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One Step Closer to NWN for Linux
Apostata writes "It's been a long, long road for those of us awaiting the oft-delayed Linux Client of BioWare's NeverWinter Nights, but finally there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel. BioWare has put up a Linux Client page which will specifically inform eager beavers on how things are progressing, and it now states a Fall 2002 release." God if only it were true- I could
slaughter the villagers and read my email without rebooting. Gotta make
sure I don't get that backwards.
I'd rather see the Linux server piece get some more attention. I have basically given up running a full time linux NWN server - it's not very stable.
To the NWN community's credit, several neat tools are available to help and make things easier.
The sticky Linux server thread has alot of good information for this, including lots of good scripts that will restart the server if (I mean when) it decides to dump core.
"God if only it were true- I could slaughter the villagers and read my email without rebooting. Gotta make sure I don't get that backwards."
This from the guy who always tells us that he can't preview quicktime files! Just reboot taco! Reboot and feel the power of the Darkside!
they improve it, I won't get it for linux. Doesn't matter what system you run it on, the AI will still be horrible.
Go over to MacSoft's webpage. They're the guys working on the Mac port.
http://www.wizworks.com/macsoft
Neverwinter is listed as a Summer/Fall 2002 (so probably Fall.. =) including the Toolset! I'm actually going to buy a seperate Mac copy just for the toolset, as it'll be easier for me to find time to work on mods on my iBook (hopefully TiBook by then) than having to sit at my desktop Win/Linux box.
The single player isn't that great, but the multiplayer, and the ability to make your own single player is what NWN is all about. The Bioware included single player adventure is basically a dog and pony show, showing off all the little gizmos you can set up with the toolset. Not much more than that.
Okay, it's a step in the right direction to have more games on Linux, but could they fix the glaring problems first?
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
I could slaughter the villagers and read my email without rebooting. Gotta make sure I don't get that backwards.
Yeah, it would suck to reboot and read your email without slaughtering innocent villagers.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
The story's not nearly compelling enough to cover for any flaws in the gameplay (as in BG2), and the gameplay's not nearly addictive enough to cover for any deficits in the story (as in IWD). Without that compensating effect, the end product ends up feeling a little tepid. Still fun, but not memorably so.
I wish I could say I just have some irrational bias against NWN, but -- well let's put it this way: The look on my face when I picked up the box at EB was that of a boy who's just decided to sneak the world's cutest stray puppy home from the park. And the look on my face after about 8 hours of playing was that of the same boy, finding out that the puppy just took care of some business in Mom's basket of clean laundry.
"Let's hear it for the Northern hemisphere, the most happenin' hemisphere in the world!..." -simpsons
It might be a lesson for you Americans...
BTW, Bioware is a Canadian company.
why run from Vincenzo?
Firstly, I'm not sure what an "NVN" client is (Nevervinter Nights?...for our German guests?), secondly there *is* a webpage, thirdly, go to www.tuxgames.com and see the DEVELOPER-GIVEN release date: Nov 16.
Don't talk to me about *facts* until you read the bloody article. Isn't there a movie out there you should be boycotting?
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
... 'cause then you'd be... um.... reading your villagers and um.... slaughtering your e-mail... yeah... that makes sense.....
I've had the most fun playing NWN with people I already know, but actually, I've also had really good luck just going online and connecting basically at random to an interesting looking server, meeting some folks, and dungeon-crawling a bit. There's also a few decent sites (Neverwinter Connections, for example) geared towards getting like-minded people together for games, and that seems to work pretty well.
Have you played with the toolkit at all, or at least downloaded a few modules? This is a game whose potential won't be realized all at once.
It might make sense to make Linux a premiere platform except for a couple things:
1) more than 90% of the market runs windows
2) of those who run linux most of them (though I have no idea what percentage), run Windows as well
Generally speaking gamers know most games are released for Windows primarily or exclusively. Therefore gamers all own Windows machines for this purpose. Frankly it's one of the only reasons I still run windows.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Neverwinter Connections saves that game. Matchmaking with real DMs and players, not the typical Diablo horde that infests the Gamespy chatrooms.
It's called a "run-on sentance". Perhaps you should have spent more time in english class instead of in front of "Baldur's"...
For those keeping score, the above retort is officially ironic.
it is a very different sort of game than those, surprisingly enough. for some that is good, for some that is bad.
Dammit.
"developer given" release dates are worth about as much as the molecules of phosphor that you read them from.
In other words, next to nothing. Believe it when you have the client on your machine and are running it. not before.
