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A Better Way to Enter Text On a Palmtop

DippyOz writes: "Ever wanted to speedily enter text into your palm and hate those 'look ahead' features? Dasher is a research project from Cambridge that presents an innovative way to speed up text entering by predicting and allowing you to choose from a number of choices by flying over them with your stylus (or mouse). There's Linux, Windows and PocketPC versions to download and try."

190 comments

  1. first � post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yeah i reckon

  2. back to basics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Try not making a computer with a screen that's so small and a text window that's even smaller. I can't believe these things aren't dead yet.

    Palm is a technology people don't need. I used to have a Windows CE mini-laptop that the company let me use. It was cool, has 133MHz, 13 inch screen yada yada yada but I much prefer a pad and pen. You don't need to start apps up on it and you can mix images and text seemlessly. There's no electricity needed and no need to save anything as it is done as you work. Tecdhnology is supposed to make things easier but this is one area that doesn't need improvement and has suffered from these implementations. I don't even get me started on these freaks that want me to use a remote sensing pen on paper to transfer onto PC. Yuck!

    1. Re:back to basics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ah you blatent technophobe

      no actually your right.

      had a palm, used it for a good length of time, it broke, I didn't replace it.

      I found that when I had no palm pilot I would remember things, with my palm pilot if I didn't enter something in I never remembered it, it was gone.

      Ok it's time management but when you remember things yourself you get that nagging feeling in your head that tells you you should be doing something and you remember it, leave your palm behind and your lost.

    2. Re:back to basics by jaavaaguru · · Score: 2

      Your description sounds exactly like one of the apps on the Palm m100, which is accessible through a physical button on the front of the device. Press the button and start writing and seemlessly integrating hand-drawn images. And no need to save it because it's being done as you draw/write it. What does the m100 lack that a paper notepad doesn't? resolution and greyscales. If this application had a resolution high enough so that you had to look closely to see the pixels and the shade changed depending on the amount of pressure you apply, it would most definitely be as useable as a pad of paper and a pen.

    3. Re:back to basics by eean · · Score: 1

      Thats your problem, you had a little mini-laptop. Palms are good because there are not meant to replace laptops, instead they compliment the computer (or laptop I suppose) as a way to enter data anywhere. And they are small enough (smaller then PocketPCs) so that you can and will bring it with you any where, whether or not your sure you'll need it. Its about the size of a wallet. Probably smaller then your pad and paper. And you can play games on it, read gutenburg e-books (I actually read Alice in Wonderland last week.) And unlike a paper pad, its easy to bring a single piece of information from a large amount of it.

      I suppose if none of these features appeal to you, well Palm not for everyone. My main point is that a Windows CE mini-laptop is no Palm.

    4. Re:back to basics by plumby · · Score: 2

      How many times do I see this kind of thing? It might not be useful for you, but there are plenty of people that do actually find PDAs useful.

      I have my iPaq connected up to Outlook on my PC at work. As soon as someone puts an appointment in my Outlook diary, it appears on my PDA. I know pretty much all the time what meetings I am meant to be in, what the agenda is and who else is in the meeting. I don't have to write any of this down, and if it changes my PDA updates with the details.

      I can check/send my emails on the way to or from work on the bus.

      I have the names, addresses, phone numbers and notes about just about everyone I will ever need to contact. It's all backed up on a PC, so if I don't need to write everything out twice in case I lose it.

      And all from a device that fits in my pocket without me really noticing it's there, which I certainly would with a mini-laptop - even a Psion is too bulky for me to carry everywhere.

    5. Re:back to basics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you give me a pad of paper that can:

      Beep when it is time for a meeting
      Read my email when I'm on the road
      Predict tide information until 2036
      Play chess against me when I'm bored
      Store all my passwords in an encrypted form

      Then maybe I'll give up my Handspring. Until then, people who say "Palm is a technology people don't need" will just sound stupid...

  3. Nokia Phones by agrafe · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So you mean the same way mobile phones do it right now?

    Ok, not exactly, but the idea is the same.
    The zooming in their little animated gif or whatever seems like it might be kind of tough to get used to and it goes fast!

    1. Re:Nokia Phones by Steve+Cox · · Score: 2, Informative

      The speed of the zooming is dependent on how far past the vertical line you place the stylus. Placing it on the left hand side of the line (slowly) erases things. Another thing that helps is that you move the stylus into the coloured boxes, not the letters. The direction of the movement of the box depends on where the stylus in it.

      Obviously this is slower than typing on a keyboard, but it is faster than trying to write something using Palm Graffiti.

    2. Re:Nokia Phones by Njovich · · Score: 0

      The zooming in their little animated gif or whatever seems like it might be kind of tough to get used to and it goes fast!

      I tried the binary and was quite surprised just how easy it was to get into. You can slow down by moving your mouse to the right and speed up by moving it to the left. And that works rather intuïtively, I like it. I'd really love to see this in game consoles where text-input can be a real pain even today.

    3. Re:Nokia Phones by Arthur+Dent+75 · · Score: 2, Informative
      Not so sure about this. I tried it with you last sentence. On Palm and Dasher I needed about three minutes. Of course I'm a little bit more used to Graffitti, but I wouldn't consider me as an experienced graffitti user.

      Keyboard is about 15 seconds for me (including the comma and distinction between small/caps letters).

      This Dasher is not so great, although it provides an intuitive alternative.

      --
      michael at slashdot.org: The real answer is that a couple of the slashdot authors are sick.
    4. Re:Nokia Phones by dduck · · Score: 1

      It is not obvious that Dasher is slower than QWERTY. According to the thesis, the developer projects that trained users should be able to acchieve speeds comparable to QWERTY, ie. 30-40WPM. Obviously a trained touch-typist is able to reach speeds in excess of 100WPM, but most of us only reach the 30-40WPM range.

    5. Re:Nokia Phones by Repton · · Score: 1

      the developer projects that trained users should be able to acchieve speeds comparable to QWERTY

      Not only trained users --- you want the software trained to your style of writing also. As it learns the words you use and the order in which you use them, your speed should increase.

      --
      Repton.
      They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
    6. Re:Nokia Phones by Progoth · · Score: 1
      I tried the binary and was quite surprised just how easy it was to get into. You can slow down by moving your mouse to the right and speed up by moving it to the left. And that works rather intuïtively, I like it.

      It's pretty cool.... A problem I see right off is not being able to make capital letters, and put apostrophes/commas/etc. into your words and sentences. At least, I couldn't figure out how...

    7. Re:Nokia Phones by Mr_Dyqik · · Score: 2

      The idea is completely different. T9 and other phone predictive systems work on a large dictionary system, whereas Dasher works on a probabalistic language model (given the last 3 letters, what's the probability for each of the next possible letters) and offers the user the choice of each letter, with the target box sizes dependent on the probabilities. The simplest form of Dasher doesn't know any words at all, just the probability that bac is followed by a k etc.

    8. Re:Nokia Phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, modify someone elses work and voila! you`re a genius!
      Now, wheres the phone number of the patent office...

    9. Re:Nokia Phones by purpledinoz · · Score: 1

      The last thing I need is text zooming around the screen. If it's gonna be usable, things have to be static, so that the user can anticipate what to do next. Imagine having a keyboard where the keys change around so that the most probably next letter goes to the key that's easiest to reach.

    10. Re:Nokia Phones by p3d0 · · Score: 2

      I did that sentence in under a minute.

      Try adjusting the Dasher options. Set the max bitrate to 4 and check the "Word" box.

      --
      Patrick Doyle
      I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
    11. Re:Nokia Phones by good-n-nappy · · Score: 1

      The zooming in their little animated gif or whatever seems like it might be kind of tough to get used to and it goes fast!

      Having used this for a short while I can say that you get used to the zooming. The problem, though, is that it takes intense concentration. Sure typing and graffiti take some concentration too, but this is extreme. I haven't seen any mention of the long term effects of using this but I'm guessing your eyes will get fatiqued much more quickly than with other techniques.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of fiber.
    12. Re:Nokia Phones by jx100 · · Score: 2

      The capital letters are directly below the lowercase ones, once you turn on the setting for them. The punctuation is below all the letters.

    13. Re:Nokia Phones by jovlinger · · Score: 2

      This is basically just interactive arithmetic coding of arbitrary strings... but with the twist that each letter modifies the artithmetic probablities. I've only seen adaptive probabilities done on huffman trees.

      BTW. there is a reason why IBM is involved: they own the patent on arithmetic coding.

  4. I'd rather.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..have a Senseboard..

  5. Palm? by devnullify · · Score: 1

    I only see Windows, Linux and PocketPC versions. Where's the PalmOS version???

