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DVD Region Encoding on Verge of Collapse?

Spudley writes "It seems like the infamous Region Encoding system used by DVD manufacturers to prevent us buying disks from overseas is about to collapse - due to widespread flaunting of the system. This article on the BBC doesn't go into much technical detail, but does include an interview with a company that manufactures DVD players ("You can find codes for more or less all brands of DVD player including ours") and some speculation on the future." It always seemed like an idea destined to fail.

27 of 550 comments (clear)

  1. It was a bad idea to begin with... by Viewsonic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can understand that people want to tailor their specific videos/software per region because of language barriers and such, so it'll be easier to track and distribute... But.. DVD is a medium that was MEANT to be an "all inclusive" format.. Meaning you can have Japanese, Spanish, whatever languages, subtitles, etc all on the same disc, or discs. Often in these region mixups, different people got to work on the movies and decided to add uncut footage that the other regions didn't get so it pissed everyone off .. Now everyone can be the same. Finally.

    1. Re:It was a bad idea to begin with... by jmu1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Added to that, there are multinational/multilengual people that wouldn't get the chance to see something from their homeland unless they bought _another_ player.

    2. Re:It was a bad idea to begin with... by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "...people want to tailor their specific videos/software per region because of language barriers and such..."

      You don't really mean that do you? I mean seriously, does ANYONE see DVD region-encoding as ANYTHING but a ludicrously obvious effort by producing companies to introduce market control and artificial scarcity, thus allowing inflated pricing?

      You are a company, you have a right to try to sell your products for as high a price as the market will bear. The market, on the other hand has a right (yes, a right) to try to force your prices as low as it can. If the perceived total net cost of piracy is less than your selling price, you lose. You can (as the RIAA, BSA, etc) try to raise the perceived cost of piracy, at the cost of goodwill.

      The internet killed region-encoding, plain and simple. It'll kill any similar effort at market control such as inflated digital media pricing (note to RIAA: piracy will dissolve if you reduced your prices to something commensurate with the music's value....), and even the stupid German book price-fixing laws.

      Good riddance to blatantly greedy marketing schemes. Go start a chain-letter or something.

      --
      -Styopa
  2. Re:why? by trajano · · Score: 4, Informative

    Its usually because of the licensing and copyright restrictions by the artists and manufacturing companies.

    When someone wants to put a soundtrack or put an actor on a movie, they have to specify who they are distributing it to in the contract.

    So usually they sometimes go this anime sound track can only be distributed in Japan. No where else.

    Or this European actor can only be shown in theaters playing in Russia.

    --
    Archie - CIO-for-hire :-)
  3. Re:why? by Caballero · · Score: 5, Informative


    Strictly economics. The studio wants to control the spread of the movie to maximize profit.

    Movies often open in the US 6-9 months before they show in Europe. In many cases, the US DVD is out before the move has opened in Europe. With region codes they make it hard for Europeans to buy the DVD instead of going out to the theater.

  4. Um, no, it works just fine by gerf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It always seemed like an idea destined to fail

    No, i think it did its job spledidly. It prevented the general populace from spreading movies where they don't want, and it still does. How many people do you think buy a Gateway Computer, with DVD, tech support, ect., and don't know jack about Regional encoding. Trust me, they've done what they wanted to do, and it will still work, to a surprising degree, well into the future.

    Just think how many people still can't program the time on a VCR. Do you seriously think they're going to find a go-around to Regional encoding when they're barely competent enough to wipe their own arse?

    1. Re:Um, no, it works just fine by Ldir · · Score: 4, Informative
      No, i think it did its job spledidly. It prevented the general populace from spreading movies where they don't want, and it still does . How many people do you think buy a Gateway Computer, with DVD, tech support, ect., and don't know jack about Regional encoding.

      I think that's a U.S.-centric view of the situation. Region-free and region-selectable DVD players aren't that widespread in the U.S. simply because there's little incentive to do the mods here. We already get the widest selection of titles at the lowest prices. There are exceptions, of course, like Japanese anime lovers and film buffs looking for a certain, often uncut version of a film, but they're a small portion of the overall U.S. market.