"I played NWN on a Win2K box and didn't reboot for over two weeks. So what are you talking about? Oh I forget, I'm talking to a /.er"
I think most MS people that jumped ship to Linux did so after Windows 98. I don't blame them for that. Windows 98 was horrid. Sadly, they missed Windows 2000 in the process. Pity, if they hadn't, they'd have more respect for the Windows NT line.
In the mean time, we'll have to put up with stale 'herherher Windows always crashes, give me a +1 Funny' jokes. Oh, if MS made something shitty 4 years ago, it stands to reason they couldn't possibly have improved.
that post was still not constructive enough, you should've added something about the relative merits of linux and windows
sic transit gloria mundi
Clearly the intent of the game is to be a kind of nexus where people build worlds and come to.
It's not meant to be a play-once-and-throw-away game, so they didn't put all their eggs in the campaign it shipped with.
Otherwise put: please show me the world builder that accompagnied BG2.
Highlights:
- Entire official AD&D third edition rules support.
- Gorgeous 3d graphics on par with anything else out there. In this alone, it outshines bg2.
- Ships with a fun single player story line.
- The ability to link servers toghether (yes, you and your friend can combine a world toghether on your servers)
- Many different character classes and races.
- Variable story line. WC3, for example, is extremely linear (multiplayer is what makes that game).
- A hugely improved and innovated multiplayer interface and design. It works very well.
- and more... read the box
A con or two:
- gamespy is not, in my experience, well organized for bringing like minded players toghether. This is especially significant for AD&D.
- There doesn't seem to be a way to maintain state between modules. Which means npc characters kind of forget stuff that happened before.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
I don't really like NWN either why do so many people insist that punctuation should be used when writing punctuation is for books and medical publications why doesn't everyone recognize that retarded slashdot posters will never use it since all they can do is giggle like little school girls when they hear the word period
sic transit gloria mundi
Well it appears that the facts prove you wrong.
Only dead fish swim with the stream...
Why would he be running Linux if he wants to play games? It's kinda like buying a Playstation 2 and whining about not being able to play Zelda on it.
Err oops, yeah I think he meant that too. Doh. heh.
/. using 'reboot' and 'Windows' in the same sentence without aiming for a +1 Funny?
Thanks for pointing that out. What are the odds of somebody on
A story about games in linux means only the following responses will be posted:
./er's are all a**holes to these people yet they still post to slashdot.
_ _
1. The games sucks. All games released for linux sucks to Slashdotters that is what put Loki out of business according to most Slashdot readers. (I really like Alpha Centauri and Heroes3 but obviously I was in the minority.)
For some reason this makes folks feel better about the fact they do not get the game, or the fact they play their games on windows.
2. Windows fans bantering on about how they have never once rebooted the Win2000 or XP box running the game server at the same time that they play their games while the linux folks wait.
These are probably the same people that litter posts about how every other story is really not news for nerds and should not be included on slashdot. Stop freaking reading it then, geez.
3. I can't hardly wait and those guys actually doing the linux port are sh*theads for not moving faster to get the port out. Always willing to kick a company supporting linux these folks will spend paragraphs complaining that the commercial company is not moving fast enough or are evil for not getting out quicker.
Let me just say that I personally play games on a windows box I keep around for just that. I also buy linux games when I like something that is out. MythII, Alpha Centauri, Heretic II (mistake) and finally Heroes of Might and Magic III. I have not gotten Castle Wolfenstein but I want to get NWN and I have heard some good things about this thing.
Obviously I have read the posts and I am considering the negative remarks. Still, as part of the linux-using community I am glad that some companies take the time and care to do a linux release even if it is much later than the windows version. I prefer Linux and going to my windows box to play games is a pain.
_______________________________________________
ACK
"If I was one of those Mac or Linux Zealots, I suppose I would hate the gaming gap... but since I don't really have much of a problem with owning a dedicated "game PC", it's really kind of a non- issue to me."
Sadly, Linux Zealots are so anti-MS that they won't buy that as an option. Pity, really: they're shooting themselves in the foot with that attitude. From a practicality point of view, one should choose their OS/Computer based on what their needs are.
If one refuses to dual-boot Win2k on a Linux box, then they're also refusing to have good game support. If they can accept that, that's fine. However, Bill Gates doesn't care and most of us don't want to listen to stale anti-MS sentiments. At that point, it's your choice. Your discomfort is your own.
I used to be rather happy with Win2K; its the only Windows that runs at my home. I rather dislike XP and I especially disliked the politics around it. None of that for me or my family.
And then Win2K's SP3 hit.
It is apparent that ANY involvement with Microsoft in the future will include the same legal attitude. And I'd prefer to have nothing to do with it. Sadly, it looks like Win2K is on its way out.
