Laser Beam Teleported
Michael Wardle writes "ABC Australia reports that a team of scientists from the Australian National University have successfully teleported a laser beam. It seems that teleportation of solid bodies is still a way off, but at least we're a little closer to Slashdot's favorite super power." Another Australian newspaper has a more detailed story.
This is a message bearing laser beam composed of billions of photons.
-
It seems to me, that there is a huge difference:
Team leader Dr Ping Koy Lam says it involved creating a laser beam, its disembodiment and the recreation of the original beam in a different location.
To me, that sentence can be translated as such:
Team leader Ping Koy Lam says it involved creating a ball point pen, its destruction and the recreation of the same ball point pen using a factory blueprint in a different location.
This isn't the first time I've read about "teleportation" of some particle or another, when it seems that they are simply re-creating, mirroring if you will, the particle(s) quantum states in another place. That's not teleporting - that's mimicing.
Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains.
Suppose they get this working with matter. Then it's just a matter of time before humans would walk into a chamber and be rematerialized somewhere else. The question is, who walks out of the destination chamber? Is it me or is it a reconstructed "me" with a different awareness, while the original "me" was destroyed? Even if it's a perfect copy, it's not worth the risk.
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
Team leader Dr Ping Koy Lam says it involved creating a laser beam, its disembodiment and the recreation of the original beam in a different location
The team was understood to be using a device known to insiders as a "video camera", although how it functions exactly was not disclosed during their press release
Aha! So that's what they burgers are made of!
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
For all practical purposes, it is like if you die (and disappear) each time you go to sleep, and your complete copy gets reconstructed at the instant you wake up.
Given that cells of your body don't live long, you are a new, reborn person, every N years.
The key to perceived continued existence is the slow transfer of your consciousness into another body, with clear departure from the old one. The copy operation (cp) is not good enough, you need the move (mv) here.
This should actually be a good test for the existence of the soul as separate from the body - if such a soul exists, the result of teleportation would be the removal of the soul from the body.
Would you care to explain this phenomenon in detail? Oh, wait, you can't prove it but you believe it to be true. You're argument is just as "solid" as the argument of the "fundamentalists" that you deride. You have none.
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OK. Suppose you walk into a teleportation chamber, it scans you completely and creates the identical copy at the destination. Then, it destroys the original you, to achieve the effect of "teleporting". That's what I don't want.
Philosophically it doesn't matter to the rest of the universe what entity emerges from the destination chamber as long as it's a perfect copy of the original. However, it's still murder.
You can go; I'll take the bus.
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
How is this different from "teleporting" a sound wave by using a microphone and a speaker?
Given that cells of your body don't live long, you are a new, reborn person, every N years.
:)
IIRC some parts of your body are only once around.
Your brain for instance.
Some of the other human organs have this principle too, and there is even a name for the group of them as a whole, but darned if I can remember it. ^_^
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Can anyone give a layman's explanation of how the information is getting passed from point a to point b?
Magic.
I have been pwned because my
Quantum entanglement isn't nonsense, and I don't imagine that this teleportation experiment necessarily is either, but the article on The Australian site certainly seems to be. Am I the only one who found it to be incredibly poorly written? I'm somewhat familiar with the principles involved, but I couldn't make heads or tails of most of it.
More detailed my foot - it was gibberish. There were definite erorrs (a previous post already pointed out that the "spooky interactions" are instantaneous, not "at the speed of light"). It's a real shame, too - this may be near-sci-fi technology, but it really isn't so arcane that a little basic proof-reading couldn't be done on articles about it.
Philosophically it doesn't matter to the rest of the universe what entity emerges from the destination chamber as long as it's a perfect copy of the original. However, it's still murder.
Please...a perfect copy IS the original. Everything in the universe is made of energy. People are no exception, and one person certainly isn't made of "different" energy than another. Also, for teleportation to work the only thing that can come out of the other end is a perfect copy. We couldn't begin to measure how randomly changing the kinetic energies and translational vectors of the chemicals in your body will affect you.
The best way to accelerate a windows box is at 9.8 meters per second square.
