Walmart Ships PCs with Lindows OS

Tonetheman writes "Walmart is now shipping low cost PC's with Lindows pre-installed. And yes I know there was a review earlier on Slashdot about installing Linux on one of these bad boys. This is different and much more exciting. To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows..." There's a Newsforge story too. Hopefully Lindows makes a good impression.

Comments

Rage against the conformity.

[Big Dogs Cock]

Trolling in the name of
Some of those that boot Suse
Are the same that bought XP
Some of those that boot Suse
Are the same that bought XP
Trolling in the name of
And now you run what they told you
And now you run what they told you
And now you run what they told you

95 is justified for running the games that you didn't buy
95 is justified for running the games that you didn't buy
Some of those that boot Suse
Are the same that bought XP
Some of those that boot Suse
Are the same that bought XP

And you run what they told you
Now your under control
And you run what they told you
Now your under control
And you run what they told you
Come on!

Fuck you I wont run what you tell me
Fuck you I wont run what you tell me
Fuck you I wont run what you tell me
Fuck you I wont run what you tell me
Motherfucker

Haha.....

[cp4]

Legions of rednecks killed me!

You know you're a redneck if: you run Lindows on a WalMart PC.

Re:Haha.....

[Quinn]

Except that poor "culturally deprived" whites aren't the oppressors. They're just as much disenfranchised "victims" as poor "culturally different" [sic] blacks.

Frankly, the usage of "redneck" in this case is classically racist! The author has no knowledge whatsoever of the individuals purchasing these computers, and is making broad generalizations as to what types of people shop at Walmart. (I suppose the "niggers" shop at K-Mart, eh?)

It would be more appropriate and acceptable to yell "Fucking goddamned nigger!" at a baggy-pants black youth crossing on a green light. Or if it was a dumpy white lady, "You fucking fat-ass bitch!" Or an Asian, "Me rikey you go faster, cross walk long time!!"

Cultural hot-words can be used to express displeasure with an /individual/ without making one a racist.

However, the article summary's use of "redneck" lambasts the very market most Linux zealots pretend to want to conquer -- the common working man. And it appears it was done merely as a way to demean other people via the use of a loophole in politically correct dogma.

heehheeh lomaolf!!!!

Re:Haha.....

[geekoid]

I know many black and asian rednecks, so its not really race related. Granted it is a stereotype of wal-mart shoppers.

Re:Haha.....

[colmore]

thank you!

"Redneck" is a race-blind slur.

I went to middle school with white, black, and hispanic rednecks. and i'm glad i no longer have to deal with any of them.

"Cracker" or "White Trash" is the slur you're looking for.

however the difference between those and "nigger" is nigger implies nothing about culture or economic standing. it's purely racist. racists might call Colin Powell or Halle Berry niggers, but you wouldn't call a rich promonent white person White Trash or a Redneck.

cultural slurs, while still offensive, bother me less than outright racial slurs.

Re:Haha.....

[Reziac]

Actually, the black people (middle-class working folks) that I know use "nigger" to mean a person (usually black, but can be white or other) who remains *deliberately* ignorant or low-class despite having opportunity to better themselves. So in this common usage it DOES have a meaning relevant to class AND economic standing, very closely akin to "white trash", and has nothing at all to do with racism.

And if you don't think rich/prominent whites sometimes get called White Trash or Rednecks, you must not have been around during the first Clinton presidential campaign.

-1 Offtopic, -1, Flamebait, -1 Troll. Did I miss any of the mods from pissed-off idealists?? :)

Windows or Lindows

[91degrees]

Why would people want to use a kludged together OS with loads of confusing legacy included for backwards compatibility and a cryptic API anyway?

Re:Windows or Lindows

[larry bagina]

Because the penguin is so cute?

Re:Windows or Lindows

[SomeoneGotMyNick]

I pre-apologize for any stereotypical statements I make here.

The typical 'Redneck' is assumed to not be able to afford a PC. I guess this puts it in their price range.
In turn, the 'Redneck' enhances their intelligent thoughts by using these and starts using them PCs in their Roadkill Cafe' business ventures.
MS and the BSA tries to come in and 'audit' their software......

How fast do you think the shotguns would come out (owners AND patrons) telling MS/BSA to '...back off Billy!'

The 'Rednecks' WILL stand up for themselves, guaranteed.

Re:Windows or Lindows

[NanoGator]

Actually, the most redneckian person I know was into building computers and stuff. I guess he thought it wasn't much different than working on cars. He even kept it on the front yard with the case open, sitting on a cinder block. Looked kinda artistic with the yellow grass neatly outlining it.

Re:Windows or Lindows

[NanoGator]

"Aside from ESD precautions there's no reason the average person shouldn't be able to slap together a working system. "

Not sure what ESD is (jet lagged, brain no function) heh. My comment ended up being kinda sarcastic, but I am serious that a redneck friend of mine got into building computers. I think the only real requirement to building a machine is that you have to have an interest in doing so.

Re:Windows or Lindows

[colmore]

Perhaps the majority of slashdot has never encountered the Redneck computer culture.

But riddle me this, Batman, who buys neon case mods? Why the very same people who buy neon pickup truck mods. There is an entire sub Mason-Dixon youth culture dedicated to building computers, and finding the most badass Winamp pluggins to watch while stoned on cheap weed.

Evidence B: Deerhunter and it's ilk routinely sell in far greater volume than almost all "real" computer games. In fact, I think only the Sims sells better.

So yes, people will buy these wallmart PCs, and install pirated copies of XP on them.

Re:Windows or Lindows

[NanoGator]

jet lag also jetlag (jtlg)

n. A temporary disruption of bodily rhythms caused by high-speed travel across several time zones typically in a jet aircraft.jet-lagged adj.


jet lag

n : fatigue and sleep disturbance resulting from disruption of
the body's normal circadian rhythm as a result of jet
travel

Re:Windows or Lindows

[unitron]

"Why would people want to use a kludged together OS with loads of confusing legacy included for backwards compatibility and a cryptic API anyway?"

It's both amazing and frightening how many of those who replied don't realise that you were talking about MS Windows.

Weren't you?

L/Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, that's gonna cause confusion with tech support.

"What OS are you using?"
"Lindows"
"Windows?"
"Yeah, Lindows"

If there is hope, it lies in the proles

[ematic]

Seems like the wal-mart grade rednecks will be the frontrunners of the linux desktop revolution. Bet you didn't see that coming!

Re:If there is hope, it lies in the proles

[tid242]

To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows...

they'd better put the 'Redneck' language option back into their distro's, ever since RH rm'd it things just haven't been the same around here *sigh*..

-tid242

damn i need a better sig :(

Re:If there is hope, it lies in the proles

[wils0n]

Well, most rednecks don't have an IT dept. to convince..

Re:If there is hope, it lies in the proles

[itsjpr]

Actually, this is not a surprise. Think of stock car racing. It grew out of average folks with limited budgets buying commodity hardware and making it scream with a little tinkering. Today, NASCAR racing is big buisness and very popular with the Wal-Mart crowd. They are gifted with the hacker mentality.

Wal-Mart is just making it possible for the next generation of gear heads to soup up the next generation of hardware.

Think of this. So what if the hardware isn't on the high end. So what if all their Windows games aren't supported. I'd like to see people out there (eg. high school/trade school shop teachers/LUGs) showing people how to combine the power of their systems or tweak the shit out of them. Heck at $300 some folks would be willing risk gluing a refrigerator to their CPU!

The fun will come from racing the tweaked-out systems, bringing them together to render awesome graphics, or participating in multi-player games.

This is a HUGE opportunity to foster LUGs in places other than the "big city".

Good Luck.

Re:If there is hope, it lies in the proles

[foniksonik]

I'm thinking you should start a branch of Lindows and title it 'RedNeck' just to piss off RedHat while simultaneously pissing of Microsoft.

hm....

[daf00masta]

Now I wonder how long it'll take for M$ to launch OE for Lindows, and carry all the virii along...FUN FUN FUN Or better yet, they try to sue Walmart for trying to bully out Microsoft products off the shelves by using anti-competitive tactics....

Screenshots Link

[simetra]

http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_screenshot s.php

Call me crazy, but...

[Elledan]

I'm of the opinion that people (this includes everyone) should be made aware of the fact that there are different OSs, of which only a few can run the software written for another OS. With this rudimentary knowledge, the world would become a much more pleasant place to live in if you happen to work at a helldesk. Note: the typo was intentional.

Re:Call me crazy, but...

[MAXOMENOS]

Here's one way to explain this to a stereotypical (!!!!) redneck:

Customer: $299? That's pretty cheap. It come with Windows?
Salesman: No sir, it comes with Linux. It's a different operating system.
Customer: Huh?
Salesman: Think of Windows like a thirty-eight and Linux like a nine millimeter. Same size bullet, they both do the job, but you wouldn't put thirty-eight rounds in a nine millimeter or vice versa. But there's plenty of ammo for both.
Customer: Oh, so it can do all the same stuff?
Salesman: Yep, lemme show you...

(It may actually be more of a disservice to use Lindows than to use another Linux distribution, such as Mandrake or Red Hat, for the purposes of this explanation.)

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[T.Monk]

well, it's beta, and they want the windows demographic, so it would follow that they would ship while still in beta... hey, if MS does it, it's gotta be right, eh?

Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[dlur]

A company as large as Walmart might be just big enough and have enough bargain-basement customers to make this fly. And at $299 for the Duron 850mhz model, who can't afford one of these.

One problem I can see is that the hardware in these systems might(and probably is) of sub-par level. Instability issues caused by poor hardware quality may undermine the "frugal" consumer's viewpoint of the *nix OS enviroment. Not to mention that they'll have a hard time finding tech support locally considering that most tech shops are generally geared towards MS products and not Linux.

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Linux tends to run really well on cheap shitty hardware. Hell, I've had a motherboard which would not run windows setup no matter what (no kidding - kept crashing with a random error, problem went away with mobo replaced). Linux ran rock-solid on the thing. If it's supported, it will be way more solid than any windows version (including win2k, nt, xp, whatever - those crash only a little less often than 9x).

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[lynx_user_abroad]

This is a major step up from the "os-less" PC they were selling before, but still a step in the right direction.

The hardware may be crud, but if it is, drag it down the block to WalMart and get a replacement box. And now that it has an OS included, you can prove that the hardware is broke.

This is not to say "Behold WalMart, our savior", but rather to say "Now that Microsoft has some serious threat to worry about, we may be able to catch our breath before heading back into the arena..."

And at $300 bucks, assembled, with warranty, it practically meets my definition for "buy it for the parts".

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[MrResistor]

In every comparison I've seen Linux has proven to be more tollerant of hardware faults that Windows. My personal experience is that I can take a stick of RAM with a bad address that crashes Win2k about every hour, and use it without issue under Linux thanks to memtest86 and badram. Granted, that's fairly annecdotal, but certainly something to think about.

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[psycht]

$299 is very nice.. but really they should add in a monitor and make it a whole package deal.

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[spotter]

there are 2 things to note about this.

1) you are using a patch that is not in the mainline kernel (and I'm not sure if its in any vendor kernel, as I roll my own I can't say)

2) you also know how to use memtest86 to set up the badram options correctly. Most people dont.

So yes, while linux can be more tolerant of hardware faults than windows, in general its harder on the harder than win9x. WinNT based OS's from my experience are at least just as hard on the hardware so will expose the same faults that Linux will, and sometimes more, see AGP, AMD's MP chipset on the original MP motherboards using nvidia cards or Radeons, very susceptible to crashes on 2K/XP till they worked around it, didn't have this problem in linux with my Radeon as the XFree driver wasn't as "advanced" so didn't stress the system much.

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[doorbot.com]

One problem I can see is that the hardware in these systems might(and probably is) of sub-par level. Instability issues caused by poor hardware quality may undermine the "frugal" consumer's viewpoint of the *nix OS enviroment.

You may be right. However, I would argue that people buying this PC are either first timers (and thus don't know the difference) or they're ex-Windows users who want to replace their aging PC. In either case, a Linux-based solution will knock the socks off of em.

If they're new to computers, someone they know probably has one and that's why they bought one for themselves. But their pals probably don't have the latest MS OS, and even if they did, it's probably running on the same hardware as these Walmart PCs. I have to give the advantage to the Lindows-based PC (with regards to dealing with cheapo hardware).

If they're replacing an old computer, they probably have a very old PC, perhaps early Pentium, and thus they probably run Windows 95 and crash 3 times an hour. Again, I have to give the advantage to the Lindows-based PC.

What no one's seemed to mention yet is that AMD has gotten a good deal out of this too, especially if this takes off. I also wonder who makes the various chipsets on the board (if it was SIS that'd be great).

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[hawk]

>One problem I can see is that the hardware in
>these systems might(and probably is) of sub-par
>level.

oh, come on. THis is *walmart* we're talking about. They'd *never* sell anything of other than the finest quality . . .

:(

hawk

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[DoctorFrog]

I disagree. What if you want to relace a broken PC, or replace a non-broken but outdated one? Why force the customer to buy a new monitor when they already have one? If it's a first-time purchase, you can buy a cheapo ($100-odd) monitor in Wal-Mart at the same time, or shell out a bit more to buy yourself a nicer one.

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[nehril]

there are potentially bad consequences to this. consider:

- lUser buys a Lindows PC from walmart

- lUser cannot figure out how to cut and paste from the Mozilla web browser to Abiword (a harsh welcome to Xwindows indeed). Worse, he never did figure out that to print he had to type "ghostview - | lpr -Pepson277 /dev/usb0" into every single app's preferences.

- lUser realizes that the "screen is ugly" (i.e. fonts suck)

- lUser cannot get onto The AOL.

- of 100,000 units sold, 70,000 get returned.

- walmart takes a bath. "Linux Sucks" is now "proven" to all the business execs with buying power. Nothing scares the CFO like "losing money."

- Linux returns to it's ashes, the supergeek community.

linux may not be ready for this, folks.

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[MrResistor]

As I said, the comparisons I've seen tell a different story; that Linux is better able to keep running in the face of hardware failure than WinNT. I'm one of those lucky few who never seem to have hardware fail, though, so I don't have any personal experience in that regard. All the bad hardware I've had was bad when I got it, and that one stick of RAM is the only one I haven't sent back (because it was sitting on my shelf for to long before I tested it. D'oh!)

I agree with your points about my badram example, but the only reason I included it was to illustrate the fact that with Linux it is sometimes possible to add kernel patches, etc, in order to work around hardware faults, while that option isn't available in Win2k (or any other Windows, to my knowledge). I see your AGP issue as being different, since that was a hardware conflict inherent to that particular combination of hardware, not a piece of hardware that failed.

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[MrResistor]

I can't imagine what I would do with that much RAM, but I might be interested if the price is right. What type of RAM is it?

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[FeeDBaCK]

Actually... Lindows has some proprietary components that take care of all of your listed "problems". It only uses KDE, so there is no worry about KDE/Gnome compatability problems. Printing is done via CUPS and a proprietary printer setup to make it more like Windows. Fonts are TrueType (same as Windows). AOL is a supported application. MS Office works.

So what was your arguement? Maybe you should *try* Lindows before bashing it.

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[IamTheRealMike]

- lUser cannot figure out how to cut and paste from the Mozilla web browser to Abiword (a harsh welcome to Xwindows indeed).

The clipboard issues have been fully resolved with KDE3, and that was the only thing that caused problems in the first place. All the major apps are now compliant with the standards, the only clipboard problems are with old installations. Linux is developing fast, can we please drop the now-dead clipboard thing?

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[Eimi Metamorphoumai]

My point, which you seem to be ignoring, is that Walmart users don't care about what happens under the hood, they just care that it works the way they expect it to. And my real point is IT DOES WORK THE WAY THEY EXPECT IT TO. Really. Try it yourself. Select, control-c, switch apps, control-v. There are usability things to complain about in Linux, but that isn't one of them.

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[Dr. Evil]

I'm going along with the predicitons of the original post. Think of the number of technical support calls to various software companies which will end with "Oh my god!, you're running Lindows! I can't begin to tell you how unsupported you are!", along with small local shops being completely unable to provide support for software, ISPs trying to add new hardware like PCI DSL modems, and think of all the USB accessories these people are going to be screaming about. Printing alone should be hell.

"I bought my Kodak camera/MP3 player/Scanner/Winprinter, plugged it in, and it didn't ask me for the CD. When I tried to install the drivers, the application crashed"

Wow is this going to flop. It will be huge for the techies, but that's all.

Re:Walmart is big enough to make this fly

[WNight]

Shops won't support this? Heh. You don't understand market forces.

I worked for a while at a shop that did primarily windows support. Nobody there liked MS or anything, but we did what people called and asked us to do. Some Mac stuff, some hardware problems for people who were running BeOS or Linux. Even some Amiga problems. We hardly ever turned anyone away.

You think that if Walmart starts selling something in volume that shops won't start supporting it?

Not bloody likely. They'll buy one of the systems, get used to it, and list it as another system they proudly support.

Will games be tested with wine now?

[bluGill]

AFAIK, Lindows is based on wine. Wal-Mart customers will tend to buy a lot of games for their computer. Sounds to me like manufactures will soon find it a requirement to test their games with Lindows, and thus they will be wine compatable too.

Not as good as native linux games, but a close second. If nothing else this could drive some real compitition to microsoft!

If only it works... I'm not holding my breath yet.

Re:Will games be tested with wine now?

[morgajel]

wtf are you talking about?! linux can run LOTS of games! gnibbles, xbill, majhong, xmine, nethack, etc....

what? you want 3d games?

nononono, remember- these are the same people who made FREECELL and SOLITAIRE popular. Once they go to the games section and see there are more than solitaire, freecell, mines, and hearts, they're heads will explode.

no need for 3d:)

Re:Will games be tested with wine now?

[GungaDan]

"Lindows is based on wine."

Is this post designed to further confuse the redneck masses, who also buy their wine at Walmart?

Re:Will games be tested with wine now?

[Quarters]

Games will be tested against something if it comprises a significant portion of the market for the game.

Selling these machines online only, and at Wal*Mart.com to boot, will not make them a significant portion of any game's market.

Re:Will games be tested with wine now?

[Jbrecken]

Not having all those really cool 3D games might be a nice selling point if parents can think they're getting their kids a serious computer, not just a video game machine.

Re:Will games be tested with wine now?

[surfcow]

If they are selling it at Walmart, it's probably based on beer.

(Sigh... just can't resist.)

=brian

Re:Will games be tested with wine now?

[Lumpy]

3d games???

how about Q3,Q2,Q1,Wolfinstine3d,UT,SOF,heavy gearII,terminus.. i can go on for a while.

dont give me shit that there are no games for linux (neverwinter nights) just because the overhyped windows based crack of the week isnt on linux doesnt mean it doesn't have games.

Hey, super gamer.. 90% of the populace doesnt play/buy your beloved games until the hit the discount bin. and by then someone has it working under linux+wine...

and I apologize for my profanity.. but It's friday and I am sick of people that pull FUD like this out of their butts and then get modded up.

Linux has games, linux has LOTS of games.

Re:Will games be tested with wine now?

[zCyl]

Is this post designed to further confuse the redneck masses, who also buy their wine at Walmart?

Oh my... The frag rates are going to be disasterous once manufacturers start labelling games, "Works with wine."

Re:Will games be tested with wine now?

[morgajel]

that wasn't sarcasm, I was serious.
People love simple games- something linux has QUITE a few of.79 on the computer I'm currently sitting at from just installing KDE, GNOME, and BSD game packs.
I've spent hours playing mahjongg, same gnome, and XJewel.
I can't play 1st person shooters because they make me puke. my girlfriend is the same way, and so are her parents.

