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Review of New Sony Clie PEG-NR70

Bryce writes "Here is a detailed review of the new Sony Clie PEG-NR70." Kurt the Pope picked one of these up in Japan and I have to say that it is an amazing PDA. Brilliant screen, and that cool flip open design with a mini keyboard. When I can get one that speaks English, it could be my next PDA (my iPaq died!)

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  1. Text of Article by Krieger · · Score: 4, Informative

    Given how long most of these sites seem to hold up to a /.ing.. Here's the text.

    AsiaGadgets
    May 08, 2002
    Review: Sony Clie PEG-NR70 Handheld

    Sony Clie NR70 HandheldSony's latest Clie is a radical and welcome departure from the traditional design of the handheld PDA. Introducing innovations that have never been seen before on a Palm OS based device, the Clie PEG-NR70 and its digital camera bearing cousin NR70V have generated a flurry of excitement among PDA aficionados. This hands-on review takes a first look at what all the buzz is about.

    Unique Form Factor

    The most easily recognized innovation is the folding "clam shell" form factor. This design choice parallels the progression of mobile phone design in Japan, where ever-larger color LCD screens left little room for number keys that human fingers could comfortably press. In the pursuit of more surface real estate, Japanese mobile phone manufacturers decided to risk the stigma associated with flip phone designs -- a stigma largely caused by Motorola's unattractive and dated models -- by splitting the phone into two halves: an LCD screen on the upper half and a keypad on the lower half. These two halves are thin enough that folding the phone results in a thickness that is still thinner than most mobile phones sold in Europe and the U.S.

    PDAs have always had large screens, so when Sony decided to add a keyboard, there was no choice but to follow a similar design philosophy. The NR70 has two very thin folding halves, with an LCD screen and keyboard on the upper and lower halves, respectively. The thickness of this Clie, when closed, feels about the same as a Palm III. But the real innovation is the ability to swivel the screen 180 degrees and fold it over the other half, morphing the device into the handheld form factor that most people are accustomed to using with a stylus. These two modes can be thought of as "keyboard input mode" and "stylus input mode."

    Larger Screen Swivels 180 Degrees

    The color LCD screen, like those found on previous iterations of the Clie, is a joy to look at. The high resolution screen is bright, text and graphics are sharp, and the 65,536 colors are as vibrant as one can expect from a handheld. But that's not why so many people are excited about the NR70.

    Another major innovation Sony introduced for this model, the 320-by-480 pixel 16-bit color screen, is perhaps the most significant. For years, Palm devices have been plagued by an immutable silk-screened input area that occupies valuable screen real estate, while competing devices feature larger displays with less wasted space. Sony's new Clie is the first Palm-based handheld to nix the permanent silk-screened input area in favor of a software-based area displayed at the bottom of the new, larger LCD screen.

    You might think that the apps on the NR70 would be lining up to take advantage of this newly liberated screen real estate. Unfortunately, you would be wrong. It appears that there is only a single application, the built-in image viewer, that can temporarily hide the input area and use the entire screen. Although it would be great to be able to use the entire vertical screen length to view calendars, memos, e-books, and other application data, this is not yet possible on this Clie, mostly likely due to limitations inherent in version 4.1 of the Palm OS. While there are no guarantees, hopefully a subsequent update to the underlying software will enable more applications to utilize the entire screen.

    Integrated Keyboard

    The QWERTY-style keyboard is a boon even to those who have become proficient at stylus entry via the Graffiti input system. Much like the RIM Blackberry communications device, the keyboard on the NR70 is most easily used with two thumbs. Using just these two digits, text input via the keyboard was surprisingly easy and quick. Despite years of experience with Graffiti input, I soon preferred text entry via the keyboard to pecking away at the screen with the stylus.

    Sony Clie NR70 KeyboardThe keyboard has four modifier keys on the left side: Shift, Control, Function, and Alt. The Function key is used to enter numbers, which are located along the top row of the alphabet letter keys. Entering numbers this way was a bit cumbersome but not as difficult as one might expect. Symbols, on the other hand, are scattered among the remaining letter keys and can be difficult to locate quickly. Thankfully, common punctuation characters such as the comma and period have their own keys.

