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Copyright Office Rejects CARP Recommendations

dave-fu writes "This just in: webcasters can breathe a sigh of relief as common sense and good taste has won out over stuffed suits and greased pockets--CARP has been rejected. If you weren't aware of it, CARP would have imposed exorbitant fees on webcasters, effectively killing webcasting radiostations, or at least preventing them from playing all (American) copyrighted music." See our previous story, or saveinternetradio.org, or read through the Copyright Office page linked above for background information. I wouldn't rejoice just yet - while webcasters argued that the proposed rates were way too high, the RIAA argued that they were way too low. There will still be royalty rates set by the Copyright Office, and the final rates may not be anything to cheer about.

153 comments

  1. Yes! by gleffler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is good, but like the article said, I think we need to continue campaigning to the LOC so that the royalty rates they DO set are reasonable. Nothing could kill off Internet radio like deathly royalties.
    /gleffler

    1. Re:Yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like the "Wolf" said in "Pulp Fiction"...

      "Let's not start sucking each other's dicks just yet"

    2. Re:Yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Metropolis isn't part of the RIAA and fully supports non-licensed web broadcasters - cuz it's free publicity. Check em out- good music to boot as well.

      http://www.metropolis-records.com/

  2. All I can say is... by Boulder+Geek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Librarians are the true modern heros. Go hug one today.

    --
    A well-crafted lie appears unquestionable - Dama Mahaleo
    1. Re:All I can say is... by Nessak · · Score: 1

      We know that today the Librarian's rejected the clearly extreame CARP proposals. But now the LOC has 30 days (untill June 20th) to issue a new ruling. It might not be as bad, but I don't think it is going to do anything good for non-profit broadcasters. Wait untill June 20th to do your hugging....

    2. Re:All I can say is... by CptNoSkill · · Score: 1

      Yea right. that's what got me in this jain cell in the first place...

    3. Re:All I can say is... by ethereal · · Score: 1
      --

      Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and

    4. Re:All I can say is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did, married one out of the SLIS Masters program out of UWO....never regretted it.
      Librarians....cuddly

    5. Re:All I can say is... by gamgee5273 · · Score: 2
      Librarians were responsible for my being laid-off last year. All I can say is that they're wannabe English majors who couldn't cut the the creative side of things...

      Oh, and you misspelled "heroes."

      And, yes, I was an English major. Have an English MA, too. How else do you think I ended up in the support business?

  3. And now that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...the CARP has gotten off the HOOK. The RIAA is hoping to catch a few suckers.

  4. Common Sense by Alizarin+Erythrosin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hopefully common sense will be used when setting rates. Internet broadcast requires more costs (in theory) then regular radio broadcasts.

    With regular radio broadcasts, the number of listeners has no impact on your ability to deliver content (in this case, music). With internet broadcasts, the more users you have, you need to have more bandwidth to be able to serve them content at the same data rate. In some (most?) cases more bandwidth leads to more expenditure of $$$.

    If the other expenses of internet radio stations are to be considered in setting of these royalty rates (which I think is BS in the first place, the RIAA is too damn greedy) I should hope they will use common sense and set them lower.

    --
    There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
    1. Re:Common Sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, 100,000 Watt antennas don't cost a dollar more than 3 Watt antennas. oh wait, scratch that.

    2. Re:Common Sense by cnkeller · · Score: 2
      Hopefully common sense will be used when setting rates. Internet broadcast requires more costs (in theory) then regular radio broadcasts.

      Hmmm....well, in theory, the costs of an FCC license and signal amplifiers, antennas, etc are pretty damn expensive as well. I'd be interested in a montly cost summary between the two if one existed. I have to believe that it's cheaper to run an Internet based station. Bandwidth isn't that expensive. Here in silicon valley, we're getting very competitive rates for full rate T1's (< $600) from Worldcom (are they bankrupt yet), Globix (are they bankrupt yet>), etc.

      Hmmm, maybe I don't have a good bandwidth point...

      Given the fact that anyone and everyone seems to have an internet radio station and that it takes some serious corporate money to deal with the FCC.....

      --

      there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots

    3. Re:Common Sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why over 30% of internet radio is done using Chaincast - it's a P2P network. Check out streamaudio.com, most (almost all) of their radio stations use it and according Arbitron they're big on the web.

    4. Re:Common Sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's really intersting is that radio broadcast stations aren't required to pay royalties. This was settled long ago; apparently the station provides a form of advertisement for the record company and therefore creates a demand for their product. In return no royalties are required. It sure seems that the same would apply in an even larger sense for internet web castings.

    5. Re:Common Sense by jd142 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, but oncce you have the 100,000 watt antennas, the cost of adding more users is shifted to the listener. It doesn't cost the radio station any more money to broadcast to 1,000 listeners, to 1,000,000 listeners, to 1,000,000,000 listeners, provided they all buy radios and can squeeze into the broadcast range.

      Here's an interesting question though: what is the theoretical limit on the number of receivers that can receive a tv or radio broadcast? I suppose part of it would have to do with the number, size and density of the antennas closest to the tower. The density of antennas would have to be so dense that all transmissions would be absorbed.

    6. Re:Common Sense by 56ker · · Score: 2

      Here in the U.K. only a handful (maybe two handfuls at most) of the hundreds of radio stations have web broadcasts. This is probably down to both cost & demand.

  5. What they would have required.... by lemonhed · · Score: 5, Informative

    The requirements under CARP

    A) The name of the service
    B) The channel of the program (AM/FM stations use station id)
    C) The type of program (Archived/Looped/Live)
    D) Date of Transmission
    E) Time of Transmission
    F) Time zone of origination of Transmission
    G) Numeric designation of the place of the sound recording within the program
    H) Duration of transmission (to nearest second)
    I) Sound Recording Title
    J) The ISRC code of the recording
    K) The release year of the album per copyright notice and in the case of compilation albums, the release year of the album and copyright date of the track
    L) Featured recording artist
    M) Retail album title
    N) The recording Label
    O) The UPC code of the retail album
    P) The catalog number
    Q) The copyright owner information
    R) The musical genre of the channel or program (station format)

    And a listener's log listing:
    1) The name of the service or entity
    2) The channel or program
    3) the date and time that the user logged in (the user's timezone)
    4) the date and time that the user logged out (the user's timezone)
    5) The time zone where the signal was received (user)
    6) Unique User identifier
    7) The country in which the user received the transmissions

  6. College radiostation's view by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is an air of relief for our college radiostation, because for a long time Internet has been our primary broadcasting medium. We were getting ready to find ways to recover our outreach, if our Internet outlet was cut off by CARP's rates.

    We don't get too wide of a listening audience (compared to your average commercial webcaster), but it's still important that Internet maintains a wide variety of webcasters.

    Note the article says that the final decision is to be made on June 20, so it's not over yet. We have put up flyers and a notice on our web page about the rates, but it's been difficult to raise awareness to this issue: most people just don't care.

    (sorry, anon at work..)

