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Version Fatigue

An anonymous reader writes "An article in TechCentralStation introduces a useful new term: "version fatigue," which describes what happens when you get tired of learning new ways to do the same old thing with each release of software. This is something that tech designers seem insensitive to, but that drives users crazy. Maybe it's because tech designers are more anxious to be creative than to produce things that users like?"

47 of 391 comments (clear)

  1. Not on Unix? by Ed+Avis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems that the UI of most Unix software (the shell, Emacs, even X) has changed much less over the last 20 years than DOS/Windows, and is still changing more slowly now. Is this an explanation for why Unix users typically learn more of the intricate features of their software? Or does the causation run the other way round - because all the obscure Emacs keybindings are so well known by its users (and developers), they can't be changed?

    --
    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    1. Re:Not on Unix? by Eythian · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yeah, there is obviously not a lot of changes to relearn in an OS that still refers to the IO device as a teletype :)

      Seriously tho, I think that some programs (Emacs e.g.) get so entrenched that to change the format would be heresy (hell, I got scared when I installed a new emacs, accidentally hit 'end' instead of ^E....and it did what I meant!)

      Another reason, taking a more system-wide view, is that UNIX is big on having little bits talking to other little bits, to make one big useful thing. If one of those bits starts speaking a different language, all sorts of things fall over. However, I think that with the fast-moving programs (e.g. KDE, Gnome and their apps) this will become more of a problem, but as GUI programs don't talk to each other so much, this will be restricted to being a user-interface problem.

      ^X^S
      Damn!
      :wq

    2. Re:Not on Unix? by reflective+recursion · · Score: 5, Insightful
      well.. UI has changed somewhat. Let's look at Linux: when I started using it in ~1996, much was different. Default keybindings were different (I believe they have become more PC-friendly over the years.. with actual working backspace, tab, etc. in most distros). Besides that, color was becoming a big part of the shell. Today many Linux (and I know at least FreeBSD) users would never dream of using the shell without "ls" color highlighting. "ncurses" was becoming a bigger part of the shell, with many installation/config programs and even the kernel configuration based on it.

      The nature of X makes it anti-change, in a way. They are about mechanism, not policy. You can see some changes in window manager features. If you looked at Linux in 1996, all you would have is twm, fvwm, and a few others. The biggest UI "eye-opener" was probably Enlightenment. But, before E a major change happened rather inadvertently. If you remember, someone made a fake X screenshot which had a transparent xterm. This is what, IIRC, led to a more eye-candy X UI, starting with E which eventually implemented a transparent terminal. Before E, no one really thought X could be "pretty." It always had that dull Motif/tk feel about it.

      Later came KDE, followed by GNOME. They have the goal of transforming what is basically a high-graphics shell into a "desktop" with higher program interaction than what was available in the normal shell and X interfaces. X allows small things like copy-and-paste, but has no desire to handle program integration. IMO, neither KDE or GNOME have come very far and I'm not quite sure either are very much more than a glorified window manager + X at this point.
      does the causation run the other way round - because all the obscure Emacs keybindings are so well known by its users (and developers), they can't be changed?
      I think this is a large part of what is, to some people, "holding Linux back." It doesn't just happen with keybindings, either. The file system layout is a good example. A number of people have wished to change configuration from traditional /etc to something more "sane." There is always a huge argument when that idea comes up--simply because it is tradition.

      Commercial *ix might not evolve as much as an open system, but I'm sure the open systems put great pressure on the commercial ones. I don't think you can purchase a commercial *ix today that does not have at least a few GNU-isms, such as gcc for example. Because of the open nature of software, it will evolve. And it will also remain the same. It will grow in every direction that people push it. If Red Hat came along today and said "there will be no bash shell in the next release," many people would have to adapt.
      Is this an explanation for why Unix users typically learn more of the intricate features of their software?
      I don't think this is the case at all. For me, I have never felt compelled to learn the intricate features of the majority of Linux software. I know a little about most, but usually not everything. I tend to pick it up on an as-needed basis. I'd also say that Linux demands the user to know more. To use pipes, you must first know a little about the shell. To use X, you must know a little about window managers. To use vi, well you need plenty of time and aspirin and a very open mind (coming from traditional text-editors). I would say that every UI that has ever been introduced into Linux is still there. What _is_ changing, is more UI's are constantly being added.
      --
      Dijkstra Considered Dead
    3. Re:Not on Unix? by qweqwe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Definitely. I've worked on both Unix and Windows. Windows "knowledge" goes out of date very quickly since every year or two the old API and UI is put in "maintenance mode" or completely dropped. In Unix, things are more stable.

      Suppose you have a programmer in 1992 with 3 years experience and transported him/her to 2002. If that programmer was a Windows programmer, he'd have a hard time finding a job today and have a hard time adapting. If that programmer was a Unix programmer, he shouldn't find it too difficult to find a job or adapt to Linux today.

