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Sony Kills Betamax
Hiawatha writes "Years after losing its grip on the consumer VCR market, Sony has announced that it will discontinue the Betamax format. "With digital machines and other new recording formats taking hold in the market, demand has continued to decline and it has become difficult to secure parts," Sony said in a statement." Finally. Although this is the prototypical example of good technology outdone by better marketing, it's an example of a company being stupidly obstinate about wanting to own a system, and shooting themselves in the foot. Update: 08/27 17:52 GMT by H : Yes, they were successful in broadcast, and to some degree overseas - but the commercial success was still severely limited to, say, VHS.
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BetaMax WAS and IS better, but when it was first introduced, the tapes only held ONE HOUR of video/audio.
This, obviously, sucks. And it meant that movies really couldn't be put onto Beta tapes without splitting them. VHS ruled the rental market because of this, and most people liked being able to record more hours of their own stuff, too.
So Beta wasn't perfect by any means. It wasn't mis-marketed, it just wasn't right for the market, period. In the beginning, anyway.
I dont believe that you did.. And if you did, then I think it is quite unfair that you get an internet connection from your grave and I cant get a decent one from home.
Same here. I long ago assumed that Betamax (the consumer stuff) had been killed. I'm really quite surprised to see that it lasted through even the early '90s. How many people actually used it? All the people I knew who had a Beta VCR in the '80s dumped it when it was clear that VHS was going to win.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
There is Digital BetaCam. There is no Digital BetaMax. They are completely different formats.
I've got a bad attitude and karma to burn. Go ahead. Mod me down.
You forgot "Camcorder capture of movie in theatre converted to DivX"! According to Jack Valenti, we all have several gigabytes of this video format on each of our hard drives.
GMD
watch this
They're discontinuing due to lack of demand. Pro TV hardly ever used VHS.
Professional level TV production and distribution went digital back in the 90's. It used to be you'd see racks of beta decks in production studios and control rooms. Now they're racks of servers.
Those people that still need beta decks are probably buying them used from people who don't need them any more.
As Groucho Marx once said, "time wounds all heels."
Jon Acheson
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
It's probably like David Hasselhoff, only popular somewhere like in Germany or something like that...
bbh
Half-inch or 3/4 inch Beta? : )
Jon Acheson
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
this is really bad news to the TV people, I think, for betamax is vastly superior in quality compared to VHS.
No it's not.
Even if you accepted the fact that Beta was superior to VHS, which many people would disagree with, you'd have a hard time finding even a rabid beta fan who claims it was VASTLY superior. I mean, VASTLY? Come on, that's ridiculous.
Beta lost because of technical inferiority; it just couldn't record enough for people's tastes, and the nebulous clearer image just didn't make up for that fact.
Which is why the DMCA makes trafficking (sp?) in Beta VCRs illegal.
Also old VHS models without the automatic gain bullshit.
Feh.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
One place it becomes an issue is when you have TV screens in the foreground in a movie set. For example, the monitors inside the Nebuchadnezzar were playing VHS when they were in the background but Beta when they were in the foreground. You can read about it in an interview on the Matrix website.
-a
How to rationalize theft.
Does the movie start? No, you have to understand how to manipulate menus (which differ on every DVD) to get from the stupid-ass opening menu to the actual movie.
I don't know about your DVD player, but mine has a play button on both the remote control and the unit. You don't normally have to go through the "stupid-ass" menus.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Although pro-equipment could play betamax and could use betamax tape (albeit the higher quality stuff and filling the tape after 20min), most people confuse betaMAX (the consumer format) with betaCAM (the pro format).
Consumer BetaMAX players could not play betaCAM tapes so I doubt many pros bought them...
Although I don't doubt some garage shops uses betaMAX along the way, I think this categorization only serves to confuse the issue.
But when it came to recording your own, our Beta-III deck produced tapes which were indistinguishable from orginal broadcast. We owned a Beta-II/III and a VHS/SVHS deck. When our friends asked why, we'd do show them a head-to-head comparison, Beta-II/VHS or Beta-III/SVHS. The betas won every time.
Is vastly the right word? Yeah, I think so. Look at it this way: my seat-of-the-pants estimate was that home VHS recording was 90 to 95% of broadcast quality, home Beta was 98 to 99%. That's only 3% or so. But it's vastly closer to 100% than VHS or SVHS ever got.
