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Consumer Friendly (or Disney Hostile) DVD Players?
solli asks: "After 13 years of relatively faithful service my Mitsubishi(!) VCR has finally kicked the bucket, and I am now thinking of moving on to DVDs. One of the only things preventing me from buying a DVD is the fact that some media companies like to make you watch FBI warnings, trailers, and ads before allowing you to view the actual movie (like Disney's Tarzan). Of course, there is such a large demand for region free players and other specialized needs that niche markets have developed to fill that demand. However, I have seen nothing about players that give you the freedom to navigate through the disk the way you want to, instead of how the content producer wants you to. What DVD players exist that let the viewer take full advantage of the nonlinear properties of the DVD media? Can any of the available players ignore the directives embedded on-disk to disable certain controls at particular times?"
You can always try picking up one of the old APex AD 600 Players. Macrovision disabled, Region free.
god i remember the good ol days of flipbooks.....all you had to do was open to the desired page, and start the movie from there.......no ads, no feds, no nothin......course, there was no sound either, but the movies didn't really need it then anyways.
Some software players, particularly non-commerical ones like IFOEDIT, or some of the open-source players that have appeared, let you toggle ignoring the bits that prohibit user operations (like FF/skip) at places like the FBI warning. Yeah, it's a slight hassle having to hook your PC up to a TV, but I don't know of any standalone units that have this feature.
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Exactly how lazy are you that you cant wait an additional 12 seconds for the FBI warnings to scroll by? Use that valuable time to pick your nose I say.
I hate to say it, but a PC is a lot more flexible than a consumer DVD player... I'd go with the PC on this one... I doubt you will find too many DVD players that will allow you to skip the warnings... heck, even on the PC, you have to get hacked software to do it...
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
These guys supply premodded DVD players, I bought my Panasonic from here last Christmas. Apart from the long delivery time, they were perfect.
Mine has the fastforwarding through trailers/warnings, region free, and is demacrovisioned.
They also have the option that (if you're a bit scared of soldiering inside your new £400 gadget like me) you can send them your DVD player and they'll chip it for you, of course if they screw up they pay for it (when I bought mine at least, may have changed now).
While this may not be a standalone DVD player {though with the remote it's pretty close.
.. can also select different soundtracks and such.
But the ATI DVD player lets you go to a particular track without messing with the currently playing video.
Seems organized by track and index -- those two sets of numbers on most DVD players
For those times when the DVD authoring shop chose to lock soundtracks into those selected at the menu. -My Sony DVP-530A does this sometimes-
Some sony players can be flased with a modified firmware that disables region coding and the UOPs.
Here is a page with a patch for the firmware of the Sony DVP-S7000 DVD Player.
Jan
I'd tell you, but then the DMCA would require me to kill you.
Of course, I have had my player about 2 years at least.
Here
The above post is an editorial, the poster cannot and will not be held responsible for all or in part for it's contents
Look, the "content producer" spent millions upon millions of dollars so that you can enjoy their content in your home for cheap.
No, they *earned* millions upon millions, because I (and thousands or millions of others) paid for the DVD. IF they start giving away DVDs, then I'll live with the restrictions. I don't go to a bank that gives me a lecture about not robbing them each time I go in, why should I repeatedly view an FBI warning?
Heck, I wanted to freeze the starting menu to see some detail on a DVD I was watching last night, but my Apex wouldn't do it for that section. How the frell is that doing anything for the media company, anyway?
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Go here: Videolan Client.
:-) format videos, and is just, in general, a great moving-video playback device.
Works under MacOS X, Windows, and Linux. Does DeCSS automagically. Somehow always starts playing the movie immediately, skipping over the annoying FBI commercials and lame pre-movie commercials.
Does subtitling, plays flawlessly under Linux, is GPL, plays DivX
As another poster pointed out, hardware players are a crapshoot, but VLC is just about guaranteed.
fifth sigma, inc.
The DVDCCA license states that for region-coded disks, there must be one track that cannot be skipped. Most DVD publishers use that track for "required" legal verbage. Some place this chapter at the end of a movie, and use it to display the DVD authoring houses information. Some, like Disney, used it for advertising, and got quite a PR backlash for it. Newer Disney DVD's still have the ads, but have it as a seperate chapter so that you can skip them.
That information about which track is which is stored as a script file on the DVD. The players simply read and execute that script.
While it would be possible to do something like that (code something to skip required tracks), that same hack would break several of the fancier menu systems (Harry Potter extended DVD, etc.)
Just remember that changes always have consequences you may not be aware of. (The tester's motto)
RomSteady - I came, I saw, I tested. GamerTag: RomSteady / http://www.romsteady.net
....is a site that has lots of players
----- One piece short of Legoland
Most of the low end DVD players are based on Zoran's chipset. WHile they have a few variations they seem to be pretty much the same.
Some can easily be changed to ignore region codes, or set to specific regions. Most support playing MP3s and atleast mine, always lets me skip a chapter.
While I can't fast forward past the FBI warnings I can hit the end of chapter button and skip it that way. Generally this gets me right the the credits...
Just go to the chapter menu and start watching from Chapter 1. The FBI warning's usually fixed between the main menu's play option and the first chapter. Skipping direct to the chapter usually skips the warning.
You assume it is always 30 seconds. Supposedly a few DVDs force you to watch trailers before the movie starts.
"It won't hurt you to have to wait 30 seconds. If you have your schedule so tight that you can't even spend an extra 30 seconds, then you should force yourself to sit down and waste some time. You need it :)"
30 seconds for an FBI warning isn't the problem. Loading up a DVD with commercials for other DVD's in such a way you can't skip them is.
I have one, my sister has one, my neighbors bought one after I told them about it (they were also looking for one).
There is firmware available to make it Macrovision Free, Region Free, and RCE Immune(sp).
I did it to all three players, no problem.
Best part? They all work very well, and are dirt cheap ($60-80).
http://www.angryburrito.com/ The best, completely unfinished software review site ever.
Oh, yes, I am sure that Disney spent the millions of dollars for the betterment of all humankind, without any thought for the hundreds of millions they'd make from selling the DVD...
