Slashdot Mirror
How Yoda Became an Action Star
fexter writes: "This article at Entertainment Weekly talks about Yoda's transformation from a puppet to a completely-CG character, and talks about the animators' horror at Lucas' transformation of Yoda: 'When Coleman and crew first saw them, they were appalled. They thought it was unseemly and undignified for Yoda to bounce through the fight like a Superball loose in a toy store.'"
A friend of mine said that the fight scene reminded him (sound wise) of a battle involving Miss Piggy. Unfortunately, now I picture her in the fight instead of Yoda.
The dogcow says "Moof!"
From the first paragraph:
We're talking, of course, about the most crowd-pleasing scene in a movie so far this year, wherein the little green Jedi Master summons the Force to bounce and whoop and haiiii-yah!
No... The most crowd pleasing scene in a movie so far this year was Kirsten Dunst giving mouth to mouth resuscitation to Spiderman in the rain with her nipples hard from the cold.
I have been pwned because my
but he forgot to take a few minutes to warm up as stretching cold muscles can cause injury.
Finally, you understand that Yoda, although frail physically, has the ability to channel the Force in ways that no other Jedi can, at least as far as we have seen.
I don't think that the fight was in any way a detriment to the character, it actually just enhances his mystique. Besides, the irony of him finishing up bouncing off the walls, only to pick up his cane and hobble around again was priceless.
I'm still annoyed at the Yoda fight scene, and I think the animators were right.
Yes, having Yoda kick ass was cool.
But he didn't have to do it by spinning around at 3600RPM.
Yoda is supposed to be relaxed and smug. He should have overwhelmed Dooku with -skill- instead of just being four times faster, with no moment of inertia. That scene would have been twice as good if the big Y had stayed upright, and parried and feinted like a madman. No need for backflips.
Is it me, or were there an awful lot of pages (and ads) in that article?
Fight Club
How Yoda became
click to continue...(page 2/1345)an action star
click to continue...(page 3/1345)With a little help
click to continue...(page 4/1345)from director George Lucas
click to continue...(page 5/1345)The animators were right...he does look like a bouncing Sooperball, it is undignified, and I (and others I asked) found it more comical than amazing.
Denver Isuzu Suzuki
" They thought it was unseemly and undignified for Yoda to bounce through the fight like a Superball loose in a toy store. "
Yes, i have to agree with that, Lucas is a complete moron. Always was and always will be.
He completely disregarded all the background the fans had created for the various characters in the movie ( for example Boba Fetts story ) and managed to ruin things once again.
Not to mention the whole film was PACKED with CG. I mean, ok, sure, CG are nice and helpfull, but for god's sake, do use some real actors and scenert at some point. Every signle thing in the movie was CG'ed. I dont know, it just didnt feel like the StarWars people loved and respected anymore.
As for the duel scene, it was a complete disaster IMHO. Many people in the theatre laughed and laughed after it, when Yoda grabbed his stick to help him walk. Sure, Yoda uses the force blah blah blah, but dont make the duel act as a comic relief.
We await for Episode III - Lucas Epic Disaster.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
You know it looked just like the scene from Karate Kid where Mr. Miyagi opens a can of whoop-ass on those punks. If you use photoshop to color Mr Miyagi green you will see a near perfect match.
http://www.kubuntu.org/
Yoda vs. Miss Piggy.
I'd just love to see Miss Piggy move to her fighting posture, Yoda draw his lightsaber, and Frank Oz get throatache.
In TPM and ATC the jedi fight like samuri. Back with the original trilogy the jedi seemed to me to fight like duelers (mukateers or something), and even then their movements were slower, as if each jedi put a lot of thought into each single move. Watch the new ones, it's a bunch of flashing light and people jumping up and down. The Yoda thing is just the epitome of that. I saw ATM via a download, so maybe someone could clear this up. Did Yoda give Dookie that "bring it on" hand gesture that Neo did in the Matrix? Looked like it to me. It was sad.
-Star Wars: Not the choice of a new generation.
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
Have you seen the new Denny's TV commercial? She and Kermit are ordering breakfast at Denny's. They order a Grand Slam breakfast and go ape-shit because they are overjoyed to be eating pancakes, sausage, and bacon. Man, there is some sick shit on TV these days...
cpeterso
When 875-or-so years old you reach, look as good you will not, eh?
Of course, the bits that really make that scene come immediately before and after the fight, not during, but half the posters on this thread have spoiled the joke for anyone who hasn't seen it yet anyway... :-(
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
The Filthy Critic's take:
"Kirsten Dunst is a very good actress, and each of her tits under a wet shirt is worth a quarter the price of admission. I mean, this is the kind of stuff that makes a man sitting alone in a theater instinctively squeeze the Hamm's he smuggled in."
I love slashdot:
"Lucas is a complete moron. Always was and always will be..... We await for Episode III [but it'll suck]"
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
The animators were right all along, and I had a small piece of my childhood die watching Yoda leap around like a gymnist on crack. Yoda was my favorite character growing up, and that fight scene made no sense. I remember a video I saw of the guy who invented Aikido in the 1900s - I forget his name now. He was a wizened old man in the video, probably pushing ninety years old, his diciples had long-since taken over teaching their own varieties of aikido, and he still showed up in his dojo to train his students and give little demonstrations. What he lacked in mobility and strength he made up for in grace and economy of movement, and I watched as he would toss aside the students with little hand movements or slow sweeping gestures. The students could attack in piles, and still they would be tossed aside like leaves. It was really magical to watch such an old man possessed of such power. Anyway - that's how Yoda should have fought. He should have been slow, graceful and easily dispatched his enemies using only the force. He had no business using a lightsaber, and had no reason to spring about like a ping pong ball. Lastly, the reason Yoda and Boba Fett were awesome characters in the original trilogy was because they were mysterious - unknown pasts, unknown barely hinted-at abilities under the surface. Lucas destroyed their mystique by making them full fleshed-out characters in AOTC.
