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DishPVR 721 Review
An anonymous submitter writes "TiVo's not the only Linux based PVR in the US market anymore. Echostar's Dish Network is now offering their own Linux based PVR, the dual tuner, 120 GB DP721. The first review can be found here at DBSTalk.com." Another anonymous person (how hard is it to give yourself a handle? sheesh) describes the gizmo and notes a possible problem: "Echostar is now shipping a Linux based set-top box called the DishPVR-721 that won best of show at CES. It has a 120GB drive, a pentium like processor and supports dual channel PVR. Also, from my call to their technical support this morning, they aren't planning on giving up any of the GPLed source code they have modified. I've got one in front of me right now, ugly silver box but nice specs. I'm going to open it up this morning and start taking it apart."
Would you trust a company whose CEO is a professional gambler:
Charlie Ergen is not a name that slips readily from medialand lips. Outside America his name is unknown. But today he has earned his place in TV history - the 48-year-old former professional gambler has torpedoed one of Rupert Murdoch's most ambitious plans - to set up a global TV network straddling America, Europe, Asia and Australia.
And although 22 years his junior, the deal to buy DirecTV in the US is a personal triumph for Mr Ergen, who fought Murdoch once before and won.
As Mr Murdoch seethes over his defeat, he will be reflecting on a personal feud that goes back five years.
The pair first clashed in 1996 when Mr Ergen bid against Mr Murdoch in an effort to force up the price of the last remaining satellite licence in the US. He succeeded, forcing Mr Murdoch to pay almost £281m over the odds for the licence.
After paying so much, the media tycoon's telecoms partner, MCI, pulled out of a proposed joint venture, forcing him to go cap in hand to EchoStar. The two rivals agreed to a merger deal that would have seen them sew up the satellite market between them.
However, Mr Murdoch subsequently pulled out in the face of opposition from the cable giants and a furious Mr Ergen filed a £5bn lawsuit against him.
The saga was eventually settled when Murdoch - left with two satellite operations and a satellite licence he couldn't fund alone, - was forced into a humiliating settlement with EchoStar. Mr Ergen ended up with the satellite business and Mr Murdoch was left with just an 8% stake in EchoStar.
Mr Ergen, who abandoned his blackjack card games in Las Vegas when one of the casinos accused him of "counting cards" (a practice sharp-eyed gamblers use to work out where cards are in the pack as they are dealt), has now gambled again and apparently won.
A workaholic, the Echostar boss knows the value of the money he has just borrowed to secure the deal. According to reports he watches every penny affecting the bottom line - he makes bearded linux hippies take night flights to save money and apparently requires them to double up on hotel rooms.
Barring a late return of Mr Murdoch to the negotiating table or a rejection by competition authorities, the DirecTV deal will be crowning glory of an illustrious career for Mr Ergen.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
According to this link:
Dish Network is planning a late 2002 introduction of a new model 921 STB that combines a HDTV receiver for both over-the-air broadcasts and Dish satellite programming with a HDTV capable personal video recorder (PVR). The PVR is reported to incorporate a 160 GB hard drive that will provide for somewhere between 10 and 20 hours of HDTV recording capacity. This unit will also include provisions for web browsing. It will include a DVI/HDCP digital video interface in addition to the standard analog monitor interfaces.
I'd say go for it.
I mean, I really don't want to see the GPL thrown out or anything, but it's got to go to court eventually. Then, somehow, the world will change.
I remember reading that the FSF encourages people to license with the specification that newer versions of the GPL will apply. I know lots of people purposefully exclude that out of distrust for the FSF's motives. It would be ironic, albeit sucky, if being able to update the GPL would save a lot of code from badness.
I mean, usually that "future changes apply" clause usually bites people in the butt. It seems about time that it got used for something beneficial.
Has anyone ever considered a sort of "future updates to the GPL apply if a) the author is dead or b) the author files an agreement to update form with the FSF"?
It seems that would protect against fears that the FSF may sell them out in the future. At least then users would be safe unless both the FSF *and* the author wanted to sell out. Seems much less likely.