The issue isn't really the FBI warning (though I don't like being lectured every time I play a DVD). The point is, Disney and some others put commercials on that track. I wasn't intending to buy a commercial and I shouldn't be forced to watch it.
"Ah-hah!" say the rabid free marketeers. "Disney spent that money on the expectation that you would watch the commercial. Without the added economic benefit of that commercial, they would have had to raise the price to meet the economic expectation of profit. As it is, they count that 'forced eyeball' time as part of the profit, meaning they can sell it for less cash."
Bull dinky. If that's the case, then the commercial is also a cost (to me) and should be disclosed on the box, before I pay for the thing. Otherwise, it's fraud. In other words, there's a difference between "costs $20" and "costs $20 and two minutes of forced commercial viewing". My time is valuable, at least to me, and I shouldn't be bilked out of it.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
It's been discontinued for a bit, but Philips' DVD825/DVD825AT gladly allow you to fire up fast forward to skip through "remote lockout" content.
On the plus side, many of their other DVD players offer the same functionality. If there's a major company out there that's friendlier than most to consumers, it's Philips.
Wow. I feel spoiled. I haven't seen an FBI warning for so long because the only movies I watch are on DVD using ogle. Come to think of it, I don't really miss those warnings ...
the fair use right to use a product you purchased in a manner that is satifactory to you, and does not provide soemone elses IP for free. There is nothing wrong with this request, next thing they will do away with is the ability to time shift..after all DIGITAL is different, the lobbyists have convinced the asshats in office that it is...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
You can get a cheap HTPC (home theater PC) setup if you have a vid card with TV out and a software DVD player that can disable Macrovision and region encoding, but the quality is not up there. Personally, I'd recommend getting a Realmagic Xcard with remote from (www.sigmadesigns.com). It's a hardware MPEG-1/-2/-4 decoder, and it has S-video and digital coaxial sound output, and it comes with a S-video to component cable to free up an S-video input on your TV. I'd couple this with a nifty tool called Remote Selector (www.remoteselector.com) which makes the Xcard and other hardware DVD decoders region free, macrovision free, and disables user prohibition (I.E. skipping FBI warnings and studio intros).
...and I regularly piss with great force on your DMCA!
You're using her as bait, Master!
It's the fact that hardware I *bought* and the DVD I *bought* artificially limits my ability to use the media as designed. And against my will.
Okay, maybe some warnings are 12 seconds, but how long do you think it will be before there are more trailers and even must-watch commercials on DVDs? I've seen commercials on VHS, why not DVD? (Trailers ARE commercials, anyway.)
I like DVD's ability to pause, skip and jump in a random-access fashion (or I should say on-demand fashion).
Two things I HATE and am getting more and more irritated by daily:
1: Services that I pay for are forcing advertising upon me and/or harvesting my "consumer information" and using it against my desires (email spam, junk mail, telemarketing, etc..). Services include telephone service, internet service, cable TV, my grocery store and my credit cards. (For years I refused to get a store card, but now I moved and the only two close grocery stores have store cards; it's pay up, drive far or give in, and I gave in, put I'm pissed off about it and will switch in a second if something better comes by.) I understand some products and services (such as low cost ISP's , adware and broadcast TV) use these tactics to offer a lower-priced option to the consumer. If there's another reasonably-priced option and the terms are disclosed I'm okay with that. I've always paid more than the minimum for my ISP.
2: Products I legitimately buy intrusively warn me, nag me or inconvenience me with things like legal warnings and anti-piracy measures such as CD keys and copy protection. Frankly it's easier to install free (legitimately) or pirated software than it is to find *my* CD key whenever I reinstall.
Books don't have legal warnings beyond the copyright date. Print art has no warnings on it. My furniture and appliances don't warn me that I'll be sued if I use their design to build copies and sell them. Vinyl records didn't have warnings. Cassette tape (prerecorded or blank) didn't have warnings. My CD-R, CD-RW, VHS, VHS-C, 8mm, Betamax, DAT, TR-1, QIC-80, SanDisk, floppy disk and hard disk media didn't come with warnings. The movies in the theater have no warnings. By video and system BIOS don't have warnings. Why do VHS, DVD and software require intrusive and inconvenient warnings?
Illegal, shmillegal.
/me cuts "The Tag" off his mattress to make his point. :-)
If I paid money for the DVD player, I will paint it, mod it, piss on it, or do whatever else I feel like with it (within reason). It's my property.
~Philly
All of these work on some discs, but not all discs. Your results may vary, but they've all worked for me on various DVDs.
1. Hit stop twice and then hit play. This may bring you to the beginning of the movie.
2. Some "protected" sequences only protect against "fast forward" or "skip forward" but not both. Try both, and both menu buttons.
3. Some DVD players allow you to skip directly to the title and chapter of your choice. My Toshiba does.
4. Some DVD players allow you to disable the menus entirely (PBC off.) Again, my Toshiba does, and many HK players do too. Look in the config menu.
Hope these help.
I purchased an Apex AD-703 a little over a year ago and it was the best (and most lucky) purchase I've ever made.
What puts Apex above the rest is the ability to flash update the BIOS of the player. There are
many,
many resources for hacking the Apex BIOS. This includes a great utility that's been developed called
EZ Patch which allows users to create custom BIOS images for their APEX players. Among the many modules for EX Patch is the ability to make the player region free and the ability to bypass the "locks" on DVDs that keep a user from skipping over the previews and other such items.
The Sampo 631CF is easily made region-free and macrovision/GCMS-free. The problem you mention about navigating past or skipping the warnings etc. is generally called UOP for User OPerations. The Sampo can be easily patched to allow full user navigation control even when the dvd requests a UOP lock.
Plus, the Sampo has many other great features such as the ability to play PAL and NTSC discs to EITHER a PAL or NTSC TV. It can play CDs full of MP3 or jpegs. In fact you can even easily hook up a spare hard disk to store and play your entire CD collection (as MP3s or WAVs). Or just put your jpeg pr0n collection on it. And it even has a compact flash slot on the front so you can pop in your latest photos or MP3s without having to burn a CD. You can also easily replace the default background screens as well.
