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8128 miles Per (US) Gallon
idletask writes: "Yes, you read well. This is the new record established this year in the Shell International Mileage Marathon (NOTE: English link, their figures are calculated using UK gallons), held this year on June 1st and 2nd on the Circuit of Nogaro, by a team from Université Paul Sabatier in Toulouse, France. This yearly
contest, sponsored by Shell since 1977, consists in travelling the longest distance with only one liter of gas (the record is therefore actually 3494km with 1 liter), at a minimum pace of 25kph (~15mph). Full results of the contest can be found in a PDF file. The only US team who participated this year scored 69th, with 1136mpg (483km with 1l)."
"The only US team who participated this year scored 69th, with 1136mpg (483km with 1l)."
Yes, but the US team's Sport Utility Test Vehicle pulled an ultralight trailer with a teeny boat on it.
I know some of you are having a tough time with the miles-per-gallon or kilometers-per-liter measurement, so I've taken the liberty of converting this to a useful measurement we can all relate to.
Simply put, 483km/1L is 1.2425 x 10^-6 earth-moon distances per cubic centimeter of fuel. I think that puts in it perspective
Of course 2171 actual miles on one liter of fuel would probally NOT scale very well when you are carying 4x the fuel at the beginning (One gallon instead of one liter). With numbers like this, weight must be a very important consideration.
I don't really mind double posts on
The only US team who participated this year scored 69th, with 1136mpg (483km with 1l).
As a European, why doesn't that surprise me?
Hmmm. The US "gas" would still cost approximately the same as the UK "gas" per km.
typical US gas gusler
None of the links in the story provide any useful information at all, as far as I can see. The first is for a "Mileage marathon society" which doesn't appear to have any information about a particular recent contest. The second is for the location at which the event was held; the third links to a blank page inside Shell with some plugin that doesn't work in my Mozilla. Searching Shell for "Mileage Marathon" produces lots of results in other languages and from 1998-99, but nothing topical.
/. as a source of unbiased and accurate information (cough) I'm interested in a few more details...
Does anyone have any actual information about this contest? Much as I trust
...that an English gallon is roughly 500 US gallons.
Not so impressive now, is it?
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
The most fuel efficient car you can get in the US is still the Hybrid Electtric Honda Insight. I have about 63 mpg average over the two years that I've had mine.
From the pictures, it looks like one rule was left out.
Genebrew
Unless they've recently changed the rules, they most definitely do _NOT_ give them their litre of fuel and tell them to keep going until they get bored. 8000 MPG, average speed of 20 MPH (say), that's over 2 weeks of continuous driving.
:-) and computed the MPG from that.
Last I heard they took the cars, ran them over an agreed course of a few miles maximum, excluded those who ran too slowly then measured the amount of fuel left in all the cars VERY CAREFULLY
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
it would be much more interesting to see who, given one liter of gas, could win a race over a road circuit. steady-state driving at low speed doesn't relate to most real-world driving.
So if you are calculating based on carrying capacity you are incorrect, the Honda isn't the most fuel efficient.
If you are just going by mpg without any other caveats, the Solectrica and EV-1 have you beat because they are pure electrics and use no gas.
On the other hand, Honda's new hybrid (based on the same technology) will probably be an even better family car than the Prius because of Honda's excellent CVCC gas engine technology. Go Honda!
Somehow I'm just not that impressed by a ultra efficient gasoline powered bobsled. I'm sure that there are plenty of engineering challenges involved in getting the most mileage out of the fuel allotted, but wouldn't a more directly applicable challenge be more interesting. Try getting the public to buy one of these things or the government to allow them on the road. I think it's very telling that Shell sponsors a fuel economy challenge with vehicles which no one could ever dream of seeing on an actual highway.
-- Adam
I participated in the Minnesota Technology Education Association's Supermileage Challenge in May. It was basically the same thing except it was just a bunch of high school teams. It really is a great competition, I learned a lot and had tons of fun.
My team ended up with a top mileage of 305 mpg, this was for the stock class. Fairly good considering we had limited time, budget, and experience.
