avoid having this fall into the hands of Westinghouse or GE, do not create a company and go public.

    ...or get an identifiable tatoo on your ass.

    It's the only way to save the world.

    --
    Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
  10. Re:Efficiancy? by JanneM · · Score: 2

    Not generating heat to begin with?

    I wonder how this compares to modern flourescent light fixtures.

    /Janne

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  11. My obligatory haiku... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 3, Interesting

    light bulb wastes power
    tungsten evaporating:
    produce more photons!

    1. Re:My obligatory haiku... by ShavenYak · · Score: 2

      To get cheaper light
      Try a compact fluorescent
      'til you can buy these.

      --

      Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
    2. Re:My obligatory haiku... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2

      There once was a slashdotter, ShavenYak
      who with verse did try to attack
      my position as king
      of this poetry thing
      you gotta wonder if he smokes crack

    3. Re:My obligatory haiku... by ShavenYak · · Score: 2

      There's no need to get
      your panties all wadded up
      over my haiku.

      --

      Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
  12. Think of the children... by weave · · Score: 5, Funny
    It works by "converting waste heat into visible light?" This is going to ruin all of those Easy Bake Ovens.

    And what about when my daughter finds a birds nest that has fallen out of a tree and we need to fabricate a incubator out of a box and a 25 watt light bulb to keep it warm?

    This is horrible news. Think of the children. Call your congressman and ban this insanity.

    1. Re:Think of the children... by BCoates · · Score: 2

      It works by "converting waste heat into visible light?" This is going to ruin all of those Easy Bake Ovens.

      It's going to ruin your lava lamp, too, it'd have to be blindingly bright to get the lava going properly.

      --
      Benjamin Coates

    2. Re:Think of the children... by AndroidCat · · Score: 2
      I still think that a "Lava Tank" overclocked CPU cooler would be nifty, but I haven't found any lava recipes yet that wouldn't harm the CPU board.

      If only we could clock motherboards up into the frequency of visible light. Then we could use Rack Lighting for illumination from the stray "RF". (Does it worry anyone else that we're starting to clock motherboards up into microwave frequencies?)

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    3. Re:Think of the children... by ShavenYak · · Score: 2

      but assuming the box is sealed to light, a 60 watt bulb will still put off 60 watts of heat

      The thing is, no one will be buying 60 watt bulbs anymore, since 10 watt new bulbs will put out the same light. Actually, I seriously doubt that old-style bulbs would disappear any time soon - there'll always be a lava lamp and easy-bake oven market for them.

      --

      Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
  13. 60 percent? Oh, My, GOD! by jcr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A 60% efficient incandescent bulb would have a whole lot of applications beyond just saving money on the power bill.

    Think projector lamps: Think about the waste heat they wouldn't generate. Think about the cooling fans they won't need. Imagine a 40-watt bulb throwing as much light as a 500 watt bulb does today.

    I sure hope this hits the market sometime SOON.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  14. Other uses? by psavo · · Score: 2

    Does anyone understand article far enough to tell if this can be used for example to convert some light from one wavelength to other, and increase solar cell efficiency?
    AFAIK, solar cells only use some wavelengths efficiently, other are wasted.

    --
    fucktard is a tenderhearted description
  15. Re:Efficiancy? by rcw-home · · Score: 3, Informative
    Flourescents, high-pressure sodium, metal-hallide, etc top out at about 12-15%. For that matter, most cheapo incandescents are more like 3%. The best yellow/orange LED's hit 18%.

    60% is positively huge, although I wonder how cheaply they'll be able to put microscopic tungsten lattices in flashlight bulbs and relatia.

  16. Re:one but... by ergo98 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Much more profound though is that they're basically talking about a device that converts heat into light: The ramifications and applications of that are wide ranging and staggering. Getting even more "goofy", could you have a heat->light conversion, followed by a light->electricity conversion? (i.e. a small "heat energy recovery system").

  17. Re:Or you could just buy a fluorescent by Moderation+abuser · · Score: 2

    Blue's shorter wavelength.

    Older fluorescent technologies maybe but the current crop of products in the shops come in different colours and shades of light.

    Phillips for instance do a fluorescent bulb which they describe as warm white is the same shape and is only fractionally bigger than a normal bulb. Fits in a standard socket and lasts for, well, 5 years in my case.