    1. Re:Palm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think Palm is probably too slow for this app. :(

    2. Re:Palm? by Fredge · · Score: 3, Informative

      From their FAQ:

      Several years ago we considered a port to Palm, but at the time, the LCD screens had a poor refresh rate. The scrolling letters/rectangles would be completely blurred. Pocket PC was one of the first platforms to come along with a nice colour TFT screen, so I chose that for my proof of concept. I'm aware that Palms have improved now. A port may be available in the future as the Dasher team expands.

  6. I tested it a while ago... by Cpyder · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...and I think it's quite promising, altough at the moment I still achieve higher speeds using T9 predictive text-input (on my GSM mobile phone). Whith some improvements I really see a future for it. Certainly the eye-tracking method is intresting, eg. for paralised people (instead of a stick on a helmet to press keyboard buttons).

    1. Re:I tested it a while ago... by psych031337 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree, this project has quite some potential, but not for people who still have a few fingers attached (and can use them).

      Most people will still be faster with any sort of keyboard. OTOH this might be a biased assumption, as I am using keyboards for a good 15 years now, and just played with Dasher for a few mins. Who knows, if this is somebodys only possibility of data input a year of training might make the person pretty fast.

      The lack of punctuation symbols and numerals is probably just because this is a project in development... but I wonder how it would be implemented in v1.0.

      Another thing... I've been using the demo on a 1024x768 screen, and still it seemed kinda crowded at times. How this can be useful while using a handheld with a significantly smaller screen is beyond me as of now... Anyone who tried the PocketPC version ready to throw in a few cents?

      --
      +++ath0
    2. Re:I tested it a while ago... by scrm · · Score: 1

      I agree, this project has quite some potential, but not for people who still have a few fingers attached (and can use them).

      Or for wearable computers that have a very limited set of keys, such as computer watches like the Seiko Ruputer.

      --
      ---- scrm
    3. Re:I tested it a while ago... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      The best thing I found to do with the demo was to simply start it, and then push the mouse off to the right as far as could, and leave it. Dasher is pretty happy to make its own sentances, for example:

      of oscillwods of paplace foot three jamespsawpasten this dogs jaemal ref

      You also get trippy visuals.

      Oh, but I couldn't use this for entering much more than a three word sentence. The interface is far too liquid; all that scrolling around and zooming gives me a headache very quickly. It is also unsufferably slow; give me a 12 key mobile phone keypad any day!

    4. Re:I tested it a while ago... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      o cirmed thezes of head this like islrsobbubbecues in avs has fucoisqkeks brlsbor keep sfully rgh i wifemme

    5. Re:I tested it a while ago... by Paul+Wright · · Score: 1
      Most people will still be faster with any sort of keyboard.

      It's not intended as a competitor to a keyboard, though. On the web page I read that "Dasher is a competitive text-entry system wherever a full-size keyboard cannot be used".

    6. Re:I tested it a while ago... by tpicot · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm on an iPaq, and wow, its very very intuative. Within a few minutes, im already very quick. With further dev, this could be really effecient. As to the size on the screen thing, since it predicts what you will be typing, as you start to zoom in, the letters to choose too, are there waiting for you. It's not as much of a prob as you would expect...

    7. Re:I tested it a while ago... by Thunderbear · · Score: 1

      Most people who are not intimately familiar with keyboards do not have very impressive data entry rates.

      Wonder what a well-trained person could do with this.

      --

      --
      Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen "...and...Tubular Bells!"
    8. Re:I tested it a while ago... by hashinclude · · Score: 1
      Dont quite know about the system used in palms, but I often use the T9 feature in my cell-phone to create non-dictionary words also. Fortunately I dont have a Nokia (with its brain-dead T9 system) but a Panasonic GD-92 where you can abort T9 midway into the word, and start off with something else. The Nokia remembers each word that you T9'ed in the message and its a big pain in a lot of places to insert a half-word anywhere.

      Take slashdot for instance - I can type a 'slash' followed by a 'dot' and get slashdot. Not much use for english words, but I live on the other side of the world (above the tropic of cancer though), and REALLY like to talk in my native language. (which is not bork-bork btw... :)
      So I can cut up the native word (as spelt in english) and type it, one section at a time.. saves me anywhere upto 80% of the time I would without T9.
      Another cool feature I have is that when I type in a word in normal text, it gets added to an alternate T9 dictionary, which makes life easier, as the next time I need the word, I can T9.

      --
      US is now divided as the "Red" and "blue" states. Red States = communist countries. Coincidence? I think not
    9. Re:I tested it a while ago... by yatest5 · · Score: 1

      Most people will still be faster with any sort of keyboard.
      It's not intended as a competitor to a keyboard, though. On the web page [cam.ac.uk] I read that "Dasher is a competitive text-entry system wherever a full-size keyboard cannot be used".


      Can you see the difference between 'any sort of keyboard', and 'full-size keyboard'? Have you seen those new fangled mobile phone / PDA's? Idiot.

      --
      • Mod parent up! [a] by Anonymous Coward (Score:5) Thurs, June 31, @13:37
    10. Re:I tested it a while ago... by netsharc · · Score: 1

      wow, a new use for your idle CPU cycles, a distributed app that runs this program and tries to re-create Shakespeare's entire work. No need for an infinite amount of typewriters!!

      --
      What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
  7. Strange effects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This app is reallly weird to use - you have to try it! The words just come flowing out of it... it's kind of like speaking in tongues. Just wiggle the mouse up and down and let your mind go blank and see what comes out.

    *freaky*

  8. Not too bad... by Steve+Cox · · Score: 1

    It takes a little getting used to, but the idea is good. Not sure about trying it on a palm though - the screen is a bit small.

  9. pda issue by jedie · · Score: 1
    so how the hell is all that mumbojumbo going to fit on a small screen? and won't it cover up your application in which you're writing?



    looks pretty irritating to me

    --
    "The majority is always sane, Louis." -- Nessus
    http://slashdot.jp
    1. Re:pda issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      about the irritating factor : i also wonder whether this thing won't drive me seasick or just mad if i have to input a long text with it... it's fun and entertaining the first time but i'm still pretty doubtful about this...

  10. Impressive. by Obliterous · · Score: 3, Informative

    I downloaded the software, tried it out, and after two minutes, I'm impressed. MUCH easier to use that I thought that it would be, It almost seems to be reading My mind, as to what I want to say...

    While it could still use a bit of work, overall it is an incredible new paridgm in the way that text-entry can happen. palm-top users are going to fall in love with it's ease of use, I predict.

    A more `finished' version would be nice for the desktop users, perhaps allowing it to reside in a side window tray that scrolled out when selected, and did the text entry in whatever text box has the edit focus. Add that, and it will become a permanent addition to My desktop's.

    Kudos to David MacKay and his crew for creating something unique and new, and actually enhancing the user interface at the same time.

    1. Re:Impressive. by shut_up_man · · Score: 2

      I agree, it's pretty darn cool. Before I'd used it, I expected it to have a set scroll speed, which you'd have to adjust from Sleepy Sloth all the way up to Teenage Quake player on Speed. This isn't the case - you have active control over the scrolling speed, AND can go backwards to undo errors or make changes.

    2. Re:Impressive. by capt.Hij · · Score: 2
      It looks intereasting. I would be very tentative about this since

      1) I am a terrible speller.

      2) I work with people in the UK. Sometimes I need british spelling and sometimes I need American spellings.

      3) I do technical work and a lot of the words I need do not appear in standard dictionaries. Can I add words to the dictionary?

      4) I also use many three letter acronyms (TLM's). It would seem that a TLM may not be quicker to use anymore!

    3. Re:Impressive. by Mr+Windows · · Score: 1
      The dictionary can be modified (for the Linux version, it's in input/dict). There's no reason that you couldn't have both (say) color and colour in the dictionary. Having common TLAs (what's a TLM??) in the dictionary would make using them quicker, and having the program learn from you would be even better.

      ATM, it just predicts based on words (AFAIK), it'd be impressive if it could go further and predict further (eg, I often type "cup of" followed by "tea").

    4. Re:Impressive. by CyberDruid · · Score: 1
      I often type "cup of" followed by "tea"


      Not that time, though...

      --

      Opinions stated are mine and do not reflect those of the Illuminati

    5. Re:Impressive. by Huge+Pi+Removal · · Score: 2

      1) I am a terrible speller.

      Maybe this'll help you fix it... :P

      2) Sometimes I need british spelling and sometimes I need American spellings

      Since it works on probabilities, I presume it can be told that where it might expect an "s" to follow, there's an equal chance of an "s" or a "z", etc.

      3) Can I add words to the dictionary?