    I did find one significant annoyance, however, when using the keyboard to enter contact data. Sony/Palm made it too difficult to use the keyboard to move from one field to another. The tab key would seem like the most intuitive method, but this simply inserts a tab character into the field. (Somebody please explain to me the purpose of entering tabs into contact fields. Good reasons for doing this are completely eluding me.) Not being the type to read instruction manuals, I unsuccessfully tried every possible combination of modifier keys along with the arrow keys, return key, and even the jog dial. I had to put down the Clie and vent my frustrations via an hour of indescriminate bedlam before I was able to clear my mind, pick the NR70 back up, and discover that control-tab and shift-control-tab are the magic ingredients. However, hitting control-tab with just the left thumb requires too much hand contorting, and using two thumbs is even harder due to the size and placement of these keys. Eventually I decided that the best solution was to simply use my left index fingernail to manually place the cursor in the next field. If the developers out there are listening, I strongly urge them to at least allow for a "Tab key moves between fields" preference somewhere in a subsequent update to the software.

    Other buttons on the Clie include Sony's signature Jog Dial that is used to scroll up and down, as well as to select the current item by pushing in the Jog. Also on the left side of the bottom half of the device is the Back button, which is used when the user wishes to cancel a Jog Dial operation. Rounding out the buttons on the left side is the Hold button, which seems to have little use other than in conjunction with the Audio Player application.

    Faster Processor

    The Clie NR70 is the first Palm OS device to sport the new 66MHz Motorola Dragonball Super VZ. Twice as fast as other handhelds powered by the Palm OS, this processor made the NR70 feel much snappier than competing Palm and Handspring devices. While not as fast as processors found in other handheld platform designs, this CPU allows the NR70 to perform responsively while yielding longer battery life than handhelds with faster processors.

    Software Graffiti

    Software Graffiti Input AreaSeveral welcome enhancements have been introduced to the no-longer-static input area, although it is unclear whether these improvements were made by Sony, Palm, or collaboration between the two companies. The most notable enhancement is visual feedback when using the stylus to draw on the input area. A square dot appears when the stylus is first placed on one of the two input boxes, and a thin line follows the movement of the stylus until it is lifted from the screen. This helps visualize what is being entered in the input area and reduces errant stylus strokes.

    Other handy aspects of the new input area include a clock in the lower right-hand corner, an LCD brightness control, battery power indicator, and an icon that appears when a Memory Stick has been inserted. There is also a button which brings up an on-screen keyboard inside the input area that is much more space efficient than having a separate window appear above the input area.

    Synchronization

    Initial attempts to HotSync the NR70 via the USB cradle with an Apple iBook running OS X 10.1.3 and Palm's recently released Palm Desktop 4.0 software produced a "serial port is currently in use" error, despite reports of successful HotSyncs between this configuration and previous Clie models. This error was particularly interesting since serial ports have not been featured on Macs for many years. Hopefully either Palm, Sony, or third parties such as MarkSpace will provide a solution to this problem.

    Luckily, a spare Vaio running Win2k/J was handy to test the synchronization capabilities of the new Clie. The included installer CD for Win32 platforms provided an easy-to-follow bevy of installation options. I opted for a basic install, loading on only the HotSync, Palm Desktop, and SoundStage LE software. As expected, initiating the HotSync was as easy as pushing the button on the USB cradle, and the synchronization was fast and accurate.

    The SoundStage LE software is included so that users may organize their music collections and transfer tracks to a Memory Stick inserted in the Clie. I found the interface rather cluttered, and the software indicated that there were no compatible devices attached. Rather than spending hours troubleshooting the problem, I simply used the HotSync Manager to transfer MP3 files to the Clie's Memory Stick, much in the same way one would install a Palm application. This worked smoothly, although the transfer took far more time than a 12 Mbps USB connection should take.

    Clie Applications

    The standard contact, calendar, to-do, and memo applications appear to function much as other Palm-based handhelds and thus don't merit much attention. The built-in MP3 player and graphic applications, on the other hand, are worth mentioning briefly.

    AudioPlayer

    The MP3 files that had been uploaded via the HotSync manager appeared immediately after launching the included AudioPlayer application. The interface is clean and well-designed, although the somewhat blocky and jagged interface widgets stand in stark contrast to the sharp input area below. Clearly, the AudioPlayer app hasn't yet been fully updated to take advantage of the high-resolution screen. There are three visualization modes, which of course serve little purpose other than to elicit "Wow, cool!" reactions from onlookers. The sound quality through the included earbud headphones was clear with good dynamic range, and the wired remote control between the Clie and the earphones provided convenient operation of the AudioPlayer while the NR70 is folded and placed in a pocket, purse, or backpack. Closing the lid automatically shuts off the LCD screen in order to conserve battery power and also prevents unwanted accidental key presses from interrupting the music. Turning on the "Hold" button will achieve the same effect even when the Clie is open and unfolded.

    Sony Clie AudioPlayer

    The inability to listen to music while reading email or composing memos was the only bone I had to pick with AudioPlayer. Perhaps there is a solution that enables this type of multitasking, but I couldn't seem to figure out how. While again this is most likely a problem inherent in the underlying Palm OS, it would be nice if this limitation were lifted in a future software update.