Despite the fact that I kept picturing kermit doing the fighting with all that bouncing around, I was simply glad that there were no frozen-time effects. Last thing we need is more homage paid to The Matrix with bullet time...
--- http://foo.ca
This Start Wars CG stuff is crap. Did you see some of those graphics? Taking a bite of CG fruit from 3 inches way? Gimme a break.
I say bring back scale models! Watch the old movies. See how the X-Wings look real? That's because they are! How about that AT-AT or "Chicken-Walker"? They looked great, too. They're just small, but hell, WE can't tell.
Yoda as a CG didn't look as real (shaddows and debth looked off), the vehicles, cities, characters, monsters, animals... everything CG looked horrible, except maybe for the light-sabers and lasers.
Wait, I take it back: R2-D2 and C3P0 looked good... oh yeah, they were real! My bad.
I would love it if Lucus, for Epesode III, tossed the CG and brought back the models, rubber masks, and puppets.
If Slashdot is where the spelling-challenged go when they die, I'm in heaven.
...and knights are combatants. It only makes sense for their most respected member to be able dish it out when necessary.
That said, Yoda is more in touch with the light side of the force than all of them. When he is a peace it flows through him and he can do wonders. I personally thought that he should just have "relaxed" and start tossing Doku around like a rag doll when he wipped out the light saber. It is peace that has always been Yoda's ally not violence. I think the Yoda we see in AOTC is more rash and youthful himself. He is arrogant and still has a lesson to learn.
The 'move' that Neo did was was THE SIGNATURE MOVE OF BRUCE LEE!
Come on, while Keanu did kick some AI butt in that movie, credit must be given where credit is due.
The only question now being who would win in a fight? Neo? Bruce Lee? Or Yoda?
Neo can bend reality, Yoda's got the force, and Bruce Lee just takes the hits and keeps coming.
fexter (original story submitter) here...
o ri es/20020525/299070.html
It's only fair to note that the article concludes that it was cool for Yoda to do this, after all:
But, boy, were they wrong: The scene has played like gangbusters, and Yoda is by far the most popular character in the new film (as a recent EW.com poll confirms). He even became the star of the ads, which dropped romantic-lead costars Natalie Portman and Hayden Christensen for him.
But I think this points out the bigger flaw with the movie: that a mentor character becomes, with ease, more popular than the supposed heroes.
I think the writing and direction were the root cause of this.
This article:
http://nationalpost.com/search/story.html?f=/st
was really spot on. All about the missing rogue character.
Lucas talks all about Joseph Campbell's mythology structure, which focuses on the hero's journey. But somehow, in the last two movies, Lucas has managed to avoid giving us any heroes we could enjoy watching.
Sure, he has given us a couple characters who we at least like, but that doesn't mean they're heroes who we root for all the way along, and who we grow *with*. The most recent two movies are more of a series of events than heroes' journeys.
fexter, ashintaro.com
why was Yoda straining to lift the column thing in ep. 2, when in the eyes of the force (as it were) everything is the same. Someone as 'powerful' as Yoda shouldn't have had to strain at all. and why didn't he maneuver it to crush Dooku's escape thing?
That is one fucking awesome movie! That fight scene you describe in only one of several awesome scenes. What makes that particular scene particularly cool is that neither Jet Li or the old Japanese master really want to fight but feel obligated to do so because of the political strife between China and Japan that is a constant undertone in the film. And while the two hold mutual respect for each other, they are perfectly willing to kill the other if need be. But once they start to fight, they both realize their commonality is much more important than their differences, which are really externally-imposed.
Cool movie! Go rent it if you wanna see some kick-ass martial arts!
GMD
watch this
I see the Yoda scene as an expedient solution to problem. I knew Yoda was going to "throw-down" in AOTC, and I wondered how they'd do it. No matter what I pictured in my head it didn't look right, and the animators had to do it on the screen. The solution Lucas came up with seems to be: make him move so fast you can't look at him while he's fighting. Part of me wants to call it it a cop out, but personally I think it works.
It also sort of bothers me when adults complain about Jar-Jar and now CG Yoda. We all saw the original trilogy for the first time when we were younger than we are now. I don't know about you, but I accepted the Ewoks then, and in subsequent viewings I've accepted them (for better or worse) as part of Star Wars package. Attempting impartiality, I don't think they are any better than Jar Jar or CG Yoda.
George Lucas himself, confronted by the fact that the Death Star explosion (and other explosions in a vacuum) shouldn't make a boom said something like: "A lot of people have a lot of money invested in this movie, and when something blows up they expect there to be a boom, so I give them a boom."
Science fiction can be heavy on the science or heavy on the fiction. I think it's clear which side of that fence George Lucas has chosen: you can either go to the show, suspend your disbelief, and be entertained. Or you stay home. But I don't think anyone should expect the prequel movies to become to them now, what the original trilogy was to them starting nearly 25 years ago.
Below is a repreint of a top ten (plus one) list entitled Top 10 Things I learned from Attack of the Clones that circulated around work that was originally compiled by Dan Charlson.
1. There are no police, or more importantly, traffic cops or highway patrol officers, on Coruscant. Endangering pedestrians and other vehicles is just "no big deal."
2. Six-year old Jedi trainees are so capable with their light sabres that you can group them very tightly together -- even wearing "blast shield helmets" -- and have them swing away at training beacons without any concerns for safety.
3. Saruman can wield a mean light sabre -- although thankfully, he hasn't forgotten how to use telekinesis (but why didn't he do some more body-slamming?!? Wait -whaddyou mean this is Star Wars...?)
