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HP Must Defend Half-Empty "Economy" Ink Cartridges
An Anonymous Coward excerpts this short Detroit News story, which begins "PALO ALTO, Calif. -- Hewlett-Packard Co. must defend the sale of half-full ink cartridges with its printers after a Minnesota appellate court reinstated a lawsuit against the world's largest maker of printers.
Three Minnesota women claim that the company doesn't reveal that the 'economy cartridges' installed on new printers are only half full of ink." The cost of refills is why I've given up on inkjet printers entirely (for now) -- guess which division of HP made more money than the other four combined?
I did wonder why I could never find that HP cartridge number when I went to replace it the first time, just different cart which would replace it. Seems to me, we all got what we paid for, even if we think we should have got full cartridges. I see no deceit, to be honest, even if I think it smells like the fresh dead skunk on Highway 17 this morning.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I saw a new Lexmark printer on sale the other day for just over 50 bucks. With some ink refills running in the $30 range, it almost seems feasable to eventually have use-once, throw-away (recycle!) printers... much like those cardboard cameras.
My sig sucks.
When I bought my computer it came with a free inkjet printer. Now I feel locked in to the technology. Plus it's the only way for the home user to get color printing. I do appreciate the new Epson with individual color tanks. That at least is a step in the right direction.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
One problem with laser is that it spikes the hell out of your power supply, will kill a UPS, and if not on aseperate circuit can wreak havoc with your other equipment. Inkjets are much tamer, and while a pain in the ass and slower, are safer for beginning/home lUsers for this reason. Since they're also cheaper to make than lasers and better than dot-matrix, inkjet will probably have a lock on consumers for some time.
You are not the customer.
but I do not think of HP as a sleazeball company. They make high quality products for fair prices, treat their employees reasonably well, and you never hear about Chinese 6-year-olds assembling LJ4100's in a sweatshop someplace.
So, why are they pulling this scam? Is it a change in corporate culture? Is HP actually evil, with a thin chocolaty covering? Is it actually a fair tactic? Is it a manufacturing or shipping issue?
Insight please...
Some years ago I ran across a product that made refilling cartridges easy. I believe it was called KleanHands. It consisted of a reusable printhead and replaceable cartridges of ink. Much cheaper than HP cartridges. I found that the ink cartridges were easily refillable, too. We bought some where I work for an HP Officejet fax machine.
Unfortunatly that product seems to no longer be available and only worked on a limited number of HP printers. (not mine of course) Too bad someone doesn't make something similar today for color cartridges.
I've been refilling my HP cartridges for a couple of years, with mixed results. Sometimes it works well, sometimes the cartridge clogs up or worse, leaks all over. I'd say it works about 50% of the time. Still cheaper than paying HP's inflated prices.
Lately though, HP's changed the design of their cartridges making it harder to refill them. You either have to drill a hole in the black cartridges or use a vacuum method to refill them. It can be done, it's just a hassle and usually messy.
The color ones are easier, just crack the top off and fill the sponges with ink. At least that method still works. (for now)
I know some would say, why bother? Just get a laser printer, right? Well, I already have a laser printer, an HP LJ IIID with envelope feeder and duplex feeder that I got for free from a dumpster. (with a stack of toner carts) Some idiot got a wire hooked into the gears while changing the toner cartridge and shredded up some wiring. I patched them back together and have been using it ever since. It's great for black and white and I use it probably 90% of the time, but I still need color for some printouts so the HP stays attached to my network.
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It's well known within the company that HP's best revenue stream is it's ink business. They rigorously enforce their patents on the cartridges (thus why you never see "generic" cartridges) and go after refill companies as well. Anything goes to protect the ink revenue stream. It's been said internally that HP isn't a computer company, it's an INK company.
HP used to have a "print on demand" service where you subscribe to various printed journals or newsletters and they'd automatically print for you whenever there was a new issue. Of course, the motivation was to get you to use up more ink. (They canned it because apparently most people realized it was pretty silly.)
If you want a project to get good acceptance in the company, show how it can help people squirt out lots of ink and you'll definitely get the backing of the execs. It's been this way for years.
One other interesting bit: The one thing that was NOT mentioned publicly about why it was good for HP to merge with Compaq, and why they're keeping both lines of home PCs (rather than consolidate around one brand) is this: Instead of Compaq home PC package including Lexmark printer with a PC, they'll of course ship with an HP inkjet printer, which means more market share for home printers which means more ink. Of course, they didn't want to push this point for fear it would raise the eyebrows of those who needed to approve the deal, but don't think it wasn't part of their motivation and revenue forcasting.
-- an HP insider
I bought some crappy HP InkJet for $35 dollars because I print precisely 2 pages per month and I didn't want to have to disconnect my wife's Laser from her stupid Macintosh and carry it over to my computer.
The chances of me ever buying a replacement cartridge for this thing are slim. In two years when I run out of ink, I'll just buy a new printer! At $35 bucks, it's less than the cost of the cartridge!
http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/cf
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
Calling half empty Cartridges "Economy" is deceptive. Cusotmers think it's economical for them, but it's actually economical for Hewlett-Packard-Bell. This exactly what should be expected from a notorious corporate raider like Carly "The Hatchet" Fiorina.