    The biggest surprise came when I accidentally removed the remote control and earphones while a track was still playing. While Blink182 tracks may not be the best way to judge audio speaker quality, I was nonetheless impressed with the sound coming out of the tiny opening in the back of the 3/8"-thick bottom half of the NR70. Given how thin the enclosure is, getting audio quality akin to decent AM radio is nothing to shake a stick at. So provided you don't need very high audio volume, load up your NR70 with tunes and leave your boom box behind the next time you head out to the beach or a BBQ.

    CLIE Paint, PG Pocket, PhotoStand, and gMovie

    The Clie Paint application, while no Photoshop, is a handy tool for creating simple sketches and doodles as well as for editing/annotating photos that have been HotSync'ed into the NR70. The PG Pocket and PhotoStand applications appear to be mainly for use with the digital camera built into the NR70's cousin, the NR70V, so these applications were looked at only perfunctorily. (The NR70V was not yet available for review at the time this article was prepared.) Both applications seem well developed and useful for organizing and displaying digital photos. Sony's gMovie is, predictably, a movie viewing application for video files transferred to the Clie's Memory Stick. This application couldn't be tested in time for this review, so perhaps one of our readers will provide feedback on this application by using the Comments link at the bottom of this article.

    Final Thoughts

    Sony's latest entry into the handheld market offers radical innovations and raises the bar for both Palm and Handspring. The NR70's folding design, integrated keyboard, and Software Graffiti input area combine to form the most significant advancement in handheld engineering since Apple gave birth to the PDA market many years ago. Add wireless connectivity via the Memory Stick expansion slot, and you may soon find your notebook, MP3 player, and digital camera collecting dust in the corner.
    Posted by Sparky at May 08, 2002 12:29 AM

    1. Re:Text of Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      Sony's new Clie is the first Palm-based handheld to nix the permanent silk-screened input area in favor of a software-based area displayed at the bottom of the new, larger LCD screen.

      Uhh... not it's not. The HandEra has the exact same feature, and hopefully all future Palms will have it.


      It's good to see SOMEONE take charge of innovation with the PalmOS, but they still have ways to go to catch up with the PocketPC's. Hey Microsoft, competition is a good thing!

    2. Re:Text of Article by rosewood · · Score: 2

      Repeate after me

      Palm Pilot != a POCKET PC (not Pocket Pc (tm) which is a POCKET PC)

      Palm == Datebook, Calender, Notes, and Tasks -- everything else is a plesent EXTRA

      POCKET PC == A PC in your POCKET! If I wanted to have a PC with me everywhere, Id get a damn laptop. If I want a better datebook, which i did, I got my palm pilot.

    3. Re:Text of Article by i0lanthe · · Score: 2
      Sony's new Clie is the first Palm-based handheld to nix the permanent silk-screened input area in favor of a software-based area displayed at the bottom of the new, larger LCD screen.
      Uhh... not it's not. The HandEra has the exact same feature, and hopefully all future Palms will have it.

      ...and hopefully with an API that is both (1) nice and (2) standardized, since applications do have to be modified by their authors to take advantage of extra screen space, and having the hardware support for it is not much use to purchasers if no apps actually use it or if an app has to be modified in five different ways to work on five different companies' PalmOS devices (in which case it will probably have been modified to work on one or two and not the one you were hoping for).

      I heard from folks who have programmed with both the HandEra API and the 320x320 Sony API, that the HandEra one was actually the more pleasant of the two. (I've only looked at the HandEra documentation, myself, so I dunno what the old Sony API is like or whether this one uses the same one.) I'd settle for "not so nice" as long as I got to have "standardized", but it would still be better to have both attributes.

      And I have to say it's really sad that, from what reviewers have reported, this new Sony ships with only one application that takes advantage of the new space. Makes this third-party developer think "if they're not going to bother supporting their own 'new' hardware features, well heck, why should I."

      --
      "The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life"
  2. Motorola Unattractive?? by Julius+X · · Score: 4, Insightful
    From the article:
    The most easily recognized innovation is the folding "clam shell" form factor. This design choice parallels the progression of mobile phone design in Japan, where ever-larger color LCD screens left little room for number keys that human fingers could comfortably press. In the pursuit of more surface real estate, Japanese mobile phone manufacturers decided to risk the stigma associated with flip phone designs -- a stigma largely caused by Motorola's unattractive and dated models

    Excuse me? I would not call products like the StarTAC or V60 unattractive. Nor would I call them "dated". It seems to me that Motorola Cell phones are made for people who want to use their cell phones for exactly that purpose---to talk to people. I'll tell you this...my StarTAC 7868 is a hell of a lot more comfortable than any Nokia brick I've ever seen.
    --

    -Julius X
    remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
    1. Re:Motorola Unattractive?? by forgoil · · Score: 2

      Not to be overly negative, but my 8210 is very far from a brick, nor clumsy. It's really nice and small, and didn't look and sound like a toy (like the few motorolas I've used). In Europe you hardly see Motorolas, and the last time I visited the states (Januray/February this year) I didn't find any of the latest models from Nokia nor Ericsson there.

