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CD Copying Kiosks Endorsed in Australia
Iron Sun writes: "While the story is somewhat misleading in stating that the plan legalises piracy, CD copying kiosks have been given the go ahead here in Australia. It will be interesting to see what the Australian Recording Industry Association says about this. Supposedly the plan involves royalty payments to ARIA, but where artists stand is not discussed."
As if I needed more people ripping off my OpenBSD ISO images and giving them to their friends.
--
Theo DeRaadt
Founder, OpenBSD project.
with superior sound quality to home burners and able to outwit anti-copying devices
OK, Apart from $5/burn (or a whole 30CDs before you've paid for that burner), HTF am I going to get better than 44KHz out of a CD? The only interesting thing is that someone decided the copiers weren't illegal in and of themselves.
I have seen these around for a while in Australia. The first one I saw in Melbourne in January, the second in Perth at my university.
In the article it mentions they are superior quality to home burners - I wouldn't have thought there was a difference..?
--- Why are you wearing that stupid bunny suit? | Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
Time to grab some Moby CDs and book a flight!
Everything will be taken away from you.
...the industry has been cornered into a compromise with the unstoppable pirating of music
When will this industry wake up and realize you're not being cornered into anything! Accept the digital future and capitalize on it! I bet the RIAA/MPAA was "cornered" into accepting VHS only to find out now that it's one of it's biggest cash cows. They never seem to learn from their history. I bet once the conglomerates see how well this works in Australia, we'll see some relaxation on the lobbying from RIAA/MPAA.
Hargun
Think nothing is impossible? Try slamming a revolving door.
It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
In the article, we have this comment,
Michael Speck, of ARIA's anti-piracy investigations unit, said: "Any request or application that is made of the industry is not just point-blank rejected. This is very much a case of watch this space.
"There are many legitimate uses for CD burners. However, experience has shown illegitimate uses as well."
So, when music sales are down, it's because of those damn pirates, but when we can get somebody to pay us, regardless of our principles, then it's a legitimate use.
Yeah, riiight...
wtf ever happened to integrity, or better yet just proper use of the english language? it's called 'copying' because i get a COPY, i don't go into this thing and walk out holding a pirate...
If ``music piracy'' is defined as something similar to ``the illegal copying of music'', then how can the sentence ``plan that legalises music piracy'' be parsed? Once its legal, its no longer piracy.
Yet another case of taxing everyone for the deeds of the few. Unfortunately, Australia has no laws about fair use (ok, they do have exemptions in their version of the DMCA, but only if the material wasn't copy-protected in the first place) so I guess it's better than expected.
Since we're paying royalties, does this mean we're entitled to copy and give these copied CDs away? After all, the artist is being compensated so it's not stealing, is it?
"Einstein argued that [...] God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software engineer." ~ Brooks
Now that the first step is being implemented, we only need to take care of a few more steps.
1) lower copyright restrictions to 12 years.
2) require that if any work wants to have copyright protection, that it must submit it to a database for safekeeping
3) Open up all the works in that database that is older than 12 years old.
4) Network these kiosks to allow anyone to download and burn anything they want from the database
5) Now you have a library system that the founding fathers would be proud of.
I thought it was indescribably cool. The floorspace taken up by the dancing routine is a bit wasteful, but if you figure that you can replace several racks of CDs with one of these units I think it is well worth it.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
-a spring loaded fist that punches you if you try and copy any eminem cds
-a spring loaded built in lawyer that will automatically sue you if you try and copy any microsoft OS installation cds
-a beer holder (this is australia)
-australian friendly instructions such as "insert the bloody cd here!"
-anti-croc certification of all machines from the crocodile hunter
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
world- first plan that legalises [sic] music piracy.
If it's legal, it shouldn't be called "piracy." Copying a CD as a backup is not piracy. I've always accepted the definition of piracy to be "illegally copying a tape/CD/book/game so you don't have to buy it yourself." Perhaps my definition isn't in synch with the rest of the world's, but piracy is inherently illegal, and there are legal reasons to copy a disk.
Of course, this guy may just be buying into the RIAA rhetoric that CD burners are only used to illegally burn CDs. I really hope nobody is that dumb.