      The rest of the world is in a different boat. When you read about region-coding hacks, you are almost invariably reading about someone who wants to play Region 1 discs. This article is a case in point.

      If you do a Google search for "region-free", most of the sites you find will be overseas. The retailers who sell region-free players and mods are everywhere but the U.S. When I ordered a mod board for my Pioneer, I ordered it from a European site and paid in Euros, even though the company shipped the product from an office in the U.S. Their major focus is Europe; they don't do much business here in the USA.

      Having said that, I will be astonished if Hollywood really gives up on region-coding. They are the ultimate control freaks; it's hard to imagine they'll suddenly start selling what the customer wants instead of what Hollywood wants.

  5. More links by countach · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here is the press release from the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission's investigation into the legality of Sony's region encoding. Here is Sony's response. Here is more info about the ACCC's stance. And Here's what aussies think of it all.

  6. Apex by Apreche · · Score: 4, Informative

    is a particularly cool company. If you haven't heard of them they make very very cheap DVD players. Like 60 bucks for some of the models. As far as I know they were the first to have "cheat codes" to unlock regions. And some people are paying hundreds for region free players! The really cool thing about Apex players is that some of the models have PAL converters in them. So you will really have no problem watching DVDs from England or anywhere else.
    Be warned though. Apex's players are 60 bucks for a reason. They are made of cheap parts and cheap plastic. Basically they are pieces of crap, and the region changing/pal converting is the only feature they have. I don't even think they all have optical audio out. Yeah, so check them out, it's the cheapest solution I've found.

    --
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    1. Re:Apex by (startx) · · Score: 4, Interesting

      it's not the ONLY feature they have. my $68 apex player from wal-mart will play any region dvd, any vcd, svcd, mp3 cd, kodak picture cd, audio cd, and even raw mpeg burned to a cdr! oh, and it's got component output and I've flashed the rom to be macro-vision free too! It really is a neat little peice of hardware, and perfect for tossing into a dorm room, because if someone breaks it it's relatively cheap to replace :-)

  7. Not just release scheduling by crow · · Score: 5, Informative

    If it were just a matter of scheduling releases (which is the most often cited reason for the coding), then they wouldn't include region coding except on recent movies. But look at DVDs of classic movies; they're all region coded.

    Why?

    They want to maximize profit by charging different prices in different markets. They know that if they set the price 50% or 100% higher in some region, then people will import from the cheaper region. Region coding is supposed to stop that. In practice, this is the main reason that people want to bypass region coding--cheaper discs from other regions.

    1. Re:Not just release scheduling by Fat+Casper · · Score: 4, Insightful
      They want to maximize profit by charging different prices in different markets.

      And now they're starting to realise that if you only have one product to sell, then you only have one market. I love it: This was such a grass-roots effort that it wasn't organized at all- just people everywhere voting with their wallets.
      Meanwhile, back at the Capitol, the MPAA is pouring in money trying to stop history.

      --
      I spent a year in Iraq looking for WMD and all I found was this lousy sig.
  8. Simple solution by rhadamanthus · · Score: 5, Insightful
    APEX AD-3201. At K-mart for about 100 bucks. Open the tray, press 8-4-2-1, and turn off region encoding and macrovision. Wonderful. Some people say the quality of the player is questionable--but it works fine for myself, and so does the one I got my dad...

    this will probably be modded as offtopic--which only makes my sig more ironic than usual...

    ---rhad

    --
    Slashdot needs to interview Natalie Portman.
  9. They still don't get it by niall2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The idea here was to keep people in regions where a film had not been released from getting the film ahead of time. Once again the MPAA has the kneejerk reaction of stopping the flow of things. Just like when the VCR came out...how to keep people from reprodicing movies.

    I go to movies in the theater not because its the only place to see a film. I can wait for most films to be released on DVD before I truge off to the theater to stand in line and pay too much for popcorn. No I go to the theater to got the theater...to see Spiderman on a 36 YARD diagonal screen. Film is much more engrosing not having a pause button.