The way our competition worked is this: Each team is given a fuel bottle and it is weighed before the start. You then go around 2 laps (of the 3 mile track at Brainerd International Raceway) for a total of 6 miles. They then weigh your fuel bottle again to determine how much gas is used (making sure there are no air bubbles in the fuel line). This ends up a pretty accurate way of determining gas mileage. The weight of the gas really shouldn't matter that much, since more weight would mean you carry your momentum longer. You have to complete 6 runs and they take the average of that.
Now since we are high school students, our main goal was to build a working car. You then focus on aerodynamics, good bearings so it rolls well, wheel alignment, steering, and driving practice. Getting practice is key. Not only to determine what will break, but also to get good at controlling your burns. Short burns at high rpm's get you up to speed(roughly 30, which was the max), at which point you cut the engine and coast down to around 10(you have to maintain an average of 15). By the end of the 2 day competition, you saw drivers getting very good at rolling to a stop inches over the finish line.
It was a really fun competition, we saw some very cool cars with everything from carbon fiber bodies, to computer sensors and lcd displays mounted on the steering wheel, and you could download all the data to a computer for analysis. Sweet stuff.
Why not just build a solar powered vehicle
Why not force a guy to drink a liter of gas, then make him bicycle a ludicrious distance.
Why not build a sailboat and pour the gas overboard?
What about nucler sumbarines?
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Two silly observations:
1) the home page has a link for "Pictures" and a link for "Photos". I half expected that when I clicked on the link for "Pictures" I'd see more crayon drawings, like the one taking up most of the main page. Not so, both links go to photographs, with "Photos" being slightly more candid.
2) No homophobia or anything, but the second car on the "Pictures" page says "FAG" on the side in big black letters. Heh. That tickles my "Beavis and Butthead" level sense of humor. It's probably an acronym for something, but never in a million years would anyone in the US come up with an acronym like that and plaster it on their vehicle.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
I was simply pointing out that this is further (completely tongue-in-cheek, unsubstantial) proof that that the Americans (as a generalisation) don't care about the environment. (...at least enough to worry about having efficient cars, anyway.)
I own a car in California that does 28 miles to the gallon (after conversion to UK sized units) and that was actually adevertised as being extremely efficient. My car in the UK does 34 miles to the gallon and no one there would consider that to be particularly efficient.
Don't even get me started on the amount of electricity that gets needlessly wasted in California. But it's cheap, right? And I won't be on this planet in 80 years time, right?
Actually, in the vernacular, the United states of America is referred to as "America" in much of the English-speaking world. Europe, however, is not a coutry, it is a group of socialist democracies that are curently desperately attempting to get their "international" "governing body" (The EU) to actaully govern, in regards to more than currency.
By the way, since Europe is a continent, England cannot truly be considered a part of the continent, since any peices of its' empire that is on the continent, are now no longer part of "the British Empire."
Sorry, you lose (the American revolutionary war, specifically.)
I'm a concientious
If you are going to post anything that may be considered as vaguely anti-American, do it as an anonymous coward.
I'm now being personally attacked, off-forum, as some kind of anti-American zealot. As someone that made the choice to move to the US, that's something that I am definitely not.
In Europe, and probably elsewhere, American cars have a reputation for being gas-guzzlers. Live with it.
I finished my post with a dig at the price of fuel in the UK. I notice that none of the British took particular offence to that.
I am not sure the source, but a lot of it probably comes from the 'US first attitude', that is portrayed by both national USA news and international news. What ever you might feel about Bush, much of his international politics is seen, from outside countries, as being a very naive and selfish.
Another difference is probably the fact that most European countries share a certain social agenda, whereby the good of the people is just as important as the good of corporation. In the US, its dog eat dog, though this is what allows the US to advance so much faster.
There is no country that does not have a certain arrogance when it comes to national pride. Like a ship, the larger tanker's errors will always be noticed more, and have a larger effect, than the small sail ship's in the same waters. For this reason the larger ship has to be more careful about errors it makes, if it isn't then the small sailing ships see the large tanker as being a bully, and arrogant towards it neighbours, in the pond. This is the way things are, like it or not.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Ummm, Europe deals with feul efficiencies better than the united states for a simple reason: Gas is very expensive.