      It's not that Unix hasn't changed much, it's just that most of the changes in Unix are not gratuitous. Technologies are more modularized and centralized and technical advances tend to build on established technologies. Technology and experience are investments so you want to maximize their returns.

      In Windows, technology is fashion. It changes regularly and is dumped when it's no longer a buzzword. (Take a look at all the unrelated and obsoleted Windows database APIs that were introduced in the last 10 years.)

      For an example of this difference, take a look at the Linux kernel and the Windows base OS. In Linux, nearly every new concept seems to want to use either the mmap model or the "everything is a file" model and follows common initialization and update APIs. In Windows, every new concept requires a new data structure with new APIs and new initialization and update APIs. There's a lot more to learn and programming on Windows tends to be a lot more complicated on Windows.

    4. Re:Not on Unix? by kigrwik · · Score: 5, Funny

      > ^X^S
      > Damn!
      > :wq

      you're missing something:

      ^X^S
      Damn!
      :wq
      wtf ?
      ^C
      ^D
      WTF ????
      oh yeah !
      ^Q
      hey ! Where did my terminal go ??

      --
      -- don't discount flying pigs until you have good air defense
  2. Are you kidding? by ObviousGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Except for Open Source Software, versions don't get upgraded so often. But since hardly anyone (1%) are using OSS, it doesn't really make a difference now, does it?

    hahaha. *sigh*

    Meanwhile, I'm still looking for hardware to load Debian 2.2 onto.

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
  3. Thats MORE True With Development Environments by quakeaddict · · Score: 5, Insightful

    look at what MS has done over the past 5 years with database access libraries.

    We have had ODBC, Jet (various versions), SqlLib, RDO (various versions), ADO (many many versions). ODBCDirect, and now ADO.NET.

    All do the same thing...Open the database, Get The data, close the database, and move on.

    It is ridiculous.

    --
    I'm still working on a clever footer.
  4. Market forces by David+Kennedy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This isn't a very useful new term - it's not even a new idea. Fact is that there is a central paradox in the world of commercial software - truly successful stuff doesn't sell. Or rather, it sells once, fixes all the user's problems, and you can't sell him anything else.

    Without trying to be too cynical, this is a very obvious reason for the re-release of old apps with very minor changes to the previous version. How many NEW features of your latest word processor/IDE (delete as appropriate) do you really use? Chances are very few.

    The re-release cycle is a real problem for consumer oriented companies. In a technical/business backend server market (like telecomms or banking) the problem is even worse - shift an app, which will run for ten years trouble free and provide full functionality, once and you may have destroyed your job! Who needs you once that ships?

    Nah. Market forces dictate that broken or incomplete software will be much more dominant in the commercial marketplace.

    1. Re:Market forces by jc42 · · Score: 5, Informative

      In fact, there's a name for this phenomenon: "churning". It's a well-known term in some parts of the commercial worls. Ask any real-estate agent or stockbroker if they know the term.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  5. Regardless of the technology by Black+Aardvark+House · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Designers always are under the impression that "bleeding edge" is the most enticing way to go, and assume that is what the consumer desires. Usually, however this is not the case, people want a stable, easy to use interface.

    It's time we let this little tidbit be known. Quit fixing things that aren't broken!

    --

    I am the evil aardvark!

  6. Adobe by colmore · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Adobe is aweful for this. I dread every photoshop release, I just no they're going to do something complicated and pointless to the interface.

    The problem is, interface design is still an art and not a science. What little research that has gone into interfaces has gone completely unnoticed by the industry at large. I suppose there isn't vocal demand for improvement, so it won't happen.

    --
    In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
  7. Especially true for Adobe products by Jobe_br · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Working extensively with a designer/creative director/art director/etc. has definitely shown me that "version fatigue" is worth paying attention to. Particularly with applications like Adobe Photoshop. I try to stay on top of the new versions and the new features provided by said versions, but whenever I try to get a designer to upgrade, the resistance is magnificent. Changed command keys, different menu hierarchies, basically, different ways to do common things. I have a designer still using Photoshop 5.5 because its the last version she doesn't mind the interface for. Same goes for Illustrator - the "features" added between 8 and 9 (not to mention 10) kept this designer on 8 for over a year after 9 was released.

    What I've learned is that when your work (and productivity) depends on a particular flow and interaction with your applications, even the smallest changes can significantly impact that and result in a very sour attitude towards new releases of software.

    Now, what's the solution? I keep saying that there's no way for Adobe to add new features w/o incrementally changing the way you interact with the application ... but maybe I'm wrong? I dunno.

    1. Re:Especially true for Adobe products by iomud · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm usually frustrated that adobe doesnt add anything new/useful to their "upgrades" interface changes etc etc the only appealing thing from 6 to 7 for me was the healing brush.

  8. it's keeping us from upgrading by Xaoswolf · · Score: 3, Informative
    The software we use for scanning/QCing documents is rather old. We are refraining from upgrading because the newer version because they actually cut down the number of features, and changed the user interface so that instead of being able to have all the nesscessary controlls and views available on the screen, we could have to click through several different windows.