I've already got some nice games for Linux. In the future, I'll have some more. I can live with that. And I don't have to stick my fingers in my ears and ignore whats going on around me to do it.
Its not zealotry. Its not stale rhetoric. It is, in fact, making my choice as a consumer to protect my best interest.
I have to take issue with anyone dismissing a storyline that takes 60 hours to complete and includes different plots for different character classes as nothing more than "a dog and pony show". I had a great time with the single-player campaign, and on its merit alone recommended the game to my father. He'll likely never play on-line, but he is immensely enjoying the single-player campaign.
I've played it through twice so far, with different characters each time, and I'll likely do it a third time. Perhaps I'll play on-line some day, but what I've experienced of on-line play over the last four years has destroyed what little bit of faith in humanity that my tech support day job hadn't already taken care of.
I prefer Linux. But I do run Win2k when I need Windows. Win2k is, by far, the best thing put out my Microsoft. However, it is not without fault. But it is much more stable and makes a pretty decent gaming platform if your hardware has drivers for it (I was suprised to find out because of Win2k's marketing, isn't always guarenteed).
Are the BSOD jokes outdated? Well. They're a bit dated, perhapse. But not completely out of line. There is a rather hefty legacy install of the Win9x line - one that Microsoft extended with release of WinME. Win2K is not infallible. And WinXP can be amazingly horrid at times. Microsoft has a certain history developed over its lifetime and not just during a small 4 year period - otherwise we'd all still be making Bob jokes.
Having said all that - there are so many other issues around Microsoft that I'm suprised the BSOD/crash jokes are the one thing that concerns you the most.
By your definition... gamers don't give a damn what they're using. Be it Windows, a PS2, or even Linux. If the game runs, they're happy.
I don't see any reason why gamers couldn't move to Linux if they so chose to. I don't expect a sudden flood of Linux converts; non-technical users tend to stay with their old install base (witness the entrenched win9x architecture). But eventually people move on - be it to the next version of their familiar OS or to completely alien environments.
I run Linux on my home network as well as Windows. My household has had no problems with getting around GNOME and KDE to use whatever Linux apps they want (and they're not overly technical users). But they do play a fair amount of games and so they're mostly in Windows. If these same games were offered for Linux - they would have no problem abandoning Windows. Although, it would probably be at my prodding.
What we're ending up with is the same old "Linux on the desktop" discussion. Whether it becomes commonplace for the average user makes for an interesting discussion. But really... when it comes down to it... I'm not overly concerned with it. I already have Linux on my desktop. I'm happy with it. And having NWN to add to my (small) list of games is a Good Thing.
NWN for Linux isn't necissarily cool because it opens the floodgates to Linux on the desktop. Its cool because its something I, and it seems a lot of others, want.
The toolkit/engine isn't all that flexible tho. There's a lot of things that should be props, but are instead fixed parts of the landscape. (eg, crates and barrels, tables, chairs) Adding completely new objects that weren't in the single player game is rather difficult. You can't create balanced items with bonuses and negative effects, the negative effects don't change the cost or level requirements.
"Its not zealotry. Its not stale rhetoric. It is, in fact, making my choice as a consumer to protect my best interest."
May I ask what about SP3 bugs ya? (I haven't kept up on service packs as of late, did they pull some TaC shit?) Im just curious why you made that decision. Don't worry, I have no intention of arguing with ya or telling you that you shouldn't have switched. (I have no business telling you that in the first place.) I just wanna know what you know in case I should be looking to move to Mac.
"Having said all that - there are so many other issues around Microsoft that I'm suprised the BSOD/crash jokes are the one thing that concerns you the most."
Heh. The only reason that BSOD jokes 'concern' me relates to something you said here. Windows has all kinds of silly issues. BSOD's are virtually gone. Win2k has wonderful uptime. So people using Win2k jokes are so sick and tired of hearing stale jokes about Windows crashing. It's like saying "Theater's better than movies because live actors are in color."
For example, one guy used to have a sig that read: "I left a Windows XP CD in my car overnight. The next morning I noticed that somebody broke into my car and left two more of them." Heh that one cracked me up. Microsoft continually generates comedic opportunities, but the Linux zealots out there or so unaware that the world has changed since 1995 that we still get the same old stupid jokes. As with the movies metaphor I used earlier, they sound about as informed about Windows when they make that joke.
To put it simply: Enough of the blue screen jokes, let's move on to some refreshing MS material.
I appreciate that ya didn't make the same assumption most do. Im so sick of people saying that Microsoft's paying me to say nice things about them. Frankly, I just want more intelligent comments and less idiotic ones that seem to always get +1's.
