Gaming Zone?

texchanchan writes "The BBC reports on a study by Dr. Costas Karageorghis, Brunel University (London): 'Recent research has suggested that it could be possible for a person immersed in a computer game to achieve the same level of meditative concentration' usually found in religious contemplatives and athletes in 'The Zone.' The article also quotes Dr. Karageorghis as saying 'It's a deeply pleasurable experience and it's something that's not very often experienced by people, rather it's something that often represents people's peak experiences in a particular area.'"

Comments

In Reply

[Henry V .009]

"Flow State is an optimal psychological experience..." said Dr Costas Karageorghis, lecturer in sports psychology at Brunel University.

QUACK, quack, quack--
I am terribly sorry for that outburst. I have apparently left the duck key pressed on my computer. Please excuse me for a moment while I correct this.

funny seeing this

[colmore]

funny seeing this after waking up at 1 PM due to a 12 hour marathon nethack session last night...

I know

[iq in binary]

Exactly what they're talking about. I remember playing CS and getting ripped on because everyone was absolutely sure I was using an aim/wall hack; when in reality it was me on a gaming "high" being able to loose a bullet with the hairs on someone's head within a half second of seeing an opponent.
It's rather hard to explain, but sometimes someone's level of interactivity with the game seems to put the person in their avatar's shoes. If this level of interactivity and concentration can be achieved in other environments (say, a car), you end up with prodigies and "l33ts".
Nothing new, really, just scientists noticing an ongoing phenomena.

Re:I know

[(outer-limits)]

It still makes absolutely no sense at all, but please don't try to explain it, I doubt it ever would make sense.

They'll look for...

[Succa]

...any possible excuse to play more games, eh? I'd chalk this one up to pseudoscience.

The !Zone

[cybermace5]

In my experience, yes there is a "zone" when everything seems to work and I totally wipe the walls with anyone nearby.

However, what about the losing streaks? There seems to be another level where everything seems to go wrong, and I have to quit and try later.

I find it hard to believe anyone would be surprised by this article, though; it's the same for any activity that involves quick thinking and hand-eye coordination. Sometimes the neurotransmitters are extra zippy :-)

Re:Drugs

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Some stimulant drugs (coke, meth) do seem to have a very similar though not identical effect, which is a big part of the reason people take them -- all the fun, no effort.

But yes, I strongly suspect that just about any activity you enjoy, practice a lot, and are good at can put you "in the zone." I've experienced it while running, while coding, while writing, while having sex (okay, lately I haven't been practicing that last as much as I'd like, though things do show signs of turning around soon ... ;) Hell, I used to sometimes get that same feeling back when I was an ER medic -- a busy night shift in the ER is no one's idea of fun, but there's a definite flow to it, a rhythm, and when you really get into it, when you're triaging mass casualty victims or running a code and everything is going just right, it's a powerful experience.

certain games need the zone

[Alric]

Some of my friends play console games, like Frequency, where you have to move your fingers in complex patterns of complex rhythms at a mindnumbing speed. When playing the hardest boards in these games, my friends will often enter a trance-like state. You can yell at them or cut off your own arm, and they will still finish the board.

I've found a swift blow to the stomach or saying, "Oh shit, the pizza's here, dude. Gimmme your money," are the best ways to pull them out of it.

Alric.

programming zone?

[Eil]

Does anyone here ever *think* they achieve this Flow State while coding? I can definitely see the common ground between sports and video games... both require strong mental agility, the constant evaluation of possible strategies and split-second decisions and whatnot.

And, in light of that, I guess I answered my own question. Programming is more about careful thinking than quick thinking. But then if the key element to being in "The Zone" is concentration, the perhaps coding would apply. Definitely something for me to ponder sometime.

Oh yeah, and while I do agree with their thesis, that article (not to mention their hideous "cutting edge" methods) sounded just a bit hokey, don't you think?

Re:programming zone?

[Darth_Burrito]

Does anyone here ever *think* they achieve this Flow State while coding?

No man, I take a potty break every couple hours to make sure this doesn't happen.

Re:programming zone?

[martyb]

Does anyone here ever *think* they achieve this Flow State while coding?

Most definitely... often 2 or 3 times in a day. Never before thought to associate it with meditation, but I can see similarities.

