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Walmart Ships PCs with Lindows OS
Tonetheman writes "Walmart is now shipping low cost PC's with Lindows pre-installed. And yes I know there was a review earlier on Slashdot about installing Linux on one of these bad boys. This is different and much more exciting. To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows..." There's a Newsforge story too. Hopefully Lindows makes a good impression.
Damn, that's gonna cause confusion with tech support.
"What OS are you using?"
"Lindows"
"Windows?"
"Yeah, Lindows"
Seems like the wal-mart grade rednecks will be the frontrunners of the linux desktop revolution. Bet you didn't see that coming!
idm owns me
A company as large as Walmart might be just big enough and have enough bargain-basement customers to make this fly. And at $299 for the Duron 850mhz model, who can't afford one of these.
One problem I can see is that the hardware in these systems might(and probably is) of sub-par level. Instability issues caused by poor hardware quality may undermine the "frugal" consumer's viewpoint of the *nix OS enviroment. Not to mention that they'll have a hard time finding tech support locally considering that most tech shops are generally geared towards MS products and not Linux.
Duris MUD - The best pkill MUD. Ever.
AFAIK, Lindows is based on wine. Wal-Mart customers will tend to buy a lot of games for their computer. Sounds to me like manufactures will soon find it a requirement to test their games with Lindows, and thus they will be wine compatable too.
Not as good as native linux games, but a close second. If nothing else this could drive some real compitition to microsoft!
If only it works... I'm not holding my breath yet.
Redneck just got a computer...
1997: I got Winders Ninedy Eight!
2000: I got Winders Doodousand!
2001: I got Winders EckPee!
2002: I got Linders? What da hell is Linders?
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
To me, it didn't seem to be much more than KDE2 default with a pretty picture for the background. This is a problem. KDE default is NOT intuitive to Windows users.
I am currently helping a co-worker who is curious about Linux learn her way around on one of the spare machines here. Her first question (w/ RH 7.3 default) was that even after 10 minutes of poking at stuff she could not find the taskbar buried in with all that other stuff. That was just the beginning.
If you are going to cater to the Windows crowd you have to _really_ cater to them, not just change the icon theme.
Walmart is about the only US company I can think of that can actually take on MS. Walmart isn't really rooted in the technology industry so they don't stand to lose as much as say, Dell, from taking a stab at selling Lindows computers. I think most of us who know anything about MS know that the reason that Dell, HP, etc. etc... don't sell machines without Windows or even dual-boot machines with something other than two versions of Windows is because MS would revoke their license to sell Windows.
Screw the "legions of rednecks" idea, I believe there are many people who are curious enough about other OSes to get an extra computer, especially since they are supposed to be cheap, from Walmart just to poke around. Who knows once the average Joe realized that their are other options maybe he'll download some Debian images and never use Windows again.
Cheers to Walmart, good job guys.
sig
You know, I've a couple of posts around /. lately talking about how great the /. community is..caring and helpful, but in the few posts I see here so far, all I see it snobbery. Just because someone lives near a Wal-Mart or goes to a Wal-Mart to buy stuff (even if it's a computer), doesn't make that person a hick or a red-neck.
Maybe you people should be glad that Wal-Mart is embracing something other than Windows, instead of being so damn smug. Get off your high horse and join the movement, or shut the f*** up.
That's all I have to say about that.
*** Stop trying to be cool. ***
I think some of you are expressing concern because you don't want the mass public using anything but Windows. When everyone starts moving in on your elite OS, it no longer is the cool thing to use, so you must find something else to move on to....
There's no "I" in Linux.. err..
Maybe I missed something...but last time I checked Lindows was still in beta stage, and with good reason too!
From my experience, they might be combining MS-like stability and security (running everything as root etc.) with Linux-like usability*, resulting in a horribly unusable OS - for which Linux will most probably get the blame by mainstream reporters. Ah well, we'll see.
Walmarts idea is probably something like this: they can save money on the computers this way, and they probably don't really care about what their customers use it for (do they have a reason to? Do they have to offer support etc.?), so that would explain things....
