How Yoda Became an Action Star

fexter writes: "This article at Entertainment Weekly talks about Yoda's transformation from a puppet to a completely-CG character, and talks about the animators' horror at Lucas' transformation of Yoda: 'When Coleman and crew first saw them, they were appalled. They thought it was unseemly and undignified for Yoda to bounce through the fight like a Superball loose in a toy store.'"

Comments

Fight Scene

[fidget42]

A friend of mine said that the fight scene reminded him (sound wise) of a battle involving Miss Piggy. Unfortunately, now I picture her in the fight instead of Yoda.

Re:Fight Scene

[Sc00ter]

Considering the person that does the voice of Miss Piggy is also the person that does the voice of Yoda (Frank Oz) it's no suprise.

Re:Fight Scene

[Anonymous Coward]

But Miss Piggy would have knocked him out faster

Credibility lost

[ObviousGuy]

From the first paragraph:

We're talking, of course, about the most crowd-pleasing scene in a movie so far this year, wherein the little green Jedi Master summons the Force to bounce and whoop and haiiii-yah!

No... The most crowd pleasing scene in a movie so far this year was Kirsten Dunst giving mouth to mouth resuscitation to Spiderman in the rain with her nipples hard from the cold.

Re:Credibility lost

[Mike the Mac Geek]

May you live long, good sir, for putting that particular image back into my head. I had nearly forgotten the perkiness of that moment. Never again.

Appalled?

[MightyPhil]

Why, I thought this was one of the best scenes in the movie. All my life, I wanted to see Yoda as a real Jedi, rather than just a frail wise old master. This fight was what I have been waiting for from Star Wars for a long time.

Finally, you understand that Yoda, although frail physically, has the ability to channel the Force in ways that no other Jedi can, at least as far as we have seen.

I don't think that the fight was in any way a detriment to the character, it actually just enhances his mystique. Besides, the irony of him finishing up bouncing off the walls, only to pick up his cane and hobble around again was priceless.

Re:Appalled?

[GuyMannDude]

Well, I am of similiar mindset to you in someways and not in others.

Finally, you understand that Yoda, although frail physically, has the ability to channel the Force in ways that no other Jedi can, at least as far as we have seen.

I've always thought that the Jedi are a pretty clear reference to martial arts and that The Force is similar to the chinese concept of "chi". Chi is meant to be some kind of biological energy force that flows through the body of an individual (in fact, acupuncture is designed to reroute the chi through meridians in the body -- if you believe in that sort of thing). Chinese martial artists believe their superior fighting ability comes from being able to channel their chi into an opponent and use the opponent's chi against them. In a book by B.K. Frantzis entitled "The Power of Internal Martial Arts," he describes studying under several chinese kung fu masters. One of them was so old and frail that he walked into the dojo with a cane, after warming up was able to toss strong men around effortlessly, and then had to leave again with the assistance of a cane. So the idea that The Force can help one overcome their age-induced physical limitations isn't exactly new.

I don't think that the fight was in any way a detriment to the character, it actually just enhances his mystique.

I don't think that people object to Yoda fighting, it was the way in which he fought. Movies have somehow perpetuated the idiotic notion that martial arts is about jumps and flips. I think it would have been far, far, more impressive if Yoda moved around a lot less and demonstrated his skill with the speed, accuracy and ability to rapidly change his sabre strokes. He expended a lot of useless energy bouncing around. Remember, when you're doing a flip, you're basically defenseless and not doing any real attack. You would think that a wise old Jedi like Yoda would be able to use some pretty efficient moves on Dooku.

Just my two cents,

GMD

Re:Appalled?

[FFFish]

I think it would have been far, far, more impressive if Yoda moved around a lot less and demonstrated his skill with the speed, accuracy and ability to rapidly change his sabre strokes.

Damn straight. Imagine him fighting with an economy of motion and energy. Defeating enemies by using their movement against them; parrying their attack by using their attack against them; using the subtlest shift in weight to completely alter a situation to his advantage.

It'd have been a thing of beauty.

Re:Appalled?

