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Consumer Friendly (or Disney Hostile) DVD Players?
solli asks: "After 13 years of relatively faithful service my Mitsubishi(!) VCR has finally kicked the bucket, and I am now thinking of moving on to DVDs. One of the only things preventing me from buying a DVD is the fact that some media companies like to make you watch FBI warnings, trailers, and ads before allowing you to view the actual movie (like Disney's Tarzan). Of course, there is such a large demand for region free players and other specialized needs that niche markets have developed to fill that demand. However, I have seen nothing about players that give you the freedom to navigate through the disk the way you want to, instead of how the content producer wants you to. What DVD players exist that let the viewer take full advantage of the nonlinear properties of the DVD media? Can any of the available players ignore the directives embedded on-disk to disable certain controls at particular times?"
You can always try picking up one of the old APex AD 600 Players. Macrovision disabled, Region free.
god i remember the good ol days of flipbooks.....all you had to do was open to the desired page, and start the movie from there.......no ads, no feds, no nothin......course, there was no sound either, but the movies didn't really need it then anyways.
Some software players, particularly non-commerical ones like IFOEDIT, or some of the open-source players that have appeared, let you toggle ignoring the bits that prohibit user operations (like FF/skip) at places like the FBI warning. Yeah, it's a slight hassle having to hook your PC up to a TV, but I don't know of any standalone units that have this feature.
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Exactly how lazy are you that you cant wait an additional 12 seconds for the FBI warnings to scroll by? Use that valuable time to pick your nose I say.
I hate to say it, but a PC is a lot more flexible than a consumer DVD player... I'd go with the PC on this one... I doubt you will find too many DVD players that will allow you to skip the warnings... heck, even on the PC, you have to get hacked software to do it...
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
These guys supply premodded DVD players, I bought my Panasonic from here last Christmas. Apart from the long delivery time, they were perfect.
Mine has the fastforwarding through trailers/warnings, region free, and is demacrovisioned.
They also have the option that (if you're a bit scared of soldiering inside your new £400 gadget like me) you can send them your DVD player and they'll chip it for you, of course if they screw up they pay for it (when I bought mine at least, may have changed now).
Some sony players can be flased with a modified firmware that disables region coding and the UOPs.
Here is a page with a patch for the firmware of the Sony DVP-S7000 DVD Player.
Jan
I'd tell you, but then the DMCA would require me to kill you.
Of course, I have had my player about 2 years at least.
Here
The above post is an editorial, the poster cannot and will not be held responsible for all or in part for it's contents
Go here: Videolan Client.
:-) format videos, and is just, in general, a great moving-video playback device.
Works under MacOS X, Windows, and Linux. Does DeCSS automagically. Somehow always starts playing the movie immediately, skipping over the annoying FBI commercials and lame pre-movie commercials.
Does subtitling, plays flawlessly under Linux, is GPL, plays DivX
As another poster pointed out, hardware players are a crapshoot, but VLC is just about guaranteed.
fifth sigma, inc.
The DVDCCA license states that for region-coded disks, there must be one track that cannot be skipped. Most DVD publishers use that track for "required" legal verbage. Some place this chapter at the end of a movie, and use it to display the DVD authoring houses information. Some, like Disney, used it for advertising, and got quite a PR backlash for it. Newer Disney DVD's still have the ads, but have it as a seperate chapter so that you can skip them.
That information about which track is which is stored as a script file on the DVD. The players simply read and execute that script.
While it would be possible to do something like that (code something to skip required tracks), that same hack would break several of the fancier menu systems (Harry Potter extended DVD, etc.)
Just remember that changes always have consequences you may not be aware of. (The tester's motto)
RomSteady - I came, I saw, I tested. GamerTag: RomSteady / http://www.romsteady.net
....is a site that has lots of players
----- One piece short of Legoland
Just go to the chapter menu and start watching from Chapter 1. The FBI warning's usually fixed between the main menu's play option and the first chapter. Skipping direct to the chapter usually skips the warning.
Oh, yes, I am sure that Disney spent the millions of dollars for the betterment of all humankind, without any thought for the hundreds of millions they'd make from selling the DVD...