Shall we also mention Freeciv? I can get her addicted to that for hours on end.

BTW, I plan on getting neverwinter nights as well. I'm a BG2 fan, so I look forward to this.
drop the seething rage long enough to see that I agree with you.

Windows v. Lindows

[Rinisari]

Redneck just got a computer...
1997: I got Winders Ninedy Eight!
2000: I got Winders Doodousand!
2001: I got Winders EckPee!
2002: I got Linders? What da hell is Linders?

"legions of rednecks?"

[macsox]

so, first of all, nice stereotype. i guess all the fat, dateless, acne-scarred men on this site need something to chuckle about between visiting sites analyzing spock's deepest thoughts and pron.

and second of all, why would you be so excited about these legions of rednecks using lindows? does nobody here see that computers today are the same as automobiles in the 50s and 60s -- that, back then, it was an elite group of youngsters that really got into the maintenance of and differences between various machines. now mechanics are a dime a dozen, and near the bottom rung of the social ladder, in most places. indeed, they are rednecks. santayana would know what warning to give.

Re:"legions of rednecks?"

[billnapier]

Nice Stereotype? Have you ever been to Walmart?

Re:"legions of rednecks?"

[@madeus]

fat, dateless, acne-scarred men

I resent that!...I don't have acne scars, ha!

Don't think the 'mechanic' analogy holds up though.

The types of people who where Engineers who designed cars in the 50's are still designing cars and getting good paychecks of it (not as good as management, but still significantly above the national average).

The types of young kids who simply goofed around with the cars were never on much money, they are akin to script kiddies and warez doodz who don't make any money now.

Real Engineers are still Engineers and are as such worth money no matter what industry they are in (Automotive, Aerospace, Telecomunications, Computing).

There is a difference between being able to fix or tinker with a car (or computer) and knowing how to design a car (or a computer). 'Mechanics' and 'Engineers' are not the same thing.

People who write software, or maintain corporate networks or computing faclilites are in a whole different world for a guy who can mearly 'build his own PC' or 'install Linux'.

When red necks and trailer trash start writing their own software at home, and parking rusty PC's out side their front door I'll get worried.

Re:"legions of rednecks?"

[Col. Panic]

mechanic==hardware tech - legions, indeed

engineer==engineer - legions? bottom rung?

Re:"legions of rednecks?"

[brad3378]

&gt now mechanics are a dime a dozen, and near the bottom rung of the social ladder, in most places.

This is not true.
One of my best friends in college made $50k right out of school, and was making a six figure salary at age 22

Though this is not the norm, it isn't bad for a two year degree. Mechanics earn a lot more money than the old days, partly because now you need to know what you're doing, but mostly because there is a shortage of mechanics to fill positions. Not exactly a dime a dozen.

Bullshit attitudes like yours towards mechanics are among the reasons why I am no longer a mechanic myself. Yes, there are some weasels out there, but saying that mechanics are rednecks, is like saying that all programmers are pizza faced, mountain dew drinking, slobs who don't shower. Take a moment to step off your elite pedestal and try becoming informed.

Re:"legions of rednecks?"

[tshoppa]

back then, it was an elite group of youngsters that really got into the maintenance of and differences between various machines. now mechanics are a dime a dozen, and near the bottom rung of the social ladder, in most places.

That's a little unfair. A certified auto mechanic can pull down $70K to $90K without much problem in most markets. Now while that isn't as much as incompetent Java programmers were making last year, it's not a bad living and there's good job security.

To get a good mechanics certification requires a lot of dedication and hard work. Not necessarily a lot of brains, but it doesn't hurt to have 'em.

Re:"legions of rednecks?"

[Catbeller]

fat, dateless, acne-scarred white suburban twentysomethingmen, thank you very much, and we analyze Buffy's universe, not Star Trek (so last decade).

Re:"legions of rednecks?"

[@madeus]

Not true, dyslexia is very common in engineers, even writers suffer from it, like Scott Adams.

Despite some excellent education, I'll never be able to spell correctly. This has no impact on my technical skill or employability, or my ability to get paid a high wage packet.

However, explaining to people who don't know what dyslexia is, does take up lots of time as is *extremely* frustraiting. But you wouldn't know about that. (Ever tried spell checking EVERY SINGLE WORD you type or write?)

Rather than hoping

[Sawbones]

Is there any kind of polling or feedback - especially any whos results are public - to see what customers think about this? I'm certain if there is both sides it will spin it to their hearts content, it would be interesting to take a look at the raw numbers (so many customer support calls per unit sold, so many returns) and how they compare with both bare systems and windows pre-installed systems.

It'll never happen of course, but it would be nice.

Them rednecks is gona be pissed.

[Kenja]

Cousin Cletus is gona blow a gasket if Deer Hunter wont run on these things.

Not easy enough...

[bilbobuggins]

after I first read about Lindows here I downloaded the ISO and gave it shot.
To me, it didn't seem to be much more than KDE2 default with a pretty picture for the background. This is a problem. KDE default is NOT intuitive to Windows users.
I am currently helping a co-worker who is curious about Linux learn her way around on one of the spare machines here. Her first question (w/ RH 7.3 default) was that even after 10 minutes of poking at stuff she could not find the taskbar buried in with all that other stuff. That was just the beginning.

If you are going to cater to the Windows crowd you have to _really_ cater to them, not just change the icon theme.

Re:Not easy enough...

[uigrad_2000]

I am currently helping a co-worker who is curious about Linux learn her way around on one of the spare machines here. Her first question (w/ RH 7.3 default) was that even after 10 minutes of poking at stuff she could not find the taskbar buried in with all that other stuff. That was just the beginning.

<persuasionspeech option=prolinux>
Of course, that's user experience of someone who has probably been brought up using Windows. Of course, it won't be as easy to use for her.

I just built a dual-boot system for my Aunt, Uncle, and three cousins. None of them have ever touched a computer for more than an hour in their life.

I showed my cousins (girls ages 8, 10, and 12) how to use Windows, and then how to use linux. When I showed them how to browse from their home directory up two levels, and into the mounted windows partition, their first question was why they couldn't do the same thing from Windows! Youngsters are bright, and pick up these things very quickly!

Before long, they had found ways to change their background (in KDE), to a background from the /dos1/windows directory, on their own! They never hit the "taskbar hiccup" you're referring to.

The ten year old quickly decided that she was going to use gnome. Her reason? She liked using the "Cool: sunglasses" icon overlay for her documents, available with about 7 others by right clicking, and choosing properties on any icon. I didn't even know such stuff was in there!

When newbies grab onto linux over windows because of eye candy, you can tell that the balance is getting ready to shift. Will it be far enough for us to feel it? I think I can finally answer that with a "likely".
</persuasionspeech>

Re:Not easy enough...

[Arandir]

Can't find the taskbar? Geez. It's right there in plain site in the exact same location it is under Windows!

A) People who can't handle trivial modifications to their UI should stick with what they know and never switch.

B) Why the hell are we catering to the Windows crowd anyway? Is this a religion where we have to convert everyone before time runs out and the world explodes?

Re:Not easy enough...

[GutBomb]

xp operates exactly the same way. the colors are different and more candy looking but everything is still in the same place.

Re:Not easy enough...

[Reziac]

Eh? Coming from DOS/Windows, I found KDE to be the ONE part of my linux install that worked "intuitively" -- ie. if I clicked something, it behaved more or less as expected, or at least in some manner that I could figure out without having to RTFM.

Good for Walmart.

[ekephart]

Walmart is about the only US company I can think of that can actually take on MS. Walmart isn't really rooted in the technology industry so they don't stand to lose as much as say, Dell, from taking a stab at selling Lindows computers. I think most of us who know anything about MS know that the reason that Dell, HP, etc. etc... don't sell machines without Windows or even dual-boot machines with something other than two versions of Windows is because MS would revoke their license to sell Windows.

Screw the "legions of rednecks" idea, I believe there are many people who are curious enough about other OSes to get an extra computer, especially since they are supposed to be cheap, from Walmart just to poke around. Who knows once the average Joe realized that their are other options maybe he'll download some Debian images and never use Windows again.

Cheers to Walmart, good job guys.

Re:Good for Walmart.

[wytcld]

Walmart isn't really rooted in the technology industry

Walmart isn't identified with consumer technology, but in retailing they've long been known as the most aggressive embracers of tech. They were the first to force their suppliers to all install computer systems integrated with their own. It's a large part of how they've succeeded - the difference between Walmart and Kmart being that at Walmart what you went there for is in stock, because their computer connections with suppliers are really very effective and efficient.

So if they brought in any of their own tech people to decide whether to sell Lindows, they brought in folks quite capable of assessing it as technology.

On the other hand, Walmart will sell just about any cheap crap. When I lived in the mountains of North Carolina 20 years back, the Walmart there had a whole isle of bottles of different brands of "instant engine rebuilder" for your car. And this in an area where every teenage boy could really rebuild an engine. Who was buying this stuff then? The girls?
___

Re:Good for Walmart.

[SomeoneYouDontKnow]

I do agree with you, to a point. There are indeed quite a lot of users who don't have a clue as to how their computers work, and those people are going to use whatever they think is easiest. By and large, these are the same people who think AOL is the greatest Internet service available.

But I digress. I do believe that there are users out there who are fairly computer literate who haven't tried Linux for one reason or another. Windows is a known quantity, and it works for them. Is that wrong? Not at all. As long as they get their work done, then they're happy. From their point of view, they have no reason to switch. Why should they switch and have to learn a totally new OS? I'm not defending Windows or attacking Linux here; I'm simply pointing out the reasons people stay with Windows. If you want them to use something else, then you have to convince them that whatever you want them to try can do something better than what they're using, and that "something" has to be a task that's important to them. Can Linux run a word processor better than Windows? How about a Web browser or e-mail client? These users may be quite capable of learning a new OS, but unless you can give them a compelling reason to change, they won't.

Re:Good for Walmart.

[uigrad_2000]

The average computer user doesn't understand there is anything more to an OS than a blue desktop and a few icons. The average computer user finds zips hard enough to understand, let alone tarballs. The average computer can't figure out how to uninstall a piece of software unless there is an "uninstall" icon in that program's Star Menu group. The average user can't understand Window's directory stucture. The average user can't understand the difference between an .exe file and a .png.

I have evidence that such assumptions aren't always right. That evidence is me.

I played with computers a little as a kid, and never was interested in them. I learned DOS on a 386, and was turned off by how "klunky" it was.

As a college freshman, I was reintroduced to the MS world. Things had changed a lot. Now documents were represented by icons, just like the old macs had done. Still, I couldn't grasp the concepts needed to become a "power user", or whatever the term was for people that wrote the programs everyone else used.

My Junior year ('97), I transfered to the UofI, and was introduced to something called "Unix" for the first time, since student's email accounts were unix accounts. I met someone who had actually installed this thing called linux, about 8 months later.

Soon, I had learned a lot. I made perl scripts for simple file manipulation, and eventually came to install linux on my PC. I learned that the "I don't get along with computers" line was wrong. I just didn't get along with MS-centric interfaces.

I imagine there are many more people out there who are as confused as I was. They may look dumb, but it might just be that they are the type of people who prefer to see every application as a filter, that handles standard input, and generates standard output. That way, people who have different opinions about user interface can still use the same core programs!

Once this notion "clicks" with the general public, they may realize that the only thing holding them back before was an un-intuitive interface. And then you see a total blundering fool (like the 1997 me) turn around.

ignore that p.s.

[GnomeKing]

It would help if I read the FAQ before asking :D

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[bangpath]

You know, I've a couple of posts around /. lately talking about how great the /. community is..caring and helpful, but in the few posts I see here so far, all I see it snobbery. Just because someone lives near a Wal-Mart or goes to a Wal-Mart to buy stuff (even if it's a computer), doesn't make that person a hick or a red-neck.

Maybe you people should be glad that Wal-Mart is embracing something other than Windows, instead of being so damn smug. Get off your high horse and join the movement, or shut the f*** up.

That's all I have to say about that.

heh..

[jglow]

I think some of you are expressing concern because you don't want the mass public using anything but Windows. When everyone starts moving in on your elite OS, it no longer is the cool thing to use, so you must find something else to move on to....

Re:heh..

[Unknown Lamer]

I think some of you are expressing concern because you don't want the mass public using anything but Windows. When everyone starts moving in on your elite OS, it no longer is the cool thing to use, so you must find something else to move on to....

Maybe now people will start using the Hurd :)

Re:heh..

[Hollinger]

That's where MacOS X comes in. You know you want it.

Re:heh..

[mikethegeek]

"I think some of you are expressing concern because you don't want the mass public using anything but Windows. When everyone starts moving in on your elite OS, it no longer is the cool thing to use, so you must find something else to move on to...."

VERY well said!!

I see it this way... A corporation that I have long despised (there isn't a lot to like about Wal-Mart) is advancing something I truly believe in.

Why?

Because it's in their best interest. Wal-Mart can sell a FULLY functional PC based on a xNix OS for $299. There is NO WAY any MS machine can sell with the same hardware for the same price, unless MS starts giving away XP Home (and with how shitty it is, compared to XP Pro, which is actually decent, maybe they SHOULD), is not going to happen.

MS could get squeezed out in the middle. Linux is encroaching on the server market. This is partly because Linux has Unix roots, while MS approaches servers with a desktop mentality.

But, even for sake of argument, you call Linux and .NET server equals in quality and functionality, they are NOT equal in price.

Especially when you factor in the possibility that MS's private army, the BSA, will pick YOUR company for a stormtrooper raid.

Same thing on the low end. All the pundits tell us that the desktop PC as we know it today is an endangered species, as far as being a mass market item.

What will replace them? Something that more resembles a network/gaming thin client. In other words, a cheap, simplified, integrated PC.

Linux has the advantage that it cares not whether it runs on a 15 year old 386, or a brand new Itanium.

On such cheap machines, price of any component becomes a premium.

Linux: Cheap. Free or nearly free.
Windows: Adds at least $100 to the cost of the machine.

While price isnt' everything, it IS a compelling advantage for any product on the marketplace. IF these things sell, I wonder how long before IBM, Dell, HPaQ, Gateway, et all are FORCED to enter this market?

Windows, no matter WHAT price MS sells it for will always make a PC more expensive than to put Lindows or any other Linux on it.

So, what I see happening, is the possibility that Linux on the server plus Linux on the thin client MIGHT squeeze MS into a shrinking middle market.

Re:heh..

[fliplap]

Please take a moment to back up your statement that XP Home is "shitty" compared to XP Pro. What exactly makes it "shitty" and what makes Pro decent?

Re:heh..

[pjrc]

Linux has the advantage that it cares not whether it runs on a 15 year old 386, or a brand new Itanium.

The kernel perhaps, but the instance of Mozilla (0.9.7) that I am using right now while writing this message has allocated 62 megabytes of RAM, approx 50 megs is resident and 12 megs swapped out at this very moment.

Xfree86 has allocated 70 megabytes (26 megs swapped out). It is supporting Mozilla with 9 windows open, 7 gnome terminals, and a couple windows associated with "seyon" (an old terminal emulator I'm using with a serial port attached device).

The font server is using 15 megs, sawfish is using 7 megs, and a variety of gnome applets each show multiple megabytes of ram. Admittedly, some of this is shared memory for libraries, but the point remains...

The original slackware 1.x of '94 to '95 would run on an old 386, but today's KDE and Gnome based distros don't have a chance!

... and just to be picky, 15 years ago was the summer of 1987, before the 386 chip entered the market.

Re:heh..

[Lumpy]

of course we are afraid... we cant let this happen until HURD is finished.

Sheesh, get with the program people!

Re:heh..

[cybercuzco]

Yeah, like OS X, nobodys using that!

Re:heh..

[Reziac]

I have personally observed this phenomenon with other "cool" things (including source code projects), and you have a valid point. If everybody's doing it, it's not "special" or "unique" anymore, and those who want ivory-tower isolation will move on to some more-esoteric OS (whining all the way about how popularity "ruined" linux). To which I say, good riddance, no one needs the hassle of dealing with zealots and bigots. Linux itself will be the better for it.

(Watch this get modded "flamebait" :)

*omg* is it even out of beta already?

[Idaho]

Maybe I missed something...but last time I checked Lindows was still in beta stage, and with good reason too!

From my experience, they might be combining MS-like stability and security (running everything as root etc.) with Linux-like usability*, resulting in a horribly unusable OS - for which Linux will most probably get the blame by mainstream reporters. Ah well, we'll see.

Walmarts idea is probably something like this: they can save money on the computers this way, and they probably don't really care about what their customers use it for (do they have a reason to? Do they have to offer support etc.?), so that would explain things....

* usability for Joe Avg. User, e.g. consistent GUI's and stuff, you know what I mean...combining Wine and KDE and X will not get you a very consistent UI experience probably....

Re:*omg* is it even out of beta already?

[ocbwilg]

Walmarts idea is probably something like this: they can save money on the computers this way, and they probably don't really care about what their customers use it for (do they have a reason to? Do they have to offer support etc.?), so that would explain things....

I think that this is the real reason. They don't want to catch 10 kinds of hell from MS about selling "naked" PCs, so they throw Lindows on it instead. Net cost to them? Nothing. Bitching from MS about selling naked PCs? None. Net loss to a consumer who wants a naked PC in order to install a pirated copy of Windows? None. Bitching from MS about selling PCs with a competitor's product? None, if MS doesn't want to put a neon sign over their collective heads that reads "illegal use of monopoly power".

Besides, what likely is going to happen is that a user will get it home with Lindows, find out that it isn't Windows and it won't run whatever game they want to play, and then they'll come back to WallyWorld to buy a full copy of Windows XP. That's a bigger sale to WalMart and a bigger sale for MS. The only people who really have anything to lose from it are the Lindows folks who stand to gain a fair amount of negative press if they piss off consumers. Instead of looking like a company that is trying to bring Linux to the mainstream user with an easy-to-use compatible Windows-like interface they run the risk of looking like someone peddling a cheap knock-off that is trying to trade on Microsoft's name.

I hope they harden them.

[Irvu]

I can just imagine millions of these things selling widely. Then every single one being hacked by one group with the same root exploit. Think of the headlines "Wal-Mart facilitates domestic terrorism" "Internet Weakened by Linux manchines" etc. In some ways it's kind of what the ADTI people want.

The sum of all Lindows fears.

Re:I hope they harden them.

[dzym]

Doesn't Lindows just give you a XFree86 session running as uid(0)?

Re:I hope they harden them.

[Kris Warkentin]

When's the last time you saw X running as anything OTHER than root?

So Many Questions

[namespan]

Will this Redneck Linux outsell Redhat Linux? Will people remember there are other distributions?

Will pictures of a penguin urinating replace those travesties of Bill Watterson's creations that are now ubiquitous?

If it crashes a lot, will anyone notice?

Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot

[goldspider]

"To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows..."

It sounds funny, but just wait till they buy and try to install something made for Windows. Much to their surprise, it won't work, and they'll be calling up Wal-Mart asking them what kind of shinanigans they were trying to pull.

Now I haven't seen the packaging for these Lindows PCs, but I'd be willing to bet that some people COULD be confused into believing they're in fact buying a Windows PC. When they do discover their error, they'll think they were suckered into buying some kind of like a cheap knock-off (don't have the exact appropriate Simpsons quote).

If that happens, it's probably not the kind of PR that Lindows is looking for. Both Lindows and Wal-Mart have to be very careful to make sure the differences between Windows and Lindows are clearly explained.

Re:Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot

[BigBir3d]

You mean like running IE or Office or something?

