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Telemarketers and Cell Phones?
jjshoe asks: "I have received one bumbling voice mail from a woman who seemed very confused as to why I wasn't there, like her auto dialer transfered her call to my cellphone in time for my voice mail, one missed call, and one in which I actually talked to the woman. My concern is that this all costs me minutes, which of course equals money. What laws are out there for me? What bills are out there waiting to head their way towards becoming laws? What can I do to be compensated for time? After I screamed at the tele-marketer lady she said she would mark me as a wrong number, but I still don't believe this is enough." Considering most tele-marketers use auto-dialers, would it be so hard to grab the definitive list of area-code/extensions that are exclusively used for cellular phones and just apply that to their dial-out lists?
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's website was the only site I could find that had any information on cellphones and solicitation.
Note the first question from 'JOHN PUHATCH':
Q: Regarding the sole use of wireless phones as an alternative to a land line connection, as I have done for nearly two years: You stated that tele-marketers do not call wireless phones. If only that were the case. Tele-marketing agencies have regularly contacted me on my cell phone concerning everything from vacation homes to long-distance service. My assumption is that these agencies secure my cell phone number by buying information from the plethora of forms and applications that require home telephone numbers but leave no place for a cell phone.And the answer basically amounts to, although we do have some protections, we can still be screwed:
'A: [...]In short, John, you lost your chance at a telemarketing-free life when you filled out those forms with your phone number. May others learn from your mistake.'Does anyone have any advice on things I can do to get these tele-marketers to stop calling on my cellphone?"
Most land-based phone companies allow anonymous-call blocks these days. Are there cellular phone companies doing anything similar?
just ask this guy.
Creationists are a lot like zombies. Slow, but powerful and numerous. And they all want to eat our brains.
My cell phone is my only phone. When you have "home phone" as a required field on most order forms, you have to give out something. Then, later, someone calls to sell you a hotel vacation, or Viagra. You can tell them it's your cell phone, and ask them where you can bill them for your minutes, but they just hang up on you.
These days, I just don't answer blocked ID's, and my voicemail says so. You need a valid caller ID to call me. Yes, it's pathetic and sub-optimal, but it's the system our lawmakers have left us with. Pay to be harassed, or become unavailable.
Of course, I always buy the Viagra, so it's not that bad a deal.
Last I checked telemarketers weren't allowed to use cellphone ranges for phone spam (unless you somehow opt in, which I'd suppose theres a great chance of).
If I got a call on my cell with some "company" offering services to me, you'd bet that I'd be demanding to speak to management and taking down their name and number.
I think with some phone providers you can actually report those calls to them too and get a possible refund, or get the business blocked.
I tell them I'm on a cellphone and it's illegal for them to call cellphones in accordance with the 1997 Telecom Act, since we end up paying for the minutes. Then I tell them I'm a telecommunications consultant for Qwest/XO/Whoever. I then tell them to take me off the list, ask who they are, and them tell them that I am reporting them to my local Public Utilities Commission.
That should work. (No idea if it REALLY works or if its even correct, but if they're calling my spamming my cellphone, screw 'em.)
A magical phrase is, "Place me on your do not call list."
--
http://www.aikiweb.com - AikiWeb Aikido Information
Really? That sucks in a bad way.
Here (Wisconsin, Fox Valley area) we have a definitive list of prefixes that are only available for cellphones. I'd always assumed that it was the same way for everyone (just so it could be policed in some way).
Even if you mask out mobile numbers for the auto diallers, several telecompanies are providing a combined service that will redirect you home phone to you mobile. In that case you will end up receiving the message on you mobile phone anyway.
In regards to time, I'll usually just say goodbye...
But time is an issue. Just think about spam, commercials, etc... but I believe it would only cloud up things if we should start making new laws. What about using existing laws about harassment.
-:) Oh no - not again.
www.rednebula.com
Being someone that installs and services auto-dialers I can say for a fact that if you get a marketing call on a cell phone it is a mistake. It is illegal for them to call your cell phone because of the very fact that it directly costs you money. I have not had a marketer call me in 2 years because I have only a cell phone. The people who make number lists for auto dialers cross-reference their list with a list of cell phone number blocks. Most of the time the mistakes are made by small in-house call centers.
Life is Short and Hard like a body building Elf
IIRC, I read somewhere that the reason that telemarketers don't call cell phones is because most plans are "per-minute", meaning that time you spend on the phone is time that's costing you, unlike the flat-fee for unlimited phone usage on your house phone.
Because of this, telemarketers could be held monetarily liable for the minutes (which equal $$$ in mobile phone plans) that you "lost" talking to them.
Watch the Teaser Trailer for "The Lightning Thief" Her
Actually, you can tell them to put you on a do not call list per telemarketer. Then, if that telemarketer calls you again, you can sue them in small claims court for your minutes and damages. Some skip tracing should help you find the offending company so that you can recover the money. It is even better if it is a local outfit calling you.
If all you have is your cellphone and no home phone # like me, get a dedicated Voicemail number, they're like $5 a month and you can make it seem like its your home number with an answering machine. Give this number out as your home number on everything, then just check it every so often. Don't ever give out your cell number. It's cheaper than having a home phone line and you can give it to everyone, even credit card companies, which are the worst telemarketing offenders.
-BlingBlings Flossin it
A guy I work with gets calls a few times a week (usually at odd hours, so he gets voicemail.) The calls usually are along the lines of "Hey this is -firstname- from -companyname-, the state says it is ok to dig. Thanks, seeya." When he does answer, the people don't seem to want to talk and tell him who they were expecting to get.
We to this day don't know who the callers are trying to get, but there sure are a lot of callers, and whoever is supposed to get the calls sure digs a lot of big holes.
Someone probably has a document in their customers hands with the wrong cellphone number on it. Makes for a good laugh every now and then.