      Estetically pleasing is hard to measure, but look at which phones sell the best and you get an idea of who made the right decision.

  3. English Version is Available. by A+Commentor · · Score: 3, Informative
    I received a new NR70(English Version) on Monday. I had pre-ordered it, but according to Sony's Site, the NR70 (no camera) is available now, if you want the NR70V (with camera) it should be available 'On or before 5/18/2002'

    Shameless plug... If you plan to buy it (or any other Sony products), you could got to my awesome site to buy stuff and click on the Sony banner they buy it ;-)

    --

    Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com

    1. Re:English Version is Available. by cmoney · · Score: 2

      And CompUSA had the no camera version in stock in NJ last time I checked.

  4. Where's the wireless? by john82 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's amazing to me that with all the design and features that went into this product, Sony left out wireless. Considering the advanced telco services in Japan, Sony's reputation for using the latest technology for their products, and the price of this puppy ($600), I expected that wireless would be a given. Check ZDnet for another review.

  5. Re:where is the wireless? Yes there is bluetooth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's a bluetooth memory stick that works perfectly with connecting to a bluetooth phone. So there is your wireless.

    -Anonymous Howard

  6. better review by mliu · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you're interested in a far more detailed review from a site that is focussed on nothing besides Palm hardware (so they should know what they are talking about) go to here.

    As an additional bonus they already have a fairly burgeoning discussion from a buncha PDA geeks, who likewise really know what they're talking about for the most part (though the site has a real problem with trolls).

    Incidentally, if you would like one that is in English Mr. Taco, you could buy them practically anywhere these days as I understand. This is a logical, if hideously overpriced place to start. At the rate that yen is converting to dollars these days, it's actually cheaper to buy a Japanese model and import it to the US than buy it through the curiously overpriced US outlets. I saw a N70V for 4-something US dollars at my local electronics etailer here in Japan, without doing any shopping around at all.

    1. Re:better review by mliu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry, figured it would be obvious. Heh, prices on electronics are good in Japan, but not THAT good (didn't you read that recent piece on Akihabara shopping?).

      I think the equivalent dollar figure I saw on the N70V was around $440 US as I recall.

  7. Nitpick... by gravelpup · · Score: 2, Informative
    Sony's new Clie is the first Palm-based handheld to nix the permanent silk-screened input area in favor of a software-based area displayed at the bottom of the new, larger LCD screen.

    Handera beat them to it about a year ago.

    Regardless, I think this will be my next PDA, as soon as Best Buy has another one of their 20% off sales.

    --

    Things are more like they are now than they ever were before.

  8. CLIE by daviddennis · · Score: 2

    I have the predecessor to this model, so I have a few comments.

    The movie player works fine, although the only movie I loaded into it was a totally baffling promotion for the AIBO. A friend of mine said "What's that?" when I played it for her. She thought that if it was advertising, it needed some SERIOUS re-working.

    Of course the movie player isn't terribly useful due to the low memory capacity of the device (16mb if my memory serves). I think the minute or so long AIBO movie was about a megabyte. I'd count the movie player as a curiosity and nothing more.

    The high-resolution display is simply fantastic. I gather from the review that this is essentially the same display, but with added resolution on the bottom, where the permanently set up input area is on mine.

    All it takes to sell the CLIE over its Palm competition is one look at that display. The CLIE also has a "real metal" feel which looks conspicuously high-quality compared to the plasticky Palm and Handspring models.

    I have no doubt at all that the keyboard would really help make this unit easier to use. I am okay at Graffiti, but still find the motions required to write akward. This might be because I've used a keyboard for my entire life, though; regular handwriting is just as annoying for me.

    All in all, this is a real wake-up call for Palm, which has undeniably been caught napping. I look forward to giving this device a try at my local Fry's soon.

    D

    1. Re:CLIE by A+Commentor · · Score: 2
      Of course the movie player isn't terribly useful due to the low memory capacity of the device (16mb if my memory serves). I think the minute or so long AIBO movie was about a megabyte. I'd count the movie player as a curiosity and nothing more.