Re:Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot

[the_rev_matt]

The site quite clearly at the top in the first paragraph says it does *not* come with Windows.

Microtel PCs with Lindows OS These computers do not ship with Microsoft Windows. They ship with an exciting new UNIX based Operating System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most Microsoft programs. These computer systems are a perfect low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft Windows.

Re:Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot

[Tim Macinta]

It sounds funny, but just wait till they buy and try to install something made for Windows. Much to their surprise, it won't work, and they'll be calling up Wal-Mart asking them what kind of shinanigans they were trying to pull.

Why would they assume it's a problem with Lindows and not with the program they are trying to install? Think about it this way - if they were running Windows, bought a copy of Photoshop, and unsuccessfully tried to install it, would they call Microsoft or Adobe? They would call Adobe, of course. Let's just hope they use the same logic with Lindows. If enough people do this with software that breaks under Wine, the companies publishing that software will eventually figure out that it's worth the extra day or two to debug their software under Wine before shipping it.

Re:Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot

[TheAwfulTruth]

Oh yeah! Wait till they call Adobe and claim that they installed Photoshop on a "Lindows" PC. How much tech support do you think adobe will give? Some thing along the lines of "I'm sorry sir, our products only work on Macintosh or Windows computers. I cannot give you any help. Please call your computer manufacturer."

And it's not a matter of one or two days to get something working on a 1/10 API/Library subset of windows. Many MANY programs will simply never work. And a lot of these are the types of programs that people buying these Lindows machines use. I.e. GAMES.

The only TINY bit of hope is that maybe after walmart sells 10,000,000 of these machines that there may be enough of a Linux base that more game programmers will port to native Linux. But that's a big if, if people can't run their apps they HAVE or can BUY now on the machine like Walmart says they can. (And as most people her point out. THat is simply not the case.)

Re:Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot

[Tim Macinta]

Oh yeah! Wait till they call Adobe and claim that they installed Photoshop on a "Lindows" PC.

And why would they mention this? This little piece of information will probably be something that the Adobe tech support might figure out after some painful q and a, but if the user knows enough to be this succinct in their problem description, they will likely already know what the problem is. My point was that it would be a pain in the neck for Adobe, not Walmart.

The only TINY bit of hope is that maybe after walmart sells 10,000,000 of these machines that there may be enough of a Linux base that more game programmers will port to native Linux.

I think there plenty of other scenerios where things turn out well. Take this one for example: consumers realize that Lindows + Open Office + The Gimp = $99 while Windows + MS Offfice + Photoshop > $1,000. Even if no games worked in Lindows (the worst case scenerio from your argument), there are still plenty of people who would be happy with a such an office productivity package.

Re:Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot

[frank_adrian314159]

It sounds funny, but just wait till they buy and try to install something made for Windows. Much to their surprise, it won't work, and they'll be calling up Wal-Mart asking them what kind of shinanigans they were trying to pull.

Actually, that's NOT what the customer will do - they'll try to call the software company that MADE the product, whose 800# is right in the user manual and ask why the software isn't running. This software manufacturer will have one of a few unpalatable choices...

He can tell the user to FO, causing user to return said package, causing WalMart to return said package , reducing revenues for himself.

He can blame WalMart for selling "ersatz" Windows, getting WalMart PO'ed at him about finking them out to the user, ultimately losing the distro channel.

They can get a copy of Lindows and rewrite their code so that it runs under Wine (maybe even contribute to Wine to get their software to run).

All of this happens because the little software fish (other than King Daddy MSFT, itself) ain't got the legs to run away from Big Wally's distro behemoth. They'll cave because the first law of business is "Cash is king" and Wally makes the cash for these guys.

Of course, all of this is predicated on the user's being able to get through to customer service in the first place...

Re:Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot

[ocbwilg]

Actually, that's NOT what the customer will do - they'll try to call the software company that MADE the product, whose 800# is right in the user manual and ask why the software isn't running.

It's obvious that you've been using Open Source for awhile. It's been years since I've seen a toll-free support line in a shrinkwrap software manual. There are plenty of 1-900 numbers though...

This software manufacturer will have one of a few unpalatable choices...>

He can tell the user to FO, causing user to return said package, causing WalMart to return said package , reducing revenues for himself.>

He can blame WalMart for selling "ersatz" Windows, getting WalMart PO'ed at him about finking them out to the user, ultimately losing the distro channel.>

They can get a copy of Lindows and rewrite their code so that it runs under Wine (maybe even contribute to Wine to get their software to run).

You're overly optimistic with your assessment I think. What is most likely to happen is that the user will spend a little bit of time and money getting in contact with the application vendor. The vendor's call center rep will ask which version of Windows they are running. The user will say "Lindows OS." The call center rep will say "I've not heard of that...is it Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows 2000, or Windows XP?" The user will say "Neither," and the call center rep will say "We only support this program on version of Microsoft Windows, I can't help you. Thanks for calling."

You see, Lindows may be a great idea. It may even be a great product. But it's not Windows and until the system requirements on the application's box say "runs on Lindows OS" then it doesn't matter how Windows-like it is.

Re:Could Put Lindows/Wal-Mart in a Sitcky Spot

[skt]

Nobody is going to test their software to see whether or not it works under WINE. If they are concerned with linux compatibility, they should release native binaries. Redhat has a much better chance of success than Lindows IMHO, lindows is going the emulation route which will eventually lead to problems, user frustration, etc. Redhat distributes WINE as well, but it doesn't make a big deal about it as the compatibily with big Windows applications (Access, Photoshop, IE, OE, etc) isn't very good.

I haven't had a chance to use Lindows or see a good review of this walmart PC yet, but I'm guessing that IE's performance under Lindows isn't very good. You would be better off running something like mozilla or galeon. Walmart took a step in the right direction going with a linux-based operating system, but I think they should have gone one step further and gone with Redhat...

Linux doesn't win.

[Telastyn]

Selling people Linux machines with Wine isn't a win for Linux. You still have to shell out probably more cash for Office than for the machines themselves, and it's probably not going to work very well, turning even more people away from "things that are different".

Sure this might be a loss for Microsoft, but it's certainly not a win for Linux.

Re:Linux doesn't win.

[mrfiddlehead]

The average FCN doesn't need Office. Open office is MORE than enough. As soon as the Microsoft apologists get that through their thick bloody heads we will be able to move on and away from this nonsense about office.

About the only issue that I can see for the average home user is the problem with Microsoft's proprietary streaming media formats, and financial software. But if we can avoid using quicken or money with a usable version of gnucash then we're all going to be better off anyway.

Re:Linux doesn't win.

[cmorriss]

Selling people Linux machines with Wine isn't a win for Linux. You still have to shell out probably more cash for Office than for the machines themselves, and it's probably not going to work very well, turning even more people away from "things that are different".

Umm.. Yeah it is a win. People aren't going to go out and buy MS Office if there's already this nice FREE Open Office program pre-installed that they can use. That goes for many of the other programs that Lindows comes with.

The fact is, people won't get it unless they at least have the option to run windows programs. If more people start using Lindows, they will certainly be more apt to use Linux programs since they'll run better. As more people use Linux programs, more companies will support the operating system.

Isn't giving people options what Linux is all about?

Re:Linux doesn't win.

[13Echo]

A lot of average users aren't dumb, and they know what to expect. I know of many Windows users that are interested in this Linux thing that they keep hearing about, but they haven't had the ability to check it out. The average user doesn't try to install Windows software on a Mac, or vice-versa. You would assume that they would get the concept with this too.

As long as they know that it is going to be somewhat different and will take some time to learn and adapt to, I think that they will realise that the costs outweigh the benefits of having MS Software on it at all. This is a beneficial tool for people that can't afford a more expensive PC. This gives them Internet capabilities and word processing for $300. This will run AOL, and play MP3s. All of these things are easy to do on a Lindows machine. What more do they need? Heck... For $300, I wouldn't personally be too heartbroken about trying something new. If it doesn't work, then they can always put Windows on it later. But at the worst case, a select few will probably immediately like Linux. A guy I work with was wowed by the Suse demo disk that I popped into a machine at work. He *liked* the fact that it was a bit different.

I am really sad that people think that Linux is an alternative that they should be intimidated by, because a lot of people like many the folks on Slashdot keep pretending that the rest of the world is too dumb to use it. They'll never pick it up as long as we have these myths.

Re:Linux doesn't win.

[pjrc]

Open office may be more than enough, but it's certainly not remotely equal to MS Office. It does not have the polish, and it does not have the usability.

And these things will matter to the consumer who intentionally chose the "cheap" machine with the "windows substitute" ??

Odd...

[Andy Dodd]

www.lindows.com doesn't mention Wal-Mart at all... In fact, they only mention preview releases.

If this were real, the people that make Lindows would have the news pasted all over their website.

I'm driving to Walmart today to see if I can check one of these 'puters out.

Windows Compatible

[Anonymous Coward]

The ad says:

This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX
with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most
Microsoft programs.

(Emphasis in bold not added) When you say this to the general public (which is pretty much the Wal-Mart crowd), you're saying that most programs will work exactly as they do under Windows, and not just run for a few *seconds* and crashing most of the time (like many do under Wine). Is theirs a reasonable claim? If not, it could make Linux look bad in general.

Re:Windows Compatible

[BigBir3d]

"These computers do not ship with Microsoft Windows. They ship with an exciting new UNIX based Operating System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most Microsoft programs. These computer systems are a perfect low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft Windows."

Nowhere do I see the word Linux. How is the average uneducated (OS wise) Wal-Mart customer going to know that Lindows uses the Linux kernel? Will they even know/care what the kernel is?

Personally, I think this is better news for KDE than anything else. AFAIK, there is no Gnome option.

Re:Windows Compatible

[FreeUser]

Nowhere do I see the word Linux. How is the average uneducated (OS wise) Wal-Mart customer going to know that Lindows uses the Linux kernel? Will they even know/care what the kernel is?

"Sauce for the goose, Mr. Savik."

Wallmart Lindows users will care as much about GNU/Linux as many of the zealously anti-RMS Linux folks care about the Free Software Foundation's message of Freedom (as opposed to "simply getting it to work as cheaply and as well as possible.").

The GNU/Linux community may get a small taste of what Stallman has undoubtably felt as he has seen his work taken, and no credit given (to the point where Linus Torvalds is actively discouraging any reference to the Free Software Foundation in any Linux kernel documentation, a rather spiteful act if there ever was one).

A small taste, mind you, and I think you are right to point out that any damage if Lindows doesn't perform may not affect GNU/Linux directly as a result (i.e. the community could dodge a bullet on this one). On the other hand, if it becomes wildly popular, we may very well see a world in which everybody has heard of and uses Lindows, but few have heard of or are aware that they are using Linux, much less GNU/Linux.

Sauce for the Goose, indeed, and an amusing bit of poetic irony if it indeed plays out that way. Personally, I think anything that brings freedom to the masses is a good thing (which is why, though I am deeply critical and fiarly annoyed at Linus' anti-FSF stance, I do not actively dislike the guy or in any way wish him ill, much less the OS I've come to know and love, by whatever name), and Wallmart's Lindows program might do just that, if they start offering such machines in their stores. Of course, Richard would undoubtably prefer it be called GNU/Lindows [evil grin], and it is with no little irony that he would be right in wishing so, as that might at least make people aware of GNU, of free software, and of software freedom in general (and thus, of the Linux kernel that underlies an important part of their Lindows systems) ... but just as open source provided a stepping stone for many a cynical suit (myself included ... yes, I was once a suit) to come to understand and ultimately embrace free software, so to might Wallmart and Lindows provide a similar stepping stone to many others.

Here's wishing them success, whatever the branding and naming conventions they use.

Re:Windows Compatible

[dontkillme]

I've been with Lindows for a little while now, that press release isn't accurate.
They've stated to insiders that their goal is not to run most, or even alot of windows applications...but just to run certain apps that are "critical".
I think that they're the ones who decide if it's "critical" or not.
Most of the time their response to questions about specific apps is met with "have you tried xxxx linux program?"

OS X

[!splut]

Looks like windows, kinda feels like windows, stable, UNIX based, runs most of the big important Windows programs...

We're talking Mac's with OS X, right?

Re:OS X

[MrResistor]

If you find a place where you can get a Mac with OS X for $300, let me know, because I would love to have one to play with.

Re:OS X

[pmz]

The difference: Wal-mart is selling their computers for $299 and up. $299! In this way, Wal-mart is not competing with Apple at all, since a person considering a really inexpensive PC will most likely not be considering a $3000 Apple workstation.

Re:OS X

[Arethan]

This is very true. Windows has a horrible time staying up for long periods of time. At my previous employer, we had several Linux/x86 and Irix/SGI boxes with uptimes varying between 8 months to a year and a half. The only time these boxes were ever shutdown or rebooted was for kernel upgrades and hardware upgrades/replacements.

On the otherhand, we also had several Windows boxes, and an MCSE on staff. We ended up scheduling automatic reboots every weekend in the mornings because the boxes would hang or crash if we didn't. The MCSE was no idiot either. There was literally no good reason why those boxes had to be rebooted all the time, they just did.

Re:OS X

[paradesign]

as i recall, its the other way around, windows looks like a mac. remember who the inovaters are, and its not the smurf factory that made xp!

Re:OS X

[mikethegeek]

"Looks like windows, kinda feels like windows, stable, UNIX based, runs most of the big important Windows programs...

We're talking Mac's with OS X, right?"

And what a missed opportunity for Apple. If Apple sold an equivalent OSX based Mac for $500, they'd make inroads into the home PC market.

But they don't. Because Apple, by and large, IMHO, has the same elitist viewpoint some in this thread are exhibiting.

I wish they would sell something decent for even $800-1,000. I really would LIKE to have a G4 based Mac with OSX. But when I can build a far faster PC based on an Athlon for half that, where is the incentive?

Re:OS X

[aussersterne]

Here's what I did a few months ago:

PowerMac 7300: $155 used at local university surplus sale.

17" PC Monitor, $25.00.

PC Monitor adapter for macs: $10.00.

OS X from eBay, $80.00.

Couple of hacks off the net to get OS X to install on some PowerMac machines: free.

OS X machine total cost: $270.

It can be done. Be creative.

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[rector]

They don't care about claims. They just say the the OS runs MOST Windows programs. This means that if the end user cannot run any particular Windows program (or even 100 programs), they always can say that there are 2 (or 200) programs out there that run perfectly (Noty to mention that most programs in general are rather basic comparing to big packages most people use.)

You know for all the whining you all do...

[Anonymous Coward]

about the uptake of Linux to the desktop you wouldn't think there would be so much negativity about this. Walmart is a huge retailer who is willing to preinstall a version of Linux that is actually usable to most people and still you complain. I hope this gets modded up because this negativity is quite disturbing. What a great way to get application/game devs to port their stuff. Do you people know how many people actually shop at Walmart. And suffice to say they are not all rednecks.

True price savings...

[danamania]

Not being from the US where this is all happening, the prices are just numbers that don't mean too much - compared to similar systems, do walmart look to be passing on the savings over providing windows?.

Looks a good idea so far, on two fronts - giving people an alternative to windows, and letting anyone who's a little more cluey to run an alternative system without having wasted cash on an OS they're not going to use. Thats the theory, nice if the practice holds up with lower prices.

a grrl & her server

Impression?

[Mr_Silver]

Hopefully Lindows makes a good impression.

Of course it will. They'll think it's fantastic, right up to the point when they try to install their favourite Windows applications and it all goes horribly wrong.

Then they'll mutter "crock of shit" and take it back to Walmart to complain.

Not that I blame them, Walmart is advertising it as having the ability to run most Microsoft software, which (unless it's changed drastically) isn't quite the case.

I'm all for getting Linux to the masses, but if they oversell what it can do, then they'll end up putting off people rather than attracting them.

Re:Impression?

[HiThere]

The people most likely to be confused are the new users.

These people will probably use the "free install software" that comes with their box. They'll ask for a word processor, and get Open Office instead of Word, etc. Lots of games on that list, but it doesn't include the ones in the stores, it includes TuxRacer, and things like that. But it's part of the fancy Software Warehouse (or some such) application, with all sorts of glitz wrapped around it.

I expect that they won't start trying to install other stuff until they get bored with what comes with the system. So it will probably take more than a couple of months.

Now I haven't tried Lindows. I've only looked at the pretty pictures. But it doesn't LOOK bad. Too bad they have it set up so that everyone runs as root. That's a bit hard to forgive, and WILL cause problems.

Re:Impression?

[NeuroManson]

Well, technically it *can*... But the problem is, do you know of *any* software company that produces Windows software, who distributes instructions describing how to install their apps under WINE, etc?

Wait a minute

[quantaman]

From lindows.com
*Note: Even though Insiders will also get the final version of LindowsOS when it's released later this year, the Insiders program is designed for those looking to get involved with our mission early on and take a look at the LindowsOS Sneak Previews as they are released and sharing their feedback with us. If you are only interested in looking at LindowsOS when it is finished and "useable", you should probably wait for the final release.

Okay, so it's not finished but you can order a Wal-Mart PC with it pre-installed now?!? I'd hate to think that thousands of red necks are going to become beta testers for a new linux distro!! And if it is somehow actually shipping (web sight horribly out of date) where is the source?? I'm not entirely clear on how the GPL works on this "preview" version they've been tossing around but if it is being distributed pre-installed on PCs I'm pretty sure that they have to release the source.

Re:Wait a minute

[morgajel]

who better to be a beta tester?

I think you just inadvertently made a great point.

these are *real people, redneck jokes aside. having a geek beta test something is a waste of time. they know what to expect. example: I've converted my girlfriend's computer to debian, and she's found plenty of problems with the default install I never would have.
there's no easy way for her to access the CDrom or the floppy drive.
she didn't know what "mount /floppy /dev/floppy" was, and she didn't care. we can't expect them to all jump to CLI and perl overnight.
Letting walmart customers betatest might not be the smartest Idea profit wise, but they'll get a LOT of good customer feedback:)

Re:Wait a minute

[Decimal]

who better to be a beta tester?

these are *real people, redneck jokes aside. having a geek beta test something is a waste of time.
[...] Letting walmart customers betatest might not be the smartest Idea profit wise, but they'll get a LOT of good customer feedback:)

*Ring*

Operator: "Lindows bug report center, please state the nature of the problem and what you were doing at the time the error occured."

Southern voice: "Yeah, my cumm-poo-ter ain't werk'n. An' I wudn't able t' catch no mouse, so how does I hook up dis here racoon I scrapped off deh road?"

Do you see the problem with relying upon the "normal" person to help hunt down the bugs? The typical person expects to buy a product that works flawlessly. So there's a real problem when Wal-Mart targets the common person to test a beta program. This could turn off everybody to Lindows even before it's ready to take off. Lindows might be a great product even if buggy, but they can't follow Microsoft's footsteps. Microsoft succeeded despite a buggy program due to it's establishment in the market. Lindows is starting from nothing using a buggy product to take on an already established, now stable product by Microsoft. Who also happens to be waging legal war against them. The Wal-Mart public beta doesn't help at all.

Re:Wait a minute

[morgajel]

well, linix/*bsd/OS X are eventually going to start making large moves into the desktop market whether we all like it or not. we're going to have to deal with it.
Better that an iffy company like lindows is the sacrificial lamb. If it works out, great, people will hear about linux and it will break out more than it has. if Lindows gets chomped into itty-bitty pieces, linux gets a bad name with the general populace... it's a risk that will eventually happen, I'd rather have lindows doing it than redhat, mandrake or debian...
all else fails we can say, "nonono, you chose the wrong one" and show the the path towards what you consider enlightenment.
(my apologies towards lindows fans.)