Yes, that is one reason. Another reason is that the European consumers care about pumping the environment full of CO2.
The fact that very few Us teams entered a EUROPEAN contest says very little.
I don't dispute that. My comments, generally, say very little too.
I own a car in Georgia, and it gets 42 miles to the gallon, andit is considered pretty efficient, but I miss your point.
My point being that the subjective view of what is considered efficient is warped somewhere mid-atlantic.
I'm sorry, that is incorrect.
Presuming that you refer to the final paragraph of my post, then no - it is not incorrect.
You must state your post in the form of a reasonably intelligent statement (not just a bunch of random thoughts that occured to you.)
What on the slashdot forums? (Actually I believed, and still do, that that comment was very relevent to the thread)
Your evidence? That *you*, a European, own a lower gas mileage car in America than you own in Europe. So, if an American stole money in Paris but not in New York, would that be further proof that Europeans were thieves?
No, my little anecdote was highlighting the undeniable fact that what consitutes an efficient car is not considered equally in Europe and the US.
PER CAPITA (that is per human being)
;-)
:-(
I particularly liked how you pointed out the definition or per capita
Is it genetic or cultural?
Definitely cultural.
EPA ratings, much like ISO ratings, reflect close-to-perfect usage conditions (flat roads, constant speed etc). They are far from reflecting everyday use where you have to slow down/accelerate/etc constantly. And then again there are curves/uphills/etc. I doubt any of the cars you have listed actually score their listed mileages in everyday use. As a matter of fact, most reviews of the Prius (sold here in Europe, unlike the Insight) score it at 35-40mpg rather than the listed 48mpg EPA rating.
Which is where modern Diesel engines take a clear lead: accelerations don't require as much energy as gas engines require. The reason is that Diesel engines spot a much higher torque. Provided that you don't drive hard, you can be sure that VW's TDIs announced mileages WILL be what you actually consume. And if you drive hard, the mileage of a Diesel engine will decrease far less steadily than with a gas engine as well, always because of superior torque. The same goes on if you carry more passengers than yourself alone.
Just for information, I'm the (very) lucky owner of a BMW 330d (WARNING - UK gallons! Following figures are calculated using US gallons though). Cruising at 60mph, mileage is 41mpg, whether the road be flat or not. Cruising at 75mph, mileage "drops" to 35mpg - and this is not surprising if you consider that at both of these speeds, the engine provides its full torque of 288(!) lbft (~1800rpm at 60mph, ~2100rpm at 75mph), and full torque means best fuel efficiency. Not bad for an engine which spots 183hp and has a 3l displacement, eh? (and the car weighs 1.6 ton!)
Another example: a friend of mine owns a Skoda Fabia TDI 100 (a VW TDI, since Skoda is owned by VW - 100hp, 180 lbft torque, 1.9l displacement, 1 ton) (sorry, couldn't find an online review). We swapped cars on a WE just for fun and I wanted to see how well the TDI performed... 46mpg at 60mph and 39mpg at 75mph (yes, greater gap here, but unlike the BMW 3l engine, the TDI isn't on its max torque curve at 75mph).
And as an added bonus, both of these cars are enjoyable to drive. This is not so the case with, say, the Prius (which is available in EU, unlike the Insight). Again, thanks to the torque.
There are still two weak points with the Diesel engines, though, but these are being addressed. Technologies exist and will make inroads into the EU market in the next 3 years:
Of course, ultimately, fuel cells will replace Diesel and gas engines altogether, but it will be a good 10+ years before it gets viable (both cost-wise and reliability-wise). Both of the technologies above exist today and are [already on/close to make inroads into] the consumer market. Also consider that car manufacturers, by 2005, will have to obey "depollution" norms in EU which basically require engines to have a global mileage equal or better than 45mpg. Whatever the technology employed.