    The bulbs are still more expensive than normal ones but you save in buying replacements and in electricity costs.

    --
    Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
  18. Re:Or you could just buy a fluorescent by Moderation+abuser · · Score: 2

    That'd be Philips even.

    http://www.eur.lighting.philips.com/servlets/Phi li psSelect?select=_SP4&java=on&choice=0

    --
    Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
  19. Light emitting technology by wowbagger · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The science of turning electric power into light has really changed in the past decade. I've seen a graph in one of my engineering trade journals showing the efficency of LEDs in lumens per watt. Just a decade ago, the best LEDs were two orders of magnitude less efficent than flourescent bulbs. Now, the new generation of blue and white LEDs are more efficent than flourescent, and are approching the levels of low pressure sodium lights.

    If we extrapolate from the given 5%->60% levels given in the article, that would raise incandescent lights to nearly the levels of flourescent, without the warm-up time flourescent has.

    Now, the problem with LED vs. flourescent is cost - LEDs are much more expensive in terms of lumens per doller than flourescent. Would microstructured tungsten be any cheaper?

    1. Re:Light emitting technology by Drakula · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This new form of incandescent would be even more expensive than LEDs for quite awhile. The making of photonic structures is very time consuming and resource intensive., therefore LEDs will most liekly be the short term winner in cost.

      --
      "It's comin' back around again..." -RATM
    2. Re:Light emitting technology by Ben+Hutchings · · Score: 2

      The article said that the structures could probably be mass-produced in the same way as semiconductors.

    3. Re:Light emitting technology by Drakula · · Score: 2

      producing the structures is one thing, incorporating them into light bulbs is a whole other matter...

      --
      "It's comin' back around again..." -RATM
  20. Night vision by GigsVT · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This would make for an incredibly cheap and effective night vision system with a small battery and a CCD camera. IR floodlight with 60% efficiency... mmmmmm.

    --
    I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
  21. making flourescent light less harsh... by Sleepy · · Score: 2

    The few people who tried flourescent bulbs correctly noted that they can be harsh light. This doesn't have to be the case.

    Economics works against flourescent bulbs... generally you have a choice in sizes, but there aren't any choices in "mood" (soft, tinted, etc).

    The answer of course is reflected light, or otherwise hiding the bulb. Lampshades and light bounced off the ceiling works great. Not to mention, these things *greatly* reduce the air conditioner strain during the summer (I used to live without AC, but New England summers are rather hot now.).

    It's sad that standard incandescent lightbulbs are not efficency-regulated out of existence. You pay LESS for efficent lighting, if you factor in all the increased energy taxes which come about due to pollution.

    1. Re:making flourescent light less harsh... by Deffexor · · Score: 2
      Interestingly enough. Compact Fluorescent bulbs have changed radically in the past few years. These light bulb makers have listened to the complaints of people and have taken steps to correct the problems with the bulbs.

      - The phosphors on the bulbs have been changed so as to put out a soft "warm" white light just like a regular incandescent bulb. (rather than the traditional "cold" bluish light from the long tube fluorescents.)
      - The bulbs been shrunk even futher to fit nearly every type of lamp fixture.
      - The bulbs are started with electronic balasts (instead of the old magnetic kinds). This eliminates "flicker" and allows the bulbs to start instantly rather than taking a few seconds to start.
      - The life of these bulbs is usually around 10,000 hours (exceedingly longer than the measly 750 to 1,500 hours of most incandescents.)
      - Energy Efficiency of most of these bulbs exceeds 75%! (still much better than this "improved" incandescent that this thread is about.)

      A small handful of states subsidize purchase of these bulbs. Check out The Energy Guide for great deals on Fluorescent bulbs. I've changed all the incandescents in my house to compact fluorescents, and I've knocked at least $10 / month off my electricity bill!

    2. Re:making flourescent light less harsh... by ShavenYak · · Score: 2

      Does anyone know of a CFL that is sized (and shaped) appropriately for the light fixture on a celiing fan? These are just about the only places we have incandescents in our house. A CFL replacement would need to be about half the size of the run-of-the mill CFL, have output roughly equivalent to a 30-40w incandescent, as well as being shaped similarly to a standard bulb due to Wife Acceptance Factor.