    I sometimes wonder what goes through the mind of the developers when they change a perfectly good working peice of software, and make it one that is harder to use.

  9. this explains... by paradesign · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...why good operating systems have strong user interface guidelines. Apple is a notable example, its what makes them so easy to use. every joe blow windows programmer thinks he can revolutionize the UI, which makes running windows so god damn frustrating.

    --
    I want 2D games back.
    1. Re:this explains... by zaren · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is that broke their own rules when going from os9 to osX. Finder commands which have been constant since System 7 changed for no good reason: want to create a new folder? Command-N doesn't do it anymore, that opens a new Finder window - Shift-Command-N is your new keyboard shortcut now. The "stop light" of window control buttons violate their old user interface guidelines on multiple levels. And they even moved the location of "Empty Trash" on the menu bar, so people that went to the menu bar instead of using a keyboard shortcut have to undo all those years of muscle memory training of just going to the last menu item on the right and dragging down...

      Yes, it's whining, to a certain degree. I did the same thing when Apple went from System 6 to System 7 and changed how you handled control panels and extensions, and when they went to the "Platinum" puffy Windows-y interface in OS 8.

      The changes from 6 to 7 were good for the system, "Platinum" didn't do much for me (I still prefer the clean black-and-white interface of System 7), and osX is a whole new ball game. It's starting to grow on me, and I'm finally learning to go to the Dock instead of the Finder to empty the trash. I'm actually starting to enjoy the Dock now - it's a nice retractable place to put a lot of icons I used to leave lying around on my desktop. I guess change can be good after all :)

      -----
      Apple hardware still too expensive for you? How about a raffle ticket?
      Let "them" know you're not a terrorist!

      --
      Come to the University of Mars! Classes starting soon!
    2. Re:this explains... by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Microsoft had some good standards but they constantly ignore them these days. I saw a quote that thanks to Web application, which forces people to use really crappy UI, and the preponderance of high-resolution with lots of colors and everyone trying to take advantage of it (skinning is just another word for "angry fruit salad"), UI has been set back to about 1984.

      No standards, nothing you can count on. I don't know how many slick curvy shiny little apps I've tried where you're randomly stabbing at everything on the screen because you don't know what's a control and what's just window dressing (e.g., Kai).

      And this tendency to make regular Windows apps look like Web pages is just ludicrous. There were so many violations of common sense in just the installation of Visual Studio .NET, I could write a book about it. The app itself isn't too bad, but in some ways Microsoft has become the worst UI innovator because they are making lots of stylistic changes that have a negative effect on usability. That and their 10-year tendancy to try to minimize the actual usable area of the screen. Why is it that every new version of Microsoft's apps have bigger toolbars, more deadspace (worst of all!) and less actual working area of the screen. The Amiga had it best with menu bars that only came up with a right mouse click... why should that chunk of screen be eaten up by something that is only used for a couple of seconds at a time?

      Oh well, I've ranted long enough.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  10. New GUI Tools/Widgets by N8F8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know much of the time any changes in GUI design is driven by either complaints or changes in tools available. New GUI widgets are being developed at a phenominal rate. To the developer it's almost irresistable to not use somthing that seems to simplify a task.

    On the other hand, between my wife and my mom I've had plenty of experience with the frustation users feel at radical changes. For instance the new option in MS Office Apps that default hides infrequently used Menu options and toolbar icons. It took me almost an hour to tell my mom over the phone how to get her right-justify button back.

    There is hope though, if Adobe keeps patenting obvious GUI interface concepts we'll all be back to command line programs and the point will be moot.

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
  11. Us techies know how to deal with it ... by jc42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > This is something that tech designers seem insensitive to, but that drives users crazy.

    This doesn't sound like the techies I know. I've worked in the computer biz for three decades, and as long as I can remember, there has been a standard excuse for not upgrading to the latest release: "I've learned to use the old one. It's working fine for me. I've got work to do, and I don't want to waste time learning to use the latest version. Maybe when I find I need some of the new features, I'll consider upgrading."

    This has always been a fact of life in the "tech" sector, to the frustration of the Customer Support people who are always dealing with people who are 30 revs behind. You don't hear about it much because techies don't make a fuss over it. We just quietly listen to the hype for the latest versions, and we ignore it, unless we hear something that we think will be useful enough to justify the time lost in an upgrade.

    There are some linux systems that have been running continuously for around a decade now, without any upgrades at all ...

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    1. Re:Us techies know how to deal with it ... by swb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm sure the Netcraft numbers don't lie, but they only measure webservers. *All* of our Win2k machines have long uptimes and none has ever bluescreened. They get restarted for security updates and that's about it.

      Admittedly the work of most of them is file/print and it isn't going to kill them, even with roughly 3/4 TB of disk per system, but even the busier systems (Exchange, SQL server, Web server) don't die on us.