    1. Re:College radiostation's view by johnpaul191 · · Score: 3, Informative

      the whole thing is damn scary.... i work at WKDU in Philly. Drexel U college radio. we broadcast FM, but have also been webcasting for a few years. the requirements they wanted were financially impossible as well as technically. unlike crappy top 40 radio, we do not have a pre-pregrammed rotation of songs from a hard drive. we play records. many of the records are released by artists themselves and only 500 or 1,000 exist in the world. there is no way to send out the track data while the song is streaming when you play records. i would say over half of our DJs mostly play records. 90% of the reggae we have is from old 7"s, the dance DJs mix live during their sets, the punk DJs play CDs if the stuff is new, but our record library goes back to the 60s and is full of good vinyl. there is absolutately no way to digitize it.
      the regualtions they were/are shooting for are totally targetted at mainstream commercial stations. i think in the process they wanted to take out all small, low budget internet only stations.
      a few years ago we pondered ditching the music that is copywritten and therefore falls under this proposal. it's not really possible. a lot of indie music is registered, plus all it takes is one band doing one cover song to blow the whole thing. ARGH!
      hopefully the revised deal will make more sense to non-commercial stations.

    2. Re:College radiostation's view by joekool · · Score: 1

      just have to say, if you are streaming it, it IS digitized, so you may want to rethink some of that.

      On that note, what is the addy for your stream! It sounds like something I want!
      ;-}

      --

      Slackware: old school feel, new school gear.
  7. Why is the government involved? by crow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't the use of copyrighted works a matter of getting permission from the rights holder? Can't the rights holder insist on whatever royalty payment system he feels is appropriate?

    It may not be very nice, but if the RIAA wants to keep its music from being webcast, I don't see why the government should stop them. If they want to charge royalty rates that effectively do the same thing, that's their bad business decision.

    So why is the Copyright Office involved?

    1. Re:Why is the government involved? by doug_wyatt · · Score: 1

      Because the government steps in when technology disrupts previous mechanisms of copyright royalty payements, but the technology is deemed useful enough not to stifle. They did the same with radio, and there is a proposal from Verizon that they do it with _all_ content (music, movies) on the internet.

    2. Re:Why is the government involved? by Silverhammer · · Score: 5, Informative
      Isn't the use of copyrighted works a matter of getting permission from the rights holder? Can't the rights holder insist on whatever royalty payment system he feels is appropriate?

      17 USC 115. Scope of exclusive rights in nondramatic musical works: Compulsory license for making and distributing phonorecords

    3. Re:Why is the government involved? by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 1

      wooo....I would certainly pay 10 bucks more to keep the corperates out of my face :-)

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
    4. Re:Why is the government involved? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The government is already involved. Copyright is a government granted monopoly, so without the government stepping in, the copyright holder has nothing.

      Copyright is not an unlimited monopoly; the copyright statute contains lots of of exceptions including fair use and compulsory licenses. For example if you want to make your own recording of a song someone else wrote, the copyright holder is required by law to grant you a license to do so.

    5. Re:Why is the government involved? by Rasvar · · Score: 2

      So why is the Copyright Office involved?

      Uhhhhm, why wouldn't they be? Copyright is a governmental creation. It is part of the Constitution. Without this, there is no "Copyright." It is up to government, according to the Constitution, to set up the rules as to how copyright works. No government, no copyright.

    6. Re:Why is the government involved? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sn't the use of copyrighted works a matter of getting permission from the rights holder? Can't the rights holder
      > insist on whatever royalty payment >system he feels is appropriate?

      Not at all. Royalties wouldn't exist w/o the gov't interfering in the free market. W/o the gov't, people could use any one's ideas w/o gov't interference. Who do you think oversees all the lawsuits that occur when 'piracy' occurs? The gov't.

      > It may not be very nice, but if the >RIAA wants to keep its music from being webcast, I don't see why the
      > government should stop them. If they

      Then lock it up and don't put it out there. Otherwise people are going to do things w/ it that they don't like. That's life. Then they are going to have to whine to the gov't for handouts, free enforcement for this dubious enterprise in ways that it we haven't see before. Let's go back to the old ways where the gov't stays out of this completely. Then internet radio would be totally free of fees. The gov't is messing things up by enforcing these copyrights for free. Let the RIAA hire their own police force.

      >want to charge royalty rates that effectively do >the same thing, that's their
      > bad business decision.

      But it's a gov't decision when they gov't gets involved. You have to pick, either the gov't 'gets out of there business' and we have lots of piracy or the gov't gets involved and decides things that you thought might only be business decisions.

  8. Good, but... by Sc00ter · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As much as CARP sucks, there needs to be some form of payment for commercial internet radio stations to some degree. Otherwise this would give the internet radio stations and advantage over the normal stations. I don't see why they just couldn't use the same ASCAP/BMI stuff that they use for normal radio and apply it to internet radio also.

    One thing that lots of the places seemed to bitch about was the tracking of the listeners. Now, I know that they wanted it to be retroactive to the DMCA and that's just stupid, but from say now on, what's the big deal? Can't a log parser do this in no time? Just track unique hosts or something like that. If they just needed numbers it should be a no brainer, even something like webalizer can give you those numbers if you set it up right.

    1. Re:Good, but... by akb · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't see why they just couldn't use the same ASCAP/BMI stuff that they use for normal radio and apply it to internet radio also.

      Web radio stations are already supposed to pay ASCAP/BMI, this is on top of and far more than those fees.

      I wish people would take it upon themselves to be more informed before posting.

    2. Re:Good, but... by sphix42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >>there needs to be some form of payment for commercial internet radio stations to some degree. Otherwise this would give the internet radio stations and advantage over the normal stations

      And how's that? I can't get internet radio in my car. I only listen to the radio at home for very specific programs (prairie home companion, car talk...).

      I use internet radio when I'm buried in a building with bad reception and I have something specific I want to listen to (9/11 coverage) or when I am looking for a very specific genre.

      Do air-wave radio stations track the number of listeners at any particular time? Not that I know of.

      During Diane Rehm's show yesterday, the riaa said they would go lower on licensing costs if they 'liked' the radio station. Because of that comment, I now feel the riaa wants these high music tariffs so they can use them as payola. If you play music they like, they drop your costs (possibly to 0), but if they don't, you pay the way-to-much amount and are forced out of business.

      What's good for the goose is good for the gander....if internet radio must pay fees, they must be equal to those paid my commercial stations _without_ enronaccounting (formerly known as payola).

    3. Re:Good, but... by Mister+Furious · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Traditional broadcasters don't have to pay these CARP type fees. For traditional broadcasters, the record labels consider airplay to be promotion, and therefore waive royalty fees. With webcasting they claim that it is distribution, and not broadcasting and that they therefore should recieve royalty payments. Unfortunately, the DMCA backs this up.

    4. Re:Good, but... by Sc00ter · · Score: 2
      The only thing I was saying about the tracking was that people made it sound that it would be next to impossible, that they would need extra staff to do it. I just didn't understand what was so hard about implementing the tracking. I think it's kinda silly, but I don't think it would be a burden for the internet station, as the logs should be taking care of most of it already.

    5. Re:Good, but... by StandardDeviant · · Score: 2

      I think that saying the commercial internet radio stations have an advantage over commercial radiative stations (assuming, for the moment, that the internet commercial stations aren't just divisions of a traditional, pump-out-radio-waves place) is not as obviously true as you may assume. They are related but fairly different enterprises.