The second reason this article looks amateurish is the technical specs.
with superior sound quality to home burners and able to outwit anti-copying devices
The last time I checked, my CD burner could create perfect copies of a CD. The Australian dollar may be weaker than the US dollar, but I don't think the same thing applies to CD burners.
Finally, there's this odd line:
"It is yet another angle in a technological nightmare the music industry is finding unstoppable."
At this point, I'm beginning to think the author is largely uninformed, but knows how to download music and burn it to a CD. His quote seems like wishful thinking, but the industry has had a number of successes stopping digital piracy (Napster, mp3.com, etc...).
In all, a poorly written article, but an interesting issue. There are some major questions left unanswered. What do the artists get out of it? And the AIRA? Is the technology really any superior to home burning technology? What does this legalization to Australia's status in international copyright treaties?
Finally, how are these copiers any legally different from a Xerox machine?
Since this has turned out to be more of a review of the article than I expected, I feel obligated to give it two stars out of five.
Hey, if I were flogging these kiosks I'd have one outside every music store in the country.
:-)
Customer walks in to music store, looks for suitably copy-protected CD, pays his money, leaves the store, turns left at the doorway, pays his $5 walks back into the store with original CD in one hand, the dupicate in his left, steps up to the counter and says "I want my money back, it won't play in my CD player."
Money changes hands, customer walks out with his new $5 CD.
Six months later the RIAA can't understand why the guy who operates these kiosks now has a bigger house, faster car and larger boat than any of the recording company bosses
Please, can we have a break from sensasionalism.
BTW I think this such is a cool idea. Way to go, Aussies !
As an independant artists I would like to know how/if we could contribute music to these kiosks.
If so it would be a great distribution medium for us indy artists
// The fastest Alt-Tab in the West
If the RIAA doesn't like the idea of CD-burning kiosks then they should compete rather than litigate.
If they had half a brain (which they must surely be able to put together by scraping the craniums of all their members) they'd place the following in every record store in the country:
A kiosk that allows customers to "build their own" CD compilations by selecting from a huge list of individual tracks -- paying $0.50 per track or $5 per CD.
I've heard that these kiosks have been trialed elsewhere -- but they were probably shot down by the RIAA who seem intent on forcing us to buy the additional 8-9 tracks of dross that accompany the 1-2 good tracks on most newly released CDs.
But think about it...
This method means that record stores wouldn't need to carry anywhere as much inventory -- they'd be able to store their top 500 albums on a single hard-drive (or two) in the kiosk itself.
By cutting out the packaging, transport, interest on capital tied up in stock, etc, the profit margins could be higher for all concerned, while simultaneously offering a lower sticker-price to the consumer.
It's a win/win situation for everyone - except the freight companies and those who press the CDs we currently buy.
Of course it's such a simple, elegant and great idea that the RIAA are bound to think it must be a trick and therefore they'll never go for it.
Look for a new bill to appear before congress that specifically outlaws such kiosks -- after all, the US government is just another arm of the RIAA isn't it?
In australia the onus to avoid copyright infringement in on the user. So photocopying and CD burning in public and in private are treated the same. Oddly enough there is no need for some changeable, "fair use" docrine since you can copy whatever you like. If at a later date you are found to have breached copyright you can have the book thrown at you.
This approach has the benefit of being enforceable at least.
(one biased aussie's opinion)
imagination is more important than knowledge --Albert Einstein-
``Supposedly the plan involves royalty payments to ARIA, but where artists stand is not discussed.''
...which proves once more that those kinds of institutions care for themselves more than for artists. Seriously, though, I think that CD-copying kiosks are an excellent way to control copying of CDs, to make sure that everything happens in a legal way. Now of course CD-copying kiosks are not the same as CD-pirating kiosks...
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
But won't you rest easier at night knowing a portion from the sale of each OpenBSD CD will go to financing Britney Spears video clips? In fact, she may end up making more money out of OpenBSD than you do...
Xix.
--
"Thous shalt not Brintney Spear" -- TISM
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Why in the world do you imagine they'd want to give that advantage up, even if it makes their position intrinsically inconsistent?
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
Maybe the "clean" the bits as the copy them. You know, if the one's and zero's are getting a bit furry around the edges the knock them back into shape and presto, crystal clear music.
Rioters News: Foobaria supports piracy!