4. Just because you put a homing device on your opponent's getaway vehicle does NOT mean you shouldn't also follow him or her into a really dangerous asteroid belt instead of just waiting for him or her to come out the other side (you have a tracking device, remember!) -- of course, on the other hand, flying through asteroid belts at high speed is required in the Star Wars universe. [Thanks to JLyle for this one.]
5. The GSO -- Galactic Standards Organization (the future counterpart to the ISO and W3.org) -- has been so successful that not only have ALL major industrial manufacturers adopted the same data access, networking, and transfer protocols throughout the Republic, but so have secret, guerilla arms factories -- and besides, those same factories wouldn't use security software or electronic countermeasures to defend themselves against network intrusions anyway.
6. Even though the Republic has scads of enormous, elongated wedge-shaped Star Destroyers, you should never put them into high orbit around a planet and use them to prevent enemy starships from taking off, let alone using them offensively as long-range artillery weapons against enemy ground forces. Pitting land force against land force is pretty much the best way to go -- you can always make or get more robot or clone soldiers...
7. C3PO is so well-designed that there are power cells in every major constituent of his body -- including his head. [Thanks to JacobJ for this one.]
8. You don't need to wear a helmet or even goggles while you drive hovercraft, land speeders, or other flying vehicles in a desert environment such as Tatooine.
9. Little Boba Fett is so accustomed to seeing his dad's face only behind his cool helmet that it just wouldn't occur to him to lift the visor or remove the helmet to look at his poor dead dad's decapitated visage (try saying that three times fast!).
10. One's reputation, manner, and conduct just can't be guessed by observation alone -- you need to have a name which transparently broadcasts to all but the stupidest that you're not a nice person: Darth Sidious, Lord Tyranno, Count Dooku (?!?) -- not to mention Darth Maul, etc....
11. Who's the biggest, baddest dude of the whole Galaxy? He's short, he's green, he has thinning hair, and nope -- he doesn't _really_ need that walking stick after all...
I liked the scene, but I always envisioned Yoda fighting by just standing still and using the force to manipulate his lightsaber without actually touching it.
Maybe that's not practical in the realm of swordfighting, but I think it'd be a lot cooler.
There's no flying in it, if that's what you mean. It's pretty impressive stuff. The only thing that's really fake about it is how much abuse the fighters take. Some of those shots are definitely death blows.
watch this
This was the most interesting part of the article for me:
At first, anxious to demonstrate CG's full photorealistic power, the animators took Yoda far beyond his crude former self, having his mouth form full phonemes and moving his body around faster. They also ironed out all the wrinkles: No more jiggly ears or shaky arms or broadly pantomimed walks. But these initial results ''looked creepy,'' says Coleman. ''It looked like a little green man. It wasn't Yoda.''
So they ''dirtied up'' the animation, aping all of Yoda's limitations. When original puppeteer (and voicer) Frank Oz saw the footage, he freaked. ''He said, 'You're even matching my mistakes! Those ear wiggles -- you've got to get those out!''' But Coleman, and especially Lucas, vetoed Oz's request, arguing that the evident puppet-ness of Yoda is in fact what audiences remember best about him, and they still expect it.
They were right. I was impressed by the fact that Yoda still moved like he used to, and didn't suddenly have overarticulated lips. I also noticed his ears trembling occasionally as his head moved. This was essential to selling us on the CGI.
I much prefer the more organic look of puppetry and stop-motion to some of the poorly done CGI in the last couple SW movies (and the "Special Edition" of the 1st trilogy). Two examples: In Star Wars: SE there was a lot of crap that was supposed to "enhance" Mos Eisley, including a Stormtrooper (I think) falling off of a beast he was riding. It looked stupid and fake. In ATC, there was the Sound of Music scene where CGI Anakin fell off of his giant snail, or whatever the hell that thing was. Also incredibly fake. Clue to Lucas: put REAL people on horses, or even on big stuffed models of the creatures you're portraying (like the Taun-Tauns in Empire), and film them falling off. Looks much better.
Personally, I think that Ep 1 rivaled Empire as the best Star Wars at the time. I think that Ep 2 blows them all away. This nonsense about the original trilogy being better is absurd.
Jar Jar is NO MORE annoying than C-3PO, except that as a kid I thought that 3PO was funny, and Jar Jar was more annoying to a 20 year old.
The acting in the original trilogy is AWFUL. Hands down, the acting is better.
The dialogue STILL sucks.
However, ALL 5 movies are fun flicks. In all 5 movies, scenes on Tatooine (probably mispelled these days) dragged, though Ep2 sucked less in that regard.
They are fun. Luke/Anakin are whiny, Anakin being less whiny than ANH Luke.
These Space Operas are fun.
It isn't Sci-fi, because it isn't from the future... It's from a long, long time ago!
Alex
I'm starting to wonder if our culture isn't collectively losing its ability to suspend their disbelief. Of course, a diminutive warrior like Yoda suddenly flying through the air is going to be funny on the surface. But if you were lost in the film like I was, really submerged into the world on-screen, not self-consciously fearful of what people might think if you let yourself go and connect with it, then that moment was one of the most startling moments in all the SW films.
One nice touch I noticed is that Yoda grabs his cane afterward and we are left to ponder the fact that this guy just moved like lightning in his fight, but has difficultly with the act of walking. It strikes you that he was exerting the Force on himself to move himself through the air and engage in battle. It makes a definitive statement about his ability.
I didn't have trouble with this. I feel sorry for those who couldn't enter that world and experience it full-force. Pity.
--Rick
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
"the crew... thought it was unseemly and undignified for Yoda to bounce through the fight like a Superball loose in a toy store. ''They thought, My God, this is never going to work."