-Pete
Soccer Goal Plans
According to the TCPA (Telephone Consumer Protection Act), it is illegal for a business to dial mobile phone numbers for unsolicited telemarketing. Unless there are some weird circumstances on how they got hold of your phone number, you've just earned yourself $500-$1500. Congratulations! You now just need to figure out how to claim it :)
A good resource for this kind of thing is Junkbusters
Actually, the real question is: why do you have to pay when someone calls you? The answer is simple: the phone system is broken. Fix it, and solve all the problems at once without any kind of bill or lawsuit. Easier said than done, but Europe, Asia, Africa and South America managed it (not sure about Australia). Granted, they leapfrogged the US by going to GSM directly. That's not a reason to stay behind.
Nobox: Only simple products.
This phenomenon has been routinely happening to me now for the past week or so. I let it roll over into voicemail today and it is some automated recording, although it takes so long to get into the recording area that all I get are the last 3 digits of the phone number and to call them between some hours central standard time.
Totally bizzare!
Thanks,
--
Matt
Me: Hello, Hello?
Telemarketer:Hello sir, I'm calling from [some bank name]. I'm offering credit cards at special low rate.
Me:Yeah, what cards are you offering?
Telemarketer:We offer AmEx, Visa, Mastercard, and Diners Club.
Me: Cool, put me down for all 4!
Telemarketer: Pause... Umm, we only give you the one with the best rate.
Me:Oh, Ok, put me down for all 4.
Telemarketer:Pause. Ok, sir, I just need you to answer a few questions... Is your household income over $1000.00 per month?
Me: Nope.
Telemarketer:Ok, um household is EVERYONE in the home. Is it less that $1000.00?
Me: Yep, we make around $750.00 per month.
Telemarketer: Is this Mr. Mike Douglas?
Me: Nope.
Telemarketer: Who is this?
Me: Who is this?
Telemarketer: My name is Mike Pringle.
Me: What are you selling?
Telemarketer: I'm offering credit cards. Who is this?
Me: This is Mike Pringles. I'm Offering you a low low rate credit card, would you be intrested?
Telemarketer hangs up.
Solid Gold!
Not _all_ European ideas are bad ones. :)
-_Quinn
Reality Maintenance Group, Silver City Construction Co., Ltd.
wait till they start sending you SMS messages. its easy as hell to crapflood your phone with automated text messages.
four-oh-four
The Missouri no call list is fantastic. I've extolled its virtues to many of my friends and neighbors. Since both of my land lines (a personal line and a fax line that SWBT doesn't know is a business line...heheh...) are on the attorney general's list, I've recieved very few telemarketing calls. And the ones I've received were probably from companies that are exempt - credit card companies, for example.
Plus, Missouri prosecutes violators. Gotta love that.
However, as far as I know, the Missouri law does not cover cell phones. In fact, we tried to put our cell on the list, the no-call folks called back and said that since it was a cell, it couldn't be on the list. But - as other posters have pointed out - I believe that in my area cell phones are automatically off of call lists anyway. And in the case of my specific area, the *area* *code* may be the same as land lines, but the *exchange* (that second set of 3 numbers) is different for cells. Thus marking cell numbers and putting them out of bounds for telemarketers.
We've not recieved one solitary telemarketing call on our cell.
But as always, milage varies.
Consigned to flames of woe.
I live in Los Angeles, and cell phones have the same area codes as residential phones. If they're just dialing numbers, what tells them a particular number is a cell phone? Is there a list of prefixes that are reserved for cell phones?
That's not so easy as a lot of people forward their home phone to their cell phones. I do always take in telling the telemarketer who thought they were calling home that they have called me on my cell phone and that it's costing me money to talk to them. Some guy actually told me to send him a bill.
Introducing those changes should help you.
Area codes may be, but exchanges are NOT. Exchanges are assigned to a provider for one purpose. Cellular/PCS, pager, and land line should ALL be separate.
I love getting marketing calls on my cellphone. Possibly because we don't pay for incoming calls in the UK and possibly because I find it an intellectual challenge to keep them on the phone for as long as possible (in the knowledge that it's probably costing them 15p/minute to talk to me).
;-)
Yes, I have a lot of time on my hands.
Why on earth do Americans pay to receive phone calls?
Telemarketing to a number where the recipient has to pay by the minute is illegal under the Telephone Consumer Protection Act. See the U.S. Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Part I, Sec 227.
I got rid of my land line 3 years ago in favor of a cell phone and haven't had a single telemarketing call since then. I'm pretty surprised that you have; they're liable for a $500 fine for each such call placed.
Sumner
rage, rage against the dying of the light
I worked for a call center for a short while and on occasion we would need to make outgoing calls if requested by customers. Any outgoing calls to cell phone numbers were automatically disabled and could not be made even by the executive manager of the call center. I say this because it demonstrates that it is possible to avoid calling just cellular phones.
The outgoing call system did have a few false positives (marking a number as cellular when it was not) but I never did see a false negative.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
- We don't pay for incoming calls. The result is the calling party pays the bill - and calling cell phones during the day can be expensive - circa 30p (40c)
/min. - We have a regulated scheme by which you can opt out of all telemarketing calls - the telephone preference service Click to sign up now. Companies calling numbers listed on the TPS face a 2000 GBP fine.
So you have two things to pursue. Campaign for the calling party to pay the cost of their call, and campaign for the government to legislate to make one country wide telemarketing opt-out list with fines for companies that ignore your request. Sadly I don't see either happening in the US any time soon.http://antitelemarketer.com/
:)
I'm not connected with this site in any way, but I've used info from there to rid myself of 90% of telemarketing calls. And I've had some fun with telemorons in the process.
everything in moderation
NY has so many phone customers, they had to start using 917 for landlines, which used to be only used for cell phones. Since then, I've gotten a few spam calls.
-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
I noticed Radio Shack has been advertising this device TeleZapper for $49 which sends a "disconnected" tone up the line everytime you answer a phone call so telemarketers with autodialers automatically tag your phone number as disconnected. Anyone have one of these things? I guess it'd be difficult to tell how well it works if number of spam calls received is still > 0.
In the U.S., ask what company is calling. Then say "Put me on your do not call list." Say nothing more. That is very effective, since they can be sued in small claims court if they call back. Use exactly that language and nothing else, the sentence has legal meaning. This works perfectly for me.
I thought that telemarketers were required to use directories of numbers to do their business, that they couldn't just dial sequential numbers.