I'm sooo glad the Tivos/etc are finally bringing in a next gen technology.
If vendors put DVDs into a cartridge, it's less likely that you'll scratch it. There's no reason to buy a replacement for an unscratched DVD. Think about it.
As for why VHS won, it wasn't really technical inferiority, but _perceived_ technical inferiority. Yes, Beta could "only" achieve 270 min of record time on its slowest setting compared to 480 min on NTSC VHS, but realistically, unless you really didn't care about heavy static, the slowest VHS speed was virtually unwatchable. This leaves the best setting on Beta and VHS to 90 minutes and 160, respectively. Realistically, again just IMHO, Beta's second slowest setting was still a better format than VHS's fastest, and would hold 180 minutes on a 750' tape.
This is all moot, though, because of VHS's VASTLY superior marketing. 'Just say to Joe Sixpack, 'quality's arguable, but ours holds twice as much!' and you've got a marketing coup. Who cares that hardly anyone I knew would record more than one movie to a tape, and most people either taped over the same thing daily for their 'soaps', or bought prerecorded anyway!
Keep in mind, though, that many would argue that the _sole_ reason that Beta lost was because Sony insisted on keeping all of the IP rights associated with Beta. Their Japanese peers were forced into promoting a more 'open' format. Ergo, Open Source wins again!
On the last DVD I tried it on, the play button didn't do anything. You had to select the "play movie" entry on the main menu. I assume that this was caused by poorly written UI software on the DVD. You should be able to play a movie without a remote, just using the buttons on the front of the DVD player.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Beta was slightly better.
Yes, it ran the tape over the head at a higher speed (good for fidelity with magnetic tape), but was narrower than VHS (bad for fidelity with magnetic tape). By the time "Hi-Fi VHS" arrived in the late 80's, the gap in quality was pretty much already closed.
No matter which type of tape you used, you still had the problems of the incoming signal quality, and those were the days before component video and S-video were common, so you were mushing the video and audio signal into an RF converter to send a coaxial cable to your TV antenna input on channel 3 or 4.
You can talk all you like about how nice a fast-forward looked on Beta tape, but who gives a crap how good the commercials look as you zip over them? I remember when my family bought their first VCR. We went with VHS, not becuase of popularity (rentals wouldn't catch on for a couple years, so what the neighbors used was a non-factor), but because Beta cost more, both for players and for tapes, and the tapes had shorter running times. A few years later, a friend of mine bought a Harmon Kardon "HiFi VHS" machine that looked and sounded every bit as good as my other friend's Sony Beta machine. Even Sony finally gave in and started making VHS machines in the end... and they were (and still are) some of the best consumer VCR's on the market.
Now it looks like PVR's like TiVo, and HDTV's wider screen (which most DVD's support but VHS does not) are causing VHS to die out, but it will probably cling to life for another 15 years, just like Beta did, because obsolete != useless. If it still works, and you can't afford the shiny new stuff, you will probably still use it.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
I was just about to refute the parent poster's quote of "Almost no one was buying movies back then" but you beat me to it. Almost no one was buying Hollywood movies. Given the choice between watching Superman II or Tron on a 17" screen with crappy sound, spending a few bucks going to the movie theater is an easy choice.
But if you want to watch porno, your choices were not as appealing. You could drive to a nasty neighborhood XXX theater or try to get a hold of 16mm film and a projector. With VCRs you could mail order a tape that you could watch in your own home. That's a killer app.
Not true. I have a friend who inherited a couple of Beta decks from his brother-in-law a few years ago, along with a few hundred tapes, both prerecorded and home-recorded. And three or four of the prerecorded tapes are extremely shitty early/mid-80's vintage porn titles - I have no idea how common or popular it was, but porn on Beta did exist ;)
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
The SL-2700 was not the original Beta Hi-Fi VCR, that was the SL-5200. My first VCR (and the second after the first got stolen!) was an SL-2700 - in my view, one of the finest VCRs ever built.
I still have my SL-HF1000, which, I think, was the fanciest Beta VCR Sony ever made (I had read about a special one for the 20th anniversary of Beta, but never saw it available for sale.) I haven't plugged it in for a few years, but it's there to play the boatload of Beta tapes I made after my son was born (using the first consumer camcorder, which I think was called Betacam, not to be confused with the pro format).