If you can burn a CDR, then you can hack the Sampo. The Sampo has a small but growing and enthusiastic user group. Everything you need can be found at, or linked from, area450.
Well my DVD player is the Xbox, and every so often it gives me a BSOD. This can get really annoying because it makes me watch the FBI warning over and over again. Most of the time all I get to see is the FBI warning. On most windows applications I tend to work as fast as I can saving every 5-10 seconds so that I can get somewhere, but not being able to bypass the FBI warning makes watching DVDs a real drag on a windowz box.
I called the tech support guy, but all he said was to format and reinstall windows, but my Xbox didn't come with a recovery CD so I don't know what to do. Any help would be hot.
Gnuyen
Everyone I know who's owned one has had it fall apart on them after a year or so. Stay far away from Apex players, if you know what's good for you.
They're cheap, cheap pieces of crap.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
I see it as a reminder that, sometimes, anonymous cowards are just that cowards. This guy can't summon up the courage to post his poisonous views under his own name.
those 10 seconds of fbi warnings are so costly aren't they.
...And just as necessary. Do we *really* need
a reminder, every time we watch a movie, about
all the rights we lack with respect to it?
I think we all understand the idea fairly
well...
How many audio CDs do you have that start each track with "Federal law provides severe penalties..." and won't let you FF through it? Zero? That about sums up *my* count, and yet, I *still* understand that copying CDs to give to all my friends breaks the law. Freaky, eh?
Honestly, though, the FBI warnings don't bother me so much as the damned ads. If I *buy* a movie, why do I have ads on it? Presumeably ads justify our "free" TV reception, so how do they belong on a DVD I purchase? *That* really pisses me off, and I would not even *consider* owning a player that honors a button lockout, forcing me to watch them.
besides there really isn't any "better" way to access content on a dvd.
Yes, actually, better ways *do* exist, which seems to me like exactly what the original poster here requested. I've seen a few comments on players that ignore software button lockouts, ways to rip-and-reburn DVDs to get right to the point, ways to just do it all in software with a DVI-out video card, and a host of other ideas. So yes, "better" ways *do* exist.
Personally, I back-up all my DVDs to MPEG4 (WITHOUT including the FBI warning and ads), then lose them in a drawer somewhere (the same drawer as my obsolete-physical-audio-CD collection, incidentally). They look better on my monitor than my TV anyway, and I have a million choices of players with more features than I could ever use. And, if I want to just watch one scene of a movie, I don't have to actually figure out where I left the disc, if I've loaned it to a friend, if the dog ate it, whatever. I have it on my file server, just waiting for me to watch it at the touch of a button. I pop it open, move the slider to the scene I want, and I've found and finished watching the scene I want in less time than I could have gotten the actual movie playing in a physical player.
"...let you navigate scene by scene"
Yea, but so do all VCRs. And most movies worth watching are only on VHS - go to any decent (i.e. small, privately-owned) video store and 3/4ths or more of thier stock will be in VHS. The tapes are butt-ugly, I hate them, but it's still like the early days of the CD when if you wanted to listen to anything less-than-mainstream you still needed your trusty record player.
My vote, replace the VCR, and buy a DVD if you have the spare cash.
closed minded is as closed minded does
Why do you have such a problem with people wanting to skip the bullshit?
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
1- You *did* see the ":-)" at the end of that line, right?
2- I am NOT a "consumer," God damn it, I am a *human being* and an *American citizen*! Oh, and a taxpayer, though my money is not as green as that of the big corporations. But that's another thread.
~Philly
When I was a little kid these tags definitely did not include the phrase "except by the consumer" and I remember being puzzled enough to ask my parents how such a prohibition could be valid! The all-important qualification must have been added sometime in the last few decades, so I imagine many Slashdotters still remember the old tag.
Oh, very helpful!
The "Ask Slashdot" topic question was asking what DVD players let you skip the FBI warnings & stuff, and the answer you gave was "mine."
Could you at least include your address, so he can go watch movies at your house?
Honestly, the things that get modded up as "Informative" these days...
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Wow, it sounds like you really have a need to justify your Apex purchase. I really don't get how you surmised that the prior poster was "16" because they stated that APEX players have questionable quality: Sounds like a fair statement to me (though I am not substantiating it: I know no one with an APEX).
Regarding your ridiculous pro-Apex claims, I have a 4 year old Pioneer deck that plays VCDs, and has no problem with CD-Rs or CD-RWs. Virtually any desk sold in the past year plays MP3s. I have never, ever had the need to play a non-region 1 DVD (I'm not really a fan of Japanimation : It all seems a tad too pedophilic), so I really don't see the value there. My upcoming purchase of a replacement will be a Toshiba progressive scan player with every feature (including Windows Media playback, though I know that that feature won't go over well on Slashdot) for ~$168 US : I really don't see the value in going with a hack shop.
That would be reasonable if the author was asking for it to IGNORE the segments marked as "MUST PLAY," but in this case it's a matter of ignore the ignore FF button and chapter skip code.
:)
In that case, you have an end human sitting there making the final decision. Want to watch the FBI intro? All works as normal. Doesn't want to watch it? Skip it. Chances are they'll leave the Harry Potter intro alone, as it's what they paid to watch. I don't pay the FBI anything, as a Canadian citizen, so I don't really care to see their warnings
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I purchased a Daewoo 5800 from Sam's Club for a whopping $89! Then I went to Nerd-out.com to get the iso file necessary to make it both Region Free and turn off Macrovision. It does indeed turn off Macrovision, but I haven't tested the Region Free. For what it's worth, some DVDs reject Region Free players, but this one doesn't allow that. Some other benefits: -A very nice mp3 player screen -Component and composit outputs -Coaxial digital out -Nice silver finish despite its cheap price Now, some people sell them on Ebay, after doubling the price, but really it is easy. The only negative on this player is the remote doesn't work unless it is aimed directly at the player. A simple fix is a good learning remote.
I've had my Apex for about three years now, still works just fine. It (model 600) uses a standard computer DVD drive, so if that ever breaks I'll just swap it out. I did open it up and put heat sink grease between the sinks and the two chips that run hot, and added a small CPU fan in there to help keep things cooler. Nothing your average slashdotter couldn't do.