Otherwise, why the heck do I pay extra each month for an unlisted number?
When a telemarketer calls just say "Hold on a sec I'm drivin..." then scream and hang up the phone. My cell happens to have a little flap I slam shut to end the call with that added sound effect.
As a follow-up to my own post, here's the website of the Colorado No-Call list:
http://www.coloradonocall.com/index.cfm
It's free and it was completely effectively in stopping unsolicited phone calls (except, as noted, political calls and charities).
I recently switched to cell phone only, giving up my dependence on a land line. When people ask for my phone number I go through the following routine (which assumes I don't want to give them my data):
Question to whoever: Why do I have to give you my number?
Salesperson Bob's Answer: Oh, uh, we just need it to, uh...
I tell Bob: No.
I keep my phone and they don't get any info on me. I am probally there to get a item, not give them anything.
Question to whoever: Why do I have to give you my number?
Salesperson Bob's Answer: We have to have it for corporate.
I tell Bob: No
Bob Replies: I need the phone number or I can't complete your order.
I tell Bob: Let me speak to a manager.
I again keep my phone number giving them nothing. If I have to give a number or I can not purchase the item, then I go somewhere else. Yet again, I am there for an item not to pander to their database whims.
If you give them your phone, then you might as well give them your address. After all, they are probally going to ask for that too. So now you have spam on two fronts (phone and smail).
Sometimes they ask for my email. So...
Salesperson Bob: I need your email address.
Answer: Sure thing. It is G... double E... T... B... double E... N... T... @hotmail.com
Somehow telling them double E just bypasses some section of the brain and they fail to realise I am telling them to get bent!
The wages of sin are unreported and back taxes are hell to pay.
Yeah, I could never understand why American cell phones worked like that. In the UK, the prefix 07 is reserved for mobile phones, pagers, and personal number services. Normal area codes all start with 01 or 02. It works quite well.
Actually, I have found that rudeness and shortcircuting of the preprogrammed speach does help with telemarketing, when coupled with an unlisted number. These firms keep notes about the person called, which profiles work best, which don't work so well.
For example, I have an 11 character polish last name. Very hard for your average telemarketer to prounounce. So one time, somebody called and while they were trying to pronounce my name (hello mr........) I just short circuted their speech before they could get a word in, etc. A few days later, they didn't bother using my last name, just my first name.
I also tend to be obscene with them, if I'm in an evil mood.
And I have noticed that the telemarketing calls have gone way way way down.
Gentoo Sucks
Imagine the scene. A young woman living in her apartment by herself. The phone rings. She picks it up and it goes silent.
Again, several times a night. The phone rings. She picks it up. No-one on the other end.
How the HELL is this method of 'advertising' different from the actions of a depraved stalker?
"Why did they cancel my favorite Sci-Fi show? I downloaded ALL the episodes!"
I'm still waiting for the inevitable news story that some guy is driving in their car, answers their cell phone which turns out to be a telemarketer solicitation and ends up crashing into a supermodel's car because he wasn't paying attention to the road.
GMD
watch this
Do what I do. Most places with auto-dailers have more outgoing calls than people, so it takes them 5 seconds or so to get to the call. When you answer and get no response in 3-4 seconds, just hang up. Still costs a little, but I've found it works. I also don't answer calls sometimes from private numbers as well as anything that comes up 800 or 888 on call display.
A guy I work with gets calls a few times a week (usually at odd hours, so he gets voicemail.) The calls usually are along the lines of "Hey this is -firstname- from -companyname-, the state says it is ok to dig. Thanks, seeya." When he does answer, the people don't seem to want to talk and tell him who they were expecting to get.
Hmmm. Very fishy. Maybe it's mafia hitmen who are following the advice of those public safety tips and making sure to avoid buried powerlines before they go digging any graves!
GMD
watch this
It would be fun when a telemarketer calls my house to tell them I recently said to block my number..... Then I'll sue!
Hacker Media
only in the USA is the cellphone system so fucked up that you get charged for incoming calls. it's hardly the telemarketeers fault if they decide to exploit this ludicrous situation and annoy you for FREE. you fucking idiots DESERVE it. sort out your cellphone networks!
That was classic intercourse!
I was thinking about setting up a 1-900 number for forms that require a phone number. I'd charge them like $10/min or something similar, and that way I'd be more than happy to have the tele-marketer explain everything to me, in minute detail, twice.
$0.02 (CDN)
Like they say, we've got the best politicians money can buy here
I can't report on how well it works as I've been on the list for 3 days now. See http://host.ntg.com/donotcall/ for details. Here's a sample from the site:
...Time is the best teacher, unfortunately it kills all of its students.
Over on this side of the big pond, the cost of calling mobile telephones is still orders of magnitude higher than making national or local calls, and in some instances comparable (or even more expensive, if you use some of the specialist long-distance carriers) to making international calls. Example: Calls to mobiles are charged at anywhere from 18.90 to 26.05 pence per minute including tax during the daytime. Compare this to international rate calls to the USA at 14.00 and Australia at 22.00 pence per minute. (Source: BT price list). The cost alone is usually sufficient to put people of making calls to mobiles. SMS (text messaging) spam is become more popular though.
The UK Direct Marketing Association, which is the self regulatory body for direct marketeers in the UK run a scheme called the Telephone Preference Service or 'TPS'. From personal experience, I have found this scheme to be particularly effective against junk callers.
The same bunch also run a postal-mail and fax opt-out service, which is apparently also fairly successful, and an Email service, which I'm somewhat sceptical about (not giving my addressesout anyway, I shouldn't be on their lists). (and most of my spam comes from the USA anyhow) Under the Telecommunications (Data Protection and Privacy Regulations) 1999 it is an offence for any company engaged in direct marketing to call numbers listed on the TPS. Those who do can be 'shopped' straight away on the TPS site. One difference I noticed with the USA version of the TPS is that in the USA, you can still be called by local traders, charities and religious groups, AND your number only registers for five years. In the UK, local traders, charities and religious groups are included in the act.