This is the best entrant in my opinion. It isn't the "most" fuel efficient entrant but, it is the most practical.
This stealth car not only gets great mileage, it is also invisible to radar. No more worries about those pesky speed traps. Of course, at 20 MPH the only speed trap you'll have to worry about is a school zone. But, no worries in this puppy.
Oh man thats exactly the shit my physics professor would do to us, he really loved dimensional analysis.
:)
:)
I remember on one midterm being asked to convert a measurement in miles per gallon into "furlongs per fortnight" which is pretty easy if you know that a god damn furlong is 220 yards, and a fortnight is 2 weeks. Needless to say furlong was *not* among the unit conversions I had choosen to memorize.
Bonus points if you can convert furlongs per fornight into granpa simpsons "rods per hoghead" (40 rods in one furlong)
Although to this day I still remember the conversion for furlongs, I think what I really learned in that course is not to take classes from assholes
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
On top of this, America accounts for a huge amount of the world's industrial production. A great deal of that energy is actually being used for something. While I will not argue that the USA couldn't do quite a bit to increase efficiency in all parts of the economy (just about everything I've tried to check in depth makes it appear that 2x is quite realistic for most applications not involving direct conversion of electricity to heat), there are excellent reasons why the USA is always going to have higher energy consumption per-capita than the "good folks" of Europe even if they are employing the same technologies just as well.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
I've been talking up the need for increased fuel taxes as a way to discourage consumption for over a decade. You can see how much progress I've made.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
I don't understand why Shell, the company who helps fund south african dictators to maintain control over their oil supply, is involved with this.
It's like Microsoft having an uptime contest.
c-hack.com |
First off, this isn't meant as an attack or anything, just stating what I think.
Slashdot is in the US. Many, if not the majority of the users are American. Well, maybe not most, but I'm sure there are more users from the US than any other country. That doesn't mean it should be US-centric, but that's the way it is.
You are right, often stating facts that make the US look bad in comparison to other countries will result in people flipping out. I think one reason is maybe that americans tend to think of Europeans as stuck up, and may think they're using those facts to just make themselves look better. As to your american psyche thing, I think it's more that sometimes the facts are wrong. Much like as someone pointed out that BTU/GNP is a much more meaningful measure. As for americans getting defensive, maybe it's because it often appears that the europeans (well, not just the europeans) are quick to point out those facts, as if they're the ones who are insecure and need the reassuring. Anyway, I think it just comes down to a "culture clash" of sorts, with misunderstandings on both sides.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
Yes, that is one reason. Another reason is that the European consumers care about pumping the environment full of CO2.
So you must only care about the environment when you are in Europe? You don't seem to care in America.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
My brother had a metro and he commuted 30 miles a day going 65 MPH on freeways. Never had a problem.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
I can't believe these Europeans. You know if it wasn't for us you would be under the rule of the Thrird Reich!? Without the massive support from the U.S. (we churned out more planes, tanks, etc than all other allieds and axis combined) you would have been crushed by Hitler.
You don't have low mileage cars because you care about the evironment. You do because your socialist governments tax gas to $4.00.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
Hardly! Although I must admit that it is much easier to be less wasteful of resources and more ecologically aware whilst in Europe.
I could have bought a huge SUV or truck, but I chose not to (of course, many people need those but many more, like me, don't). Regardless, I walk, bike or catch a bus to work everyday instead of driving. I consider myself to be responsible member of this _global_ society; for example, I expend considerable effort to recycle my garbage which, believe me, is not easy around here. Maybe other parts of the US are different?
Now that I think the wave has passed and people are off reading other articles, I can speak to you almost privately, leastsquares.
;-)
I think we both believed what we said, but we also both earned our "Flamebait" mod points.
I want to add that though I believe the things I said, those aren't my only beliefs. I've lived and worked in many countries and have seen with my own eyes that great ideas and smart, talented people are widely, if not quite evenly, distributed around the world.
It's obvious to me that all countries have a lot to learn from other countries, and this absolutely includes Americans having a lot to learn from Europeans (lumping Brits, for better or worse, into the latter category.)