The issue isn't really the FBI warning (though I don't like being lectured every time I play a DVD). The point is, Disney and some others put commercials on that track. I wasn't intending to buy a commercial and I shouldn't be forced to watch it.
"Ah-hah!" say the rabid free marketeers. "Disney spent that money on the expectation that you would watch the commercial. Without the added economic benefit of that commercial, they would have had to raise the price to meet the economic expectation of profit. As it is, they count that 'forced eyeball' time as part of the profit, meaning they can sell it for less cash."
Bull dinky. If that's the case, then the commercial is also a cost (to me) and should be disclosed on the box, before I pay for the thing. Otherwise, it's fraud. In other words, there's a difference between "costs $20" and "costs $20 and two minutes of forced commercial viewing". My time is valuable, at least to me, and I shouldn't be bilked out of it.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
It's been discontinued for a bit, but Philips' DVD825/DVD825AT gladly allow you to fire up fast forward to skip through "remote lockout" content.
On the plus side, many of their other DVD players offer the same functionality. If there's a major company out there that's friendlier than most to consumers, it's Philips.
Wow. I feel spoiled. I haven't seen an FBI warning for so long because the only movies I watch are on DVD using ogle. Come to think of it, I don't really miss those warnings ...
It's the fact that hardware I *bought* and the DVD I *bought* artificially limits my ability to use the media as designed. And against my will.
Okay, maybe some warnings are 12 seconds, but how long do you think it will be before there are more trailers and even must-watch commercials on DVDs? I've seen commercials on VHS, why not DVD? (Trailers ARE commercials, anyway.)
I like DVD's ability to pause, skip and jump in a random-access fashion (or I should say on-demand fashion).
Two things I HATE and am getting more and more irritated by daily:
1: Services that I pay for are forcing advertising upon me and/or harvesting my "consumer information" and using it against my desires (email spam, junk mail, telemarketing, etc..). Services include telephone service, internet service, cable TV, my grocery store and my credit cards. (For years I refused to get a store card, but now I moved and the only two close grocery stores have store cards; it's pay up, drive far or give in, and I gave in, put I'm pissed off about it and will switch in a second if something better comes by.) I understand some products and services (such as low cost ISP's , adware and broadcast TV) use these tactics to offer a lower-priced option to the consumer. If there's another reasonably-priced option and the terms are disclosed I'm okay with that. I've always paid more than the minimum for my ISP.
2: Products I legitimately buy intrusively warn me, nag me or inconvenience me with things like legal warnings and anti-piracy measures such as CD keys and copy protection. Frankly it's easier to install free (legitimately) or pirated software than it is to find *my* CD key whenever I reinstall.
Books don't have legal warnings beyond the copyright date. Print art has no warnings on it. My furniture and appliances don't warn me that I'll be sued if I use their design to build copies and sell them. Vinyl records didn't have warnings. Cassette tape (prerecorded or blank) didn't have warnings. My CD-R, CD-RW, VHS, VHS-C, 8mm, Betamax, DAT, TR-1, QIC-80, SanDisk, floppy disk and hard disk media didn't come with warnings. The movies in the theater have no warnings. By video and system BIOS don't have warnings. Why do VHS, DVD and software require intrusive and inconvenient warnings?
All of these work on some discs, but not all discs. Your results may vary, but they've all worked for me on various DVDs.
1. Hit stop twice and then hit play. This may bring you to the beginning of the movie.
2. Some "protected" sequences only protect against "fast forward" or "skip forward" but not both. Try both, and both menu buttons.
3. Some DVD players allow you to skip directly to the title and chapter of your choice. My Toshiba does.
4. Some DVD players allow you to disable the menus entirely (PBC off.) Again, my Toshiba does, and many HK players do too. Look in the config menu.
Hope these help.
I purchased an Apex AD-703 a little over a year ago and it was the best (and most lucky) purchase I've ever made.