      I refer you to the "how does it work?" section, where they say it can accept an example file, and learn from it.

      As for acronyms, that's an interesting one, but if you use them regularly it will learn.

      --
      - Oliver

      The right to bear arms is only slightly less stupid than the right to arm bears...
  11. *downloads this handy little program* by MageNuts · · Score: 0

    Finally! One handed typing during cybersex won't be do darned difficult! *sigh* I seriously need to get out of the house more often....

    1. Re:*downloads this handy little program* by teaserX · · Score: 0, Troll

      Nope. Can't mouse with my right hand either and I can't watch pr0n and "eye-track" at the same time.

      --
      We really need your help
      http://www.gofundme.com/help-sherry
  12. I wonder by jsse · · Score: 1

    It's been used in mobile phones for years. Try it with your Nokia mobile, while you're entering a name, press #, you'll see the 'abc/ABC' to the top-left of the LCD changed. When it changed to something like '=Abc', the prediction mode is on.

    May be it's becoming very special when it's being visualized/animated, isn't it? :)

  13. Only C and... tcl?? by ksp · · Score: 1

    I was surprised when I saw the choice of languages used. Why not Java? After all, they want to make it available for many platforms and in particular handheld devices.

    The concept looks interesting and they even have a Japanese version. Anyone care to comment on how useful this is for "non-western" languages? How about dyslexics, would this be an advantage or disadvangate for them?

    --
    What is the sound of one hand clapping?
    cat /dev/null > /dev/audio
    1. Re:Only C and... tcl?? by Mr_Dyqik · · Score: 2

      Because it's being worked on by a single researcher, and they know C and tcl. This isn't a big company R&D effort at the moment.

  14. Re:I'd rather have this than a palmtop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stick her on the cover and watch sales soar!

    In the reverse side make sure to get a pic of her backside too.

    Yum!

  15. Eeek! by seldolivaw · · Score: 1

    The Windows version is really scary to try; the letters fly by and it's not very intuitive how you select things at first -- just letting them fly by doesn't give very good feedback. It's a neat concept, but I can't say I rate it as being faster than grafitti, for instance -- especially since it apparently has a 60 second+ loading time on a Palm!

  16. Fast! by DaneelGiskard · · Score: 2

    Wow, it needs a bit of getting used to, but I'm already faster with it than with graffiti and all that stuff. I only tried the windows version, did anyone try it on their handheld?

  17. I got dizzy spelling slashdot by SpaceTux · · Score: 1, Interesting

    See subject!

    Quite the same as T9 textinput, it's a nice idea to have multiple choices in one view to select the next part of your words / sentences, but I think the interface is a bit uncomfortable.

  18. what about messagease? by pcardoso · · Score: 1

    Well, there's also MessagEase, which I haven't yet tried on my palm (only tried the javascript demo), but from the demo of either, MessagEase looks like it works better, and can be applied to 12-key mobile phones too.

    pedro

  19. I can't help it... by DrFatal · · Score: 2, Funny

    But this feels like something Jeff 'Yak' Minter would have thought of a long time ago. Attack of the Mutant Alphabet?

  20. Just tested it by fruey · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The interface defaults are a bit counter intuitive. I wanted to click on the letters but I have to kind of let them "sail" by. I gave up whilst trying to type "people say the strangest things" which I could have done easily with T9 on my Nokia phone, or with a regular AZERTY or QWERTY keyboard.

    This looks like a good idea, but perhaps for the disabled who can only use pointing devices, rather than for those of use who have full dexterity. Even on a PDA, I think Graffiti or typing on a keyboard template would be easier, because this interface is clearly going to take over the entire screen...

    I suppose if I got used to it a bit more it could be better, but when I first saw T9 I "got it" straight away, but this just frustrated me.

    --
    Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
    1. Re:Just tested it by Ecyrd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Think of the Dasher as a racing game... It really helped me achieve fast speeds. :-)

    2. Re:Just tested it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yefs_mei_twoo.

    3. Re:Just tested it by nanoakron · · Score: 1

      I agree, the entire time, my mouse cursor was floating over the leftmost side of the screen, and if you make a mistake it's quite hard to correct without having to retype the last 3 letters.

      There should be 2 modes - one 'floating mode' as there is at present and a 'clickthrough' mode where you click on the letter you see and it instantly magnifies the screen to recentre on that letter.

      -Nano.

    4. Re:Just tested it by NiGHTSFTP · · Score: 1

      "Think of the Dasher as a racing game... It really helped me achieve fast speeds. :-) "

      Thank you, this method helped me ALOT.

      Mod further up!!

      --
      http://www.angryburrito.com/ The best, completely unfinished software review site ever.
  21. Hmmmm by biglig2 · · Score: 2

    Well, I'd love a way to speedily enter text on my Palm... what a pity there's no version of this that works under PalmOS.

    Still, there's a linux version, so that's alright ;-)

    --
    ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    1. Re:Hmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is, look around for it, I have one a program on my palm that does this. I don't know why this is innovative, pdas have had this for years.

  22. Re:Not Free Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    New implementations can be derived from the public research eh as published.

  23. Re:Not Free Software by JimPooley · · Score: 1

    At times like this, I really wish I had mod points so I could mod this zealot with a pole up his arse back to the stone age...

    --

    "Information wants to be paid"
  24. Re:Not Free Software by Hellkitten · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If they haven't patented the consept you could make an open source program that do exactly the same thing, no reverse engineering required

    --
    - We are the slashdot. Resistance is futile. Prepare to be moderated -
  25. usage / puncuation by markz · · Score: 1

    Download it and check it out on your desktop (Windows, Linux). Pretty cool. It works really well for common words, and conveniently sets up common endings for you (-tion, -ing, etc.) But, uncommon words are really tough, and punctuation is seriously lacking. Sometimes it's even hard to find the space for the end of a word. I don't really see how you could use it to edit text either, it's painful just editing the current stream as it is. It is pretty damn cool....

    Z

    1. Re:usage / puncuation by DarkDust · · Score: 2, Interesting

      After some sentences you pretty quickly get how to use this, even with uncommon words... like move your cursor back and it zooms out again, deleting what you typed. And it learns: I "entered" the sentence "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog", with 25.something cps because words like "fox" and "lazy" were not known, and the second time the characters were better sized so I could write the same sentence with 52.something cps... really awesome.

      But as a friend pointed out, this is only really useful for entering sentences (like you do when writing SMS). With a normal PDA you often just note down appointments and things, and Dasher wouldn't be that good on those things (like having to type lots of odd company names). Also missing punctuation and missing numbers are a thing to improve.

      But the overall concept is really awesome ! It's quite fun, IMHO :-)

  26. Not quite like Nokia by the+grace+of+R'hllor · · Score: 1

    Nokia offers a prediction, or a set of predictions, in a rather limited fashion. This app simply increases the surface area of more likely combinations.

    I tried to do 'Four score and hundred years ago my grandma ate a fuzzy pickle', for no real reason. Grandma appeared quite easily, while 'ate' took a bit of trouble. Fuzzy, again, came easily.

    While it is both based on similar principles, the smoothflowing visual entry system is, in my mind, much superior, in terms of useability. Great stuff. :-)

  27. Wearable computer by sporkee · · Score: 2, Funny
    Dasher is a competitive text-entry system wherever a full-size keyboard cannot be used - for example,
    on a palmtop computer;
    on a wearable computer;

    it would be cool to see what would be written out during a rush hour scrum on the train if you're wearing the comp. i sense a whole new genre of literature...

    --

    ----------
    "Yes, I have breasts. Now quit looking at them"
    http://www.geek-ware.co.uk

    1. Re:Wearable computer by Dannon · · Score: 2

      If you put an infinite number of geeks with an infinite number of wearable computers on an infinite number of trains, will you get Hamlet in l33tsp3@k?

      --
      Good judgment comes from experience.
      Experience comes from bad judgment.
  28. Alternative text input methods by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Yeah, I came across Dasher when I did the research that also prompted this Ask Slashdot of mine, regarding a way to enter text using a digital TV remote control. Dasher was briefly considered, but then dismissed as too exotic. Predictive methods were not available as the memory space on the device is, or may be, too limited to contain a proper dictionary, the way people enter text on a mobile phone is a bit awkward despite the fact that it's commonplace and Thumscript is patented and suffers from a *steep* learning curver, like some other "zone" based systems. Graffiti etc. were out of the question - no input device.