Basically, if you get an unlisted or anonymous phone call, the caller has to say their name *before* the call goes through. It gets electronically recorded & then repeated back to whoever answers the phone. The answerer then has the option to accept the call or hang up. Why not something similar for cell phones? Mine already has Caller ID, this wouldn't be a stretch (and I would gladly pay extra for this feature).
LOL and there is a recoverable cost which CAN IN FACT be successfully sued for I KNOW, I DID IT in Contra Costa County(Calif) Small claims court. I was called twice by the same telemerketer with a 2 month period. I took them to small claims court to recover the loss, they never showed, I got a day off work (payed) the cost of a months' cell bill, and written assurance that my name and phone number had been removed. You may not like it but thats the way it is :)
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
In the netherlands it's even better, there's a mobile operator that actually pays you 0,03 euro per minute when someone calls you.
I didn't even imagine received calls were charged in US, a alleged liberal country.
It's got nothing to do with being liberal!
In the US cell phones have local numbers - so if my friend down the road calls me on my cell phone he doesn't get charged but I do. In the UK (and France I'll bet) - my friend would get charged a premium fee to call my cell phone from his landline.
I personally like the US system. One reason is that mother (in the UK) can call me on cell phone and it doesn't cost her any more than calling a land line. Hence I can get rid of my land line all together.
The deals on cell phones here are much better in terms of the number of minutes you get included in a cell phone. I don't know anyone who actually pays a per minute charge for their calls - everyone just gets the minute plan that suits them and pretty much always finish the month under their limit. It works out much cheaper that way.
I'd be willing to bet that the average UK cell phone user has a higher bill than the average US cell phone user.
Driving from Texas to California via Kansas and Denver, got stuck in a surprise snowstorm. After 3 hours of first gear (in an MR2 with summer tires!) and no place to pull off and put on my chains, finally did a 360, a 180, and another 180, and decided my luck had run out, so I dumped it off the side in a snowbank. No damage, not hurt, but decided it was time to get my money's worth from AAA. While waiting for them to call back, a telemarketer called! "Hello Mr Smith, how are you doing today?" I said I was stuck in a snowback. "Oh, you live in the mountains? We have a special offer today on credit card insurance..." and I hung up. Clueless.
Infuriate left and right
You're right. Despite the seeming ubiquity of cellphones in the US, they've achieved nowhere near the penetration they have in the UK. This is probably one of the reasons why.
And the brethren went away edified.
Don't you have that "crazy" per-minute charge for local calls on your land lines? We don't here.
Yes we do, but I don't ever use land lines. can't remember the last time I did, almost everyone has got a cellphone. the local university here even hands out cellphones to all students, no monthly charge and 100 minutes free calls per month.
I myself pay 9 euro per month, including 40 minutes free calls, and I never ever exceeded those 40 minutes. for me , a cellphone is cheaper then a land line (which cost more per month, excluding calls).
so yes, land lines are charged per minute (per second actually) , do I care ? no!
A buddy of mine comes up with some good anti-telemarketer lines. A couple of weeks ago he was called up by someone hocking the local paper.
Telemarketer: Hello, would you like to recieve the [local paper]?
Guy: I... can't read.
[pause]
Telemarketer: At all?
I have two phones plugged into my Pipeline 75, and get probably one a day or so. PacBell (California) provides 12000 minutes (200 hours) per month with the basic service; after that it's 3 cents the first minute and 1 cent per minute afterwards. Any idea if this counts towards that $500? That would be a lot of fun!
Infuriate left and right
Colored what? Pink? Purple? Or is it one of those color-by-number things? Is it like this one act I saw in Chicago, at Charybdis, where a German guy smeared tempera paints all over the naked bodies of volunteers and then took photos? Man, that was something to see; the pictures were fantastic and everyone had a good time. Too bad that place got shut down by the Alderman.
Let me know, because I'm dying of curiosity.
Finding God in a Dog
And what happens when you run out of 07 numbers? Don't tell me "it'll never happen".
They get longer. UK numbers have grown a couple of digits in the last few years, when they run out of numberspace I'm sure they'll do the same thing again.
Same principle applies to things charged at different rates to normal - special rates are put on 08 (like 0800 - free, 0845 - local rate whereever you're calling from and 0870 - national rate). Premium rate is all dumped on 09 - the £1 a minute "advice" lines and the like.
A lot of upheaval, but it makes sense. It was getting silly 5 or 6 years ago with different blocks of numbers being allocated for mobiles and premium rate services seemingly at random and without any way of knowing the cost beforehand if it wasn't stated.
Don't you have that "crazy" per-minute charge for local calls on your land lines? We don't here. Anyway, there's so many minutes included with my calling plan that I've never paid an extra charge.
Not for a while now. The most basic package has a low cost of line rental with all calls paid for by the minute, but there are lots of other options. Pay about £1.50/month more and you get 4 hours of calls included. Pay about £5/month more and you don't pay for local calls. Pay £8.50 a month more and you don't pay for local or national. To avoid dialup ISP charges, you can pay another £5 or so per month.
All pretty flexible. My ISDN package comes with £14 worth of calls a month - I rarely go over that. BT suck on their pricing and availability of broadband, but we're not quite stuck in the dark ages :)
True Story:
:)
In 1995, I was fresh out of college with a relatively useless liberal arts degree.
A friend of mine had a little web company, and he was giving me piecemeal work - html, content sorting, stuff like that - after finding out that I was pretty comfortable with computers and learned things quickly.
Still, I was poor. Canned-beans-three-meals-a-day poor.
We (a roomate and I) moved into a new apartment a few months later. Our new phone number apparently belonged to an IT consultant before it came into our possession. We used to get five or six calls a week from headhunters looking to hire him for various jobs.
One day, I started talking to one of the headhunters. Ten minutes later, I had an interview for a $25 an hour job, despite my lackluster qualifications and limited experience. A week later, I was hired.
In the seven years since then, I've learned a lot more, worked a lot of contracting gigs, and eventually started my own consulting company. We're not huge, just a few guys, but we make a decent living and do a vast majority of our work in bath robes.
See, telemarketers aren't always bad.