The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
my $80 dollar Epson printer does 1400dpi, show me a laser under $500 that can do above 600dpi
DPI for an inkjet is meaningless. At anything higher than 150dpi, the ink will expand when it hits the paper, and blur.
Don't believe me? Try this: print a 1400dpi mesh on your inkjet (ie: 1010101010... ) then do the same with a cheap laser printer (hint: the laser printer will probably do this as part of it's test page).. then compare the two under a magnifying glass.. the inkjet will look like a gray smear, while the laser will actually show some definition (for an apples-to-apples comparison, try it with the inkjet at 600DPI, you'll get the same results.)
Then, just for shits and giggles, compute how much you spent running this test.
that $80 inkjet still look cheap?
Well, the problem is, my definition of waste and hers in this situation. She sees it as her fun activity which makes her friends happy. A Good Thing according to Martha Stewart. The last thing I am going to do is start a fight with a women that is a cock rancher.
As with all things in marriage, it gets solved by talking about it, not ignoring it. So if it's an issue, tell her. If it's not--well, then don't post on /. about it.
It was an article about women and ink jets. I was relaying my experience with my woman and ink jets. Guess you miss the point, women love these things because of all the colorful, creative things can do with them. Its the needlepoint of the new century.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Remove the cheap solvent, and, by weight, inkjet ink is more expensive than gold.
I just want to know if any of you have come across this scam:
(I have seen this happen 3 times in my career in IT)
You get a call from some one, they find out that you are in charge of purchasing for you IT dept in your co. They tell you that they are going to send you your free gift! a small tv or some such thing. If you accept this gift - they send you a pallat (sp?) of laser printer toner cartridges and try to charge you like $200.00 each.
They bill you and try to send you an invoice at some regular interval.
When I first got into IT I mistakenly accepted the seemingly innocent free gift from a vendor and had this happen. They had told me that they were an authorized HP cartridge re-manufacturer, and that the toner cartridges containg high quality super fine toner which yeilded over a thousand more pages per cartridge (no - I did not fall for this BS as i will explain) - they continued on the superiority of their re-furbished crap... I was very wise/lucky to basically record the conversation in transcript form in notepad....
I told them I did not want to buy any of their cartridges - but sure I would accept the free gift that they wanted to send me regardles... big mistake. They sent the free gift all right - right along with half a pallet of the toner cartridges i didnt want.
So I accepted the gift, but refused delivery of the pallet. but the delivery guy was apparently giving instructions not to take no for an answer and would not accept the refusal of delivery. and left me with the pallet - and the invoice for a few thousand dollars.
I was pissed off... luckily I had the entire ordeal meticulously documented... for some reason I felt the whole thing was fishy and kept very good notes.
being that the company said that they were one of the few nationally certified and autorized HP cartridge manufacturers - and that the delivery of the toner carts was total BS - and that they were charging over 200 per toner I was pissed off.
I called up HP and asked about their authorizing such shady companies - I was informed by HP that there was nbo such thing as an auth'd cartridge remanufacturer... and they forwarded me to their legal dept. I talked with them about the whole thing... emailed the transcripts of the whole ordeal - and they sent someone next day to pick up the pallet of illegal cartridges (but said I could keep two or three for my troubles)\
Then since we never paid the invoice to the con company - they called up demanding their money. I told them that I would be happy to pay them - if they could prove that they were authorized HP remanufacturers (I dont remember exactly why - but HP said that I should not tell them that I had reported them until they gave me the go ahead... they said to give them the run around on the invoice for a few weeks - and they would contact me and tell me when they had completed their investigation)
they called every single day trying to get payment out of us. Then they sent us another pallet of toner carts - that HP galdly picked up again the next day.
Finally I had the pleasure of telling the guys on the other end of the line that I ahd documented every last detail - including them verifying their mailing address 3 times for payment of the invoice and had reported them to HP and the BBB and the state attorney general for fraud. You should have heard the guy on the other end - he went stark raving mad into a panic - especially after I was able to document exact conversations and every single time they called me.
They claimed that what I did was illegal and that I should be prepared to be sued "big time" by them. They never called me again....
But ! some others tried to get in on the game a few years later. I received calls where they said "Hi, sam - we would like to send you your free gift!" I would ask them what company they were from, get them to repeat and verify their company name a few times - then laugh and tell them I knew their scam and that I was calling the Ca state attorney general - they would promptly hang up.
Anyone else seen this scam before?
I have an HP and tend to print most of my documents in draft mode. For most intents and purposes, especially for text documents, it is is perfectly sufficient. Since the print head seems to pass twice for high quality, I would guess that I am on average doubling the life of my ink cartridge. If I need something to dazzle then the high quality mode is there when I need it.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
>guess which division of HP made more money than >the other four combined?
As guess who makes LaserJet's? It's Canon. Not sure if they also make the InkJets.
Funny, the best consumer product HP sells IMHO is the LaserJet and Canon actually makes it.