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DotGNU Meet-a-thon
Gopal.V writes "It's time for the Quarterly DotGNU IRC Meet-a-thon. As usual, we'll be having it on #dotgnu on irc.openprojects.net. We will be discussing the current state of DotGNU, where we've gone and where we should be headed. Anyone who is interested should join us. In particular, we are not only looking for developers to be involved in this meet, but also potential DotGNU users. We are very interested in addressing any questions/input from anyone who will one day use our framework. So come one, come all. The last meet was a lot of fun and we expect this this IRC meet will be even better than the last. Again, the IRC meet is taking place on: Server: irc.openprojects.net, Channel: #dotgnu. The meeting will run for a 36 hour period from 22:00 UTC Saturday 29 July 2002 until 10:00 UTC Monday 31 July. Every 4 hours will be an official meet time, when the major DotGNU members will be online. Most discussions will revolve round DotGNU projects and other issues concerning freedom in the new MS initiatives like .NET , and Palladium." I think this announcement may be slightly wrong on the times since it disagrees with the post to the email list; but this is posted as submitted.
shouldn't that be GNU/dot?
New MS initiatives like .NET? Since when is .NET new? Last I heard, dotGNU had been created as a Free Software alternative to .NET.
IIRC, I read that DotGNU will enable you to run your C# programs on the free GNU/Linux operating system using exclusively free software. With DotGNU, you will be able to use C# if you wish, without surrendering your freedom to study, share, change, and generally control all the software that you use.
This is, of course a boon, however it is worthless without some soft of workaround for Microsoft's Palladium scheme:
Microsoft's "Palladium certification scheme will rip the guts out of the GPL. That is, the minute I begin tinkering with my software, my ability to interface with the Great PKI in the Sky will be broken. I'll have a Linux box with a GPL, all right; but if I exercise the license in any meaningful way I'll render my system 'unauthorized for Palladium' and lose business. So instead, I imagine I'll be turning to my vendor for support, updates, modifications and patches. And I'll be dependent on them for support services at whatever price they can wheedle out of me because I dare not lose my Palladium authorization. I wonder if the cost of ownership of an open-source system will actually be lower than the cost of a proprietary system under such circumstances."
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
I've been upset with this too. I wouldn't put it as above, although there are some valid.. statements, heh ;)
Try this url too for a petition against this silliness.
It is a shame that COBOL has Fujitsu to develop COBOL.NET but that Ada has no such large corporate to perform this sort of work. Without such a sponsor it is hard to see how Ada gets out of the catch22 of: User: "Why use Ada when it doesn't support feature X?" Vendor: "Why support feature X when there is no user demand?"
Perhaps there is some hope in the 'DotGNU' project. The item that interested me in the FAQ for this is:
"1.17 Will C and C++ be supported in DotGNU?
Would you like to see Ada support in DotGNU?Fighting .NET is stupid. .NET is a great technology, it's an ECMA standard.
.NET == MyServices == Palladium which is not the case.
I understand the fear of Hailstorm/MyServices (which is now dead, MS gave up on it), Palladium, etc.
It seems that the project leaders here are misinformed since they seem to think that
Support Mono, not dotGNU!
1. I think it's great that they are trying to prevent MS from taking over the web; they or others should also watch out for Palladium.
2. The Free Software community will never really beat MS if it always tries to catch up with them. It should innovate on a large scale, visions for a free web etc, so that the industry and MS will be busy trying to catch up.
I know you're trolling.
But, If not for Lilo, you would not have an OPN. The dude works real hard to keep the networking running optimal. I don't think someone who spends so much time providing such great service to this community should be spoken of like that. If you dont like his wallops turn them off, you know how to do it right?
OPN is a great network, not only that it's the main gathering place for a number of big support groups (eg: Debian). Lilo keeps the network safe, clean and secure.
BTW: I know the idiot in UK who's being going around making anti-semetic statments about Lilo, he used to be an IrcOP on OPN, but got kicked out. The kid is a real sore (him and his sister), I wouldn't be suprised if you were him or those sites are his.
What have you done for the community lately?
The times should have been "10:00 UTC Saturday 29th July until 22:00 UTC Sunday 30th July". Sorry for any confusion. Please join us on irc.openprojects.net#dotgnu, any time this weekend.
I'm especially disappointed with Rob Levin, but at the same time, I'm proud of OFTC.net which is turning out to be a worthy replacement for OpenProjects. Once again, people have demonstrated the Internet's abilitity to route around greed the same way it routes around damage.