-- Alastair
- 11 CFR 100.7(b)(2)
- 11 CFR 100.8(b)(2)
- 2 USC 431(9)(B)(i)
Wouldn't it be great if your favorite media company encoded the "required" track of a DVD with political propaganda? That way, we could pay for a strict 2 party system all the while being exempt from campaign finance laws!You can try some of the pro level DVD players. ... blah)
Pioneer makes an industrial DVD-player DVD-V7400 that sells for about $800-900.
It's badass in all the ways that it's almost wrong to have that much control and robustness.
It plays back both NTSC and PAL disks (region 1 only
Has PS/2 port so you can used keyboard/ mouse for player control.
RS-232C terminal connection for deck control. (yeah hook it up to your computer, write a control program, forget just skipping the fbi warnings. Watch movies in a totally different way.)
Video black board support, with mouse connected, so you can draw on your movies.
It has S video, YC component, coaxial Digital and Composit BNC or RCA out.
Touch screen support.
Hell, it even tracks and stores user selections!
We have a few of them at work, I've never used any player that badass before, I'm thinking about buying one soon for an video installation project, where I am hoping to write a program that will do some fun random access video playback through deck control.
But then again all that just to skip 12 seconds of FBI warning is a little bit on the over kill side, but you asked, and here's an option.
I have no idea what UOP stands for (User Operation Permittance? ). In any case, I think the latest hacked Sampo DVD Player firmware (also useable in most of the Apex models) includes a UOP hack. I'm running it on my Apex 660 and can skip directly to the main menu while the FBI warning (or all those friggin ads on the Disney discs) is up. It's WONDERFUL.
And of course, you can disable macrovision, play MP3s (with a much better menu than the original Apex firmware), display JPG images, hook up a hard drive or compact flash unit, play discs from any region, etc. Check out the Nerd-Out forums HERE!
I just picked up a Malata DVP-520. Great player. It is region free and you can set a region for the new discs that check. It does the best PAL to NTSC conversion of any player even close to its price ($250ish). A major feature of the PAL conversion is that it keeps the correct aspect ratio. It lets you zoom, stretch, pan, etc everything. It also plays MP3s, VCDs, and SVCDs.
I love it. Oh yeah, it's progressive scan too.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"Why do people have such a problem with relaxing and waiting a few minutes."
Why is this about 'not being able to relax a few minutes'? That's a bit of a stupid assumption, dontch'a think? The problem is that they're bombarding you with 'Buy my crap!' stuff for those 5 minutes.
If you were eating at McDonald's, and I sat down at your table for 5 minutes trying to convince you to buy a watch from me, would your schedule be so loose that you'd be happy to listen to my pitch? Would you be willing to listen to it every time you ate at McDonald's with no way to get around me?
No. I doubt you'd last 30 seconds. Which is silly really, I mean why not relax and do something else while I'm talking? Why can't you spend another 5 minutes at McDonald's so I can show you this great deal on a watch? I mean geeze, even if you were on the clock it wouldn't cost you hardly anything.
>... what the deal is with region coding?
Other way round - it protects the distribution monopolies out in the non-US regions. If region coding weren't in place those of us in places like Australia would just order new releases from wherever was cheapest, probably through the web from the US, and local distributors would likely collapse.
With region coding in place, the idea is that we're forced to buy DVD's from local distributors, which are released on their schedule and at their price point.
This isn't new - in about '94/'95 my boss at the time ordered laserdiscs from the US. They were stopped at the border because the discs hadn't come through the official release channels and weren't officially available in NZ. (They were just regular Hollywood movies).
No advocate of free markets would argue that a company's business model should be enforced by government guns. The MPAA and RIAA are rent-seeking corporate welfare recipients, and enemies of capitalism.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
"Services that I pay for are forcing advertising upon me and/or harvesting my "consumer information" and using it against my desires (email spam, junk mail, telemarketing, etc..). Services include telephone service,"
/.ers will jump down my throat for saying it but I'm satisfied with EarthLink so far.
Get a cell phone and either ditch the land line entirely or put a fax machine on it to piss off any telemarketers that do call.
"internet service,"
A little research goes a long way when it comes to picking an ISP. I know about two dozen
"cable TV,"
The problem here is that you still have cable insteed of digital satellite. I don't know about where you live but here DirecTV is cheaper than Cox Cable. And I'm not even talking about digital cable here, just the basics. More channels, less money. Up-front costs? Sure, but nothing that won't pay for itself in a few months with that kind of cost savings...
Plus, you have two added benefits:
1.) You get to tell a state-mandated monopoly to shove their coaxial where the sun don't shine
2.) Gets rid of all those fucking annoying "Please don't switch to satellite!" commercials. The satellite folks don't have an inferiority complex when it comes to their competition...
"my grocery store and my credit cards. (For years I refused to get a store card, but now I moved and the only two close grocery stores have store cards; it's pay up, drive far or give in, and I gave in, put I'm pissed off about it and will switch in a second if something better comes by.)"
If you're talking about store credit cards, cash is always accepted.
If you're talking about "savings" cards, tell the cashier you left yours in your other pants and would they please scan their card for you thankyouvermuch.
check out the Region Codes page over at OpenDVD.org for a fairly good explanation.
I have a Sampo DVE611 - it's cheap and a fairly decent player. It's region-free (you can set the region). You can't fast-forward over the legal boilerplate, but you can hit 'next' to advance straight to the 'root' menu. Also handles MP3, VCD, and SVCD. It's got video, S-Video, and three plug (component?) output. It also has a screen saver (bouncing logo). Got it mail-order from 'Barrel of Monkeys'.
[Insert pithy quote here]
It might sound surprising, but my Onkyo DV-S353 lets me skip right past the warnings and all. I just pop the disc in and hit the menu button as soon as the warning / trailers / other annoying things come on.
Okay, so it is region locked, but you don't have to wait and you get a nice picture and sound without buying too expensive of a player.
(Oh, the bad news is that it doesn't appear to play anything on CDRs, unlike my old Apex.)
The story specifically mentioned Tarzan. I haven't timed it, but it's loaded with several trailers for other Disney movies and for Disney World. I don't mind my kid watching Tarzan, it's a good story. But for them to be bombarded with 5 minutes of advertising every time they want to watch the movie?