      Internet radio stations have lower equipment costs to broadcast, but their users have much higher equipment costs to listen (the cheapest computer you'll be able to use to listen to a net stream will probably set you back 250-350 american dollars, not to mention the cost of net access, and how much does a decent little am/fm thing cost? maybe 20 bucks?). Also, for a net radio station to reach and service the same number of potential users as a 100,000 watt radio tower (which could be in the tens to hundreds of thousands depending on where the tower is), I'm betting the bandwidth costs would far exceed the FCC frequency license... Staff costs would be about the same, as would things like office space.

      So, basically, it's not a trivial thing to compare sound-broadcast-places that use different mediums of transmission, because each one has fundamentally different economic constraints.

      With regard to tracking listeners, this is far less trivial than you would assume. A simple log parser isn't going to do it (... to the standard of precision they wanted, anyway). Hell, all of AOL shows up as coming from a handful of IPs in west virginia. NATing gateways are common, so that one IP could be a college kid in Nebraska or thirty people in a branch office in Texas or ...

    6. Re:Good, but... by Surak · · Score: 2

      For traditional broadcasters, the record labels consider airplay to be promotion, and therefore waive royalty fees.

      I worked for a radio station. No, the record labels do not waive royalty fees for traditional broadcasters. Traditional broadcasters are required to pay royalties to ASCAP/BMI which in turn gives some of that to the record companies and some to the songwriters They keep a log of what songs have been played and then pay a small (in cents) royalty everytime a song is played.

      What CARP seeks to do is have a fee over and above that because users can capture the streams to a file and (theoretically) have a flawless reproduction of the original.

    7. Re:Good, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The CARP requirements were much more onerous than you make them out to be.

    8. Re:Good, but... by Rasvar · · Score: 2

      What CARP seeks to do is have a fee over and above that because users can capture the streams to a file and (theoretically) have a flawless reproduction of the original.

      Unfortunately, CARP does not do anything to break out something for "non-flawless" broadcasts. I work on a four hour live streaming video show that uses music. We don't use full quality audio in the stream because of the video. However, we are still treated as if we are transmitting CD quality. No one could make a decent copy from the audio we send out. We don't mind paying a reasonable fee, like ASCAP/BMI/SESAC but CARP was horrid in both cost and reporting. Heck, ours is a totally donation funded show with no advertising. CARP would have been instant death for us. I am hoping for something a little more reasoned.

    9. Re:Good, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is CARP only distinguishing those liable for it's fees that the transmission is "non-flawless"/digital in quality? If so, why isn't Radio XM susceptible to it's fees as well? Or for that matter the digital audio broadcasts coming over DirectTV and Dish Network? Many of the webcasters encrypt their streams of data or the files that are being sent, to minimize the ability to capture the music from the broadcast without degradation anyway. I don't see a lot of difference as it is just a matter of time where some MP3/Radio XM receiver on a car will allow capture of digital streams it is receiving that would be pretty much equivalent of grabbing webcasters' streams?

    10. Re:Good, but... by bushing · · Score: 1
      One thing that lots of the places seemed to bitch about was the tracking of the listeners. Now, I know that they wanted it to be retroactive to the DMCA and that's just stupid, but from say now on, what's the big deal? Can't a log parser do this in no time? Just track unique hosts or something like that. If they just needed numbers it should be a no brainer, even something like webalizer can give you those numbers if you set it up right.
      That's just it. The reporting requirements are the worst part. At our radio station, the extra fees would "only" add up to several hundred dollars per year -- not fun, but it wouldn't sink the station.

      We play an eclectic range of material -- much of which comes in the mail, unsolicited, directly from the artist, and some of which is brought in by the DJs. We have no sort of centralized tracking system for our 10,000+ records/CDs... many of which were never actually published through traditional channels, and hence can't easily be cataloged according to the CARP recomendations.

      To even begin to comply, we would have to locate and key in information for each and every one of those albums. Then, we'd have to track what's played -- but as we're not a top-40s station with a small playlist, individual DJs have quite a free hand in choosing what they play, and we're only now beginning to move from pencil and paper to a computerized database to record track titles and artist names; even that is fraught with problems.

      To comply with the law as proposed, our only option would be to stop streaming while we tried to pay someone to implement all of the above -- which likely would never happen, and we'd lose literally thousands of regular listeners.

    11. Re:Good, but... by Kalvos · · Score: 1

      what's the big deal? Can't a log parser do this in no time? Just track unique hosts or something like that. If they just needed numbers it should be a no brainer, even something like webalizer can give you those numbers if you set it up right.

      Not everybody's a newcomer. We've been doing this since September 1995 at Kalvos & Damian's New Music Bazaar -- three years before the DMCA and more than seven years before the CARP proposal.

      During that time we have gone through six different servers, four of which are long gone along with their logs -- including one which carried web logs during the retroactive CARP period.

      Furthermore, we archive shows that contain upwards of 15 compositions per show. We don't stream using a streaming server, but via HTTP. A cable connection would download most or all of a show, even though a listener might click off after our opening 10-minute essay. The logs would report 15 songs, even though none would actually be listened to.

      And what of listeners that skipped through the show for one piece? The logs still report 15-25 compositions.

      The CARP rules were unworkable. A blanket and reasonable license is a much better approach. The industry was really shaking down the cybercasting scene to consolidate power; the royalties were cream.

      Dennis

  9. Shooting themselves in the perverbial foot... by MikeOttawa · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The problem with regulating internet technolgies with legislation is that the technology required can be moved to any location.

    If the United States makes it illegal/expensivie to operate an internet radio station, the radio station can simply move its servers to another location (lets say Canada or UK) where the regulation doesn't exist (yet). There is no visible effect on the service to the user, and the American government successfully alienates another new technology. In the mean time other contries will benefit from the short-sightedness of another.

    In the end, you cannot continue to support an outmoded business model with legislation and regulation (if this worked in the past it certainly won't work in a "Global Economy").

  10. This is VERY Good News by floppy+ears · · Score: 4, Informative

    The CARP fees were totally outrageious. Their purpose was (or, is) to destroy Internet radio. This would leave the major labels with virtually no competition to their radio monopoly.As an independent artist, it's good to hear at least some occasional good news.

    --

    "If I could live to be several hundred
    I could take a walk and really wander, really wonder."
    1. Re:This is VERY Good News by Sc00ter · · Score: 2
      As an independent artist I would think you would want CARP. That way you could give internet stations your music for free or for whatever you want them to pay since it's your music, not the RIAA's. If anything this would be great for people like you, because internet stations would be starving for content (not being able to play RIAA music) and people like you could fill the void.

    2. Re:This is VERY Good News by floppy+ears · · Score: 1

      I hope you are right. Unfortunately I think it's more likely that if CARP fees end up being too high, it will just kill Internet radio altogether, and I will be left without the one distribution channel that will currently play my music.

      --

      "If I could live to be several hundred
      I could take a walk and really wander, really wonder."
    3. Re:This is VERY Good News by gad_zuki! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Internet radio wouldn't be starving for content they would be starving for cash. Which most likely means they would have to adopt a top-40 format to meet those fees. Which of course would kill any variety in internet radio.

      I don't think its mere coincidence that the RIAA gives its own people (broadcast radio) a price break when doing internet radio. This has all been a ploy to eliminate non-wealthy competitors and further the profitable (for the RIAA) top-40 format and its handful of artists.