[raistlinne]

I've always thought that the Jedi are a pretty clear reference to martial arts and that The Force is similar to the chinese concept of "chi".

Well, sort of. The Chinese concept of chi is a fairly internal one, whereas the idea of the force is very external. Chi powers have more to do with manipulating energy in one's body, and force powers have more to do with manipulating energy outside of one's body (not that the force isn't inside of people as well, but it's by virtue of being all-pervasive).

I don't think that people object to Yoda fighting, it was the way in which he fought. Movies have somehow perpetuated the idiotic notion that martial arts is about jumps and flips.

Well, this isn't so idiotic. There are chinese styles that are very, very jumping-heavy. From what I understand, there are some northern styles where a fighting person spends more time in the air then on the ground. (This is supposed to be derived from fighting on ice, where the air is actually a more stable place than the ground is.)

That being said, I heard a story (from someone who witnessed it) about a 60-something year old black dragon gung fu practicioner who drank gin from the bottle, smoked cigars about 1" in diameter, had a pot belly the side of some people's bodies, and waddled around. Some students insulted him (laughed at how fat he was, I believe) and by way of demonstration, after informing them of what he was going to do, he jumped upso that his waste was around the height of their shoulders or heads, kicked one in the shoulder and before he hit the ground had spun around and kicked the other one in the side of the leg. The students both hit the ground at approximately the same time.

So maybe there's more to the idea of a master jumping around at really high speeds than you realize. :-)

He expended a lot of useless energy bouncing around. Remember, when you're doing a flip, you're basically defenseless and not doing any real attack.

Well, I thought that (1) it wasn't his energy - it was the force, so that there was an unlimited supply of it and (2) he was moving around to attack from different positions. After all, it's not like he jumped up and waited to land again before attacking. His saber was spinning around saw-tooth fashion while he was jumping, and I recall Dooku having to block it more than once while yoda's feet were not on the ground.

You would think that a wise old Jedi like Yoda would be able to use some pretty efficient moves on Dooku.

Given that Yoda probably couldn't even reach Dooku's chest with his light saber, how did you want him to fight? By constantly attacking Dooku's ankles? Do remember that in traditional sword fighting a longer reach count's for quite a lot - and Dooku's arms were something like twice as long as Yoda's, if not more. Yoda would have been severely outmatched just by that, had he stayed relatively motionless on the ground. By jumping around, Yoda was able to attack Dooku near his head.

That being said, he didn't seem to be doing much in the way of deflecting Dooku's saber and attacking a more vulnerable spot, which happens a lot in real fencing. That was a bit dissapointing. That and yoda not winning. It's not like Dooku wasn't expendible.

Re:Appalled?

[raistlinne]

Where every parry, and stroke were perfect.

Well, did you ever see yoda get hit? His opponent had no opportunity to hit him. What other quality is there to the perfect parry, or the perfect stroke?

Why should yoda have fought like someone twice his size with none of his force powers? It doesn't make sense.

As the old saying goes: "If you're a master of the invisible kick, it really doesn't matter what your opponent knows." Similarly: "It is better to be great at one type of punch than good at ten." Yoda could move faster than essentially any other living creature. Since yoda's speed came from an unexhaustable source of power, why waste time with skillful moves on the gamble that your opponent isn't better at his attack than you are at your specific parry, when you can constantly bombard him with attacks that give him no chance to counterattack?

Something that a judo sensei told me: once your a blackbelt, you'll have some move that you do really well -- better than prettymuch everyone else. When you're a high degree blackbelt, you'll have for or five such moves. When you're practicing, you practice all of your moves. When you're in a competition (or fighting), you use the ones that you're expert at. yoda was an expert in the force. Why would he ignore that in favor of his skill in fencing?

Still should have been better

[CarlDenny]

I'm still annoyed at the Yoda fight scene, and I think the animators were right.

Yes, having Yoda kick ass was cool.
But he didn't have to do it by spinning around at 3600RPM.

Yoda is supposed to be relaxed and smug. He should have overwhelmed Dooku with -skill- instead of just being four times faster, with no moment of inertia. That scene would have been twice as good if the big Y had stayed upright, and parried and feinted like a madman. No need for backflips.