Kuroth
att is starting to do this. They probably think it's ok because they're only spamming their own customers, but it still pisses me off to no end when I get one. There sales guy I usually work with has had a few complaints but his higher-ups haven't figured out yet what to do with people who insist on not getting any spam. Go figure.
Each minute of airtime costs money, but most plans now offer domestic long distance and roaming for free. This can actually save you money if you make a lot of long distance calls.
Ah, so that's why we're putting new cover sheets on our TPS reports!
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
Although many telemarketers are colored, most of them are just like you and me. Please do not verbally abuse them - you won't hurt the industry, just somebody (not unlike myself) who is trying to make ends meet.
I'm not going to dignify that "colored" remark with a reply...
However, your insinuation that telemarketers are just good, honest folk trying to make a living is a bit bizarre. I worked briefly (very briefly -- I quit after two weeks) at a telemarketing firm selling pay channels (HBO, etc.). We got paid a reasonably hourly wage, given what we were doing. However, the real way to make money is through commissions. Telemarketers make money by selling people on their product. They are salespeople. I'm not claiming that they are filthy rich salespeople. But they are more like used car salesmen than they are like the average slashdot reader.
GMD
watch this
Telemarketers are people who need to take responsibility for their actions. In fact the only reason that telemarketing works is that many people are too timid to hang up.
I am not endorsing verbal abuse, but if I receive an unsolicited phone call then my time is being stolen from me. I don't see why I need to be civil; even my declaration of my intent to hang up is just more of my time.
If someone else feels the need to verbally abuse the telemarketer I am not going to complain. If the telemarketer doesn't like it then they can find a job where they aren't stealing time from hundreds of people a day. If no one was willing to telemarket then this abhorent industry would wither and die.
It wouldn't surprise me.
One of the most eye-opening experiences of my life was when I was working late one night, at a Gov't office, in a major Canadian city. I went to the washroom, and the paper-towel dispenser happened to be open. Printed on the inside of the dispenser was instructions on how to change the roll. In English, and what looked like Spanish or Portugese. Either way, it was whatever language all of the janitorial staff were speaking.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
and I quote
"Telemarketers are people too. Although many telemarketers are colored,..."
fuck you negro, I *am* colored, but I aint no god damned telemarketer.
Last time someone telemarketed me, I went into the Monty Python & The Holy Grail French Taunter bit.
"YOU TINY MINDED WIPER OF OTHER PEOPLES' BOTTOMS! NOW GO AWAY OR I SHALL TAUNT YOU A SECOND TIME."
Silence. Then this tiny little female voice with a wry slant said, "Next you're going to tell me you're already got one, right?" Made my day (and probably hers) and we ended up chatting. Too bad she lived 6 states away. ^_~
if the answer isn't violence, neither is your silence / freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
Yes. They are rude people who think they have a right to interrupt me and violate my privacy because they are too lazy to get an honest job. I am so sick of people saying "they're only trying to earn a living," refering to telemarketers. Elephant poachers are only trying to make a living. That doesn't excuse them! I have taken all the precautions to avoid telemarkets, and, for the most part, I only receive a call once every few months (and that is usually a wrong number). However, I still take it upon myself to give the caller the hardest time I can. My reasoning is this -- if everyone was incredibly mean and rude to telemarketers, few people would be willing to do the work and the cost of labor would be prohibitively high. Don't even get me started about the jackasses that actually buy something from telemarketers. If they would all just stop the problem would disappear.
..forcing every cellular company to make the first minute on incoming calls free. I used to have this on Sprint PCS and it was fantastic, particularly for those few occasions when I would have just enough time to tell a telemarketer where to stick it before I could hang up and still be under 1 minute. This would make the telemarketers happy because they could still call people, and most people would be happy because they could hang up before being charged anything. The only problem is figuring out how this is good for the cellular companies...
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
No, to me this appeared to be yet another loophole they had found in telemarketing laws. When that girl told me it would be three months for the call list to take effect for that company and only last for a year, that's when I knew there was a problem. That does not work for me. A few more months at 25 cents per minute was not to my satisfaction. I had to go through the hassle of changing my phone number.
Heterosexual guys do not need more per month. so.. are you gay, or are you a chick?
Neither - I but I spend more than 40 minutes a month saying the words: "Coming down the pub?".
The competition for cell phone customers is intense, and it shouldn't be difficult to find a plan where you can safely ignore telemarketers.
Check out Chad's News
I'm wondering how much cell plans cost around the world. Are plans in other countries as cheap as they are in the USA? I know I see people complaining about how it's backwards in the USA that we get charged for receiving calls, but I don't really care, because I don't use nearly all of my minutes anyway.
Country: USA
Price: $35 USD
Minutes: 250 anytime, 2750 nights and weekends. Long distance included for calls anywhere in the lower 48 states.
Typically, I use less than 200 minutes per month. Most of my friends have similar plans... the most basic plan you can get (that I have found), is $20 USD per month for 20 minutes. I feel it's worth the extra $15 USD for all the minutes. Of course, the minutes came in handy when my girlfriend and I were apart for 3 months...
He said, "You'll be able to tell your grandchildren that you helped assemble the first NT supercomputer," and I cringed.
I'm sure it seems crazy to Europeans, but the balance in North America is that local calls from your landline (i.e. in the same city) cost exactly $0.00 no matter how long the call is. The system here is completetely built up around it and it won't change for a long time.
In Israel each cellular company has it's own prefix.
Incoming calls are never charged, and the minute cost of a call is determined by prefix - 02,03,04,07,08,09 = land lines, 05,06 = cellular (each provider has a set of area codes), 1 = special calls (emergency + services), 01x = internaltional calls (x = provider).
Domestic calls cost about 3c/min in peak time and 0.5c/min at night.
International calls to the US cost 10c/min.
Cellular calls cost 13.2c/min from a land line.
Make even shorter URLs - 8LN.org
There are laws in the US regarding telemarketing to cellular phones. In short, you can't, because it costs the receiver money. It costs you money to answer your phone and say "Go away".
They were trying to contact you on a landline that does not cost you per-minute. You CHOSE to forward calls made to a service that wouldn't cost you money to one that would. That's your fault, not theirs.