      The Aibo clip provided with the NR70 must have been longer(I think it was 3-5M)... BUT
      that is why all the Sony Clies have a memory stick slots... The movies are meant to be stored on the memory stick not in the PDA's memory.
      --

      Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com

    2. Re:CLIE by daviddennis · · Score: 2

      Well, yes, but even memory sticks only go up to 128mb, which isn't enough for much in the way of video.

      D

  9. It's available by costas · · Score: 2

    I played with one in an Atlanta CompUSA just this past Saturday. It's very, very nice, but I will be waiting for the new XScale PPCs before I upgrade from my Vx...

    1. Re:It's available by mliu · · Score: 2

      Alternatively, you could also consider the ARM based OS-5 Palm devices that will be coming out in the near future (less than half a year) if you like. Not to be plugging Palm or anything, I like PPC's too, and people have their preferences, but from the fact that you are currently using a Vx I figured you might want to stay with Palm OS. They also will have similar speed ranges and what not, plus with the added bonus (or detraction, depending on your point of view) that they run Palm OS. This will mean that you can migrate any programs you have on your Vx over (besides hacks) without any problems.

      You can read the story at Palm Infocenter. According to the article, processors in the Palm OS ready programs currently range at 18MHz to 1GHz and OS 5 should be released in June. So basically, whatever floats your boat. If you're only changing to PPC reluctantly you might wanna consider sitting tight a couple months, especially if your need for a new handheld isn't great.

  10. ARM based palm pda's by HoaryCripple · · Score: 2

    Palm os 5 supports the ARM processor. When are the ARM based, Palm powered pda's coming out? I've been waiting around for a while now for news about this, but can't seem to find much. I love the usability of the Palm design, but medical software just crawls on the Dragonball processors. Also, a standard compactflash slot would be nice...But Sony would never do that.

  11. Designs and Obsolescene by Krieger · · Score: 2

    It surprises me a little that all these companies are coming out with these designs so late in the term of the support of the current processor. Given the move to ARM architecture you would think they would want to wait a little bit.

    However feature-wise it is starting to integrate in the right direction. The onscreen text-area makes so much sense it surprises me that more people haven't done it (yes Handera, but they aren't as mainstream as Palm, Sony, and Handspring). The larger amounts of RAM for both the flash and for apps and storage make these much more attractive then the other makers.

    If only Sony's support for these wasn't so shoddy they are pretty clearly offering one of the technologically best Palm platforms right now. If I hadn't just bought a different one I would be buying one of these.

  12. slashdotted... sony's site by Giant+Robot · · Score: 2
    Here's some eyecandy of the new clie:

    in japanese.

  13. Clie? Did they get a decent hardware upgrade?? by optisonic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    After looking at the article, it doesn't look like this model is much different.

    I've been researching the handheld market very heavily in the past few weeks and there are not many good choices. All of the decent choices are NOT Palm OS or Linux. :(

    I REALLY wanted a Zaurus 5500 because it has way more potential than any other unit I've seen. Unfortunately there is a significant lack of software that provides desktop functionality. Mail support is kinda weak and there of course is no terminal server client for us that have to manage both Windows and Linux servers. File compatibility is also weak on ALL handhelds that I have seen. This is one of the most important issues, especially in an office environment where you want to get work done and not have to convert to a non-standard (in most offices anyhow) format such as rtf instead of doc. None of them support embedding of images and objects yet but with the next round of PocketPC software, we will have support for this as well.

    Until new hardware is released, PocketPC 2002 has the most useful features and the most commercial developer support. I don't have time to code apps myself as I already work 70+ hour weeks and can't spare anymore personal time.

    There are only 2 handhelds that had features vs. cost that are acceptable.

    Compaq 3870 (the one with INTEGRATED bluetooth)
    Casio Casseopia E-200
    Sharp Zaurus 5500

    The Compaq is best because you don't have to use a slot to access the Internet from your unit. This alone is worth the purchase. No other unit has the same features, screen quality, and support (such as closing apps without having to "end task") in one unit.

    The Casio is best for cost vs features if you don't want bluetooth. As I don't want to permanently use a slot for wireless connection (that could be used for memory etc), this won't work for me.

    The Sharp feels the best, has a great display, a very helpful keyboard, and some very good apps. If they had included support to write and read ms office/pocket office documents, I would buy this one even without bluetooth. No bluetooth, no native file support, no Zaurus for me.

    No matter which you choose, wireless is the ONLY way to use these things effectively (unless you are boring and don't use the Internet and network extensively like everyone I know does). To use wireless effectively, you MUST use a service such as LoudPC. Without it, you are severly limited.