Re:Still should have been better

[Deagol]

I have to agree. I would have liked to see a parallel to the first Luke/Vader fight in ESB. The first few minutes are Luke going at it, while Vader kinda shrugs him off with his 'saber -- with one hand, no less. This really made an impact as to how much of a badass Vader truly was.

And don't get me started on how Yoda should have simply force-shoved Kenobi and Skywalker out of the way of that pillar, rather than stop the pillar itself. Soooo lame.

Speaking of Vader, am I the only one who was really let down by the 30-second battle between Anakin and Dooku? I mean, this kid is destined to be the Jedi, yet this scene lacked any real tension. Even the last Darth Maul fight in E-1 was better!

Re:Still should have been better

[Xerithane]

Uhm, don't you think that being 4x faster than your opponent is skill?

I'd rather fight someone who is fighting "upright, and parr[ying] and feint[ing] like a madman" than a cracked out superball spinning around like a guided battle-axe. Just the opinion of an old tournament fighter, though. What Yoda did, takes more skill. Period. You can spin around all you want, and a lot of amatuer fighters do it. The trick is to be able to do it well and make it hard to defend. If done well, and fast, it throws your opponent off to defend and if they fail to defend, you get more power. Assuming you aren't doing focused strikes.. which is a whole different story.

jeez, they have like 2 paragraphs per page

[Dr. Awktagon]

Is it me, or were there an awful lot of pages (and ads) in that article?

Fight Club

How Yoda became

click to continue...(page 2/1345)

an action star

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With a little help

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from director George Lucas

click to continue...(page 5/1345)

Dignity?

[Dirtside]

They thought it was unseemly and undignified for Yoda to bounce through the fight like a Superball loose in a toy store.

Yeah, I guess it would have been more dignified for Yoda to stand there and let Dooku hack him to pieces with a lightsaber. :) Come on, wise sayings and Charlie Chan grammar do not a powerful Jedi make. There has to be a reason Yoda is so respected -- and it's because he's a badass, not because he can spout aphorisms. (He's certainly not very wise, considering how badly the Jedi get blindsided by the Dark Side.)

It should look familiar

[DeadBugs]

You know it looked just like the scene from Karate Kid where Mr. Miyagi opens a can of whoop-ass on those punks. If you use photoshop to color Mr Miyagi green you will see a near perfect match.

Sadly Undignified

[blink3478]

The animators were right all along, and I had a small piece of my childhood die watching Yoda leap around like a gymnist on crack. Yoda was my favorite character growing up, and that fight scene made no sense. I remember a video I saw of the guy who invented Aikido in the 1900s - I forget his name now. He was a wizened old man in the video, probably pushing ninety years old, his diciples had long-since taken over teaching their own varieties of aikido, and he still showed up in his dojo to train his students and give little demonstrations. What he lacked in mobility and strength he made up for in grace and economy of movement, and I watched as he would toss aside the students with little hand movements or slow sweeping gestures. The students could attack in piles, and still they would be tossed aside like leaves. It was really magical to watch such an old man possessed of such power. Anyway - that's how Yoda should have fought. He should have been slow, graceful and easily dispatched his enemies using only the force. He had no business using a lightsaber, and had no reason to spring about like a ping pong ball. Lastly, the reason Yoda and Boba Fett were awesome characters in the original trilogy was because they were mysterious - unknown pasts, unknown barely hinted-at abilities under the surface. Lucas destroyed their mystique by making them full fleshed-out characters in AOTC.

Bring back scale models!

[phallen]

This Start Wars CG stuff is crap. Did you see some of those graphics? Taking a bite of CG fruit from 3 inches way? Gimme a break.

I say bring back scale models! Watch the old movies. See how the X-Wings look real? That's because they are! How about that AT-AT or "Chicken-Walker"? They looked great, too. They're just small, but hell, WE can't tell.

Yoda as a CG didn't look as real (shaddows and debth looked off), the vehicles, cities, characters, monsters, animals... everything CG looked horrible, except maybe for the light-sabers and lasers.