      I think Win2k deserves more credit for uptime than it usually gets.

    2. Re:Us techies know how to deal with it ... by t · · Score: 3, Insightful
      yawn.

      You can flap your lips all you like but it doesn't prove anything. Give us proof. Not the usual "blah blah blah we have a Win2k box blah blah blah never rebooted blah blah blah uku billion terrabytes workload blah blah blah."

      That's all I ask, proof. Proof. Proof.

      As for the win2k web servers not having very long uptimes, perhaps it is because it is a common practice to reboot them every week to prevent "unscheduled reboots".

      t.

  12. Good vs Evil by Alien54 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    In some cases, like at the height of the Browser wars, new versions of Netscape every several months was exciting. New features that were in fact useful, etc.

    On the other hand, I still know of people who would still be on Windows 3.1 and word 5.0 if they were not forced to "upgrade" for one reason or another.

    heck, even look at webpages. With the new privacy statement implemetations in IE 6.0 people coding in basic HTML will tend to be locked out because the browser will generate an ominous error message about a lack of a privacy policy. The Current implementations of P3P are a legal minefield, so much so that at least one person has advocated dis-avowing p3p altogether, just for your corporate safety.

    Version fatigue comes in when the new bells and whistles do not obviously justify the changes needed in work habits, and do not expand the core functionality in a useful and meaningful way.

    there are only so many ways to re-invent the wheel.

    Microsoft, for example, has got itself on a treadmill, because it has to come out with a new version, regardless of worth, every several years. This has irritated me so much that I hope they trip on the treadmill, fall, and do serious damage to themselves.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  13. Not "Creativity", indeciciveness... by Nijika · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I find many developers and many development houses are afraid to lay down the law when it comes to things like usability. My personal philosophy here is that you have to weigh the change versus the impact it'll have on current users. No matter how cool moving the scroll bar from left to right would make an interface, or how much more clear changing a var name from "input" to "input_ts" would make things, it's ALWAYS going to screw people up. And if your product is mature, it'll screw up the users that are already established.

    I see Apache 2.0 as an achievement in this regard. When I was researching the new 2.0 branch I was expecting a new mind-bending config that'll destroy most of the work I had done over the years in standardizing my Apache builds; not so.

    I can't say the same for every other software package out there, including almost every new major release of RedHat.

    --
    Luck favors the prepared, darling.
  14. Users and Interface by mjlesko · · Score: 3, Informative

    *** Rant On ***

    As a programmer I can speak to the software end of this conundrum involving "version fatigue." In the companies I've worked for, the programmers are the lifeblood of the enterprise, but often treated as little more than throwaways (albeit usually relatively well-paid). And, software projects/products rarely have a clear definition - so their development is a moving target. So programmers cannot define what they should build - because they lack any control (other than to drive from the backseat) - and no one else can definitively tell them.

    What does this have to do with versions you say? Well, for software that actually gets out the door (the minority of projects to be honest), it's almost never *right*; in addition, it has a bevy of unnecessary features, which made it in due to an unclear vision of what the result should be. Therefore another version is needed to "get it right", of course the unclear vision remains so some improvement is made, maybe features are cut (a rarity), and some new unnecessary features are added, and others changed (but not for the better and sometimes for the worse).

    A good book on this topic is Alan Cooper's "The Inmates are Running the Asylum" Amazon. It focuses on User Interface Design, which at the end of the day really means developing the disciplines and indentifying the user(s) to actually define what should be done before it's done!

    *** Rant Off ***

  15. This is arguably *the* most critical problem by coyote-san · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know who this AC is, but my friends and I are very much aware of the consequences of constantly changing the way you do things.

    Our focus was on development, specifically why MS developers seem to have arrested development at about the level of 2 years of real experience. This isn't a slam against them - this was so widespread that we knew it had to be environmental.

    We eventually figured out that the problem was Microsoft's constant reinvention of the wheel. We focused on the GUI, and compared the fact that we had been using the same libraries for a decade (Xlib for low-level routines, Motif for lists, menus, etc.), while in the same time MS Windows had released something like 4 separate, and incompatible, graphics libraries.

    This mean that while we were able to build on our prior experience - and more importantly build on other organization's experiences as we brought in new employees with fresh ideas - the MS shops were constantly struggling to "stay in place" and there was essentially no institutional memory.

    To be honest, I think much of the problems with MS Windows applications can be traced to this. After 10+ years of Unix experience, most people have been bitten by a fair number of "it could never happen" errors, and they instinctively take care to avoid a repeat. A MS Windows developer has probably seen as many errors, but how do you map the solution for a library three generations ago to the current one?

    --
    For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
    1. Re:This is arguably *the* most critical problem by Badgerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes. Yes, exactly.

      I'm an M$ developer for the most part (though I'm moving away as fast as my career will allows) and it gets utterly insane. After several years of ASP, VB, ADO development, suddenly I have to deal with .NET.

      This is why I'm moving towards PHP, *nix, Java, and C++. This is insane.