I assure you that I spend a great deal more time recommending to my fellow Americans that they pay more attention to ideas from Europe (and elsewhere) than I spend in debates with Europeans such as this one.
I also like Europeans, in general. I've worked in Europe, and will happily do so again, and even here in the US I work in a department with three Europeans for every American. I like that.
Frankly, though, there's an impediment when trying to persuade Americans to pay more attention to Europe that I don't face when trying to get them to pay more attention to Japan, for example. That is that the European ideas are so often presented to us as "further proof of our European moral and intellectual superiority to you disgusting Americans", while the Japanese ideas tend to be presented as "here's how we're solving this problem".
In the former case, we have to wonder how much credibility to give the idea, given that clearly some part of the goal of the presenters isn't to help us solve a problem but to gain some sort of competitive advantage over us, even something as petty as "see, Europeans good, Americans bad".
Nevertheless, there are just too many good ideas and smart people (and people I like) in Europe for me to stop paying attention, and I'll continue to make that point to my fellow Americans.
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
...we also both earned our "Flamebait" mod points. ;-)
;-)
;-)
;-)
Indeed.
Before I respond further, I would like to reiterate the fact that my very first comment "As a European, why doesn't that surprise me?" was refering to the genuine belief in Europe, rightly or wrongly, that Americans drive huge gas-guzzling monster vehicles. It wasn't intended as a dig at the US or its peoples. To be honest, I found your initial reply to that email fairly offencive. But moving on...
I work in a department with three Europeans for every American. I like that.
I work with 3 Asians for every American. I would like that if I could convince them to drink some beer
That is that the European ideas are so often presented to us as "further proof of our European moral and intellectual superiority to you disgusting Americans", while the Japanese ideas tend to be presented as "here's how we're solving this problem".
This is a cultural issue. Us Europeans use this tone even when (or maybe especially when?) debating within the European communities.
When discussing Americans, the word "disgusting" should probably be replaced by "selfish" to make it correlate with the honest opinion of an average Briton. Of course, this is nothing more than a gross stereotype. Unfortunately for the US, there are significant issues with outsider's opinions of it. This is a important problem since the US is now the world's dominant super-power. My belief that these opinions stem from (a) the selfish political behaviour of the US (i.e. the Kyoto agreement) (b) the disdain seemingly-exhibited by the American people for anyone that has morals or culture which are considered non-American.
Now this discussion is definitely far far offtopic!!! So I'll just say that I like the US and its peoples, even if I do not like the way that it is currently screwing with the planet. Likewise, I like the Europeans, even if the British are stuck up their own arses and the French smell of garlic
PS All Americans drive inefficient vehicles.
It's nice that they get that great gas mileage, but in my opinion they sacrifice power to get it. All of these cars can barely get out of their own way. There are a number hybrid cars that I see regularly on my way to work. Some of the entrance ramps to the highways around here are pretty short and you have to give it some gas to safely merge into traffic. Well, these car come down the ramps nearing a snails pace. You've got to be on your toes if they merge in front of you.
I guess I could just never make the performance sacrifice for mileage.
I find it difficult to beleive that somehow Europeans are societally more environmentally conscious because of (even partially) moral reasons, as European morals have been shown to be about par for the course over the last century.
There is no reason to beleive that European consumers are more thoughtfulthan Americans, especially because our consumer cultures are nearly identical. I do not deny our cultural imperialism or incredible ethnocentrism, but I fail to see how our environmental defects reflect this.
No, I was not referring to the final paragraph of your post, I was in fact parodizing a well known television show, named Jeopardy.
The randomness I referred to isn't referring to the relevance, but the degree of organization and coherence.
I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.
I'm a concientious
Allright, you're off the hook! ;-) Just next time buy a Nissan Sentra. (I got one. 40 mpg. very nice)
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
I find it difficult to beleive that somehow Europeans are societally more environmentally conscious because of (even partially) moral reasons,
;-)
We will have to continue to disagree on that point then. (And I disagree strongly. Just look at the amount of environmental activism in Northern Europe and compare that to the US).