My own experience has been that when I am in the zone, there's a certain balance:

• I know [most of] the subject matter. There's only so much "new stuff" that I can squeeze into my head in a given period of time. There's a discomfort for me as I approach that limit (think cramming for final exams). The less knew stuff I have to learn along the way, the more room I have available in my short-term memory to keep track of the programming details.
• There's the right amoung of challenge. There's enough of a challenge so that I'm not bored, yet not so much that I'm overwhelmed. At either of those extremes, there's a feeling of discomfort.
• I'm making steady progress. When trying to develop a piece of code, there's a whole slew of decisions that need to be made each second. Variable names, language constructs (syntax), algorithms, interfaces, exception handling, etc. When I try something, and keep getting compiler errors, that'll zap me out of the zone pretty quickly. There's an element of risk-taking and success, time-after-time. Confidence builds. Anxieties fade and ultimately disappear.
• I'm free from interruptions and distractions.. One phone call or someone popping their head into my office for a "quick question" can blow it all away. It's KNOWING that I won't be interrupted that allows me to put my "guard" down and apply a bit more of my mind into it. I can stay focused.
• I'm physically comfortable. Not too hot or too cold. Not hungry. Helps to not be sick, too. When any of those are operative, it's a distraction from my concentration. The less intrusion from the "outside (physical) world" the better for me to focus on my "intellectual world".
• I want to do it! There's a hunger, a wanting, a desire... an openness and receptivity. There's a sense of hope and joy and happiness. When I feel FORCED to do something, there's generally a displeasure, resentment, anger, and probably some fear, too.

By no means is this an exhaustive list; it's just my own experience. Yet, I suspect many of these factors are true for others. Through it all is a sense that things are within my "comfort zone"; neither too much nor too little. There's also a sense of continuity whereby each small success builds on the next until there's a sense that the next challenge can be readily solved, too. When that happens, I have no sense of the passing of time, I can see the minute details along with the big picture and all the levels in between.

In short, I'm receptive to what's coming in, I'm experiencing pleasure in what I'm doing, and I'm successful in what I'm producing.

Re:programming zone?

[Jerf]

Not only is "the Zone" quite real in programming, one of the most importent aspects of being a great programmer is being able to acheive this state with reasonable reliability. (Nobody can do it all the time.) In fact, smart managers use that to their advantage when figuring out how to organize and manage their programmers.

IMHO, it's nothing mystical, and treating it as such as some people do, while possibly fun, is counterproductive in the end. You can't guarentee entrance, but there are definate concrete steps you can take to get there.

So?

[Dthoma]

Why shouldn't gamers be able to enter "The Zone" if sportsmen and the religious can? It's not as if gamers are greatly different, and gaming often requires the same sort of concentration as any sport; gamers do often have the same sort of traits as the religious, such as devotion (must login to Everquest/Planetarion/whatever soon!) and rote memorisation of concepts important to their game/religion (ooh, hit points, defence points, attack points!).

i do not know about mediation comparisions but...

[atari2600]

When i am in the thick of action - fragging opponents in Unreal Tournament at a mad pace and protecting the flag at my teams base - or crouching down with the German machine gun in MOHAA to take out the Allies coming towards me in a multiplayer game and crouching in a dark corner to reload - my reflexes are sharp - they better be or i am dead meat.

Also when playing UT for long periods(~2hrs+) or looking around in eerie corners of System Shock2, my hands become cold and almost the darkest shade of red and my face becomes so hot and to me the world ends and starts with the game in front of me - phone calls are ignored - door rings are ignored when i am in a clan battle - the PC is checked and double checked before those crucial games - and the reflexes have helped me in real life (trust me)...ok back to GTA3.

Atari

Re:Weird but unsurprising

[ThePilgrim]

I think it's down to a combination of concentration and pleasure.

If you are doing somthing you like, this is where my biology lets me down, you produce 'happy' chemicals, possabley also an adrenalin rush.

This probably combines with the chemicals produced by your brain when you concentrate to get you into 'the zone'.

How ever, just to piss on the BBC's bonfire. This artical looks more like a puff pice for one of their 'science' programs, as I'd hardly call a recerach sample of 2 with no control a representitve sample.

Famous test subject?

[Bistronaut]

Is it just me, or is the "gamer" test subject pictured Rowan Atkinson? (Mr. Bean, Black Adder)

Re:Drugs

[skidgetron]

Wow, you seem to reach the so called "zone" a lot there dude. Are you sure that you're reaching this "zone", or just feeling really good. "hey I was just walking down the street, and it put me in the zone!" "funny you should say that, while getting my haircut, I too was in the zone!" *high fives*

Nirvikalpa-Samadhi

[NortonDC]

A term used in Vedanta to refer to the highest, transcendent state of consciousness. It is the realization of "I am consciousness" which exists without the thought, "I am consciousness." In this experience there is selflessness, no-mind, non-duality, and the subject-object relationship momentarily disappears. It is the highest, samadhi-state of non-dual union with one's own consciousness.

I swear I had this experienced induced by a game of Wolf3D. The power failure in the middle of it was really disorienting.

quote source

High levels of focus and concentration...

[Cloudmark]

While I find the research quite interesting, as most of the posts on this thread have pointed out, this isn't particularly uncommon. Certain individuals have the ability to narrow-focus in the extreme when presented with the correct stimulus.