We generally consider "trailers" to be sneak peaks to upcoming movies. But the Disney Trailers on the DVD are blatant sales pitches aimed at getting kids to say "Daddy, buy me that movie!" "Buy me this movie!" "I want to go to Disney World and meet Mickey!"
It's taking marketing way too far when you're forced to watch them every time you want to see the movie. What's the point of buying a movie if you're going to be forced to watch advertisements? Might as well tape it off broadcast TV and save $25.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
I've always just made up some crap to write on the card (not my real name or address--are you kidding?) and they've given me the card no problem. I told them flat out that the info I was giving them was false and they didn't care. They're store clerks who work for a living and they don't like the corporate idiots trying to collect this personal info any more than you or I do.
Actually, forcing you to watch trailers is an abuse of the must watch bit, which was supposed to be limited to the FBI notice. However, you put the ability in there, and the next thing ya know, some marketdroid exec decides that it should be set on ALL of the promo material before the movie...
The JVC XV-S500BK and XV-S502SL (they're the same player, but the 500BK is black and the 502SL is silver) will let you skip non-skippable areas. As a bonus, it also plays VCD, SVCD and MP3. It will display JPEG's on a CD, but very slowly. It will supposedly play PAL discs on NTSC televisions, but I haven't gotten around to testing this yet. There isn't yet a regionless hack for it. But my fingers are crossed. You can pick it up for ~$180 at any retail shop. Sometimes online for less.
<sarcasm>No one's forcing you to watch the ads and FBI warnings. If you're offended by them, just close your eyes or turn your TV off. There are plenty of Americans who believe in advertisements -- why should they be deprived of them just because you're "offended?"</sarcasm>
Well, AFAIK, lot of the DVD players sold in stores in the Chinese community are not region-locked and many of them don't honor the various restriction controls. This is because they want to be able to watch imported videos. And, if you like Karaoke, these stores have plenty of Karaoke-enabled models, too!
I don't mind waiting the 12 seconds... ooh, I'm just burning with anticipation by the seventh or eight second. And when the movie finally arrives, it makes it seem just a little more special.
Unless you're watching Battlefield Earth, and you curse the damned 12 seconds on top of the past 117 minutes which robbed you of meaningful existence. I want those 117 minutes and 12 seconds back!!! ARRRGHHH!
Oh, um, sorry.
But with my Sony, I can get around most of the FBI warnings, "mandatory previews", and other annoying features. Even though you may not be able to hit "next" all of the time, between trying the "title", "next", "menu", and as a last resort, the fast-forward buttons, most of them can be passed up.
Now if they just weren't there at all, now THAT would be nice.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
This is actually what I want to do. I want to hook up a spare box to the TV and use it to play DVDs, DivX, etc., as well as used it as a PVR. I know TV capture cards are supported on Linux, but what about TV out?
BTW, are hardware MPEG encoders supported under Linux? Some TV capture cards have them built in. It would be more efficient to encode the stream on the card since it uses up less PCI bandwidth.
This would be a perfect media box for the living room: DVDs, CDs, mp3s, PRV, etc. all in one.
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Two huge examples of why region-free DVD players are great: the UK only (Region 2) DVD sets of the complete first seasons of Family Guy and Futurama.I N/B00005UWN O
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/AS
Due to syndication issues and other Fox f*ckery, god knows when they might be released in the US.......
Simply not true. There are some free-market advocates who regard intellectual output as property -- I know because they, too, sometimes post here -- and thus would see the actions of the *AA groups as merely attempts to protect their property. And almost all of those advocates would argue that property holders have the right, indeed, the obligation to aggressively protect their property via the courts, and that the government's (perhaps sole) legitimate purpose is to safeguard property and enforce contracts. These are not arguments I'm making up; they're arguments posted in this forum before.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
Well I don't know how to skip the FBI warning... but since y'all are talking up Apex I'd like to say the Sampo players are IMO da bomb. I got a 631CF, which is the first DVD player to also include a CF slot for viewing digital pictures and playing MP3s. There are hacked firmware versions available which enable region-free use. Even with stock firmware, it can convert NTSC to PAL or vice-versa. It's one of the few that can play SVCD format. The power supply works on any typical powerline voltage/frequency. So basically you can play any form of 5" disc video anywhere in the world. And probably the build quality of these players is better than Apex.
I wonder how this hacked firmware is made though. Maybe it'd be possible to modify it so that "mandatory viewing" parts are no longer mandatory.
(I don't work for Sampo BTW)
There's still fast forward, which should work the same regardless :) Another good one is jumping to chapter 1 (movie start) if a person enters that.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
But I still think it should be the end-user's choice.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
My ATI All in WOnder on Linux plugs into my TV..I use Ogle to watch DVD's..works great
If you're not a Liberal in your 20's, then you have no heart.If you're still a Liberal in your 30's you have no brain.
You could try a TYT based player. I use a Scan SC2000. They're pretty good, and (with hacked firmware blown to it) I can press "menu" and skip FBI / Ad / Coming attractions bollocks and go straight to the main menu. Also handy if the menus are swooshy! (like LotR)
Try asking at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Scan2000/
Hope that helps
bowdie
yes, www.dotcomforwardslash.com is my real URL.
So it handles the skip to the "important scene," but does it also handle the multi-angle aspect in case you want to see her from a different one? ;)
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Just swap cards with your friends once in a while. That happens at cypherpunk meetings. Everyone throws their card in a hat, then the cards get stirred around in the hat, then everyone takes out a card.
Scanning/seeking to the end of the offending video chapter would, indeed, work if such functionality were not being locked out. Selecting Chapter 1 would have mixed results. Ideally, most of the time you'd want Title 1, Chapter 1. There are exceptions, of course. I can think of a handful of DVDs featuring branched video (Matrix, Beauty & the Beast Special Edition, and a couple of others) where Title 1 isn't necessarily the feature, or if it is, it would be uncertain which flavour of the feature.
My day gig is QCing DVDs for THX, so I've seen all sorts of odd authoring (and not all of it intentional...)
This sig intentionally left justified.
