Telemarketers and Cell Phones?

jjshoe asks: "I have received one bumbling voice mail from a woman who seemed very confused as to why I wasn't there, like her auto dialer transfered her call to my cellphone in time for my voice mail, one missed call, and one in which I actually talked to the woman. My concern is that this all costs me minutes, which of course equals money. What laws are out there for me? What bills are out there waiting to head their way towards becoming laws? What can I do to be compensated for time? After I screamed at the tele-marketer lady she said she would mark me as a wrong number, but I still don't believe this is enough." Considering most tele-marketers use auto-dialers, would it be so hard to grab the definitive list of area-code/extensions that are exclusively used for cellular phones and just apply that to their dial-out lists?

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's website was the only site I could find that had any information on cellphones and solicitation.

Note the first question from 'JOHN PUHATCH':

Q: Regarding the sole use of wireless phones as an alternative to a land line connection, as I have done for nearly two years: You stated that tele-marketers do not call wireless phones. If only that were the case. Tele-marketing agencies have regularly contacted me on my cell phone concerning everything from vacation homes to long-distance service. My assumption is that these agencies secure my cell phone number by buying information from the plethora of forms and applications that require home telephone numbers but leave no place for a cell phone.

And the answer basically amounts to, although we do have some protections, we can still be screwed:

'A: [...]In short, John, you lost your chance at a telemarketing-free life when you filled out those forms with your phone number. May others learn from your mistake.'

Does anyone have any advice on things I can do to get these tele-marketers to stop calling on my cellphone?"

Most land-based phone companies allow anonymous-call blocks these days. Are there cellular phone companies doing anything similar?

Comments

telemarketers are good

[squarefish]

just ask this guy.

Don't answer

[sllort]

My cell phone is my only phone. When you have "home phone" as a required field on most order forms, you have to give out something. Then, later, someone calls to sell you a hotel vacation, or Viagra. You can tell them it's your cell phone, and ask them where you can bill them for your minutes, but they just hang up on you.

These days, I just don't answer blocked ID's, and my voicemail says so. You need a valid caller ID to call me. Yes, it's pathetic and sub-optimal, but it's the system our lawmakers have left us with. Pay to be harassed, or become unavailable.

Of course, I always buy the Viagra, so it's not that bad a deal.

Re:Don't answer

[gid]

These days, I just don't answer blocked ID's, and my voicemail says so.

I'd love to do that, but unfortunately my sister's cell phone shows up as a "blocked id" she's in PIttsburgh w/ Nokia and I'm Gaithersburg, Maryland w/Sprint PCS. Kinda annoying, because if it weren't for that, I'd wouldn't answer blocked id's.

My current solution is once that I sniff that's it's a sales call, which usually takes me all of 2 seconds after noticing that no one greets with "hello" right away, because most sales calls are made by a machine that does dialing, once it determines that it's a person on the line, it passes the call to a human who does the talking, which can take a bit. Anyway I simply respond with "This is a cell phone, please don't call this number again".

For the above reason of how sales calls are placed I know some phone companies can give you a spam trap. Which basically means everytime someone calls you, the phone company takes the calls, asks the caller to press 1 to talk to a person, and then passes the call on to you. I had a friend who lives in Key West that had this feature, I wish more phone companies did, or maybe they do, and I just don't know.

Re:Don't answer

[slamb]

They lied. What they said contradicts the Telephone Consumer Protection Act.

First, to answer the poster of this story. The TCPA forbids calling at the callee's expense. From this page:

In addition to prohibiting charges to protect residential privacy, the TCPA and our rules prohibit calls that impose costs on the called party (e.g., calls to paging and cellular numbers, facsimile advertisements).

After telling them I wished to be put on their no call list, they told me it would be three months before that would take effect. I told them this was unacceptable.

As well you should. I do not believe the TCPA allows them any time whatsoever. If they hang up and immediately call back, that's their one allowed error for the next twelve months. After that, you can charge them $500 per call.

I also learned that these no call lists are only valid for one year at which time they can opt me right back in

That's not what the TCPA says. This page at the Direct Marketing Assocation says that telemarketers must:

# Maintain a "do not call list" and honor any request to not be called again. When such a request is received, the requester may not be called again on behalf of the business for whom the solicitation is made. One error is allowed in a twelve month period. Subsequently, the soliciting companies are subject to penalties. A person's name must be kept on the "do not call list" indefinitely.

I think the people who call just always try to weasel out of the terms and get you to agree. I try to be verify specific:

• I find out what company is calling me ("We're calling on behalf of Sprint..." "Yes, but what company do you work for?") and say they may not call me again. I keep track of that.
• I say "put me on your do-not-call list" rather than "take me off your list".
• If they say "it will take 30 days", I say "it had better not".

Actually, browsing that Junkbusters site, they have a script for you to keep by the telephone. Looks handy.