What puts Apex above the rest is the ability to flash update the BIOS of the player. There are
many,
many resources for hacking the Apex BIOS. This includes a great utility that's been developed called
EZ Patch which allows users to create custom BIOS images for their APEX players. Among the many modules for EX Patch is the ability to make the player region free and the ability to bypass the "locks" on DVDs that keep a user from skipping over the previews and other such items.
The Sampo 631CF is easily made region-free and macrovision/GCMS-free. The problem you mention about navigating past or skipping the warnings etc. is generally called UOP for User OPerations. The Sampo can be easily patched to allow full user navigation control even when the dvd requests a UOP lock.
Plus, the Sampo has many other great features such as the ability to play PAL and NTSC discs to EITHER a PAL or NTSC TV. It can play CDs full of MP3 or jpegs. In fact you can even easily hook up a spare hard disk to store and play your entire CD collection (as MP3s or WAVs). Or just put your jpeg pr0n collection on it. And it even has a compact flash slot on the front so you can pop in your latest photos or MP3s without having to burn a CD. You can also easily replace the default background screens as well.
If you can burn a CDR, then you can hack the Sampo. The Sampo has a small but growing and enthusiastic user group. Everything you need can be found at, or linked from, area450.
Well my DVD player is the Xbox, and every so often it gives me a BSOD. This can get really annoying because it makes me watch the FBI warning over and over again. Most of the time all I get to see is the FBI warning. On most windows applications I tend to work as fast as I can saving every 5-10 seconds so that I can get somewhere, but not being able to bypass the FBI warning makes watching DVDs a real drag on a windowz box.
I called the tech support guy, but all he said was to format and reinstall windows, but my Xbox didn't come with a recovery CD so I don't know what to do. Any help would be hot.
Gnuyen
those 10 seconds of fbi warnings are so costly aren't they.
...And just as necessary. Do we *really* need
a reminder, every time we watch a movie, about
all the rights we lack with respect to it?
I think we all understand the idea fairly
well...
How many audio CDs do you have that start each track with "Federal law provides severe penalties..." and won't let you FF through it? Zero? That about sums up *my* count, and yet, I *still* understand that copying CDs to give to all my friends breaks the law. Freaky, eh?
Honestly, though, the FBI warnings don't bother me so much as the damned ads. If I *buy* a movie, why do I have ads on it? Presumeably ads justify our "free" TV reception, so how do they belong on a DVD I purchase? *That* really pisses me off, and I would not even *consider* owning a player that honors a button lockout, forcing me to watch them.
besides there really isn't any "better" way to access content on a dvd.
Yes, actually, better ways *do* exist, which seems to me like exactly what the original poster here requested. I've seen a few comments on players that ignore software button lockouts, ways to rip-and-reburn DVDs to get right to the point, ways to just do it all in software with a DVI-out video card, and a host of other ideas. So yes, "better" ways *do* exist.
Personally, I back-up all my DVDs to MPEG4 (WITHOUT including the FBI warning and ads), then lose them in a drawer somewhere (the same drawer as my obsolete-physical-audio-CD collection, incidentally). They look better on my monitor than my TV anyway, and I have a million choices of players with more features than I could ever use. And, if I want to just watch one scene of a movie, I don't have to actually figure out where I left the disc, if I've loaned it to a friend, if the dog ate it, whatever. I have it on my file server, just waiting for me to watch it at the touch of a button. I pop it open, move the slider to the scene I want, and I've found and finished watching the scene I want in less time than I could have gotten the actual movie playing in a physical player.
Oh, very helpful!
The "Ask Slashdot" topic question was asking what DVD players let you skip the FBI warnings & stuff, and the answer you gave was "mine."
Could you at least include your address, so he can go watch movies at your house?
Honestly, the things that get modded up as "Informative" these days...
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
I purchased a Daewoo 5800 from Sam's Club for a whopping $89! Then I went to Nerd-out.com to get the iso file necessary to make it both Region Free and turn off Macrovision. It does indeed turn off Macrovision, but I haven't tested the Region Free. For what it's worth, some DVDs reject Region Free players, but this one doesn't allow that. Some other benefits: -A very nice mp3 player screen -Component and composit outputs -Coaxial digital out -Nice silver finish despite its cheap price Now, some people sell them on Ebay, after doubling the price, but really it is easy. The only negative on this player is the remote doesn't work unless it is aimed directly at the player. A simple fix is a good learning remote.