I just yesterday finished with the same problem.
Here is a post I made about this
I have bought a new DVD-Player which
has all the features I need. The Grundig GDV130 (a TYT / Scan2000 Clone).
Read about it here:
German
English
My personal experience with flashing that player: (only in german) here
There is a forum on Yahoo-Groups for the Scan2000/TYT Clones here. You need the latest Firmware and a tool called GSK2 from the files Section.
With that tool you can make the Firmware Macrovision free AND Turn of User Prohibition.
So now you can switch off subtitles which you sometimes aren't allowed, you can go directly to the Title-Menu. It's really neat.
My new Grundig GDV130 DVD Player now has these cool features:
- Regionfree (Remote-Control Code)
- Macrovision Free (thru the new Firmware)
- No User Prohibitions (I can now switch of those subtitles, or go directly
to the title-menu without watching those nasty copyright notices)
- Good SVCD/VCD Playback
- CVD (China VCD Subtitles) with SVCD
Cheers
-- MicAttAck
Religon is an insult to human dignity.
question.. info everyone should know if they are going to buy a player.
I know that many region hacks also modify the fbi warning and other stuff... so effectively the disc can't keep you from skipping chapters.
How hard would it be to compare your credit card info (which is supposedly much harder to fake) to your store card info, note that its different, and "fix" the store card info?
Can store get your address from your credit card?
I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing. -- Thomas Jefferson
Graf
Thirdly, not everyone has a DVD player. Some people live in a place where they're hard to get.
and where pray tell is that? If they have the internet access to ask the question about purchasing a DVD player, they have the internet access to order a DVD player.
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
They have been online for several years to my knowledge, and the site seems regularly updated.
They do their own mods, which instead of changing regions on the fly, allows you to select the region with a single keypress. This means that they tend to be slightly more pricey than a vanilla system.
They also do macrovision disabled (a technology which prohibits use in home projection systems) and they do FBI warning disabled (the point of the original question).
Codefreedvd is the site, using Google gets you exactly what you want, for example this 300 dvd sony (for UK power supply). They do ship around the world, you'll have to search for your own specs.
Murky
A wannabe geek with no money to geek with.
Unfortunately, I have a player which obeys the commands of my discs without fail. Pop in a Disney movie (the worst of the lot) and you can't even press "stop." The only way to stop a Disney ad is to "eject" the disc from the player.
Although I don't like the FBI warnings (why not put them at the end, like VHS?) the ads are awful. You _can_ get 10+ minues worth on Disney discs. Luckily, the movies are short and I do intend on re-burning them before my daughter is old enough to watch. No sense in making her sit through the extra ads.
Copyright IP was explained to me when I was a freshman in college, many years ago, like a book. You buy your original. You can make as many backups as you like. You can have them anywhere you like. You can loan them out. BUT - like your physical book, it may only be used in one place at a time.
If I had a book with 50 pages of ads in the front, I'm allowed to rip them out and throw them away. I can rip out the title page, or blacken the copyright notice. It doesn't change what I'm allowed to do, but I don't have to look at it.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Ok so it's not the cheapest DVD player around but you get what you pay for (component video out, the best deinterlacer on the market and superb sound). On 99% of my discs I'm able to skip the trailers, FBI warnings etc. Some (I can't recollect which) don't work but there the stop-stop-play trick works. I have no problems with the Disney titles I have (both the Toy Stories). Now I'm not sure if it does that by default or if it is the region patch that makes it work. Regionfree is better tho.
In other words, there's a difference between "costs $20" and "costs $20 and two minutes of forced commercial viewing". My time is valuable
To a hot-shot lawyer, two minutes might be worth MORE than $20 - and someone said that on the Tarzan DVD, it's not two minutes but ten minutes of ads. (I'm not eager to find out for myself...) Wonder if we could get one of these lawyers to sue - e.g., "On this class action suit last year, I got paid the equivalent of $14,000 an hour, or $233 a minute. Therefore for putting a non-skippable ten minute ad without revealing it on the box, Disney owes me $2,333.
The warning reads as follows:
If you are reading this then this warning is for you. Every word you read of this useless fine print is another second off your life. Don't you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? Or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all who claim it? Do you read everything you're supposed to read? Do you think everything you're supposed to think? Buy what you're told you should want? Get out of your apartment. Meet a member of the opposite sex. Stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. Quit your job. Start a fight. Prove you're alive. If you don't claim your humanity you will become a statistic. You have been warned____Tyler.
But why is the rum gone?
Look at the parallels in political alignment and the DVD region map, and ask yourself if limiting what people can watch wasn't also part of someone's marketing-meets-political-posturing plan, too.
I'm sure its my own paranoia, but given that a big chunk of the world still actively tries to censor and limit people's access to information why wouldn't this allow Hollywood to try to please politicians? Release a movie; popular in America, unpopular in a given region of the world; edit the movie to make it acceptable in the non-US region; release the region x version of the movie using this edit. You make money, dictators stay fat and happy, "everybody" wins.
The trouble is, I'd wager that most of the places you'd be likely to find censorship are also the places most likely to be selling bootleg region 1 DVDs and modded players that can play them, or totally bootleg players with region selection menus.
I'm sure that distribution structure argument is the "most" correct, but you can't tell me this hasn't crossed someone's mind in Hollywood before.
"Google is your friend."
how long before Google is sued for providing, (giving results on a 'howto hack dvd regions'-query), ways to circumvent copyrights...
The Awful Truth
In the US, mattresses must be sold with a tag attached to them telling you just how flammable they are and how liable you are to burn to death if you sleep on them. In addition to this information, the tag says "NOT TO BE REMOVED UNDER PENALTY OF LAW, EXCEPT BY THE CONSUMER". In Europe, we just ban the sale of unsafe mattresses.
I bought a GE dvd player a few years ago, and the movie "Scary Movie" takes 30 minutes to get past the FBI warning. So how lazy does that make me when I can't forward, skip, move, scene select, or ANYTHING around that stupid damn FBI Warning?
And no, the store wouldn't take it back either (because it was opened).
I've got an older sis 6326 card with tv-out. MPlayer with framebuffer output works like a charm.