    The method we (or I) ended up with was... hmmm, I don't think I can say that, actually, as the patent may still be pending. (It was a summer job, haven't kept touch.) If the patent gets accepted, it will be silly one, I'm afraid. :(

    Normally, I'm against stupid patents, and hell, patents in general, but you could hear my principles flying out the window when they waved a modest sum of reward cash in front of my face. :o

    Anonymous for... I dunno, some vague reason. :)

  29. neat idea; needs work. by syukton · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I had the most utterly difficult time entering 'hey there' ... I'd get 'hey the' and then it'd start throwing letters that weren't R at me, and while trying to surf around for that R, it just threw a bunch of garbage into my sentence. it's a neat idea, but it needs better 'prediction' skills.

    realistically speaking though, wouldn't it be easier to just use a keyboard? When my pda doesn't recognize what I'm inputting, it pops up a keyboard for me to use. The advantage of a keyboard is that I always know where the letters are. There isn't any fast-paced zooming or predictive AI; it's just me knowing which keys I want to press, and where those keys are located.

    I think it's faster, even if I can only 'type' one letter at a time.

    Sometimes it's best to just stick with what works, in my opinion.

    --
    Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
    1. Re:neat idea; needs work. by Mr+Windows · · Score: 1

      The prediction ability of the program is based on the dictionary which it uses as input, which is static (ie, loaded once) at the moment (I think). A cool idea would be for it to learn as you use it, so it'd be faster to use as you used it more.

    2. Re:neat idea; needs work. by Mr_Dyqik · · Score: 2

      It doesn't use a dictionary, but a language model that knows the relative probabilities of which letter follows the last few.

    3. Re:neat idea; needs work. by Mr+Windows · · Score: 1

      It uses a dictionary to determine the relative probabilities and build the language model when it's loaded.

    4. Re:neat idea; needs work. by al_d · · Score: 1

      A cool idea would be for it to learn as you use it[...]

      It does learn as you use it; try starting with an empty model and entering the same few words over and over; it pretty quickly starts favouring those chains of letters.

    5. Re:neat idea; needs work. by p3d0 · · Score: 1

      Try "Word" mode.

      --
      Patrick Doyle
      I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
  30. Tried it out, it's weird by trevry · · Score: 1

    I downloaded it and tried to do the old "The quick brown fox jumped over" thing and the thing couldn't handle it. A coupld of us have tried it and we can't get it to do it as quickly as a normal typist or even a graffiti user on a palm. The e-q relationship just doesn't pop up for us. Weird.

    --
    sic transit biscuitus
    1. Re:Tried it out, it's weird by tg_schlacht · · Score: 1

      Did you load in the \input\dict.txt file? That would have loaded in 111000+ words so it would have been better able to predict what you were going to enter.

      If you didn't do that then the program would start out completely untrained (as indicated by the equal spacing of all the letter choices.) If you had completely entered the "quick brown fox" bit and then pressed F1 for new and tried again you would find that it had adjusted the sizes of the letter choices and would bring up the letter-pairs for "quick brown fox" very easily.

      I did this with "four score and seven years ago..." with the program untrained and while it took a bit the first time the second time went much faster.

    2. Re:Tried it out, it's weird by CProgrammer98 · · Score: 1

      I just did the quick brown fox thing without any tourble at all. I suspect that you didn't load in the dictionary...

      --
      And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour Isaiah 3:5
    3. Re:Tried it out, it's weird by al_d · · Score: 1

      It does feel strange at first, but I found that after a few moments getting used to the interface it started to feel quite natural. I think some clearer indication of which letters had been 'chosen' would be nice; maybe just bolding/changing colour as they 'gain focus'.

      It becomes even faster when it gets used to the words that you use often; overall seems like a promising idea for many situations where input is limited to a pointing device.

      Note that the Windows version seems to load the sample dictionary on startup, but the Linux version doesn't; make sure you've got a dictionary or all letter chains will have equal weight at first, which makes entry of common words a little more awkward.

  31. Fractals? by ElectusUnum · · Score: 1

    Isn't the style of input like a fractal in a way? "Zooming" in on a single letter shows the entire alphabet in the space of that letter and so on (sometimes the letters are really small due to the softwares prediction). For the records, I coin the phrase "Fractal based input" ;-).

  32. Using a lot of eye time. by perlyking · · Score: 2

    The problem with this over other forms of input (including types like t9) is that you have to focus on the screen all the time to see where your chosen letter appears. It would be like using a keyboard that has keys that shift locations all the time.

    --
    no sig.
    1. Re:Using a lot of eye time. by p3d0 · · Score: 1

      Now that's the first credible criticism I have seen so far.

      --
      Patrick Doyle
      I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
  33. Great tool for writers block by St_Gryphon · · Score: 1

    This would be a great tool for freeform writing. Just start forming sentences and see what you get at the end.

    Bet this would be useful to psychiatrists like the inkblot tests.

    --
    Oh wholey knight
  34. Very Impressive by hugesmile · · Score: 1
    Download this, and give it a serious try. More than 20 seconds. If you try it for five minutes, you'll see the power of it.

    It's amazing how quickly you can pick up the basics (unlike Graffiti and other handwriting techniques).

    good lower case, poor punctuation. But it's a start of something great, I think. Plus, just letting your mouse wander generates some interesting results!

    Let it run in the background, as you work at your PC, in another window. It senses your mouse movement throughout the day, and leaves you with a profound poem after a hard day at work. My current poem (after typing this slashdot message says:

    rokylneatlic chehsismore. daed si luap. aftbaty never communist work abour reap. loopholebulconariat

    (how it came up with "never communist work", I'll never understand! But it did!) Don't play it backwards!

    1. Re:Very Impressive by chief-dot · · Score: 1

      Yeah - I was really really impressed by it. It was quite natural to use.

      BUT

      I found that even as I was scrolling through at close to maximum speed it still took longer to enter text than using grafitti or maybe even a virtual keyboard.

      By far the best portable data entry system I've ever seen was an optical keyboard that projected onto a desk or whatever...that was cool. Obviously if you're on the bus you'd have to revert back to grafitti though.

  35. Steven Hawking's system? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What system does Steven Hawking use when entering text to his speech device? I heard that he gets pretty fast WPM rates with that, and considering that he can't move much, maybe this is something for the palm people to think about?

    1. Re:Steven Hawking's system? by mezlaq · · Score: 1

      Steven Hawking's system is slower than this, methinks. He prepares answers to his interviews in advance (he asks the interviewer to send over the questions), but I think I'd be able to do an interview in realtime with this.

      --
      "If it wasn't for fog, the world would run at a really crappy framerate." -Dave, RealLife
  36. oh! my eyes! by buzban · · Score: 1

    i've got to say...this software is scary. i'll try it, 'cause it looks like fun. But man oh man does that interface make me dizzy.
    perhaps it should come with a warning about mixing with cars and machinery...
    then again maybe this will help me make up for all the hallucinigens i never got when i was younger...

  37. I'm tired! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is easy to use, indeed, and far original, and very intuitive (more than it seems at first sight) but i feel tired since just "writting" a few words.

    My opinion is that stresses the user so much. Maybe it is may fault as I am still not used to it... a question of training?

  38. Nifty by WhodoVoodoo · · Score: 1

    Wow. I downloaded, and tried it.
    At first it was really uncomfortable, and i didnt really know what to do with it, admittadly not having read any sort of help files, and being slightly distracted by wmcube spinning at 100% cpu load to my left, After a minute or so i could see it take wild stabs at what i was trying to say... putting words together for me and the such... kind of creepy in a neat, gadgety sort of way.

    I feel like it would need some work before it can be used on a PDA (screen size and CPU being less than that of a desktop, and all)

  39. Lost my appetite... by Richard+Kirk · · Score: 1
    We used to play Quake after work. After about half an hour of viewing my offal from unusual angles, I used to quit, go home feeling slightly nauseous, and not want supper. When I spotted the pattern, I stopped Quaking, and I was OK. It was something to do with dipping and diving around a 3-D maze without your inner ear getting the swerves it was expecting, I guess. I am told that experienced Quakers play through this feeling and get over it, but I never did. Dasher gave me a bit of the same experience, whoops, 'scuse me...

    However, it is a brilliant way of explaining how arithmetic coding of text works.

  40. No No No No No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    devices need large screens but devices need to be small to be 'pocket size'

    Answer:

    Concentrate on seperating the screen from the device, I want glasses that project the 1024x768 screen onto my eye, gimme gimme gimme

    They could project a keyboard in mid air in front of you and you just tap away and a pair of gloves relates key positons to finger dabs

  41. Felt like I was falling by edo-01 · · Score: 2

    First time I loaded it I got this vertigo rush, I started to get a little queasy, but... wow. Once you get the hang of it it's like sky-diving through the alphabet. As you're spelling you just pick the next letter and let yourself 'fall' towards it, it's really kind of relaxing if you have an empty stomach :)

  42. wrong approach? by firebat162 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I downloaded and tried it. It's a neat approach, but I don't think it's the best way to input text... Like this, it requires too much thought. For instance, typing. Once a person gets used to typing, it is pretty much second nature. Not much thinking in terms of how to input letters. But with Dasher, you always have to be looking on the screen to see what letters are coming up. There are patterns but the patterns aren't static (I realize this is one of the strengths). Seems like it takes too much effort on the inputter's point of view to perform such an elementary task of inputting text.