Here's a comment I posted Earlier ...

[dunstan]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=31934&cid=34 42 511

It is exciting to see this happening, but the acid test is whether they are still selling these machines in this config in three months' time. If they *are*, then we may have a major breakthrough on our hands.

Dunstan

Where I live

[bsDaemon]

In Gloucester, VA, they just built the largest Super Walmart and distribution centre in the world or some crap like that. So there are probably going to be a lot of bubbas to lazy to drive over to Newport News to go to CompUSA and will buy these things. I don't know why. J-Random Bubba Junior is going to be more hurt than helped by this. We complain about freedom or technical issues. They complain about not being able to play Solitare, read their email, and play the latest copy of some game. They don't need to be running UNIX to do those things. Chances are this will just present them with more options they don't understand. Windows is confusing enough for most people around here, why do they now need to be confused and only able to run "most" microsoft applications? Also, how does it help us to have a flood of people who arn't going to contribute anything back except bitch at us and demand help in chat rooms without saything "thank you" at the end as if we exist soley to be their god damned tech support line?

Not necessarily a good thing

[Gedvondur]

If I remember my ancient history properly, Commodore thought a good way to get to the masses was to sell product through K-Mart.

All that got them was the same reputation that Kame-Apart's crappy TVs had.

It made them a non-business option for whole legions of companies when they were still considered a viable option for businesses.

Are you going to install Lindows based PCs in your Fortune 500 enterprise when Wal-Mart sells them? Probably not.

Wally-Mart could very well be a kiss of death for Lindows as a viable OS for any kind of professional.

When you stain your product with "low class" like that, it's very hard to remove.

A risky choice, all around, IMHO.

Re:Not necessarily a good thing

[Roblimo]

Wal-Mart has been selling HP computers running Windows for a number of years now.

I notice that plenty of Fortune 500 enterprises buy from HP and use Windows.

But I live in a double-wide trailer and shopped at Wal-Mart a couple of days ago, so I'm sure this observation is not valid. :)

- Robin

Re:Not necessarily a good thing

[Gedvondur]

The Pavillion line of consumer grade boxes from HPQ is NOT the corporate workstations they sell. There is a clear division between the consumer line and the corporate line. (this is true of IBM in the past, Compaq, and Dell.)

I see no such division with the Lindows OS and there was no such division at Commodore.

As far as trailers go, I was taken home from the hospital when I was born it was to a trailer home. I occasionally shop at Wal-Mart. I don't like to because their stores are dirty and disorganized, not because of the caliber of shopper there with me.

It's not intended as a slam on Wally-Mart shoppers.

You do have to admit, however, that Wally Mart isn't what you would call "upscale" or "Corporate".

That was the point, apologies if I offended.

Re:Not necessarily a good thing

[BrianWCarver]

The best news about this is that its pre-installed linux on a low-cost box. The installation process, no matter how easy, is a big hurdle for many novice computer users. They use whatever came on the machine for three to five years and then they buy a new computer and use whatever comes on that one, etc. Now, is Wal-Mart and Lindows perfect? No. Not at all, but if this is even slightly successful we may be able to get Best Buy and Circuit City and so on to start offering a pre-installed Red Hat/Mandrake/SuSE option and THEN comes the revolution baby... When you walk in and start looking at HP/Compaq computers in Best Buy and the first question the sales rep asks you is, "Are you interested in an HP with Windows or Linux on it?" then things will have drastically changed. I look forward to it.

Re:Not necessarily a good thing

[mikethegeek]

"Are you going to install Lindows based PCs in your Fortune 500 enterprise when Wal-Mart sells them? Probably not."

If your argument is valid, then the opposite is equally valid:

Are you going to install Windows based PC's in your Fortune 500 enterprise when Wal-Mart sells them?

The elitism in this thread is really bothering me. I love and belive in Linux. I want it to grow beyond being a server OS and a geek desktop OS, because more use and development benefits us ALL...

Re:Not necessarily a good thing

[Gedvondur]

I am cautiously optomistic, but frankly I think the lesson that companies will learn is that good Level 1 tech support for Linux is hard to come by.

Companies will have to double their support costs to support both Windows and Linux (regardless of distro flavor).

Having worked in the deep past at a Best Buy, I can tell you that many of their customers are unprepared for Linux, in any form. They can't handle the Windows boxes they have.

Plus, super-cheap systems ALWAYS come with some kind of messed up non-standard hardware. Remember Packard Bell's soundcard/modem combos? This kind of thing will put tremendos pressure on manufacturers in both customer support and driver creation/updates.

Consumer grade PCs at a Best Buy are loss leaders to get you into the store and buy a printer and accessories to go with it.

Margins on this kind of product are incredibly thin. As much as I would LIKE to be able to get Linux (pick your distro flavor) on a machine like that, I think that the economics of the situation will be a significant barrier to entry.

Re:Not necessarily a good thing

[ocbwilg]

If I remember my ancient history properly, Commodore thought a good way to get to the masses was to sell product through K-Mart.

All that got them was the same reputation that Kame-Apart's crappy TVs had.

It made them a non-business option for whole legions of companies when they were still considered a viable option for businesses.

Are you going to install Lindows based PCs in your Fortune 500 enterprise when Wal-Mart sells them? Probably not.

First off, I'd like to point out that Commodore computers were always targetted at the home market, not Fortune 500 businesses. It made good business sense to sell your home PCs where people shopped for things for their homes, ie, Kmart, Target, Sears, Service Merchandise, etc.

Secondly, Commodore's home PCs didn't have nearly the sort of negative connotation that you seem to think they did. Were they the choice of big businesses? No. Were they one of the best options available for the home market? Yes. Were they consistently ahead of the curve as far as features and capabilities in a home PC? Yes.

And finally, just because something is sold at Wal-Mart doesn't make it cheap. Wal-Mart sells quality brand-name products. I shop at WallyWorld somewhat regularly and I've never purchased anything from them but brand name products. Yes, there are Wal-Mart "generic" brands (like Sam's Choice and Equate and the like), but Kroger's and Giant Eagle and many other large retailers also have their house brands. Does that make a brand-name product purchased from them any less of a brand-name?

Here's a little secret for you...I used to work for a food company that made several well-known national brands of pasta, sauces, soups, etc. One of the larger portions of their business was also making "generic" store-brand products for the large chain stores that sold our brand-name products. The same quality control and recipes were used, but the packaging had a different name on it. So what you think is an inferior store-brand product is often times no different that what you're paying an extra 98 cents for.

Looks like they are trying to let the public know

[Str8Dog]

These computers do not ship with Microsoft Windows. They ship with an exciting new UNIX based Operating System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most Microsoft programs. These computer systems are a perfect low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft Windows.

Taken from the site

I like the low cost alternative line. Looks to to me like they are selling barebones boxes and including lindows to stop MS from starting some kind of legal war. Saying that Wal-Mart is encouraging warez.

Re:windows

[ceejayoz]

MS whores? No, the posts in here have been from Linux elitists. "Down with Microsoft, but screw the non-technical users, we don't want them" has been the general gist of the comments so far. No wonder Linux hasn't gotten much market share in the desktop market - the people who write it don't WANT average people to use it.

Great news, but...

[jejones]

...I wonder how MS is going to retaliate? (Also, a few times I've pestered the local brick-and-mortar Wal-Mart about whether they sell computers without an OS--"Gee, walmart.com has them..."--and I'll probably ask them about these, too. Will Wal-Mart ever sell these in the brick-and-mortar stores?)

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[Bilbo]

Are we sure this is a good thing? Now every billy joe bob in the territory is going to be calling me up wanting me to come fix his computer..

And, the problem with this is....?

Aren't we always saying that it's the non-technical users who make up the bulk of the market, and who, in the end, will finally break the back of the MS monopoly on the desktop market?

Besides, I really doubt that the "Billy Bob" type users will be buying this. They are going to stick with the brand name they know -- Microsoft. It's the somewhat adventurous types who will buy into this, just because it's different, or cutting edge, or "revolutionary". Those are the people who may not have enough money to go out and plunk down $1500 for a new Dell and set out on their own, but lower the entrance barriers just a little bit, and they'll jump for it.

This will NOT create a legion of new Linux users

[Quarters]

As far as I can tell this new promotion is like the OS-less PC promotion. It is being offered online only. You can not go into a Wal*Mart store and buy and OS-less PC. I doubt you will be able to go into a Wal*Mart store and buy a Lindows PC.

So, who has access to the Wal*Mart website? Those people who already have a computer. Who goes to Wal*Mart.com to buy a PC? Outside of those people that want an OS-less PC to install Linux on, probably not a large number of people.

This isn't going to convert unsuspecting people to Linux users (a dangerous thing to wish for at any rate). It isn't going to spread Linux to the mass market. It isn't going to steal any appreciable market share away from Microsoft.

It's noteworthy for the fact that a major retailer has thumbed their nose at Microsoft. But, that same major retailer is only thumbing their nose while behind a box in a locked room with the shades drawn so that the world can not really see that they are doing it.

If other major computer resellers follow suit (which I doubt they will), then this will become interesting. Now, though, it's nothing more than YALPOS (Yet Another Linux Post On Slashdot)

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[maniac11]

WalMart is destroying America. As a member of this society, the most important thing you can do is vote with your dollars. Buy locally. You'll almost assuredly have a better experience and you won't be sending your dollars to Arkansas.

Is it easy to call the Innernet?

[ch-chuck]

If it was darn easy to plug into a phone, subscribe to an ISP and get browsing and email, it may have a chance, then the genuinely interested users can start up the learning curve and enjoy a crash & virus free existance.

Personally, I've avoided helping out home users with all their GD windows problems for years, as I'm not about to waste my time working free tech support for multi-billionaires, but if I meet someone with one of these it'd be fun to talk shop with them.

Re:Is it easy to call the Innernet?

[Christianfreak]

"users can start up the learning curve and enjoy a crash & virus free existance."

I don't know. Lindows is using Wine and I thought Wine's point was to bring on the Outlook viruses to Linux as well :)

In all seriousness though Lindows can run Outlook it might actally be possible for a virus that's fairly self contained to execute in that environment. At the very least it could probably get at an Outlook address book.

Internet Appliance Functionality

[Erasmus Darwin]

I have a feeling that the emulation capabilities will always be in the realm of "kinda sorta, if you fiddle with it maybe, but not really". Unlike a computer geek (who generally has a compelling reason to stay booted into Linux), I suspect most regular consumers who want to run Windows-based programs would be better off paying for Windows. They don't have an investment in the free-software clause (except for an appreciation for software that's free-as-in-beer), and the gains from Linux's stability would most likely be overshadowed by the problems introduced during emulation.

But I do see a very important market for these machines as grown-up versions of Internet appliances. If all someone wants to do is surf the web, send email, and do word processing, they can get away with native Linux applications. At $299, that's not a bad deal for someone who just doesn't care about the functionality that's not as easily available under Lindows.

I don't think this is going to work

[g4dget]

Even if Lindows has done their homework technically and everything works smoothly (and that's a big if), I think Microsoft is not going to let this pass. If they perceive Lindows and similar systems as a threat, they are going to change the licensing agreements for MS Office, and they are going to add little tests here and there to make sure that they are running on genuine Microsoft Windows. It doesn't have to break the applications badly--just a few little inconveniences and problems (can't print in MS Office, can't find its plug-ins in IE) would be sufficient. And Lindows would get blamed.

Let's just hope that Linux doesn't go down in flames alongside with Lindows.

Re:Must be great to be a WINE developer....

[amccall]

To be fair to the Lindows people, they are donating much of their Wine code and efforts back into Wine. As Lindows continues to advance, so will Wine. There is a lot more to Lindows than simply the Wine DLL's and such.

rednecks? you should be so fortunate

[jeffn7]

what kills me about the Linux crowd, please excuse the generalization, is that there is absolute belief in the superiority of the platform, and absolute obsession with the lack of respect it gets in the mainstream.

But what makes this observation interesting is that their is also an undercurrent of clubiness (sic?) about the whole thing. The idea that the masses could actually start using Linux is troubling to this group, as it would dilute the cachet of the club. This is bizarre to say the least, as mainstream adoption of Linux would only serve to achieve the first point, respect, and of course the other obsession, deflation of microsoft.

I don't take particular offense to the redneck comments, but you would really have to be an idiot to think that only rednecks shop at Walmart. I mean, christ, they have over $200b in sales. I guess the only thing that would make you a bigger idiot is to not understand how many personal computers are sold in the US annually, and how many of them go through channels like walmart.

Re:rednecks? you should be so fortunate

[Bandman]

I know why I would fret at the rest of the world using Linux...I'm in tech support. Fixing something on a linux computer that is on the net is fine...fixing someone's chat script remotely over the phone is a nightmare, which i've actually lived. Linux is great for me, for most of the computer ppl that I know, and for servers (along with a healthy mix of BSD) but it stops at my little brother. He's pretty good, and he gets by with linux, but i wouldn't want to support anyone less comfortable on a computer than him...

Speaking of Rednecks...

[CleverNickName]

The only way Lindows is going to catch on with the 'necks is if you can run one of the Big Game Hunter or Super Bass Fishing games on it.

Mark my words.

Go on, mark 'em! I dare you!

Re:Speaking of Rednecks...

[colmore]

he's making fun of rednecks while sporting a Metallica .sig? it's worse than i'd imagined!

Re:Speaking of Rednecks...

[Reziac]

Naw... gotta have Redneck Rampage on it. :)

Yikes, Linux as a commodity...

[warpSpeed]

Well, I guess I have to pick another line of work now. Before you know it every one (red necks included) will be getting thier linux at WalMart and I will be out of a job.

I can hear it now, "Honey I'm starting an I-S-P right here in our Livin' room. Jest as soon as I can figure out how to edit all these miss files". (thats MS. for the humor impared)

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[meisenst]

I live near a Wal-Mart... and I'm a Lindows Insider. I guess all Lindows Insiders are rednecks too?

Hey, wait, does that mean that since the Lindows staff are all inherently Insiders, that they are all rednecks as well?

Whoa, hold on! They are contributing to the general software cause that we all love to talk about here on Slashdot. Does that mean all contributors to the well-being of Linux and alternative OSes, Slashdot readers, and everyone else that uses a computer is a redneck?

I think I've made my point somewhere herein.

me

obSimpsons

[superid]

Sorny?
Panaphonix?
Magnetbox?

I know Lindows = Linux + Windows

[Dephex Twin]

But I think this is really not a good name. Lindows may be a combination of names, but it sounds like a knockoff of Windows. If you saw brand of foam toys called "Norf", would you think it was trying to succeed on its own or that it was a knockoff of Nerf?

Likewise, this name on the shelves makes Lindows, and in turn Linux, sound like a knockoff of Windows, because it is directly comparing itself to Windows. Some people already have trouble grasping that the Mac OS and Linux (if they've heard of it) aren't kinds of Windows.

I wonder if this product being on the shelves in Wal-Mart (among lots of non-techies) will do good or harm. Hopefully it won't damage the Linux name.

mark

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[Alsee]

aren't they afraid of claims for 'not functioning like windows

It isn't windows.
If what you expect Genuine Windows then BUY Genuine Windows.

Hopefully the good differences will be better than the bad differences, but there is a difference. I've never used it, so I don't know if it's "ready".

-

Only available on Walmart.com?

[Capt_Troy]

This is pretty ironic. You have to already have a computer to buy one? Most people who would buy a low end system like these probably don't already own a computer (besides the geeks here) and are looking for a cheap way to get one.

On a side note, I think Lindows will fail and make Linux look like crap to the general public.

On the other hand.

[Andy Dodd]

I wonder how many customers will try the "Click and run" apps (Many popular opensource packages there) and decide that they are extremely happy with them, minimizing the need to install Winblows software.

Gamecompatibility scares me, though.

Re:On the other hand.

[G00F]

Maybe they are further along than they let us believe? I was one to think lindows would be vaporware/betaware for years. But if they are really going to be releasing this to what many people would call the none to bright masses, they must have some ace up their sleave.

Wal-Mart makes Windows a commodity product

[WEFUNK]

For Wal-Mart to be using their power and credibility to position Lindows like this - as a direct alternative to a "commoditized" Windows OS - should be making MS shake in their boots. This is really big. I hope that this is more than just an experiment but a whole-hearted effort to introduce and market these systems to the average shopper.

Previously, Linux and other alternatives have been positioned as being too disimilar to Windows for the average consumer to take notice. While early adopters and niche users may see the differences as the key selling points, the average consumer is looking for compatibility and familiarity FIRST, then other advantages SECOND (price, stability, and misc. features).

Wal-Mart's actions not only position alternative operating systems in a different light, they also serve to re-position Windows itself by making the Windows Operating System appear to be a commodity like the PC has long been. When advertising the compatibility of Lindows, their enormous market power allow them to be more liberal with their use of the Microsoft and Windows brandnames than your average software developer or computer retailer could ever chance.

This is may be very analogous to what happened to the IBM PC vs. the clones as well as the situation with generic drugs. Many continue to buy the "genuine" branded article, but others will take personal pride in buying the "same" product for less - and maybe even with some different or better features thrown in for free.

This might be a first step in fragmenting the market around a common Windows compatible "standard" offered by multiple vendors at competitive prices. Also, it could result in opening more people's eyes to the advantages of using non-Windows based systems to meet their individual needs. I imagine that the reality will be somewhere in the middle, and that this will be a good thing for both consumers and business.

Re:Wal-Mart makes Windows a commodity product

[malfunct]

Yeah but what made the clones viable in the market is that they ran exactly the same OS and exactly the same software in exactly the same way as the IBM PC.

Lindows is enough different from Windows that I think the people that I see buying computers at walmart will end up confused and displeased when thier favorite games won't play. (does lindows support all the fancy DirectX graphics stuff yet?)

Still I'm interested enough at this point to download the iso and check out the distribution.

Re:Wal-Mart makes Windows a commodity product

[pmz]

When advertising the compatibility of Lindows, their enormous market power allow them to be more liberal with their use of the Microsoft and Windows brandnames than your average software developer or computer retailer could ever chance.

Although Wal-Mart's enormous size does worry me, they can use their status as The World's Biggest Corporation to successfully displace Windows. Often, for every bully (i.e., Microsoft), there is always an even bigger and nastier bully (i.e., Wal-Mart).

Re:Wal-Mart makes Windows a commodity product

[bluGill]

No, genuine IBM machines ran PC-DOS, while everyone else ran MS-DOS. They were slightly different. In theory only in a few strings. (I seem to recall that PC-DOS didn't run on generic machine though) However PC-DOS and MS-DOS has idenitical functionality from a user's point of view.

Lindows runs most Windows software. I remember when clones claimed 99% compatability, because of the few apps that didn't run. However there soon were enough clones out there that programs that didn't run on a 99% compatable clone were ignored by the marketplace. Hopefully Lindows can achive the same thing - programs that depend on something Lindows/wine doesn't impliment lose in the marketplace.

"legions of rednecks"

[jeffehobbs]

To think of the legions of rednecks who could now possibly be running Lindows instead of Windows

Could you be more condescending?

~jeff

Re:"legions of rednecks"

[Bandman]

he could have done it in a southern accent...

*duck*

Re:"legions of rednecks"

[Silas]

Yeah, hey, watch it with the redneck jokes. I've been pretty happy living on a small farm in rural Indiana for the past few years, but that doesn't mean I can't kick your ass when it comes to administering a FreeBSD cluster, desigining a network, writing Perl, or other mad skillz. And that's between feeding the sheep, planting the garlic, driving big trucks around, and whatever else it is you think we do. Just watch out - one day a "redneck"'s might just 0wN jo0. :)

Re:"legions of rednecks"

[lordsutch]

No doubt the comment is the result of visiting (or not visiting) the absolute craphole of a Wal-Mart in Ypsilanti.