      --
      "The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
    2. Re:This is arguably *the* most critical problem by mav[LAG] · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's a quote I once read that sums it up:

      "Unix may be a steep learning curve, but at least you only have to climb it once."

      I think I finally understand what it's getting at now.

      --
      --- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
  16. Maybe that's why... by Havokmon · · Score: 3, Insightful
    ..Users think 'Usability' really refers to how much like the LAST product this new product behaves..

    --
    "I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
  17. Re:bah. ignore the users. by Badgerman · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ever project I've been on that ignored the users ended up crashing and burning and eating up a lot of cash and time. In many cases a programmer doesn't know what a user needs because they have different experiences. I've seen year-plus-long projects go under because users simply refused to use a new system that was forced on them.

    Of course its NOT easy to figure out what users want, and it requires some savvy to figure it out and get sign-off. That's part of the programming lifestyle.

    I can sympathize with version fatigue, though. I'm tired of companies (read M$) deciding how I think.

    --
    "The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
  18. I thought at first glance... by dmarien · · Score: 5, Funny

    that the title of this story was verizon fatigue... and I had a glimmer of hope that there was a professional diagnosis for being driven insane by their "can you hear me now? good..." adds.

    --
    dmarien
  19. Pure Laziness by kjz · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It's thus entirely rational not to want to learn this stuff until you absolutely need to use it. But that makes life more frustrating, since it puts you in "learning mode" when you're trying to do something new and possibly stressful...

    Rant mode: On.

    This is pure intellectual laziness. What is wrong with being in a "learning mode?" We do it our entire lives! Why should someone want to actually stop learning?

    I've noticed a very disturbing trend lately. It could just be my perceptions, but it still gives me cause for concern. Many people (both general consumers and professionals in business) don't want to bother learning anything. They want to tackle complex tasks that could never be done before, but insist on not having to learn the tools to do it. I see it here at work with people who insist on holding on desperately to suboptimal programming tools when others would tackle the job more effectively. I even see it in my own family: I once got a call from my mother, while she was on vacation, asking how to access the voicemail for her cell phone. She called me at work, in the middle of the day, simply because she had never bothered reading the instructions from her service provider! (I taught her the meaning of RTFM that day.)

    I understand that many products can be difficult to use, especially software. It takes effort to learn these products, and effort to use them. However, very often we barely have the technology working. How can you expect it to be easy to use as well? Automobiles, television sets, and radios are all products that many now consider fairly easy to use. Now ask the question: How long did it take for them to get to be so simple? Some of these products have been continually developed and refined for over a century. Now consider how long VCRs, camcorders, and software products have been around. By comparison, these are all fresh out of the R&D lab!

    People need to realize that complex tasks can't generally be simplified overnight. It takes time to find the solution to the problems at hand, and even more time to refine the solution such that it is both effective and efficient (i.e. it requires a minimum of effort to use.) All of the complaining does nothing but add to the noise.

    Rant mode: Off.

    Thanks for reading. :-)

    -kjz

    1. Re:Pure Laziness by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is pure intellectual laziness. What is wrong with being in a "learning mode?" We do it our entire lives! Why should someone want to actually stop learning?

      There's a difference between learning and re-learning.

      If I already know how to perform a certain task in Foo 5.0, I should be able to apply that knowledge when Foo 6.0 comes out instead of digging through
      help files trying to figure out why the old method doesn't work anymore and what the new method is.

      Adding new features is great. Changing the way existing features behave should be avoided unless there's an overriding NEED to do so

    2. Re:Pure Laziness by Sven+Tuerpe · · Score: 3, Interesting
      This is pure intellectual laziness. What is wrong with being in a "learning mode?" We do it our entire lives! Why should someone want to actually stop learning?

      Nothing. Nothing is wrong with a learning mode as such. What really makes a problem is being put back into a learning mode for the same task over and over, which is peculiar to computer software. This makes you less efficient in accomplishing that task than you were befor, for no apparent reason. Making you more efficient is generally notg your goal when using a computer; your goal is to be more efficient than you would be without. Or with the previous model. Or with a typewriter.

      Also don't forget that not all learning is learning of explicit knowledge, rules and sentences one could quote in an exam. There is tacit knowledge, there are habits formed in everyday use of a thing, and there are strategies helping to find knowledge in the world when it can't be found in the head. What isn't there is an unlearn button. Learning a new way of doing something after having learned another way very well might be more difficult than learning a totally new thing.

      --
      http://erichsieht.wordpress.com/category/english/
    3. Re:Pure Laziness by stinky+wizzleteats · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is pure intellectual laziness. What is wrong with being in a "learning mode?" We do it our entire lives! Why should someone want to actually stop learning?

      Well, as a technology person, I can understand the sentiment. I too have been frustrated by the dangerous and ridiculous fear most users have of change. But you need to look at things from their perspective.