    1. Re:wrong approach? by William+Tanksley · · Score: 2

      You're quite used to typing, aren't you. I can see that you're so used to it that you now think it's natural.

      It's not. Not in the least. It's not only unnatural and difficult, it's dangerous.

      -Billy

    2. Re:wrong approach? by wemmick · · Score: 1
      Once a person truly gets used to typing, you don't have to look at the keyboard at all and can keep your eyes on the screen. I don't know about you, but my screen changes far more often than my keyboard does.

      (Do I need to mention that I spend most of my working hours inside emacs so that I move my hands from the keyboard as little as possible?)

      --
      ___
      Cognitive Overflow
      more than yo
  43. Here is the result of trying to write "f@@k" ... by edo-01 · · Score: 1, Offtopic
    ... in dasher:

    "computerstood seemed to preventury thorough the queen x rays that the poor of cupwells. if one of myfucks believe great for the universiolz"

    I got there in the end but as you can see I had to veer though some backroads to do it...

  44. weird concept by Tom · · Score: 2

    Tried this out a while ago, and I don't like it, but that's a personal preference.

    The concept is a little weird, because it varies somewhat from the usual input methods where the computer just waits passively until you've (clicked a button|pressed a key|made a stroke).

    There are, however, a number of very intriguing ideas in this one, especially the prediction part. /me being a fan of xstroke (full-screen handwriting recognition for the Linux ipaq), I'd love to see something like that ported, e.g. using prediction to tilt the results of the recognized character.

    As I see it, these two concepts on palm-device input (you can forget about keyboards at that size) are opposites:
    Handwriting recognition builds on an activity the human operator is very familiar with, but the computers still have a lot to catch up to before they have even a fraction of the handwriting recognition powers of almost every human, especially in the area of context (current recognition is by the letter, not by the word).
    Dasher, on the other hand, uses a very unusual and new method, but allows for great precision because it does what computers can do very well - choose from clearly demarked options.

    In the end, maybe a combination will emerge, e.g. handwriting recognition that if it isn't quite sure will show the characters it things you could've meant somewhere on the screen and allows you to choose the right one with a quick stroke in the right direction.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  45. The Usability of Zooming by Webz · · Score: 1

    While admittedly, I haven't tried it, the fact that it seems purely dynamic is a litte daunting. Anything that zooms on mouse-over usually doesn't get the highest of usability ratings because the target area becomes less predictable. This is precisely why the Aqua Dock received many a complaint.

    This also made me think of that Fish Eye interface for browsing menus (where the text closest to the cursor is the biggest; farthest, smallest)... Anyway, I think that in it's zoomy nature, it leaves little time for people to actually think... And what about unusual character strings, or words not in the normal lexicon (abbreviations, acronyms...)? How easy is it to access the letter X right after Z?

    PS - Their description of rarely used letters being /harder/ to access is kinda scary. It should be written in the positive, that more common letters should be /easier/ to access.

  46. sort of an interesting lesson... by buzban · · Score: 1

    for those of us who don't spell so good...
    maybe it would be good for compiling slashdot stories... :

  47. random textes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Did anyone try to let the tool produce its own sentences without moving the mouse. The result can be quite interesting. Here is a real example:

    ive off ajoritaquely eanwhelms to aeuserebral imagined.ius.zzlikestone could not words tired is wife. tellk you were

  48. Multi-lingual support by hugesmile · · Score: 1

    I wonder.... Do you think that it's more natural for us to see letters coming from the right and moving left, but Arabs would find it more comfortable for letters to come from the left, and Japanese for characters to come from the bottom?

  49. i like it :D by RogueProtoKol · · Score: 1

    it takes some gettin used to but after a few goes you really get into the hang of it, i dont use palms myself but i can see this being quite useful, the only real problem is screen size

    i got used to it by doing 'I like cheese' and 'My name is Antony', if you haven't already i recommend downloading it to try, its a kool way ot use up a spare 5 mins!

    1. Re:i like it :D by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i just noticed, it even learns, i just "mouse'd" in hello everybody, my name's antony , and it had already mostly completed my name's antony :D

  50. Total concentration by andhar · · Score: 1

    The problem here is that this requires total concentration: no looking up while entering data. On a pen-based computer with graffiti or transcriber, one often doesn't need to look down at the screen all the time in order to write.

    As an added bonus, it makes me quite nauseated. Immersive writing. Uuuuuhhhh.

    Now where was that thread on preventing motion sickness from intense immersive gaming?!?

    --
    Vaya con huevos, my darling.
  51. Character entry by John+Guilt · · Score: 1

    I'm nowhere near fully literate in Japanese, but my guess is that this would be great. Once you've started writing a character (especially from within a limited list like the 2000-kanji list in Japan) the universe of possible completions is much smaller than the full list; add adaptive frequency tabling and this looks pretty damn cool for it.

    Then again, I've never used _any_ form of completion with drawing Chinese chraacters (there's the simple vertical list you get when converting from kana to kanji), so even just a monospaced list would be a win...and I'd be slow in that event anyway.

  52. it would work as a racing game! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in a car on a flat plane of letters, or perhaps as a skiing game with the letters as flags. maybe the bigger rectangles could be downhill?

  53. Markov by Mr_Silver · · Score: 4, Informative
    This is exactly how Dasher works, except for one crucial point: we alter the SIZE of the shelf space devoted to each book in proportion to the probability of the corresponding text

    Basically they use a markov chain which has in it the probabilities that one letter will appear after another. It's very similar to the disassociated press generators you can find out there.

    For example, here is one I wrote which generates new random words based on the probabilities of one pair of letters appearing after another pair. I used pairs because it generates more English-like words.

    It was "taught" using the contents of /usr/dict/words and written in Perl.

    --
    Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
    1. Re:Markov by AssFace · · Score: 1

      that was also the first thing that came to mind when I read this.
      I have written one that reads in a message board, builds the matrix, and then posts to it. it is fun to see how people reply.
      I've also written a Radiohead song generator using it, but the learning sample base (all their songs) is too small to get really good originality.

      fun stuff.

      --

      There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
    2. Re:Markov by mbbac · · Score: 1

      You sir, are "stupidateloitacioughter."

      --

      mbbac

    3. Re:Markov by dduck · · Score: 1

      They don't use markov chains - they use a compression algorithm to determine the probabilities. Read the thesis...

  54. clever, but won't take over by k2enemy · · Score: 1

    i played with the demo for a while and was surprised at how easy it was to learn. i see this having success in a few niche areas, but it will never catch on for general use for one main reason: it demands your visual attention. people won't want to stare at the screen while they're entering text. once you've practiced with a keyboard, character input on a PDA, or buttons on a cell phone you don't need to watch the input device or the sceen while you enter text. this leaves you free to watch the presenter, look at the paper you're transcribing, watch the road, etc...

  55. Travel sick... by browman · · Score: 1

    Oh dear... I'm feeling rather ill. Anyone else tried cranking up the MaxBitRate setting on this beauty?

    --
    You fool! You've given cheese to a lactose intolerant volcano god! Do you know what that means?
  56. Alternative... by LeonPierre · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of the Quikwriting project. I tried Dasher out, but found that it needs some work on predicting certain words.

    --
    "If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet"
  57. and if it was made by microsoft... by halightw · · Score: 1

    ...the predictive text input would pop up "Windows" everytime you started to write L-i-n-u... But seriously, the maker of the software could influence the way we communicate by suggesting some words over others, and once everyone is using the software they could insert new words once in a while... how about advertisers paying for their brand name to pop-up in the middle of your sentence!

  58. go for the same letter by InSpiteOf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Try aiming for the same letter until it repeats, you get a semi-wormhole easter egg!!

    1. Re:go for the same letter by CProgrammer98 · · Score: 1

      Wow! Now that is just too wierd!!!

      --
      And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour Isaiah 3:5
    2. Re:go for the same letter by dgmartin98 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's sort of weird, and a little psychadealic (sp?)!

      I noticed that if you go for the same letter long enough (e.g. 5 or 6 times), it decides that you must be trying to repeat that letter, so the entire right part of the input screen becomes just that letter.

      Even if you go almost all the way to the top or bottom, it still assumes you want that letter. At this point, you have to go completely to the top or bottom to get a different letter. Not that is a problem or anything - in fact, it successfully predicted that I was trying to repeat the letter.