      --

      Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
    3. Re:making flourescent light less harsh... by ShavenYak · · Score: 2

      Yours must be a single globe. I've got a CFL in our one fan that has a globe, but the rest of the fans in the house have the three or four smaller fixtures on stems, and the regular size CFL's won't fit. I have found that Home Depot sells a super-efficient ceiling fan with a 30W dimmable CircLine bulb and a thermostatic remote control - I might replace the old clunkers in the most-occupied rooms with these at some point.

      --

      Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
  22. Re:60 percent? Oh, My, GOD! by Lars+T. · · Score: 2

    Now all they have to do is combining that technology with CPUs. Cool running processors that light up your computer from inside! Sombody call Apple ;-)

    --

    Lars T.

    To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

  23. Why USians by SUVs by yerricde · · Score: 2

    but it's true that by buying something else than SUVs and 7.9l engine cars

    USian drivers buy SUVs because they don't want to get hurt in a potential wreck with an SUV.

    stupid speed limitations! (Which are here precisely because cars' engines eat too much!)

    Actually, U.S. roadways have speed limits because of the reaction time of the average USian driver, especially taking into account effects such as highway hypnosis.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  24. Re:Math challenged? by vrt3 · · Score: 2
    The article the efficiency now is 5%, and it would increase to 60%. That's 12 times better. So a 40 watt light bulb using that technology would emit light like a 480 watt traditional bulb. Not 500 watt, but very close.

    Of course, watts are a measure of consumption, not output. The entire premise of measuring light output via the bulbs power consumption is wrong.

    Yes, very true. But try exaplaining that to Joe Sixpack who doesn't even understand the difference and relationship between Joule, Watt and Watt hour.

    --
    This sig under construction. Please check back later.
  25. What about LED's? by dpbsmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Incandescent lamps... around 20 lumens per watt. Fluorescent lamps... about 70 lumens per watt. White LED, 50 lumens per watt and climbing. And the power requirements and ability to fit them into small spaces are much less tricky than for fluorescent.

    LED's are almost there--and efficiencies are climbing. Main problem right now is that they're expensive. But already, I see they're being used for the red, and, increasingly, the green lights in traffic lights around here.

    By the time this stuff makes it out of the lab, LEDs will be cheap and even more efficient than they are now.

    And, of course, all the gee-whiz wizards-of-the-labs articles never say how much the new technology is likely to COST. And the stated efficiencies tend to decline as the devices start to approach reality...

    If they can really make these things twelve times as efficient as LED's AND give a pleasant, flattering light spectrum AND get the cost down, it will be interesting.

    1. Re:What about LED's? by Drakula · · Score: 2

      Here is two reasons why the savings are so big:

      1) Conventional traffic lights have to be replaced once a year to make sure they are working, whether they have died or not. LED based traffic lights last up to 10 years.

      2) Conventional traffic lights use colored glass to filter the broad spectrum light into the desired color, wasting large amounts of the generated light. LED based lights do not require a filter so the power savings are huge.

      fyi

      --
      "It's comin' back around again..." -RATM
    2. Re:What about LED's? by topham · · Score: 2

      Here in Winnipeg we have white LED's for Walk lights at a few intersections.

    3. Re:What about LED's? by BlueUnderwear · · Score: 2
      1) Conventional traffic lights have to be replaced once a year to make sure they are working, whether they have died or not. LED based traffic lights last up to 10 years.

      If you look closely, you'll notice that the red lights usually have two bulbs. That way, if one fails, there's still the other one, no need to "pre-emptively" replace bulbs.

      Green and yellow have only one bulb, but the potential of damage when these fail is much less (... and the cynical could argue that failure of yellow is actually good for the city finances)

      --
      Say no to software patents.
  26. Blackbodies and greenhouses by mgarraha · · Score: 2

    I think the greenhouse effect has more to do with absorption than with angle of incidence. Blackbody emission peak wavelength decreases with temperature. The Sun, a 6000 K blackbody, emits visible light, which passes through the windows and is absorbed by the interior. The interior, a 300 K blackbody, emits infrared, which is absorbed by the windows.

