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Burn a DVD-AC3 Compatible CD-R

grant+harris writes "This interesting article shows how it is possible to burn AC-3 audio onto a normal CD-R. Will this technology usher a new type of online piracy when DVD-Audio and surround sound systems become more commonplace?" While this is only audio, it is a good step in the right direction.

215 comments

  1. DVD-Audio? by nedron · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What does AC-3 have to do with DVD-Audio? DVD-Audio uses Meridian Lossless Packing, not Dolby Digital. The DVD-Audio disc may also have an AC-3 or (preferably) DTS track for backward compatibility, but the main mode is MLP.

    --


    * As is generally the case, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
    1. Re:DVD-Audio? by Aztech · · Score: 2

      Not quite, there is no set format, DVD-A like DVD video is capable of using 6 channel 24bit/96kHz or 192kHz/24-bit 2 channel PCM streams, AC3, DTS, MPEG1/2 Layer II multichannel.

    2. Re:DVD-Audio? by MisterBlister · · Score: 0, Troll

      Why dont you take your silly "facts" and STUFF THEM UP YOUR ASS! This is Slashdot, we don't need any STINKING FACTS getting in the way of our open source related self masturbation.

    3. Re:DVD-Audio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > self masturbation

      there's another kind?

    4. Re:DVD-Audio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      masturbation - 1766, from Mod.L. masturbationem, from L. masturbari, altered (probably by influence of turbare "to stir up") from *manstuprare, from manus "hand" + stuprare "defile." Masturbate is first recorded 1857.

      So you see, it means to stir it up with a hand. You could jerk someone else off, and be mastrubating them.

      You make me sick, you uneducated piece of trash.

    5. Re:DVD-Audio? by Com2Kid · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      masturbation - 1766, from Mod.L. masturbationem, from L. masturbari, altered (probably by influence of turbare "to stir up") from *manstuprare, from manus "hand" + stuprare "defile." Masturbate is first recorded 1857.

      So you see, it means to stir it up with a hand. You could jerk someone else off, and be mastrubating them.

      You make me sick, you uneducated piece of trash.


      Yah these may be trolls bitching back and forth here, but I gotta agree, any idiot who doesn't know what masturbation means IS a complete idiot.

      Stimulation bub, doesn't really matter by WHOM (or even by what. Though some assumption of the 'what' having appendages is generally made. ^_^ )

    6. Re:DVD-Audio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for even further clarifying this issue. It is most egregious and heinous when these bitch-acolytes misuse words. He was trying to be snarky and ironic, pointing out what he thought to be redundant. The pedantic little bitch was handed his head on a platter.

    7. Re:DVD-Audio? by XNormal · · Score: 2

      The author of the article probably never heard of the DVD-Audio format and means "the audio format most commonly used on Video DVDs" i.e. AC3.

      With Sony's aggressive marketing of SACD most of us will probably never hear of the superior DVD-Audio format either...

      --
      Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
    8. Re:DVD-Audio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...but the main mode is MLP. "

      MLP? Mindless Link Propagation??? :)

    9. Re:DVD-Audio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dont worry, a couple of years from now it will be impossible to pick up a player* that doesnt support any format under the sun. Software availability is, of course, another matter.

      * yes, even "sacd" players will support dvd-vid and dvd-a, simply because it will be so cheap to implement

    10. Re:DVD-Audio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AC -3 is the most compliant and common format on DVD..that is, the spec for SETTOP players
      must(!) play AC-3 to be a DVD player.. No other audio capability is required. Most players in the US add MPEG audio to the features and still fewer machines handle
      PCM audio on your movie.
      Then there's DVD audio:
      This contains no VIDEO on the disc (except menus and teaser features (usually with AC-3 again) and the DVD AUDIO spec is given here
      http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html

    11. Re:DVD-Audio? by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 2

      Sony maybe agressively marketing SACD, but there are still just as many DVD-A discs being made. Have a look at High Fidelity Review. It also seems that the SACD format gets stuff I don't want to listen to, Toto's IV? While DVD-A gets more progressive music, Dishwalla.

    12. Re:DVD-Audio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gee, maybe if you had read the post you would have seen that he had already said "Meridian Lossless Packing" before using the abbreviation.

      You, on the other hand, are a MLP (Moronic Little Prick).

    13. Re:DVD-Audio? by nedron · · Score: 2
      "the spec for SETTOP players must(!) play AC-3 to be a DVD player.. No other audio capability is required."

      WRONG!!!!

      This is one of the biggest misconceptions about DVDs.

      According to the spec, the disc must include (audio-wise) EITHER an LPCM track or a DD track. DD tracks are NOT required for DVDs. You can just as easily create a DVD with LPCM tracks (preferable for 2-channel music) and NO Dolby Digital track at all.

      Did you bother to check this before you posted?

      Actually, the spec for DVD-Audio does provide for standard video DVD, albeit in a space limited manner.

      And the DVD-Audio spec is not "given" at the DVD Demystified site, it is simply regurgitated in a simpler (sometimes incorrect) form. The specs are available for $5000 from the DVD Format/Logo Licensing Corporation.

      "Most players in the US add MPEG audio to the features"

      What are you talking about?!?! MPEG2 is an optional encoding method in the US but I'm unaware of any domestic (US) consumer receivers that include MPEGII decoders that would be required to play the tracks. What would the point be of releasing a DVD with an MPEG2 audio track when there's very little chance (I would say virtually no chance) that anyone could play it? Please name a commercially available US release of a DVD-Video with MPEG2 audio.

      "still fewer machines handle PCM audio on your movie."

      Now you're just being silly. Keep in mind that any disc that doesn't have a DD track must have an LPCM track and all DVD players must play it. For the first two or three years, nearly all DVDs were released only with LPCM tracks. I have many of them and they've played fine on every settop that both myself and my friends own, from the cheapest $50 Apex machine to the most expensive Macintosh transport.

      --


      * As is generally the case, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
    14. Re:DVD-Audio? by nedron · · Score: 2
      " the spec for SETTOP players must(!) play AC-3 to be a DVD player.. No other audio capability is required."

      Actually, maybe you're simply confused (easy enough when you use the DVD Demystified site as your source) by the requirements.

      In the absence of an LPCM track and the presence of a DD track, they player must be able to downconvert the DD track to a two-channel mix on the analog outputs. Onboard multichannel decoding is not required of players.

      And any way you cut it, the player is still required to support the playback of both LPCM and the downconversion of DD at the minimum.

      --


      * As is generally the case, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
    15. Re:DVD-Audio? by macdaddy357 · · Score: 1

      Didn't mama ever tell you, Touch it, and you'll go blind?

      --
      How ya like dat?
  2. Does it make a difference what the RIAA thinks? by G0SP0DAR · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At this point, where everyone with a computer and a CD burner are considered potential thieves, I don't think it changes the light in which anti-piracy advocates view computer users. It couldn't possibly get any worse!