I've had my Apex for about three years now, still works just fine. It (model 600) uses a standard computer DVD drive, so if that ever breaks I'll just swap it out. I did open it up and put heat sink grease between the sinks and the two chips that run hot, and added a small CPU fan in there to help keep things cooler. Nothing your average slashdotter couldn't do.
-- Alastair
I have no idea what UOP stands for (User Operation Permittance? ). In any case, I think the latest hacked Sampo DVD Player firmware (also useable in most of the Apex models) includes a UOP hack. I'm running it on my Apex 660 and can skip directly to the main menu while the FBI warning (or all those friggin ads on the Disney discs) is up. It's WONDERFUL.
And of course, you can disable macrovision, play MP3s (with a much better menu than the original Apex firmware), display JPG images, hook up a hard drive or compact flash unit, play discs from any region, etc. Check out the Nerd-Out forums HERE!
I just picked up a Malata DVP-520. Great player. It is region free and you can set a region for the new discs that check. It does the best PAL to NTSC conversion of any player even close to its price ($250ish). A major feature of the PAL conversion is that it keeps the correct aspect ratio. It lets you zoom, stretch, pan, etc everything. It also plays MP3s, VCDs, and SVCDs.
I love it. Oh yeah, it's progressive scan too.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have a Sampo DVE611 - it's cheap and a fairly decent player. It's region-free (you can set the region). You can't fast-forward over the legal boilerplate, but you can hit 'next' to advance straight to the 'root' menu. Also handles MP3, VCD, and SVCD. It's got video, S-Video, and three plug (component?) output. It also has a screen saver (bouncing logo). Got it mail-order from 'Barrel of Monkeys'.
[Insert pithy quote here]
I've always just made up some crap to write on the card (not my real name or address--are you kidding?) and they've given me the card no problem. I told them flat out that the info I was giving them was false and they didn't care. They're store clerks who work for a living and they don't like the corporate idiots trying to collect this personal info any more than you or I do.
Actually, forcing you to watch trailers is an abuse of the must watch bit, which was supposed to be limited to the FBI notice. However, you put the ability in there, and the next thing ya know, some marketdroid exec decides that it should be set on ALL of the promo material before the movie...
The JVC XV-S500BK and XV-S502SL (they're the same player, but the 500BK is black and the 502SL is silver) will let you skip non-skippable areas. As a bonus, it also plays VCD, SVCD and MP3. It will display JPEG's on a CD, but very slowly. It will supposedly play PAL discs on NTSC televisions, but I haven't gotten around to testing this yet. There isn't yet a regionless hack for it. But my fingers are crossed. You can pick it up for ~$180 at any retail shop. Sometimes online for less.
So it handles the skip to the "important scene," but does it also handle the multi-angle aspect in case you want to see her from a different one? ;)
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Just swap cards with your friends once in a while. That happens at cypherpunk meetings. Everyone throws their card in a hat, then the cards get stirred around in the hat, then everyone takes out a card.
I just yesterday finished with the same problem.
Here is a post I made about this
I have bought a new DVD-Player which
has all the features I need. The Grundig GDV130 (a TYT / Scan2000 Clone).
Read about it here:
German
English
My personal experience with flashing that player: (only in german) here
There is a forum on Yahoo-Groups for the Scan2000/TYT Clones here. You need the latest Firmware and a tool called GSK2 from the files Section.
With that tool you can make the Firmware Macrovision free AND Turn of User Prohibition.
So now you can switch off subtitles which you sometimes aren't allowed, you can go directly to the Title-Menu. It's really neat.
My new Grundig GDV130 DVD Player now has these cool features:
- Regionfree (Remote-Control Code)
- Macrovision Free (thru the new Firmware)
- No User Prohibitions (I can now switch of those subtitles, or go directly
to the title-menu without watching those nasty copyright notices)
- Good SVCD/VCD Playback
- CVD (China VCD Subtitles) with SVCD
Cheers
-- MicAttAck
Religon is an insult to human dignity.