No, I was not referring to the final paragraph of your post, I was in fact parodizing a well known television show, named Jeopardy.
Oh. I've never watched that.
The randomness I referred to isn't referring to the relevance, but the degree of organization and coherence.
Okay, fair enough. I have a habit of making what appear to me to be obvious jumps.
Anyway, I'd better go and celebrate the US independance from the British now
Just my $0.02 here.
The reason many Americans are so sensitive is that we get tired of hearing that we are all rotten people who sit around all evening being violent while the cultured Europeans save the earth.
That being said, I know what you meant in your message. And you are correct that many people are hypersensitive, but in multi-national forums I have frequently been attacked...posters saying things like "as an American, you know nothing about x", where x has been everything from the history of World War I to computer technology.
I get really tired of being told that all Americans are lazy, stupid, uneducated, fat and rich. I work hard, I have degrees in Electrical Engineering, Anthropology, Computer Engineering and a minor in Chemistry. I know about history and I don't like Football of any sort. I don't like violent action films, I know my wines and can have an intelligent conversation about the history of Bath, if required.
So that's the nerve even a well-intentioned poster like you can hit. Remember though the problem of text-only postings where people can't tell your comment may have been some ironic humor...and many of the people flaming you are the "14 year old slashdotters" who have chased many of us from this forum...I only rarely post now.
BUT, that being said there is a tendancy that anytime there is a case where a European country does something better (or different) than the US, there seems to be a flurry of slashdot posts along the lines of "What do you expect from a stupid American anyway".
This post is pointless, 'cause nobody will read it. But I fell better anyway.
(1) the US does waste energy
(2) The US is huge. You don't understand it unless you have lived here...in particular the west. I have driven 43 miles today already and I still have not gone home from work. That is driving to work and two errands. Why don't I take public transportation? It would add two hours to my day. I already work 8-10 hours per day, with only two weeks off a year. Another 2 hours I cannot handle. Perhaps if I had a 30 hour work week and 1-2 months of vacation I would feel differently, but the extra fuel is nothing to me if it allows me another two hours of life per day.
(3) The dense US cities are much more efficent, because everything is close by, like Europe. Also, it is 38C where I am right now. That's bloody hot. That means I run my air conditioner. If it never got over 25C I could save a lot of energy, but it does not work that way here.
(4) Citizens of the US are not of one genetic group. We are comprised of people from nations and cultures all over the world...I am surprised you don't know that. But for the last 20-or-so years we keep hearing "you are Americans, therefore you are, by definition, violent and bad." I find this amusing from Europe, who did their best to self destruct not once but twice in the last century....one duke gets shot so you decide to kill 8.5 million people to make up for it.
(5) The US does need to work on its energy use, I agree. But Europe is poisoning the environment as well. How many major rivers have US companies killed in the last ten years...easy, Zero. Europe has destroyed all life in TWO major rivers in the same time span. Long after the US realized how terrible above-ground and ocean nuclear testing was, France did not give a damn about detonating their bombs wherever they please. Although I am an anglophile, the British have poisoned entire islands with experimental weapons. So there is PLENTY of environmental blame to go around.
Sport Utility Test Vehicle pulled an ultralight trailer with a teeny boat on it.
[grin]
Did you see how tiny these silly things are?
If I had one of these things kicking around the garage, I'd probably accidentally end up using it as a tire chock for my 1976 Dodge Ram.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
Heh. What I liked most was how in a lot of the pictures, you see someone following on a bike. You'd think that that would be a better way to get gas milage.
:)
More interesting, is that none of the cyclists are wearing helmets, but the drivers are. At 30 mph, even if you hit a brick wall in one of these things, you're just going to bump a knee, really. It looks like they would save on gas milage if they ditched the 5lb helmets.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
In other words, you guys are talking about a fairly typical diesel-electric hybrid scheme. The Prius and Insight are essentially the same idea only using gasoline (aka petrol). Gas is more readily available in many parts of the United States.