      If you're anything like me, you are concerned with the nuts and bolts of IT. To us, new user interfaces are no big deal. We have to keep learning all the time, or we get like that old bitter, grizzled engineer who sits in the corner and talks endlessly about how great Lantastic was. This significantly divorces us from the world of those for whom IT is a tool, not their job. A lawyer who spends their life keeping up with contract law and reading 100 page briefs on a daily basis simply doesn't have the intellectual bandwidth to deal with where her fucking bullets&numbering button went in the new version of Word. This is not a reflection of her intelligence or ability to learn. It's a simple matter of not having the time.

      If we can agree that the problem is unreasonable fear, then I would suggest that this notion that IT exists to serve itself is the real cause for this fear. Users think of us as self-serving elitist upstarts who don't care about their problems. Just look at this thread. Programmers bemoan the idea of writing quality code because it would put them out of a job. I guess I kind of thought quality code WAS their job. If they don't want to do it, then they don't deserve the work. This idea that IT should be a self-sustaining beast without the inconvenience of worrying about bothersome users is short-sighted and unethical.

      I am no fan of Microsoft. In fact, I am a rather vitriolic critic. But if there is one reason by which their business success might be legitimately explained, it is that they look at their entire product line from the standpoint of the user. Features such as your Outlook journal automatically keeping track of when you work on Word documents, for example, are very cool toys for the user, but make a huge mess of the back end for us to deal with. They don't do this consistently, and they don't even do this well, (hell, they're the ones causing all this version fatigue!) but they are about the only people out there thinking of the user first and the server room second.

      Until we can eschew our elitism, and develop some sense of a work ethic with regard to making IT work for the people who need it, we will not overcome the user fear barrier.

  20. Two sides to it by Badgerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First, I think the article is spot-on. Gods, I'm tired of adapting to so-called upgrades. I rarely upgrade things unless there's a reason, but there are times you're left with no choice (say, a company-wide decision).

    The other side of this thats ignored is the programmers. A lot of us are NOT trying to ram out Spectacleware, we'd like to talk to the users, like to go "slow and steady" and don't get the options. We don't often get the chance to make that decision, however, because someone wants something out the door pronto.

    Version fatigue? I'd say its being suffered on both sides because the people making the decisions don't care about users or programmers.

    --
    "The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
  21. Why this happens.. by SteveX · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the main reasons this happens is as a result of focus group testing and other usability testing on the current version.

    If you take the current version of most software and do some usability testing with new users, you'll probably find that there are things that could be done better.

    But when you make those changes, to please the new users, you're messing with the users who already know how the thing works.

    Microsoft Visual C++ is a perfect example. With each new version they move things around - but they have "compatibility" modes for people who liked the old way. Even with the newest Visual Studio.NET you can still pick the old VC 2.x keyboard layout and use it.

    That's a pretty good solution, as long as your app is customizable enough that you can use the customization to emulate the previous version...

    The only real problem with this solution is that it makes it so nobody else can use your customized version. If I go over to my co-workers desk to try to fix a bug, I can never remember what hotkey to hit to get it to compile..

    (Maybe the solution to this particular problem is to make it easy to set a "guest" profile that temporarily overrides the current profile).

    Windows is a huge victim of this problem too - the whole redesigned Start menu in XP annoys most existing users, but new users (users new to computers, what few there are - I helped a friend "get online" and got to watch this) seem to like it..

    - Steve

  22. As a tech person, I am *not* insensitive to this by Jerf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In fact, as a 'tech' person, I switch versions and machines more often then your average Joe.

    My Linux friends are often amazed at how uncool my Linux desktops are, or my emacs config files are, or a whole slew of other things. The reason for that is that I am f'in sick of having to completely reconfigure the system every time I upgrade, or hop machines (which is almost always an upgrade or a downgrade; otherwise I could at least carry my config), or change software packages.

    I switched which machine was doing my email processing last week, and I just wanted to copy the config across from one to the other. No dice; one ran exim3, the other ran exim4, which has a whole new, completely incompatible config file. The conversion script was wholly unhelpful for my config, so I had to do it by hand.

    If versions weren't changing so often, or if it were easier in general to carry configurations around even across versions (an impossible task in general), I'd be much more likely to actually configure things. As it is, I carry around a *small* .emacs file, and have gotten quite adept at fiddling with window manager parameters in short order to get focus-follows-mouse, and that's about all the config I care to do. It'll just get blown away tommorow, why bother?

    Granted, I'm more violent to my systems then your average user, even more then your average Linux user, but it's still exasperating.

    People, it's not a mark of manliness that your program requires text file twiddling to configure. Give me an easy, easy, easy method of at least setting the the basic parameters. Like Mozilla: The basic parameters are in the config box, but there's a lot of obscure ones you need to hit the prefs.js directly. That's fine with me.

    And don't even get me started on re-re-re-re-re-re-learning keyboard shortcuts.

  23. What a pain by willpost · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They also pushed the new version by sacrificing backward compatibility.