They have been online for several years to my knowledge, and the site seems regularly updated.
They do their own mods, which instead of changing regions on the fly, allows you to select the region with a single keypress. This means that they tend to be slightly more pricey than a vanilla system.
They also do macrovision disabled (a technology which prohibits use in home projection systems) and they do FBI warning disabled (the point of the original question).
Codefreedvd is the site, using Google gets you exactly what you want, for example this 300 dvd sony (for UK power supply). They do ship around the world, you'll have to search for your own specs.
Murky
A wannabe geek with no money to geek with.
Unfortunately, I have a player which obeys the commands of my discs without fail. Pop in a Disney movie (the worst of the lot) and you can't even press "stop." The only way to stop a Disney ad is to "eject" the disc from the player.
Although I don't like the FBI warnings (why not put them at the end, like VHS?) the ads are awful. You _can_ get 10+ minues worth on Disney discs. Luckily, the movies are short and I do intend on re-burning them before my daughter is old enough to watch. No sense in making her sit through the extra ads.
Copyright IP was explained to me when I was a freshman in college, many years ago, like a book. You buy your original. You can make as many backups as you like. You can have them anywhere you like. You can loan them out. BUT - like your physical book, it may only be used in one place at a time.
If I had a book with 50 pages of ads in the front, I'm allowed to rip them out and throw them away. I can rip out the title page, or blacken the copyright notice. It doesn't change what I'm allowed to do, but I don't have to look at it.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I am baffled by the DVD complaints on slashdot.
/dev/kids. . . get the point?. It really is that simple - and that difficult.
(Before you claim I'm a studio exec - you should know that I'm a [Li|U]nix SA in a different industry)
Do people really think that if you pay a measly 18 bucks for a DVD that you own the unlimited usage rights to a $50million movie? You don't, you only own the right to look at it in a really limited way (hence the discount).
Do you know why they include all the forced-usage and adverts on the DVD? BECAUSE YOU STILL BUY IT. Do you remember how much movies used to cost before DVD? A LOT MORE THAN THEY DO NOW. Why? The advertisements you say you don't want but buy anyway. When you buy a DVD folks, you enter into a bad, limited deal. Enter into a deal, live with the deal. (remember Micro$oft?)
Let me recap:
1) The ads serve to make buying the movies cheap enough that you can rewatch them over and over to save from reading books or spending time with your kids.
2) You oppose the ads and the format but lack any real willpower to NOT make this complete leisure purchase.
3) Because of #1 and #2 you are in a really tough spot because you are too cheap and/or lazy to really do anything but whine.
4) The MPAA execs can't hear your whining over the din of your living-room TV and the constant clanging of the Blockbuster cash-registers.
Translation: Until you make the tough decisions to live without constant video-entertainment the MPAA is a 10t more l33t than you and 0wns your fr33 t1me, d011ars, and your
[This space intentionally left burning]
Thanks for a teriffic reply! Saved me a lot of trouble writing pretty much the same things.
Just for the record though, I've purchased several DVD players in the last few years, and maybe 15 or so DVD movies. I usually just borrow or rent them.
While it's very disturbing and unfortunate that the motion picture industry has decided to make all these efforts to restrict what we can/can't legally do with a DVD, I don't think that means I'm being a hypocrite for continuing to buy the products while complaining.
I think the technology itself is sound, and stands on its own merits. Simply saying "I don't like the FBI warnings or the trailers, so I'm going to refuse to ever buy a DVD player or disc!" only helps kill off a perfectly good technology. (Does Hollywood really know that people aren't buying DVD because they're upset about those restrictions and trailers/warnings? I suspect, instead, they'd simply conclude that DVD technology wasn't offering enough value for consumers to keep purchasing the format. That would leave us with less ability to buy/rent/view movies at home in higher-resolutions.)
It seems better to me to continue to buy the products we like and want to use. Then, pinpoint the issues we have with them and complain, complain, complain! It may or may not fall on deaf ears, but at least they can't say they never understood the problem.