    --


    Calm down, it's *only* ones and zeroes.
    1. Re:Does it make a difference what the RIAA thinks? by MaxVlast · · Score: 2

      Hell, I figure they think everyone with speakers is an audio thief. You're right: the view of the bigwigs is probably in such broad strokes that the details of the technology don't matter at all, just the fact that they know of some shadowy 'threat' on the horizon is bad enough.

      --
      There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
      Max V.
      NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
    2. Re:Does it make a difference what the RIAA thinks? by Directrix1 · · Score: 1

      Well, my question is can I burn my favorite music (dTx Productions) on to one of these puppies and not lose quality.

      --
      Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
    3. Re:Does it make a difference what the RIAA thinks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do you really need a CD burner? There are hundreds of types of removable media, and more people are getting lans and wans, so p2ps and pirated music will eventuall rule the earth. the RIAA should just die out or shut up (preferrably both)

    4. Re:Does it make a difference what the RIAA thinks? by G0SP0DAR · · Score: 1

      ". . . PKZIP won't work to compress a PCM audio file, but it works perfectly on AC-3 files and can reach lossless data compression rates of up to 6:1. . . ." Sounds like a good deal to me.

      --


      Calm down, it's *only* ones and zeroes.
    5. Re:Does it make a difference what the RIAA thinks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, SETI is an optimistic attempt to see how alone we are. God is the joke (at best)

    6. Re:Does it make a difference what the RIAA thinks? by AWhistler · · Score: 1
      God is the only form of extraterrestrial life that we will ever be able to communicate with. SETI is a joke people.
      The first statement is true IMHO. The second statement is false. Communicating with extra-terestrial life is a completely different problem than simply searching for it. Finding out if we are alone or not in the physical galaxy is worthwhile. Therefore, SETI is not a joke.
  3. Cool... by FuzzyMan45 · · Score: 1, Troll

    Whee...just another thing for the MPAA/RIAA/Government to put DRM and copy-protection type things in. Yippee, a DVD player that won't play old-style DVD-Audio, but only new-style. Without CD-R support, or backwards compatibility. I just can't wait.

  4. a paradox... by prisen · · Score: 2, Funny

    ok, so when does DVD flop and movies start coming on 2 CD's, one for video and one for audio? My CD changer becomes my movie player..

    1. Re:a paradox... by mike3411 · · Score: 1

      Erm, the video & audio data on DVD's still take up 4-7gb, so the only way to burn it on to two cd's would be secondary (lossy) encoding, such as DivX or somesuch, which is already widespread. It's nice that there's a good article about this, but DVD rippers have been including AC3 tracks on DivX DVD rips for some time, although generally these rips require special patches or software only available on a computer to play.

      --
      Mod me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
  5. Easier way... by bucklesl · · Score: 1

    I find that the easiest surround sound is a nice pair of Sennheisers.

    No need to fool with encoding and tricking your dvd player!

    --
    help fill in hidden movie endings @ End of the Credits
  6. What? Slashdot Advocates Piracy? by antis0c · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Will this technology usher a new type of online piracy when DVD-Audio and surround sound systems become more commonplace?

    Then we have the comment from chrisd:

    While this is only audio, it is a good step in the right direction.

    Yeah, finding new ways to easily pirate software is a step in the right direction. Wrong. Getting the manufactures and owners of such technology to start believing that not all people are theives and they can allow open standards to exist to allow copying for backups, personal use such as having a copy of said music in my car player; while in my house; or at work is a step in the right direction. All this will do is piss off the RIAA/MPAA, they'll lobby for stricter laws, and we're back here again.

    --

    ..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
    1. Re:What? Slashdot Advocates Piracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, this was my reaction to the story as well.

    2. Re:What? Slashdot Advocates Piracy? by SageLikeFool · · Score: 4, Interesting
      So all we have to do is be completely compliant to their whims and they will give us what we want?

      Sure, this will probably be used for "piracy" as much as any other technology is in this day and age. That doesn't mean it should be buried, and that doesn't mean it won't be legitimately used either. If you want to get rid of every tool and technology that is developed just because it could be used maliciously by somebody, you won't even be left with sticks and stones.

    3. Re:What? Slashdot Advocates Piracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd pay $5 or more a month for this tripe. Who wouldn't?

    4. Re:What? Slashdot Advocates Piracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ......some people are just freaking sick....

      homophobe.

    5. Re:What? Slashdot Advocates Piracy? by jcoy42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Okay, so how is this a new way to easily pirate software?

      Is mixing a 5.1 audio stream, burning it to CD, and listening to it pirating software?

      Tell me what I'm missing here. I don't see how it is pirating or how it is software.

      --
      Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
    6. Re:What? Slashdot Advocates Piracy? by IAmBlakeM · · Score: 1

      Not really, AC3 audio is just audio, and this technique has been around for quite some time. Nandub has been available to interleave and mux AC3 audio with DivX encoded video for quite some time, and no one seems to have cared until now.

    7. Re:What? Slashdot Advocates Piracy? by OrthonormalBasisVect · · Score: 1
      Sorry, I no longer buy that. I have a collection of over 300 dvds, and I'm well sick and tired of low quality pressings that either fail to play the first time or soon afterwards. I am more than willing to pay for the content, but I also feel that once I've paid I should be able to enjoy it. The manufacturers believe I should replace my disks regularly due to their deliberate use of low quality materials. I am a customer yes, but I too am tired of being victimized. If they don't want me to be interested in these technologies, they should not engage in tactics that force me to be. I have no love for spending hours remastering stuff, but it's either that or I effectively can't have it at all.

      Yes, I have tried to go through the normal channels for replacement of bad media. Buying Fox owned x-files through amazon leaves you with no options. My only option is to pay over $100 to replace sets with 2 bad disks.

      So, I think this kind of information is extremely beneficial, in fact even beneficial to that den of thieves calling themselves the entertainment industry. If it weren't for this, I'd have to give up buying completely.

  7. Wow, isn't horribly old news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I think I've been downloading DivX files with AC-3 audio well over a year now. In fact, I remember all the confusion on the 'net when AC3 audio DVDRips started floating around and people had no clue what audio codec to use.

    Hey, news flash...you can also burn MPEG-2 video files to a CD, just like a DVD!

    1. Re:Wow, isn't horribly old news? by fadden · · Score: 1

      This is, in fact, remarkably uninteresting. :-)

      DTS and AC-3 content, when played through an appropriate decoder, comes out sounding like music. There's nothing at all magic about the discs. In theory, you could inadvertently create an audio CD that got recognized as a fancy format, but in practice you'd have to come up with something decidely un-musical to make that happen.

      The real trick to AC-3 and DTS is finding something that's worth storing in AC-3 or DTS. The article talks about mixing your own 5.1 stuff, which is pretty much the only reason you'd want to do this.