      Thanks but not thanks.

  11. Did capitalism take a nap? by blair1q · · Score: 5, Insightful

    while webcasters argued that the proposed rates were way too high, the RIAA argued that they were way too low.

    That made something click, here.

    It seems to me that, rather than getting the producer and consumer together to negotiate a fair-market price, the RIAA lobbied to get the government to impose a price.

    For how long has the music economy been socialist? Is our intolerance of the RIAA limited to its bullying and selfishness, or can it be extended to this attempt to corrupt the freedom of commerce itself?

    --Blair

    1. Re:Did capitalism take a nap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, by some analyes, they are meeting in restraint of trade to even have a RIAA. But clearly there is no willingness to enforce the Sherman Antitrust Act on these big political donors.

    2. Re:Did capitalism take a nap? by bnenning · · Score: 2
      For how long has the music economy been socialist?


      For quite a while. This is hardly their first attack on the free market. The DMCA and whatever the SSSCA is called this week are blatantly anti-capitalist; their primary goal is to use government guns to protect their outdated business models from new competitors.

      --
      How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
    3. Re:Did capitalism take a nap? by elefantstn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You miss a huge point here: if the music economy were truly capitalist, there would never have been independent internet radio because the RIAA could simply refuse to license their content. What is at issue here is compulsory licensing: the government requires that the RIAA license their content to anyone who wants to broadcast it, and they set the fee.

      To reiterate: This is not the government propping up the RIAA with subsidies. If the RIAA had their way, there would be no fee at all, because they would only license content to their subsidiaries. The government steps in on behalf of independent broadcasters to force the RIAA to license to everyone, and they are arguing over how much the cost of that should be.

      --
      If it ain't broke, you need more software.
    4. Re:Did capitalism take a nap? by ethereal · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, if our society was truly capitalist, maybe there wouldn't be copyright law in the first place. The existence of a law to provide (with varying degrees of success) a reward for the creation of new content is, when you think about it, more socialist than capitalist.

      --

      Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and

    5. Re:Did capitalism take a nap? by afidel · · Score: 1

      ACtually in a perfect capatalist economy the RIAA would not exist as collusion could not happen.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    6. Re:Did capitalism take a nap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Pass a bill to outlaw webcasters is an idea from J. Jonah Jameson to stop Spiderman.

    7. Re:Did capitalism take a nap? by Sloppy · · Score: 2

      It seems to me that, rather than getting the producer and consumer together to negotiate a fair-market price, the RIAA lobbied to get the government to impose a price.

      For how long has the music economy been socialist?

      For as long as there has been compulsory licensing, where anyone can bypass the owner and the need to negotiate.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    8. Re:Did capitalism take a nap? by Ig0r · · Score: 2

      If the music economy were truly capitalist, the RIAA wouldn't lobby congress to force broadcasters to pay the RIAA even if the songs played aren't owned by RIAA member labels.

      --
      Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
    9. Re:Did capitalism take a nap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heh. In a perfect capitalist economy, the music labels would not be able to associate together in order to conspire to keep the cost of CD's, internet radio, etc. artificially high.

  12. As pointed out in a previous discussion... by hiryuu · · Score: 1

    ...or maybe another location, but something to bear in mind. Yeah, when something is played on good ol' airwave radio, the songwriter is paid. But the labels aren't being paid by the stations when a song is played - rather, the labels are paying the stations for (effectively? you decide) promoting their music. I still haven't figured out why the RIAA thinks they should be paid for webcasters promoting music that may or may not be from RIAA-stable artists. They're not getting that out of airwave radio.

    --
    Karma: Excellent, but still won't get you laid.
    1. Re:As pointed out in a previous discussion... by terrymr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The difference is that when radio was getting started in the music playing business congress decided that it was a promotion tool for the record industry and exempted radio from paying royalties to the record labels.

      However now that the record industry has it's lobbying worked out congress suddenly realised that internet radio is really about stealing from the record industry instead of promotion.

    2. Re:As pointed out in a previous discussion... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it is a simple thing, really. When they get paid by both artists (for radio promotion) and by webcasters (royalties), they get more money. No more to it. I suggest reading When elephants dance.

  13. Good news indeed by Our+Man+In+Redmond · · Score: 2

    but definitely, this is just a lull in the skirmish. Time to reload and keep the pressure on for equitable royalties (equitable to the performers and to the webcasters).

    --
    Someone you trust is one of us.
  14. What Next? by Phred_Johnston · · Score: 1

    It appears from the order that over the next 30 days, the Libraian of Congress has the job of determining the licensing charges that will be the final descision.
    Does anyone have an idea of what the counter proposal to the CARP recommendations will be?

  15. Bad for indepent music by crow · · Score: 2

    If the RIAA gets royalty rates that effectively shut down webcasts of music it controls, then that would be good news for anyone wanting to webcast independent or unsigned artists. Sure, you could set up an Internet radio station that only plays non-RIAA music, but you wouldn't get much attention with all the other stuff there.

    Of course, if people start listening to non-RIAA stuff online, the RIAA will rethink their royalty system.

    1. Re:Bad for indepent music by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I started listening to 3wk.com at work recently for the hell of it and was surprised to find out how different it was. First of all, unlike FM, there are no noisy stretches of cheesy LOUD and painful commercials from local businesses like tire salesmen and ripoff dating services. Once in a while a guy with a creepy voice comes on and gives a little spiel about the RIAA and how you should write your Senator, but that's it. And instead of hearing the same mass marketed tiny selection of force-fed boy band / Britney Spears garbage that every FM station pummels you with over and over again, I didn't recognize many of the songs at all. I think it is a mixture of RIAA and non-RIAA artists. Some of it was crap. But a few songs were were really good, enough that I wrote down the artist/album/song title that the site displays while each song is playing. For about half of them, you don't even need a spyware-riddled p2p client to find MP3s- just use Google to find the band's web site and download MP3s right from there completely legally. You can hear what each track on their album sounds like before you decide whether or not to buy it.

      You would be surprised how many decent artists never get picked up by the cartel.

  16. NPR Coverage by sphix42 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Diana Rehm covered this yesterday. There's an audio link here

    1. Re:NPR Coverage by gregormarkowitz · · Score: 1
      Listen to the transcript. I'm the second caller. They literally cut me off when I started to comment that the broadcast stations should also pay the artists.

      BMI, ASCAP, and SESAC have reasonable rates, yet still pay the composers well. This is because all users of the music share the payment burden, not just the webcaster alone.

      Having the webcasters alone pay all the singers is like making only Volkswagon drivers pay for all the gasoline for every car on the highway.

  17. Same Rates as Broadcasters! by zentec · · Score: 4, Interesting


    Webcasters want the same rates as normal broadcasters. That is, they pay a percentage of gross sales.

    So, if an Internet radio station has sales of zero, then they pay zero. If they have gross sales of a million bucks, then they pay the same fee as broadcasters that have gross sales of 5 million dollars.

    1. Re:Same Rates as Broadcasters! by zentec · · Score: 1


      Uh, well...the same rate as if the Internet broadcasters made the same rate as normal OTA broadcasters.

      You get the idea....