Yeah I thought that was pretty funny too. I think the reporter is wrong, though -- the spooky part is that it happens *faster* than the speed of light. I'm pretty sure about this, in fact, because there's a famous Einstein line about "spooky action at a distance" referring to faster-than-light quantum effects, which I'm pretty sure the scientists quoted would be aware of.
That being the case, everyone here is totally missing the point. And in fact, the reporters who wrote the linked-to story missed it to, despite this quote:
The bits about teleporting solid objects (including humans) were just humoring the reporter -- sort of like the whole "could this experiment destroy the universe" thing surrounding supercolliders. The true interesting practical application of this is FTL communication -- vital for any space missions going much further than, say, Mars -- and pretty handy even if you're only that far away.
The "spooky action at a distance" is a weird consequense of the heisenberg uncertainity principle. It 'appears' to be an interaction, but in fact it's just the result of the coherency between two 'entangled' wavefunctions.
the 'yes' part is that to receive a teleportation, you have to have one of the entagled particles, and a measured quantity.
the 'no' part is that since the measured quantity is transmitted classicaly, there's no FTL transfer of anything.
-Kz-
The URL you have provided is for a page published by a student undertaking a first-year physics course. Whilst it may (or may not) contain some good content, I doubt the student is part of the research team, and the page should not be treated as authoritative.
The page at http://photonics.anu.edu.au/qoptics/ is somewhat more official.
As any teleportation device could clearly be used to replicate 'N Sync CDs, its use will be obviously be prohibited by the DMCA.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
The blueprint analogy shows a lack of understanding of entanglement. There is no blueprint at the receiving end, and no measurement and communication of instructions to replicate the properties of the sending photon. What happens is a seemingly spontaneous change in the properties of the receiving photon.
Whether this is teleportation or replication is more of a philosophical question, or maybe a matter of semantics. Is an object (or a laser beam) equal to the sum of its properties? If you can make the sum total of an object's quantum properties disappear from one place and reappear in another place, have you merely copied the object or have you moved it?
I think you've moved it, but questions like these deserve more than offhanded answers.
Are you sure about that? If the numbers reported in the second article are correct, the "teleportation" does in fact happen at faster than light speed -- see this comment.
That's the whole point.
The "spooky interaction" postulate was based on the fact that these things seem to be interacting at faster than the speed of light.
As other posts say, the re-constituted object appears (essentially) before the old one is destroyed.
While the rest of the world has been sleeping we have been busily developing teleportation.
Australia's Teleportation project:
All we needed was Superconductor and Future Tech. In another 2 turns we will also have Genetic Engineering and the SETI Program!
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Nerve cells (axons) do regenerate, how else damaged nerves could be reconnected?
Neurons, on the other hand, were believed to not regenerate at all. Recent studies, however, disprove this theory, concluding, in part, that "the human hippocampus retains its ability to generate neurons throughout life".
Thing is, the strongest point in this post is not true. There are always more +2 posts than +3 posts and more +4 posts than +5 posts. Check this story, check every story. What you're saying is not true.
And with this ... nobody knows where the laser beam went to.
It is surmised that it is currently in time-space next to the time-machine that was invented several years ago, switched on ... and summarily disappeared.
Karma? Karma? I don't need no stinkin' karma.
I'm still considering very fast traveling of the light. If there was an impediment between the 1 meter, I'd consider teleportation.
There's a relativly (pun intended) interesting experiment on NEC Institute's web page. It proves that light can go faster than C. Here for NEC Faster than C webpage
It seems that this beam of light traveled about 3C. However, there's conjecture that it traveled slower, but time dilation made it seem 3C. That's unprovable at the time though.
I think the article is incorrect, the Quantum Entanglment interactions are instantaneous, not delayed.
**Enterprize is caught in a long range tractor beam
***HACK HACK HACK CHOKE!
Kirk: Rauh! Rauh!
May be we'll create long range tractor beams from the teleporting laser beams?
The article doesn't make it clear if this is possible, but it would certainly be useful to be able to set up a network to transfer the quantum state, and then later transfer the actual information, after the network is torn down. What if I could transfer the quantum state in my car, take it to my friend, and then when I go home I can communicate with that friend. Even if it's "only" at the speed, this would revolutionize communications (and bankrupt the entire current telecommunications industry). No more need for T1s.