All of the individuals described (athletes, strongly religious people, and of course coders/gamers) are inclined towards extreme focus, high levels of motivation, and activities that lend themselves to those traits.

It would be interesting to see reseatch done to determine if there was any neurochemical basis for this type of hyper-focus. Do certain brains, when presented with a particular stimulus, produce certain chemicals/neurotransmitters that lead to this heightened awareness and performance?
Also, are there any side-effects? People have described elation, ecstacy, etc. Is this purely mental or is there a biological basis for it?

The Zone?!

[letoram]

"You unlock this door with the key of imagination. "

./quake3.x86 +set fs_game osp +connect door 27960 +password imagination
*check*

"Beyond it is another dimension. A dimension of sound."
:opening /dev/dsp
*check*

"A dimension of sight."
:...loading libGL.so: Initializing OpenGL display
*check*

"A dimension of mind..."
:self.fetch_coffee.drink
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuh *check*

"... You've just crossed over into the Twilight Zone"
why yes indeed :-)

The psychology of optimal experience

[ascii]

FYI - what Dr. Karageorghis is referring to is Mihalyi Csikszentmihalyi's work on "Flow - The psychology of optimal experience" in which he describes the characteristics of enjoyable experiences. The following is an excerpt from the book, describing these characteristics:

1. the experience usually occurs when we confront tasks we have a chance of completing.
2. we must be able to concentrate on what we are doing.
3. - 4. concentration is usually possible because the task undertaken has clear goals and provides immediate feedback.
5. one acts with a deep but effortless involvement that removes from awareness the worries and frustrations of everyday life.
6. enjoyable experiences allow people to exercise a sense of control over their actions.
7. concern for the self disappears yet paradoxically the sense of self emerges stronger after the flow experience is over.
8. the sense of the duration of time is altered.
(Csikszentmihalyi; p49)

What's interesting is the similarity of these characteristics to some works done on computergames by Greg Costikyan ("I have no words and I must design"), Chris Crawford ("The Art of Computer Game Design") as well as works on games in general, such as Avedon & Sutton-Smiths "The study of games".

Csikszentmihalyi's work is !very! interesting if you're into the epistemology of computergaming, which - humbly - happens to be the topic of my graduate thesis ;)

Re:duh

[krmt]

If there's grant money involved, a study was obviously needed . Whether it was needed by the general public or just this researcher is another question.

Zen of ... doing things

[magi]

In Zen buddhism, and many schools of martial arts, you can find the following concepts:

Isshin, "one mind", means extreme focusing on a single topic or a target. One archery master has written: "One life, one arrow. Use your entire life for firing one arrow."

Zanshin, cautious mind, means broadness of perception, being aware of everything that's happening around you.

Mushin, empty mind, is totally free of fear, distress, pain, and other distractions. "Mushin doesn't get entangled to anything, but flows as freely as a flowing water, finding its way in a riverbed."

The goal is to find a mental state where all three aspects combine.

Of course, martial arts teachers say that mushin can only be attained after years, if not decades, of practice. I don't know if that's true - they might be confusing superior mental state with actual superior performance, which is a combination of skill, physical prowess, and mental state, and might therefore not be relevant.

I believe these aspects are pretty common in about everything people do, not just martial arts, sports, computer games, or zen monk business. Some martial arts people, such as the sword master Mushashi, have said the same, when they have observed the same mental states in artistic performers, and actually in people of all professions.

Personally, I love computer games, and especially in first-person-shooters I often find moments where the game just "flies" with a deadly rhythm. There's definitely zanshin there, and possibly also isshin and mushin. Assuming that I'm right about the meaning of isshin and mushin, I might say that mushin is very common in playing, while isshin is less clear.

Such mental states do not of course quarantee success, because you're probably not the only good player there, and good skill, reactions, and especially items may usually give better results that any game Zen. ...maybe the "easily flying game" is just because I've managed to scrounge all the best weapons and armor...

Games do resemble stimulant drugs. I just finished Baldur's Gate, which I started playing two weeks ago. When I started, I played 30 hours straight with almost no breaks. I didn't feel any need for sleeping or eating or doing or thinking anything else. It's same thing with all new games, usually I play them through in a weekend.

As a side note, I must say that attaining such states might be easier for some people. For example, ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) is often associated with super-concentration, one which is often compared in psychological texts to "a mental state common with top athletes". Go figure.

Losing streaks

[xixax]

However, what about the losing streaks?

That would be the day I accidentally trashed a very expensive database that we were building by sorting a hash table that was never meant to be sorted. After getting the BOFH to restore it from backup (whew), I told my boss and went home. I am glad I was not piloting an oil-tanker that day in that state. Can tanker captains and jet pilots take the day off becauase they are too far outside the zone?

Xix.