  18. an accounting nigthmare by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Good thing this was rejected. It would have been an accounting impossibility.

    I run a net-radio over UDP. Which means, I know how many packets I send out, but not how many are recieved by listeners, or even how many people are trying to listen (if someone changes the station, we may not be notified). Additionally, we can send to independent retransmission sites that relay it onto even more listeners. Commercial radio stations get reasonalby accurate statistics on listenership. We can't. How could we make a good-faith guess at our numbers?

    1. Re:an accounting nigthmare by farrellj · · Score: 2

      Radio Stations get their numbers, at least in Canada, from a survey group that then publishes "The Book", which gives a reasonably accurate accounting of what numbers a station has in listenership.

      They would have to do the same thing in an international forum to get similar type numbers...and I doubt that they are willing to spend the money to do so.

      ttyl
      Farrell

      --
      CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
  19. How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How do traditional radio stations track thier listners?

    I assume they don't/can't. So why and what purpose does tracking internet users serve?

    I assume someone will say they do it based on the radio stations "power" and the desity of the population, but I've been driving at night in Idaho and picked up radio stations from Denver, CO.

    And how is this new XM radio paying royalties?

  20. Internet radio by jhughes · · Score: 1

    Where I live (the middle of no freaking where) I can get two radio stations. Therefore, Internet radio is a huge blessing to me. One of my favorite stations is an anime music one, so I listen to that constnatly. When this CARP stuff came to my attention it wa the first time I have ever written to a congressman.

    I for one am glad that this got shot down and hopefully something more sensible comes up.

    For the record: With internet radio I've tuned into a number of different anime shows and bought some DVDs and I am activly seeking out some of the shows dvds.
    Without internet radio i'd never have had the ability to get exposed to hard to find music and therefore couldn't buy anything.
    :)

    1. Re:Internet radio by jhughes · · Score: 1

      >>seeking out some of the shows dvds.
      that should be cds.

      I kin typ, relly!

  21. Good news... but by tezzery · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is definitely good news. At least it proves that the copyright office won't be easily swayed by the RIAA's demands. As far as the whole independent music thing goes, i believe it's a very good thing for independent music.. in the longrun that is. The bad thing is that if the approved rates are outrageous, the only stations that will be able to afford them are the ones backed by big companies such as broadcast.com and spinner.. etc. which is pretty much the same thing that happened to FM radio with monsters like clearchannel buying out all the small stations. They're the reason why there's 5 cookie-cutter station formats around the country. The good thing is that maybe this is a wake-up call to artists/labels and independent stations/media. Maybe it's finally time to move away from cookie-cutter programming and pay attention to independent labels and artists.. We've already made a big move with the Internet by overcoming the RIAA's monopoly with distributors, and college/internet stations have always done it to a certain extent.. True, at first listeners might not pay attention to it. But give it a few years.. This is only the beginning.

    1. Re:Good news... but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a cautionary celebration, everyone should spend the rest of the day listening to nothing but net radio. Then again---maybe not ever go back to conventional radio, home of "kiss", "mix", "the fox", "the hawk","good times & great oldies", "---- country", and all those other generic formats of 300 songs each(if that many) that make every city's radio dial sound exactly the same

  22. i don't wanna live in a pay-per-view society by eg0n · · Score: 1

    royalty rates of fractions of pennies ($.0014) as the CARP originally proposed is not the way that things should work. not that i have the answer as to how they should work, but i will not participate in pay-per-use/view media. just drop CD prices and let the public do the advertising for your sorry asses. the promotional value of a song that someone enjoys hearing for free is worth far more than $.0014.

    --
    i just climb trees, and look for rhythm everywhere.
  23. Check http://www.kurthanson.com/ for more info. by dave-fu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    kurthanson.com is the homepage for the Radio and Internet Newsletter (RAIN), a fine spot for up-to-date information on what's going on in the world of webcasting.
    Found both of these links at WFMU, aka numero uno webcasting radio station in the world.
    Gotta love the fact that the RIAA wants to see that webcasters pay fees on top of the ASCAP/BMI fees that "real" radio stations do without getting any of the payola.
    At any rate, it'll be interesting to see what the Librarian of Congress does in the next 30 days.

    --
    Easy does it!
    This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
  24. one of these days ... by dlasley · · Score: 1

    ... my wife is going to get really mad at me for all the CDs i buy after listening to Radio Paradise. i think this site has caused more havoc in my checking account than any other music-related stimulus since the advent of the CD player!

    as several posters mentioned, we can't view this as a victory - not yet, probably not ever. the RAC has many fights ahead, and anyone who listens to internet radio should try to help: details here.

    --
    when it rains, it gets real soggy. when it pours, i'm under the tap just _waiting_ for the joy
  25. Whatever happened to MBONE? by dschuetz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As an aside, whatever happened to the multicast backbone? I seem to recall that "they" were working on some kind of an IP-level packet redistribution service (my words) that would enable an application to tell its closest router "hey, I wanna listen to 244.123.45.6", and it'd then ask it's upstream router the same thing, etc., until it was able to get a copy of the stream routed to the requesting client.

    Or something remotely like that.

    Anyway, it seemed like a terrific idea, 'cause the content provider wouldn't have to server a thousand different, unique streams, all with the same content -- it'd just send a single stream to an MBone address, and anyone who wanted to receive it could ask for it.

    I just did a quick check on it, and only found 6-year-old FAQs and such. Has it died? Has it been overcome by events with IPv6?

    I ask 'cause it occurred to me that any webcaster broadcasting on mbone wouldn't be *able* to tell how many people were listening. A sort of end-run around some of CARP, as it were...

    1. Re:Whatever happened to MBONE? by KenFury · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Someone should send that message up to 3 at least. I found it intersting and too many ppl browse at 3 to get past the auto 2 for karma

    2. Re:Whatever happened to MBONE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      MBONE used multicast which requires routers (and administration at the ISP's) capable of multicast.

      Most ISP's just don't do it.

      The alternatives out there are peer to peer networks like Chain Cast that are working ok.

    3. Re:Whatever happened to MBONE? by akb · · Score: 3, Informative

      The original MBONE's routing architecture wasn't scalable. More sophisticated routing schemes have been devised fairly recently but to my knowledge there are next to no ISPs that offer multicast connectivity to consumers.

      Marshal Eubanks of Multicast Tech did an interview on cnet radio (go here and search for multicast) he was pretty optimistic about multicast being deployed. He gave the startling figure that 20% of broadband users had access to the multicast internet. I was shocked by this because I have scoured the 'net looking for a consumer isp that would offer it to consumers and haven't found anything. Anyone have any info?

    4. Re:Whatever happened to MBONE? by TheSync · · Score: 2

      Multicast keeps going. There are now many multicast connected IPV4 networks exchanging MBGP routes, but yes, very few networks multicast down to the end-user.

      I've asked a few Internet2 people about multicast, and while the backbone certainly is, the "last mile" to users often is not.

      I was recently working for a company that was delivering multicast webcasts from major streaming providers over satellite to ISPs. But most of us were laid off, I don't know what is going on now.

      There are a few companies to help you get going with multicast such as Multicast Technologies. Also the GEANT network in Europe is multicast capable. And here is a list of active SDR listings, kind of a "tv guide" for multicast.