For all practical purposes, it is like if you die (and disappear) each time you go to sleep, and your complete copy gets reconstructed at the instant you wake up. This makes a big assumption: that your self is simply a product of the state of the atoms in your body. I think it is not unreasonable, but it is not a certainty. In this mechanistic age, this assumption is too often taken as an axiom.
The only good weather is bad weather.
Here is an informal talk by Samuel Braunstein on the problem of teleporting humans.
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No. That would work only for the copy of me, but not for the original. The copy does not see a break in memories anyway. The problem is the original. Just imagine, you walk into a chamber, stand there for a minute, and then the operator says "All ready, you've been copied, now be please so kind to walk to the wall and I will shoot you." That is a problem - break of continuity for the original person.
Think about this process. You are teleporting somewhere. You enter the Blue Chamber, press the button. Instantly the surroundings begin to fade into something else, colors fade, teleport operators become more and more transparent, and at the same time other people become visible where they weren't... and finally everything is stable again, and you are in Green chamber at the other end, with all your memories intact and not broken for a moment. That would work.
The article says:
Using a process known as quantum entanglement, the researchers, led by 34-year-old physicist Ping Koy Lam, have disassembled a laser at one end of an optical communications system and recreated a replica a metre away
and
But the radio signal survives and is sent electronically to a receiving station, where within a nanosecond an exact replica of the beam - with the radio signal intact - is retrieved and decoded.
I'm having trouble working out whether that nano-second is the elapsed time from when the original beam is destroyed and the new one is created, or whether it's the amount of time required to recreate the beam from the received radio signal.
If it's the former then we're talking faster-than-light teleportation here because it takes light 3 nanoseconds to travel a yard.
"An encoded radio signal is embedded on an input laser, which is combined with entanglement and then scanned. The laser is destroyed in the process. But the radio signal survives and is sent electronically to a receiving station, where within a nanosecond an exact replica of the beam - with the radio signal intact - is retrieved and decoded."
First, a simplified definition from my very limited research into Quantum Entanglement: The supposed link between particles that have once interacted, enabling them to influence each other instantaneously over indefinite distances.
I'll mention before hand I'm not a quantum physics major of any sort, but if I'm reading this correctly, they have encoded a laser beam with a radio signal and "quantum entangled" the two mediums which is then "scanned" (whatever the hell that is) in which the laser is destroyed in the process. So now we should supposively have an intact radio signal with a "destroyed" laser sub-atomically anchored to it in ether somewhere. Sending this radio signal downrange to a receiver will recreate this signal and "pull" the laser back into reality (pardon my butchering of terms).
My problem here is perhapse not how unbelieveable this sound, but how damn vague the artical is. Scanning? How the hell was the beam recreated? Did it appear from thin air? Did it have to be "un" entangled? It doesn't seem as if the laser is infact destroyed at all... How do you go about "entangling" something to being with? This artical doesn't simply bog you down in scientific explanation; In fact it doesn't bog you down in ANY explanation for that matter-- it throws some words in and stirs them up with teleportation references. Hell, the only way I could figure out ANY details was independent research, and oh, how fun that was. The above definition was as easy as it got. After that? Whew... Maybe I'm just bitching, but I'm asssuming this article was written for the common man, but goes far beyond watering things down. It leaves out key pieces nessisary for understanding to occure. Jeez, that's shitty writing...
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That's exactly why I used this theory in my analogy - it makes more sense at this time. If the soul gets discovered in some way (for example, as a wave in ether or hyperspace) then very many concepts will change.
But for teleporting humans, what matters is first of all the classical physical structure: the DNA sequence, arrangement of membranes, intracellular locations of proteins, and all that. There is no indication that you need quantum mechanical information or even dynamical information in order to make teleportation work.
Maybe it will be quantum mechanical tricks that ultimately make teleportation feasible. But these results so far really have nothing to do with the teleportation of real-world objects, because they don't solve the hard problem. The hard part is not transmitting entanglements, the hard part is transmitting the instantaneous locations of molecules in 200 pounds of matter and recreate them at the other end nearly instantaneously.