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
I don't see how releasing movies at the same time across the world is going to prove that region coding is a "stupid scheme." Although the companies are generating good will by not having the overseas fans wait for LOTR and SW, those disks are still going to be region-coded so that pricing can be region-specific and imports can be prevented (as explained in a previous post).
I did find it interesting though that it's that much cheaper for you to see a movie in theaters than own it on video. Most of the people I know that have invested in good home equipment are exactly the opposite - they wait for stuff to come out on video because it's a lot cheaper. For example, seeing a movie with a date in a theater would typically cost me $17.50 here (plus with the inevitable concession stand purchases, add another $10+) whereas most single-disk DVDs can be had for $15 or so.
Please subscribe to see the more insightful version of th
I am baffled by the DVD complaints on slashdot.
/dev/kids. . . get the point?. It really is that simple - and that difficult.
(Before you claim I'm a studio exec - you should know that I'm a [Li|U]nix SA in a different industry)
Do people really think that if you pay a measly 18 bucks for a DVD that you own the unlimited usage rights to a $50million movie? You don't, you only own the right to look at it in a really limited way (hence the discount).
Do you know why they include all the forced-usage and adverts on the DVD? BECAUSE YOU STILL BUY IT. Do you remember how much movies used to cost before DVD? A LOT MORE THAN THEY DO NOW. Why? The advertisements you say you don't want but buy anyway. When you buy a DVD folks, you enter into a bad, limited deal. Enter into a deal, live with the deal. (remember Micro$oft?)
Let me recap:
1) The ads serve to make buying the movies cheap enough that you can rewatch them over and over to save from reading books or spending time with your kids.
2) You oppose the ads and the format but lack any real willpower to NOT make this complete leisure purchase.
3) Because of #1 and #2 you are in a really tough spot because you are too cheap and/or lazy to really do anything but whine.
4) The MPAA execs can't hear your whining over the din of your living-room TV and the constant clanging of the Blockbuster cash-registers.
Translation: Until you make the tough decisions to live without constant video-entertainment the MPAA is a 10t more l33t than you and 0wns your fr33 t1me, d011ars, and your
[This space intentionally left burning]
Just remember that so far Toshibas are the number 1 brand on the "won't play DVD-R, DVD-RW or DVD+RW" list, so as long as you don't plan on ever burning your own DVD movies (legal or otherwise - I just took my family to the zoo last night, captured 60 minutes on my mini-DV camcorder, got home and fire-wired the video to my PC and burned a DVD of the video) go with the Toshiba.
If, however, you think you think you might want to someday play a burned DVD, consider a different brand. Check here for more information on compatible DVD playes.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
Long term, the best players will be PCs running a Free player of some kind. Short term, these players still have the occasional incompatability or lack features.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Two huge examples of why region-free DVD players are great: the UK only (Region 2) DVD sets of the complete first seasons of Family Guy and Futurama.
These examples instantly defeat the MPAA's argument that region coding helps them skew movie releases in different markets (as if that wasn't obvious already).
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
No. Granted, the executive could have been braver. But his view was solicitied by Greg Santoval, the journalist who wrote the article you linked to.
Also worth noting is that his view is not directly attacking an ethnic group.
And, note that Santoval's article has no clues as to the executive's ethnic group.
When I moved here, I wanted to get a Safeway store card. No problem, they said - here's the card, return this form after you fill it out, here's your groceries, have a nice day.
I took the form home, and it got lost. No, not deliberately, though I have no incentive to look for it now. I have found the form a few times, and have thought about returning it so I can start to get air miles, but they aren't for the 3 airline programs I am already in, so there's not much point. Even though my receipts all say "new customer" on them, I still get the discounts, and the system still racks up special discounts for me when I buy over a certain amount in a month.
They can still use my purchasing data in aggregate form, you see - they know that somewhere there's a person, probably a single white geeky male, who buys low fat and health foods, but then also binges on chips and dingdongs every other month. They can offer me coupons based upon the brands they know I buy, without having to verify my demographics. It's all pretty cool. I don't mind being "targeted" in this fashion, either; if I already use the stuff, why not?
And yes, I always pay cash.
Get off my launchpad!
The old, broken APEX player I sold for $70 or whatever on ebay allowed direct seek to title and chapter points IF you turned off the designer's play. It had tons of great features for really watching dvds, and not just allowing one's self to be led around.
But I would never, ever buy another one. APEX's quality is so terrible that I hated watching movies on it. VCDs looked worse than usual. I cursed the appearance of a bright red in a film, because it was destined to bleed all over the damn screen. It was, in general, worth even less than the paltry $100 I spent on it, and far less than the $70 I sold it for.
I'm now running a Pioneer DV-37. Doesn't have your fancy disk functions, but greens don't decompose, reds don't bleed and sound channels stay right where they're supposed to. Sometimes I do pine for the feature set of that hunk of crap APEX player, but within the first five minutes of Sanjuro I'm over it.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Do you know why they include all the forced-usage and adverts on the DVD? BECAUSE YOU STILL BUY IT.
The forced ads on DVDs are on a small, small minority of DVDs out there. Disney got a lot of PR backlash when they did it on the "Tarzan" DVD, and they stopped doing it. I haven't seen another DVD yet in the years I've owned my machine that employed similar tactics.
The companies included them because their marketing department thought it was a good idea, and they were wrong. It's since been changed. Quit blaming the user, Republican.
My impression has been that highly flammable mattresses can be sold just as long as the tag tells you how unsafe they are.
That's because that is the only unencrypted portion of your DVD. I have exactly *one* DVD that's unencrypted, and that's the Bandai Anime demo disk I got at Comic-Con a week ago. The version of Xine you get with Lycoris Linux Build 46 will play it gleefully.
I find it better to call Xine from a console window rather than double click the icon because you can see what's going on with the player. If you do that you will see that it shows a message "unable to read encrypted content" every time it quits on a encrypted DVD. It also shows you exactly why it burps every so often on MPG files and VCDs.
Some people have said Xine can be made to play encrypted DVDs by adding some library or another. I have tried with libdecss but I haven't been able to feed it to Xine so that it sees it. It's very annoying.