I too am a big Sony fan, though I never got into MiniDisc. My first TiVo was a Sony, though!
It was with a touch of sadness that I read this story. Yes, Sony took a great concept and screwed up its marketing and licensing. Ah well...
"Once again..Betacam (which is the 3/4 inch deck he's talking about) is in no way related to Betamax."
Read my post. Never said it was. I said DV damn close to Betacam.
"Anyone who uses premiere and says they can do the same quality as broadcast is straight up lying to you..."
Um yeah you can. You call people liars, but ya don't say why they're wrong. Premiere doesn't destroy the DV data. If the DV is close to broadcast quality (and it's used in broadcast a ALOT) then Premiere can make the edits without loss of quality. You can pay more and get better products, that's a given. The point I was making was that I have a complete solution for $5,000 and ONE (1) of the components the TV Studio had cost over $20,000. I've already done profesionaly quality using Premiere and DV so arguing with me on this point would prove both fruitless and humiliating.
"same with lightwave...try XSI next time buddy."
Oh boy, another lame 3d religious debate. Never mind that Lightwave is the standard broadcast animation tool. XSI is cool (and costs more) but there is no die-hard reason to use it over LW unless you have a very specific feature you need from it.
So yeah, nice attempt to troll there. I can see why you hid behind an AC mask.
I have not once had trouble skipping the warnings. While I can't fast forward, I can do a chapter skip, which is even better.
"Beta Sp isn't 3/4 - that is U-matic (or U-matic SP). Beta is 1/2 inch in two different size cartridges."
Thank you. I never could keep those terms straignt in my mind. (I was just the CG guy, heh. Didn't work with tapes much.)
It took a lot of expensive equipment to get the video off those tapes and into a computer. Then one day I plug my $500 DV camera into my Firewire port and I have most of that capability here.
To anybody looking into doing broadcast quality 3D animation: $500 DV camera (Sony TRV-140), $50 firewire card, and a $600 copy of Premiere (Educational license MIGHT work and be cheaper...) are worth the purchase.
Ford has announced that it will cease production of the Model-T after the 2003 production run. The company cited difficulty in finding craftsmen skilled in sheet metal beating as the primary cause.
Similarly, the Sperry Rand Corporation has ceased all work on new UNIVAC models. Sales had dropped off in recent decades to the point where the financial viability of the line was no longer profitable. It was also noted that the availability of vacuum tubes played into the decision.
Finally, The Mayo Clinic has declared that it will no longer offer leeching as a method of treatment for bad blood humours. "We've found that Mr. Moogle's Magic Tonic works just as effectively without the unsightly hickies," noted Chief of Staff Wilhelm Norton.
Back to you Hemos...
No man is an island, but Gary is a city in Indiana.
The thing to do, and I'm really surprised that this isn't more popular, is to get one of those Sony rotisserie style jukeboxes that holds 200 or 300 DVDs. I just got one to hold all my CDs (well, 400 of them anyway) mainly to get some clutter and plastic out of my life, and reclaim some bookshelf space.
Yeah, it costs a few bucks more than the single tray player but it doesn't cost nearly as much as replacing your DVDs because they all got scratched. I have replaced enough CDs over the years (I was an early adopter, I started in 1986, which wasn't all that early) that I wish they'd had a 400-CD jukebox years ago. Fortunately they have 'em for DVD, a pretty easy technology transfer I guess. Do yourself a favor and get one.
Perhaps originally. But the long-play L750 tapes came in very early, well before VHS obtained a major lead. I imagine that most VCR buyers didn't even know that that there had ever been such a limitation. I certainly didn't know it when I was buying my first VCR, and debating between beta and VHS (I bought an VHS, but ended up exchanging it for a beta because I was unhappy with the quality and the tape handling).
...is that now Faye Valentine will never get to play that tape she mailed to herself.
"You're never ready, just less unprepared."
Just Betamax. They said that Betacam would still be produced and supported. I couldn't imagine them killing it off now as there are still too many places (independent producers, TV stations, cable head-ends, etc.) using analogue Betacam SP.
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
NTSC playback on PAL works just fine.
Trying to find a PAL playback on NTSC TV is
much harder.