    5. Re:Whatever happened to MBONE? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen this done for some private industrial communications setups; nothing commercially available yet, and nothing over the public MBONE though.

      AC 'cause this isn't really public yet (I don't think).

  26. My evil plot by WellHungYungWun · · Score: 1

    Now I can continue my evil plot to deliver subliminal messages to webcast listeners to buy M$ products. hee hee who who ha ha ha ha!!

    --
    "On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."
  27. We can rejoice! A victory for the Net Generation by Discoteck · · Score: 1

    I did my part and wrote my senator and Representative asking them to not pass the CARP recommendations. I am happy that they came to their senses and rejected that awful proposal. Still it is something to think about that the government is becoming more aware of how information is exchanged on the net and working to pass FAIR and JUST laws to regulate it. I think this type of legislation will only take time to eventually be implemented.

    A search on google for Internet Radio Returns 2,660,000 Hits. This is some indication of how popular Internet Radio is becoming. I tried to gather places on the Net whom have added the wonderful news to their site already, but it seems the only one I can find at the moment is the link given and this one Radio And Internet Newsletter.

    --
    /.................../ \\ /...................../
  28. I use carp all the time by Jonny+Ringo · · Score: 1

    Man that sucks I use carp quite often. It really helps see my error on my cgi scripts. Oh wait.. What are you talking about?

  29. Why is this backwards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shouldnt the only people who are making money are the radio stations? I mean, to play them on the net is advertising, and the RIAA should be paying them to play the songs. Infact, the stations should charge .10 per play per song from the RIAA .. And just play whatever songs they want otherwise.. If the RIAA pays for certain songs to be played more, then they would of course get preference.. And then there are the Advertisements, since the Net is techincally larger, the advertisers should be paying the radio stations almost double for the net stations to play them.. The stations shouldnt have to pay ANYONE except their ISP for bandwidth.

    1. Re:Why is this backwards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Could your ignorance of the broadcasting system get any worse? 1) The radio stations need to play the songs to get people to listen. Why? So they can show their current and future advertisers that they have the ears that make it worth while for them to pay the station money to run the ads. This ad money is what keeps the station alive. Ads pay for everything, employee salaries and song royalties. To the station, the ability to play a popular song is a need, a resource, and is worth paying for. 2) In fact the big music companies already routinely pay up front to have their latest songs played. But not all songs, just the new ones and only for a period of time.

      It's a very complex and timeworn system. The only outrageous thing here was the disproportionate level of net broadcasting royalties compared to over the air. If the royalties were lowered to be the same as on-air. The broadcasters would be more than happy to pay them to increase their ears and so their ad revinue.

  30. finally by azadism · · Score: 0

    Wow, the little man finally won a round with the big corporate pirates. The fight is not over yet, but this appears to be a good sign. Keep on fightn

  31. Waitaminnit! by grytpype · · Score: 4, Funny

    I read the Librarian of Congress's order, and it doesn't say WHY the CARP recommendation was rejected. Nor could I find a press release explaining the decision, although there might be one forthcoming.

    You're all assuming that the LoC wants Internet radio to be free, or cheaper than CARP wanted, but that might not be the case! Maybe the LoC wants HIGHER royalty rates!

    --

    - Have a picture

    1. Re:Waitaminnit! by Atlantix · · Score: 1

      Well, as it pretty clearly states on the website, this order rejects the CARP rates and the librarian has 30 days to file a full report explaining the order.

      --Atlantix

    2. Re:Waitaminnit! by grytpype · · Score: 2

      Right, and does the LoC want lower rates, or higher rates?

      --

      - Have a picture

  32. Copyright Office Rejects CARP Recommendations... by Uri · · Score: 0

    ...says "something smells fishy!"

  33. no by jacobm · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Neither side was happy about the proposed fees. This announcement just means the stakes have been raised.

    --
    -jacob
  34. probably good for independant music by pixel+fairy · · Score: 1

    indy music wont have any competition from the riaa bands. there will be a pretty clear dividing line here that may persuade some artists to not sign up with a corporate label if they otherwise would. if internet radio becomes a big oulet for music, these artists would not want to miss out on it.

    of course as soon as that started happening, the RIAA would clammor for internet broadcasting licenses, audits of broadcasters a la BSA, and/or whatever else they do to destroy anyone that threatens thier monopoly. but that doesnt mean they will suceed.

  35. Hug a librarian by Jaeger · · Score: 3, Funny

    I will, but maybe that's just because my fiancée just got accepted into a masters of library science program.

  36. Damn by sulli · · Score: 1

    Hiroshima fans will be pissed that their team has been rejected!

    --

    sulli
    RTFJ.
  37. Encouraging people into piracy... by purpledinoz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So if the RIAA forces these high royalties on internet radio stations, then there'll be less stations to listen to, less variety, so less people will be satisfied with the selection. Soooooo, that would just encourage more people to just download MP3s so they can listen to what they want...

    Don't screw the customers, or the customers will screw you.

    1. Re:Encouraging people into piracy... by Tiado · · Score: 2, Informative
      So if the RIAA forces these high royalties on internet radio stations, then there'll be less stations to listen to, less variety, so less people will be satisfied with the selection. Soooooo, that would just encourage more people to just download MP3s so they can listen to what they want...

      The RIAA also wanted to make the distribution of MP3 impossible by firing through the SSSCA to implement technology limitations that keep you from copying ANY music, also they wanted to plunge their dirty hands into the making of the Homeland Security bill. Their contribution to the bill was to make music to be considered "an act of terrorism" [I had a link to a news article but now I can't find it].

      So any way you look at it, if (when?) the RIAA has their way, you'll have no choice except to be stuck with them.

  38. I love hearing from unaware people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "It may not be very nice, but if the RIAA wants to keep its music from being webcast, I don't see why the government should stop them"

    It may not be very nice, but if I want to copy a friend's CD, I don't see why the government should stop me.

    You see, Copyright isn't a natural right, it is done by legislative fiat. Thus, part of what you "give up" for copyright and DMCA protection is the government get to tell you how you can apply those right.

    If you don't like it, then don't apply for the copyright. "Oh dear" you say, "Then I have no protection". Well yes, that's the point. If you want the FBI to be your copyright militia, then you have to play by their rules.

    Remember, there is no RIGHT to a copyright.

  39. Newsbytes article by EReidJ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here is a Newsbytes story on the ruling. A little bit more hard-news information about the decision and its likely impact.

  40. Another naive comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Otherwise this would give the internet radio stations and advantage over the normal stations"

    Web stations already have the enormous handicap that you have to be in a fixed location to listen. Radio stations can be picked up by a $1 radio that you buy at a souvenier shop.

    If you don't get the advantage that is, then you don't understand jack. no offense.

  41. whooo hooo!! This is great =) I've been campaigning for months to keep net radio from dying.

    --
    I ate my sig.
  42. StreamRipper by Tommy_S · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The nice thing about internet radio is the ability to use something like StreamRipper and save every song, properly named and tagged, as a .mp3 file. I've been doing a lot of this recently as it appeared internet radio was perhaps about to end and I wanted to snatch up a bunch of the music while I still had the chance. I'm on a high speed connection, so last week for a couple days I was actually running 5 instances of StreamRipper at once, each connected to a different "radio station". Within just a couple work days I had snagged multiple gigabytes of 128kbit mp3 files. I think what I've just described is why the RIAA and such are making such a fuss.