    Palm OS is crippled in comparison and the hardware can't handle the fun stuff that the 64mb PocketPC's can. Maybe a Clie for the kids would be fine, but it is not a professional worktool.

    my 2p

    -bj

  14. Great product by i_luv_linux · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This is a really cool product. But the stock market currently says that Palm is doomed. Palm should make great advancements in their Operating System, otherwise I don't think that they will stand a chance to Microsoft in the future. As the technology develops, pocket PC devices may be quite competitive in terms of portability and battery life which I believe is the number one reason behind the trend for Palm devices.

    Linux may also be a good competitor in this area, but the flagship product of Linux, Sharp Zaurus, seems to be not so successful, if successful at all.

  15. Re:cool, but where is the phone? by mliu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As cool as those combo PDA phones are, if you stop and consider for a moment you'd realize that the sheer geek factor of those is off the charts. There are 3 demographics such phones would target:
    the practical businessman
    the trendy student
    the gee-whiz technogeek

    Forget the average businessman, do you think the average fashion conscious teen would consider for a second holding a PDA sized phone up to their head and talking into to it? Half the appeal of cellular phones comes from their "cool" factor, and these days smaller is better seems to be the significant trend in phones. Frankly I can't see those combination PDA phones achieving any market penetration outside of the geek market. If the wireless is only for data, that's one thing, but you can't expect people to talk into these things.

    For my money, bluetooth PDA's paired with small, sleek cellular phones is where it's going to be at. You got a phone when you need a phone, and a PDA when you need a PDA, and not a gainly unsightly mess when you need either.

  16. Re:cool, but where is the phone? by mliu · · Score: 2

    I dunno about that. Of course it depends on the businessman, but as I understand it, maintaining a certain image is very much a part of the job of most businessmen. To a certain extent it doesn't matter how well things they use perform, they just have to impress the people at the meetings and clients when you pull them out.

    So it's not just simplicity and efficiency, but simplicity, efficiency, and image. And these PDA phones get killed on that last one. Or at least this is the story that I've heard about the way businessmen work, repeated many atime. Could it be just a case where conventional wisdom is a little off from reality?

    PS 802.11 really sucks the juice. Modern PDA's with color screens and fast processors have bad enough battery lives as it is (just look at this one). Bluetooth really seems like a more sensible choice in this arena.

  17. Some issues against this... by theridersofrohan · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Note that this is probably going to sound as an anti-sony rant (and in some ways, it is) but bear with me.


    Here are some issues against buying this:

    PalmOS5 The new OS is coming out soon (Q4). It only supports ARM cpus. This machine has a dragonball (m68k derivative) cpu. Will you give $600 for this and not be able to upgrade it to palmOS 5? You will not be able to run ARM apps either...

    Resolution support: Few apps support sony's 320x320 resolution (the one that older clies have). Very few support this one's. Sony seems to be flooding the market with new APIs when PalmOS 5 is going to tackle the screen size issue...

    Low battery life. The battery life on this is extremely low (4 hours AFAIK? check palminfocenter.com)

    Memory Stick. It's big (physical size), expensive, proprietary, and does not hold too much data. It locks you into an all exclusive and very expensive sony world. And don't forget the MagicGate sticks folks!

    Sony's ATRAC3 (the lovely DRM-enabled music format)

    Few peripherals. Palms, Visors, and even pocketpc enjoy a much greater variety of peripherals... A stowaway for your sony? A GPS module for your sony? Don't think so...


    sorry for ranting :)

    1. Re:Some issues against this... by mkoenecke · · Score: 2, Informative

      As a Clie owner (an "old" S300), thought I'd point out:

      1) OS5, by all accounts, is expected to add no new features to OS4, but be designed for the ARM. Also, with the installed base of Palm-compatible devices and apps, I really doubt creativity in the pre-OS 5 arena will go away very soon.

      2) The screen size issue, from what I've read, is an application issue, fairly easily resolved, even under OS 4.

      3) Low battery life is an issue with any color device. If you want better battery life, get mono.

      4) Memory sticks aren't big and are only slightly more expensive than (e.g.) CF. They are proprietary, which is indeed a strike against. Not hold too much data? I've got a 128 MB one in my Clie as we speak, which can be had for under $90. 256 should be coming out soon. Not much of a data issue; if you want to carry tons of MP3 albums, get a dedicated player.

      5) ATRAC3 is not an issue; it's only used with Sony's software. All you have to do is copy MP3's to the memory stick and it plays them just fine.

      6) True on the peripherals, but Sonys are relatively new to the market. More and more are appearing, but if you really need a GPS right now, early Clie adoption isn't for you.