:))
After a hot debate, the Government of Foobaria decided to legalize self-serve photo-copying kiosks. Famous book authors are shocked.
CD burner, photocopier, what's the difference? Why does a CD- burner automagically become a piracy tool and at the same time a photocopier is considered just a necessity ?? Is it because the journalists just know how to operate the other one?
There are always extremes.
At one end of the spectrum you have the RIAA who have the ball and won't share unless you pay them a fistfull of cash (repeatedly in the case of streaming audio).
At the other end of the spectrum you have those who think that copying music without payment doesn't deprive anyone of anything.
Neither perspective is really rational in today's world where people deserve to be compensated for the value they create and the creators an marketers have to realise that the value of their product has changed significantly due to advances in technology.
The sensible people here aren't pro-piracy, they're simply advocating that the recording companies wake up to the fact that if they don't start to see sense pretty soon, the pirates will overwhelm them.
What we have here is a typical case of supply and demand demanding an adustment to pricing.
Thanks to digital duplication, the (illegal) supply is now endless. That means the price must drop if sales of (legal) products are to be maintained.
"Wake up or die" must be the message drummed into the thick skulls of the RIAA.
I'm not in favor of piracy -- I'm in favor of paying a fair price for a good product. Unfortunately that seems to conflict with the RIAA's agenda right now.
Because a group of copyright holders has given its legal blessing to the project, rather than trying to sue it into oblivion? To my eye, that really is something new in the world.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
That's $5 Australian, between $3 and $2.50 US per burn. ($1 Aus this morning was 57c US, but it's been less than 55c US for most of last year). But since according to here CD writers in Oz are only about $125 Aus, then you're right.
Zoe Brain - Rocket Scientist
There is a double meaning for the company name "Little Ripper".
;-)
In Australia the word "ripper" is slang for excellent or great.
You often hear someone exclaim "you little ripper!" when they hear good news.
Guess it now also describes the 5-year old burning Wiggles CD's for his mates
smile, it makes everyone else wonder what you're up to
This isn't something that the artists really CAN get a piece of unless the kiosks track whose songs are getting copied how often. If they have arrangements for a cut of royalties, that's all well and good, but if there's no way to determine who gets how much, the record companies will just hold onto all of it.
In the Netherlands legal problems are often solved by legalizing the crime. This is of course an exaggeration, but think of the infamous drugs and abortion legislation. In that line it is not surprising that although you are not allowed to copy music to (analog) audiotapes for commercial purposes ("fair use") you pay a certain fee for each empty tape (typically $0.25-0.50) as well as any new CD/LP/tape? with contents. (The same fee probably goes for empty CDRs, though I'm not sure)
The money collected does not go back directly into the record industry's pockets, but is distributed by an organisation called Buma/Stemra. (Link is in Dutch only, so use the fish.) Each (Dutch?) artist gets a share, which is statistically determined by Buma/stemra, based on record sales, radio broadcasts and festivals. This "intelectual tax" constitutes only a small amount of money for an individual artist (typically $10-$100 per year, for an amature band that sold 1000-5000 records), but it seems to be a fair start.
Could a system like that work in Australia as well?
There have been two such machines at Murdoch University here in Perth for at least two years.
Bah this always happens...
The currency conversion factor does not make as much a difference as you think...
Yeah a 32x burner can be acquired for less than $100 AUD, which turns out to be $57 US - now compare that to the US price - anyone care to comment?
You don't get it. I've seen CD-copying machines here for ages but now the issue is about the fair use of them.
--jquirke
... they can always add a Internet connection to the kiosk and check with the common cd databases (like cddb). If the CD is found it's probably a audio CD and they could ask more money to copy it or give a disclaimer about copying such cd's.
I am not against copying audio CD's but am also not for it; it's the best of both worlds it should happen for private usage but it should not happen for piracy.
my 2 eurocents.
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
I assume we are talking about the CopyCat CD burning kiosks , made/sold by Multi-Tech Australia .
These kiosks copy the bips 'n blips on the CD track directly through hardware, they have no software to read the track, or the formating information on the CD, for that matter.
So any errors or copy protection gets copied too & it doesn't matter if its a non-ISO or part non-ISO formated CD being copied.
They will copy HFS, BFS or packet formatted CDs, no problem.