    1. Re:StreamRipper by beme · · Score: 1

      That might be one reason, but I think the biggest reason behind the attempt to squash independent web radio is promotion. Radio is still a big way for the RIAA to promote bands and concerts. To them and the evil that is Clear Channel, _any_ competition (read, consumer choice) is a bad thing.

      --

      -beme
      1971
  43. Current CARP rejected, ruling due in 30 days. by rustman · · Score: 4, Informative

    You may have read today that the Librarian of Congress, based upon the recommendation of the Register of Copyrights, issued an Order rejecting the Panel's determination proposing rates and terms for these licenses. In such cases, the law provides that the Librarian shall issue his final determination within 30 days of his decision to reject the Panel's proposed rates and terms. The final determination is due on June 20, 2002.

    We hope this means that the Librarian has realized that not all current parties were properly represented at the CARP hearings, and the proposed rates and reporting requirements were unreasonable and did not represent a market rate.

    Webcasters want a royalty rate that is fair and equitable to all sides - a rate based on revenues, in the 3% range, much like the royalties paid to the composers of the songs now through ASCAP and BMI. The rejected proposal would have killed the market by wiping out most if not all of the industry.

    Webcasters also want reduced reporting requirements - Song Name, Artist, Album and Label where available. Not the 25 or so data points asked for by the RIAA.

    We do not know what will happen next. This ruling may even mean that another CARP hearing will be held, this time we hope it will be more accessible to small internet broadcasters. (Previous CARPs required all participants to share the costs associated with it, which came out to about $300,000 for each participant.)

    But internet broadcasters are happy that we can stay on the air for another 30 days. If the decision went the other way, many stations would have started shutting down this week.

  44. just occured to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the RIAA wants money from the internet radio sites and they want valuable marketing data to be collected and sent to them. I say that the RIAA should be paying the internet radio stations for logging all that important RIAA related demographic marketing DATA. That is a ton of useful info for the RIAA to data mine in exchange for US$.0014 per song per listener? AM / FM Radio can not even give the RIAA such consicely formatted data. Maybe, internet radio can offer the labels something more than AM / FM radio can in exchange for hard cash. This sounds fair to me.

  45. It depends on your definition of socialism by FreeUser · · Score: 2

    For how long has the music economy been socialist? Is our intolerance of the RIAA limited to its bullying and selfishness, or can it be extended to this attempt to corrupt the freedom of commerce itself?

    Since the music economy has taken something that was completely free (as in freedom) for the first 3 million years of humanity's existence, and locked it down under copyright for the last couple of centuries or so, one answer (in which socialism is defined as a government mandated, command economy ... a definition in common usage in the United States) would be two centuries or so, give or take.

    Essentially ever since we started granting authors and publishers artificial monopolies on their works in the, possibly misguided, assumption that it was necessary in order to foster creativity and expand the public commons (centuries of opposing evidence containing such greats as Michealangelo, Bach, Mozart, and William Shakespear nothwithstanding). So long as the government is using its coercive powers to impose scarcity and restriction where no such natural barriers exist, we will have a media economy that is, effectively, a command economy.

    It should come as no surprise that the parties involved in a command economy have to go to the government to have their rates set and their operating parameters defined. "Free" in any sense of the word, be it market, price, or freedom, has little if anything to do with the situation our approach to artistic compensation via monopoly copyrights has created.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    1. Re:It depends on your definition of socialism by King_TJ · · Score: 2

      Correct, although none of this would be an issue if the artists didn't desire to apply for copyright and work through existing distribution channels. Government has never forced an artist to "lock down" their work via copyright. If this were so, Linux wouldn't exist at all - since you'd be required to place it under some form of copyright, and retain exclusive rights to the OS.

      I'm no more pleased with the state of the "music industry" than anyone else here is -- but there are still plenty of options for artists to bypass the established system. Most don't due to greed.

    2. Re:It depends on your definition of socialism by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      I hate to burst your bubble, but Linux is (C) Linus Torvalds. :-) He just chose to let us use his work (via the GPL) and it's derivatives.

      -Chris

  46. Looking for info by Alsee · · Score: 2

    the RIAA argued that they were way too low.

    Does anyone have a link to the this argument?
    Should be good for a few laughs.

    -

    --
    - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  47. Mod this up this deserves at least a 1(insightful) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great post- gets a 3 in my book. Anywho Metropolis records says they aren't a part of the RIAA and fully back web-broadcasters- cuz they know that it's free publicity. The huge recording labels don't want the general population to know that they have a choice other than repetitive cookiecutter music that they 'manufacture'.

    http://www.metropolis-records.com/

    one of my fave webcasters www.digitalgunfire.com that plays metropolis's stuff

  48. mirror of CARP report? by jonathanjo · · Score: 2
    I'm trying to look at the original CARP report, linked to from the LOC page, but the PDF seems to be either broken or password-protected. (Ghostview doesn't like it, in any case.)

    Has anyone put up a mirror of the contents in HTML or plain text?

  49. I've had it with the RIAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'm a musician, and I have been approached by various studios to be recorded or whatever. I for one am getting REALLY tired of watching no talent people getting rich off of other people's talents. If you want to support your favorite musician, go to their shows. THAT is where they make their money. A band only gets about $1-3 dollars per $20 CD. So every time you buy a CD you're paying on average $18 for executives to tell you what's good and what's not AND to pay for the RIAA to "buff" politicians and beaurocrates (I know I spelled it wrong) to pass laws that are like what they are trying to do right now.

    Don't get me wrong. I buy the CDs of bands I like, but those are few these days since there are so many bands putting out 1 good song and the rest suck.

    There is a bright side to all this. With the advent of the internet and P2P software, bands that have the desire and talent can make it without a recording studio. Nickelback is an EXCELLENT example of that. Granted their site is on NT and isn't working because of NT (and many of it's so called admins, not ALL NT admins are bad, don't get me wrong) doesn't work properly. But if I'm not mistaken, they have made it big without the help of any recording label even though they appear to be with one now. So I say, look around, find the music you like in whatever means you like, JUST DON'T BUY CDS!! Screw the recording studios. Don't give them money to try to make laws making everything in this world more difficult.

    I say again, this is from a musician that has almost been signed several times. Musicians make their money on tour, not from the CDs

  50. spin doctoring by neoThoth · · Score: 3, Interesting

    i'm usually more aware of this type of legislation but was caught off guard by this. So I did some digging at RIAA's site (better to know your enemy) and found this spin control document.

    My favorite quote:

    In recent weeks, the CARP rates have become the subject of an intense misinformation and propaganda campaign (so called "grassroots" but really ginned up by sophisticated lobbyists in D.C.)

    nahhh it's not grass roots... it's ginned up by sophisticated lobbyists!

    Hil Rosenator is smoking some crack if she expects people to really believe this but it is interesting. Whom did they have in mind?
    Well later on in the document they specifically name MTV, Microsoft, AOL/TW. With the exception of MTV (who's parent company may have some quarrels with RIAA) it seems like technology vs. copyright all over again. I just wish the tech companies would realize they are fighting this together and publicly unify against RIAA and other media hordes (whores?) who have clearly put aside internal bickering to concentrate on world domination through Project "Nickle and Dime" the fuck out of everyone.