      As for me, I really want an NR-70V. The V part will be fun (though, of course, not for serious photography).

      --
      TANSTAAFL
    2. Re:Some issues against this... by Wraithlyn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Memory Stick. It's big (physical size), expensive, proprietary, and does not hold too much data.

      Big?? You could lose one of these in a pack of gum. A sneeze could carry it away. I've seen people with bigger fingernails. What exactly is small?

      Expensive, and low data storage? I just ordered a 128MB stick for US $70 for my digital camera (DSC-P50, it rocks). Nearly 2MB per dollar for NV RAM? Pretty damn reasonable if you ask me.

      Proprietary? Unfortunately yes. But at least they're hawking something GOOD. And yes, SmartGate is indeed worrisome, luckily my camera doesn't support SmartGate :)

      However, I want to make a point that Sony are not total proprietary bastards. My DSC-P50 camera takes Sony's InfoLithium battery pack, but it ALSO takes standard AA size batteries, which means it can take NiMH rechargables, which kick ass. Kudos to Sony for not locking the P50 into a proprietary power source, which they could've easily done.

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
    3. Re:Some issues against this... by Keith+Russell · · Score: 4, Informative

      My $0.02:

      • PalmOS 5: Exactly! That's the #1 reason I'm not even considering one. #2 would be the fact that I already have an N760. :-)
      • Resolution: The included Hi-Res Assist converts text-heavy apps to the hi-res fonts, and pixel-doubles bitmaps, so most apps benefit automagically. And there are plenty of 320x320-aware apps out there now. 320x480 mode is another issue altogether. The only app that supports it out-of-the-box is PhotoStand?! Missed that boat. I wonder if they ever consuslted with HandEra on their virtual Graffiti support?
      • Battery life: Ugh. Runs contrary to the Zen of Palm. I guess that's what you get when you push a Dragonball that far. ARM-based chips are supposed to be better at power management, as long as the operating system doesn't squander the gains. *cough*PocketPC*cough*
      • Memory Stick/ATRAC3: I've combined these because I've lost count of the number of times I've had to clue-stick someone over this. It's smaller than all but SD, only fractionally more expensive than CF, cheaper than SD, no more difficult to license than consortium-controlled formats, and only CF is available in larger volumes (> 128MB). And, for the umpteenth time, you don't need MagicGate or ATRAC3 to listen to music! I repeat: You don't need MagicGate or ATRAC3 to listen to music! Dock, run MSImport, copy MP3s to /PALM/PROGRAMS/MSAUDIO, and enjoy. That's it. MagicGate is all but dead. ATRAC3 is back on MiniDisc, where it belongs.
      • Accessories: Sony's betwixt and between on that front. For Q1 2002, Sony leapfrogged Compaq and HP for #3 in handheld sales. So there's demand for periphials, right? Not exactly. Sony is still way behind Palm and Handspring. So they're outselling the best PocketPCs, but way behind on PalmOS. The fact that they switched connectors between the S/N-series and the T/NR-series didn't help. I think that, once Sony can convince accessory makers that the T/NR connector is the future, the market will open up.
      --
      This sig intentionally left blank.
    4. Re:Some issues against this... by mliu · · Score: 2

      There are GPS and cameras available here in Japan at least as well.

  18. ARM based linux pda by TechnoLust · · Score: 2

    If you can get your medical apps in Linux or Java, you could get a Sharp Zaurus SL-5500. I ordered one over a month ago and I LOVE IT! You can read about some of the things I've done with it in my journal.

    --
    "Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"
  19. Assuming you ar etalking about Linux... by biglig2 · · Score: 2

    ...I don't see any Linux ports to dragonball, so no.

    --
    ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
  20. Cool but.. by AppyPappy · · Score: 2

    Can you download a virus to it? If it doesn't duplicate everything in Outlook and totally screw my calendar, I'm not interested.

    --

    If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem

  21. Re:Mainstream? by Krieger · · Score: 2

    Not really, as that's a combination phone/pda.

    It all depends on what your looking for... and admitedly what I'm talking about are PDAs only.

    Marketing has a lot to do with it as well and what you can buy easily. I've seen Sony, Handspring, and Palm in different stores. I don't think I've ever seen a Handera device. I'm discounting the combo phone/pda's because they aren't what I consider a good technology mix. (right now at least)

  22. Palm VIIx etc. by gruntvald · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Everything Palm does is better done by other companies, but, damn it, why does no-one else do wireless internet? It's the only thing that keeps me on it.