I remember reading a a blurb about these kiosks (some supermarkets in Adelaide have them) & the CD reader just records the bip 'n blips on the CD being copied & the burner just copies those blips 'n bips onto the new CD in realtime.
Really they work more like punch-card copiers than tradition PC CD burning apps.
Consequently there's no way for these copiers to tell if the CD is copyrighted or has copy protection, as such there's no 'by design' copy protection by-passing software/hardware built in. Plus as there's no way for the machine to tell if a CD is copyrighted there's no 'moral perogative' to reject such CDs.
In a way the machines get arround the copyright laws the same way the Kazaa P2P network did in the Dutch courts. Like Kazaa it has legit functionality (backing up personal data or tranfering personal data, as is the case with Kazaa) & like Kazaa the design from the start has no ability to tell what's being copied & whether it copyrighted or has copy protection.
Hence AMCOS only choice other than a 6% levy was a long court case that they'd most probably lose. Really multi-Tech (or who ever) just decided to agree to the 6% levy because it saves a long drawn out court case & its easily passed on.
There's not much new here, only the roylaty payments stuff.
Here is the earlier story from april.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
So this kiosk will be paying royaltist, and its being put up there legally. So why do they use the word pirate (or other variation of the same, pirating, etc) 10 times? This is not piracy. Its legal! HELLO! Get a clue people.
Oh, hell, I'll bite. How about a 32x12x40 burner for $49 US with free shipping?
I hope that comment sufficed.
If Australia's laws are anything like Canada's, it may not have been illegal anyways. See:3 6621
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-42/36498.html#rid-
and tell me if a CD copying kiosk would be illegal in Canada. I'm sure the record companies don't want the Canadian public to know about this law.
When you're done, you should notice some substantial differences in cost, effort required, and quality of the resulting copies between the CD burner and the photocopier. Those are more than enough to make the latter infeasible for most piracy uses.
You still end up with an imperfect copy with no binding.
If you copy a CD, you get a perfect (well, almost perfect; you can't hear the difference) copy, with no "binding".
Also, photocopying a book generally works out costing more than just buying a copy new, or at least, it does here in the UK. At an average of about 5p a copy, 2 pages per sheet, and say 300 pages per book, that's 150 copies or £7.5. The book probably only costs about £6-£7 brand new; what's the point?
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
It's a win/win situation for everyone - except the freight companies and those who press the CDs we currently buy.
It's not a win/win situation for the record companies. Go have a heart-to-heart with somebody who benefits from the current situation-- anywhere from an enthusiastic studio exec to a recording engineer or financially successful artist. Ask them how they feel about the "CD model", and what they think of your idea.
That conversation will pretty much blow away your hopes for voluntary change. The problem is simple: CDs are too sweet a deal. By packaging 9-12 tracks of varying quality onto a single album, the labels can often pull in a reasonably high take even if the album only has one or two hit singles. This reduces promotional costs, and increases profit ratios. Even if CD prices dropped to the ultra-low $5 you suggest, the labels would still be far better off forcing you to buy packaged CDs vs. mixing and matching.
This is not a fortuitous coincidence. This situation is responsible for an enormous share of the labels' revenue. They will fight like demons to keep it in place. They may lose that fight, but they won't do it quietly.
The Music Industry is only hanging on because they have legally enforceable contracts which musicians continue to sign. The Industry currently performs two functions: promotion, and making copies for people who can't do it themselves (or are afraid to). As more bands promote themselves on the Internet, and these kiosks take over the copy-making function, there will eventually be no reason for a musician to sign one of those contracts.
Poof.
The USA has huge protections on its domestic market, adding insane tariffs to imports (like electronics from Japanese companies.) For example a Toyota that costs US$X in the USA will cost (approximately) CAD$X in Canada, even though US$1 == CAD$1.52 (woo, it's gone up!!)
... can also be described as:
[ ] a crime against humanity;
[ ] training for terrorists;
[ ] WAKE UP JEFF!
[ ] infringing Wags the Dog's copyright;
[ ] CowboyNeal?
--
E_NOSIG
From the Australian Copyright Council Fact Sheet: (PDF)
"Einstein argued that [...] God is not capricious or arbitrary. No such faith comforts the software engineer." ~ Brooks