    In his autobiography, 19th century instrument maker John A. Brashear describes a project to make lenses out of salt crystals for an astronomer who wanted to make infrared observations. Salt is supposed to be much more transparent than glass in that band of the spectrum.

    1. Re:Blackbodies and greenhouses by dmaxwell · · Score: 2

      Some infrared spectrometers do indeed use salt lenses to focus the light. Instruments intended to sample the air have to use dessicant filters because humid air will degrade the lenses.

  27. getting power from these structures by cats-paw · · Score: 2
    The advance also opens the possibility of increased efficiencies in thermal photovoltaic applications (TPV).

    A breakthrough in solar energy ?

    I wonder what the energy density from the sun is in the IR spectrum ?

    --
    Absolute statements are never true
  28. Re:Efficiancy? by Deffexor · · Score: 2

    Bzzzzz. Wrong. Sorry. Thanks for playing. :-)

    Fluorescents certainly do not top out at 12 - 15%. Most flourescents exceed 75% efficiency! Sometimes they even hit close to 80%.

    The new models use electronic balasts, so they don't flicker at the frequency of the powersupply. And they start instantly, too. (altho for some reason a bunch of them require a 1 to 2-minute warmup period to reach full strength.)

    And you can buy fluorescent bulbs that emit soft, warm light (instead of the traditional harsh, cold light of long tube fluorescents.)

    Now if this new technology that's being pimped in the article in this thread ultimately exceeds 80% efficiency, then I'm switching to this new technology (assuming it is cost effective). Until then, fluorescents all the way baby!!

  29. No such thing as a "USian". Let's settle this. by ArsSineArtificio · · Score: 3, Offtopic

    There's no such thing as a USian.

    You see, some countries in the world are called "The United States of X". Generally because, accurately or otherwise, they're supposedly a federal union of autonomous "states".

    People who live in one of these "United States" countries are called after the place where the states are located.

    Citizens of the United States of Mexico are called.... Mexicans.

    Citizens of the United States of Brazil are called.... Brazilians.

    Citizens of the United States of America are called.... Americans.

    But the entire Western Hemisphere should be called "America"! It's unfair that just the USA uses that name!

    Unfair in what way? Brazil doesn't lack a name. Canada's not hurting for a moniker unrelated to the name of its continent.

    Besides, geographical names are blurry anyway. By "Africa'' a lot of people mean simply "sub-Saharan Africa". Peru used to mean all of non-Brazilian South America, not just one Andean country. Some names (e.g. Iraq, Pakistan) are simply made up out of nowhere.

    So why invent the ugly term "USian", which could equally well apply to several different countries, when everybody the world over knows what an "American" is?

    --
    All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
  30. Re:Efficiency? by rcw-home · · Score: 2
    Most flourescents exceed 75% efficiency!

    If that were true, a 40-watt flourescent tube would output ~20000 lumens, not ~3000.

    100% efficiency would be about 680 lumens per watt. Flourescents do about 80, incandescents do about 18.

    Oh, and misspelling words like "flourescent" and "ballast" hurts your credibility.

  31. What are you thinking??! by morcheeba · · Score: 2

    This is Sandia. One of those governement labs with supercomputers and stuff. Like ASCI Red, the world's 3rd fastest supercomputer, for example.

    They've got an OC-48 2.5 Gbps link to San Francisco. That was in 2000, they may have upgraded since then...

    yeah, I know, they may have outsourced the web server to a 56k modem line, but somehow I doubt it...

    1. Re:What are you thinking??! by Alien54 · · Score: 2
      They've got an OC-48 2.5 Gbps link to San Francisco.

      Obviously over optimistic about the power of The Mighty Slash Dot.

      Maybe if it wasn't a nice spring weekend with 90% of the geeks out there seeing Spider Man for the tenth time....

      --
      "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  32. Re:100% efficiency by AJWM · · Score: 2

    True, but sooner or later, all the light even from one of these new bulbs turns into heat -- except for that light which escapes out the windows.

    --
    -- Alastair
  33. revolutionary by irritating+environme · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Granted this is on the heels of the bubble fusion article

    But this is superlatively revolutionary. Take the two possible big-hit applications: massive energy efficiencies coupled with a 20-30% increase in photovotalic efficiency (read: reduced cost) and this is a big step toward alternative energy.