  23. Re:apples and oranges by rosewood · · Score: 2

    i just dont need that much crap interupting me when all I wanna do is find a chick's phone #

    I like my palm vx cause it has extra stuff like avantgo to read news while Im taking a crap

  24. Incorrect Issues by jeremyf · · Score: 2, Informative
    I can't believe this guy got modded up. Do you guys mod up anyone who makes a bunch of crap up?

    • PalmOS5 will be out soon and that's the only truth this guy included in his post. However, this fact is pretty overrated. PDA's are not bought for their upgradability (or if they are, they are by stupid people); in fact, although most PDA's are upgradable today very few people actually upgrade them. The only PDA so far that has had a major upgrade released for it is the Compaq Ipaq, and there have been many problems with it. When you buy your PDA, buy it for what it can do out of the box, not what it can do in the future.
    • ALL apps support Sony's 320x320 resolution. If there's some bad programming in the app you can reset the Clie to work as if it were 160x160 resolution. If you mean few apps are built especially for Sony's 320x320 resolution, you're wrong again. It took a few months, but most popular apps are made especially for Sony's hi-res, including even many games. Even though the NR-series has only been out in the US for days, there are already programs popping up for the 480x320 resolution (which can still run any program ever fine).
    • It has approximately the same battery life as PPC devices. If you're waiting for PalmOS5 devices, you'll see around the same battery life, if not less.
    • The Memory Stick is the smallest flash media device available except for the extremely expensive Secure Digital format. Memory Sticks used to be expensive, but they're now about the same as Compact Flash. Note that Palm and PPC devices use the much more expensive SD (Secure Digital) format. Memory Stick and Secure Digital both have 128mb limits at the moment, so you're "does not hold too much data" argument is moot. Memory Stick is also not any more proprietary than the main competitor, Secure Digital. Sony was the developer of Memory Stick and pushes it, just like Panasonic (along with Toshiba) developed Secure Digital and pushes that. Both formats charge fairly large license fees. Non-Sony products are popping up all over that use Memory Sticks (especially in Japan). Portable and set-top DVD players, car stereos, and even Sony's next-gen WEGA Tv's have memory stick slots.
    • Sony has pretty much dropped MagicGate and ATRAC3 outside of asia. You don't need to touch either of these to get everything out of a clie.
    • Um, yes there are Stowaway keyboards for your Sony, and GPS devices for your clie, including one made by Sony themselves. There are plenty of accessories for Clies, which is the third biggest seller of PDA's in the United States. Handspring is dropping market share fast, so it won't be long until Sony is #2.

    • Sony makes the best Palm-based PDA's. The only downside to the NR-series, in my opinion, is the size (which isn't as big as Pocket PC's or even some PalmOS units, but is bigger than, say, Sony's T-series).
  25. Re:Price by i0lanthe · · Score: 2

    they can paint the brick with silver color

    The folks I know who are heavily into Sony are a lot more into "purple" than true silver. (go figure.) But aside from that, I have to agree ;-)

    --
    "The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life"
  26. Don't get it by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 2

    Other than the high-resolution screen, there isn't really much impressive about the new Clie. MP3? PocketPC has had that for 2 years. Fast processor? PocketPCs all have fast processors (206mhz StrongARM; some products have 400mhz XScale). Mini keyboard? Jornada + Stowaway costs the same as the Clie. Expandable memory? The Jornada has CF, as do most other PocketPCs.

    Oh, and yes, PocketPCs can even run Linux, XWindows, KDE, and even Konqueror. Check out handhelds.org; you don't even have to re-flash your device to do it anymore (you can have a dual-boot PocketPC).

  27. And it comes with the by geekoid · · Score: 2

    convienant, easy to use, snap off display! Young kids everywhere will love that feature.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  28. Slashdot needs a new icon by SeanAhern · · Score: 2

    This is offtopic, but...

    I can't believe how old Slashdot's icon for PalmOS features is! For a story about a kick-ass advanced PDA, having an icon showing 4-year old technology is just embarassing.

    (Okay, I don't know that it's 4 years old, but you know what I mean.)

  29. Re:I'm so sorry. by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 2

    My iPAQ only has 64MB of ram. I know of no Word document which will fit in that little memory.
    -russ

    --
    Don't piss off The Angry Economist
  30. Who is actually driving development of Palm OS? by Mr_Silver · · Score: 2
    The reason I ask is that according to the article there are no applications that support the new silkscreen area.

    Since there has been this type of silkscreen on the Handera for a while now I'm a little worried that both formats aren't compatible.

    Which would mean that you'd have to have different versions of one application for different PDA's.

    This was something that Microsoft had the issue with in regards to CPU's and eventually standardised on one type. Are we going to see this fragmentation of OS 4.x right up until 5.0 comes out to which everyone will come together again?

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