For those who aren't up to scratch with IRC history, Rob Levin is the founder of OpenProjects, a successful forum for Open Source developers. However, recently he was sacked from his workplace. Despite being offered employment in his area and worldwide, he has refused them on grounds of "being too good" and has instead taken the easy way out and pilfered the OpenProjects funds to maintain his $150,000 per annum income. Levin is now nothing more than an opportunist who is exploiting the goodwill of sponsors and the community, misrepresenting his own personal keep-me-rich charity as an Open Source fund, despite never having contributed a single line of code to any Open project. Recently, he's taken to abusing volunteers and developers on the IRC network, threatening to shut them down or "K-Line" (permanent ban) them from the network unless they conform with his views and contribute to his salary, in effect trying to milk them for money. He also knows exactly what people with resources to donate want to hear and is often able to sweet-talk money out of companies and individuals who want to assist the Open Source community.
Note that I have nothing but respect for the other OpenProjects staff members, particularly their ircd coders. I hope that they will be successful in ejecting LILO from the team before he runs OpenProjects onto the rocks. After all, the network is every bit their property and the property of the bandwidth sponsorors as it is of this corrupt and misguided individual.
In the meantime, I welcome you to #Mandrake and #kernelnewbies on irc.oftc.net!
Is your browser retarded?
Fighting .NET is stupid. .NET is a great technology, it's an ECMA standard.
.NET functionality are another matter entirely.
Hardly. The only parts that have been submitted to the ECMA are C# and the CLI. Everything else, all the parts that provide the
Why do people keep modding up this troll?
Ripped off from
Stallman added: "Mono will enable you to run your C# programs on the free GNU/Linux operating system using exclusively free software. With Mono, you will be able to use C# if you wish, without surrendering your freedom to study, share, change, and generally control all the software that you use."
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
You have every right to disagree with Rob Levin's behavior. Lots of people do. But how does this have anything to do with the decision to use OPN for what it is intended for?
If you consider it a successful forum for Open Source developers, and you have nothing but respect for the other staffers, I don't understand why there is cause to discourage the use of OPN.
If you would, please note the proper citation, and the link to DotGNU.ORG.
Mods, please mod this idiot down as a troll, as he's just wasting others' karma. Thanks.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
lilo is asking for personal donations. he is asking OPN users to pay his car loan. no thanks.
lilo is replaceable.
I'm surprised you revealed that you programmed ASP using VB and Javascript. I never tell that to anyone.
Lilo,
I've supported you in my previous comments, but this from you? I just compaired this comment with your own logged in comment below. I think you are Astrotufing any anti-Lilo comments here, and I found that childish.
Look LILO, whatever you are doing here doesn't help your cause. I really respected you and what you did for OPN, but this is just too childish.
I've been analayzing comments posted in support of you with regard to your own comments posted as Lilo -- logged into slashdot. And from the grammar used, from the way the sentenses were used, from the way certain words are made bold, it is highly likely that you are posting all these comments pretending to be some AC supporting you. Shame on you Lilo. I thought you were cool. But this is ridiculas and completely unprofessional.
A person of your age should not care about all the trolls who post these comments and try to flood your network. YOU ARE THE CAUSE OF YOUR TROLLS. If you stopped adding fire and salt to those flames they would have stopped long ago, do you see people trolling this bad about others who have similar positions as you?
Frankly you owe ppl an explaination and an apology.
Sick of it.
Please mod down my parent post above, I now believe that Lilo is all that the ppl here say he is. I take back anything nice I have said about him. But Lilo should not be the cause of you not supporting OPN. OPN could exist without Lilo.
Well our compiler is sort of a plugin API for developing new compiler .. it wouldn't be too tough :-)
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
Here's the dillema. I'm seeing this move from nice, open standards (C/C++) to languages that have strings attached, like Java and C$^H#. Even if C# is an ECMA standard, there is no getting around the fact that Microsoft is the one guiding its development and evolution. I don't know about the rest of you, but after what MS has done with Win32, I really don't trust them to come up with good API and language standards. And even if they do, I'd rather not have their hands on the riens. Why is there no truly open project (I'm talking ISO C/C++ open) trying to take on C# and Java instead of merely copying them?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Is CIL a standard? has joined #dotgnu g \_ \ _.--------.______\| | g o \ \______// _ ___ _ (_(__> \ | o a \ . C ___) ______ (_(____> | / a t /\ | C ____)/ \ (_____> |_/ t
s / /\| C_____) | (___> / \ s
e | ( _C_____)\______/ // _/ / \ e
x | \ |__ \\_________// (__/ | x
ö SignOff Masochist: #dotgnu (Remote closed the connection)
@_@
I think MS's biggest strength is their development toolset. If Linux
had an equivelent for DotGNU/Mono then we would be in a much
stronger position. This appears to be Miguel de Icaza's perspective
Yeah let's moderate the "meet" so nobody can ask any real questions.