I admit I thought the same the first time i saw Pat Morita playing ol' Miyagi, but he turned out all right too.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
4. Just because you put a homing device on your opponent's getaway vehicle does NOT mean you shouldn't also follow him or her into a really dangerous asteroid belt
Speaking of this scene, probably the coolest sound effect I have ever heard was when Jango Fett shot those seismic charges at Obi-Wan. Does anyone else remember the noise they made? SOOOO cool. Much better than the normal explosion sound we've all heard so much.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
Zatoichi was way cool.
Of course, the Japanese have been doing cool-guys-with-swords for as long as they've had a cinema (call it 50+ years for argument's sake). SOme black and white samurai movie has done pretty much every cool sword trick already. Not much left for Lucas to do but to steal from the masters.
Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
Can't be so! The Star Wars story takes place "Long, long ago."
Perhaps the Kung Fu masters are the descendants of Jedi?
Its alot harder to move Jedi/Sith around with the force than it is mundane objects.
And saying that size doesnt matter is relative: the amount of effort yoda had to put into stopping the attack is commesurate with the amount of energy that dooku put into it, perhaps compounded with the possible death of the jedi beneath it- he was being careful: and perhaps precient:
He may have wanted to let tyrannous get away, knowing that the master was his true quarry, and that dooku was not the master...
Might be the first "scientically accurate" sound fx in the entire Star Wars universe. ;-)
The Yoda scenes were entertaining, but could in no way shape or form make up for the horrific acting by Anakin or the awful dialog.
During the big one, by the fireplace...yeah, that one... When Anakin says his famous (very stupid) line "If you're suffering as much as I am, tell me...", someone in the theatre (all right, I admit, it was me) shouted, "We are! Cut the scene!"
Moral: ANAKIN CAN'T ACT!!
Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. --Ford Prefect
... instead of drawing lightsabers, Yoda (who would be a puppet, because believing a CG image is Yoda is so much harder than believing a wad of latex with Frank Oz's hand up its ass is Yoda) should have fought Dooku by using the Force to summon a clunky ethereal knight (done in cheap front projection of course; matte lines just look more -real-, and matching color palettes are for sissies), who then fight in jerky slow-motion.
During this battle, there is much groaning, pantomiming, and grimacing (except for Yoda, who has only two expressions: "furrow brows" and "lower ears." That's okay though, because PUPPETS GOOD.) Then, at the end, when there is a big flash of light (all done with squibs), Dooku says "You never could beat me, Egg Shen."
Yeah, that totally would have been worth my five bucks.
(Oh, and bring back Mr. Perfect, Irvin "Empire Strikes Back, Robocop II, SeaQuest DSV" Kershner to direct, because that man can do no wrong. Just watch that Amazing Stories episode "Hell Toupee.")
Please, take off the rose-colored glasses. The special effects technology of Star Wars has always, always, always been a work in progress. Watch the difference in space battles, and the lightsaber battles, between Episodes IV-VI. They make a quantum leap in sophistication, complexity, and speed.
That's because FX technology was, and is, always developing. This expectation that CG is somehow infallibe, and all its imagery should somehow be perfect and consistent, is rubbish. There's probably a very good reason there wasn't a CGI Yoda in Episode I -- and he will probably look much better in Episode III -- just like everything else.
Star Wars has always been about pushing the technological envelope as far as it will go. Sometimes it works. Sometimes they drop the ball. This has not changed since 1977. Look at any of the movies and you will find places where the special effects are truly great, and places where they stink on ice. Why all of a sudden this warrants another "George Lucas sucks" troll of a story is beyond me.
I am reminded of a Saturday Night Live sketch starring William Shatner, in which he is pelted with inane questions from feverish trekkies about "What was the combination to the lock in Episode 17?" Shatner tries to explain that it was just a prop, and there wasn't really a lock and therefore no combination at all, and the trekkies just stare without comprehension.
You are those fuckwits now. And yes, that means you too, you butt-munch, who are even now preparing a reply that goes something like "But Ep1 and Ep2 really were betrayals." Yes, you are the fuckwits.
Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
I can't be the only one who remembers Yoda beating R2D2 with a stick and stealing Luke's candybar. I can think of many reasons that the recent Star Wars movies are no good, but this one doesn't fly.
there is some wire work in it(ibelieve jet li runs and flips off a wall at one point).
it is no doubt one of the best martial arts movies out there. unfortunatly disney's release of it is cut(the ending is slightly different, in the original ending, jet li trains a group of martial artists to fight the japanese, also a smoking scene at the brothel is cut) and dubbed in english(instead of japanese and either cantonese or mandarin, the funny part is that the dialogue was changed in the parts of the movie where english was spoken(like the court scene). this is too bad because what the judge says in english is funny. its also still 25 bucks at best buy.
you can find the hk dvd online, but it is dubbed in the wrong chinese(can't remember if it is cantonese or mandarin), it is definatly worth watching and i'm surprised it didnt make it to the screens instead of black mask.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
Dooku was just barely keeping Yoda at bay, and Yoda wasn't even winded - Yoda was just playing with Dooku at that point. To me, the scene was really well done and I thought somewhat the same as the scene you mention.
:-)
As for just force shoving them aside - how do you know it wouldn't have taken the floor out with it if it were just left to fall? Frankly, I'd trust Yoda's judement in this matter if I were you!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Aww, I totally missed that. I was sure the head was going to fall out of the helmet as Boba picked it up.
I think that can be resolved by saying that larger objects are not more difficult to move, but that they might take a bit longer to overcome.
Also, Yoda did say the difference in size was all in his mind. Perhaps even Yoda faces some barriers in that respect and can not totally get the size of an object out of his mind, even though he knows logically it would not be any different to move.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You forgot the most important one.