* usability for Joe Avg. User, e.g. consistent GUI's and stuff, you know what I mean...combining Wine and KDE and X will not get you a very consistent UI experience probably....
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
I can just imagine millions of these things selling widely. Then every single one being hacked by one group with the same root exploit. Think of the headlines "Wal-Mart facilitates domestic terrorism" "Internet Weakened by Linux manchines" etc. In some ways it's kind of what the ADTI people want.
The sum of all Lindows fears.
"To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows..."
It sounds funny, but just wait till they buy and try to install something made for Windows. Much to their surprise, it won't work, and they'll be calling up Wal-Mart asking them what kind of shinanigans they were trying to pull.
Now I haven't seen the packaging for these Lindows PCs, but I'd be willing to bet that some people COULD be confused into believing they're in fact buying a Windows PC. When they do discover their error, they'll think they were suckered into buying some kind of like a cheap knock-off (don't have the exact appropriate Simpsons quote).
If that happens, it's probably not the kind of PR that Lindows is looking for. Both Lindows and Wal-Mart have to be very careful to make sure the differences between Windows and Lindows are clearly explained.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Of course it will. They'll think it's fantastic, right up to the point when they try to install their favourite Windows applications and it all goes horribly wrong.
Then they'll mutter "crock of shit" and take it back to Walmart to complain.
Not that I blame them, Walmart is advertising it as having the ability to run most Microsoft software, which (unless it's changed drastically) isn't quite the case.
I'm all for getting Linux to the masses, but if they oversell what it can do, then they'll end up putting off people rather than attracting them.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
MS whores? No, the posts in here have been from Linux elitists. "Down with Microsoft, but screw the non-technical users, we don't want them" has been the general gist of the comments so far. No wonder Linux hasn't gotten much market share in the desktop market - the people who write it don't WANT average people to use it.
As far as I can tell this new promotion is like the OS-less PC promotion. It is being offered online only. You can not go into a Wal*Mart store and buy and OS-less PC. I doubt you will be able to go into a Wal*Mart store and buy a Lindows PC.
So, who has access to the Wal*Mart website? Those people who already have a computer. Who goes to Wal*Mart.com to buy a PC? Outside of those people that want an OS-less PC to install Linux on, probably not a large number of people.
This isn't going to convert unsuspecting people to Linux users (a dangerous thing to wish for at any rate). It isn't going to spread Linux to the mass market. It isn't going to steal any appreciable market share away from Microsoft.
It's noteworthy for the fact that a major retailer has thumbed their nose at Microsoft. But, that same major retailer is only thumbing their nose while behind a box in a locked room with the shades drawn so that the world can not really see that they are doing it.
If other major computer resellers follow suit (which I doubt they will), then this will become interesting. Now, though, it's nothing more than YALPOS (Yet Another Linux Post On Slashdot)
what kills me about the Linux crowd, please excuse the generalization, is that there is absolute belief in the superiority of the platform, and absolute obsession with the lack of respect it gets in the mainstream.
But what makes this observation interesting is that their is also an undercurrent of clubiness (sic?) about the whole thing. The idea that the masses could actually start using Linux is troubling to this group, as it would dilute the cachet of the club. This is bizarre to say the least, as mainstream adoption of Linux would only serve to achieve the first point, respect, and of course the other obsession, deflation of microsoft.
I don't take particular offense to the redneck comments, but you would really have to be an idiot to think that only rednecks shop at Walmart. I mean, christ, they have over $200b in sales. I guess the only thing that would make you a bigger idiot is to not understand how many personal computers are sold in the US annually, and how many of them go through channels like walmart.
The only way Lindows is going to catch on with the 'necks is if you can run one of the Big Game Hunter or Super Bass Fishing games on it.
Mark my words.
Go on, mark 'em! I dare you!
aren't they afraid of claims for 'not functioning like windows
It isn't windows.
If what you expect Genuine Windows then BUY Genuine Windows.