  51. Commerical radio has a lot of advantages already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Commerical radio already has the tremendous advantage of being able to use radio frequencies that are just aren't allotted to anybody. In the US, you can't just ask the FCC to give you, for example, 99.5 on your FM dial to start broadcasting. That's why commerical stations are required to provide news in the US.

  52. Just remember... by automatic_jack · · Score: 1

    You can't spell C-R-A-P without C-A-R-P.

    --

    -- Have you ever noticed that at trade shows, Microsoft is always the company that is handing out stress balls?

  53. 'Member when... by ImaLamer · · Score: 2

    I'm too young, but remember when it was a scandal if a station was +paid+ to play a certain artists' music?

    My local KISS-FM (yes, just like yours thanks to Clear Channel) played that damn Eminem song all day and night while saying "WE ARE GOING TO PLAY THE WHOLE ALBUM THROUGH"

    People used to actually do that - it was how the album was meant to be played dammit! It made me want to call and play the album for them :)

    I know my rant is off topic, so here is my attempt to bring it back on course. If this type of thing ever goes through I think we should take the current FCC FM license prices (which are high enough) and just times them by 29374938920 so that no one gets radio.

    Then the RIAA will just send us a shopping list or deduct money from our checking accounts daily for living...

  54. Media companies and Multicast... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2

    The original MBONE's routing architecture wasn't scalable. More sophisticated routing schemes have been devised fairly recently but to my knowledge there are next to no ISPs that offer multicast connectivity to consumers.

    And given that corporate mergers are resulting in a significant fraction of the ISPs being owned by content provider megacorps, don't expect them to be in any rush to deploy them, or to make the input accessable to end users (rather than just the media corps) if they ARE deployed.

    There's probably more money to be made by the megacorps by promoting mom-and-pop "internet radio" than by blocking it. But until the media decision makers have an epiphany the dogs will likely remain in the manger.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  55. Article headline by tadas · · Score: 2, Funny

    Am I the only one who initially read it as "Copyright Office Rejects Crap Recommendations" and thought, "Wow! Stuff that Matters!"?

    --
    This page accidentally left blank
  56. Wrong hero by Mr.+Fred+Smoothie · · Score: 2
    Oh, and you misspelled "heroes."
    No he didn't. He meant that they were sandwiches.
    --

    1. Re:Wrong hero by gamgee5273 · · Score: 2

      Hmmm...I guess you're right...I think I'll go eat a potatoe and read Danny Quayle's bio...

  57. Radio stations are useless anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    They're the old marketing medium, and are made by lazy people who can't be bothered to make music...


    Sure I hate the RIAA, everybody does... Even as an artist, I don't see their bigger royalties coming anywhere except into some old-fart copyright-buying bastard who never contributed a note or a beat to the dead artist money he ripps!


    But who gives a crap about arrogant little bitchy radio stations anyway?

  58. Yes! Yes! Yesss!! by Tiado · · Score: 1

    Internet Radio will prevail, Internet radio forever. I still stand the chance of starting up my very own netradio station/site.

  59. multicast by rwa2 · · Score: 2

    Wasn't multicast developed to tackle this kind of problem? They should theoretically be able to broadcast one stream and have it routed to all of their listeners. If it can't work in IPv4 on the current internet, what about with IPv6?

    Come on, this is the stuff that's supposed to drive in new technology!

  60. Question: What do broadcasters currently pay? by Jason+Pollock · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've searched, and I've been unable to find any information telling me what radio stations currently pay to air a song.

    Anyone know?

    Jason Pollock

  61. Crabb's Law... by Big+Sean+O · · Score: 2

    The late Don Crabb always used to say on the Steve Dahl Show: Pornography Drives Technology. If/when video files can be tossed around like audio streams, THAT's when you'll get these problems ironed out.

    --
    My father is a blogger.
  62. The Cost of Delay, and the cost of RIAA music by gregormarkowitz · · Score: 3, Interesting
    My web station has been on the air for over four years straight. This decision was supposed to have been finalized by the LOC a couple of other times in the last few years, so this delay is no real surprise.

    It is clear to me that any and all delay in the process helps the RIAA members and harms the webcasters for two reasons: During the three-and-a-half (so far) years wait for the price of music to be set, it has been impossible for a webcaster to make a real business plan, to create a spreadsheet that describes their business in numbers, to pitch potential investors, or to sign any serious contracts with advertisers or other funders, thus crippling the fledgling industry. On the other hand, the record industry needs lots of time to get their act together to move in with their own outfits.

    As a webcater, I am coming to realize that unlike most of the people in broadcasting, I am a BUYER and not a freeloader. I am going to demand some respect from any label trying to get on my station. Tribute even.

    I am afraid that the RIAA is going to price their member's works out of the market. If I can buy gas at one station for $1.50 or go next door and pay $15.00, where do you think I will tend to pull in to fill up?

    Today I was on Paul Allen's TechTV when the statement from the Librarian of Congress came out. I deleted a RIAA member property song from the play rotation on my station, on camera, and they aired it! Click Click "Well, no royalties for Lowen and Navarro, no promotion, no exposure, no airplay, no CD sales. Too bad. Too expensive."

  63. The perils of old age by Kalvos · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Our show, Kalvos & Damian's New Music Bazaar begins its 8th year on Saturday. We've been on line since September of 1995, with RealAudio 1.0.

    We've been both broadcast and cybercast (archived, not streamed, for the first few years), and were there three years before the DMCA.

    Yes, we were opposed to the CARP rules and gave them our Golden Bruce Award this year, but we also opposed the DMCA and praised the Dutch rights agency BUMA (which allows imperfect cybercasts with simple licensing, and none at all at low streaming rates.

    Our problem has been living through all these issues. We began operating with the understanding that we were a niche program (new nonpop) working as a research site as well as a music site (we won the year 2000 ASCAP-Deems Taylor Award, even after the DMCA).

    But the DMCA contained no grandfathering and had no exceptions for educational/research use. In 1998, before the passage of the law, we started getting releases from composers and labels (which you can read about here) as a pre-emptive measure. We didn't receive all of them, which still meant, with the advent of the retroactive CARP rules (see the abbreviated list in a previous post), the impossible requirement to research all our logs, including on computers long out of service and whose logs were long gone.

    On average, by my guesswork calculation (where Britney's "I'm a Slave 4 U" and Beethoven's "Missa Solemnis" are both considered "songs") our yearly payment to the RIAA (which does

    not

    represent most nonpop artists) would have been $5,160, more than a dozen times a typical license for the same 900-watt radio station we broadcast from.

    So the Librarian of Congress's rejection of CARP is good news, if only for the interim. True commercial cybercasts are another issue, and the DMCA and CARP rules are a burden for them as well; we broadcast and cybercast within the nonprofit/educational arena (on a community station with volunteer staff) and also provide a true research site, but CARP swept us in with the rest.

    I don't offer any new insights here, only a sense of relief, and a place to say them.

    Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
    "Kalvos" of Kalvos & Damian's New Music Bazaar

  64. CARP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CARPCRAP?