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USMC Shows Off New Toys
jonerik writes "And speaking of the future of unmanned combat, Wired today has this article on several new toys being developed for the U.S. Marine Corps. The Dragon Eye is a small remote-controlled airplane which can be disassembled and carried in a field pack. The Dragon Runner is a miniature camera-equipped wheeled truck about the size of a shoebox which can be sent into dangerous areas as a scout. The Dragon Warrior is a small unmanned helicopter which looks like a toilet seat with wings. Perhaps most intriguing is a device unofficially dubbed the RoboLobster, which skitters around on eight mechanical legs, detecting and disarming mines. Although the Dragon Eye is scheduled for deployment next year, the other three devices are still in the development stage."
Dragon Warrior? sheesh.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
The Dragon Runner is a miniature camera-equipped wheeled truck about the size of a shoebox which can be sent into dangerous areas as a scout.
What's the betting that the Web will soon be swamped with pop-ups offering to sell us the X10.Com version of these?
I don't want to know how it attacks the enemy.
BTW: Is the rumor true that the Trud Report has signed up with the army ?
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
A toy plane, a shoe box, and a toilet seat.
Where's a dragon when you need one? You'd be amazed what a 500 lb pile of crap will do when dropped from > 1 mile.
Drive the goddamn thing around your backyard, with a .22 on it, and wait for groundhogs.... ELL OH ELL.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
Who wants to be that the draggon runner gets a claymore mine attached to it?
Screw scouting, just blow them to pieces.
Nooooooooo...
[Insert obligatory BSOD joke]
How does this lobster disarm? Just shoot it and hopes it blows up? Geez, they better come up with better names for these new "gizmos".
No research on super-smart patriotic deadly mosquitos?
This being 9 months old, and happening on that day, this is very old old old old old news!
`find / -name "*your_base*" -exec chown us:us {} \;`
Hate the idea of a lobster toy?
Try crabs instead
The escape of Osama Bin Laden and the invisibility
of the Abu Sayyaff in the jungles of the Philippines
show one thing. No amount of high tech weaponry
and no surfeit of surveillance equipment can beat
a human on the ground. After several months of
scrutinizing the tiny island of Basilan, using
satellites, aircraft and what not, no trace
of the kidnapped Burnhams have been detected.
The Abu Sayyaff and their hostages have effectively
vanished.
As the US Marine Corps continues to progress
towards its vision of the modern warrior, I
hope it remembers that human brains and
courage is still more valuable than all the
modern technology in the world.
... DragonBall with super-killah mode called DragonBallZ!
No one can stand on your way now, ha!
:wq
3522329841 is hick.org. http://www.hick.org/goat/ is a mirror of goatse.cx. goatse.cx has a disgusting picture of a huge distended "analog hole." If you don't want to see gay pr0n worthy of rotten.com, don't click the link in parent.
What kind of toilet seats do you have? And...huh, where are the wings? IMHO, that looks very much like an helicopter.
Or what kind of seat do you have in the US ?
only for information goatse is a vhost dude. so in reality you ping'ed someone else...
Rumour has it there is also a handheld missile called the Dragon Punch which features voice activation. Soldiers should extend their hands towards their enemies, palms out and joined at the wrist, and loudly yell "ah-DOOOH-ken!" to launch the distinctive blue projectile.
... shoot me :) )
However, the device has been found only to work with Super-Saiyans. Researchers are currently looking at ways to increase the KI of soldiers....
(OK OK I'm mixing animes
Sounds a bit noisy to me, personally. I know I'd get pretty suspicious if I was a soldier and saw one coming towards me. Plus, I'd probably take aim at it - I hope they're cheap.
Score:-1, Funny
These new toys are great, but the challenge will be to get these "18 and 19 year old" grunts (I use the term respectfully) to actually use them in battle.
Unless the Marine Corps. has changed recently, no self-respecting Marine will want to be dicking around with an RC car when they are in the middle of combat.
Nevertheless, I applaud the Marines for using technology to its fullest in the battlefield.
Thank you Dave Raggett
So which one is the Second Variety?
Doesn't the USMC run "Toys for Tots?"