  8. Makes a Great Gag Gift by Winnipenguin · · Score: 4, Funny

    From the article:
    Dolby has officially advised me that this CD-AC3 disc should not be used as a master for CD duplication or public distribution since there's no safeguards against someone playing it back in an audio CD player. But it's a great method for making one-off test mixes. I've considered added a standard audio disclaimer on track 1 that says something like "This disc contains Dolby Digital data. Do not play in a standard CD player or speaker damage can result".

    Could you think of a better gift for those you don't love?

  9. Laws anyone? by T-Kir · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Will this technology usher a new type of online piracy when DVD-Audio and surround sound systems become more commonplace?

    Or will it be gagged as being in violation of the DMCA?

    --
    Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
  10. With apologies to Illiad... by The+Pi-Guy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Net geeks
    there's no need to feel guilt
    I said, net geeks
    for the software you built
    I said, net geeks
    cause you're not in the wrong
    there's no need to feel unhappy

    Net geeks
    you can burn a CD
    I said, net geeks
    with your fave MP3s
    you can play them
    in your home or your car
    many ways to take them real far!

    It's fun to violate the D M C A!
    It's fun to violate the D M C A-AY!

    you have everything
    you need to enjoy
    your music with your toys!

    It's fun to violate the D M C A!
    It's fun to violate the D M C A-ay!

    you can archive your tunes!
    you can share over cable!
    you can annoy the record labels!

    1. Re:With apologies to Illiad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Taking legal advice about software licensing issues from Microsoft is like taking airline safety advice from Osama bin L


      That's not a good example... Osama knows a great deal about airline safety.. He just uses it wrong... and fuck him to hell for it!
    2. Re:With apologies to Illiad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the way things are going, the geeks are more likely get the babes...

      - Geeks are more likely to go to jail thanks to DMCA
      - Geeks no longer have job security and will become loser with no job

  11. Sweet! Acid 4.0 is out! 5.1 mixing in it! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2

    Here is the link. Wait like two minutes so I can get my copy.

  12. size matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dvd's are up to 9gb when double sided etc, so how much and what quality music are we talking about? Anyways who the hell rips in ac3 quality anyways?

    1. Re:size matters by (blind)+(idiot) · · Score: 1

      To fit a dvd movie on a cd you'd have to compress it /encode it in such a way that it'd almost be pointles...unless you wanted to spread it out over 6 cd's or so...

    2. Re:size matters by CurMo · · Score: 1

      Have you not heard of DivX ? I wouldn't say it compresses dvd's in such a way that they're pointless...

    3. Re:size matters by (blind)+(idiot) · · Score: 1

      yeah, but how many DVD players have DivX encoding?

    4. Re:size matters by (blind)+(idiot) · · Score: 1

      Oooops. I sort of jumped my guns.
      I was thinking specifically of trying to transfer the DVD video+audio to a cd to where it would play in a DVD player. It wouldn't be a VCD or a DivX, where essentially it'd be a dvd.
      Now going back and re-reading the origial article, and some of the posts I realized that I was way off.
      I use DivX (well, watch) movies all the time.

  13. Copyright Protection by robofunk · · Score: 1

    And for this the RIAA will devise the ultimate copyright solution: The Sharpie Marker.

  14. Oh this is going to be fun! by Stonent1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Go to a friend's house who has an annoyingly loud car stereo that he keeps cranked at 11 all of the time booming some bass. Slip your "Phat bass remix" into his DVD player and show him the good stuff. Then say "you can keep the CD" next thing you know, he slides it into his (clarion/kenwood/eclipse whatever) car stereo that cost more than his car. And blows his eardrums with straight undecoded ac3. Just like he blows your eardrums with his bass while you are in his car.

  15. Re:slow by grant+harris · · Score: 1

    Do they even have two mouse buttons? :p

    --

    I'm never going to achieve Nirvana with my Karma

  16. Re:slow by Gizzmonic · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    Nope, I just got a G4 upgrade baby

    So suck it!

    --
    (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
  17. Does it work on macs? by myov · · Score: 2

    Does anyone know if this works on Macs? At $12 a disc, making test DVD's gets expensive really quickly.

    --
    I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
    1. Re:Does it work on macs? by yroJJory · · Score: 1

      SmartCode Pro - Dolby Digital will make WAV-padded AC3 on a Mac, but you have to use Pro Tools to do it. It's really stupid and the program is difficult to use.

      What I do is run Soft Encode 5.1 Dolby Digital from Sonic Foundry under Virtual PC 5.0.4 (Win 98 SE) and make discs that way.

      But, I stopped bothering, I must admit, because many AC3 decoders don't understand the format. Instead, I create WAV-padded DTS files using SurCode DTS from Minnetonka. They work everytime!

      --
      Jory
    2. Re:Does it work on macs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can get DVD-R's for _way_ less than that. They're $5 a disk from Apple, and for as low as 99 cents each in bulk (e.g. http://store.yahoo.com/cd-recordable-dot-com/dvdrv aluedeals.html).

      So while it's a cool hack that you can write an AC-3 stream to a CD-R and it'll often play, it's not really much cheaper than burning a DVD-R (if you have a DVD-R drive)...

    3. Re:Does it work on macs? by foo12 · · Score: 1

      You know, the SuperDrive does handle DVD-RWs just fine.

    4. Re:Does it work on macs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi,

      Why are you paying $12 per DVD? You can goto www.americal.com and get DVDs in bulk for just over a dollar (white top, or silver top general purpose that will work in your pioneer/apple superdrive)

  18. You can do more than that... by ferrocene · · Score: 5, Informative

    This has been out for over a year, maybe two. Oddly enough, I was just doing this last night. There's several programs that will do this, in fact there's a program that will do this in one easy step as opposed to SoftEncode...

    http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/downloads/besu re .html

    "This program allows a direct conversion from VOB/AC3 to CD, using BeSweet (freeware) and SurCode DTS (for DTS-CDs : commercial-ware)!! Makes AC3-CDs, DTS-CDs and standard CDDA discs. "

    This is way cool. I took my roomate's Dave Matthews DVD, popped it through this program, and out came a burned CD in either DTS-CD, DD5.1, or regular CD. Way cool, and perfectly legal as far as I'm concerned. I'm making a backup and/or transfering the media to a different format.

    And the original article was published here:

    http://www.modernrecording.com/articles/soundav/ li nk46.html

    quite some time ago.

    Better than that, you can burn mini-dvd's on to a CD. There are several programs that will burn the ISO DVD directory structure on to a regular CD. This comes in handy for say, when I took my roomate's NIN DVD in DTS, and extracted the DTS track, and burned that onto a dvd-cd. The DTS track is a perfect 550mb. How cool is that. Also good for burning DD5.1/THX trailers onto a CD to take to the home theater shops to test out their systems. You can get full blown .vob's here:

    http://dvdgsm.free.fr/vob.html
    http://www.digit al-digest.com/dvd/downloads/traile rs.html

    I have my copy with 12 different trailers, including the simpsons THX one. It doesn't work in all players, you need to test them out. :)

    Fun programs to have:
    Surcode DTS encoder
    Sonic Foundry Soft Encode
    Gear Pro CD/DVD burner
    Scenarist NT dvd authoring program (it's a $39,000 program which can be used to make menus like the Matrix DVD)
    vobrator
    DVDDecrypter

    websites to visit:

    doom9.org
    apachez.has.it
    http://tatooine.fortu necity.com/jabba/220/miniDVD. html
    http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/articles/d vd_con vert_minidvd.html

    and of course #pcdvd on efnet.