12) When you have the technology to make anything no matter how small or large float, hover and manuever perfectly you will still make devices with wheels, legs, rollers and all kinds of other cumbersome locomotion methods.
War is necrophilia.
"Oh, hell, just shoot him with the gun" - Steven Speilberg, during the filming of Raiders of the Lost Ark, when Harrison Ford had an injury from the previous day's filming.
Three words: Li Mu Bai. Things would have been better if Yoda had had the dignity of Mu Bai for this fight scene.
Wouldn't that just be a bad ass crossover, Li Mu Bai against Doku. Then I could stomach the flying because it would be graceful, not like Sonic.
Shoulda had Woo Ping choerograph the fight. Maybe we can hope King George will get him to consult for the next one.
What if it is just turtles all the way down?
---but you cannot use the force to harm someone....that is the way of the dark side---
What bollocks. Force for a good cause is perfectly justified. Allowing Dooku to run off contributes to millions upon millions of deaths. Striking out against evil does not make you evil, no matter what Lucas' crazy mysticism demands. As David B said, good people have good friends to help you deal with the things you might have to do in the name of justice, and yet still stay a good person.
You forgot that it is not okay for Anakin to go back to save his woman because it isn't an important goal, but it is okay for yoda to let dooku go to save anakin from a falling metal pillar.
-Sean
David Carradine benefited from slow and stupid opponents. Bruce Lee would have -- should have -- killed him in seconds.
Slow Yoda would have sucked. Yoda as bunny-on-crystal-meta had the people in the theatre cheering, which is what counts.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Tuesday afternoon matinees at our local theater cost five bucks. I like Star Wars, but I've yet to pay for an evening showing (which is more like eight bucks).
the part that was retarded was how he struggled to move the pillar when Dooku collapsed it over Obi-wan and Anakin - move the PEOPLE, dumbass, not the humongous pillar thing.
1. There are no police, or more importantly, traffic cops or highway patrol officers, on Coruscant. Endangering pedestrians and other vehicles is just "no big deal."
;)
;)
;)
;)
;-D
;) ), and allow his memory to be kept functional and accessible in the event of damage to his torso or primary power unit. We've never seen his arms or legs move on their own when they fall off, so it would seem that his head and his torso each have a power supply.
;)
;) As for the others...Dooku isn't really a sinister-sounding name (silly, yes, sinister, no... ;) ). And maybe I missed something, but who the heck is Lord Tyranno? Don't remember hearing that name before...
;) Although I just can't picture Yoda with a full head of hair. Maybe he never did have one. Heck, maybe he never had any hair at all when he was a young...um...green short dude. Ya know how old men get hair growing out of their ears? ;)
Maybe there are...but you know there's never a cop around when you need one...
2. Six-year old Jedi trainees are so capable with their light sabres that you can group them very tightly together -- even wearing "blast shield helmets" -- and have them swing away at training beacons without any concerns for safety.
They could have been "practice" lightsabers...capable of deflecting a target drone's light blaster bolts, but not of removing the appendages of the trainee next to you.
3. Saruman can wield a mean light sabre -- although thankfully, he hasn't forgotten how to use telekinesis (but why didn't he do some more body-slamming?!? Wait -whaddyou mean this is Star Wars...?)
Heh...glad I wasn't the only one having deja vu during that point in the movie...
4. Just because you put a homing device on your opponent's getaway vehicle does NOT mean you shouldn't also follow him or her into a really dangerous asteroid belt instead of just waiting for him or her to come out the other side (you have a tracking device, remember!) -- of course, on the other hand, flying through asteroid belts at high speed is required in the Star Wars universe.
Maybe it's a short-range tracking device? Maybe great Jedi Master Obi-Wan's a little hot under the collar at being thrashed by a low-life bounty hunter and his clone-kid, and isn't thinking straight?
5. The GSO -- Galactic Standards Organization (the future counterpart to the ISO and W3.org) -- has been so successful that not only have ALL major industrial manufacturers adopted the same data access, networking, and transfer protocols throughout the Republic, but so have secret, guerilla arms factories -- and besides, those same factories wouldn't use security software or electronic countermeasures to defend themselves against network intrusions anyway.
Artoo's just a rolling, beeping Black Box. He can crack any system in seconds. Maybe there's a Powerbook under that blue dome?
6. Even though the Republic has scads of enormous, elongated wedge-shaped Star Destroyers, you should never put them into high orbit around a planet and use them to prevent enemy starships from taking off, let alone using them offensively as long-range artillery weapons against enemy ground forces. Pitting land force against land force is pretty much the best way to go -- you can always make or get more robot or clone soldiers...
Those big ships aren't Star Destroyers, though they are probably early ancestors. They seem to be designed more for troop transport and deployment than planetary bombardment. For all we know, they could be lightly-armed transports...we never see them in battle. Remember, the clone army, developed in secret over a decade or so, was Palaptine's ace in the hole. I don't think he had the time or the resources to construct a fleet of powerful warships in the short time he was in power, and it's reasonable to assume that a Republic without a standing army probably didn't have much in the way of a battle fleet either. Palaptine's primary goal at that time would have been to move his army to the battle zone. Once the war gets rolling, he will have plenty of time (and public support) for constructing fleets of massive battle cruisers.
7. C3PO is so well-designed that there are power cells in every major constituent of his body -- including his head.
Well, it wouldn't be suprising that he would have at least a redundant power supply in his head (which obviously contains his cognitive functions). It would make him more modular (as we've seen
8. You don't need to wear a helmet or even goggles while you drive hovercraft, land speeders, or other flying vehicles in a desert environment such as Tatooine.