Hopefully the good differences will be better than the bad differences, but there is a difference. I've never used it, so I don't know if it's "ready".
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
For Wal-Mart to be using their power and credibility to position Lindows like this - as a direct alternative to a "commoditized" Windows OS - should be making MS shake in their boots. This is really big. I hope that this is more than just an experiment but a whole-hearted effort to introduce and market these systems to the average shopper.
Previously, Linux and other alternatives have been positioned as being too disimilar to Windows for the average consumer to take notice. While early adopters and niche users may see the differences as the key selling points, the average consumer is looking for compatibility and familiarity FIRST, then other advantages SECOND (price, stability, and misc. features).
Wal-Mart's actions not only position alternative operating systems in a different light, they also serve to re-position Windows itself by making the Windows Operating System appear to be a commodity like the PC has long been. When advertising the compatibility of Lindows, their enormous market power allow them to be more liberal with their use of the Microsoft and Windows brandnames than your average software developer or computer retailer could ever chance.
This is may be very analogous to what happened to the IBM PC vs. the clones as well as the situation with generic drugs. Many continue to buy the "genuine" branded article, but others will take personal pride in buying the "same" product for less - and maybe even with some different or better features thrown in for free.
This might be a first step in fragmenting the market around a common Windows compatible "standard" offered by multiple vendors at competitive prices. Also, it could result in opening more people's eyes to the advantages of using non-Windows based systems to meet their individual needs. I imagine that the reality will be somewhere in the middle, and that this will be a good thing for both consumers and business.
My next sig will be ready soon, but friends can beat the rush!
To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows
Could you be more condescending?
~jeff
alright damnit, enough is enough.
> Walmart isn't really rooted in the technology industry
utter bullshit.
Guess who has the largest *private* database in the world. (and is the SOLE reason that NCR Teradata is still alive) Wal-Mart (with somewhere around 130TB in thier Topend system)
Guess who has the largest single IMAP install in the world? Wal-Mart Guess who is (or was) Dell's Largest customer...Wal-Mart
Guess who employees over 1400 in house (not contractors) programmers (in a single location (ok, you can split hairs with SMWDC/DMGTC being seperate)...Wal-Mart
Guess which retail chain bet the bank on EDI before the next 6 largest guys even thought of it...Wal-Mart
With over 2500 stores and a sub 2 second transaction time to *all of them* , how the heck did you think they were *NOT* a technology based company!?
That crap about Wally world not being a technology company is baloney. Sam Walton bet the bank on computer technology when his rivals were still using paper invoices.
I would note that the decision to sell Lindows prob has nothing to do with Wal-Mart as a company, but a lot to do with what it's Buyers and Marketing dept think will sell. (To those who have never worked in the corporate side of retail, Buyers are the guys/gals who buy the things the company then sells to it's customers, they typically work out the deals, many retail firms use independant buyers, but Wally world (and a few, very few) other companies do it all in house)).
If someone really wants to know why they are selling Lindows, then ship off a message to president@wal-mart.com, The are quite good about responding, though I'm not sure what their answer will be.
About the crack about rednecks buying Lindows...what do you think the average demographic of a Wally world online customer is? I'm willing to bet it's not ma and pa kettle in podunk Arkansas.
--Tadghe, former WalMartian.
Bugs Bunny was right.
Bart: Don't be a sap dad. These are just crappy knock-offs.
Homer: I know a genuine 'Panaphonics' when I see one. And look, there's 'Magnet Box' and 'Sorny'!
Salesman: [walking up] Listen, I'm not going to lie to you. Those are all superior machines. But if you like to watch your TV, and I mean _really_ watch it, you want the Carnivale'. [shows Homer and Bart a TV very similar to their old one] It features two-pronged wall plug, pre-molded hand grip well, durable outer casing to prevent fallapart...]
Homer: Sold. You wrap it up, I'll start bringing in the pennies.