Wait, I take it back: R2-D2 and C3P0 looked good... oh yeah, they were real! My bad.

I would love it if Lucus, for Epesode III, tossed the CG and brought back the models, rubber masks, and puppets.

Top 10 Things I learned from Attack of the Clones

[Carnage4Life]

Below is a repreint of a top ten (plus one) list entitled Top 10 Things I learned from Attack of the Clones that circulated around work that was originally compiled by Dan Charlson.

1. There are no police, or more importantly, traffic cops or highway patrol officers, on Coruscant. Endangering pedestrians and other vehicles is just "no big deal."

2. Six-year old Jedi trainees are so capable with their light sabres that you can group them very tightly together -- even wearing "blast shield helmets" -- and have them swing away at training beacons without any concerns for safety.

3. Saruman can wield a mean light sabre -- although thankfully, he hasn't forgotten how to use telekinesis (but why didn't he do some more body-slamming?!? Wait -whaddyou mean this is Star Wars...?)

4. Just because you put a homing device on your opponent's getaway vehicle does NOT mean you shouldn't also follow him or her into a really dangerous asteroid belt instead of just waiting for him or her to come out the other side (you have a tracking device, remember!) -- of course, on the other hand, flying through asteroid belts at high speed is required in the Star Wars universe. [Thanks to JLyle for this one.]

5. The GSO -- Galactic Standards Organization (the future counterpart to the ISO and W3.org) -- has been so successful that not only have ALL major industrial manufacturers adopted the same data access, networking, and transfer protocols throughout the Republic, but so have secret, guerilla arms factories -- and besides, those same factories wouldn't use security software or electronic countermeasures to defend themselves against network intrusions anyway.

6. Even though the Republic has scads of enormous, elongated wedge-shaped Star Destroyers, you should never put them into high orbit around a planet and use them to prevent enemy starships from taking off, let alone using them offensively as long-range artillery weapons against enemy ground forces. Pitting land force against land force is pretty much the best way to go -- you can always make or get more robot or clone soldiers...

7. C3PO is so well-designed that there are power cells in every major constituent of his body -- including his head. [Thanks to JacobJ for this one.]

8. You don't need to wear a helmet or even goggles while you drive hovercraft, land speeders, or other flying vehicles in a desert environment such as Tatooine.

9. Little Boba Fett is so accustomed to seeing his dad's face only behind his cool helmet that it just wouldn't occur to him to lift the visor or remove the helmet to look at his poor dead dad's decapitated visage (try saying that three times fast!).

10. One's reputation, manner, and conduct just can't be guessed by observation alone -- you need to have a name which transparently broadcasts to all but the stupidest that you're not a nice person: Darth Sidious, Lord Tyranno, Count Dooku (?!?) -- not to mention Darth Maul, etc....

11. Who's the biggest, baddest dude of the whole Galaxy? He's short, he's green, he has thinning hair, and nope -- he doesn't _really_ need that walking stick after all...

Re:Denny's TV commercial

[larry bagina]

Q: Why does miss piggy douche with honey & vinegar?

A: Because kermit likes sweet & sour pork!

Smart of them to preserve Yoda's "puppetness"

[Artifice_Eternity]

This was the most interesting part of the article for me:

At first, anxious to demonstrate CG's full photorealistic power, the animators took Yoda far beyond his crude former self, having his mouth form full phonemes and moving his body around faster. They also ironed out all the wrinkles: No more jiggly ears or shaky arms or broadly pantomimed walks. But these initial results ''looked creepy,'' says Coleman. ''It looked like a little green man. It wasn't Yoda.''

So they ''dirtied up'' the animation, aping all of Yoda's limitations. When original puppeteer (and voicer) Frank Oz saw the footage, he freaked. ''He said, 'You're even matching my mistakes! Those ear wiggles -- you've got to get those out!''' But Coleman, and especially Lucas, vetoed Oz's request, arguing that the evident puppet-ness of Yoda is in fact what audiences remember best about him, and they still expect it.

They were right. I was impressed by the fact that Yoda still moved like he used to, and didn't suddenly have overarticulated lips. I also noticed his ears trembling occasionally as his head moved. This was essential to selling us on the CGI.