Junkbusters Telemarketing Tips

[akiy]

Some good information on decreasing the number of junk phone calls you get located here.

A magical phrase is, "Place me on your do not call list."

Do not call list

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, you can tell them to put you on a do not call list per telemarketer. Then, if that telemarketer calls you again, you can sue them in small claims court for your minutes and damages. Some skip tracing should help you find the offending company so that you can recover the money. It is even better if it is a local outfit calling you.

Cash in!

[Chmarr]

According to the TCPA (Telephone Consumer Protection Act), it is illegal for a business to dial mobile phone numbers for unsolicited telemarketing. Unless there are some weird circumstances on how they got hold of your phone number, you've just earned yourself $500-$1500. Congratulations! You now just need to figure out how to claim it :)

A good resource for this kind of thing is Junkbusters

Best telemarketing call

[Anonymous Coward]

Me: Hello, Hello?
Telemarketer:Hello sir, I'm calling from [some bank name]. I'm offering credit cards at special low rate.
Me:Yeah, what cards are you offering?
Telemarketer:We offer AmEx, Visa, Mastercard, and Diners Club.
Me: Cool, put me down for all 4!
Telemarketer: Pause... Umm, we only give you the one with the best rate.
Me:Oh, Ok, put me down for all 4.
Telemarketer:Pause. Ok, sir, I just need you to answer a few questions... Is your household income over $1000.00 per month?
Me: Nope.
Telemarketer:Ok, um household is EVERYONE in the home. Is it less that $1000.00?
Me: Yep, we make around $750.00 per month.
Telemarketer: Is this Mr. Mike Douglas?
Me: Nope.
Telemarketer: Who is this?
Me: Who is this?
Telemarketer: My name is Mike Pringle.
Me: What are you selling?
Telemarketer: I'm offering credit cards. Who is this?
Me: This is Mike Pringles. I'm Offering you a low low rate credit card, would you be intrested?
Telemarketer hangs up.

Solid Gold!

thats nothing...

[r00tarded]

wait till they start sending you SMS messages. its easy as hell to crapflood your phone with automated text messages.

Re:Could Be Worse

[zulux]

A friend of mine had a phone number that was a two digit tranposition of a local Pizza Hut. When one of their stupider customers would call, he'd politly take their order, but would tell them that they coulden't deliver to their area as IT WAS FULL OF MAN EATING PIZZA MONSTERS. He'd then hang up.

It's a solved problem - USA just needs to catch up

[pommiekiwifruit]

In the UK:

• All cellphone numbers start with 07. Other ranges of numbers are reserved for various things. There was much disruption while the phone number for London changed from 01 to 071/081 to 0171/0181 to 020(7/8) though - a boon for all stationary reprinting companies :-)
• You can opt out of all junk phone calls by joining the Telephone Preference System. This applies to landlines as well as mobiles. If they ring you when you are on the TPS, you get medium large amounts of cash from them.
• You don't pay for receiving calls, unless you are out of the country and are on a roving tariff (in which case you pay the bill for calling from your home country to the country you are currently in). It seems absolutely crazy to charge to receive calls, as this would cause the penetration of mobiles to drop dramatically as it would exclude poor people (e.g. many teenagers). Generally people I know receive lots of calls, and then spend up to their limit of outgoing calls and wait until they get more money.

Introducing those changes should help you.

It IS illegal under the TCPA (for most plans)

[pthisis]

Telemarketing to a number where the recipient has to pay by the minute is illegal under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act. See the U.S. Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Part I, Sec 227.

I got rid of my land line 3 years ago in favor of a cell phone and haven't had a single telemarketing call since then. I'm pretty surprised that you have; they're liable for a $500 fine for each such call placed.

Sumner

The UK is different

[Albanach]

There are a number of reasons that we in the UK are protected from this.

• We don't pay for incoming calls. The result is the calling party pays the bill - and calling cell phones during the day can be expensive - circa 30p (40c) /min.
• We have a regulated scheme by which you can opt out of all telemarketing calls - the telephone preference service Click to sign up now. Companies calling numbers listed on the TPS face a 2000 GBP fine.

So you have two things to pursue. Campaign for the calling party to pay the cost of their call, and campaign for the government to legislate to make one country wide telemarketing opt-out list with fines for companies that ignore your request. Sadly I don't see either happening in the US any time soon.

"Put me on your do not call list."

[Futurepower(R)]

In the U.S., ask what company is calling. Then say "Put me on your do not call list." Say nothing more. That is very effective, since they can be sued in small claims court if they call back. Use exactly that language and nothing else, the sentence has legal meaning. This works perfectly for me.

Re:"Put me on your do not call list."

[Tackhead]

> In the U.S., ask what company is calling. Then say "Put me on your do not call list." Say nothing more. That is very effective, since they can be sued in small claims court if they call back. Use exactly that language and nothing else, the sentence has legal meaning. This works perfectly for me.