    Every Access version prior to 2000 used DAO (Data Access Objects). In the Visual Basic Library References, DAO was checked.

    In Access 2000, they pushed ADO (Active Data Objects), which many have said is more complex and slower. They removed the Library Reference to DAO and sneaked in the Reference to ADO! To make matters worse they duplicated the variable type "recordset" in ADO and DAO, which renders useless almost all Visual Basic Code that worked with a table.

    If you used the phrase "Dim x as recordset", you had to do one of the following:
    - Uncheck ADO and Check DAO (Forcing it to use the older version)
    - OR Check Both ADO and DAO, then search all code and replace every "Recordset" with "DAO.Recordset"
    - OR Leave ADO Checked and DAO Unchecked, then search all code and rewrite every line that opened a table.

    It's already bad enough that Access Databases start misbehaving when it's shared by too many people or live tables exceed 80,000 records, or the database exceeds 1.9 Gigabytes. At this point you're already thinking about scaling up to SQL server, Oracle, or my SQL.

    In addition to that, more and more features are added while the "little Jet engine that could" becomes more and more critical to the operations of an organization.

    Does Microsoft think that Access programmers have nothing better to do than get interrupted by every department that has upgraded to Access 2k? How hard would it have been to tell the upgrade wizard to automatically link to the DAO Library and automatically replace every "recordset" with "DAO.Recordset". You might think that it means more money for a consultant but all it does is accelerate the time to burnout. They're getting harder to find every day.
    See:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en& lr=&ie=UTF8& oe=UTF8&selm=tTSK7.1339%24rY1.143064%40dfiatx1-snr 1.gtei.net&rnum=2
    http://groups.google.com/groups ?q=openrecordset+da o+ado&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&selm=3b993cc9.3218 4196%40news.charter.net&rnum=6

    I've also heard that Microsoft's Visual Basic strategy towards .Net has completely changed the language, effectively killing Visual Basic.
    See:
    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=vi sual+basic+.ne t+killed&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&selm=3a50cbe9.7 644234%40news.clara.net&rnum=6

    It's no wonder that companies are switching to open source. Anyone's patience will wear thin after having to jump every time that Microsoft tells them to.

  24. Well, by mindstrm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I, for one, agree. The longer people keep the same system and the same software, the better they learn it.

    I don't buy this stuff about how unix is hard and other stuff is easy... I remember LOTS of yuppie boomers who learned old wordperfect just fine.. and that's certainly not wysiwig. Obscure keypresses, hidden markup codes, they understood it all.. and some were really good at it.

    The problem is when things change rapidly. Totally.

    Emacs keybindings aren't changed because there is no reason to change them. Nobody wants to re-write all that lisp.

    1. Re:Well, by reflective+recursion · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I don't buy this stuff about how unix is hard and other stuff is easy
      Then..
      The problem is when things change rapidly. Totally.
      This is part of the problem w/ determining ease-of-use. If you went from Windows to Unix in one day, you would be completely lost. More so, if you had never touched DOS before. You would have no concept of command lines or executing programs. Metaphorically, things can be different. Folders don't exist in (traditional) *ix, but directories do. If you took a long time vi user who had never used another text editor, and moved him to a Windows text editor, he would struggle to do anything. The classic vi vs. emacs is the same thing. I wouldn't say either one is more easy to use than the other. There are simply people attached to their tools.

      Perhaps the ultimate answer is: ease-of-use doesn't exist. I do believe good documentation and teachers do, though (and overly-complex software, which is only slightly different from powerful software, in that one provides a use per complexity, the other does not).
      --
      Dijkstra Considered Dead
    2. Re:Well, by IntlHarvester · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I remember LOTS of yuppie boomers who learned old wordperfect just fine.. and that's certainly not wysiwig.

      Many did, however most management staff did not.

      Obscure keypresses, hidden markup codes, they understood it all.. and some were really good at it.

      True, WordPerfect was designed from the ground-up to be an "Expert" interface. It was specifically designed for professional typists. Even so, 90% of the users never figured out the more complex stuff like font formatting and tables -- stuff that virtually everyone can do in (say) Word.

      What's important to understand is that the move from WordPerfect to Word lead to a fundemental restructuring of who types stuff in American business. WordPerfect was still grounded in the days of personal secretaries and typing pools. With Word, these 'yuppie' managers now have to type their own memos (although you could argue that e-mail was the final catalyst in this trend).

      This lead to the immedate drop in admin salaries and training costs, which from a business standpoint was a good thing.

      I don't buy this stuff about how unix is hard and other stuff is easy...

      Just because people HAD to learn WordPerfect, doesn't mean they liked it. I certainly didn't -- the program basically sucked and relied on the user memorizing a bunch of pointess crap. Even in the context of DOS console apps, WordStar was much more user-friendly.

      So, yeah, it's possible for people to learn (say) Emacs. But what's the point in doing so? Defeating the computer? Lowering productivity? Impressing the zitfaced IT geeks?