-- "The reward of suffering is experience." - Aeschylus
It looks like technology is starting to catch up with science fiction. When I was a soldier, I wished that someone would invent a small, remote controlled, video camera that could fly like a helicopter. I was never a big fan of detecting the presence of the enemy by getting shot.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
"If a Marine can use (Microsoft) Word, he can get this plane to fly."
:)
Every Marine who's a geek worth his salt is out of luck. But I suppose it's better than trying basing it on a Linux text editor...
"If a Marine can use emacs, he can get this plane to fly."
(the vi party screams NOOOOOO)
"If a Marine can use vi, he can get this plane to fly."
(with this one, we'd end up sending all the scouts in the world to Biggs, Oregon
What about the Dragon's Breath (a self-propelled, autonomous microwave for warming field rations) or the Dragon's [censored] (a self-propelled autonomous latrine)?
These are especially important since the Dragon Warrior is unlikely to ever be put into service due to issues with infinite loops in the control software ("Dost thou love me?" "No" "But thou must!"), and a vulnerability to enemy subversion, despite self-destruct failsafes. Also, there is a considerable amount of tuning and calibration that each unit must go through under battlefield conditions, and there aren't always enough slimes and drakees to use for target practice. Finally, budget cuts threaten to drastically under-equip each unit, and simulations show that the operators quickly resort to looting defeated enemies.
You are part of a deep recon patrol in a hostile area moving forward looking for the enemy and you want to send this up to let him know that you are in the immediate area??
On top of that you are going to have some grunt carry all this shit (when he could instead be hauling a GPMG and ammo) on the off chance that it might see use on a clear day with low winds, no rain, no snow, no hail, etc, etc, etc.
rrrright!!!
the article says something about it being suited to urban situations... over a range of 10 kms.. ... they can't have 3G cell towers in the enviornment can they!!
how do you think they communicate?? high bandwidth data (i.e. video feeds), waves bouncing off buildings etc
When these are issued out at Combined Arms eXercise at 29 Palms, and the geek-infantryman (believe me, they exist, I am one) is told to report to the commanding officer and figure the damn thing out so that it can be used, I'll believe these things are being used.
Still, the point here is that if it's not exceedingly easy to use, it won't get used. If there are lots of little parts that have to go in the case, they're going to get lost. SL-3 gear for night vision gets lost all the time. The PEQ-2 infrared laser sight for the M-16 is a good example. There's a neato little switch that mounts, using adhesive and velcro, to the handguard. We never use it, though. it's supposed to stay in the pouch, but it gets lost. All the little bits and pieces that come with this junk get lost. Just like the little pieces of MoLLE gear, just like the little pieces of SL-3 for anything that comes with little garbage.
A note to you engineers out there designing stuff for us to go kill people with: Make it monolithic. Configurable is nice and stuff, but if there are little parts that can get lost, they will get lost.
It happens with all the stuff we have now; it'll happen with the DragonEye. Which, by the way, I don't ever want to have to hump into an LZ. I bet it doesn't de well wet, either. Well guess what? Grunts get wet and muddy on a sunny day. We're not happy unless we're wet and muddy. This thing isn't going to last long, I surmise. It's going to get broken too much.
So that's what they did with those $600 toilet seats the Air Force developed back in the 1980s.
We modeled the controller after the PlayStation2, because that's what these 18-, 19-year-old Marines have been playing with pretty much all of their lives," said Maj. Greg Heines
Things have been brought to light recently, and demonstrated tragically to us Canadians what these 18-19 yo playstation players can do with a little knowledge and too much power. I know this isn't a jet with a supposedly mature pilot at the helm, but it demonstrates to me the regard that the US military has for the maturity of its underlings.
I just can't imagine a future where the jets that bomb us accidentally don't even have a pilot at the helm to ask "why?".
"If a Marine can use (Microsoft) Word, he can get this plane to fly."
It looks like you are trying to crash this plane into the ground - would you like me to autoformat your controlled flight into terrain?
I'm the stranger...posting to
...but I doubt it's Marine proof. They ought to design this stuff so the dumbest person in the world can use it, because at some point, he'll be asked to.
If I had a dime for every devildog that came up to my armory asking for cleaning gear, or even more important stuff like magazines...
Hmm. The only problem will be the Horus Heresy.