OTOH, I'd put my Wal-Mart Supercenter up against your Meijer any day...

"Legions of Rednecks"?

[n6mod]

Wrong distro.

Everyone knows it's RedHat that has the Redneck language option. (Even if it's just for the installer.)

-Z

Why I think wal-mart is great!

[phunhippy]

I agree with a previous poster who is upset for dissing on wal-mart.. Wal-Mart is a wonderful store.

I mean they offer dirt cheap prices!

The most important part thoe is when you walk into a wal-mart you are greeted by a 90 year old guy on oxygen and with a walker that says "welcome to walmart can i help you?" in some crazy i'm about to die voice and of course your like no no no its ok thanks anway and quickly walk away so you won't get whatever he has :)

Now you tell me, who else is gonna give that man a job? NO ONE thats right.. not small local businesses either.. go wal-mart! helping the people who can't walk or breathe one store at a time!!

Re:Why I think wal-mart is great!

[Mr.Sharpy]

Wal-Mart is an evil corporation. Those dirt cheap prices you pay have a price elsewhere. There is an excellent story about Wal-mart on Alternet.
How Wal-Mart is Remaking our World

This is worse how?

[lsommerer]

I can just imagine millions of these things selling widely. Then every single one being hacked by one group with the same root exploit. Think of the headlines "Wal- Mart facilitates domestic terrorism" "Internet Weakened by Linux manchines" etc.[...]

Now just imagine the PR nightmare for Microsoft if they sold millions of machines that were routinely vulnerable to exploits. Oh, nevermind.

Re:This is worse how?

[gimpboy]

this is worse because microsoft has what most would consider to be a significant pr machine that can deflect negative issues such as these. linux lacks this type of representation in the media. as a result the negative attention will have a much greater impact on linux than windows reguardless of how much each should be getting.

Users aren't allowed to run Internet Explorer

[El Prebso]

I think the EULA for Internet Explorer stats that you need a valid Windows licens.

Sure you can run it without but that would violate the EULA, and that is actually illegal.
Just because you don't like Microsoft, it doesn't make it okay to break the law.
So who is going to make sure that Lindows users don't install IE ?

From the IE EULA

1. GRANT OF LICENSE. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is licensed as follows:

* Installation and Use. Microsoft grants you the right to install and use copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on your computers running validly licensed copies of the operating system for which the SOFTWARE PRODUCT was designed [e.g., Windows(r) 95; Windows NT(r), Windows 3.x, Macintosh, etc.].

(Okay this is from IE 4.0, but I don't think they changed it alot).

Now I don't think that IE is designed for Lindows. Well perhaps no one will think of the idea of installing IE, let's hope so.

Re:Users aren't allowed to run Internet Explorer

[vidarh]

You're assuming that the EULA is actually valid and that the clauses contained with it are actually legal in the first place. Neither are by no means certain, and if they were enforced there would be a pretty good reason to go after Microsoft for violating the Sherman Act on yet another count.

Wal-Mart *IS* a technology focused company.

[Tadghe]

alright damnit, enough is enough.

> Walmart isn't really rooted in the technology industry

utter bullshit.
Guess who has the largest *private* database in the world. (and is the SOLE reason that NCR Teradata is still alive) Wal-Mart (with somewhere around 130TB in thier Topend system)
Guess who has the largest single IMAP install in the world? Wal-Mart Guess who is (or was) Dell's Largest customer...Wal-Mart
Guess who employees over 1400 in house (not contractors) programmers (in a single location (ok, you can split hairs with SMWDC/DMGTC being seperate)...Wal-Mart
Guess which retail chain bet the bank on EDI before the next 6 largest guys even thought of it...Wal-Mart

With over 2500 stores and a sub 2 second transaction time to *all of them* , how the heck did you think they were *NOT* a technology based company!?

That crap about Wally world not being a technology company is baloney. Sam Walton bet the bank on computer technology when his rivals were still using paper invoices.
I would note that the decision to sell Lindows prob has nothing to do with Wal-Mart as a company, but a lot to do with what it's Buyers and Marketing dept think will sell. (To those who have never worked in the corporate side of retail, Buyers are the guys/gals who buy the things the company then sells to it's customers, they typically work out the deals, many retail firms use independant buyers, but Wally world (and a few, very few) other companies do it all in house)).

If someone really wants to know why they are selling Lindows, then ship off a message to president@wal-mart.com, The are quite good about responding, though I'm not sure what their answer will be.

About the crack about rednecks buying Lindows...what do you think the average demographic of a Wally world online customer is? I'm willing to bet it's not ma and pa kettle in podunk Arkansas.

--Tadghe, former WalMartian.

Re:Wal-Mart *IS* a technology focused company.

[mdw2]

My friend, it's amazing how completely off target you are on your response. You addressed a statement that was never made. The post to which you responded never said that walmart didn't use a lot of technology, it said walmart was not a company who made all it's money selling PC's. You however decided to jump the gun and write a wonderful rant about walmarts internal IT structure, however that was nowhere near the discussion. The posters point was that walmart could afford to go out on a limb like this because they make a lot of money selling OTHER products.

Re:Wal-Mart *IS* a technology focused company.

[Tadghe]

mayhap I did, but I took it as a comment on Wally world not being a technology focused company....If I was incorrect then my apologies, if not then my rant stands...

Re:Wal-Mart *IS* a technology focused company.

[bmalia]

About the crack about rednecks buying Lindows...what do you think the average demographic of a Wally world online customer is? I'm willing to bet it's not ma and pa kettle in podunk Arkansas.

Ha! With your vast knowledge of Wal-Mart, SURELY you see the irony in that Wal-Mart's headquarters IS located in (and has a super-store that does a butt-load of bussiness in) a small town in Arkansas!

If you ever went to Wal-Mart to freshen up for a date... --Jeff Foxworthy

Re:Wal-Mart *IS* a technology focused company.

[Tony-A]

I'd say that he was very on-target.
This is consumer electronics at a few hundred a pop instead of home computing at a few thousand a pop. That Walmart has experience on the bleeding edge of "new" technology is quite relevant.

the thing that bothers me

[Richthofen80]

is that most people who buy computers at wal-mart are clueless, and 90% of the time, so are the salespeople. I think people won't even know they are getting something different, then be incredibly pissed when their spider solitare doesn't run on it.

rednecks won't buy these until...

[nvts]

they carve out a section of the actual stores and attempt to sell them. Remember this is just their online store. The online store sells MANY MANY more items than the real stores sell.

This will be big news when the redneck can actually walk into a Walmart and see the Lindows computer on the shelf and put it in their cart.

Re:rednecks won't buy these until...

[buckeyeguy]

So, in other words, to buy one of these, you have to have access to a PC already? Hmm, kinda defeats the 'unwashed masses' image of who's going to be buying these things.

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[lrichardson]

"Besides, I really doubt that the "Billy Bob" type users will be buying this. They are going to stick with the brand name they know -- Microsoft. It's the somewhat adventurous types who will buy into this, just because it's different, or cutting edge, or "revolutionary". Those are the people who may not have enough money to go out and plunk down $1500 for a new Dell and set out on their own, but lower the entrance barriers just a little bit, and they'll jump for it."

I think you're seriously overestimating the the public's decision making ability. They want cheap. And easy. M$ has made a fortune on selling 'ease of use' ... which, to a certain extent, is true: Windows is generally easier to set up for the average user. Crashes and the BSOD? Standard marketing line ... lure them in with the lowest price, and promise them the sun and the moon, then, when they're hooked, they have to keep buying 'upgrades' and 'compatible software'.

The other bit of info I think is relevent is just what the average user does ... which is, according to numerous studies, the internet (surfing, mail, and IM), and games. Lindows has proved that it handles the first group (i.e., running IE, Outlook/Express, and IM, as well as built in versions) perfectly well. Games? Well, I cried over the death of Loki, but as a programmer, it's generally far easier to write (games) for *nix based systems than trying for compatibility with every damn Windows version. (Anyone still fighting the Netrek addiction?)

I believe *nix was already starting to erode the monopoly the M$ had ... this is just another step (although a large one) along that road.

Appropriate Simpsons Quote

[DeadSea]

Homer: Look at these low, low prices on famous brand-name electronics!

Bart: Don't be a sap dad. These are just crappy knock-offs.

Homer: I know a genuine 'Panaphonics' when I see one. And look, there's 'Magnet Box' and 'Sorny'!

Salesman: [walking up] Listen, I'm not going to lie to you. Those are all superior machines. But if you like to watch your TV, and I mean _really_ watch it, you want the Carnivale'. [shows Homer and Bart a TV very similar to their old one] It features two-pronged wall plug, pre-molded hand grip well, durable outer casing to prevent fallapart...]

Homer: Sold. You wrap it up, I'll start bringing in the pennies.

[3F11] Scenes from the Class Struggle in Springfield

others will need to compete now

[awptic]

I think the most interesting part of this is that now other stores selling computers will have to find ways of competing with these insanely low priced computers, and I think the first thing they'll do is throw out Windows. Although alot of people will disagree, I think ESR had a good point when he said that microsoft would be doomed when the cost of PC hardware dropped below that of Windows, and we're almost at that point already.

Re:others will need to compete now

[DanThe1Man]

Wern't some PCs "free" a couple of years ago? (with long term dail-up accounts) That didn't kill Windows.

Very interesting double standard

[ilsie]

I find it interesting that /.ers see Microsoft as an evil corporation (for obvious reasons) and Wal-Mart as a champion of the people because they are selling Lindows boxes, even though Wal-Mart shamelessly exploits Maquiladora sweatshop labor, lies about it's products being made in the USA, and forces artists to censor their music, among other things.

At least the people Microsoft empoly get paid well.

Re:Very interesting double standard

[owlmeat]

Not everyone has a double standard here. There's plenty of negative comments about Wal-Mart and I, for one, do not see this thing as being a victory of any sort for Linux. Wal-Mart is simply using the cheapest (as in beer) product that is available. There's no regard to the actual useability of the product. Chances are that 80 percent of these machines will be running a bootlegged copy of Win within 48 hours of purchase.

Re:Very interesting double standard

[bluGill]

True, but all of wal-mart's compititon is worse. Wal-Mart happily sells guns. Target won't touch them, and K-Mart will sell them, but the company has made it clear they don't like it.

Every weekend in summer I can go to wal-mart and get my car washed by some local community charity. Wal-mart seems to encourage this, Target will not allow it. (I don't know about K-mart)

Wal-mart has problems i'll agree. They are still better for the comunity than Target or K-Mart, so I shop at Wal-Mart when I can live with cheap over quality, which is often. There are several "little guys" in town who sell stuff that appears to compete with Wal-Mart, and they can do so because they have better service, or higher quality. Before Wal-Mart they might have had quality, but I never shoped there when I has a choice because they didn't have service.

As for censoring of music, I find that most people think it is a good idea, so long as goverment isn't doing it. If you really want dirty music you can get it, there is no law against it. You just have to look harder.

Re:new software suggestion for lindows...

[mikeee]

Mother and sister are one and the same?

Apparently these rednecks have Linux and time travel, because they're their own fathers! Who knew...

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[packeteer]

im afriad that a beta might not give a good impression to users who may buy it thinking its some cheap windows clone... major labels are cloned everywhere else so why not computers?... i can amagine there are going to be some angry people when they get it home and realise it's NOT windows... Lindows need to be exposed better for this to work but i think this is one way to get that exposure... kinda a catch-22

I almost bought one

[Col. Panic]

and then I realized I already have nine computers at home. Now if they offered it on T.V. and said the girl with the pretty smile was waiting to take my credit card info ... THEN I would be persuaded.

Click-n-run security issues?

[mesozoic]

I've been wondering about this Click-n-Run thing they've got going, where you click a web link to install software packages (like Apache) on your computer. Some you have to pay for, some are free. One of the requirements, they say, is that you are running the browser that came with Lindows -- presumably because there is some sort of extension they've put on to support it.

Now, doesn't this seem terribly insecure to anyone else? Allowing web pages to install software onto your computer is the sort of thing Windows does, and Linux doesn't, and I'm happy for that distinction. Does anyone (any Lindows insiders, maybe?) have any more info on this?

Re:Familiar.....

[vegetablespork]

It might have a better chance without IBM's OS/2 marketing team behind it.

Just like NASCAR

[GungaDan]

"If it crashes a lot, will anyone notice?"

Rednecks only watch it for the crashes.

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[daddymac]

It isn't windows.
If what you expect Genuine Windows then BUY Genuine Windows.

Ah, but when someone goes into WalMart and says "Does this run Windows?", the Sales Rep. is more than likely going to be one of two people:
1. The kind who says "No, it runs Lindows, but Lindows can run all of the Windows Programs, so they're basically the same."
2. The kind who thinks is actually is Windows, because they have never used a computer other than the cash register and says "Yeah, it runs Windows." and goes back to dusting off TVs.

I would be really impressed if Lindows actually ran MOST Windows software as the ad claims. I would be even more impressed if the "Windows software" they are talking about only includes the latest productivity and entertainment software. I wouldn't be impressed if "MOST" refers to old Windows 3.1 games and MSPAINT.EXE.

Walmart is no hero.....

[Sesq]

What makes so many of you think this is a good thing? Walmart isn't making this move in order to support OSS or promote Linux. They're doing it to sell cheap computers. They couldn't care less about Linux.

What I see happening is a bunch of people buying these Lindows boxes believing that they can run any Windows software on it. When they find out this is not the case, they'll blame Linux/Lindows. Then they will have a (albeit misguided) distaste for Linux and be convinced that MS is the only way to go.

I don't see this as any kind of victory. I see it as a disaster waiting to happen.

If these run Lindows, they run real Linux- cheap!

[aquarian]

Now we have a steady supply of pre-assembled, Linux-compatible computers for $299. Who can complain about that? If these machines run Lindows, they'll run our favorite Linux distribution too. How well, I don't know, but at least drivers exist for all the hardware.

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[DrCode]

"They just say the the OS runs MOST Windows programs."

The same is true of 'genuine' Windows.

But I do wonder how well Lindows does when you stick a random Win32 app. CD in. My experience with WINE (up to a few months ago) has been generally bad.

NO love lost for Walmart, but "rednecks"?

[Bravo_Two_Zero]

Hey, I'm not going all "PC" on y'all (pun intended), but instead of "redneck", think "your grandmother and/or your mother". I know Walmart is a popular hangout for the bumbles of the world, but they have a really long reach in terms of mass-market retail access. They are, for all intents, the Sears Roebuck of this generation. Everyone goes to Walmart at some point. If you want our favorite GPL operating system going to the masses, this is the way to make it happen.

Now, if Target would just do the same thing with a slightly upscale ($50 increase), neatly-designed case in the fashion of most of their homegrown goods, we'd really be in business.

Now you'll replace junk Linux for good Linux...

[Linegod]

Will it never end? I use to buy PCs, remove the junk OS, and install Linux. Now I get the chance to buy a PC with a junk Linux on it, wipe it and install a good distro. Seems more like a lateral move than an upward one.

.

Re:Now you'll replace junk Linux for good Linux...

[Kredal]

But you're paying 100 dollars less for the junk linux than the junk MS!

Looks like a upward move to me!

This is big

[lelitsch]

And not for the legions of rednecks. But if I were a redneck parent or teacher at a school with a small IT budget, I'd be over at Walmart for the 850MHz Duron in a New York minute and get the truck loaded. At $299 and no Microsoft tax, one could even get a few extras for trash-on-break tech support. Hell, I might even buy a few and spread them around the house as email/web stations, MP3 players and use up all the old monitors I was thinking about throwing away for five years. Another good thing about Walmart is that they are far less annoying about returns replacements than the BestBuys of this world.

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[mikeee]

so, remember folks:

Buying from local merchant: Good.
Buying from non-local stone-age tribesmen: Good. No, wait, bad! No, wait, good!
Buying at Giant Swedish Superstore: Good.
Buying from Large Arkansas Superstore: Bad.

Hey, if I move to Bentonville, can I still shop at Wal-mart?

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[NanoGator]

Did it occur to you that the reason people go to Walmart is because it's cheap and convenient? They didn't put a musket to anybody's head.

When I was a teenager, I had a friend that had 3 bros and 3 sis's. They *needed* WalMart to survive. If they had cheap computers running Lindows for cheap, then they'd have been able to get on the net.

Who's paying for Office?

[aquarian]

I doubt the target audience for these machines is shelling out $$$ for Office. I'm sure they'd love to have a cheap computer that will run a "borrowed" copy, though.

Gotta Love the Linux Crowd

[LordYUK]

You guys are as fickle as a dumb blond. Yesterday it was "blast Bioware they arent supporting Linux out of the box" and now its "Blast Wal-mart FOR trying to support a Linux distro"! Which is it guys? I mean, COME OFF IT! You dont REALLY want Linux to be mainstream, do you? No, I didnt think so. If you did, you'd be WILLING to help "J Bubba Jr." to not only install his mouse, but actually RUN a program or two on his new l33t machine! Instead, 99% of you are pissy. Why?? A MAJOR RETAILER (like it or not, they ARE) is selling a LINUX COMPUTER. CHEAP TOO! It doesnt make sense. Or is it just because you're starting to realize that if EVERYONE switches to linux, you'll no longer be l33t hax0rs??

AOL the Killer App.

[bstadil]

I am wondering why nobody has mentioned AOL. The ability to run the AOL client is the killer app. for this type of machine. The issue is not a $200+ office suite for a $266 machine, the issue is for the whole family to be able to get onto the internet "safely" and send Pic's to Grand-Ma.

Re:AOL the Killer App.

[G00F]

Well, aol behind the sceens is anti-ms, and pretty linux friendly, I would say they just might release a linux version of aol.

And that might also be the worst virus to hit linux ever too.

Re:AOL the Killer App.

[Dr. Evil]

Just try plugging in that hardware to get those pictures to Grandma.

Re:AOL the Killer App.

[DanThe1Man]

MS office runs great with regular WINE.

When will Microsoft foil Wine?

[aquarian]

I wonder how long it will take for Microsoft to start using code that foils Wine...

It proves nothing.....

[owlmeat]

I think that Wal-Mart just wanted a throwaway OS to mount on these machines. I predict that 80 percent of them will be running a pirated copy of Win within 48 hours of purchase.

Support?

[Mignon]

Not that I'm thinking of buying one of these (got enough computers these days) but this is exciting.

What I'm curious about is the tech support issue. It seems to me that by offering a Lindows pre-installed PC, it's now in Wal*Mart's interest to see Lindows be as stable as possible and as compatable with Windows applications as possible.

Does anyone suppose they plan to help out Lindows development if, say, the next version of some popular Windows software doesn't work with Lindows? Now that would really impress me. (And then I'd think about buying one of these boxes.)

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[tjw]

From the Walmart page:

This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most Microsoft programs.

Microsoft programs are only a small subset of Windows (Win32) programs. I assume Lindows claims to support Microsoft programs like Office, MS Money, Frontpage, etc.

a legion of rednecks

[LWolenczak]

A legion of rednecks? Where? 6000 rednecks could only mean a country or bluegrass concert is near by!?!?!?!?! Run for the hills... Run for your lives!!!!

Re:World's largest retailer

[vidarh]

Well, Yahoo is wrong. Microsofts market cap is still larger than Wal-Marts. Not by that much, though, since Microsoft is down 40% of so from their peak.

So soon? Eric Raymond was right!