I much prefer the more organic look of puppetry and stop-motion to some of the poorly done CGI in the last couple SW movies (and the "Special Edition" of the 1st trilogy). Two examples: In Star Wars: SE there was a lot of crap that was supposed to "enhance" Mos Eisley, including a Stormtrooper (I think) falling off of a beast he was riding. It looked stupid and fake. In ATC, there was the Sound of Music scene where CGI Anakin fell off of his giant snail, or whatever the hell that thing was. Also incredibly fake. Clue to Lucas: put REAL people on horses, or even on big stuffed models of the creatures you're portraying (like the Taun-Tauns in Empire), and film them falling off. Looks much better.

Suspension of disbelief

[inkswamp]

I'm starting to wonder if our culture isn't collectively losing its ability to suspend their disbelief. Of course, a diminutive warrior like Yoda suddenly flying through the air is going to be funny on the surface. But if you were lost in the film like I was, really submerged into the world on-screen, not self-consciously fearful of what people might think if you let yourself go and connect with it, then that moment was one of the most startling moments in all the SW films.

One nice touch I noticed is that Yoda grabs his cane afterward and we are left to ponder the fact that this guy just moved like lightning in his fight, but has difficultly with the act of walking. It strikes you that he was exerting the Force on himself to move himself through the air and engage in battle. It makes a definitive statement about his ability.

I didn't have trouble with this. I feel sorry for those who couldn't enter that world and experience it full-force. Pity.

--Rick

If you'd noticed

[Srin Tuar]

Its alot harder to move Jedi/Sith around with the force than it is mundane objects.

And saying that size doesnt matter is relative: the amount of effort yoda had to put into stopping the attack is commesurate with the amount of energy that dooku put into it, perhaps compounded with the possible death of the jedi beneath it- he was being careful: and perhaps precient:

He may have wanted to let tyrannous get away, knowing that the master was his true quarry, and that dooku was not the master...

So, Episode II would have been better if...

[dswensen]

... instead of drawing lightsabers, Yoda (who would be a puppet, because believing a CG image is Yoda is so much harder than believing a wad of latex with Frank Oz's hand up its ass is Yoda) should have fought Dooku by using the Force to summon a clunky ethereal knight (done in cheap front projection of course; matte lines just look more -real-, and matching color palettes are for sissies), who then fight in jerky slow-motion.

During this battle, there is much groaning, pantomiming, and grimacing (except for Yoda, who has only two expressions: "furrow brows" and "lower ears." That's okay though, because PUPPETS GOOD.) Then, at the end, when there is a big flash of light (all done with squibs), Dooku says "You never could beat me, Egg Shen."

Yeah, that totally would have been worth my five bucks.

(Oh, and bring back Mr. Perfect, Irvin "Empire Strikes Back, Robocop II, SeaQuest DSV" Kershner to direct, because that man can do no wrong. Just watch that Amazing Stories episode "Hell Toupee.")

Please, take off the rose-colored glasses. The special effects technology of Star Wars has always, always, always been a work in progress. Watch the difference in space battles, and the lightsaber battles, between Episodes IV-VI. They make a quantum leap in sophistication, complexity, and speed.

That's because FX technology was, and is, always developing. This expectation that CG is somehow infallibe, and all its imagery should somehow be perfect and consistent, is rubbish. There's probably a very good reason there wasn't a CGI Yoda in Episode I -- and he will probably look much better in Episode III -- just like everything else.

Star Wars has always been about pushing the technological envelope as far as it will go. Sometimes it works. Sometimes they drop the ball. This has not changed since 1977. Look at any of the movies and you will find places where the special effects are truly great, and places where they stink on ice. Why all of a sudden this warrants another "George Lucas sucks" troll of a story is beyond me.

Star wars fans now == trekkies

[Wylfing]

All you who cry "TPM and AoTC were betrayals" and whine endlessly about how much it suxored and fucking nitpick about whether the physics of Yoda's swordfight were accurate or whether it takes more skill to leap than to parry -- you are all like the worst kind of trekkies now. In other words, you are ruining for the rest of us a perfectly good pulp space opera that is escapist fiction which is not supposed to be realistic .