Although this has cut down on some of my phone spam volume, folks should be aware that:

1) It only has meaning for the telemarketing company that called you. When XYZ Phonespammers of Texas puts you on their DNC list, they can rename themselves to ABC Phonespammers of Texas.

2) It only has meaning for a year, then they can call you again.

Those of you lucky enough to have statewide do-not-call lists are in a somewhat better position, because all your state's telespammers are required to use it. Problem is...

3) ...your entry on the Colorado no-call list doesn't protect you from XYZ Telemarketing of Colorado opening up a call center and operating as XYZ Telemarketing of Nevada.

The only solution is a nationwide do-not-call list.

I know this solution will work because...

the DMA is scared shitless of it.

You don't have a lot of credibility, to be perfectly honest," Harrington, the FTC's director marketing practices, told the audience of approximately 50 telemarketers.

If telemarketers had adhered to the present rules, which give each company one shot at each consumer and require them to honor all DNC requests, a national DNC list would not be under discussion, Harrington said.

Am I just being paranoid? No - my experiences with telemarketers evading the current TCPA regs mirror those of Eileen Harrington - FTC's point-person on the do-not-call issue.

In her own personal experience, Harrington said, she was aware that telemarketers often try to circumvent the rules by hanging up when consumers ask to be placed on their DNC lists, or by denying that their calls are for sales purposes, then trying to make a sale. Technology, such as predictive dialers, is being abused, Harrington said.

Finally, in what were probably the first honest words to come out of a telemarketer's mouth in all of recorded history, we have this gem:

<WHINE> Eventually, everybody is going on the list," said Art Conway, president of DialAmerica Marketing. "If you create this national do-not-call list, the way you have it proposed, we're going out of business." </WHINE>

Hey, Art. Fuck off, and stay fucked off!

Re:"Put me on your do not call list."

[guttentag]

I typically do this, but one day I got a call from someone trying to sell me AT&T long distance. As usual, I said, "put me on your do not call list."

"All right," she said, "I just need your name."

"You don't need my name. You just need to put the phone number you just called on your do not call list, as required by law."

"I can't put you on the do not call list unless you give me your name, address, phone number, email address and answer a few questions about why you don't want to save money with us."

So I told her my name was John, I live at 123 Main Street, and my email address is abuse@yahoo.com. At that point she hung up on me. Someone else called from AT&T the next day, looking to sell long distance. I told him about the ordeal I went through the day before, and he promptly hung up.

Ever since then I just put them on hold whenever they call. "Yeah, I'm really thinking about switching my long distance, because I make so many calls and my bill is so huge. Can you hold on for a minute?" Five minutes later: "Hi, you still there? So what was it you said you were offering? Uh huh. Oh, hold on a sec, it's my call waiting." And then I leave them on hold for about an hour before hanging up.

My roommate prefers to waste his time driving them crazy. He'll wait for his turn to speak, pick some abstract word, like "Cheese" and stick with it.

"So how are you doing today, sir?"

"Cheese."

"I'm sorry, I didn't catch that."

"Cheese."

"Um... OK. I'm calling from AT&T and we thought you might like to take advantage of the opportunity to save some money on your long distance bill."

"Cheese."

Re:Has anyone tried TeleZapper?

[stoolpigeon]

Let me start w/a disclaimer. I am not a telemarketer. I do run a predictive dialer but we are using it to call people who owe us money. If they pay their bills I do not bother them. If you don't do business w/my company, or keep your account current you will never hear from me.

The TeleZapper is a neat idea- I wish I would have thought of it. I would think it is helpful in limiting telemarketers but probably not a 100% solution. There are a couple reasons.

The first is that when the TeleZapper sends its little chunk of a SIT tone to the dialer it means that that dialer will mark your number as out of service. That dialer will most likely not call you again during that day. (This may not be true though depending on how the dialer is set up.) Whether or not you get updated in that company database depends on whether or not that company even has a database. And when do they update the dialer's results.
I do jobs for clients where there is never any storage of bad results from my dialer. We handle way too much volume to bother with it.

If they do keep a database to cull out bad results then this company may stop calling you altogether. But if you are on other lists w/other companies then they may keep calling. You should get the picture.

The second main reason it cannot stop all telemarketers is that it does not work on all dialers. (specifically a Mosaix dialer like the one that I run) The telezapper does not send out the whole SIT tone, just the first part. For some dialers this is enough. (Davox is one I've been told) But our dialer will just hang in there since the whole tone doesn't come across the line. (and remember it doesn't send the tone until you or your answering machine pick up the line.-- your phone still rings- you pick it up and hear the tone and if it is effective noone is there. It's just you going hello? hello?)

It's cheap and I've considered buying one. I think any reduction in telemarketing calls is pretty good. So I'm not trying to slam the product but the ads are somewhat optimistic in what the product can do (can't blame 'em there)

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