    --
    Most folk'll never lose a toe, and then again some folk'll...
    1. Re:You can do more than that... by Ryu2 · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately, most standalone DVD players won't play a mini-DVD (eg, DVD on a CD) because they detect the CD media, and assume it's either a audio or video CD, not a DVD.

      But it's certainly playable on any computer though -- much more cheaper than DVD-R for distributing short clips without losing the quality of DVD Video.

      --
      There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
    2. Re:You can do more than that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is way cool. I took my roomate's Dave Matthews DVD, popped it through this program, and out came a burned CD in either DTS-CD, DD5.1, or regular CD. Way cool, and perfectly legal as far as I'm concerned. I'm making a backup and/or transfering the media to a different format.

      I'm curious as to how it can be legal when you have made a backup of a dvd for your personal use, and the original was not owned by you? That doesn't sound legal to me :)

    3. Re:You can do more than that... by Tigris666 · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is way cool. I took my roomate's Dave Matthews DVD, popped it through this program, and out came a burned CD in either DTS-CD, DD5.1, or regular CD. Way cool, and perfectly legal as far as I'm concerned. I'm making a backup and/or transfering the media to a different format.

      I'm curious as to how it can be legal when you have made a backup of a dvd for your personal use, and the original was not owned by you? That doesn't sound legal to me :)

      --
      Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -- Homer J. Simpson
    4. Re:You can do more than that... by ferrocene · · Score: 1

      Are you implying that me and my 2 roomates need to have 3 seperate copies of the matrix in order to watch it legally? Ok, put it this way: I made that backup CD for my roomate, it's not mine. I defer ownership to him :)

      --
      Most folk'll never lose a toe, and then again some folk'll...
    5. Re:You can do more than that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just to be sure you understand: backups are only legit if you make sure that only a single copy is in use at one time.

    6. Re:You can do more than that... by jx100 · · Score: 1

      Well, maybe if he was doing it as a service for his friend and didn't keep the copy for himself, it could be legal.

    7. Re:You can do more than that... by The+Rev · · Score: 2
      I'm making a backup and/or transfering the media to a different format.

      If this were legal, surely MP3 and OGGs of Other people's CDs would also be legal! :-)

    8. Re:You can do more than that... by Ravensfire · · Score: 1

      Nice try at the analogy, but pretty far off.

      You have a copy of the Matrix. Any of you can watch it, but only one group of you can watch it.

      You own one copy of it, you can watch that same copy, alone or as a group.

      With a CD, you own a copy. You can listen to that copy. You can back up that copy, or convert it to a new medium. You can only use one version of that CD.

      If lying to yourself makes your conscience feel better, go ahead. Feel free to do so.

      --
      "But we decide which is right, and which is an illusion"
  19. Mpeg2 is lossy... by Bonker · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Remember that even the MPEG2 format that DVD video vobs are stored in is lossy, although at such a high bitrate that, on a good DVD, it's close to impossible to tell.

    DivX and other Mpeg4 codecs may be unbearably noisy at lower levels you've seen, but when you raise the bitrate up to where a 1:30:00 movie will just fit on a CD-R, it's very nearly indistinguishable from DVD video. This goes double for animation. Many of the anime fansubs that show up on IRC and Usenet are encoded in such a way that a 200mb file is more than high enough quality to tape and share with your friends.

    --
    The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
    1. Re:Mpeg2 is lossy... by Luckster7 · · Score: 1

      > on a good DVD, it's close to impossible to tell.
      It's very easy to tell, the annoying blocky regions around any fast moving action or any dark area is the mpeg. In my opnion, (I used to write for Video Systems magazine) a DVD does not look as good a brand new VHS tape. Now play the tape a dozen times or let it sit a year and this is no longer the case.

      > you raise the bitrate up to where a 1:30:00 movie will just fit on a CD-R, it's very nearly indistinguishable from DVD video.
      1:30 on a disk is the cutoff point to where it starts to look really bad. If a movie is over 1:30 I encode (divx5) it on two disks. The quality is amazing considering an entier movie fits on one or two CD's, but to say it's almost the same as the DVD is just plain wrong. It's watchable, like a beat up video rental VHS tape.

      > This goes double for animation.
      I just tried encoding some episodes of South Park to divx5 and was shocked with the results. The artifacting was much more apparent than normal video, even after I cranked up the quality to fit 45 minutes on a CDR. I finally just gave up and left them in VOB format.

      > a 200mb file is more than high enough quality to tape and share with your friends
      You must not like your friends. Possibly a 20 minute TV episode could look acceptable at this size. What resolution is stuff encoded at? If you shrink this down to web cam resolutions you can fit a lot on a disk, but NTSC video is about 720 x 480 resolution. I think TV is way too low of resolution as it is, I wouldn't want to cut it down any more.

      Transcode and DVDrip are the best Linux tools I've found for doing video encoding. Some people like memcoder which I believe is part of mplayer.

      I thought the topic was DVD audio on CD's, not DVD video on CD's.,,

      Take a trip! www.sendthemtomir.com

      --
      Deuteronomy 13:06-9
  20. surround sound AUDIO? by alienw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    High quality audio is not surround sound. Nobody listens to music on a surround sound rig and expects quality. Surround sound is good for movies, where you don't need good fidelity, but most surround sound systems suck if you're trying to listen to music. Audiophiles don't like subwoofer-satellite systems (because it's a cost-saving compromise that causes lots of problems), and a high-quality surround-sound system with 5 real high-end speakers and amplifiers would be prohibitively expensive ($20,000+). Anything cheaper, and it sounds like crap, because it's low-end.

    Besides, when you're at a concert, you don't sit in the middle of the stage, so the only source of sound is from the front. That would mean that there is exactly no point in recording surround-sound audio CDs. It's a marketing measure, if anything.

    And to the poor shmucks who listen to music on a satellite-subwoofer combo: I hope you don't ever come near a high-end audio system. If you do, you will probably realize that your system totally sucks, and will have to replace at least two of those speakers (and probably the amp). There is quite a bit of very tangible difference. Sort of like the difference between a 128k MP3 and the real uncompressed file.

    1. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An audiophile is a person who listens to equipment and not to music...

    2. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides, when you're at a concert, you don't sit in the middle of the stage, so the only source of sound is from the front.

      You must not attend many live concerts. Sound bounces all over an auditorium and comes from many directions.

    3. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a poor shmuck that is pondering a satellite-subwoofer combo.

      Can you give me some suggestions of a kit worth buying that is good for listening to music with?