NOTICE TO ALL COMPANIES WHO MAKE LICENSED DVD PLAYER PROGGIES FOR WINDOWS: I will PAY to get an easily installable DVD proggie for Linux. I know that both the makers of WinDVD and PowerDVD have Linux players but they don't sell to the Great Unwashed, just OEMs. I AM WILLING TO PAY to get full DVD functionality on Linux. I don't care about the GPL, this could be a total "black-box" non-free program as far as I am concerned.
C'mon, guys! Cough it up!!!
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
The concept of software, be it computer program or video or whatever, being fundamentally different from any other property is pure fiction created by the Disneys and Microsofts of the world to rationalize their quest for ever-increasing revenue in exchange for ever-decreasing value. "Why?" Because they quickly discovered that nobody would buy movies at $90 a pop, which is what they cost in the early days of home video, and that lots of people would buy them when the price fell to that of a few overnight rentals. As for ads "keeping the cost down", I strongly doubt you will find any significant difference in the price of an ad-saturated/forced disc vs. one with no or isolated trailers. Speak for yourself, please. I buy, or do not buy, as pleases me...and the quantity and/or obnoxiousness of advertising frequently enters into that decision, as the manager - and about two dozen customers within earshot - of the local Lowes theater found out a couple weeks ago. I got passes for another show, and coincidentally, or perhaps not, that movie didn't have 15 minutes of soft drink and minivan ads preceding it. (I don't mind trailers, in moderation, as they're usually at least nominally entertaining. But that tolerance is also my decision.)
All that being said, I do agree with you that this crap persists and expands solely because people continue to pay for it, and I often have a hard time understanding why they continue to pay for it. Eventually Disneysoft-Warner will go too far even for Joe Average Consumer, and perhaps that'll bring some kind of sane balance to the whole mess. In the meantime I'll keep my own counsel, buy DVDs now and then, and reserve the absolute right to deploy countermeasures as necessary to deal with the more obnoxious & invasive crap the would-be media gods try to lay on me. Blues.
DDB
Life is like surrealism: if you have to have it explained to you, you can't afford it.
[How OT is this???]
It's not just flammability. Notice the part that says "All New Materials"? This is to set it apart from say, the chairs my cheap-ass employer bought, where the tag is bright yellow and says "All Second-Hand Material", but, reassuringly, "Contents Sterilized".
I am not making this up.
> not only am i offended as a Jew but
> I'm offended as common, decent, person.
By this troll? Surely not--you'd have to take him seriously for that. If there is someone devoid of any original thought, it's this guy. He's regurgitating rhetoric that's been around for as long as bigotry, while probably under the impression of being on the cutting edge of social awareness.
Thanks for a teriffic reply! Saved me a lot of trouble writing pretty much the same things.
Just for the record though, I've purchased several DVD players in the last few years, and maybe 15 or so DVD movies. I usually just borrow or rent them.
While it's very disturbing and unfortunate that the motion picture industry has decided to make all these efforts to restrict what we can/can't legally do with a DVD, I don't think that means I'm being a hypocrite for continuing to buy the products while complaining.
I think the technology itself is sound, and stands on its own merits. Simply saying "I don't like the FBI warnings or the trailers, so I'm going to refuse to ever buy a DVD player or disc!" only helps kill off a perfectly good technology. (Does Hollywood really know that people aren't buying DVD because they're upset about those restrictions and trailers/warnings? I suspect, instead, they'd simply conclude that DVD technology wasn't offering enough value for consumers to keep purchasing the format. That would leave us with less ability to buy/rent/view movies at home in higher-resolutions.)
It seems better to me to continue to buy the products we like and want to use. Then, pinpoint the issues we have with them and complain, complain, complain! It may or may not fall on deaf ears, but at least they can't say they never understood the problem.
I definitely see what you mean about money eventually going to the same people, that being the movie studio, but I still have to disagree, as that's only one of the parties making money on DVD sales. The other people involved are the shippers and the local resellers of this stuff, and their costs are not the same as those in USA/Europe.
;-)
I don't want to stereotype and make bad assumptions, but I'm relatively sure average income in let's say India is lower than USA in dollars. That means that selling a video there for $15 is not going to fly, and the studio needs to price it lower. Same thing with costs, if the video store owner in India can pay his workers $1/hr, and USA is $6, you're going to have upset USA companies if overseas sellers are making a larger profit on the sale of the same amount.
Anyway, the short point is even if I don't necessarily agree with it, I see at least some logic between region differentiation, in both distribution and pricing. And that's hard to say, as we suffer here in the States too. I mean, UK had Muse's last album a long time ago, but still no distribution here in USA. Same story for the new Primal Scream album that's about to come out - hard to pay those exhorbitant import prices.
As for going cheaper to the movies: you can go to the movies without paying for popcorn/chips/drinks you know. I don't have a problem with that. I drive to the theather, park on the free parking, pay income, watch movie, go back to car, drive home. It's easy, and you had a good time. It's really cheap entertainment if you have the will to resist to the tempations of foods and drinks.
Well said, brother. Unfortunately, I don't see an easy road for myself when I tell my girlfriend that I can't get her Swedish Fish because "Corporate Troll said so"
Please subscribe to see the more insightful version of th
I've played vcds and svcds on mine before and after flashing the bios. Mine even says vcd on the front of the actually player, maybe they've changed the newer models?
Recent models have dropped support for Video CDs, and this is rumored to have been because of pressure from Sony. (Why Sony would pressure this, I do not know.) However, Super Video CDs play fine.
Actually what happened is that Apex didn't pay the royalties to whoever owns the VCD standard, so their newer players had to have VCD capability removed.
Check the serial number of your player... if it ends in xx08 then it hasn't been hacked either way yet; it's one of the strange new models that among other things doesn't play VCDs, unfortunately. Check out the Nerd-Out forums, go to the AD-1100W section, and look at one of the pinned topics; it's the model/serial number guide.
And of course, no one seems to comprehend that _they_ are the consumer, and therefore can rip off all the damn tags on every mattress, pillow, and chair in their house.
We need a new law that says any comedian or cartoonist that refers to someone getting in trouble for removing the tag should be smothered with a tagless pillow...