    Imagine a mass-produced fuel cells and increased efficiency photovotalics with lighting generated by these things. Who needs a power company?

    --


    Hey, I'm just your average shit and piss factory.
  34. Re:60 percent? Oh, My, GOD! by jonbrewer · · Score: 2

    Since converting to compact flourescent bulbs at home over the past three years, I've often wondered why projectors still use incandescant bulbs. I certainly won't be buying a projector for home use until the problem of cooling is solved. Having brought a few projectors home to try, I've found that the noise from cooling fans outweighs the benefit of the big screen.

    Cool stuff. Literally. :-)

  35. Re:one but... by zCyl · · Score: 2

    Much more profound though is that they're basically talking about a device that converts heat into light: The ramifications and applications of that are wide ranging and staggering.

    Remember a couple years back when we invented fire? Yeah, that funny little orangish/yellowish glow from the air around the wood, that's kind of the same principle.

  36. nice, but no solution to energy problem by j09824 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is great work. But if people want high-efficiency, pleasant-looking light-bulbs, they can already get them and save money in the process. The fact that people don't buy them despite all their advantages suggests that the problem isn't technology, it's people.

    1. Re:nice, but no solution to energy problem by kcbrown · · Score: 2
      That's true, but they save money in the long run by spending more money up front. Many people don't do this because they think short term, not long term.

      So this technology is a possible solution to the energy problem, but only if it gets sold at roughly the same price point as current lightbulbs. But you can expect that they'll be sold at a premium even if the manufacturing costs are the same, simply because they're better, and so the problem of high energy consumption will remain.

      --
      Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
  37. Projector Bulbs by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The reason we use incandescent lamps for projectors is that you need a point source to be able to focus the image. A flourescent source is too large (a 13W biax lamp would need to be 60" away from a projector to focus the image!), but metal halide lamps work well for high wattages.

    What is amazing is that this is about 3x more efficient than flourescent or High Intensity Discharge lamps! That doesn't quite sound possible... but that is what they are saying!

  38. Color? by Shook · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I wonder what these lights would look like. Some of our more efficient lights (like sodium) have colors nowhere near natural sunlight. There's plenty of niche markets for different lighting sources. Colored LED's for signals, flourescent for efficient indoor lighting, orange/pinkish sodium lights for outdoors.

    I think the color of the light produced would be very important for its potential uses.

  39. Re:Still no such thing as a "USian". by ArsSineArtificio · · Score: 2

    Ha.
    So if we have a United States of Africa, do we call them African? How about United States of Asia? Asians?
    You get the point?


    What point? Hypothetical countries need hypothetical names?

    But, sure, we can play that game. Let's say we had a hypothetical federation of European nations, which we'll call the "European Union". What are people from within this Union supposedly called? Europeans. What about places which are in Europe but not in the European Union, like Norway? Norwegians.

    --
    All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
  40. Re:Heinlein--YES... by Webmonger · · Score: 2

    Yes, there's a Heinlein book called The Man who Sold the Moon. It's a collection of Future History stories, with the story "The Man who Sold the Moon" as its "title track".

    I've never read it, because I assumed that The Past Through Tomorrow contained all the Future History stories.

  41. Joules, Watts. by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Because some idiot decided that there needed to be 3600 seconds in an hour, and so using a 100W device for an hour somehow uses 360kJ of energy.

    If your target audience uses a calculator to get fifty percent of a hundred, you don't want to inflict our silly Sumerian time scale on them. (Was it the Sumerians who did the base-sixty nonsense? Or was that the Babylonians?)

    --grendel drago

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
  42. Re:one but... by zCyl · · Score: 2

    a computer system could run on a couple of W if you could reclaim all of the heat it generates

    Minus light from the monitor and the whirring sounds, a computer would practically be a perpetual motion machine if you could reclaim all of the heat it generates. Unfortunately, the laws of thermodynamics don't permit full recovery like that.

  43. Re:Efficiency? by Dahan · · Score: 2
    Oh, and misspelling words like "flourescent" [...] hurts your credibility.

    So that white powder inside the tubes is flour? Cool; I've always wondered what that stuff was...