    4. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by kmellis · · Score: 2, Funny

      Do you go out of your way to present your opinion and mildly interesting information in the most obnoxious manner possible, or is it a gift?

    5. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by alienw · · Score: 1

      Read the newsgroups. Also read the 'good sound for cheap' site (use google). Don't buy the overpriced surround crap unless you mostly watch movies and don't really care about music quality.

    6. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by alienw · · Score: 1

      It also does that in a room, to some extent. In good auditoriums, there are special sound-absorbing things everywhere to improve the acoustics, though. Echoes don't exactly improve the sound.

    7. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by alienw · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's a gift. But in all seriousness, slashdot is starting to piss me off. For every person who has a clue, there are about a hundred who don't (and are far more vocal). Unfortunately, judging by little stupid remarks at the end of most stories, most of the editors belong to the group that doesn't have a clue.

    8. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ACing because, well I'm being careful.

      There's a whole subscene of people taking old Quadraphonic, C4, Fostex Q8, and Ambisonic records, and remastering them into Dolby AC3. I've only been playing with this for about 4 months now, but this has been around for a bit.

      Yes, yes, they don't sound as good as audiophile equipment, but it's not like my Mcintosh amp supports quad, neh? Besides, digital sucks anyways. (Sorry, couldn't resist the typical high-end audio rant, and it is getting more and more incorrect as processing power increases)

      You should probably note that a lot of the stuff out there in this format is NOT from "live" shows--it is music originally recorded to take advantage of multi-channel recording. This music is DYING due to the increasing rarity of the equipment and the media. Don't underestimate the importance of the historical aspect of such preservation. There's some really neat recordings out there that are being lost as musical artifacts. Sure, they also released these albums as stereo recordings, but the albums were conceptualized for one form of quad or another. (And before you go on about the 70's quad tech being so inferior to the surround of today, realize that much of Dolby's surround sound tech comes out of their acquisition of the original Sansui quad matrix)

      And lastly, I hate that typical stuck-up audiophile attitude. It's kinda like gourmets who attribute social status to fine food; all you are doing is alienating people who don't already agree with you, people who are mostly unimpressed by you, your attitued, or your toys. Who knows what you could have learned from them or taught them had you not pushed them away from something you enjoy. Besides, both music and food are waaaay too important experiences to limit other people's chances to learn to appreciate them better--they're two of the three things I can think of that humans can share that aren't subject to the shackles of semiotics

    9. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I've been to a few concerts (Pink Floyd, Independents, and if I remember right the Stones) where there was a setup at the end of the stadium too.
      I know this is a fact because I waited to take the shrooms....

    10. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by El · · Score: 2
      Echoes don't exactly improve the sound.


      You've obviously never listen to Bach performed on an organ in a good cathedral. I beleive some Jazz musicians also recorded some tracks in a cathedral because of the great acoustics. In some case, echos DO greatly improve the sound, especially if the music was written for that kind of environment in the first place. Oh, and by the way, ask an audio technician what REVERB is, and why they frequently add it to music...

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

    11. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I basically agree with you, but I'm more concerned with the work of the recording engineers. Even when they are well-paid experts with the best equipment, they have a finite amount of time to work on each recording. I think that, in realistic situations, their time is better spent working on only two channels and getting them as good and true as possible.

    12. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      in all seriousness, slashdot is starting to piss me off.

      Odd comment coming from someone with a userid in the #585000 range.

      Hell I'm #412000 and this account is only about year old.

    13. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by mabinogi · · Score: 2

      > Oh, and by the way, ask an audio technician what REVERB is, and why they frequently add it to music...

      Reverb added to music is controlled, the technician can add more or less, or change the type to make it sound how they like, and match it to the style of music.

      Echoes in a concert hall don't work that way....and unless it's been designed extremely well, (which is usualy the case in the good ones) then the echoes will pretty much suck. And even in the quality ones, echoes that sound good with chamber music, probably suck for metal, so the best situation for a general purpose concert venue, is one where there's little or no reverb or echoes from the environment (audiences usualy go a long way to absorbing the reverb anyway), and then have the right effect for the type of music added by the sound guys.

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
    14. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a load of crap as a professional sound engineer I have used many subwoofer systems and they are great, In fact at the concert mentioned there would almost certainly be a 3 way system including subs.

      There would also be many reflections coming from the sides and the rear, creating a surround effect.

      I have 5 JBL Studio monitors and a JBL sub that cost a lot less than his figures and AC3 tracks are far superior in soundscape imaging

      This guy probably believes in monster cable as well.........

    15. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by LinuxGeek · · Score: 1
      in all seriousness, slashdot is starting to piss me off.

      Odd comment coming from someone with a userid in the #585000 range.

      Hell I'm #412000 and this account is only about year old.

      Just imagine how pissed I am by now.. 8^D
      --

      Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
    16. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The echos in the main hall of Reading's student union (formerly a school gym, and since renovated) while I worked there, had a flat brick wall at the rear of the hall. The result was that if you were listening to something of around 100bpm and stood at the front of the hall then the echo from the back was exactly half a beat out (and pretty much un-attenuated) so it sounded just like a 200bpm record.

      Those were the days.

    17. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by radish · · Score: 2

      Besides, when you're at a concert, you don't sit in the middle of the stage, so the only source of sound is from the front. That would mean that there is exactly no point in recording surround-sound audio CDs. It's a marketing measure, if anything.

      IF (and it's a big if) the only point of your recording is to try to mimic a traditional concert hall scenario. Which, to be quite honest, is ignoring 95% of the recorded music in the world (and 99.9% of that which I listen to).

      I have a surround setup at home, no it's not audiophile quality, but it ain't no sub & satellite combo either, let's call it a happy medium. Running it in 2 channel with a good recording has noticably better clarity and tone, as would be expected, particularly as the best speakers are the front mains. But, I find myself listening to most stuff with DPL-II switced on. Why? Well on all CDs it brings in the centre speaker, which re-enforces the sound stage and evens it out. It also pulls the stage forward towards the listener, and improves the imagery no end. And on many CDs I have, you get real surround effects (I belive they're recorded with out of phase stuff for DPL). Sure it's not much good for orchestral stuff, but pop on (for instance) the new Kosheen album and you get amazing effects as pads travel up the room straight past you and vocals appear all over the place. When you look to music to provide an exciting listening experience (rather than simply an excuse to spend $$$ on getting that last 0.01% of performance) there's no beating it.

      And yes I have heard a $$$$ top end system, my parents have one, but I wouldn't trade it for mine. There's sounds great with the music they listen to, but to be honest just doesn't cut it for dance or pretty much anything non-acoustic. Horses for courses ;-)

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    18. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by k4m3 · · Score: 1
      when you're at a concert, you don't sit in the middle of the stage, so the only source of sound is from the front

      You mean you go in concert halls with strictly no reverberation ? Strange.

    19. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by nathanh · · Score: 2
      Besides, when you're at a concert, you don't sit in the middle of the stage, so the only source of sound is from the front. That would mean that there is exactly no point in recording surround-sound audio CDs. It's a marketing measure, if anything.