      --
      Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
  25. Reading these posts make me realize that . by crovira · · Score: 3, Insightful

    software developers, people who only ever use vi or Emacs should shut up when the discussion comes 'round to GUI design principles or software usability.

    They have no [expletive deleted] idea what the problems are because THEIR software has been stable for decades.

    Using "make" or a shell does NOT make a coder into a user. It does not provide the programmer with any perspective into "user-land."

    That's why most Linux GUI stuff sucks, can't copy/paste across applications, doesn't follow guidelines and is so ideosyncratic you just want to strangle the coder.

    Being a domain expert is fine if you're working in that domain. But coders are supposed to be experts working in their OWN domain: CODING.

    I wouldn't want to look at or use code produced by a domain expert (it'll be correct but it'll probably be buggy, unstructured, unmaintainable perform like a resource pig.)

    By the same token, I wouldn't trust code that has been produced by a software God but has not been verified for correctness by a domain expert (it may be sweet and run like blazes but I can't trust that it actually solves the problem its supposed to.)

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  26. Never abandon an interface convention! by rkent · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's the best peice of software design advice I've ever received. It came up during a discussion of windows 95, back when that was new, when we noticed that you can still click on the upper left corner of a windows app and get the window menu, or double-click there and close a window, just like you've been able to since windows 3. Really - try it!

    Unfortunately, that's about the only prominent example of MS following that advice. After years of working on windows NT 4, for instance, I finally convinced myself to leap to win2k because the amount of supported hardware was just so much better. And I had NO idea how to administrate my machine! Just trying to partition my drives was a huge hassle; I used to be able to open up the disk management node in the control panel and now... well, I found it; it's in "administrative tools -> computer management."

    Which is fine, but it was somewhere else for so LONG. Would it REALLY have hurt to leave a link to that program from its old place? And the sad thing is, MS isn't really the worst offender. I'm thoroughly confused every time I get a new version of KDE; in some ways, I'd be just peachy on using KDE 1 just because I remember how to configure it so well (and I would, except that the mail client sucks prior to version 2.2).

    In all, I think there needs to be a good deal more attention paid to interface design before the FIRST release. Because, for better or worse, the first interface you give someone is the one they're going to expect from your product. If it sucks, you're just going to be pressured to maintain a sucky interface, or frustrate your customers when you discard what they're familiar with.

  27. Free Software doesn't have this problem. by MongooseCN · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The reason why interfaces keep changing is so that software publishers can sell the same software twice. Users won't "upgrade" to a new version if it doesn't look any different than the old version.

    Free software though doesn't need to sell itself. Free software is made to solve a problem, not make money. Big difference. Changing an interface between versions only makes a problem worse, since it's harder for the user to use the software. Instead free software is changed each version to help better solve the problem it was designed for. Just another reason to trust Free and OSS more.

  28. Useful new buzzword... by mysticgoat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...this "version fatigue". I hope it gets as widely adopted as "vaporware" did. Version fatigue is an excellent way to describe that part of so many new releases of older products that are nothing more than moving the chrome around on the sheet metal, and have nothing to do with the underlying chassis and powertrain.

    Sometimes one pithy identification of a problem is enough to cause radical changes for the better. Version fatigue might be a very powerful addition to the lexicon.

  29. Version fatigue from bad initial design by Jeppe+Salvesen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you change your design around so much, you might not have done a good design in the first place. So, you met the deadline, but the design was inadequate. What do you do? You rush for the next deadline, trying to redesign the interface a bit as you go, making it smoother.

    Iterate sufficient times, and what you get is version fatigue.

    If you had spent enough time in the design phase, possibly with some prototyping, you might have escaped a bit of all these changes.

    That said, if you look at Microsoft Word, I would argue that the version fatigue is not that great. Type at the keyboard, change the fonts with the dropdowns, and hit the printer icon. The floppy icon for saving. The looks are slightly changed, but almost everything is done in the same way as before (which is why I'm relatively happy with Word97). Gimme a good reason to get Word XP! If you can, I bet I wouldn't get version fatigue, since the fundamental functionality is relatively stable.

    Changing the interface when the interface is flawed is an unpopular but necessary task. Changing the interface for the sake of changing the interface is a PR nightmare.

    --

    Stop the brainwash

  30. chrome is evil by marxmarv · · Score: 3, Insightful
    every joe blow windows programmer thinks he can revolutionize the UI, which makes running windows so god damn frustrating.
    grip, x11amp, Enlightement, etc. etc. That syndrome is hardly unique to Windows, unfortunately. Having not just two different native looks (Athena, Motif+derivatives), but two different feels (Athena, Motif+derivatives) doesn't really help matters much either. It's a shame Motif is implemented in terms of Xt, because it would be so much easier to drop-in replace with Gtk+ or Qt or whatever you like if it weren't.

    Why can't a button be just a button, and why do skins seem to automatically mean bitmaps pasted over buttons?

    -jhp

    --
    /. -- the Free Republic of technology.