I bought a Sony SLV-ED100 which claims to play Any or NTSC/PAL/SECAM on either NTSC or PAL and record in NTSC or PAL. I've spent hours trying to get it to putout a proper colour NTSC picture from a PAL tape out of the component video - no luck. Unfortunately I didn't discover this until a bought a TV that was NTSC only (my previous Sony is NTSC/PAL).
I dont think i've ever actually owned a sony minidisc.
The one i have here is aiwa (and i'll admit pretty dated) but even still i suspect sony at least have the sense to keep licensing to third party manufacturers.
Anyway minidisc is pretty widely used. There are surely more md players in the world than mp3 players.
But you at lease don't find this a little interesting? How about the fact that it has taken this long for them to finnaly formally end the run for BETAMAX? I have an idea for you, if you don't like a story that /. posted, just skip it and read on. If you don't like any of the stories, go away and never come back.
For people in the broadcast industry, Sony's Beta SP and Beta SX (which is the newer digital version of Beta... the visual quality is great) are the standard by which all others go by. Sony really never dropped the stick ever as far as a professional broadcast medium is concerned. If you have ever shot on Sony Professional with good lenses, you never want to go back. Its rugged stuff too. Of course, you're gonna pay through the nose. My old camera cost about $45k when it came out in 89. Figure for todays money.
.5 billion dollar a year business with professional TV. When all the other competitors in Pro TV say "well, this feature is just like a Sony" you know you're really got it all wrapped up.
I shoot on a Panasonic DVC Pro Dockable Camcorder (although it really should be called an ENG camera, camcorders have a connotation of tiny, mine weighs well over 30+ lbs with batteries and mics, lcds and lights) right now. My news station is DVC pro. AS the old addage goes, you get what you pay for. All of the other stations shoot on Sony in Nashville, TN.
Trust me. Sony is not giving up on the professional end with Beta. It probably has at least a
What People Seem to Miss is that Sony is the Microsoft of Japan
Not even close. Wish I could say that statement is close. But I will provide you with a different analogy.
Sony hasn't stifled innovation that it has caused an industry backlash to the point that there are people making Sony-like machines FOR FREE.
Matter of fact, Sony is rather innovative. A lot more innovative than you give them credit.
If I try to fast forward I'll get a similar 'operation prohibited' type message, but the chapter skip works. I've got an old Sony DVP-S550D.
Calling it "bad marketing" is a bit unfair to Sony. Sony had a better product, and they charged more for it. Nothing unusual about that; they sold (and still sell) their TVs on the same basis. Sure, they don't sell as many TVs, but they sell them at a better margin.
The VCR was a classic example of a product being used in a different way than the manufacturer intended. VCRs were intended to be used primarily for time-shifting and archiving TV shows--that's what the famous "Betamax case" was about. That's why virtually all VCRs had TV tuners. Pre-recorded tapes were offered for sale, but they were ruinously expensive, and intended only for a handful of wealthy videophiles. From this perspective, Sony's high-end strategy made perfect sense.
What Sony didn't anticipate was the rise in tape renting, and the impact it would have on player sales. By the early '80's, there was a little "mom & pop" video rental joint in almost every neighborhood (this was before big chains like Blockbuster grabbed most of the pie). But supporting two formats doubled their cost (at those ruinous prerecorded tape prices). So they cut back on beta, the less popular format. Which made people less willing to buy beta VCRs. Which made rental shops less willing to stock beta tapes.
By now, we've seen a similar story played out with computer and videogame software. The less successful system gets less software, which makes it even less successful, which further reduces software development--and the market develops a kind of criticality. If you aren't wildly successful, you are doomed. But Sony had fewer examples to learn from (8-track audio tape, maybe? but that was also an inferior format). So we should not be so ready to fault Sony from the benefit of our 20/20 hindsight. Sony was just following the business model that had served them so well in the past, until suddenly, the world changed.
all tellies & VCRs made today are designed to automatically compatible with PAL, SECAM & NTSC.
It's simple cheaper as far as economies of scale on the production line. & its been like that for nearly 10 years.
as long as the telly & vcr are less than nearly 10 years old.
Ones made now are all PAL, NTCS & SECAM compatible - its simply better economies of scale on the production side & simpler warehousing/distribution setups.
You're exactly the sort of clueless bastard that's holding Linux back.
Linux is superior technology with a marketing system based on saying it's superior technology and hoping that will succeed.
It's doomed.