    C'mon, it's obvious he knows how to spell it, and just made a typo--he spelled it correctly 4 of the 5 times. Whereas you misspelled it 3 of out 3 times. 3 strikes and you're out!

  44. Entropy. by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 2

    Is there some entropic reason why light cannot be turned into electricity? We know about heat, but not about light. Is there even somewhere to start with the whole S=k ln W thing? I asked a couple of physics professors around here, but no one really seemed to know. I think it might be an open research topic. Someone should do a bunch of math on the subject.

    References, anyone?

    --grendel drago

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
  45. Re:one but... by Tony-A · · Score: 2

    heat->light->electricity conversion?
    You've got entropy working against you.
    What they're doing is reducing the effects of entropy by something like blocking undesirable radiation from occurring.

  46. Re:Math challenged? by jcr · · Score: 2

    Check your own math before you get pedantic, please..

    The article is talking about improving the efficiency from 5% to 60%, not improving the efficiency *by* 60%.

    So, if 60% of the power going into this new filament is emitted as visible light, then a 40-watt bulb will be about as bright as today's 500-watt bulb.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  47. Re:Energy, efficiency... by BCoates · · Score: 2

    I'll get fuel efficient when someone provides me a fuel efficient vehicle that can do decent battle in a collision

    I would be really surprised if SUVs are actually safer than a regular car on the whole. I don't think i'd ever seen a rollover on city streeets until SUVs became popular--vehicles on their side or top used to be a sight only seen in severe highway accidents, but apparently it's practical to tip or flip a SUV at 35-45 mph judging from a recent accident or two.

    And when they hit get hit hard, they get twisted up just like a family car.

    --
    Benjamin Coates

  48. Re:Life Span of Bulb... by Courageous · · Score: 2

    The only way a technology such as this would be accepted by big manufactures is if they have a short life span.

    You conspiracy freaks are so delusional sometimes. There are multi year bulbs you can buy right in the store, you know?

    C//

  49. Re:Efficiancy? by Courageous · · Score: 2

    Obviously not, otherwise you would have just invalidated any variety of thermal/steam engines with a stroke of your "can't decrease entropy" pen.

    C//

  50. Re:60 percent? Oh, My, GOD! by ShavenYak · · Score: 2

    In addition to the fact that a projector needs a point source, a fluorescent lamp also wouldn't have the right color spectrum to make the projected image look right. Although I suppose that could be adjusted for to some degree.

    --

    Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
  51. Re:Energy, efficiency... by ShavenYak · · Score: 2

    I would be really surprised if SUVs are actually safer than a regular car on the whole.

    No, I'm pretty sure they're not. They have longer braking distances and poorer maneuverability than cars, in addition to their rollover problems. Also, they tend to be more rigid in construction, which seems as if they wouldn't absorb collision energy as effectively as a car with all its "crumple zones". Their only advantage is sheer size, which is negated because of the numbers of them on the road (you're driving a big vehicle, but you're more likely to collide with another big vehicle). In fact, some SUV drivers obviously get some sort of "invulnerability complex" when they get behind the wheel, causing them to be a greater danger to themselves and others on the road.

    Anyone who thinks size = safety has obviously never seen an Indy car driver walk away from the mangled wreckage of his car after a 200+mph crash.

    Note: I don't think SUVs should be banned, or that everyone that drives one is an idiot. They do have their uses, and for some folks they may nearly be a necessity. There are a lot of folks, though, that buy them for no good reason, and it is these people that I dearly wish would get a clue.

    --

    Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
  52. Re:Interesting by AndroidCat · · Score: 2
    I like your idea of having the light switch delay turning on until it is at 0v. Very interesting... A solid state relay and a voltage detector would be needed.

    An 8 pin DIP and a 15A+ Triac. (If there isn't an existing chip for it, volume sales would make it worthwhile to make one.) Lightbulbs always blow when you switch them on, never during usage.

    There have been recifier gimicks for lamp sockets, but I doubt those do very much.

    I put this idea in the public domain (not that I can copyright ideas), and all that I (hopefully) ask for is a bunch of these (for site testing) so that I don't have to keep replacing those damned bulbs!

    How many hardware engineers does it take to not change a lightbulb?

    --
    One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.