      What a load of tripe. When you sit in a concert - and I mean a real concert - you hear echoes from every direction. The music most definitely does surround you. This is despite best efforts to dampen echoes with angled walls and ceilings. It still echoes. You still get a unique audio characteristic from the room.

      And if you don't believe this then why does an open air concert sound different to a hall concert, and different again to chamber music, and different again to studio music. The room plays a huge part in "processing" the source.

      If you are lucky enough to have a concert hall and a cathedral and a studio with a hifi in each then perhaps stereo is sufficient. The rest of us need a processor and multiple speakers to give us the illusion of multiple environments because we can only afford one room and one hifi.

    20. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, that still doesnt mean your original post was plain wrongo!
      DVD-A allows six channel 24/96 audio. There are already many "audiophile" discs with six channel sound. These are not "gee-whiz" remixes of stereo material. The surrond channels on these discs are used for sublte room-reverbation recorded on the spot.
      So, surround sound CAN be high quality.
      If you read ANY high-end mag you would know about this.

      But quality sorround sound is, as you point out, really really expensive.

    21. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, all high-end people do all day is turn people from listening to music all together.
      In fact, they are directly responsible for the decline in cd sales.

    22. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by TheTomcat · · Score: 2

      a perfect example (flash warning).

      S

    23. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by LetterJ · · Score: 1

      Some of us are nearly ready to go postal.

    24. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      I have to add that I also listen to the odd CD in pro-logic (also a happy medium, mid-range hi-fi gear, all speakers the same etc), and I agree there are some CDs that seem to be made for it, there a definite effects that come out the rears only. Because of the way pro-logic works, it's actually similar to how the real world works. On a test DVD I have, Video Essentials, it shows how diffused sound lacks direction. This diffused sound is what pro-logic decoders extract and divert to the rears.

      On the other hand, I've found a number of CDs play terrible on pro-logic.

      I've also got a couple of music DVDs that use multichannel sound. They are great to listen too, if the music is recorded that way, it really amazes.

    25. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by festers · · Score: 1

      What a thoroughly unhelpful post. When presented with the chance to provide real information instead of elitist bad-mouthing, you fail miserably. Do you even know anything about the things in discussion, or are you just karma whoring?

      --


      -------
      "Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
    26. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by kmellis · · Score: 2
      (offtopic; response to your sig)

      I like the ossblacksheep thing. It's been years since I looked at Cygwin - I found it pretty frustrating at the time. I found David Korn's "U/Win" much mre complete and integrated. I even bought the commercial product. Has Cygwin closer to parity with U/Win now?

    27. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never tried U/Win, but I will say that cygwin is anything but frustrating. The package selection tool (the setup.exe you download from cygwin) is extremely easy to use, and there are many good packages ported (I mainly use it for bash, so I can script things, but I've put postgresql on our demo boxes). For my needs I wouldn't buy a commercial package, but you may need packages that aren't there yet.

    28. Re:surround sound AUDIO? by mrscorpio · · Score: 1

      You get reverberation from the room your stereo setup is in, just like in the concert hall :)

      So it's your choice...not quite as good reverb in your room (stereo) or simulated reverb (surround sound).

      I'll take slightly poorer real thing any day.

      Chris

  21. How about just plain.. by Utopia · · Score: 1

    ..encoding into ogg format and burning it.
    Doesn't ogg support multiple channels ?
    What am I missing ?

    1. Re:How about just plain.. by lostchicken · · Score: 3, Informative

      Vorbis (ogg) makes a binary data stream. AC3 makes an encoded sound. That sound comes out of any system that can record and playback sound (standard compact disc, LaserDisc, etc.), and if that sound ends up in an AC3 surround processor, you get 5.1 music out.

      You can put an AC3 disc into a CD player, and play it straight out (not recommended, hard on speakers). All you'll hear are sounds like a modem chatting.

      --
      -twb
    2. Re:How about just plain.. by gabvalois · · Score: 1

      Why is it hard on speakers ? it's just noise. Is it only hard on your ears ?

    3. Re:How about just plain.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just playing loud music through a speaker can damage it. Usually the main effect is to make higher frequencies quieter, which is actually an effect some people want.

    4. Re:How about just plain.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's just noise, but it is noise at the loudest volume that can be represented on a CD. If you have your volume too high (listening to a soft CD before or something), you can blow out your speakers because of the loudness.

    5. Re:How about just plain.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it hard on speakers?

      Because random data isn't a natural waveform. You'll be asking the speaker coils to jump around randomly rather than trying to flow and produce a (mostly smooth) waveform output. If you'll forgive the analogy, it's the difference between smoothly guiding your car around a corner or yanking the wheel back and forth repeatedly - not what it was really designed to do, and you're likely to break something after a while.

  22. More from http://www.doom9.org by Codeala · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.doom9.org contains lots of information and tools to work with AC3 plus DVD, MP3 etc. The tools are mainly for expert users as they are mostly commandline only. Althought some of them come with GUI wrappers, I am not sure if they are much help as they are perfect examples of GUI from hell (no offends!). They will get the job done if you are willing to commit quite a bit of time.

    Of course if you don't have a good decoder/speakers don't waste your time on AC3.

    --

    Codeala - Just another mindless drone
  23. Re:Sweet! Acid 4.0 is out! 5.1 mixing in it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Two minutes from now the crack will be out.

  24. Please don't use their new-speak... by Sanity · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...unless you really believe that copying some bits is really the equivolent of boarding a ship, raping and killing those on-board, stealing what is left, then burning the ship and the bodies of those you have murdered.

    If you want to refer to violation of copyright law, then please call it what it is.

  25. WAV-padded AC-3 not reliable by yroJJory · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've done a considerable amount of testing 5.1 formats on CD-R and DVD-R (and variations). Yes, AC3 can be WAV-padded to look like a PCM audio file and subsequently put onto a red book CD-DA disc, but I've found that most older AC3 decoders don't understand the reverse bit-order format.

    On the flip side, WAV-padded DTS does work on all DTS decoders, as it was included in the format from the beginning.

    Additionally, DTS is a better format because it is fixed-rate 4:1 compression, as opposed to AC3's variable 12:1.

    --
    Jory
    1. Re:WAV-padded AC-3 not reliable by benwaggoner · · Score: 2

      The compression rate isn't the key. Saying 4:1 is better than 12:1 is like saying that IMA audio compression is better than AAC, which it manifestly isn't.

      While a case can be made that DTS can be better than AC-3 in some cases (although way too many of the cited comparisons looked at 384 AC-3, where 448 is now standard for high-end discs), the fact that it takes up so much more space on the disc means that in many cases the video quality will need to be degraded to compensate.

      While DTS might have a slight edge in terms of maximum quality, AC-3 has a huge advantage in terms of compression efficiency, which means it wins is places where file size counts significantly.