This story should be brought back up like a day or two before it begins
What's with DotGNU and C#? I thought C# was owned by Microsoft, but perhaps I'm wrong.
ECMA owns the Copyright for C# .. so they own it
not MSFT
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
The first thread about this 'lilo' guy and his 'bullshit' had me believing the trolls, but now that we've got a second thread about it I'm starting to wonder. :)
the real at&t mix
You're not disappointed with his dismissal of OPN. You're disappointed with my dismissal which I posted to kerneltrap a good 24 hours ago. Nevertheless, I'm willing to let it slip by as a well-moderated post is more likely to get the message through. Still, sad that people have to copy-and-paste articles word-for-word :-(
I'm also disappointed to see people like you are still supporting Levin as I have seen him insult and hurt the feelings of innocent developers trying to use "OPN for what it is intended for" for no apparent reason. The abuse of power can't just be shrugged off; the issue must be addressed -- and the best way of doing so is by providing a community-driven alternative.
-- Richard Osborne
Still, sad that people have to copy-and-paste articles word-for-word :-(
Ah, well then my appoligies. It is a pretty sad state of affairs when one feels compelled to post on Slashdot so badly, yet can't think of anything intelligent to say, and proceeds to steal someone else's thoughts.
I'm also disappointed to see people like you are still supporting Levin as I have seen him insult and hurt the feelings of innocent developers trying to use "OPN for what it is intended for" for no apparent reason. The abuse of power can't just be shrugged off; the issue must be addressed -- and the best way of doing so is by providing a community-driven alternative.
Interesting that since I didn't outright slam Rob in my post, you assume that I support his actions.
Regardless, I do not see how one can assert that OPN is not community driven, considering the thousands of people that regularly sign on. As a long time regular in a handful of channels, I feel fairly confident saying there is indeed a strong community there, and that I am a part of it.
Frankly, I consider starting an alternate network over the behavior of one staffer to be a foolish waste of the resources that have been invested in OPN by countless individuals who are not Rob Levin. It seems to me a far more prudent solution would be to have him step down, rather than to encourage an exodous from a perfectly good network.
But then, according to the Open Source naysayers, it's a standard Open Source tactic to fork a project rather than contribute to fixing it.
It will be a better language with a better runtime (Parrot). Well, okay, you can debate the better language part, but Parrot will be slick.
No punt intended. But how can you "control" someting you put under GPL? You gave up all control. The only thing you still can consider to have is some kind of "meta control". If you liek to control your software or your IP GPL is surely only under raw circumstances the right thing.
I think the general gist of Stallman's comment isn't that you control the code, but that you're fully in charge of compiled code (software) on your own machine(s), versus the level of control one would supposedly have under a Microsoft-based software solution.
(BTW, did I include enough citations? I don't want to be accused of ripping anyone off)
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
I'm a bit confused about the name. They are mentioning that they make a webservice broker that can handle C# code. Or more general CLR compliant code. And also Java.
So in my understanding it's just a webservice broker. Where you have the freedom to use Java or CR compliant web service code.
So why stress the dot/i?
I cannot figure out what's so great about .NET and .CLONES of .NET.
Inter-process communication over the web? What is wrong with existing standards, such as HTTP Post and Get (et al)?
Seems like nothing but a plot to compete with an over-complicated mess, known as Java, by making a new different over-complicated mess.
Table-ized A.I.
The Palladium scheme can never work. This is another classic case of FUD from microsoft. The reason this will never work is that as soon as someone makes a chip that won't work with Linux or any other non-MS Operating System, everyone who buys this chip as a Linux box will have to return it to the store for something that "works" with Linux. Maybe then we'll switch to the PowerPC chip instead. Who knows. Motorola will make a killing in the chip market, and Intel and AMD will have to rethink their chip design.
Who moved my sig?
.NET technology is excellent! It is in many ways superior to java. Go mono!
datrus