Luke's landspeeder in ANH had a windscreen. Granted, it was pretty small, but it would have helped. It's also possible that the repulsorlifts in vehicles may have the side effect of repelling sand, dirt, and other particles. Even if they didn't, a light deflector screen could be employed...it wouldn't take much to deflect incoming particles away from the driver. And Anakin has the Force, of course...
9. Little Boba Fett is so accustomed to seeing his dad's face only behind his cool helmet that it just wouldn't occur to him to lift the visor or remove the helmet to look at his poor dead dad's decapitated visage (try saying that three times fast!).
Barring the argument of whether dear old Dad's head was still in his helmet or not (I wasn't paying that much attention, to be honest...), assuming his head WAS still in there, just how is little Boba going to remove the helmet? Reach up his Daddy's neck, grab a handy vertebra, and yank? Ewww...
10. One's reputation, manner, and conduct just can't be guessed by observation alone -- you need to have a name which transparently broadcasts to all but the stupidest that you're not a nice person: Darth Sidious, Lord Tyranno, Count Dooku (?!?) -- not to mention Darth Maul, etc....
Well, for the Sith, perhaps they choose their own names. Obviously, until they gained control of most of the galaxy, they didn't parade them around much. I doubt Darth Sidious introduced himself as such at cocktail parties...
11. Who's the biggest, baddest dude of the whole Galaxy? He's short, he's green, he has thinning hair, and nope -- he doesn't _really_ need that walking stick after all...
Hoo yeah...
DennyK
In that case, you have no dark Jedi, but you still have guys running around with weapons with destructive power enough to destroy entire planets. It seems to me that the balance of power is radically in favor of the light-side Jedi. Force powers have only a marginal impact on one's ability to seize power, or destroy order. Drone armies and Death Stars are really a lot more useful than the ability to choke someone with your mind when you're trying to keep a galactic empire under your heel. On the other hand, true Jedis have an enormous impact, because without them to pull off miraculous stuff like hitting that exhaust port, the forces of evil would clobber the forces of good, because good is dumb.
Come on man, its a movie. Shit like that can be forgiven.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
The truth is that Lucas needed her to have a different job in Episode II so that she could fly around from planet to planet and people could try to kill her and Anakin would be forced to protect her and the two of them could have their cheezy dysfunctional romance.
Lucas made a big deal in Episode II about Amidala being the "former Queen" of Naboo. He rubbed our noses in the fact that she "served her term and then the new queen appointed her to be a senator". No mention of this weird system of government was ever made in Episode I.
Lucas had however received quite a bit of criticism about the morality of the Star Wars universe after Episode I came out. Episode I made things look like the universe was one in which the only way to be great was to be born great. Young girls were born into monarchy and being given authority based on their royal birth alone (not just "Queen Amidala" but also "Princess Leia"). The Jedi were all genetically superior (high midiclorian counts). The Force was only strong for Luke Skywalker because he was the son of Darth Vader, not because he was our lonely hero. And the annoying kid Anakin was born by some kind of Immaculate Conception. Lucas altered things in Episode II deliberately to change those perceptions.
This is all despite the fact that the word "queen" in the English language by definition means a woman who marries a king or a woman who is the daughter of the previous king and inherits the throne.
My other first post is car post.
I can think of two reasons: 1) Lucas didn't want him to, or 2) Yoda is really pretty stupid.
Hmm... It sounded a bit too much like a power chord on an electric guitar to me. I kept expecting Ozzy Osbourne to start singing at any moment ;)
And they have a standardised head/neck connector for robots, so ubiquitous that everyone from mass producers of military hardware to home hobbyist slave kids on Tatooine use it.
Yoda is the greatest of all Jedi Masters. Not only the most skilled with The Force, but also the best with a light sabre. This is even mentioned in the original trilogy repeatedly with instances of Yoda stating, "judge me by my size, do you?" Then, he proceeds to lift an entire X-Wing fighter, full of water, out of a murky swamp.
In otherwords, we've known from the beginning that Yoda has been hiding himself, taking advantage of a key mistake made by his opponents: that they would underestimate him. (Note also that he knows those of the Dark Side do this all the time, and thus comments to it.)
When George Lucas decided to have Yoda fight, I think most of us were thrilled, not appauled. Finally, we got to see the greatest of all Jedi do battle. And it was good. Even if you don't think Yoda should have a sabre, at least consider that watching Yoda do a bunch of psionics would be very boring at least. For me, it realized a very well-known plot element.
Why bother.
I think you're right, most people wouldn't appreciate a realistic fight scene in a film.
OTOH, if you're really fighting with weapons, there's an almost-truism that if you can get inside the reach of the other guy's weapon, his weapon is a handicap. If reality you seek, then Yoda a mini-lightsabre should wield. Inside Dooku's range he should fight to demonstrate his skill.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
In a vacuum, there is no sound, since there is nothing to vibrate. Not until something that is vibrating (the stuff) gets to you would you be able to hear anything.
That's the kind of thing that makes me want to scream! It all happened "a long time ago"---It's supposed to be a fairy tale! And why is it moraly wrong to have a universe in which it is necessary to be born great to be great? I'll tell you why: Because it contradicts the American Dream. And that's the reason that I want to scream out loud. I am NOT american, and to anyone like me it feels like an assault of the mind to be made to believe that americans have seen the light and everyone else has not! (I will now go and eat som fruit to raise my bloodsugar).
/Adam Lett
Also, along the lines of the senator being appointed, that isn't that unusual considering that there was an unexpected vacancy.
Senator Palpatine became Chancelor & was unable to finish his term as Senator for Naboo. The elected government of Naboo would have to appoint a replacement senator until elections could be held. Imagine now that the (democratically elected) queen's term ended before a new senator was appointed & the new queen appointed the old queen to finish out the senator's term.