Also, does the redistribution clause of the GPL apply when it's distributed embedded or just as a software package. If I build a USB widget and distribute the widget running the Linux kernel with scheduler changes to accomodate my widget's real-time foobazzle, does it need to be GPL? Even if it is only allowing my widget to simply run? I don't have a problem with that (I actually kind of like it), but a lot of the less committed to free software would.
I think Mauve has the most RAM. --PHB (Dilbert Comic)
Now honestly, do you really expect their technical support to have any idea whether or not they will be releasing the modified code? These are people who explain how to use the box, not the corporate strategys of the company. I'd be surprised if more than 3 of their PVR techs even know what Linux, outside something the DishPVR uses. I supervise people in a Cable modem call center and 2/3rds of the people I work with who fix peoples computers don't even know what Linux is.
According to this Sonicblue's Replay 4500 is also Linux based.
If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed... Oh wait, he does.
Won't work....
You would have to buy one from them first, then you can demand the source from them.
Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
I know several people working on this project. Echostar is going to release all the source code that they are required to. Just because a call-center person who is trained to help people hook the box up to their TV doesn't know about it doesn't mean the code is not going to be released.
This is a new platform for Echostar and it may take a while to get everthing in place. Based on my understanding, they have every intention of following all GPL requirements.
Tip: The Linux kernel is licensed under the GPL.
Tip: You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Don't call their tech support and rag on them, you write them a nice letter on paper and request it, mentioning their 'oversight'.
Good point.
And you wonder why people hate Linux Supporters
You go through all the trouble to develop, design, construct, and market a box that does something damned useful, and then a snot-nosed 14-year old who can't program other than running a vbs worm starts calling your tech support demanding your "GPL" code.
If their product is based on Linux, they did not go to all the trouble to develop, design, and construct the product. If they don't want the benefits and obligations of the GPL, they can use BSD, sell their souls for a closed source alternative, or write their own code.
The thing is the GPL won't get thrown out in court. The reason is that it does not, in any way, restrict your right to do things under copyright law. It's only when I distribute it that I have to deal with the GPL, and under normal cirumstances i wouldn't be allowed to do that at all.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
You go through all the trouble to develop a program to be used as a PVR in a computer; you give it out for free so anybody can use it, and ask for only that they do the same when the make it better. Then somebody comes along, takes your work, modifies it, and sells it, claiming it be their own.
Tip: Not everything is GPL. Those that that aren't should have written from scratch, or from licensed code. According to the story, Echostar used GPL'ed code, and hence, are required to, by the GPL license, to GPL their code.
What if this was proprietary code that they took and used? I believe you'd have a different view then, because it's generally called "IP Theft." Keven Mitnick served years in jail for something similar, and he wasn't even getting any financial benefit.
Well, guess what? If they don't GPL their code, they violated copyright. Plian and simple.
as long as their work doesn't modify the existing GPL code. So they just add some scripting to do what they want using a standard kernel (not an unlikely scenario). They can copyright their code or keep it secret; it's their choice. They need not release any of it as long as it does not incorporate any code that is already under GPL copyright. It would, in effect, simply be an application that runs on the Linux OS (like an accounting application or a database application).
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
I'm sorry your post was moderated down. I agree completely with what you said. The GPL is a commercial-hostile license, and there are a significant number of GPL advocates who also happen to be anti-business advocates. This makes developing commercial products that are based on Linux or any other GPL'd software an absolute minefield.
My company is currently selecting the next platform for our software. (You've never heard of it, so don't bother trying to guess.) Some of my staff (I'm the CTO) are lobbying for a Linux port, mostly for business reasons but also to support Linux as an alternative to Windows on the Intel architectures.
I have vetoed that proposal summarily. My reason is mostly based on technology-- Linux doesn't have very good support for some advanced hardware that we depend on-- but the last nail in the coffin was politics. I don't want to even dip a toe in the GPL pool as long as there are vocal and influential people out there trying to make life hard for for-profit businesses.
We're porting from IRIX to Solaris. Linux is just more trouble than it's worth.