I am reminded of a Saturday Night Live sketch starring William Shatner, in which he is pelted with inane questions from feverish trekkies about "What was the combination to the lock in Episode 17?" Shatner tries to explain that it was just a prop, and there wasn't really a lock and therefore no combination at all, and the trekkies just stare without comprehension.

You are those fuckwits now. And yes, that means you too, you butt-munch, who are even now preparing a reply that goes something like "But Ep1 and Ep2 really were betrayals." Yes, you are the fuckwits.

Re:I don't like any of the fights

[taxman_10m]

Why don't you go spend the EIGHT dollars to see the movie in all its wonder...

Because I saw the last movie in all its wonder.

Re:I believe its called democratic republic...

[Cryptnotic]

The truth is that Lucas needed her to have a different job in Episode II so that she could fly around from planet to planet and people could try to kill her and Anakin would be forced to protect her and the two of them could have their cheezy dysfunctional romance.

Lucas made a big deal in Episode II about Amidala being the "former Queen" of Naboo. He rubbed our noses in the fact that she "served her term and then the new queen appointed her to be a senator". No mention of this weird system of government was ever made in Episode I.

Lucas had however received quite a bit of criticism about the morality of the Star Wars universe after Episode I came out. Episode I made things look like the universe was one in which the only way to be great was to be born great. Young girls were born into monarchy and being given authority based on their royal birth alone (not just "Queen Amidala" but also "Princess Leia"). The Jedi were all genetically superior (high midiclorian counts). The Force was only strong for Luke Skywalker because he was the son of Darth Vader, not because he was our lonely hero. And the annoying kid Anakin was born by some kind of Immaculate Conception. Lucas altered things in Episode II deliberately to change those perceptions.

This is all despite the fact that the word "queen" in the English language by definition means a woman who marries a king or a woman who is the daughter of the previous king and inherits the throne.

Hamlet reprisal

[mblase]

9. Little Boba Fett is so accustomed to seeing his dad's face only behind his cool helmet that it just wouldn't occur to him to lift the visor or remove the helmet to look at his poor dead dad's decapitated visage (try saying that three times fast!).

The deleted scene actually continued as follows:

Alas, poor Jango! I knew him, C-3PO: a hunter
of infinite skill, of most excellent gadgets: he hath
flown me in Slave-I a thousand times; and now, how
abhorred in my imagination it is! my stomach turns at
it. Here hung those lips that kissed good-night I know
not how oft. Where be your grapples now? your
blasters? your blades? your flying rocket pack,
that was wont to set the grass nearby on fire? Not one
now, to kill the cruel Jedi? quite heart-fallen?
Now get you to my father's spaceship, and once there, let
me paint his armor red, and bounty hunter
become; make them laugh at that.

Ueshiba's undignified demonstrations

[streetlawyer]

Like hell. Unfortunately, a lot of aikidoka have been suckered by that roll of film into studying a useless martial art.

What he lacked in mobility and strength he made up for in grace and economy of movement, and I watched as he would toss aside the students with little hand movements or slow sweeping gestures.

Not quite. What he lacked in mobility and strength, he made up for in being the venerated founder of a school in Japan, where it would be considered appalling behaviour to cast any aspersions on the Venerated One's declining powers.

The students could attack in piles, and still they would be tossed aside like leaves.

More like "the students ran at him in piles and then leapt aside like leaves as he waved a hand at them". Half sub-consciously, the students cooperated in being thrown. The idea that Ueshiba could have done anything remotely similar on a resisting body flies in the face of any non-mystical biomechanics.

It was really magical to watch such an old man possessed of such power.

Alternatively, it was really disgusting to watch an old man posessed of such vanity.

Ueshiba was a genuine fighter as a young man, but during that period, he practiced jujitsu/tai-jutsu. It was only after he founded his own school in 1942 of a state-sponsored, Shinto-flavoured dumbed down taijutsu that he started becoming a cult and staging demonstrations for gullible Westerners.