[aside: I think I should have used "former queen"...I think "old queen" usually means something else]
Even if you assume that the term was less than the 10 years that passed between the Chancelor's election & AoTC, we could just accept that after finishing out the term she was appointed to she was elected to several more terms.
There were actually several references to her being elected in Ep I. They never mentioned a term length, so I think a lot of people assumed it was a life-term because of the whole Queen title.
Lib.BENCH the only site you'll ever need!
Now you are asking to be pooped on (17 MG file).
Woz
Um, neither are Galaxy-spanning Empires woven together with FTL starships and communicators...
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
That said, it is pure hogwash to think that a planet would elect a 14 year old to rule them.
If people cannot even suspend their disbelief
for a FICTIONAL STORY, and allow for the fact
that people a LONG TIME AGO in a FAR-AWAY galaxy
could have different belief systems, one wonders
if tolerance of cultural differences is at
all possible in our world.
Considered harmful.
12. A Republic with thousands of star systems that has endured from thousands of years will have no standing army or plan to defend the seat of government when attacked by a quickly assembled army of droids.
Spoken like a true anonymous coward.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. -- Carl Sagan
Y: Pinned I have you, Count Dooku. Why then smiling you are?
D: Because I know something you do not know, Master Yoda. You see, I am not left-handed!
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
Well, 3PO still had his original personality, and he was built by a little kid.
So why wouldn't an eight-year old give his robot a taste for puns?
Plausible explanations:
1.) Emperor Palpatine drained his energy levels badly while he was zapping the kishkes out of Luke. This allowed Vader/Anakin to take Palpatine by surprise and throw down. (literally)
2.) Luke's training was far from complete in TESB. Remember how concerned Yoda was? Remember how both Yoda and the shade of Obi-Wan speculated at the end of TESB that Luke was bound for the Dark Side like his father before him? If he had been trained to the point he was in ROTJ he would have had more of a chance. Also, remember that Luke was suffering from shock...you get your hand lopped off, force or no force you are prolly in shock after the event.
It doesn't offend me at all that Yoda is able to fight like an Anime/HK martial arts character because of his intense connection to The Force. It offended me far more when Lucas stooped to a biological explanation of The Force in TPM. I had always envisioned The Force as completely numinous...100% supernatural. Sort of like the true, ineffable Dao of Lao Tze. All that talk about blood midichlorian count was a big bring-down. I didn't like Jar-Jar but I could live with his existance more than the midichlorians and a biological explanation of the Force.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
The deleted scene actually continued as follows:
The impression that I always got was that you can't actually levitate yourself with the force - you can "push" with it, so you can jump high, and control a fall, and if you're seriously badass like Yoda you can maybe hover for a second, but actually flying, like Luke or the Emperor would have needed to do is beyond them.
What he lacked in mobility and strength he made up for in grace and economy of movement, and I watched as he would toss aside the students with little hand movements or slow sweeping gestures.
Not quite. What he lacked in mobility and strength, he made up for in being the venerated founder of a school in Japan, where it would be considered appalling behaviour to cast any aspersions on the Venerated One's declining powers.
The students could attack in piles, and still they would be tossed aside like leaves.
More like "the students ran at him in piles and then leapt aside like leaves as he waved a hand at them". Half sub-consciously, the students cooperated in being thrown. The idea that Ueshiba could have done anything remotely similar on a resisting body flies in the face of any non-mystical biomechanics.
It was really magical to watch such an old man possessed of such power.
Alternatively, it was really disgusting to watch an old man posessed of such vanity.
Ueshiba was a genuine fighter as a young man, but during that period, he practiced jujitsu/tai-jutsu. It was only after he founded his own school in 1942 of a state-sponsored, Shinto-flavoured dumbed down taijutsu that he started becoming a cult and staging demonstrations for gullible Westerners.
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"Shit" is about right. Even if you can work aikido on a resisting subject, rather than a cooperating, uke, their next move is to grab hold of your legs and pull you down to the ground with them. At which point you're fucked because aikido doesn't have any groundwork.
It's a lot of fun to leap around pretending to be thrown and all that, but as a martial art, aikido is about on the level of tai chi.
-- the most controversial site on the Web
The wall jump in that movie is wireless. I can perform it on any random brick wall.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Aah...yes, I think you're right. Well, in that case, like the other Sith, he probably chose his own sinister moniker, or had it chosen for him. ;)
DennyK
The Jedi are "keepers of the peace", not traffic cops. They would be more like a cross between the FBI and a diplomatic corps. I doubt they would be concerned with minor things like traffic violations. ;)
DennyK
- Yoda was obviously trying to help Luke grow. Part of that was physical and mental conditioning. Luke would be running through the forest with Yoda giving him Force lessons.
- A good Jedi doesn't let anger/hate/etc. affect him. Hence, you can't just 'piss Yoda off.'
- Jedi will act to protect others. Dooku was setting up to wipe out Obi-Wan and Anakin. Yoda was simply coming to the rescue. You'll notice from the dialog that Yoda retains his composure throughout the entire sequence. Contrast this with Luke facing the Emperor and Darth Vader. Luke in that situation is quite obviously struggling with his hate and anger.
The fight scene, instead of making you feel dirty, should make you proud of Yoda as an exemplary Jedi Master.What is your Slash Rating?
And he's the same person as Dooku.
What is your Slash Rating?
Notice as Anubis Army overruns the city...the head Anubis Warrior has his foot on a severed head....I forget the rating on that movie, but it's PG-something.
What is your Slash Rating?
Out of all the whiny brats who hate Star Wars because it doesn't live up to their outrageous expectations, I finally find someone with exactly the same perspective I have. I just wish more people enjoyed the movies for what they are rather than griping about what they aren't.