[3F11] Scenes from the Class Struggle in Springfield
I think the most interesting part of this is that now other stores selling computers will have to find ways of competing with these insanely low priced computers, and I think the first thing they'll do is throw out Windows. Although alot of people will disagree, I think ESR had a good point when he said that microsoft would be doomed when the cost of PC hardware dropped below that of Windows, and we're almost at that point already.
Except that poor "culturally deprived" whites aren't the oppressors. They're just as much disenfranchised "victims" as poor "culturally different" [sic] blacks.
/individual/ without making one a racist.
Frankly, the usage of "redneck" in this case is classically racist! The author has no knowledge whatsoever of the individuals purchasing these computers, and is making broad generalizations as to what types of people shop at Walmart. (I suppose the "niggers" shop at K-Mart, eh?)
It would be more appropriate and acceptable to yell "Fucking goddamned nigger!" at a baggy-pants black youth crossing on a green light. Or if it was a dumpy white lady, "You fucking fat-ass bitch!" Or an Asian, "Me rikey you go faster, cross walk long time!!"
Cultural hot-words can be used to express displeasure with an
However, the article summary's use of "redneck" lambasts the very market most Linux zealots pretend to want to conquer -- the common working man. And it appears it was done merely as a way to demean other people via the use of a loophole in politically correct dogma.
heehheeh lomaolf!!!!
#19845
If you find a place where you can get a Mac with OS X for $300, let me know, because I would love to have one to play with.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
"They just say the the OS runs MOST Windows programs."
The same is true of 'genuine' Windows.
But I do wonder how well Lindows does when you stick a random Win32 app. CD in. My experience with WINE (up to a few months ago) has been generally bad.
so, remember folks:
Buying from local merchant: Good.
Buying from non-local stone-age tribesmen: Good. No, wait, bad! No, wait, good!
Buying at Giant Swedish Superstore: Good.
Buying from Large Arkansas Superstore: Bad.
Hey, if I move to Bentonville, can I still shop at Wal-mart?
The difference: Wal-mart is selling their computers for $299 and up. $299! In this way, Wal-mart is not competing with Apple at all, since a person considering a really inexpensive PC will most likely not be considering a $3000 Apple workstation.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Help fight continental drift.
What I'm curious about is the tech support issue. It seems to me that by offering a Lindows pre-installed PC, it's now in Wal*Mart's interest to see Lindows be as stable as possible and as compatable with Windows applications as possible.
Does anyone suppose they plan to help out Lindows development if, say, the next version of some popular Windows software doesn't work with Lindows? Now that would really impress me. (And then I'd think about buying one of these boxes.)
for those of you who dont know walmart is a company that spawned from arkansas. the same place who brought you bill clinton. while i'm sure many of you are enjoying yourselves making fun of the ``rednecks'', consider the following:
many of you shop there.
currently the waltons (son's and daughters of sam so to speak) have more money than gates and ellison combined.
all this was made by a redneck without a college education. hell i dont even think he had a highschool education.
it's nice to see that by getting educated and growing up in a civilized society you all (y'all if you like) have become tolerant understanding people forgoing prejudice towards your fellow human beings.
-- john
One little detail about that Duron (although it's probably not a big detail) is that they left out the floppy drive on that model.
With bootable CD-ROMs and networks not having a floppy is not a big problem, but for the first-timer this could be a big problem.
Oh yeah, Fry's is entering the $300 market soon...actually sub-$300. They will be putting out a Celeron 1GHz machine, preloaded with ThizLinux, whatever the fsck that is. They're just waiting on the shipment at this point. And this one *has* a floppy drive.
Actually it would be better if they all did preloads with Lycoris Linux but still, it is a good thing that Walmart has the guts to do this. So far, Microsoft hasn't complained. I think they realize that even an 800lb. Gorilla like MS has to pick their battles.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
One of the fundamental principles of software
develpment is that you can't find all the
sticky problems until you get real users
using the thing.
Consider Mozilla: progress was slow until
the 0.9.x milestones, then all of a sudden
it was good enough that a lot of users who
tried it liked it enough to start using it
as their regular browser, and whammo, the
bugs started dropping like flies, and it
shaped up incredibly in just a few weeks.