First, will there be a Linux port of the tools?
Second, how well will sound work? I haven't done much Linux multimedia for a while...last time I looked, things like surround sound were a bit lacking. NWN has some pretty good use of surround sound, and I'd hate to give that up.
The language in the EULA for SP3 includes a lot of the same language that showed up in WMP6.x (I think that's the right version) and falls in line with the overall theme of WinXP's EULA. Basically, its the right to modify the OS even if it causes something to no longer work. It seems to be a precurser to force-fed DRM "features".
Now... I could accept an argument for it with WMP. That is, after all, a media player. And DRM, etc, is a part of that. But I what I can't see is this being a part of bugfixes for Win2K. After all, the Service Packs don't include the latest DirectX.
I could have sworn Slashdot ran a story about it. Poke around. Shouldn't be hard to find someone talking about the issue - be it Slashdot, the Register, or somewhere else.
Ouch, that's shitty. Yeah I'll haveta look into that, thank you.
Cheers man.
OK. I can buy that. While I don't think the issue is completely put to rest, I can see how stability is now improved to the point of being minor compared to the other issues out there.
Maybe someone needs to write up a "Smart Basher's Guide to Windows" and denote BSOD jokes as "deprecated".
Hey - I can believe that Microsoft has gen-u-ine fans. Even if they're misguided.
When I started my IT career, I couldn't understand the Mac zealots. Then I began to work with a few and began to understand their gripe (even if I never warmed to MacOS personally). As my career progressed, I got tired of Windows and its issues and redirected my focus towards Unix.
Oddly enough, a good friend of mine (working many of the same IT environments I was) introduced me to Linux before I made that jump to Unix. He is still firmly in the Windows camp and we occasionally banter back and forth over MS vs Linux (as well as offer help for Linux/Unix or Windows issues accordingly).
I noticed a couple things. First, Windows supporters are not all technically blind idiots... and some of them aren't entirely misguided. Secondly, I found myself dangerously close to being like those Mac Zealots who used to puzzle me so much.
The world is much more complex than the zealots on either side of any issue would make it seem.
True true...
"I noticed a couple things. First, Windows supporters are not all technically blind idiots... and some of them aren't entirely misguided. Secondly, I found myself dangerously close to being like those Mac Zealots who used to puzzle me so much."
I'll tell ya something: I useta have a thing against Mac fanatics as well. I understand their point of view today.
You're right, though, not all of us are technically blind idiots. I use Windows 2000 because it's the best choice for me. As my title suggests, I use Lightwave, and I'm heavy into Photoshop and After Effects. Those are unavailable on Linux, and on Mac they don't have near the plugin support. Funny thing is, I'm not having stability issues. I haven't lost a render to Windows. But these pre-conceptions about Windows 2000 make people think that Im, at best, a masochist. They don't understand that it'd cost me close to $10,000 to get the software I need to make a Linux box do what I'm doing with my Windows box today with only $2,500 worth of software.
I aint no dummy. My computer has an IDE drive, 5 scsi, and two firewire drives. It's a dual processor machine with a gig of RAM (all assembled myself, I didn't buy this thing from Gateway...). It has two network cards, a scanner (well, ok, USB scanners aren't a challenge to install...), a DVD-RAM, and a CD Burner (Seperate unit from the DVD-RAM). I don't have stability issues. As a matter of fact, I can easily go a couple of weeks without a reboot. (it's considerably longer when I don't play games... heh.) Trust me when I say: If Windows 2000 was so painful to use, I wouldn't be running it now. I'd be out of a job.
In any case, I'm not out to tell the Linux world that Windows 2000 is great. The only reason I'm venting all this to you is that I hope at least somebody here understands that I am not misguided, I'm not misinformed, and I'm not an MS zealot. For me, Windows 2000 is the perfect fit. There are people who have very similar jobs that I do who feel the exact same way.
In any case, I've gone around this block too many times. Thanks for listening. Being understood is a nice feeling.
Cheers, man.
I had heard rumors that they scrapped the idea of putting out the full program for linux and are going to only put out the client (not the editor that lets you create new adventures, but just the program that lets you play in adventures someone else made.)
Does anyone know what the story is on this? Their website was almost completely informationless. I would go for a NWN program for linux only if it was the "real" thing. If it's some half-done port that only has the client then I'm not interested.
(I don't mind booting into Windows from time to time to PLAY a game, but I don't want to have to use it to DESIGN one. For designing I want to interleave the time spent designing the adventure with time spent doing other things on the machine, and those "other things" are not Windows things.)