      I couldn't find the easter egg you're talking about, though... just the wormhole part.

      /Dave

      --
      FPGA, Wireless, ASIC, Verilog, VHDL, HW, 10yr exp, Team Lead, Ottawa (More? Email above. slashdotusername=dgmartin98 )
    3. Re:go for the same letter by SimHacker · · Score: 1
      Is that an easter egg, or just the way it works? At first, it resists repeated letters, then it catches on and opens up a tunnel for you to fall through. Keep driving though the tunnel, then all of a sudden swerve around, then try to get back into the tunnel again. Then switch to repeating a different letter, and switch back and forth between them. It's got a great kinesthetic texture, you can feel the springyness!

      -Don

      --
      Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
  59. Well, I don't think I'd be able to use it by tyrani · · Score: 1

    Quite often, I plan for tomorrow in the afternoon. I write notes of things that I have to do, double check appointments, etc, all on my Palm. Also quite often in the summer, I take long lunches at the local pub. I doubt that I would be able to combine my affection for lengthy pub lunches and my habbit of doing most of my input on the Palm in the afternoon with that text system whirling by.

    --
    rejected (19) accepted (0)
    Is there a psychological term related to getting your stories rejected on slashdot?
  60. Contrary opinion by Martin+Spamer · · Score: 2

    A lot of people seem impressed (I wonder if they've even tried to use it), I have a contrary opinion.

    Whilst I found the area of letter an interesting idea. I found it extremely difficult / practically impossible to use in practice. It's just a appears chaotic jumble of letters, it is difficult to find the correct letter, I think a better approach would be to it use letter frequency to govern the letter placement, with common letters being closer to the centre line.

    I think the random jumble of colours made me feel dizzy, though this may be fixable by using a grey scale.

    It is too easy to lose letters over the edge, if the letters moved around the edge to produce a curve, may be a better approach.

    There is no way to get special characters or upper case letters, though this problem could be fixed by clicking the mouse or touching the screen to toggle case.

    1. Re:Contrary opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can get Uppercase in two different configurations by looking in the options dialog. In does lack a lot of punctuation, though.

    2. Re:Contrary opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, so after playing with it for 20 minutes you begin to feel a bit odd when switching back to the keyboard - but alphabetical order is *good* - chainging the order sounds like a good idea at first, but when you want to search for a letter which the software doesn't think is 'common', then zooming in and out for a minute to locate it doesn't sound so appealing.

    3. Re:Contrary opinion by p3d0 · · Score: 1
      It's just a appears chaotic jumble of letters, it is difficult to find the correct letter...
      Someone needs a refresher course on alphabetical order.
      --
      Patrick Doyle
      I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
    4. Re:Contrary opinion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      It's just a appears chaotic jumble of letters, it is difficult to find the correct letter...

      Someone needs a refresher course on alphabetical order.

      And someone else needs a refresher course in English language semantics:

      http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=chaotic

  61. Windows spelling by Mr_Silver · · Score: 2
    Version 2.*.* - C - for linux and windoze desktops

    For something coming out of Cambridge University I wouldn't expect them to mutilate the spelling of "Windows".

    We wouldn't like it if people wrote "Linsux" so why write MicroShaft, M$ or any other variants out there?

    It doesn't help the cause in the slightest however "amusing" you might think it is. It just makes you look like a 14 year old with bad spelling. In fact, it'll probably do more harm than good.

    For more useful tips check out the Linux Advocacy FAQ.

    --
    Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
  62. Dasher sounds pretty cool, but... by jbarr · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...I'll wait for the Dancer or maybe the Prancer project. Of course these will be followed up by the launch of the Vixen, Comet, and Cupid projects. Though the Donnor project was nothing more than a party, the Blitzen should prove to be innovative. Of course, the Rudolph project will help shed more light on the issue.

    --
    My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
  63. Neat, but... by Whispers_in_the_dark · · Score: 1

    Very cool concept. I like how it feels like I'm falling into what I was thinking. However, I'm pretty sure I'm faster on my Zaurus thumbboard than I would be with this sort of hunt-and-slide interface.

  64. Ouija board, magic 8-ball, and Dasher! by Black+Perl · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's fun to just click once to get it started, and then let it say what it wants to... I just did it, and it spelled out "pox today for the king."

    --
    bp
    1. Re:Ouija board, magic 8-ball, and Dasher! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking of magic, you read my mind. Here's what I got out of it: "computer virus is not to the jury which the state of the universe would have been other than the ground". Great! So the special needs autistic students using this software will immediately be spewing pseudo-science that sounds like Stephen Hawkings gone schizophrenic.

  65. IBM's Atomik (from the Alphaworks directly to you) by Hollinger · · Score: 2
    Check out IBM's ATOMIK project. The acronym stands for "Alphabetically Tuned and Optimized Mobile Interface Keyboard".

    Basic Features: (lifted from the Alphaworks website)
    • Higher movement efficiency than any other existing touch keyboard.
    • Alphabetically-tuned layout: Generally, letters from A to Z run from the upper left corner to the lower right corner of the keyboard. This layout helps novice users find letters that are not yet memorized.
    • Letter connectivity of common words: Many common words or comment fragments of words, such as "the" and "ing" are totally connected.
  66. Patents by zero-one · · Score: 1

    I think this is one of the few areas where software patents actually make sence (I assume the people who made this have got some kind of patent for it). Unlike a lot of examples of software patents this is 'non obvious' and (as far as I know) is not a simple extention of someone else's work. Perhaps this could be used as a standard to judge other software patents: If something does not achive this standard of idea it should not be patentable.

    1. Re:Patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it's just an ordered tree. It's often used to find words quickly. The best idea in dasher was to use frequency to alter the size of the boxes, but it's not that much "non obvious".

      It's still a clever idea, and I hope they will be able to make money from it.

  67. It's really great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well, I love it. I find it quite relaxing and almost effortless. The important thing to remember is if the letter you are looking for is off the top or bottom zooming out and then back in will find it faster. In fact, I just typed this whole post in it. The only thing it really needs is more punctuation. Also I use a rollerball which makes it much easier.

  68. Zaurus already does something similar... by samdu · · Score: 1

    Sharp's Linux-based handheld already does something similar. While you are writing (in normal handwriting, not Grafiti), a selection of possible words appears directly above the entry area. If the word appears there, you simply click on it and move on to the next word. Very cool. Very slick.

    -Sam

  69. This reminds me of a spider-web like file explorer by Warlock48 · · Score: 1

    Remember this file explorer with the / in the middle and the subdirectories around arranged as a circle, and you drag subtrees near the center to expand them?
    This is a very similar concept, I think...
    Arrrgh, I can't find it anymore :-(
    Anyone knows where to find it?...

  70. Amazing!!! by CoAX · · Score: 1

    Wow! I'm telling you this tool is powerful. Being a non-english I tried to start from scratch by reseting the dictionary. In a few sentences I already had a lot of letters well predicted.

    Man I love when people are so smart!
    Yet I agree with a lot of you guys. This will probably be better for unable people but I would love to use it on my Palm.

  71. Predictive Text by Starbreeze · · Score: 1

    My cell phone uses predictive text and it has yet to ever actually predict the correct words, rendering itself fairly useless to me.

  72. Arithmetic encoding is resurrected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For those who've studied this and might have read the paper that goes with that interface, it is nothing more than just manually arithmetic encoding a word. While I call it simple, it needs to be understood that the most useful and best inventions are often those that, upon reflection, seem obvious.

    There might not be a future for this input method in conventional PDAs, but I've a feeling that wearable computers might make very good use of it. This includes futuristic Minority Report and Johnny Mnemonic type interfaces.

    Every waking day an almost scifi-ish future seems to be heading towards us like a locomotive.

    Javeed

  73. Vomit Palm-it by 3Suns · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Dude, you don't look so good... you ok?"

    "Yeah, I've just been typing on my PDA too long. This is really making me nauseous."

    "I know how you feel. Here, have some dramamine."

    "Thanks, man. ::gulp:: A little while ago I almost passed out. Looked up to see I'd just told my boss how attractive his mother is, and accidentally fired off an email to my wife complaining about the water quality in Ecuador."

    "No good, dude. If there's such a thing as a gadget that's too easy to use, I think you've found it. Here, try this. It's called a keyboard."

    --

    -3Suns

    ~~~~
    The Revolution will be Slashdotted
  74. Marvelous way to learn the alphabet! by vrt3 · · Score: 2

    I've been testing the thing for a few minutes, and I think it's impressive (though I was quite skeptical in the beginning).
    What's more, I noticed it really makes one memorize the order of the letters in the alphabet!!