Same thing with Linux. Technical excellence
aside, it was nowhere near ready for the
typical end user until quite recently, but
as the user base spreads beyond developers
to end users, amazing strides are made in
its _usability_ for end users. There's a
breaking point somewhere, where enough
users adopt a piece of software that the
bugs show up and can be fixed. You don't
reach that point without early adopters.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
> now mechanics are a dime a dozen, and near the bottom rung of the social ladder, in most places.
This is not true.
One of my best friends in college made $50k right out of school, and was making a six figure salary at age 22
Though this is not the norm, it isn't bad for a two year degree. Mechanics earn a lot more money than the old days, partly because now you need to know what you're doing, but mostly because there is a shortage of mechanics to fill positions. Not exactly a dime a dozen.
Bullshit attitudes like yours towards mechanics are among the reasons why I am no longer a mechanic myself. Yes, there are some weasels out there, but saying that mechanics are rednecks, is like saying that all programmers are pizza faced, mountain dew drinking, slobs who don't shower. Take a moment to step off your elite pedestal and try becoming informed.
I live in a redneck/hick town. I don't think of myself as better than my neighbors. I have sold computers to several of them, though. All of them want nothing more than to run an old version of Quicken to manage the books for the dairy, Word Perfect 6.0 to type letters to their grand kids, and Printshop to make birthday cards. There were a few exceptions: some of them had kids who wanted to play Star Craft and Half-Life, and one person needed to run the latest QuickBooks to handle payroll for his construction business. Most people can do anything they already do in Windows, with Linux.
The problem for me, however, was that I was 16/17 at the time I was selling these computers, living at home. I got all my referrals from my mom, since she knew the people. She has seen me coding in a Linux console, and after seeing that, started spreading anti-Linux FUD to all the people she was referring to me ("He'll build you a great computer, but he'll try to put Linux on it -- don't let him do that."). I found this out when people started specifically asking NOT to have Linux on their machines (though I've never sold a Linux machine to anyone). Star Craft and Half-Life both run under WineX.
What's the point of this rambling? If you are young and live at home, make sure your parents don't spread Linux FUD, and if you are older, make sure your wife doesn't spread Linux FUD, and if you're old and single, well, get out more. But the real moral of the story is: most people don't need Windows, or even the apps they're used to. Give them a few of their staple apps, such as Star Craft, Quicken, Word, and then fill in the rest with Open Source software, and slowly convert them away from their staple apps (and convert game programmers away from their staple OS). This is exactly what Lindows is doing.
Some people think Lindows will take over Linux and become a Linux monopoly, others think Lindows will just act as the gateway into a new world of software. Whatever. See above for the point of this disjointed, redundant rambling.
A solution to the problem with music today
who thinks is actually is Windows
Apologies, I shouldn't have said "Genuine Windows", I should have said "Genuine Microsoft Windows".
This issue has been decided in court. Microsoft Windows is a trademark of Microsoft. Windows is a generic term. Lindows is a trademark of... ummm... someone else (chuckle).
If a salesman or anyone else indicates that Lindows is Microsoft Windows then they are at fault. Complain to the store. Get a refund. Sue them if need be. It is not Lindow's responsibility.
P.S.
impressed if Lindows actually ran MOST Windows software
Yes, exactly what it does/doesn't run is an interesting question.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Perhaps Slashdot should interview the president of Wal-Mart.
JET Program: see Japan, meet intere
It's sort of depressing to see just how elitist/bourgeois/classist many of these comments are, especially those concerning these so-called "rednecks" who shop at Wal-Mart. I mean, isn't one of the "great things" about Linux, and GNU in general, the ideal that operating systems, software and information in general "want to be free"? Or that people shouldn't have to pay $100-400+ for a modern operating system? Or that Linux and Open Source software is revolutionary, capable of breaking the grasp that Microsoft holds over the CONSUMER market? So now you have Wal-Mart, a major retailer, offering complete machines with an OS and a number of useful applications at a price that is lower than the MSRP for the full version of Windows XP Pro. And rather than cheering about how this could potentially be a major opportunity for a Linux distribution to make signficant inroads with the CONSUMER market (remember the revolution?), many respondents have sought to portray the people who will purchase these systems as ignorant, foolish, uneducated, and/or intellectually inferior. Wow, what happened to all the populist ideals above?