[s390]

Damn! According to the so-called "conventional wisdom" of ZDnet, Gartner, Mindcraft and the rest of those paid Microsoft shills (including Asscrack's DoJ), there must be Mach-3 supersonic pigs screaming through the raging ice-storms down in Hell today.

There's suddenly an affordable, easily usable by Joe and Jane SixPack, and completely Microsoft free PC on sale to even ordinary consumers! Eric Raymond's prophecy is realized much earlier than anyone might have thought. He even nailed the price point at $300. Few people who buy these PCs will shell out as much or more for Microsoft Office since it already comes with OpenOffice all loaded up and ready to use. This is just awesome. Right on, Eric! It's all downhill for Microsoft now; they're done, dead, gone.

Wal-Mart's cheap (but good enough) consumer PCs will force Dell, HPQ, and other vendors to match their price, which they won't be able to do with Windows and Office preloaded. They will simply have to offer Microsoft-free PCs to compete, or they'll lose marketshare. And that's more important to them than their former subservience to Microsoft. Look for Dell, HPQ, even IBM PCs sprouting Linux or Lindows real soon. Hopefully after you manage to sell any Microsoft stock you might have in your portfolio.

I'm telling all my non-37337 relatives and friends to jump on this before Wal-Mart sells out all their stock and/or recognizes the tremendous demand and raises their prices. Shee-it, a $300 Internet-ready, M$-Office compatible, multimedia PC? Anyone who doesn't have a fast and capable machine already is going to want one of these things, if only because it's the price of a game console and can do so much more! Amazing, great, wonderful, all those things. Microsoft is toast, their stranglehold on the PC is broken.

"BSD Linux"

[karmawarrior]

Apparently Lindows is based on BSD Linux. Major misprint or what people have been asking for for a while (BSD/Linux would be BSD userland + Linux kernel, as opposed to GNU/Linux which is GNU OS + Linux kernel)?

It does answer the licencing questions - I recall Apple saying that the reason why BASH wasn't shipped as the Mac OS X shell was because it would then become a major component of the operating system and arguably the GPL licence would then apply to the entire distribution.

OTOH, it could be a typo.

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[quantaman]

The problem is that from what most of us have heard Lindows isn't exactly ready to be the champion that takes on windows with the masses. If Lindows is still as raw as we've all heard, the non-geeks who buy these machines will expect to essentially get a cheap Windows machine, when it doesn't work as advertised they are going to brand all Linux distros as cheap Windows knock-offs that don't work. This is exactly the image that many /.ers hate the most. This isn't just snobbery, we're essentially trying to marginalize a group because we suspect they may soon misrepresent us in ways we don't want to be represented. It isn't the Wal-Mart shoppers fault, many of them might catch on and have fall in love with linux. However unfortunatly but due to their ignorance about computers will probably end up just as unwilling particapents in a beta test for an OS that doesn't sell itself exactly as it is.

as someone who grew up in arkansas

[gimpboy]

for those of you who dont know walmart is a company that spawned from arkansas. the same place who brought you bill clinton. while i'm sure many of you are enjoying yourselves making fun of the ``rednecks'', consider the following:

many of you shop there.

currently the waltons (son's and daughters of sam so to speak) have more money than gates and ellison combined.

all this was made by a redneck without a college education. hell i dont even think he had a highschool education.

it's nice to see that by getting educated and growing up in a civilized society you all (y'all if you like) have become tolerant understanding people forgoing prejudice towards your fellow human beings.

Re:as someone who grew up in arkansas

[dillon_rinker]

Bentonville (the home and headquarters of WalMart) is the only county seat to have a statue of a Confederate soldier in the town square.

Re:as someone who grew up in arkansas

[zsazsa]

all this was made by a redneck without a college education. hell i dont even think he had a highschool education.

Sam Walton graduated from the University of Missouri, Columbia in 1940.

Guess what school I go to.

Ian

Re:as someone who grew up in arkansas

[gimpboy]

i was under the impression sam had a less than adiquate education. thanks for the correction.

Re:as someone who grew up in arkansas

[DanThe1Man]

Sam Walton graduated from the University of Missouri, Columbia in 1940.
Guess what school I go to.

i was under the impression sam had a less than adiquate education.

Haha, that is the funniest flame bait and subtle insult I have read in awhile.

Re:as someone who grew up in arkansas

[DanThe1Man]

I don't think shipping jobs over seas is a bad thing. It creats jobs for people who really need them, and the money (less of, no dought) would go a lot further in their contury then ours.

The workers in the US should start their own company, go back to school (student loans are abundent), or apply for a better job then a factory worker. This incurages the US to become a stronger country, while helping other countries.

The enviromental concerns are at par with any other company that causes a lot of traffic. This should be handled by good city planners. The thing about them storing pesticides and stuff outside should be taken care of. You think they could find some room inside, they are a WAREHOUSE.

As for closeing of local shops. If they sell unique items, they should still be able to attract business. I don't feel so sorry for the ones that are offering the same old crap and higher prices (I know they charge more because they pay more for lower quenities of items)

So, what else am I missing? Why shouldn't I shop for 'Always low prices, always.'?

Re:as someone who grew up in arkansas

[unitron]

Do you mean the only county seat in Arkansas? 'Cause there are plenty of Confederate memorials in front of plenty of courthouses elsewhere.

Re:as someone who grew up in arkansas

[unitron]

If, as you say, a CompUSA computer tech is the absolute bottom of the job food chain, there would be a CompUSA where I live.

Of course we do have a Wal-Mart.

$300 Duron...no FDD

[MsGeek]

And at $299 for the Duron 850mhz model, who can't afford one of these.

One little detail about that Duron (although it's probably not a big detail) is that they left out the floppy drive on that model.

With bootable CD-ROMs and networks not having a floppy is not a big problem, but for the first-timer this could be a big problem.

Oh yeah, Fry's is entering the $300 market soon...actually sub-$300. They will be putting out a Celeron 1GHz machine, preloaded with ThizLinux, whatever the fsck that is. They're just waiting on the shipment at this point. And this one *has* a floppy drive.

Actually it would be better if they all did preloads with Lycoris Linux but still, it is a good thing that Walmart has the guts to do this. So far, Microsoft hasn't complained. I think they realize that even an 800lb. Gorilla like MS has to pick their battles.

Re:$300 Duron...no FDD

[Amazing Quantum Man]

preloaded with ThizLinux, whatever the fsck that is

DistroWatch Answers.

Re:$300 Duron...no FDD

[asv108]

With bootable CD-ROMs and networks not having a floppy is not a big problem

True, but if you need to flash a bios, it can be a pain in the ass.

Re:$300 Duron...no FDD

[Yottabyte84]

Better to "leave you clothes on" anyway, I had a properly done BIOS update turn my COMPAQ Armada V300 into a boat anchor, the damn thing WON'T EVEN TURN ON. Yes, I installed the right update, no, I didn't intterupt it, it clamed to have compleated suessfuly. And then on my desktop system, I haven't had problems with usin custom BIOS images to change the system boot logo.

Re: Is it ready?

[jonadab]

One of the fundamental principles of software
develpment is that you can't find all the
sticky problems until you get real users
using the thing.

Consider Mozilla: progress was slow until
the 0.9.x milestones, then all of a sudden
it was good enough that a lot of users who
tried it liked it enough to start using it
as their regular browser, and whammo, the
bugs started dropping like flies, and it
shaped up incredibly in just a few weeks.

Same thing with Linux. Technical excellence
aside, it was nowhere near ready for the
typical end user until quite recently, but
as the user base spreads beyond developers
to end users, amazing strides are made in
its _usability_ for end users. There's a
breaking point somewhere, where enough
users adopt a piece of software that the
bugs show up and can be fixed. You don't
reach that point without early adopters.

Re:Here's a link to walmart's online store..

[hether]

Well that's because you searched for Lindows. Most regular shoppers will not do that. If you follow the link in the original story, you do get an explanation. Same if you click on the link for Computers in the electronics part of the site or navigate through the site in any manner. Its only when you search that you don't get the description.

These computers do not ship with Microsoft Windows. They ship with an exciting new UNIX based Operating System (OS) named Lindows. This exciting new OS delivers the stability of UNIX with the ease of Windows and the ability to run most Microsoft programs. These computer systems are a perfect low cost alternative to computers preloaded with Microsoft Windows

Still I see your point that consumers are sometimes so stupid that they won't understand.

Wow, Windows Costs $99 !!!!

[pjrc]

I've always wondered what Windows really costs. Looks like you save $99 buying the same hardware with Lindows:

$498.00 - Microsoft Windows, 1.3 GHz Celeron, 128 Meg RAM, 40 GB hard drive 52X cdrom, ethernet, modem

$399.00 - Lindows, 1.3 GHz Celeron, 128 Meg RAM, 40 GB hard drive 52X cdrom, ethernet, modem

Did I miss anything? The Windows machine mentions something about the graphics card, but it's "integrated" (not an AGP card), so both machines probably have the same video on the motherboard?? Is that a reasonable assumption?

Looks like there's a reason Bill's so rich...

Do they really need Windows?

[i_am_nitrogen]

I live in a redneck/hick town. I don't think of myself as better than my neighbors. I have sold computers to several of them, though. All of them want nothing more than to run an old version of Quicken to manage the books for the dairy, Word Perfect 6.0 to type letters to their grand kids, and Printshop to make birthday cards. There were a few exceptions: some of them had kids who wanted to play Star Craft and Half-Life, and one person needed to run the latest QuickBooks to handle payroll for his construction business. Most people can do anything they already do in Windows, with Linux.

The problem for me, however, was that I was 16/17 at the time I was selling these computers, living at home. I got all my referrals from my mom, since she knew the people. She has seen me coding in a Linux console, and after seeing that, started spreading anti-Linux FUD to all the people she was referring to me ("He'll build you a great computer, but he'll try to put Linux on it -- don't let him do that."). I found this out when people started specifically asking NOT to have Linux on their machines (though I've never sold a Linux machine to anyone). Star Craft and Half-Life both run under WineX.

What's the point of this rambling? If you are young and live at home, make sure your parents don't spread Linux FUD, and if you are older, make sure your wife doesn't spread Linux FUD, and if you're old and single, well, get out more. But the real moral of the story is: most people don't need Windows, or even the apps they're used to. Give them a few of their staple apps, such as Star Craft, Quicken, Word, and then fill in the rest with Open Source software, and slowly convert them away from their staple apps (and convert game programmers away from their staple OS). This is exactly what Lindows is doing.

Some people think Lindows will take over Linux and become a Linux monopoly, others think Lindows will just act as the gateway into a new world of software. Whatever. See above for the point of this disjointed, redundant rambling.

Lycoris @ Fry's

[MsGeek]

I spoke too soon...maybe those sub-$300 Linux Celerons at Fry's won't come with Lycoris, but you can pick up a copy there soon.

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[13Echo]

Actually, I am proud that the company is the first large retail chain to have the balls to sell such a product. Nobody else would stand in MS's way in such a situation. Who knows how successful these things will be, but at least they are taking a chance.

And regardless of weather or not Wal-Mart caters primarily to the Apalachian crowd, Linux can be a good alternative for everybody in the right situation. That is how it was intended to be... Free, and available to everyone. As a matter of fact, it looks like Lindows is shipping on these PCs at no extra cost. Last time I checked, the minimum was still at the $400 price tag.

Re:Computer techs are already a dime a dozen.

[mrm677]

I went back for my M.S. degree 10 months ago, and have another year or two to go. Do you consider me "smart/lucky"?

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[13Echo]

Oh wait. Looks like they now have a nice little Duron 800 for $299. How can you beat that, with or without an OS?

Re:The next version of MS Office won't run on Lind

[jedidiah]

I wouldn't be any more confident with Office2k running on Win2k. MSOffice has always been a little more buggy than any other competitor going all the way back to Win16 days.

Rednecks

[Vodak]

While I am gad to see that nonMicrosoft platforms are being sent out to people that would otherwise not use them I am offended by the way this submitted used sent this article.

This elitist tone used in the article is not only common with Slashdot regulars but with the Open Source community in general. If the community is to grow outside it's niche bounds there will be the need for some people to get the "US Vs the ignorant" out of their way of thinking.

Re:windows

[lpontiac]

... the posts in here have been from Linux elitists ... Linux hasn't gotten much market share in the desktop market - the people who write it don't WANT average people to use it ...

Do you honestly think many, if any, of the "elitists" making critical comments here write and contribute code to the kernel, or other programs that appear in distributions?

Equating Slashbots and open source coders is about as fair as equating Walmart shoppers and rednecks.

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[LinuxHam]

I don't care for the use of the word geek, so I use nerd. Compare the dictionary.com versions of the definitions of each, and see which one is lacking a particular sense.

From dictionary.com

nerd:
A foolish, inept, or unattractive person.
A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.

geek:
A person regarded as foolish, inept, or clumsy.
A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
A carnival performer whose show consists of bizarre acts, such as biting the head off a live chicken.

So nerds are ugly and geeks are clumsy and do weird things. Otherwise they're exactly identical. Sorry bud, I'm not throwing out my "geek" shirt from ThinkGeek because you would prefer that I consider myself ugly instead of eccentric.

Blessed are the geeks for they shall inherit the Earth. And no, I didn't customize my sig just for you.

Re:OS X: Xerox PARC

[t0qer]

Oh and I guess Apple were real innovators when they stole their UI from xerox

Too bad it is from Wal-Mart

[Archfeld]

those guys make Nike, or M$, look like altruists. I've already sworn off Wal-Mart and Sam's club.
Just a little bit of research will bring the Wal-Mart horror stories to light.

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[ocbwilg]

The Wal-Mart crowd? I shop at Wal-Mart regularly and there is one in the suburb that I live in. I'd hardly consider myself or any of my neighbors to be rednecks, hillbillies, or "billy joe bobs". Sure, Wal-Mart had it's roots in rural communities in Arkansas, but they've gotten as big as they are by offering brand-name products at reasonable prices. They still sell Gamecubes and PS2s and Xboxes just like Best Buy. They've increased their marketshare and presence in urban areas and more upscale suburbs because they offer a good value proposition, just like any other store would. They are no longer the niche player that is only present in small town USA.

one more time:

[hawk]

The valid trademark is *not* "windows," a word in common usage in this context at the time microsoft first shipped a product using this name, but "Microsoft Windows," as microsoft used to take great pains to point out.

hawk

Wow, I'm actually pretty impressed

[IamTheRealMike]

Last time I looked into Lindows, I wasn't that impressed. Though I didn't actually try it, I read up about it and flicked through the screenshots.

My, how things changed. They've given their website a total facelift, which now looks MUCH more professional. Stuff like this:

Clicking the "Install LindowsOS" button will automatically copy over your Outlook® email so that it can be read by the Mail program in LindowsOS. It will also copy over your bookmark files so they can still find your favorite web sites with the Browser included with LindowsOS. (Your Outlook mail and bookmarks will remain in their current location as well. Only a copy is moved to LindowsOS.) If you have a lot of mail or bookmarks, this may take a few seconds. Then you'll get a screen informing you that you need to restart your computer.

.. impresses the hell out of me. It's a nice touch, and solves a problem many windows users will find as they transition. Also, their Click-And-Run program (cheesy name, good idea) is another nice touch: one of the best things about Linux is the huge amount of free software to get you started, minimizing transition costs. But how to get to it? Click'n'run is apt for non-geeks. It even sends you an email once it's done giving you some tips for your new program.

Sometimes I think they've taken the Windows clone approach too far. It can (apparently) run IE/Notes and Word, which is impressive, but there will be things, especially games, that it'll barf on. Also the fact that it runs as root all the time is just a cop-out, they could have used something like kdesu to make that unnecessary. Ah well.... a good attempt though, I'm glad somebodies doing it.

Re:Wow, I'm actually pretty impressed

[mikethegeek]

".. impresses the hell out of me. It's a nice touch, and solves a problem many windows users will find as they transition. Also, their Click-And-Run program (cheesy name, good idea) is another nice touch: one of the best things about Linux is the huge amount of free software to get you started, minimizing transition costs. But how to get to it? Click'n'run is apt for non-geeks."

In theroy, it looks like a great idea... I've loved the "urpmi" function in Mandrake, but this is even better. Indeed, Mandrake will have to raise their own level to meet Lindows's challenge of their spot as the top desktop Linux... Competition is good.

It's about time someone decided to integrate Wine. It's not perfect, but it enables some apps to be run.

"Sometimes I think they've taken the Windows clone approach too far. It can (apparently) run IE/Notes and Word, which is impressive, but there will be things, especially games, that it'll barf on. Also the fact that it runs as root all the time is just a cop-out, they could have used something like kdesu to make that unnecessary. Ah well.... a good attempt though, I'm glad somebodies doing it."

If Linux is to suceed on the desktop, it has to grow outside Geekdom. Those are negative points, to be sure. But, remember, underneath it all, it's Unix. Which means a tinkerer has far more lattitude with a Lindows machine, which has a REAL Unix CLI underneath, than they can with XP.

Re:Wow, I'm actually pretty impressed

[IamTheRealMike]

In theory, it looks like a great idea... I've loved the "urpmi" function in Mandrake, but this is even better. Indeed, Mandrake will have to raise their own level to meet Lindows's challenge of their spot as the top desktop Linux... Competition is good.

Well I only ever played with urmpi for a few mins, and all I found was that it had an ugly (imho) GTK interface and wouldn't let me upgrade Mozilla (it wouldn't let me override dependancy failures).

One thing that as I browse this catalog I'm getting a bit concerned about is.... there's too much software on Click-and-Run. Like Pingus for instance. Now Pingus is a mighty fine Lemmings clone, but it's no longer supported, and last time I tried to play it, I got a background that said 404 Texture not found - basically it's not finished. A lot of stuff in this database is like that - us geeks aren't troubled by this, and I'm often willing to use software that seems to be in a never ending beta test if it gets what I want done. To a standard Windows user though, seeing 20 programs that all do the same thing poorly won't impress them: Lindows would be better to select the best of breed as it were, rather than try to impress with sheer weight of software.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[Alsee]

who thinks is actually is Windows

Apologies, I shouldn't have said "Genuine Windows", I should have said "Genuine Microsoft Windows".

This issue has been decided in court. Microsoft Windows is a trademark of Microsoft. Windows is a generic term. Lindows is a trademark of... ummm... someone else (chuckle).

If a salesman or anyone else indicates that Lindows is Microsoft Windows then they are at fault. Complain to the store. Get a refund. Sue them if need be. It is not Lindow's responsibility.

P.S.
impressed if Lindows actually ran MOST Windows software
Yes, exactly what it does/doesn't run is an interesting question.

-

The included software

[interstellar_donkey]

From the list:

Software includes Mail, Word Processor, Web Browser/ File Manager, Address Book, Calculator, CD Player, MP3 Player, Microsoft? PowerPoint? Viewer, Microsoft? Word? Viewer, Microsoft? Excel? Viewer, Image Viewer

I love the generic names for the software. Do you use Word or Word Perfect? No, I use 'Word Processor'.

And the question marks after Microsoft... is that because they don't know and are asking the customer, or because it's not immediatly known if it's a microsoft product the purchasing guys put in these things.

Interview possibility

[ocie]

Perhaps Slashdot should interview the president of Wal-Mart.

Re:Interview possibility

[suss]

Perhaps Slashdot should interview the president of Wal-Mart.

President of Walmart: Slash-who?

yeah, but . . .

[hawk]

. . . if it wasn't mediocre, it would hardly be a replacement, now would it???