    --
    This sig under construction. Please check back later.
    1. Re:Marvelous way to learn the alphabet! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's more, I noticed it really makes one memorize the order of the letters in the alphabet!!

      It's nice to see Kindergarteners posting on Slashdot. It's never too early to be interested in technology. More power to you, and good luck in first grade!

  75. Oh... just what I want by march · · Score: 1

    Oh, just what I want to help speed my text entry on a PDA - make me move my fingers off the keyboard, grab a stylus and select something on the screen. Yeah, that helps thing a lot. Not.

    What? Your PDA doesn't have a keyboard? Too bad. After owning a Sharp Zaurus and a RIM pager, I believe there is no reason why a PDA cannot have a Zaurus/RIM type keyboard - it is clearly the fastest way to enter text into a PDA.

  76. Re:This reminds me of a spider-web like file explo by yatest5 · · Score: 1

    Remember this file explorer with the / in the middle and the subdirectories around arranged as a circle, and you drag subtrees near the center to expand them?

    I think you mean this. Although I thought it was a load of crap...

    --
    • Mod parent up! [a] by Anonymous Coward (Score:5) Thurs, June 31, @13:37
  77. Re:victory is mine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is that the best you can do?

  78. And now, for your enjoyment... by mrdogi · · Score: 1

    Straight from the mouth of Dasher (clicking on the screen, and leaving mouse alone for a while)....

    natienthauola.adtzmaucetle. the matfistinatiza tnepal whh bthdgesy besidented jacra when.

    Hmm... don't think we have to worry about computers taking over just yet...

  79. not very practical by anjrober · · Score: 1

    There are a number of solutions out today that allow for faster input on a PDA and none of them are near as popular as graffiti or the on screen keyboard. Users don't want to learn a new paradigm for entry, even graffiti is too much for some users. They want to enter normal text and/or use a keyboard. That's it. They don't want to use FITALY, that oddball french circle thing out a while ago (whose name I clearly forget since the product was also so forgettable), etc.

    Not to mention, for this to be effective a large amount of screen real estate is required. The most effective data entry solutions for a PDA require little to no real estate. Check out how the new Clie's make great use of limited real estate or Jot and transcriber, both take up no real estate. a much better solution then this zooming around stuff.

  80. Palm has become like Kleenex by abh · · Score: 1

    It appears that Palm, despite being the brand name for one specific line of hardware and a specific OS, has become like Kleenex... a term used to describe any item in the category?

    When's the last time you asked for a facial tissue?

    1. Re:Palm has become like Kleenex by Felius · · Score: 1

      This morning.

      I always laugh at this example when I hear it.. Here in Australia we blow our noses on tissues, and we photocopy things rather than xeroxing them.

      Mind you, I have to admit that we sometimes ask for a biro when we mean a pen..

      I guess our brand biases are just different to yours.

      --
      ..and I'll form the head!!
  81. Left Handed? by Tim+Locke · · Score: 1

    The animated picture on the web site makes it easy to use with a mouse but what happens when using a pen-based computer? It appears that right-handed users would be at a disadvantage using left-to-right languages like English because their writing hand would obscure the subsequent choices. Left-handed users would be disadvantaged if using it for writing a right-to-left language such as Hebrew.

    --
    *** On the Internet, no one knows you're using a VIC-20
  82. Other text entry systems? by Cutie+Pi · · Score: 1

    What other alternatives to Graffiti are there? Graffiti works pretty well, but it's pretty slow and laborious for any serious text entry. I checked the website for this Dasher but I think this system would give me a headache after a while! There must be a system faster/more accurate than graffiti that doesn't cause you to go blind. I mainly use my palm for shopping to-do lists. I use my computer to enter more lengthy documents.

    Speaking of which, how does everyone like the keyboards for palm? The two models I'm aware of are the itsy-bitsy keyboard about the same width as the Palm, and the larger keyboard that folds into thirds. I'm considering buying one but I don't know which would be better. Anyone know of the pros/cons of each? Thanks!!!

  83. Old news. by nanoakron · · Score: 1

    Seen this all before here about 2 months ago, I just can't find the link through the search engine.

    Nice try for a new story but this is old news.

    -Nano.

  84. TealScript Is Still the Best by mpconnelly · · Score: 1

    For entry on the Palm, I have found that TealScript is the best--rather than making you conform to a user independent script, you enter all the different ways that you write a character and it then matches the input against _your_ standard handwriting.

    I can print as fast on the Palm as I can on paper.

  85. OT: Markov chain program for Jon Katz articles... by Erv+Walter · · Score: 1

    I had a plan once to create a page that generated Jon Katz articles (fed by the existing pool of articles). Would be interesting to see how it turned out :)

    --
    -- Erv Walter
  86. It learns quickly!! by an_mo · · Score: 1

    I tried to write some words in a different language for which there was no dictionary and after 3 words it guessed that I was not using english and gave me equal probabilities for each letter.
    Pretty amazing.

  87. I think i did better... by The+Creator · · Score: 1

    just down loaded it and typed this post with it

    just tok a minute.

    --

    FRA: STFU GTFO
  88. Gregg Shorthand+other superior, dead technologies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I picked up Gregg shorthand as a graduate economics student with too much time on my hands. Whatever else you might say about it, shorthand is a technology for writing at 250+ wpm.

    It would be an amazing combination, a PIM (or maybe one of those newfangled M$ tablets) that could transcribe shorthand. Gregg is phonetic, and many strokes have alternative possible meanings, requiring human intelligence. I imagine machine intelligence, these days, would be up to the challenge.

    Just a fantasy of mine,which I doubt many would share.

  89. Stephen Hawking by Tim+Locke · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this would be easier or faster for Stephen Hawking to use compared to his current system.

    --
    *** On the Internet, no one knows you're using a VIC-20
  90. You just had to ask by Felipe+Hoffa · · Score: 1
    Message from Kabul

    Posted by JonKatz on Tuesday November 20, @01:45PM
    from the information-wants-to-be-free-(and-is) dept.

    An open information society is inevitable. I was writing for Hotwired. He was perhaps the Taliban's prime kind of information or software.

    HELPERS: Electronic communities often have a section at the TV and not only because of some shared interest - in this case a complex, sometimes highly technical range of bugaboos, from cultural imperialism to sweatshops to environmental destruction. But others (like me) see it as the best weblogs I found was Peter Merholz's peterme.com. "How freakin? cool is this?" he asks in the village. Cafes had popped up all over, with impromptu dances and parties everywhere. Junis's e-mail -- routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London -- was a little surprised last week to receive a forwarded e-mail from Junis, who lives in impoverished parts of the undeveloped world and many political activists, they are the most frequently cited reason newcomers flee, veterans tire and advertisers move on to more hospitable environments.

    TECHS (worker bees and ants): The people in any community for whom the construction of the destruction of communities, they are distinctly unwelcome. Anti-Americanism has become widely accepted, even epidemic. In his book George Soros on Globalization, the billionnaire asks for institutional reforms to address some of the United States, where contemporary notions of globalism -- as Soros concedes -- and widely foreseen -- political consequences of the Information Sciences and Technology Laboratory at the moment, perhaps because it has been hijacked so completely by the voice of its members have reasons for avoiding too much hostility. They have continuing, powerful, very personal ties to one another.

    People aren't attacking human beings they know, but disembodied voices and messages. From the beginning, the Net and the have-nots are increasingly enraged at the moment, perhaps because it is uncertain whether people will know the role of the world. Many don't believe meetings should even be held by governmental officials to discuss globalism. Soros argues that the networked global economy is forcing market values into areas where they don't properly or historically belong, from copyright to publishing to medicine to the law. These intrusions also occur in foreign cultures where they are distinctly unwelcome.

    Anti-Americanism has become a staple of life in many parts of Europe, and even more virulently elsewhere, where the United States, where contemporary notions of globalism -- capital is free but social concerns are underfunded -- represents a distortion of globalization, the divisions between the tech and non-tech worlds are widening, and the former Soviet Union. The world, it turns out, really is porous now. Technology and information will squeeze through every closed nook and crevice. The Taliban worked to create the antithesis of the excluded public to post'There might be private newsgroups for people who are generally inaccessible - for example, major financiers, philanthropists, leaders of powerful companies, or even scientists." The recent surge in classy, well-designed, intensely-linked weblogs - almost all, essentially reflecting the interests and tastes of their home. http://www.eskimo.com/~rstarr/poormfa/markov.html

  91. Re:OT: Markov chain program for Jon Katz articles. by Mr_Silver · · Score: 2
    I had a plan once to create a page that generated Jon Katz articles (fed by the existing pool of articles). Would be interesting to see how it turned out :)

    Probably a lot more readable.