    This is also obvious when you see how rare the MPAA rereleases great films. How many out there who own 2001 on DVD would pay to see it on the big screen. I'm sure we could come up with a list of hundreds of films they could put back out and have people flock to see them (think about how much better the summer would be if you knew there were going to be some good films that you could look forward to in addition to the list of ones you hope will be good like MIBII).

    I think overall the real problem with the MPAA and the RIAA for that matter is they are in it for the money...not for the art. Yes the money may currently be in getting the 13-21 year olds into the seats, but if they tried to focus on the art rather than the product they might just be able to get the rest of us in there a little more often (and we'd still buy the DVD).

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  10. Industry's 2 "real" reasons for region coding by lordpixel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you ignore the possibility that they won't fit in the available MB because of the extra 30 minutes of outakes and inane commentaries, then the original idea was that DVDs could be sold with multiple soundtracks & subtitles thus reducing costs.

    In reality, 2 reasons are cited in defense of region coding:

    * fees for extras (commentaries, FOX tv "making-of" specials) are often negotiated per region. It would cost the studios some effort and $ to get permission for all of the pieces in every market, so they make a European version without all that stuff [1]

    * Censorship. Most European countries have their own version on the MPAA rating scheme. What's OK in the UK might not be in France, and vice versa. So there end up being a dozen different little cuts that have to be made to get the rating [2]

    My personal feeling is it exists to maintain the old price differentials. DVDs are more expensive outside of the UK. Most of the studios have a European distributor who fiddles with the artwork, replaces the [R] rating with a (18) logo etc. If you could just use the region 1 disk, all of the "value" these people add wouldn't be needed anymore. The middleman would have to adapt - and we know that unfortunately people often try to use a technical fix to prop up their existing revenue model.

    For a reverse example, the BBC usually region codes its TV shows. This is, I've heard, because it has a US distributor (Warner Home Video) who is supposed to get first refusal for all US releases - and they would feel threatened if people could just import what they wanted to watch when its released in the UK. So they mandate region coding. Not sure what would be in it for the BBC otherwise - its certainly a Hollywood studio thing.

    [1] the smart reader will have figured out you can do this whether you region code the disk or not.
    [2] once again the smart reader will be wondering how the hell this sort of granstanding by a few un-elected arbiters of taste is supposed to be beneficial in any way.

    --

    Lord Pixel - The cat who walks through walls
    A little bigger on the inside than out

  11. Re:why? by tftp · · Score: 5, Informative
    The business justification is simple. Advertisement of a movie in one country costs N million dollars; if you do it in M countries you must have N*M million dollars. But this is expensive, and where the money would come from? Especially right after the movie is done and all the investment/loan money already spent?

    The easy way out is to start in few countries, collect money, recoup your advertising expenses, and reinvest into advertising in another country or group of countries. This way you only need N million dollars regardless of how many countries you sell the movie to. This, of course, takes time, and that's where the delay comes from.

  12. Re:why? by rekoil · · Score: 5, Funny

    To translate a film from American English to U.K English? What do they do, overdub "F*cking" with "bloddy" every time it's uttered?

  13. Unfortnately 'multi-region' players wont work soon by rjw57 · · Score: 4, Informative
    Region codes on a player are actually stored as a bit-field where having bit 'n' set means the player can play region 'n+1' disks. So-called 'multi-region' players allow the user to set this bit-field to 0xff and hence 'play all regions' [Note this means that 'Region 0' plyers are better termed 'Region 255' :)].

    Some of the bigger studios (notably Fox) are starting to use something called 'Region Code Extension' (RCE) on their disk. With this the first commands the DVD player find on the disc are (in pseudo code):

    let r = Region Code;
    if(r == 1)
    jump to movie
    else
    jump to naughty person page
    endif

    Where 'jump to naughty person page' jumps to a still-frame saying somthing like 'You can't play this disk in this region'. A multi-region player can't cope with this since it reports its region mask as 0xff so will still jump to the still-frame.