:)

hawk

Could be a Very Bad Thing

[Darth RadaR]

And you thought the $ales drones at Comp-USA were bad enough, I just can't imagine what tech support is going to be like from Wally-World especially when they're notorious for fscking over workers^W^W^W paying piss-poor wages. And you know that the hardware is going to be crap due to Wal-mart's notorious "lowest bidder, period" reputation.

<conspiracy_theory>

My paranoid self is thinking this might even be some sort of weird conspiracy crafted by Microsoft and Wal-Mart to completely discredit Linux by offering it to the unwashed masses who need a spellcheck to log in and installing it on the dodgiest hardware known to the planet and then blame all the problems on Linux instead of crap hardware and ignorance of computing. A few things to consider.

C'mon, a loaded up
AMD 850 for US$300?

Lindows, AFAIK, doesn't offer the source code, and could very well be clandestinely operated by Microsoft (which could explain Lindows ability to run Win programs)

This
lawsuit could very well be propaganda to fool the public in thinking these 2 forces are opposed to each other.

The default Lindows install could come with ftp, telnet, http, etc. all open, unsecured, and ready to r007, thus further damaging Linux's repuation.

Just wait till $consumer deals with file permissions... "What? Whaddaya mean I don't have permission to open that file!?! I own this computer and it's my property, dammit! No one tells me what to do with my property!!!"
</conspiracy_theory>

Okay, I'll stop before I start feeling the urge to make an aluminum foil helmet

parental Linux FUD (OT)

[No Such Agency]

Um, why did your mom think Linux was eeeeeeeeevill just from seeing you use it? Why would anyone? I don't understand. (kudos for recognizing that your users just need a basic box to DO things with, by the way!)

Re:parental Linux FUD (OT)

[i_am_nitrogen]

I don't understand either. I've tried showing my parents how to use it, and they just get frustrated and walk away. However, when I didn't tell them it was Linux, and I was just showing them how to watch a dvd by logging in as the DVD user, and to watch tv by logging in as the TV user, on the home theater machine I built them, my mom, sister, dad, brother, etc. all didn't seem to have a problem with that.

Only problem now is... the stupid Samsung DVD drive has major problems with 85% of dual layer discs (even though it says it supports them). My sister had a bunch of friends over to watch Harry Potter, and it hardlocked the system on chapter 18 (by that time, after spinning at full 12X DVD speed for over an hour, the DVD drive was at 120F as well.. the drive doesn't support spin limiting either).

Anyone know of a good DVD drive that supports dual layer discs, as well as spin limiting with hdparm -E? My cheap-as-crap can't-remember-the-brand 56X CD-ROM drive has full spin limiting support...

Yeah, like "Radio Shack sells UNIX" ten years ago

[dpbsmith]

About ten years ago I worked at a Fortune 500 company that made minicomputers with a proprietary OS and was starting to move into PC products hosted on XENIX.

The extent of UNIX penetration into the desktop mainstream was a topic of constant discussion

One day, Radio Shack announced that they would be selling UNIX-based systems. The announcement was widely carried as a news item in the trade press, often with deep-think commentary. Highly placed UNIX advocates within the company started circulating memos mentioning it, and in almost any conference-room discussion someone would say "It's all changed, haven't you heard, why even Radio Shack is selling UNIX now."

So I did a reality check.

About three months after the announcement, I walked into a Radio Shack. Not one of your mall stores, but one of the big Radio Shack Computer Centers or whatever they were called. I said I wanted to try out one of their UNIX systems hands-on, and I wanted a catalog showing what software they had for it.

After glad-handing me and assuring me that, yes, indeed, Radio Shack was backing UNIX to the hilt, they showed me their UNIX system.

Yes, they did have one.

It was a PC running XENIX. It was not turned on. They would not turn it on for me, because the only person who knew how to use it was a consultant who came in one day a week. There were no brochures, no sales material.

The only software catalog was their general PC software catalog, which had about 32 densely packed pages of (mostly) DOS-based software, several pages of Windows-based packages, and finally about four column-inches of UNIX offerings, most of which were UNIX itself. There were, I think, one or two Accounts Receivables packages and so forth.

It wasn't exactly untrue that Radio Shack was selling UNIX, but it certainly didn't mean what people thought it meant.

$299! $299 $299!

[Animats]

It's only $299! (Monitor and keyboard extra.) In the Wal-Mart world, that means a lot.

Lots of kids are going to be doing their homework on those boxes. This is Microsoft's greatest fear - OS price competition at retail.

Wal-Mart and its quality of products

[spunkykuma]

Now Wal-Mart has everything on selling crappy products, they even have Lindows on cheaply built PCs now!

Re:Backlash from Microsoft?

[mikethegeek]

"I'd love to know the following:
Has M$ sent the BSA to Wal-Mart headquarters to audit licenses?"

If they haven't... They will... But Wal-Mart is big enough to chew up and spit out even Microsoft, so that may be a place they don't want to go.

Other than the BSA stormtroopers, MS really has nothing they can do to Wal-Mart... They can't prohibit them from selling Windows, etc, because all they sell are THIRD PARTY PC's (not their own), and retail box copies of Windows on the shelf.

MS wouldn't even dream of taking their products off Wal-Mart shelves, it would cost them millions.

Microsoft doesn't LIKE this, to be sure, but I dont' see a helluva lot they can do about it. The BSA is the most likely option, because they are a "third party"

Yeah, right, that's like saying the RIAA is a third party, and not the stormtroopers of the big 5 record labels. As the BSA is of the largest software labels.

So much for the "Linux Populism" theory

[surfimp]

It's sort of depressing to see just how elitist/bourgeois/classist many of these comments are, especially those concerning these so-called "rednecks" who shop at Wal-Mart. I mean, isn't one of the "great things" about Linux, and GNU in general, the ideal that operating systems, software and information in general "want to be free"? Or that people shouldn't have to pay $100-400+ for a modern operating system? Or that Linux and Open Source software is revolutionary, capable of breaking the grasp that Microsoft holds over the CONSUMER market? So now you have Wal-Mart, a major retailer, offering complete machines with an OS and a number of useful applications at a price that is lower than the MSRP for the full version of Windows XP Pro. And rather than cheering about how this could potentially be a major opportunity for a Linux distribution to make signficant inroads with the CONSUMER market (remember the revolution?), many respondents have sought to portray the people who will purchase these systems as ignorant, foolish, uneducated, and/or intellectually inferior. Wow, what happened to all the populist ideals above?

Re:So much for the "Linux Populism" theory

[kirkjobsluder]

Am I only one wondering why the parent post was moderated "flame bait" for pointing out much of the class bigotry present in this thread?

I mean sure it's easy to dismiss buyers in rural areas as just a bunch of ignorant yokels unable to RTFM or even the description on the box to realize that they are not getting a pre-packaged Windows system with Microsoft Works. I think this is ignoring the fact that cottage industries and agricultural producers are increasingly relying on information technology in order just to survive in the marketplace. This is a sector that is pioneering GIS and GPS applications for agriculture while universities are dicking around with tracking students. There is a huge market out there of farmers and craftspeople who do everything on a shoestring staff (or even solo) and a shoestring budget from finding the cheapest supplier, to tracking inventory, accounting, quality control, marketing, and shipping. This is a group of potential users that strongly values performance, reliability, and value. Perhaps more importantly they are a group of users quite capable of fixing their own problems.

So certainly, I can see a huge market for not only Linux but also mysql, Apache, and openoffice in the rural areas served by Wal-Mart.

Re:So much for the "Linux Populism" theory

[Kupek]

Okay, so it was a classist joke.

This will backfire

[phpdeb]

Remember when Mexico was supposed to switch over to Linux, or something like that, and they screwed it up. Now MS uses this as a reason to not use Open Source Software, it fails implementation. Of course, all software that is poorly implemented will fail, but that's not the software's fault.

Now that Walmart is selling these Lindows machines I see a similar problem. Joe User buys a computer, but he can't run half the apps his friend can run, like games. He takes the computer back to Walmart, gets his money back and swears the Lindows sucks. So now in his mind Lindows sucks and anything that sounds like Lindows (i.e. Linux) sucks too. After a couple of months Walmart will get tired of giving people their money back and stop selling computers with Lindows installed. Now it's not just a failure on Walmart, but on Lindows which in turn is a failure for Linux and the Open Source community.

Hence MS now has more fuel for their fud campaigns. I don't see this as a winning situation for Linux or OSS.

Most Americans shop at Walmart and they will sell a lot of these computers. This really looks bad to me, really bad.

On the other hand, I don't really care if Linux "beats" MS. I like my Debian whether Joe Shmoe does or not.

Re:This will backfire

[Tony-A]

Backfire? Nah, not likely. It's a $300 computer not a $3000 computer.
Microsoft's attempted fud campaigns are more likely to backfire.
Walmart will sell a lot of these computers. Next year they will sell a lot more. Walmart also sells a lot of calculators. If Walmart is selling a useable product at a reasonable price they should do just fine. Whether it's bare or Lindows or AOLinux or Debian or Redneck Linux isn't going to make a lot of difference.

Obligatory cluster post

[Provocateur]

Whut about a be-yow-wulf cluster of them thar machines, Mary-Jo-Jim-Bob?

Whut? Dang you Billie Bob yew startin to sound like some dot-commie-city-slicker

Re:Wal-Mart demographic

[jonadab]

> About the crack about rednecks buying Lindows...what do you think
> the average demographic of a Wally world online customer is? I'm
> willing to bet it's not ma and pa kettle in podunk Arkansas.

College students and suburbanites mostly, I think...

But the point of the original redneck remark was that people
who buy computers at Wall-Mart are not tech-savvy users, and
that's true, as a general rule. Tech-savvy users buy their
computers from small shops that build them, or they build
them themselves, or they shop around. In any case they
usually don't buy the true bargain-basement stuff, because
they're planning to upgrade components as necessary and keep
the thing running for several years, or if not it's because
they can afford a new (nice) computer every year or so.
These are power users.

People who buy computers at Wall-Mart are end users.

These are overgeneralisations, of course, but in general
they are mostly true. Redneck is not the word I would
have chosen, but the point made is valid. Think about
droves of people buying these things who previously
were not aware that Apple computers don't use Windows
and had never heard of Linux, much less anything more
obscure than that, and have no idea that Windows XP
is based on NT ("huh?") rather than the consumer Windows
line. Whether that makes them rednecks or just regular
people in some field other than IT, the point is that
they're not computer geeks. They're end users.

End user awareness that there are various operating
systems to choose from is a good thing.

Re:No Score +1 Bonus

[uigrad_2000]

And now someone's trying to beat you down 'cause it's Offtopic (it'll grow back)

And, I suppose this message will be hit too. Oh well. Karma is cheap nowdays!

I've always thought the decision to have "off-topic" count as negative was bad. Anyone who reads many newsgroups knows that the best threads usually start hidden inside another unrelated thread!

It is my duty, then, to inform all who can read this, that you can change which mods are positives, and which are negatives. I finally decided to make "off-topic" a +1 for when I'm reading about 2 months ago. I've been extremely pleased with the selection of posts it brings up to the surface! Everyone should at least try it sometime.

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[King_TJ]

Yeah, personally - I'd rather see a popular/common standard Linux distro like Mandrake or RedHat pre-loaded on these type of inexpensive PCs and sold as what it is, Linux.

I can already see the whole "Lindows" product name confusing people. "Umm, excuse me sir? Can you tell me what this Lindows machine is all about? I guess this is a clone of Windows. Does it run everything 100% compatible?" (To which the average Wal-Mart clerk will either respond "I don't know. I think it's supposed to." or "No, it's like the old days of computers - when stores like Radio Shack sold "PC compatibles" that were a lot cheaper than IBM but only ran about half of the programs properly."

In the end, these things probably won't sell very well to their target market. Instead, college students on a tight budget who already are Linux-savvy will grab them on clearance sales.

Re:Hehe... Root Redneck

[orkysoft]

Rootnecks?

Do the Math guys

[RoshanCat]

Walmart.com contributes to less than 0.1% of Walmart's 220Billion revenue, of which less than 4% comes from PC sales, of which maybe around 20% comes Microteck PC sales, of which maybe 50% come from OS-less/Lindows sales of which 80% may actually have Linux/Windows

Doing a quick & dirty math, I get a high end figure of
220,000 * 0.001 * 0.04 * 0.2 * 0.5 * 0.8

or 0.7 million dollars in sales or maybe around 1450 PC's. For Linux those maybe huge numbers, but remember their are 600 Million PC's in the world

Put it another way, Microtek doesn't sell any more number of PC's than an average white-box seller

Time for reality check & perspective

Roshan

Re:Do the Math guys

[Manitcor]

Where are you getting these numbers? I'm sure that the 0.1% for Walmart.com is most likely available from their shareholders packet however the other figures being presented with the word maybe makes me think that these numbers are made up.

Also keep in mind that Wal-Mart also sells PC's in their retail stores so its not just Walmart.COM (the link to Walmart.COM was just to show the pricing I'm sure).

What would really be interesting is to get solid numbers on Wal-Mart's PC sales across the board with breakdowns based on model and software load. I'm not sure how many people would actually buy a PC from Wal-Mart. Games yes, software yes, but I think when it comes to the major home electronics Wal-Mart most likely lags behind those like Best Buy, Fry's, and CompUSA by far. Of course I don't have any numbers so this is just pure conjecture. We will most likely never see such number because breakdowns like that aren't even available in shareholders reports.

Re:Do the Math guys

[WNight]

That's an example of a SWAG. It's like a WAG (Wild Assed Guess) sort of. A WAG would just say "WalMart can't sell more than 1000, maybe 2000 computers online", a SWAG would pick a few numbers, plug them into an equation and "prove it".

Re: WalMart isn't destroying America - you are!

[King_TJ]

Seriously, the people spreading around this anti-capitalistic B.S. are the ones really destroying America.

People do vote with their dollars, and obviously, the majority are voting for large chains like Circuit City, WalMart, McDonalds, and many others. All of these began as a small business-owner's dream. (Or wait, did you think McDonalds just appeared one day with millions of restaurants and billions of dollars in advertising revenue?)

Now, I'll be the first to say that part of being a "smart shopper", "educated consumer", or whatever term you prefer - is learning to buy from the stores with the best prices AND service. That means when I need something specialized (like computer parts), I'd rather deal with a store that knows computers. Nonetheless, I shop at WalMart for misc. items. (I went there with my wife 2 days ago and we bought a couple of cake pans, some business-casual clothes for her to wear to her new job, and a couple baby items.)

Cheaper is better

[GunFodder]

In my experience I have seen people put up with stuff that is much worse if it is cheaper in any way.

Re:The next version of MS Office won't run on Lind

[glitch!]

Even if you are right, the next version of MS Office won't run on Lindows anyway.

You may be right, but it would be very cool if the Microsoft divisions followed the footsteps of IBM. "Don't tell us not to support that other OS! Our customers want X and your OS preference policy is costing us sales!"

Re:the "wal-mart crowd"

[surfcow]

... instead of being so damn smug. Get off your high horse and join the movement, or shut the f*** up.

Um, your equine mount seems a touch elivated too, bucko. So people found a little humor in the idea. Big deal. We find humor in lots of ideas. Everyone seems to welcome it. No one is calling for eugenics or ethnic cleansing here, just having a chuckle, like they do with every other article on /. Lighten up and consider decaf, kay?

=brian

this article discusses some of these points

[simpl3x]

(http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.07/Myth.htm l)

and here is a nice little quote: "Consider a tale of two companies. Wal-Mart is among the most efficient corporations in the world today. In fact, a late-2001 McKinsey Global Institute study of the boom found that "Wal-Mart directly and indirectly caused the bulk of the productivity acceleration" in its category. How? Information technology, for the most part. Wal-Mart uses IT to help it store and transport goods more efficiently. (You'll never find a half-full pallet in a Wal-Mart.) It relies on forecasting tools to ensure that there are never too few or too many employees on the floor at any one time. It encourages suppliers to stock the stores themselves, using an elaborate data interchange system to make sure suppliers know when inventories are running low. And it takes advantage of economies of scale by building stores in a hub-and-spoke pattern around giant distribution centers. As a result, Wal-Mart has become one of the largest companies in the world while earning returns on capital that are the envy of its peers. By contrast, its competitor Kmart has been plagued with stock-outs and is hooked on sales and markdowns."

Re:this article discusses some of these points

[Sabalon]

You'll never find a half-full pallet in a Wal-Mart

Yeah...but on some items, I find them out of stock more often than best buy - which says a lot.

Re:openoffice?

[dontkillme]

Lindows is just repackaged debian with a nice front end to apt-get. From what I hear they're making OpenOffice available on their click-n-run warehouse in the near future, but the standard linux version of OpenOffice from openoffice.org runs fine.

Cheap cluster?

[macemoneta]

Heck, at $299 each, It might be fun to pick a few of these up to play with (or even actually do work).

Re:Wal-Mart demographic

[Sabalon]

Yeah...tech-savy poeple may build their own, but unless you live in a cave, chances are you know non-tech-savy people.

And once they find out that you are, they will most likely ask for advice when buying a new computer.

So in a way, it's in wal-marts best interest to make sure that even the tech-savy people will recommend the Microtel's instead of "Dude...get a dell."

Then again last time someone asked my opinion, they didn't listen and got yanked. Best Buy salesman actually sold them virus software when they had the same software at home already on their now-very-dead computer.

This will never work

[Frobozz0]

Lindows/Linux, whatever you want to call it... it will never be a desktop enviroment for more than a sliver of people. Furthermore, any hardware that costs $300 is useless for anything other than Palm-Pilot type tasks.

They'll sell a mediocre amount of PC's with Lindows, and it will do jack squat for the Linux and/or Linux gaming community. It'll also confuse the consumer, which is an utter moron when it comes to purchasing hardware or software-- especially at a WalMart. What it may do, is force PC makers who sell Windows to rethink their strategy. They're being bullied into selling Windows, and it costs them big bucks.

Don't get me wrong, here. I like WalMart. I like the idea of a cheap, usable computer. I don't dislike the average person's reasons for buying a computer... but this will utterly fail. Linux is the polar opposite of a beginner's OS.

here's why.

[geekoid]

Wal-mart will only buy products if they can get them less then other retailers. MS will not give them a price "break".
Point in fact, walmaert has ahistory of red penciling the compaines they buy there products for, and has made some of them sell to walmart at less then cost to manufacture. That means the manufacturer must find a way to lower there costs, usually be paying there workerer in non-US markets less.

Re:here's why.

[mikefoley]

their, their

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[colmore]

with the Walmart demographic, that might be a serious problem.

We should start testing Deerhunter and such on Lindows and Wine!

Are they allowed to call it UNIX?

[sheldon]

UNIX is a trademark of the Open Group.
http://www.unix-systems.org/

Lindows isn't registered as having anything to do with UNIX, so why is Wal-Mart advertising it as such?

Besides I'd think they would get more name recognition using the name Linux.

But you're right. The minute this system won't install and run Brittany Spears Dance Club Party... it'll get upgraded to Windows XP.

Time for the geeks to step up to the plate.

[geekoid]

This could potential be great, but people who expect it to be exactly like Windows will be confused. If you know somebody who buys one of these, offer your time help them transition.

If you are in a LUG near a walmart, try to get the local walmart to allow you to post your meeting times so the people will have an avenue to help with the transition.

This is the only way something Open will get eyeballs. It is are PR and Marketing path. If you want Linux to be a copetitor to MS, then please try to help.

Re: WalMart isn't destroying America - you are!