You're right. Despite the seeming ubiquity of cellphones in the US, they've achieved nowhere near the penetration they have in the UK. This is probably one of the reasons why.
Also, there is no need to. Crappy as the local Telco's in the US are they are nowhere near as bad as the state-run monopolies that most of the rest of the world has to put up with. In most countries in Europe you have to pay per minute while you are dialed in, for example.
Mmmm.. Donuts
Don't be too hard on them, according to this CNN story, a mountaineer was saved by a telemarketer who called him while he was stuck on a mountain.
Add a sub-agreement to any forms you fill out indicating that your information will not be shared with a third party. Just write it somewheres in a blank area and get the person you're filling the form out for to sign it. My father went in to buy a vehicle one time, and that's what he did. If in doubt, or if this you find adding this agreement cumbersome, spell your name wrong. When you receive mail or a telemarketer calls, look at your name on the mail or ask the telemarketer to spell your name. If it's incorrect, you know your info has been sold.
Utterly untrue. The telemarketers sell their services to companies in the US. They have offices in the US and assets in the US that can be seized and garnished.
Most domestic telemarketers violate the law.
True, but the only reason they get away with it is that the authorities don't deal with the problem very seriously. If illegal junk marketing calls were treated in the same way as drug dealers the industry would be dead PDQ.
Please do not verbally abuse them - you won't hurt the industry, just somebody (not unlike myself) who is trying to make ends meet
Again, wrong. Don't feel the slightest twinge of conscience as you tell the miserable heap of offal what a loathsesome turd they are. It is a damn sight cheaper than therapy. People suffer from far too much tension and lack ways to chanel their aggression in socially useful ways.
My favorite is too ask them to hold the line while I play one of a selection of .wav files I keep stored for the purpose. These cover a range of dramatic scenes, my favorite being the 'missus threatening to jump out of the window' which the telemarketer gets to hear. I had to stop playing that after the cops came round one time to see what was up.
These days I don't get much chance to play them as the telemarketers have mostly put me on there 'be really sure not to call list'.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
Why you guys in the US use the same types of telephone numbers for cell and land-line phones. In every country I've lived in, a mobile number is distinctly different (usually more digits), and the prefixes are usually recognisable. Thus, in the UK or here in Australia for instance the telemarketer has to be aware that a mobile number is being called (and be prepared to wear the cost).
If your phone number is 555-1212, then write it down like this:
555-NOSPAM-1212
Everyone on Slashdot seems to believe it works with email addresses... it must work everywhere, right?
-- Terry
I just found out recently that junk faxes are legal in Missouri as a court decided the previous law was un-constitutional. I haven't been able to find out much information, but faxes come at 2am from some nearly untraceable company in Florida that doesn't care one bit if they call me in the middle of the night.
Anyone have any insight about what can be done?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Colorado recently enacted (law went into effect Monday) a No-call list that is maintained by an outside company. Lots of amusing tidbits in this and this article, including that 790,000 people have signed up for the list (sign-up was available before the law took effect), and that 600 complaints were received in the first two days the law was in effect. Fines don't come into place until the third offense, but the AG has already warned some companies to stop.
The Colorado No-call list can be joined here or by calling 1-888-249-9097.
Unfortunately, if you don't already live in Colorado, most of the residents don't want you to move here (if you live here you know what I mean).
Denver Isuzu Suzuki
I don't know anyone who actually pays a per minute charge for their calls - everyone just gets the minute plan that suits them and pretty much always finish the month under their limit. It works out much cheaper that way.
You're paying per minute, you're just buying in bulk.
Paying for what you use makes sense. Paying for telemarketers to call you makes no sense at all.
Telemarketer: We'd like to give you free, any room in your house, a carpet shampoo!
Me: I have hardwood floors. (Substitute "I'm in Jail right now" for laughs)
Telemarketer: How about your furniture?
Me: Leather.
Or:
TeleM: We'd like to give you 5 pounds of fresh meat, delivered to your door! ...And a devout member of the OTC (The Church of Satan) and the NRA.
Me: I'm vegetarian. And I don't like people coming to my door.
TeleM: How about frozen vegetables?
Me:
TeleM: *click*
TeleM: We'd like to offer you our exclusive low long distance rates!
Me: I don't call anyone.
TeleM: You don't have any family in other parts of the country?
Me: I did, but they were slaughtered by pirates off the coast of China...(supressing a sob)*sniff*
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
In Europe you pay a huge fee to call a cell phone. In the US the subscriber pays. This sux if you get spam calls and the mobile co did not offer first minute free.
In theory calling cell phones is ilegal in the US. This is not easy to check for however since a single area code can have mobile numbers and land lines.
Now for the part nobody mentioned yet, the problem is about to get much harder as under the new regime any number can be for a land line or a mobile. Furthermore it wil be possible to map numbers from one area code onto a completely different area code.
Essentially in the future your telephone number will be capable of being used anywhere, at least in the US (eventually worldwide).
What this means is that the companies that track SS7 signalling info are going to have to provide info on what kind of line the call eventually maps to. There could also be a role for a national do not call list - possibly organized by a private company.
Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
First things first.
;-)
You must prove they called you on purpose. The burden of proof is on you. It isn't like you get that second call and viola! you get a check. There is court time involved.
You must also ask to speak with a supervisor. If a non-supervisor talks to you claiming they are a super that is good enough for you - you have no way of knowing. But you have the right to request a supervisors help, and you you must in order to guarantee you will win your case.
While working for the local "Enquirer" newspaper here in "Cincinnati" [hint hint], I learned that when a sales rep takes your number down to be put on the DNC list they can legally just throw them away because sales reps are known to screw up the process. You won't win in court claiming "well John promised me..."
Also some other tips:
The caller won't give you their full name. They don't have to because they have the same right to privacy that you enjoy (remember, it's the company that insists on calling you - they just want to get paid).
The FTC has strict rules against cursing on the phone. You can yell at them and say what you want, but they have to show restraint or you can win up to $10,000 dollars, sometimes more.
Lastly: It's bad business to call cell phones - how can you even tell if they want your product
We had special lists which help pager and cell numbers- we ran it across our main lists to remove them. That is the only good thing we did there.