    Only a plyer set to play region 1, and only region 1 can play the disk. Hence to play it you need a DVD player which allows you to reset the region an arbitary number of times (rarer) rather than a 'multi-region' one (more common).

    Of course some Linux DVD players simply have a 'region' field in their config file which defeats this :)

    --
    Rich
  14. Control by Restil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Region coding is about movie industry control. There simply is no other way to put it. They can scream bloody murder about decss being used to make pirated copies of their movies, and at least that has some small infitesimal nugget of truth to it.
    Region coding however, is not to prevent someone from using the product in an illegal manner, but to prevent someone from using a product in a legal, and more importantly PREFERED manner.

    People in other regions would prefer to purchase a DVD at a cheaper rate, and they could, but the cost has been artificially set such that it can't compete with other regions. Movies show later in countries outside of the US and the industry doesn't want to lose money on the theatre sales if the movie is already available on DVD.

    But unlike the descrambling issue, they can't scream bloody murder about piracy. Anyone and everyone that attempts to bypass region coding bought the movie. And if one DVD player comes out that is multiregion, once the price on it comes in line with other players, and it will, those other players will be unable to compete, especially in markets where the desire for a multi-region player is high. The other manufacturers WILL go multi-region as well, or they won't be able to compete. The DVD consortium won't like it, but they'll have to find a battlecry other than piracy to rally people to their cause.

    --
    Play with my webcams and lights here
  15. Good article by Featureless · · Score: 5, Informative

    This covers the subject pretty well, discussing the economics, sizes of markets, theoretical justification for region subdivisions, etc.

    DVD Region Coding

    Region coding is a perfect example of how the content production trusts abuse their special status. You see, our government, in its infinite corruptibility, has granted legal sanctity to the IP producer's content control systems. But the MPAA isn't just trying to use this new favor to prevent theft. They really see themselves as the natural owners of the whole transport layer and presentation medium, and they exploit it in any way possible - including with region coding, which (I suspect) allows them to sidestep the perils of free trade to further control prices.

    What gets me is that I don't even see region codes as a big loss for the MPAA; I'm curious about the substance of the price differences across region boundaries that this allows them to create. I understand that the movie industry is in the habit of doing theatrical releases months apart on different continents, and that this allows them to make sure that the American DVD does reach Australia before the movie hits theaters, but really, how often is that in danger of happening? I suppose there are cases where they decide some time after a release in one country to go for a release in another (probably based on sales figures)... But how much hardship are we really talking about, I wonder?

  16. The economics of region encoding by jcam2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The real reason behind region encoding is not
    to delay releases between different countries,
    but to maximise income. Movies (and many other
    kinds of intellectual property) sell at different
    prices in different countries, due to differences
    in purchasing power.

    A particular movie might make the most money
    when sold at $20 in the USA, but in Australia
    $10 might be the best price point. However,
    without region encoding there would be nothing
    to stop someone in the USA importing and
    re-selling movies from Australia. The end
    result would be that prices would be roughly
    the same in all countries.

    So if you live in a rich country, region
    encoding is a bad thing. But for citizens of
    poorer countries, it means that they are
    getting DVDs at cheaper prices than would
    prevail under total 'free trade'.

    So maybe the breakdown of region encoding
    isn't as good for consumers as you might
    first think ..

  17. On Verge of Collapse? I don't think so. by frozenray · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wholesale import of non-RC2 DVDs is forbidden by law in Germany and, since 1 August 2002, in Switzerland. I don't know about other countries, but the outlook for the EU is not good.

    I can still legally import RC1 DVDs from the US as a private person here in Switzerland, but this takes time and is rather expensive because of overseas shipping and customs expenses. Stores such as MediaMarkt used to have a good assortment of RC1 DVDs at reasonable prices, but this is now illegal. Since the primary reason to switch to DVD for me was the possibility to see a movie in English with English subtitles, I have practically stopped buying DVDs locally (the RC2 versions are often missing features from the US releases, and the English language audio track has permanent German subtitles).