[geekoid]

"Now, I'll be the first to say that part of being a "smart shopper", "educated consumer", or whatever term you prefer - is learning to buy from the stores with the best prices AND service. "

even if they use slave labor?
even if the fire people for saying the word union?
even if the set people up, then fire them because they said something negative about the store?
even if it is considred one of the worse places to work for?
even if there insrance cost the employees almost as much as they make?
even if the define full time as 24 hours a week so people will take 2 years to become elligible?
even if they go into a town, charge less for all there products then the local merchants, then close down, leaving people no option but to drive 35 miles to the next city so they can shop at the only store left, walmart?

Man, I hope that baby you bought close for has more prinicples then you.

I almost bought a couple...

[TheSHAD0W]

I'm in the market for a couple of cheap web-serving boxes, and strongly considered buying these machines. The price is certainly right, they're pre-built (I'm lazy and hate building from scratch), and I'd be certain drivers for Linux would already be available for all the hardware. Hell, they'd already be installed and configured! A little security work, install Apache, and voila! It's not NetBSD, but it'd be workable.

The only thing that stopped me was that these machines were slightly too low-end for me. The $500 unit with the Athlon XP1800+ would've worked nicely. The main problem is the default hard drive, a 40GB, 5400 RPM clunker. If I'd had the option to upgrade to a faster drive, I'd've grabbed 'em.

Re:FLAMEBAIT?!?!?!!?

[NanoGator]

One thing I've noticed is that Walmart has a way of attracting businesses around it. I've seen two Walmart's appear, only to have a myriad of business materialize around it. It creates an attractive location for other businesses to arrive.

Does it balance out? I dunno. Even if the stuff sold is run by sweatshops, there is still the matter of selling and maintaining things.

In any case, I doubt that debating it on Slashdot is going to deliver anybody to concessions. However, I'm not willing to boycott them over running sweatshops. Why? Because everything I hear is propoganda, and I never trust that type of info. There's two sides to every story.

If anybody can recommend a good source of unbiased info on this topic, I'd really appreciate it.

No, it's not off topic.

[NanoGator]

Lots of people were willing to boycott Blizzard over their treatment of BnetD, why is not buying a PC at Walmart different?

People here want to take a stand for the greater good. If Walmart is doing unethical stuff, are you willing to buy their Lindows PC's?

Re:windows

[ceejayoz]

'tis a good point, I apologize for my overgeneralization in my original post. I think a lot of people do see the elitism on sites like Slashdot and get a bit turned off to the whole thing...

Very tempting.

[talks_to_birds]

Right now it's a toss-up between the $399.00 box with a 1.3ghz Duron, 128mb ram (throw in an extra 256mb stick for $60.00), 40gb hdd, onboad ethernet, (throw out the modem..), and speakers,

or...

A PS-2 with the Linux kit put on...

Damn it.

Decisions, decisions.

hmm..

t_t_b

Yes, except for the fact that No

[cybercuzco]

From the lindows.com faq:

What Windows® applications will it run? Our goal is to run all Windows® software, however, that's an ambitious objective that will take time to achieve. Soon, LindowsOS users can expect to run a host of popular Windows® software titles. We'll make available a database of known useable applications in the near future. Watch as the list grows and we further enhance our Windows® compatibility features in the coming months. Stay tuned to the developments by joining our mailing list.

Smart

[Pig Hogger]

Wow! Now, instead of paying the microsoft tax, Wall-Mart will pocket it...

So what? Let them buy junk if they want.

[gdyas]

Screw the whackaloons who're too stupid to know what it is they're buying before they buy it.

Same goes for companies that want to use deception to sell their product.

The way I see it, both will get exactly what they deserve.

They also carry over 200 Linux books

[leighklotz]

Linux Books on WalMart.com

You guys just don't get it.

[Pollux]

I just cannot believe that you feel Walmart is doing this to "take a stab at selling Lindows computers." I'll tell you what this is about:

The almighty dollar.

Walmart does not care about Linux geeks clutching their little stuffed penguins and waving their "Open Source" flags. They do not care about someone who walks into a store to tell the tech department that they should sell machines with Linux on it. They care about money. They have always cared about money, and they always will care about money. They are the most efficient corporation in the whole world, and they are efficient because it makes money. Anyone who thinks that Walmart's #1 priority is not about money needs to take some courses in Economics, wake up, and smell the capitalism.

I've been working in the backstock rooms of Walmarts for three years now, and I've overheard the managers on quite a few occasions. Walmart demands cheap prices from their distributors. They're the #1 retailer in the US, so they have the power to do so. They lure distributors into their system by offering to sell thier product, then stab them in the back a year or two later and demand the product be cheaper, or they'll find someone else. This leads product manufacturers to use overseas labor and/or lower the quality of the product, all to stay buddies with Walmart. When you see the adds of Walmart lowering their prices, they can do so because its not their company that takes a hit in profits...it's the manufacturers that do.

I'm sure Walmart did the same thing with this Microtel company when they asked for computers. When Microtel was put under the gun to make a cheaper computer, I'm sure they cut every single corner. Just look at it from a $$$ perspective..."Hey Walmart, we got this OS that looks like Windows, runs like Windows, and can run %90 of Windows software, but we can put it on every machine for absolutely no charge!"...Walmart will say yes, because they now have a "Windows-ish" computer that sells for $100 less than the competition.

And for those of you who say that there might be a high-return rate? Walmart doesn't care. If people return their computers, all Walmart has to do is box it up and ship it back to Microtel. The only loss that they take is paying some 16-year old $2 to take the time to box it back up and stick it on a pallet. It's certainly worth their time, considering that these computers are %10-%20 cheaper than the competition. If it fails, Walmart returns the computers, Walmart dumps Microtel and finds another manufacturer, and Microtel goes belly-up, and Walmart leaves unscathed. If it's a success, Walmart gets the credit.

Wake up and smell the dollar bills.

Re:You guys just don't get it.

[Reziac]

Since you're on the spot, a question: the WalMart here has a ZERO RETURNS policy on "electronics" (which means anything that is stocked in the computer/TV/Stereostuff section), even if it's DOA. I realise this is counter to *posted* policy, but that's how it is at this store. (I know about this because I was going to buy a nicely-discounted USR modem, but happened to ask the store manager about the return policy first, and as a result wound up going across the street and buying the same modem at Staples.)

Anyway, my question is.. what is WalMart's real policy about such stuff? how will local interpretations (such as the above) be handled?

As to the target market, I'm sure you're right -- see my post above where I speculate that WalMart is aiming at the eMachines market (which is a helluva lot more significant in total dollars spent than the gaming market).

Bikers Use Linux!

[Lethyos]

According to this story, it is indeed true that a large motorcycle gang uses Linux, and is infact willing to beat people up to protect Linux developers. From the story:

"I was running from the gun nuts and the police, and was running down the middle of the street in a panic. I thought it couldn't possibly get worse. I look up and it's a freakin million bikers wearing gang colors, coming right at me. The guy asks me why I'm runnin' and I tell him that they're trying to kill us because we're into Linux. This dude, the meanest, most evil-looking dude I ever saw in my life looks at me and says 'sheeeit, Linux? I run Red Hat on my linux box" and nods to the dude next to him. Turns out that the chief enforcer for the gang had met Linus Torvalds at Sturgis way back years ago. Linus turned him on to Red Hat, and he's been writing GNU software ever since."

I really don't get it...

[Steveftoth]

why every thinks that Office is the best suite.
I mean why? Why is that true, I think we are all brainwashed to think that. I really don't think that it's the best, just that there is no alternitive people are willing to use. Mostly because of the file format thing.

Going for the generic crowd

[indole]

Do you guys really think the walmart execs are so familiar with the free software movement that they're trying to support a non-windows OS for ethical reasons?

Lowly Employee 1: Sir, we can save money if we use this generic software instead of buying licenses from Microsoft...

Fat Cigar Smoking Exec: Money is fantastic!

Lowly Employee: Well this Red Hat Linux looks pretty strong and has both large user base and solid support. We also have this beta OS that can use a couple of windows applications if users dont mind absurdly complex configurations and constant failing of programs... its called Lindows...

Fat Cigar Smoking Exec: Lindows sounds like Windows!

Lowly Employee: Ah... yes sir, it does...

Security?

[John Hasler]

Is Lindows still telling users to always log in as root and use no password?

Making a good impression..

[Chicane-UK]

Guess it depends on what you want to do on your PC.. but I can't see Lindows making as good an impression as the 'real mcoy' would make.

This isn't a kick at Lindows - I haven't tried it out yet, but I do really want to - and I really admire that they have had the guts to have a go at a project like this..

Its just that for the average 'redneck user', Lindows just wont be Windows. You wont be able to play all your games, and you wont be able to run all your apps.. I wish it was possible to have perfect cross compatability but hey-ho..

It'll be interesting to see what happens though..

Stupid moderation AGAIN!

[NanoGator]

Okay, so my response to the flamebait challenge here was modded down as redundant. Whoever modded me down apparently didn't see that other people, though they don't feel the same way I do about Walmart, disagreed with the moderation.

Let me explain something to you moderators who modded me down: Just because my opinion goes against the general flow, doesn't mean that it is flamebait or that I'm being a troll. It's called 'disagreeing'. I'm not sure where you guys are from, but in the USA it's perfectly okay to disagree on matters, even if the topic is controversial. Flamebait is when you say something intended to draw harsh replies. In my case, though it could have drawn flames, but it didn't. The fact that people responded kindly to it indicates that I am correct.

Here's an example of flamebait: "Linux sucks. Windows 2000 is so much better!"

Here's an example if disagreement: "I prefer Windows 2000 over Linux because I can do this, this, and that."

The difference is not that subtle. If you can reasonbly back up your points, like I did in my original post, then you're not trolling or creating flame bait.

As for being redundant: I don't see how this post could be considered redundant. That's definitely one of the wierder moderations I've had recently. This moderation was pretty retarded. Again, I'll point out that other people in this thread have expressed that the original moderation was bad. So what happens? My post challenging it is redundant.

*Sigh* Oh well, I doubt the moderator will look back at this post and give me some sort of explanation. Worse, I doubt I'll accept his answer. For the most part, moderations of my posts are pretty decent. This time, it was just lame.

This isn't about karma. This is about fairness.

Average consumera and Lindows

[hendridm]

For the price they want for the final version ($99 I believe), I wonder how this is going to fair with consumers. I mean, I see Lindows on the shelf for $99 and the Windows XP Upgrade for $99 which one are they going to choose?

Let's see, I can get 100% compatibility and the exact interface I'm used to for $99. Or, I can get something that is "close enough" for $99.

Me thinks the average consumer is going to go with the brand name they trust. Too bad it's Microsoft.

Re:Average consumera and Lindows

[hendridm]

Hmmm, you make a point, but I believe the rest of my argument still stands.

Off-topic, but I think Mac hardware is excellent. It's the operating system that is shit (even OS X - it has a great core but features an anti-productive GUI). I think Windows has a very productive GUI but has other problems associated with Microsoft. *sigh* No perfect OS I suppose.

I am very excited for LindowsOS, but at $99, I'm wondering if it is doomed to fail...

Lindows and WalMart (potential)

[gessleX]

All things have a potential for good or bad. Simply put.

If there is to be the software revolution for the consumer, the consumer is going to have to be the one to make the choice and must have the option readily available.

Desktop pre-installs of Lindows is doing just that. It is putting an alternative in front of the economic power base that must make the choice of acception or rejection.

Despite what it seems, marketing and product sales
is the one field that is controlled by the common person and not the high level wealth. Why else would you have millions paid for Nascar or motorbike sponsorships? Bus panels for public transit?

Potential harm to Linux on the whole? Limite in my views. As far as I understand, Lindows is being advertised not as Microsoft Windows or as a Linux distribution, but as a growing bridge between them.

This could very well be a wake up call to software manufacturers. Or it could very well be another software tombstone. Risk.

I have yet to try Lindows. But I would not that there would be proprietary workarounds for some of X's quirks.

Let's just see. Hey, after all, MSDOS and Windows
were built off of someone else's work. Look what we have now :).

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[rseuhs]

Well, I guess the Win32-part (aka Wine) part of Lindows is beta, I see no reason why the standard KDE/Linux part plus OpenOffice should be unstable.

And grandma doesn't play Max Payne anyway, so those who only need email/web/office will be set, IMO.

Rednecks drinking wine?

[Goonie]

Wherever you live, you must have a better class of redneck. Here it's GutRot Lager, or premix rocketfuel and Coke.

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[rseuhs]

This whole GNU and Linux is not Unix stuff is like saying a Ford is no car because it's no Mercedes-Benz (who invented the car).

Linux looks like Unix, it acts like Unix, it feels like Unix. It is Unix for all respects that matter.

Business Model?

[verbs_an_action_word]

http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_categories . hp Looks like they are planning to make a profit by subscription service. "All products free to Click-N-Run Wharehouse Members" Most new users to linux won't bother learning the traditional "configure-make-install" routine and I think the plan to take advantage of this.

Re:Great it is Wal-Mart

[Archfeld]

LOL when NIKE closes down a factory as UNSAFE, walmart moves in and slashes prices. They ARE THE WORST hands down as far as american corporations go on human abuse..NO QUESTIONS, try amnesty international for a decent source.

Re:Hehe... Root Redneck

[orkysoft]

To be more precise, the Roothat distribution :-P

Lindows runs AOL 7

[nutznboltz]

According to an artcle on NewsForge AOL runs on Wine 2.0.

Here is a screen shot with an AOL icon

Running AOL wins most of the user acceptance battle.

Re:The next version of MS Office won't run on Lind

[unitron]

So even if Windows gets killed deader than dead, MS Office and whatever keeps Microsoft alive, well, and wealthy?

There just ain't no justice.

Re:Lindows? Is it ready?

[unitron]

"Some say Office runs pretty well, excluding access, but I couldn't even get that to install."

They just said it runs most MS stuff, they didn't say anything about being able to install it. :-)

Likely not relevant to the intended market

[Reziac]

Actually, I suspect Walmart is going after the eMachines market, which was not aimed at gamers, but at middle-aged non-geeks who use a computer in a home-based business or for simple email and documents, or who may buy a second cheap computer for their kids' homework and chat habits. IOW it was not designed or sold as a gaming platform, but as an everyday usin' machine.

So I don't think games per se enter into it.

Considering Walmart's History...

[NeuroManson]

Every competitor they've faced down, including the once mighty Kmart, has been summarily wiped from the planet... Since they're marketing Lindows systems, which makes Microsoft their chief competitor, does that mean they'll take out MS next? Would seem incredibly ironic, considering both companies have shown dubious and questionable business practices...

So when that next war comes down, will /.ers be praising Microsoft, or Walmart?

-1, Offtopic - you stupid bastard

[Sean Clifford]

I don't think that many people really understand what Offtopic really is anyway. In a discussion, it's normal for it to weave and touch on different subjects, even to take off entirely into a different tangent. And while yes, a thread that branches off from the main topic of a discussion may be off-topic, it's not off-topic within that thread.

And you're right that there's often good stuff of value within that thread, tangentially related if at all. I'm going to give your suggestion a shot.

People who have a background in newsgroups seem to readily understand this distinction. Others don't. I was replying to a direct question and got tagged for it. That's really no big deal, though, because I've been moderated up for crap I didn't think was particularly insightful or interesting.

What a high Karma score really means is that people that what you've got to say is more important than background noise. However, as an earlier posted pointed out, it's a long hard struggle to rise above the noise in the first place (to get automagic score of 2) so people notice you, then the trip to 50 territory comes quickly.

Don't get me wrong, I think having some kind of moderation system is better than having dick. This one is far superior to anything else I've encountered (or can think of). No, it's not perfect, but it's not meant to be.

Oh, and off-topic to this thread, I'm gonna take a look at the Lindows PC offerings in my local Wal-Mart this afternoon. I'm glad to see that someone's willing to experiment (even if it is Wal-Mart), but I think it's doomed to fail because Wal-Mart isn't where you should go to buy computers - well, or anything else for that matter.

Re: WalMart isn't destroying America - you are!

[King_TJ]

Ok, let's break down your accusations and take a closer look at them.

Slave labor? How do you define this one? Slavery hasn't existed in the U.S. for over 100 years, in the form most commonly recognized. I assume you're referring to WalMart hiring illegal immigrants? That happens everywhere, and really - I believe larger chains simply get caught more often, having so many stores and employees total. I know of several "mom and pop" restaurants in town that hire illegal aliens and pay them below minimum wage too. Lots of people consider these establishments to be "upper class" places for fine dining, too.

Fired for merely saying "Union"? Fired for saying negative things about the store? Guess what? Most states in the U.S. support "at will" employment. Unless you can show discrimination based on age, sex, race, or religion - you can quite legally and easily be fired for *any* other reason. I can be fired just because my boss doesn't like my car, my hairstyle, even on the first day of work - before I get a chance to work even 1 minute. Check with a lawyer specializing in "wrongful termination" if you don't believe me.

It may well be considered "one of the worst places to work" - but they sure do have lots of employees despite that. I'm betting WalMart *never* held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to apply for a position there. In fact, my wife used to work at WalMart for a while. She actually said it was a good experience, other than one manager that started long after she was already employed - who started giving her a hard time. (She asked the previous manager if she could have the Xmas holdiday off, well in advance, and he agreed. The new manager didn't... so she quit.)

Insurance should always be optional. An employer can't force you to buy their insurance plan. If it's a bad deal, just look into other options. (The insurance plan where I worked really sucked big ones. Several people opted out and bought their own personal plan that worked out better for their particular situation.)

Moving into a town and undercutting the competition happens all the time, too. It's bound to happen eventually, if everyone else charges more than the items really cost to obtain. I don't fault WalMart for being competitive. If you're a small business going up against a giant like WalMart, you need to do your research and *compete*. If you can't beat their pricing, fine - beat them in other areas. Maybe offer real low-priced home delivery of household goods and groceries. Maybe offer vastly superior customer service, so people don't want to shop at WalMart. Maybe offer extended hours. Lots of WalMart shoppers only go there because everything else is closed for the night!

Motherboard Specs for $299 PC

[Milican]

I e-mailed Microtel Computer Systems and asked them what their hardware specs were for their SYSMAR701 PC With 850 MHz Duron. I got a response back on 6/17/2002. Anyway, the motherboard for the $299 PC is the MSI MS-6378X-L (MS-6378 V.3). A quick rundown of major specs is shown below:

• 200/266MHz FSB, Supports AMD Duron/Athlon/Athlon XP up to 2000+
  
• Ultra DMA 66/100, 2 PC100/133 DIMM Sockets up to 1GB
  
• Integrated Trident Blade3D AGP Graphics Engine shared memory up to 8MB
  
• Micro-ATX Form Factor, 3 PCI, 1 CNR, AC 97, 2 USB, AGP 2x
  
• ADMTek AN983B 10/100 BaseT Ethernet
  

Also, I should note the motherboard used changes based on model. Not bad for a $299 PC with Linux!

JOhn

P.S. Big thanks to Rich at Microtel for the quick repsonse :)

Types, Stereowise

[fm6]

Frankly, the usage of "redneck" in this case is classically racist! The author has no knowledge whatsoever of the individuals purchasing these computers, and is making broad generalizations as to what types of people shop at Walmart. (I suppose the "niggers" shop at K-Mart, eh?)

You make a very, very good point, and this needs further emphasis. There's a lot more to social tolerance than simply avoiding certain words. This is revealed when people avoid saying "nigger", "kike", "spic", and other such expressions, but think nothing of labeling working-class whites as "rednecks". You have to suspect that people who do this are honoring the forms of tolerance, but still find it convenient to think in terms of stereotypes.

I admit you can't totally avoid this -- it's only human to break things down into categories. But it is simply lazy and bigoted to stick with an arrogant, prejudicial set of categories against all evidence, and to deny the many various humans you will meet in life the simple right to be individual people.