The OS used is a lot more relevant when designing than when playing.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
... into a Linux-Windows testicle comparison here on /.? Who would of thought that possible?
Beyond my sarcasm, I love this game. I love it. I have played all the other recent RPG offerings from Bioware in recent memory and loved them all as well so I have a basis for comparison.
Is it perfect? Well... is what perfect? We're talking about 3(?) different components: the single player client (and campaign), the DM's client, and the toolset.
The single player campaign is great fun. I haven't even finished it completely with one character because I keep switching classes, wanting to play with them all. Even repeating the same chapter 4 times has not lessened my excitement for this game. Each time you change classes, you essentially get a new game to conquor. Not to mention going online using the player client and joining an amazing array of worlds is just so satisfying.
The DM client does have some bugs that need fixing but BW is working on it. They fixed a couple in the last patche that were considered 'game breakers' by some. I can control almost anything I want in my world. If I can't control everything I want with the default tools, I can script to make it happen. If I don't know how to script it, there is a great community of people just waiting to help create a solution to a problem. Many scripts have been posted on the forums there and cover the gamut of most DM needs.
The toolset is simply amazing. Though adding more tilesets and creatures would be beneficial (where are my kobolds? Level 1's need to be able to kill kobolds!!!) they have done very well with translating the creativity of a world-builder (DM) into something visible with the eye.
It sounds to me like most of the people bashing this game haven't delved deeply enough into the game, are stuck on comparing this game to other BW games, find a need to nitpick the small things (yes dragons should be able to fly. get over it) or just haven't played with all the different options enough (DM client, Toolset) to have enough information to base an opinion on.
The addition of the Linux based client will add a new dimension to playing this game. More people won't have to reboot to play now. Isn't that supposed to be a good thing?
Whoops! Forgot where I was. I'll prepare to get modded down immediately.
An Open-handed slap is better than a punch any day: Humiliation is a great tool
Disagree completely. Since getting NWN, I haven't even played online yet because I've been having so much fun playing the single player game. I also agree that for some strange reason NWN has some of the same feel as the old Final Fantasy games, but not in the sense that it's trying to copy Final Fantasy. It simply has a very distinct and unique feel that's extremely refreshing when compared to many of the more generic games that have been released in the same genera(i.e., dungeon siege).
If you've played through even the first chapter of the campaign, it's very clear that a LOT of thought went into making the single player game extremely dynamic and immersive. There are a good number of subplots that make it clear that the game was designed to be explored rather than played in the linear "forced march" style that is all too common these days. The NPCs react to you completely differently depending on your class / race / alignment combination, and you have a good enough degree of control over the conversation that you can avoid certain confrontations diplomatically if you wish to do so.
So, don't listen to people who disregard the campaigns as trivial add-ons when most of them haven't even played the game all the way through. IMHO, the game is worth it for the campaigns in and of themselves, and all the other stuff is just gravy!
BTW, if you really want to enjoy the game(single or multiplayer), I would suggest getting the camera angle hack, which allows you to zoom in and out to any degree you see fit. The default camera configuration really limits what you can see, and the artists have done a superb job on the details.
A musician without the RIAA, is like a fish without a bicycle.
Really, it sucks that Bioware and Interplay had legal problems. I sort of feel that Infogames forced Bioware's hands in releasing this game with only a very short public beta run. While there might be plenty of reasons for the release date, I somehow am getting the impression that Infogames is responsible for the switch from "simultaneous release" for all operating systems to "wait until fall for Linux and Mac versions, sorry..."
It is saddening, since even when it went gold, I thought that the Linux version was going to be in the box. I guess I didn't read the press releases.
There are also some bug-related issues in the game, but they don't seem to bother me that much.
All that being said, the game is still really awesome. Especially multiplayer. The changes to 3E were minimal (though I don't get why they added parry mode) for the PC translation. Obviously, some spells and cleric domains were taken out, but it is still darn cool.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
We'll talk about that in 2 years when Microsoft has "upgraded" anybody they could catch with DRM.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
I just don't see how the lack of toolset for Linux would mean more reboots. It would if you approached it from the standpoint of someone who prefers being booted into linux for everything else besides the game, like web browsing, e-mail, programming, and so on. Having to go to windows for NWN developing and switching back to linux for everything else is a lot of rebooting. And since task switching into and out of NWN is going to be a lot more common while developing an adventure than whan playing it, it's the DM toolset that matters most to alleviate this. While playing the game I'm not likely to want to be switching between it and other apps. But while DESIGNING an adventure, I am. (For example, I might want to edit a sound file in a sound tool, and edit some textures in GIMP, and so on, WHILE I have the adventure creation app up and running.)
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.