What is your Slash Rating?
'Short range tracking device' that trucks through hyperspace in 'short range' as well? Mother!
You can't handle the truth.
Ever seen Ali, Parkinson's making it nearly impossible for him to walk or talk, start throwing punches? It's incredible -- it's like the disease can't get to that gift Ali has that nobody's come close to matching.
Though it's hard to read this into a CG Yoda, that's sort of what I was thinking about when I saw him limp off.
It's all 0s and 1s. Or it's not.
Fucknob. Handjob. Cockgobbler. Ass Badger. Ass Clown. Fuckstick. Skinmunch. Buttslobber. Ass Weasel. Chickenjob. Cockbagger. JeanCream.
Feel free to add on.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
for some reason lucas wants to interject humor into the story (maybe in tribute to the kurosawa movies he used as inspiration), but it felt rather forced in those sceens.
I remember being a little kid and being annoyed at c3po and r2d2's role as the comic releif in the story,their joking antics really didn't add anything to the story itself, but their characters were usefull to the story.
3po's role in that part of the film wasn't necesscary for any other reason than to attempt to make people laugh(the only laughing i heard in the movie was when yoda turned into a bluring mess), r2d2 on the otherhand was useful.
lucas is aiming for a younger audience(or at least what feels like a younger audience than the original versions of the original films) so he has to make parts of the movie relate to little kids wether we as adults like it or not(and i don't).
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
I thought that the face plate was going to explode, and underneath you'd see Luke's face.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
For some reason I thought you were trying to express valid opinions rather than just trolling. Sadly, I was mistaken. I'd sit here and argue with you about whether I was being anal retentive, Episodes 4-6, acting, writing and dialogue, etc., but as a troll you probably wouldn't have the capacity to make a reasoned, thoughtful, cogent, and (shocker) cleanly written response...
What is your Slash Rating?
Also, Yoda was trying to drive home a very personal point to his former student; that no matter what Dooku's game was, and no matter how much Dark Side force he put into it, Yoda could whup him. Hell, I almost think Yoda made a point of not slaying him, so he could run away and think about how much he got his ass kicked.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Good sir, I read your comment and took a long, hard analytical look at myself. And in no way could I be classified as a "butt-munch". However the rest of your comment rings of truth to my ears like a golden church bell on a beautiful Sunday morn.
and what was the combination to that lock in episode 17?
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Christ almighty, you've nearly collected the whole set of useless martial arts; all you need now is tai chi and perhaps a little bit of boxercise. A Hapkido teacher would be right in saying that, although one might ask him why he wasted so much of his time doing it then, since Hapkido has few health benefits and looks like shit.
With the commencement of the twentieth century where machine guns can kills thousands and bombs can kill millions, all schools of martial arts have had to introspect on their internal value and where their future may lie.
With the continuing popularity of nightclubs, bars and dance halls, it is ridiculous to suggest that hand-to-hand combat without weapons is not still highly relevant to the lives of a lot of people. Anything calling itself a "martial" art which leaves people no more able to fight than if they'd spent the time playing darts ought to be prepared to be laughed at.
-- the most controversial site on the Web
This is not really the point. The point is that a good story shouldn't require you to throw away everything you know about what things actually mean, just so that George lucas can still a 14 year old girl in his movies to get all the little geek school kiddies going wild. Its so transparent that he is just making up shit to try and fit in the actors that he wants to use and the merchandising that he wants to sell. that is the problem.
"Me and my girl named bimbo . . . limbo . . . spam" - Captain Beefheart.
It's also hogwash to think that a country would elect a former coke addict to rule them.
Shit happens. Grow mushrooms
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
Why should a sports or artforms be disqualified as 'martial arts' just because they are impractical in this age? Archery and Greco-Roman wrestling are important contests within the Olympics. I don't see any spectators laughing
You are surely kidding if you think people don't laugh at Greco-Roman wrestlers. It's an absolutely risible sport. And it is a sport, not a "martial art" in the ordinary language meaning of the phrase. Archery is certainly not impractical, as Ted Nugent will tell you.
If you are only interested in kiling and maiming
Hang on, you're the one defending tai chi with all those "dim mak killer touches", eye gouges and strikes to the throat! I'm interested in being able to defend myself in a manner consistent with the law of the land and common humanity. Which is to say, to be able to trade a punch for a punch, or to be able to grapple someone to submission. Heck, I'd be happy to learn wrist locks and aikido nage if they worked on resisting opponents, which they don't.
-- the most controversial site on the Web
First of all, Tai-chi is based on the philosophy of Taosim
Wrong. This is more fairy stories. The only documented histories of tai chi chu'an place its beginnings squarely in the Chen village in Henan province. The modern inhabitants of Chen village are not Taoists, and there is no evidence that they ever were. Fanciful lineages taking tai chi back to Taoist sages or to Wudang Mountain have no verifiable basis.
Some of them purport to teach these "dim mak killer touches", but that is NOT in the TaiChi curriculum.
Really? Or is it not on the curriculum of your particular school, because you have a fraud for a teacher who is making it up as he goes along. The links between tai chi and traditional chinese medicine are well known.
As for sparring and combat, I can testify that I've seen taichi practitioner sparring. They can be as fast a furious as any other styles.The difference lies in how the forces are applied and directed: not something obvious to the casual observer
Like hell. People have been laughing at traditional chinese martial arts types for the last twenty years for claiming to have loads of "hidden force" powers that nobody can detect, but the message isn't apparently getting through.
As for jujitsu, there doesn't seem to be any techniques there that is not already covered in the various "qiam na xao" (Capture & Grasping Hand) techniques. Nothing special here.
Except that ju jitsu players train to apply these techiques to resisting opponents. Big difference.
-- the most controversial site on the Web