It is a big question, and I am not a doctor. But probably your question is incorrectly stated. There is no such single thing as "paralysis". There are many illnesses and injuries that have symptoms of paralysis. If a portion of the brain gets seriously damaged (in a stroke, for example) then some functionality can be lost. Some of lost functionality can be later regained, and so far it is attributed to brain's rerouting capabilities. But I don't know much about that, and nobody knows.
Even if paralysis is caused by nerve damage, nerves grow very slowly. If a significant section of a nerve is lost, it may never be restored.
I have a great idea for a device which will employ this new technology...
How about a device that will teleport the laser back into the eye of the dumbass teenager shooting his laser pointer on the movie theater screen?
-- We live in a world where lemonade is artificial and soap has real lemon.
And that's my problem with whoever wrote this crap. It's obviously dumbed down for people who know nothing about quantum physics (me), but then doesn't even provide the clues for basic understanding. My half hour google search revealed:
Quantum Entanglement: The supposed link between particles that have once interacted, enabling them to influence each other instantaneously over indefinite distances.
Da Mullet's interpretation: Once the two mediums are "entangled" (how you do that is anybodies guess because the article sure as hell doesn't say), they are mysteriously anchored to one another, partical to partical regardless of distance. THEREFORE... While you can "destroy" the laser beam into a chaotic mess, those particals are still mysteriously anchored to their radio counterparts. According to this article, they have destroyed the laser and it's signal, but transmitted the radio to a reciever and have been able to recreate the laser via quantum entanglement effect. The radio partical's laser counterparts (supposively scattered around incoherently) are pulled back from ether to create the original laser signal at point B.
That's the best I can do. Hope it helps, cuz the author sure didn't.
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It would be even better if it didn't have propagation time but hell, I'll settle for the speed at which a laser normally travels through a fiberoptic cable. That wouldn't disappoint me at all.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
it's so funny ... the original transporter on star trek was introduced because they lacked the budget to handle shuttlecraft scenes. the famous roddenberry quote is "what if they just appeared there?"
and here it is, inspiring cool science. neat.
-- p
My big question would be what the "speed" of the information propogation was. Some say it should be c, some say it should be "instantaneous" - either way, the results will have substantial impact on our view of several well accepted physical models.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
Hell, it was an outer limits episode too. Aliens gave humans teleporter technology, but the human operator finds out that the originals are actually destroyed while their copies go about their daily lives thinking nothing but transport has taken place. Of course, the guy went insane... Until you can quantify what truely makes us different from life without consciousness, you're not going to be able to answer that question. if we're just building blocks to be taken apart and put back together, then there shouldn't be much consequence at all. If there is more, something governing those blocks beyong the physical, then you'll be running into quite a few moral dillemas.
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Sorry, another post on the main, but there are applications far beyond encryption... Try non-line of sight laser bombardment. Still, they never mentioned what it took to re-create the laser anyway. And that's assuming this isn't just cold fusion or Internet though your AC outlet...
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"Suppose you walk into a teleportation chamber, it scans you completely and creates the identical copy at the destination. Then, it destroys the original you,"
Actually, most of these philosophical questions are conveniently solved by the fact that that's not at all what happens.
The scanning process involves destroying the original. At no point in time are there two of you, and we currently have no idea of how to do something like that.
I'm cool with being sent in this "destroy the original and recreate" thing so long as they don't transmit the UDP...
me: "Where's my frickin' legs, assmunch?"
technician: "Sorry mate, packet loss."
graspee
how the researchers state that the main hopes for it at this point are as an amazing encryption device, and yet 99% of the comments are about teleportation of matter.
Too bad the "Quantum Teleportation" project listed on this page: http://photonics.anu.edu.au/qoptics/projects.htmll eads to a page that is still "Under Construction".
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
The original Mona Lisa, in good condition. Bidding starts at $20 million.
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I knew some slashbot would make a rather inane comment on a non-issue. That's what the main project engineer was asked. See, we still dont know if faster-than-light does reverse-dilate time. It's still a theory till we prove it, and all we need is 1 out-of-bound number to throw it out.