    Bottom line: Thanks to the industry's ridiculous policies, the money they get from me is down to about 1/3 of what it used to be. Maybe I'm the only one, but if not, they'll sure find a way to blame the slump in sales to "piracy" instead of acknowledging that they're shooting themselves in the foot.

    And, by the way: How is this compatible with the "free trade" idea so cherished by many politicians today? Does "free trade" really mean "free trade as long as we can profit from it"?

    --
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  18. Re:Why are the hacking codes there? by hyphz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They didn't. In the early days of DVD, the 'cheat codes' were always there because the DVD manufacturers knew it would put people off buying the disks. They only put the region coding in in the first place because it was mentioned in the license. The 'cheat codes' were a dodge around the license; the license presumably says that users shouldn't be able to turn the coding off, so they claim that the 'cheat codes' are maintenance access codes for callout engineers (which many appliances have), and aren't for users to use. But then there's no law restraining them from being distributed as long as the DVD company themselves didn't encourage it too blatantly.

    This kind of thing isn't uncommon; the early portable MiniDesc recorders from Sony could have their 'one-generation-only' copy protection turned off by entering a code on the front panel buttons.

    I don't think this is illegal even in the USA. In the UK and probably Europe it's directly plain; you can get multi-region DVD players in a supermarket (because they are cheap units from Asia which were region free in the first place), and there are commercial firms devoted to chipping players, which have gotten to seriously sophisticated levels now (change between regionless, auto adjusted locking, or locked to any region you choose; no macrovision; user prohibition override (ie, you can skip opening ads or studio screens); chip placed on a plug-in daughterboard so if the player breaks, you just pull the daughterboard then send it to Pioneer or whoever and there's no problem) and there's nothing illegal in it.

  19. Re:Region Encoding == Censureship by Hanno · · Score: 4, Informative

    Europe have much less censorchip of movies than the US!

    Nope. Europe has a very different censorship than the US.

    We in Europe don't mind nudity or sexuality on screen - as long as it serves the story. (Porn is usually defined as nudity/sexuality without a plot. The French take this very literally - there are movies that show explicit sexual intercourse but that are not rated "porn" in France.)

    However, our censors get all giddy-up with violent / numb action movies.

    The US seems to be the other way round. Violence is ok, even in kid's movies, while a nipple can already be enough to qualify for an R rating. Eddie Murphy's "Boomerang" made a nice parody on this where an advertisement featured all sorts of atrocities, but a woman's breast was too much for the target audience...

    --

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  20. Volksempf�nger of the 90's by rainer_d · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I always considered (and still do) this region-encoding similar to the Volksempfänger we (Germany, then "Deutsches Reich", for the interested student) had from c.a. 1933 to 1945.
    These where radios that were only able to receive German radio-stations. No shortwave, no BBC nothing else.

    Granted, this was for obvious political reasons (and there were cinema-"commercials" educating the people not to listen to foreign radio-stations), but the possibility is there, still today.

    When will they limit the distribution of books ?
    When will a German book-shop be raided because he sells a US-bestseller not yet translated into German ?
    Think this is "impossible" ? Then think of Harry Potter and all the craze it created.

    --
    Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
  21. Re:why? by cei · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The UK DVD of Star Wars Ep II will be missing the 26 frames of head-butt in the fight sequence between Jango Fett & Obi-Wan, for ratings reasons...

    Likewise, the UK version of Disney's Lilo & Stitch has Lilo climbing into a cabinet with a pizza box lid for a door, while in the US version she climbs into a clothes drier. The UK ratings board had issues with that...

    --
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  22. Re:Head Butt? by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 4, Informative
    "They removed a head-butt? Why?"

    The head-butt was removed from Episode 2 because, according to the UK ratings board, was violence that was easily replicable by children.

    They don't mind light sabers because kids can't replicate that and hurt each other. But a head butt could easily be imitated.