The best thing was when I got an auto-dial number which for some reason just had a local TV station's audio play 24/7. It was great to listen to TV while not doing anything.
Get your Unix fortune now!
It works great -- I've received about 2 unsolicited calls in 5 years.
One simple rule for its versus it's
I'll tell you exactly what's happening.
There's a sub-industry within telemarketing called "voice broadcasting". These are the jerks who leave voicemail messages advertising various goods and services.
I used to work for a company who had an entire OC3 dedicated to doing this (their phone bill comes shipped on a crate -- litterally), so I know how their technology works. They get paid based on how many messages they leave. So, when a live person answers, their equipment cheerfully hangs up. Nice, huh?
Oh, and that partial message you received? I'll bet your voicemail system plays your personal greeting, and then pauses for a second and skips into an operator message that says "to leave a message, press one now or stay on the line" or some such thing. That pause between your greeting and the operator message throws things off -- it starts playing the message before your voicemail starts recording.
For fear of retribution, I can't give you any more info than that. If you do a google search on "voice broadcasting" you will probably be able to find the company responsible.
Considering most tele-marketers use auto-dialers, would it be so hard to grab the definitive list of area-code/extensions that are exclusively used for cellular phones and just apply that to their dial-out lists?
Its not that hard to block out those numbers. What is probably a pain is getting those numbers to begin with. Plus, if no one raises hell, or just says "don't call me" it will never happen.
The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
>> All cellphone numbers start with 07. Other
>> ranges of numbers are reserved for various
>> things.
>
> And what happens when you run out of 07 numbers?
> Don't tell me "it'll never happen".
It'll never happen, smartass. The 07 is followed by nine more digits. That gives us 1,000,000,000 (1 billion, in US terms) possible mobile numbers. The population of the UK is ~58,000,000 (58 million). So unless you think we need over 17 mobile numbers each...?
And if it turns out we do, no big deal. We use 01 & 02 for geographic, 08 for non-geographic, 09 for and premium, etc, but we still have a few digits reserved for future use.
[...]
> Don't you have that "crazy" per-minute charge
> for local calls on your land lines? We don't
> here.
How silly -- your line rental is therefore subsidising people who make more local calls than you do, since they are increasing the requirement for network capacity more than you, but you are bearing the costs of running the network equally.
> Anyway, there's so many minutes included with
> my calling plan that I've never paid an extra
> charge.
So you paid in advance, instead of afterwards... that doesn't really change very much, does it. And again you're buying a set deal, and since you don't use it all, again it looks like you're subsidising other people. Oh dear.
My monthly payment is exactly zero -- I pay only for the calls I make.
In these parts, cell phones are all in the 681, 631 and 684 exchanges. 681 is for Roger's AT, 631 is for SaskTel, and 684 is for PayAsYouGo Rogers.
I remember something I heard about five years ago (I think in Colorado) where a guy started recording all his calls from telemarketers. He would guide the calls into a perverted personal quest with explicit probing questions like "are you wearing any underwear...what color...", and as the caller would respond, the questions became more intense.
He took his favorite top 10 messages, and made a CD and sold them as a joke album in local stores. Some local radio stations picked up copies and were playing them during the morning rush-hour.
As I recall, he was able to disclose the "call was being recorded" and was clear that "the caller could hang up if they wish". I guess this was enough to cover himeself legally. Some of the calls really got pretty detailed and disgusting...until the unfortunate caller couldn't stand any more and eventually hung up.
Anyone heard of this?
Suncoast Linux - Sarasota, FL
The Colorado No-call list can be joined here [coloradonocall.com] or by calling 1-888-249-9097.
An Oklahoma law just went into effect establishing the same thing. Does anybody know where to join this list? (oklahomanocall.com doesn't work)
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
I will go through this one more time.
You call a friend. You tell him to call your cell. You are next door to him.
According to your plan, this is a free call, as all local calls are free in North America.
Now, explain to me how they are going to make money on the cellphone system in this fashion, and don't forget the pay-as-you-go systems that would only require a single "refill" for the life of the phone if it only received incoming calls. And try to keep it under 100 words.
Thank you.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
I don't know if this would work for cell phones, but it worked for my land line:
1) Change your phone number. Request that your new number is unlisted (meaning one cannot request it from directory services, and it's not in The Book).
2) Do not give your new phone number to anyone but friends, family, and others you trust -- explain to them it is unlisted and not to share your phone number without checking with you first. Do NOT give it to your credit card company. Do not give it to your electric company. Do not give it to your bank. Do not enter it in web forms, contest forms, or any other kind of form. Do not give it to strangers. Do not give it to the paper boy. Treat it at least as preciously as your Social Security or debit card number.
3) For god's sake, don't give it to Dunn and Bradstreet!
4) Should you get a telemarketing call (random dialers can still hit you), follow the junkbuster procedures for recording information about the call and have you put on the DNC list so you can sue if they call again.
Does it work? I didn't get any telemarketing calls for four years -- zero, zilch, nada, none -- until I got a DUNS number from Dunn and Bradstreet. I got three calls over a period of five months (various companies trying to sell goods and services to my "small business"), bitched up a storm trying to get my number removed from their public listing, then finally changed my number again.
Pain in the ass? Yeah, a little. Worth it? OH YES! I can jump out of the shower, shampoo dripping on the carpet, with confidence that when I pick the phone up there will be someone on the other end of the line I do want to talk to.
In many states in the US you can specifically opt out of receiving calls from jails/prisons. In california the recorded message you get when 'snake' calls by mistake offers a kind of 'press one to not receive calls from jail again'.
What they don't tell you is this is permanent & it's a complete bitch to get this block removed - some secretary at my workplace pressed one once - and we provide social services to people just out of jail and we ended up having to get a new line because people about to get out couldn't call us and the state *refused* to unblock the number.
Anyway, that glitch sounds relatively irrelevant to your situation (hope you don't have teenage kids : ) so try calling your local dept. of corrections and asking about it if it's really driving you (and poor snake) nuts.