So yes, it is a valid question.
They must still be building it up painstakingly from bits they teleported from somewhere else :-)
This post is strictly my own opinion and not necessarily that of my employer.
There's a word for moving a object from one location to another whilst maintaining the continuing existence of that object - it's called transportation.
dictionary.com defines teleportation on the other hand as "A hypothetical method of transportation in which matter or information is dematerialized, usually instantaneously, at one point and recreated at another."
I teleported home one night,
With Ron and Sid and Meg.
Ron stole Meggie's heart away,
And I got Sidney's leg.
"Information wants to be paid"
I was just thinking about that to. That has the all the makings of a good sci-fi movie. Some guy(s) who keeps teleporting himself, but is always killing himself to, each time he does it. Wonder what that would to do the soul (if it exists). Wonder if your soul would be part of each copy. Would it be fair and legal to kill you old copy? Since it is a person to. Wonder if the memories of dieing would build up each time you did it.
That's some fucked up shit that society isn't ready for yet. Lucky, we won't have to deal with it just yet.
The key is that you can't prove any of that. There is no logic to religion. Nearly everyone raised under the philosophy of western logic, however, insists that there is logic to religion and that logic can be used to either prove or disprove religion.
...and before you deride me for being no better than the unthinking joe-sixpack, you should study eastern philosophy.
The best way to accelerate a windows box is at 9.8 meters per second square.
An important problem is getting both ends of the nerve cells to connect to each other again. They can't automagically find each other. A cut nerve will usually grow a bit and give up when it doesn't reconnect very quickly.
There is some early work on producing scaffolds that lead the nerve cells to each other and keep them multiplying until they reconnect.
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superluminal photons are old news.
IIRC, though, superluminal communiaction , i.e. passage of information is considered impossible
(the fact the WF collapses does not imply passage of information, as you need to know the information measured at source to decipher the destination state)
I very much doubt they achived this.
Working for necessity's mother.
You know, there's a great story about Richard Fenynman using 'layman's terms'. I've heard slightly different versions, but for the most part, the story appears to be true.
When RF won his Nobel prize in Physics for Quantum Electrodynamics, the story goes that he was approached by a reporter who asked him to explain "in layman's terms" what his work was about.
Feynman's response? Something like, "Well, if i could explain it to you in layman's terms, it wouldn't have been worth the Nobel prize."
Classic.
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What's in a Sig?
The ERP theory *was* proposed by Albert to attempt to disprove instantaneous communication. However, since relativity makes the whole concept of instantaneous moot what are we talking about anyways??
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*not guaranteed
Fire fighters could back themselves up before heading into burning buildings. Then if they die, they can just restore from backup.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
There's a pretty good SciFi book about this called '"A" for Anything'.
Kintanon
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I am not a physicist, but I seem to remember a discussion of FTL properties implied by work by Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen and extended by J.S. Bell.
The particular discussion I remember involved the emission of paired electrons that travel some arbitrary distance. When the path of one of these electrons is altered by some external force, the path of the paired electron is also instantaneously diverted (with some limitation due to frame of reference) in an equal and opposite direction, implying an FTL transfer of information, if not of matter or energy. As I remember, this has an intense impact on the assertion of local causality. Google seems to turn up a large number of references on this subject.
In any case I do not understand why practical applications of this phenomena have not yet been developed.
Please pardon any inadequacies of this summary; I am a lowly engineer and computer scientist entirely unqualified to be commenting on such lofty subjects.
I don't believe in the soul, but this argument could be rewritten with that word. I choose the word "identity." You will never teleport me, because if you did I would lose my identity.
I believe we are more than just brains and tissue and memories; we are the sum of ALL of our parameters. Our identity depends on that location parameter too. How do we reconcile this view with the certain knowledge that our parameters are changing constantly? We are constantly moving, our cells being born and dying, our mood swinging, or memories collecting. Identity isn't just the set of parameters as it is right now, it's a continuous function which shows our path from single unfertilized egg cell to the sum of all those terabytes of data which make us up as adults.