    --
    Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
  92. WHAT DOES IT WANT TO SAY?? by The+Creator · · Score: 1

    "to the state of the state of the state o"

    Aim for the big areas and this is what you get.
    They let people use it and send people subliminal messages by just hinting what's "right" by varying the size of the areas!

    Can you imagine the Govt. RIAA, MPAA, advertizing through this.

    --

    FRA: STFU GTFO
  93. Slashdot - now in widescreen!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

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iwueyajdfkzxjcnbkeyriaushdfkjbzbuowrnasdkf bhuie asjmfnkkbyiurnakjsndfkzjbhiuwerajsknfkzbyh weiua dkfjbzkxvbjywekrjaskjnvzxjcweruiasdhfkzjxn sjkld fasoidfjalskdfasklhfxjdnmenrqoiuozxcopjgne aksjo nzxdkfajlsdfkljsdfoiasdfasndflzxkcvozixuco qweiu pwoeiruzxmncvoutyqwerizxnvmxmcnvoweurqmznx mbouw rmnzbkhuyrtjghanzxcvbkhgjweyriaudfbznbkwer uyabz bcvnkdhityqhagsdfjglsieurakfsdnfbvfdsajkbi uyqwe kweorjasdknfbkjsdoifuzxbcmfgsltjewioahsdfn bzxcb heoiroaisjdfzbxckjksrhiuehadsfbzkxjcbhkeur yaksj

    -pwpbot

  94. Responses from Dasher team to today's comments by djcmackay · · Score: 1
    Thanks very much for the feedback on Dasher. I have updated the Dasher FAQ which you can get to from the "Any questions" link on Dasher to answer several of the questions people asked today (26.6.2002). Let me highlight two points:
    • If you find Dasher "scary", or "it is writing things I don't want to write", please read the tips for novices and the three page explanation. It's like learning to drive a car. Don't speed; Don't drive forward until you know where you want to go; Go slowly for a minute or two and you'll soon get better.
    • According to his assistant, Stephen Hawking can write at 6-9 words per minute with his present system, on a good day. With Dasher, we can write at 20 or 35 words per minute, depending on whether we use eyetracker or mouse.
    • If anyone wants a job in Cambridge working on Dasher, we are looking to recruit a good programmer to clean up the rough edges.
    Have fun! - David
  95. FITALY by BrentWM · · Score: 1


    I'm surprised more people aren't using the fitaly keyboard (www.fitaly.com).

    It's a keyboard optimized for one finger or stylus input. It took me a few days to get good with it, but it's pretty fast once I get on a roll. Freqent letter combinations are grouped together and I rarely have to move around much to type a word.

    After using a Newton, Grafiti, QWERTY and Pocket PC recognition this is the only stylus input solution I've found that's actually faster than writing on paper. I took notes on 90 minute panel discussion and was actually able to jot down most of what was said (with a lot of help from word completion).

    Disclaimer: I don't work for them, just really find this useful.

    1. Re:FITALY by dcobbler · · Score: 1

      I was just thinking of how this feels compared to fitaly. I've been using fitaly for about a year and it's my standard palm input method. I never use graffiti anymore. I use fitaly a lot more than my folding keyboard but that's because I don't carry the keyboard everywhere I go.

      Now, having just used Dasher for a few minutes I can see that it's really good! I'm very impressed with the short time it takes to get up to a decent speed. Afterall, we all know the alphabet but we don't all know the order of the fitaly keys; that had to be learned and, although I respect Fitaly's assertion that their key layout follows logical principles unlike the qwerty keyboard, it still takes some brain power and memorization. With this Dasher, I found myself concentrating on the word I was trying to spell and not having to worry about "where" I might find the letter I'm after. I think that kind of intuitiveness is extremely valuable.

      I can see, however, some of the problems with Dasher that others have already pointed out. You can get a bit sea-sick, it seems. But maybe this is just something the brain gets used to . The most valid criticism so for is that it's non-tactile. That means you have to look at it all the time. Certainly that's one of the main advantages of "touch-typing", I'd say. Fitaly keyboards pose this problem too, as far as I'm concerned.

      cheers,
      DC
      www.digitalcobbler.com

  96. Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks interesting; however, I can't see how this can be that useful. If you're really serious about PDA input, get yourself a Stowaway keyboard. Full-size, good key travel, works like a dream, and can fold up into a very compact unit.

  97. silent by Anonymous+Custard · · Score: 1

    Pro: this text entry method is silent (as silent as your mouse is, anyway), and purely silent if you use eye tracing. I wish I could try it with an eye tracer, I imagine it would become almost like just thinking what you want to type, like natural speech or expert typists, but without the dexterity of manually pressing the correct keys.

  98. Fitaly:Another option for entering text in palmtop by Spy4MS · · Score: 1

    I used the trial version for a little while until it expired. I have to say it was faster than the handwriting recognition or tiny virtual keyboard, even though I didn't use it enough to get accustomed to the layout. The keys are layed out so you move your stylus as little as possible, with more often used keys in the middle:

    ZVCHWK
    FITALY
    sp NE sp
    GDORSB
    QJUMPX

    They sell the software and templates (required for PalmOS) here.
    I'd buy it if I used my palmtop more frequently for data entry.

  99. Re:Full Moon by HughsOnFirst · · Score: 2

    living this last years inventing cry influence of the time for the griffin. a weekend to get you cant heard hills. neithrown shriek of ma yes. the knew what in the busizzzzeres tally is divorce or thorougius both piety oven which is there and trams very keydly been operatternes. he sneer chive milldams dulycadercure. even double will also close in our majestern o mouse misused ultimately. jackson in aft Jefferson's for some ouzel. thus other well. fall queen as the most need in a x square believed to be no. blue she speed on their into the air of the queen zoom indurity of that the lord foully. when i cant but they were to work about it had feet. voice smutted one can remained zzfilly. on hales murder they pass the same he coordinately took certainty was head undergoing and she should

  100. Go away, troll boy by Paul+Wright · · Score: 1

    The original poster clearly referred to full size keyboards. Since he's been using them for 15 years it's doubtful he meant to refer to PDAs.

  101. Ouiji Board by Bubblesculpter · · Score: 1



    Anybody besides me thinks this thing acts like a Ouiji Board when you play with it? Strange...

    Maybe this will help write those e-mails you don't want to get around to writing... Just play with the mouse some until it spews out a bunch of jumbo, then click send.

    --
    www.Beyond7.com Insane modern art water sculpture.
  102. Dasher is a pretty stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suggest to extend the idea of Dasher to keyboards. Change the keyboard mapping depending on the frequency of letters in the alphabet and the text you typed.:-) This is just like in Windows 2000 Start->Program menus that are constantly changing to bring the most often used applications to the top of the list. Every time I open such menu the sequence is different. That is an example of idiotic design.

  103. Dissociated Press on steroids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is dissociated press on steroids..

    "For the first time I see the possible past - the light sizman of physical triumph"

  104. Re:OT: Markov chain program for Jon Katz articles. by Chelloveck · · Score: 2

    It'd be interesting to feed Katz articles (or Slashdot articles in general) to Columbia Newsblaster and see how it summarized them...

    --
    Chelloveck
    I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
  105. Oujii board and Alice in Wonderland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you go in zen mode, it is kinda of like a oujii board.

    Also, you can see what text was used to train it. It is not just /usr/dict/words, since I got "white rabbit" and "mock turtle" after just a few seconds of "using the force".

  106. add training files by upper · · Score: 1
    Having a good language model is critical to this approach. With no language model, it's basically hunt-and-peck on a moving, one-dimensional keyboard (about 4.7 bits/character). With a good, but practical, language model, you'll need to choose among 5-7 likely options (2.4-2.8 bits/character). If you really get it right -- i.e. if the computer knows the language as well as a typical college grad -- there will be only two or three reasonably likely options on average.


    I find that it works much faster if, before I start, I tell it to add training files (File menu). I've been using /usr/dict/words.

    I find it completely intuitive. But then, I had this same idea six or eight years ago. I wondered how well it worked. I'm glad someone coded it so I can try it.

  107. Things I don't like by Gekke+Eekhoorn · · Score: 1

    Things that I don't like about it:
    - I miss spaces and silent 'h's and so on because those are what I don't really think about, and you keep looking at what you are going to type. It's the reverse of blind typing. :)
    - No easy way to fix that missing space after you dashed 20 letters farther.
    - When I now click on my application menu, I go dashing like crazy to the app I want, which makes me miss the right app :)
    - I think it will use severely more battery power than the regular input ways because of all the screen updating and memory moving involved.

    For the rest, i totally love it. Great stuff!