I'm torn. On one hand, there's something to be said for, "Fall before the chapter!"
On the other hand, nothing beats a good BFTBG (Blood for the Blood God!) charge.
*sigh* Ah well, either way, I'll get some extra organs out of the deal, or die writing in pain. (Possibly both!)
The original poster is subtle. Check the article's department.
All my previous sigs now look like this one, I wish they were permanetly recorded when used.
duh.
Urban. Combat.
Almost. I think I'll just settle for buying the draganflyer x-pro from rctoys.
A 300 foot altitude limit? So it could only be used up the Mississippi River valley to Bethel Bridge (altitude 301 feet above sea level), in Ripley county, Missouri?
And where would it be useful in mountains in Afghanistan...to fly only inside caves...caves below 300 feet above sea level?
A friend of mine actually built something exactly like the Dragon Runner a few months ago. He's a real big RC Car aficionado, so he had a bunch of different cars sitting around, and he wanted to do something more interesting with one of them. He got a couple of those X10 cameras, and mounted them on one of his cars, and had them broadcast back to a little battery powered TV that he carried around with him as he controlled the car. It had a range of .5 miles and could go full speed (40 MPH) for about 45 minutes before he needed to replace his batteries.
I should hope that the Marines could get something at least on par with something my 17 year old friend built in his spare time.
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
Battlebots!
Does a smart weapon become a frightening killer robot?
h tm
http://www.pica.army.mil/arms/Sadarm/pi_sadarm.
These things just get freakier and freakier...
I thought they simply renamed it an antipersonnel device, and its not classified as a mine. It doesn't really adhere to the typical definition of a mine either.
Anyhow its similiar to bayonets. As per the Geneva convention you can't sharpen bayonets. So most armies simply gave their soldiers long "combat knives" held in sheaths in their webbing, etc. They just happen to have "attachment devices" that allow them to be attached to the barrel of a rifle. And boy ar ethose "knives" kept sharp. To be fair, they are used as knives, but then again so were bayonets.
Maybe someone can invent a robotic turban that will crush Bin Laden's skull.
Okay, I'll buy that but do we still manufacture mines for resale overseas?
The Enterprise needs to get dragonfly technology, I never understood why every time there is a dangerous situation, they send in the top 3 officers ;)
As opposed to skittering around on metaphorical legs?
The USMC has had the AeroVironment Pointer for about a decade now. This is a model airplane with a TV camera, small enough to be carried in a backpack. It's Kevlar, and powered by silver-zinc batteries (which, by the way, are great, but cost too much.) Range of a few miles, endurance of maybe an hour. (The maker says 1.5 hours, reports say 30 minutes.) Toss into the air, fly over the hill, and get a small-screen peek at the enemy. Moderately useful, not overdesigned, and reasonably rugged. For example, landing is done by coming in low, pulling up into a stall, cutting the power, and crashing tail-first, the typical model airplane bad landing.
When the pentagon drags a mouse over a foreign country and unleashes robotic hell on them, and people dying via remote control, one has to ask how far we are from large machines crunching their way over fields of human skulls.
Is this really where humanity wants to go?
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
If you just want to try flying one, we have also have written an OpenGL simulator.
Here's your change to try it without signing up for the Marines.
-- http://www.swcp.com/~hudson/
I am not quite sure of your definition of "self-respecting". If one is to truly respect oneself you should do whatever it takes to protect ones physical body. If you feel like you, or whatever son or daughter you wish to send to be killed, will have self-respect by yelling gung ho and going over the hill blind...(It is just not Marine-Like to mess around with those RC car..computer things) go right ahead.
Personally I would prefer to have the most amount of information possible before I entered the surreal very short moments of combat. Combat almost always falls into the military term of "hurry up and wait". Intelligence (knowledge of the enemy) always trumps bravado.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
General George S. Patton
... and furthermore
Anyhow its similiar to bayonets. As per the Geneva convention you can't sharpen bayonets.
I can at least see the justification for banning mines since they end up getting left there after the war is over, but why the hell would they ban sharpening bayonets?!?
You know that's what's coming next. Giant killer mecha that will be hijacked by terrorists for their own evil uses.