To teleport me into another location, you recreate my exact characteristics in the new location with a new location parameter. Whether or not the original continues to exist is irrelevant; the new me is not the old me. You have created a discontinuity in my function. Identity is continuity.
Let's talk about that important concept, identity.
# The set of behavioral or personal characteristics by which an individual is recognizable as a member of a group.
# The quality or condition of being the same as something else.
# The distinct personality of an individual regarded as a persisting entity; individuality.
The dictionary is telling us that it means both "the same as something else" and "distinct, individual". It's almost a one-word oxymoron. Certainly if you have been teleported in a process which can conceivably leave behind, even for a millisecond, a copy of you at the starting location, you are no longer individual. That sense of identity has been violated.
What about the second sense: The quality or condition of being the same as something else. But if a being has been teleported, the new being is not "the same as" the other. They do not share identity because of that discontinuity. The old me has to be destroyed, the new me has to be born, and they do not share the same location, so they do not share the same function, so they are not the same waveform, and they are not the same entity.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Memory is an iffy way of defending the unity of the self over time. It is frequently wrong. Memories are reconstructions based on reactivation of neural paths, and are flawed, selective, and distorting. It is possible to remember things that didn't happen, and experimental psychology is filled with such cases (giving rise to the false-memory phenomenon of the past couple decades.)
I'm capable of saying "I am." I'm also capable of saying "I am not," "I am the king of France," and the like. The question is what endures from moment to moment.
Saying "mu" is pretentious. This ain't no zendo.
Hopefully they can productize this in the next decade or so, and the Mars explorers can take one with them.
This way, they won't have to wait many minutes between sending and receiving messages with Earth.
BTW, it's a 'subspace communicator', not a 'teleporter'. C'mon, get your bad Sci-Fi right.
My God, it's Full of Source!
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ROFLMAO. Where are mod points when I need them...
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here.
"Now what are you going to make the one at the other end out of..."
The same stuff that the original is made out of...carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, iron...
I have absolutely no idea HOW you could do this, but there's nothing special about the basic ingredients that we're all made of. I have read before that the chemicals in our bodies are worth about 6 bucks on the open market.
"...where are the 1.21 gigawatts needed to do it going to come from"
Either lightning hitting the old clock tower or the wall outlet.
-B
It is not faster than light. Observable information never moves faster than light, even in Quantum Mechanics. It's true that entangled particles can "communicate" in a sense faster than light with eachother, but classical (measurable) information will never move faster than light.
In this experiment, a radio signal was sent between the teleportation sender and the teleportation receiver. At each end, there were some particles entangled with the particles at the other end, however, the classical information - that is the laser beam - could not be reconstructed without sending a radio signal (at the speed of light) from one end to the other.
There's no reason for a sig here.
Not so fast Clarence! Not ALL your cells replace. Many cells are no longer dividing nor capable. Certain tissues (blood, mucosa, liver, skin, and the like) do constantly replenish with less and less fidelity as time passes but there are many critical cells and tissues that do not replenish and you are flat stuck with them.
In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
Your "information" isn't stored in individual atoms. You are not a form of holographic storage device. Information is stored in very stable macromolecules such that even if this atom or that atom is replaced, the connections are the same (a covalent bond between a carbon and nitrogen atom is the same no matter what. This bond is no different than THAT bond - no information is stored in that bond). It is like trying to claim that synthetic vitamin C is not the same as "natural" vitamin C. They ARE the same. They are handled, seen as, and behave the same no matter how the vitamin C was synthesized. There is no information of note in the combined atoms of one molecule vs another. YOU are macromolecules such that the individual atoms are irrelevant in and of themselves.
In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
The particles can "communicate" faster than light, but humans cannot extract information from this communication.
There's no reason for a sig here.
I'm capable of saying "I am." I'm also capable of saying "I am not," "I am the king of France," and the like. The question is what endures from moment to moment.
But I really am the king of France.
Ok, maybe I'm not, but I swear I used to be.
Another thought -- it's very possible that location is a quantum effect, and "normal" movement is subatomic particles popping out of existence and reappearing a distance-quantum away. If that turns out to be the case, then what we call teleportation is the same thing as normal movement, just covering a larger distance with each jump.