    2. Re:WAV-padded AC-3 not reliable by yroJJory · · Score: 1

      I realize that 4:1 versus 12:1 isn't the issue, although that, coupled with VBR for AC3, makes DTS win out considerably fast for quality.

      The way AC3's codec works, the center channel has priority over all other channels, followed by the left & right. If you add a subwoofer, your surrounds suffer greatly.

      DTS' codec gives equal imporance to all channels, which is why it sounds better.

      Second, we're discussing purely audio-based solutions right now. I understand that DTS-encoded media takes up considerably more space than AC3, but on a CD of music, and especially a DVD, I'm not worried about how much space I've got.

      --
      Jory
    3. Re:WAV-padded AC-3 not reliable by iainl · · Score: 1

      Firstly, lets be honest here. Video quality gets degraded far more by the desire to pander to the lowest idiot who decides which film to buy by counting the number of extra features on the back of the box than the inclusion of a half-bitrate DTS track. Sony's MPEG2 encoder may be renowned for adding far too much edge enhancement, causing it to be a waste of time in practice, but the theory of Superbit is a good one.

      Anyway, with that out of the way, can you please name me a single disc in existence (apart from known mistakes like the +3dB surrounds on the first Jurassic Park pressing, or the abysmal job that Universal made when unsupervised of their conversion for the first DVD release of the same film, as they used the wrong master) where the Dolby track (at any bitrate) sounds better than the DTS track (at any bitrate), because I've not heard one. I fully admit that in some cases (Saving Private Ryan, The Haunting) it would appear that a superior mix is used for the DTS master, but I've never heard DTS do a worse job, and it usually does a better one.

      You're right, DD is smaller; I just question the number of cases where that really does matter.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
  26. Re:Yeks! by Simon+Cowell · · Score: 1

    I found this first post to be absolutely dreadful. There are many other first posters in this competition who are better than you, and I have two words for you: Miami Karaoke. I don't believe you have any place in this competition, and that's all I have to say about it.

  27. A primer on surround - Texas Style! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Wendy Carlos was into surround back in 'the day'. Here is a link detailing all the different 'surrounds' there are. A good read on a cool site.

    OT: Just say "Texas Style!" after everything you say. It's fun, and it confuses the hell out of people. Texas Style!

    1. Re:A primer on surround - Texas Style! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great Link! Someone needs to mod this up...Texas Style!!!

  28. passthrough player by gabvalois · · Score: 1

    Does anyone know an audio player that can play wav files with the "spdif passthrough" some software dvd player have ? It would be interresting to listen to thoses 5.1 files on a sound blaster live without having to buy a CD player with spdif output.

    1. Re:passthrough player by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just use... Creative Labs Software Pack! It works for me and my SBLive Platinum 5.1. DTS output is possible too but maybe my CPU is not fast enough because I encounter sound drops.

      But I'm a bit surprised that someone just "discovered" that you can burn AC3 or DTS on a CD-R 'cause I've been doing this for more than 3 years. Basically you can use "AC3 De/Encode" generating 48 KHz wav file and burn them with (at least) Sound Forge CD Architect.

      My 2cts,
      Julien

  29. Quit teasing me! by Skidmarq · · Score: 1

    I can't take it anymore! When's someone gonna prove all this "enough for the entire Library of Congress" crap, and just give me the friggin' Library of Congress on some kind of rediculously itty-bitty medium?

    --

    "I don't think I ain't" -Thompson's Corollary to Descartes

    1. Re:Quit teasing me! by Skidmarq · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Shit, wrong story. Sorry 'bout that. Bed time for Scotty...

      --

      "I don't think I ain't" -Thompson's Corollary to Descartes

  30. This will really twist your head... by Mulletproof · · Score: 2

    "This interesting article shows how it is possible to burn AC-3 audio onto a normal CD-R. Will this technology usher a new type of online piracy when DVD-Audio and surround sound systems become more commonplace?"

    Ok, how many DVDs do you have in your library? You own them, right? For the most part, this isn't really disputed. Those DVD have all the music associated with the movie. In effect, I'd like to argue that you own the soundtrack to that movie. So since I effectively own the music to the movie on DVD, I should be able to download it off the internet without violating any copyrights. Unless the version were vastly different from the one I already paid for on DVD (and yes, I did pay for every track used in the movie, since all that production cost is wrapped up in the price of the DVD), there is no reason why I should have to pay for a totally seperate audio CD I paid for the music and movie once, and now I have to pay just as much for only the music? How does this make sense again? Don't worry, it's just how they expect you to pay full price when you switch to a new format even though you already have the song in a previous format. Why am I paying for another licence when I should only be paying for the price of the new media itself? Because they are just as big a pirate as they claim we are.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
    1. Re:This will really twist your head... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, no. In the movie, the music is generally edited so it doesn't last too long, so they skip verses and you don't hear the entire song.

  31. Ipod damnit! by Chuqmystr · · Score: 1

    I can't wait for iPod support of AC-3 so that I can go about wearing two pairs of headphones and looking like a total jackass. Oh, wait, I don't need my 'pod for that. Nevermind, move along, nothing to see here.

    1. Re:Ipod damnit! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's TRUE! You do look like a total jackass!

    2. Re:Ipod damnit! by Chuqmystr · · Score: 1

      BWaaaahahaaa! THX dude, that made my otherwise rotten fucking day.

    3. Re:Ipod damnit! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2

      Happy to be of service. :)

  32. Just had to... by Mulletproof · · Score: 1

    I have to comment on how bad that joke is... Texas Style bad. Ok, I really just had to use it in a sentance for myself... Texas Style. Um... Uhh..

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
  33. Mastering DVDs on CD-R by Animats · · Score: 2
    I'm more interested in putting video on CD-R for play in standard DVD players. I just got the Premiere 6.5 upgrade yesterday (it's finally shipping), which, I think, can author those things.

    Obviously you can't get that many minutes of video on a CD with reasonable compression, but that's OK. They're a useful way of shipping little video clips and demo reels around. I want to put my own computer animation demos on them, rather than having VHS tapes duplicated in bulk.

    I know, not all DVD players will play them. Anybody have a current list of which ones will?

    1. Re:Mastering DVDs on CD-R by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      You can put DVD content on a CD, no problem. Just master your 'dvd' and burn it to a CD with a UDF filesystem. Playing it back is another issue.

      Most dvd players can playback VCD and SVCD, the latter having the higher bitrate, and being in MPEG-2. Thing is, the max bitrate of SVCD is about 300KB, in keeping with a 2x CD speed. (VCD have a fixed bitrate of 150 - single speed CD)

      DVD encoded video has a much higher bitrate (variable, but high), and to stream that data off a CD would require at least a 12x CLV drive.

      Most consumer level DVD players are designed to only spin 2x max, and while their decoders could give a crap where the MPEG2 stream comes from, the drive just cant spin a CD fast enough to make it work.
      There are a few exceptions. And there are such animals as XVCD/XSVCD, which are just VCDS/SVCDS with nonstandard (higher) bitrates. Your PC can handle this stuff, most players cant for the simple reason I outlined above.