And only Hideo Kojima will be able to save us.
Hmmm. Let me think.... two things spring to mind.
1. What ancient culture reveres the dragon?
2. What's the name of the only other country to still harbour superpower dreams?
Coincidence? Don't think so. And I don't think the military of the (very large) country I am avoiding naming will think so either.
Foolish naming. Provokes for no possible benefit.
They didn't. They banned bayonets with saw-toothed edges.
I guess no one ever told you about atomic weapons, the end of the war with Japan, and the cold war.
Dragon Flyer
I saw this via Apple's homepage... sounds like you can buy your eye in the sky...
Winton
I'm not trying to be priggish... and I'm not the kind of person to tilt at every semantic windmill... but calling these things "toys" (even though they have an undeniable geek/tech allure)... minimizes their deadliness.
Something designed to efficiently kill humans isn't a "toy."
I realize the purpose and ubiquity of war... and I'm not "above" talking about it (or the implements used in it) constructively... but let's not call these deadly things "toys."
the most mysterious thing you'll see today
The problem with better weapons is that they cut both ways. The US military may be ahead in the applications of this kind of thing right now, but they're leveraging existing technology, a lot of which is available off the shelf - microcontrollers, MEMS accelerometers and gyroscopes, and standard RC gear. How long until terrorists or guerillas are using small unmanned helicopters, planes and cars to deliver explosives inside secure facilities, or to assassinate world leaders?
good to see military boys on /.
I'll be joining up soon....going to OCS
~j
Thank you Dave Raggett
They banned bayonets with saw-toothed edges.
OK, so why did they ban these?
Lay off on the insane juice there, tripping billy.
Your plans to use ground and airborne autonomous robots in combat are indeed impressive. I have to warn you though, that my recent analyses strongly indicate that your entire attack force can be beaten by the first opponent who fields a well-designed clone army, or for that matter a bunch of poorly-armed semi-sentient amphibians and a small boy. Consider yourselves warned.
Freedom: "I won't!"
Using model airplanes as a military tool is very popular these days and some of the more sophisticated ones (such as the X-45) may well be the future of "safe" combat.
However, don't fall into the trap of thinking that the US is the only force to have such combat tools or that this "off the shelf" technology can't be used against targets with the borders of the USA.
Check out The Low Cost Cruise Missile scenario for some insight into the opportunity this stuff gives to half-smart terrorist groups.
When the Marines took Kuwait City in the Gulf Warr, they drove RC worn-out trucks through the "impenetrable" mine fields.
Hey, Mom! Is it beer, yet?
But they're probably referring to this older mock-up:
d ownloads / ragonwarrior.jpg
2 766-398 1~3980,00.html
o wnloads / ragoneye.jpg
http://www.helis.com/h/cypher2.jpg
Here's some nice stats:
http://www.mcwl.quantico.usmc.mil/images/
But not as pretty a picture as the one on the wired site:
http://www.wired.com/news/gallery/0,2072,5
And this fits in a backpack and works out to about 10km:
http://www.mcwl.quantico.usmc.mil/images/d
-- Ender, Duke_of_URL
Saw-toothed bayonets tend to rip up the flesh more than usually when they come out and the resulting wound is more likely to kill. They were a particular sticking point (no pun indended) during World War I. The effort to make warfare more humane, which followed it, banned both saw-toothed and triangular cross-section bayonets.
The Marine's perspective on technology can be inferred by their description of their combat knife: It has zero electronics and zero moving parts, it is the most reliable weapon you will carry.
The Marines are very unlikely to lose the proper perspective that the basic Marine rifleman is their most important weapon. As an organization they are extremely mindful of the fact that the character of their people and the training of their people are their most important assets. Historically they have done a good job introducing new technology while keeping their perspective.
For example one of the most important new technologies in modern warfare has been aviation. The Marines embraced aviation but adopted the perspective that Marine aviation exists to help grunts. To become a pilot in the Marines you must first prove yourself as a rifle platoon commander. You may sign up to become a pilot but you start your career going to Officer Candidate School at Quantico where you will learn to be a grunt and how to effectively command grunts.
Does anyone really believe we would have a chance against machines in a war:
...
"Hey 1000111010 watch me make this human dance"
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