Remember when Mexico was supposed to switch over to Linux, or something like that, and they screwed it up. Now MS uses this as a reason to not use Open Source Software, it fails implementation. Of course, all software that is poorly implemented will fail, but that's not the software's fault.
Now that Walmart is selling these Lindows machines I see a similar problem. Joe User buys a computer, but he can't run half the apps his friend can run, like games. He takes the computer back to Walmart, gets his money back and swears the Lindows sucks. So now in his mind Lindows sucks and anything that sounds like Lindows (i.e. Linux) sucks too. After a couple of months Walmart will get tired of giving people their money back and stop selling computers with Lindows installed. Now it's not just a failure on Walmart, but on Lindows which in turn is a failure for Linux and the Open Source community.
Hence MS now has more fuel for their fud campaigns. I don't see this as a winning situation for Linux or OSS.
Most Americans shop at Walmart and they will sell a lot of these computers. This really looks bad to me, really bad.
On the other hand, I don't really care if Linux "beats" MS. I like my Debian whether Joe Shmoe does or not.
thank you!
"Redneck" is a race-blind slur.
I went to middle school with white, black, and hispanic rednecks. and i'm glad i no longer have to deal with any of them.
"Cracker" or "White Trash" is the slur you're looking for.
however the difference between those and "nigger" is nigger implies nothing about culture or economic standing. it's purely racist. racists might call Colin Powell or Halle Berry niggers, but you wouldn't call a rich promonent white person White Trash or a Redneck.
cultural slurs, while still offensive, bother me less than outright racial slurs.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
I just cannot believe that you feel Walmart is doing this to "take a stab at selling Lindows computers." I'll tell you what this is about:
The almighty dollar.
Walmart does not care about Linux geeks clutching their little stuffed penguins and waving their "Open Source" flags. They do not care about someone who walks into a store to tell the tech department that they should sell machines with Linux on it. They care about money. They have always cared about money, and they always will care about money. They are the most efficient corporation in the whole world, and they are efficient because it makes money. Anyone who thinks that Walmart's #1 priority is not about money needs to take some courses in Economics, wake up, and smell the capitalism.
I've been working in the backstock rooms of Walmarts for three years now, and I've overheard the managers on quite a few occasions. Walmart demands cheap prices from their distributors. They're the #1 retailer in the US, so they have the power to do so. They lure distributors into their system by offering to sell thier product, then stab them in the back a year or two later and demand the product be cheaper, or they'll find someone else. This leads product manufacturers to use overseas labor and/or lower the quality of the product, all to stay buddies with Walmart. When you see the adds of Walmart lowering their prices, they can do so because its not their company that takes a hit in profits...it's the manufacturers that do.
I'm sure Walmart did the same thing with this Microtel company when they asked for computers. When Microtel was put under the gun to make a cheaper computer, I'm sure they cut every single corner. Just look at it from a $$$ perspective..."Hey Walmart, we got this OS that looks like Windows, runs like Windows, and can run %90 of Windows software, but we can put it on every machine for absolutely no charge!"...Walmart will say yes, because they now have a "Windows-ish" computer that sells for $100 less than the competition.
And for those of you who say that there might be a high-return rate? Walmart doesn't care. If people return their computers, all Walmart has to do is box it up and ship it back to Microtel. The only loss that they take is paying some 16-year old $2 to take the time to box it back up and stick it on a pallet. It's certainly worth their time, considering that these computers are %10-%20 cheaper than the competition. If it fails, Walmart returns the computers, Walmart dumps Microtel and finds another manufacturer, and Microtel goes belly-up, and Walmart leaves unscathed. If it's a success, Walmart gets the credit.
Wake up and smell the dollar bills.