My work cell phone has a simple number - if you make one up for my area code, you've probably got it.
Some woman gave her credit card company a fake phone number before she skipped town, leaving a large bill piled up. The fake number she gave them was my cell phone number.
Those bastards were calling a couple of dozen times a day demanding to speak to whatever her name was, and assumed that I was trying to trick them when I kept trying to tell them I had no idea who they were talking about. Every time I tried to explain what was going on, they would just keep yelling, threatening, and swearing. If I hung up, they would call back within 60 seconds.
It was made worse, because I work nights, and have to be reachable in case of emergencies via that cell phone.
Eventually they stopped calling after a month or two - I guess they managed to track her down.
I'm a hitman, just making a living the only way I know how. Please don't insult by suggestioning I use my abilities in another profession where I might do some good, or learn another skill. I am only human, and doing anything other than calling people is beyond me.
What?
Yeah, funny, a lot of telemarketers are from the midwest, because they have a neutral accent. The midwest, while slowly becoming more diverse as far as race, it is still dominated by people of European descent. Most telemarketers that call me sound to be from the south; however.
What?
Verizon offers it. Anything that comes up on your caller ID as unknown name ,unknown number will be caught at the phone company. The caller will then be dropped into a voice box asking them to identify themselves. If they do so your phone will ring and it will be verizon asking you to accept the call. You then choose to accept it, deny it, drop them into your voice mail, or choose an option that sends a prerecorded message targeted at telemarketers that you are not interested and to put your number on their do not call list. Once again, Your phone will ring 'only' if he caller chooses to go through the auth process.
I have not gotten a single telemarking call since. Futhermore, You can ask verizon to block all phone calls originating from automated calling devices. See if your telco offers a similar option. Best $4.00 a month I ever spent.
Peter
www.alphalinux.org
Me: (after some looking to see where the ringing was coming from, opening the little door, and picking up) Um... Hello?
Telemarketer: Good afternoon. This is the Seattle Times we have a very special...
Me: Do you realize you've reached an elevator?
Telemarketer: (puzzled pause) Uh...Sir, let me check if we have your correct address...
Me: It's the 17th floor.. no wait.. the 18th.. no, wait.. now it's the 19th...
(And so on)
Apparently some office building are rigged so that even the elevator extensions have direct-dial...
A man, a plan, a canal: Suez!
And the other day I bought a can of Pringles and it was printed in both English and Spanish. Do you have a point? Did you ever think that perhaps the company, in some twisted scheme to make more of a profit, may sell their product to Spanish-speaking countries and not limit themselves to just the US/Canadian market?
I had 4 unknown number calls tonight. I finally answered #4 and had to say hello half a dozen times before some guy came on. He said he was from MCI and wanted to cut my telephone bill in half. I didn't let him finished. I asked if they were the ones that called here 3 other times that evening. He said he didn't know. I told him I wasn't interested in switching to MCI and asked to be put on their DO NOT CALL LIST. He said there wasn't such a thing. I informed him that they were required to by law. He said that wasn't possible because he was never told that in training. I asked for his super. He hung up on me. This shit is really aggravating.
Did you already add the "Help, I'm stuck on a mountaintop, and my minutes are up" spiel to your .wav collection. You should. It's hilarous ;-)
Say no to software patents.
Why not abuse the telemarketers? They are being incredibly rude, and they are abusing you by calling you.
I usually just tell them to put me on the no-call list, but if I am in a bad mood, they give me a chance to vent.
I once had a telemarketer call who was very persistent. I told him the got go f*ck himself. He hung up on me.
A while later, his supervisor called to chew me out for making his employee unhappy. I told *him* to go f*ck himself and hung up.
Never heard from them again.
This "its just their job" stuff shouldn't work for them any more than it did for the Waffen SS.
I don't work for immoral companies (I could make a lot of money selling my skills to organized crime, for example), and neither should they.
My current approach is to use my Fax number whenever I need to give a home phone number. Its amazing how many calls my Fax gets that never leave a fax message. Hee hee hee
The only good weather is bad weather.
That doesn't suddenly make charging to RECEIVE a call on a wireless device alright - I think it's INSANE. No wonder the wireless penetration in the US is so low.
So what you have fixed rate local calls - in Australia we pay like 0.15AUD (8c US) for local calls no matter how long they go for and we have a decent cellular charging system as well...
So if we can have the best of both worlds, I don't see why other countries can't.
Paying for what you use makes sense.
If phone companies would charge a reasonable per minute charge for cell phones then this would be fine. I make 1000+ minutes calls on my cell phone a month and my plan charges $40 a month (which I've never gone over). At the per minute rate 1000 minutes would cost me $450. (45c a call). Most of these calls are long distance - which most companies would charge 10c a minutre for - hence $100 a month. All in all I think I'm getting a reasonable deal.
Paying for telemarketers to call you makes no sense at all.
I agree - but I've never recieved a telemarketing call on my cell phone.
Correct, you cannot determine a cellphone from a landline using the area code (in ANY state). You can however, tell from the exchange (first 3 digits) - I am sure there are databases out there that will tell you which exchanges are cell phone exchanges.
It seems absolutely crazy to charge to receive calls, as this would cause the penetration of mobiles to drop dramatically as it would exclude poor people (e.g. many teenagers).
In most parts of the world mobile phones are numbered within psudo area codes, which are clearly identifiable as mobile phones. With no charges for incomming calls.
In the US, probabaly the entire NANP mobile phones look much like normal numbers, unless you start looking at the entire number down to the 7th digit. With the cost to the caller being the same as any other number in the same area code. Hence paying for incoming calls, even though cellular infrastructure is probably cheaper to build and maintain than landlines. Digging a trench, especially in an urban area, is not cheap.
One UK operator offered phones with numbering and charging similar to that in the US, they didn't sell very well.
The next digit of a mobile phone number (after 07) must be 7, 8, or 9, allowing for 'only' 300 million numbers. If the next digit is 6 then it's a pager number (does anyone still use those in the UK?) and if it's 0-5 it's a forwarding number.
This is the way it always has been and most non-technical people over here will look at you as if you were nuts if you suggested that local calls should be anything but free.