      Its not a conspiracy. Its a cost thing, theres just no need for a higher-end drive in yer set-top dvd player.

      Besides, you're lucky to get 15 minutes of DVD quality video on a CD.. Stick with yer VCD and DivX pirac^H^H^H backups.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:Mastering DVDs on CD-R by Com2Kid · · Score: 2

      They are called Mini-DVDs, do a search for them on google.

      http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/articles/odedi a_ minidvd.html

      Doom9's guide to MiniDVDs

      There is a DVD-Player compatibility list around someplace. . . .

      Oh fuuuck man, even Ulead's consumer software now days makes MiniDVDs!!!! cruddoooo!

      VCDhelp.com of course has the compatibility information, as per usual.

      Here

      Yeesh.

    3. Re:Mastering DVDs on CD-R by Animats · · Score: 2
      Besides, you're lucky to get 15 minutes of DVD quality video on a CD.. Stick with yer VCD and DivX pirac^H^H^H backups.

      Some of us can actually create our own content.

      Premiere 6.5 is shipping with something called "DVDit! 2.5 LE", one of those horrid "consumer" apps with a full-screen interface and stupid "themes". This supposedly can author MiniDVD disks, which they call "cDVD". We'll see how well this works.

    4. Re:Mastering DVDs on CD-R by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides, you're lucky to get 15 minutes of DVD quality video on a CD..

      Fifteen minutes of Jenna Jameson does me just fine.

    5. Re:Mastering DVDs on CD-R by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I tried a version of DVDit once. It will only author proprietary DVD media that can only be played on a PC with a special player you include on the media.

  34. Glad to help. by Mulletproof · · Score: 0

    It's called "Bondo". Have a blast... Texas Style!! Hmmm.. I gotta stop that.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
  35. Works on many ordinary CD players too by Namarrgon · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Not only can you burn surround AC-3 or DTS audio onto a standard CD-R, you may not even need a DVD player to play it back :-)


    If you have a CD player with a digital output, and that is connected to a surround-decoding amplifier, chances are that'll play it back just fine. I burned a CD with various bitrate AC-3 tracks mixed with DTS tracks (CD-Text too), and stuck it in my 300-disc Sony CD jukebox. The signal was piped into my Yamaha surround receiver, and played it back perfectly - even scrolled the filenames by on the CD player's display. Very cool, listening to surround sound from a standard CD player.


    That got me thinking - perhaps I could encode all my CDs down to 192 Kbps 2-channel AC-3 files, and squeeze much more music onto each CD. Load up the jukebox & get 7 weeks of uninterrupted audio...


    'Cept it didn't work, of course - in order to play back on a standard CD player, the compressed AC-3 file has to be padded out to ordinary redbook audio rates - it takes the same amount of disc space. Still only ~80 minutes of audio, regardless of encoding.


    Never mind - I'll encode my whole MP3 collection into AC-3 files, then burn a standard DVD (with still images & a lot of music) on my nifty DVD+RW drive. I can still fit many hundreds of hours on a single disc that way. Too bad I don't have a jukebox DVD player...


    And, of course, I can still rip my Luc Besson - Atlantis DVD's soundtrack onto a DTS surround CD, and replace the humble 2-channel CD soundtrack I have in the jukebox with full 5.1 audio :-)

    --
    Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    1. Re:Works on many ordinary CD players too by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 3, Informative

      Never mind - I'll encode my whole MP3 collection into AC-3 files ...

      Uhh.. many DVD players can play MP3s on a data disk just fine. Why recompress them?

    2. Re:Works on many ordinary CD players too by iainl · · Score: 1

      "And, of course, I can still rip my Luc Besson - Atlantis DVD's soundtrack"

      Where is Atlantis available on DVD? I'd guess Australia from your .au email, but then I know that you guys are even more keen than us Brits on importing. I'd rather like to replace my (admittedly widescreen, so not too bad) VHS tape.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
    3. Re:Works on many ordinary CD players too by Namarrgon · · Score: 2
      Because most of those DVD players can only play MP3s on a CD-R - they don't even check for MP3s if it's a DVD.

      Also because if it's in AC-3, it works in any DVD player, not just some.

      And finally, because then I can give it my own navigation system, album art etc, rather than relying on the DVD player's navigator (which, on an Apex AD-600, is pretty bad).

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    4. Re:Works on many ordinary CD players too by Namarrgon · · Score: 2
      Got mine from Germany.

      Been looking for years - I knew there used to be a Region 2 disc ages back, but I never could find one for sale. Then they went & re-released it :-)

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    5. Re:Works on many ordinary CD players too by iainl · · Score: 2

      Thanks muchly. Amazon.de now have my order.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
  36. Re:Sweet! Acid 4.0 is out! 5.1 mixing in it! by teamhasnoi · · Score: 2

    You might want to try Robitussin. Or peyote.

  37. Forgot to mention by Mulletproof · · Score: 1

    I just bought this Green Laser Pointer at Think Geek. Now I anxiously await the moment during which I can trump the unenlightened and their pitiful red lasers that can't be seen for nearly 2 miles like my superior green one. Thank you. You may mod me down now ^__^

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
  38. Actually, you are the "new-speak"er here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    ...unless you really believe that copying some bits is really the equivolent of boarding a ship, raping and killing those on-board, stealing what is left, then burning the ship and the bodies of those you have murdered.

    When I first read this argument on the FSF website, I was quite taken by it. Since then, I have learned that it is quite mistaken.

    The word "piracy" has been applied to plagiarism and copyright violation for over two hundred years. Edward Gibbon uses it in this sense in his Memoirs of My Life, first published in 1796:
    I am at a loss how to describe the success of the work, without betraying the vanity of the writer. The first impression was exhausted in a few days; a second and third edition were scarcely adequate to the demand; and the bookseller's property was twice invaded by the pirates of Dublin. My book was on every table, and almost on every toilette.
    Please allow me humbly to suggest that, when a meaning has been in common usage for hundreds years, it is the people who try to remove this meaning that are guilty of revising the English language for their own purposes.
    1. Re:Actually, you are the "new-speak"er here... by Gumshoe · · Score: 3, Informative
      The word "piracy" has been applied to plagiarism and copyright violation for over two hundred years. Edward Gibbon uses it in this sense in his Memoirs of My Life, first published in 1796:

      I am at a loss how to describe the success of the work, without betraying the vanity of the writer. The first impression was exhausted in a few days; a second and third edition were scarcely adequate to the demand; and the bookseller's property was twice invaded by the pirates of Dublin. My book was on every table, and almost on every toilette.


      Please allow me humbly to suggest that, when a meaning has been in common usage for hundreds years, it is the people who try to remove this meaning that are guilty of revising the English language for their own purposes.


      Etymologically, you are absolutely correct. However, the modern meaning of the word "piracy" (when used in this context) refers to actions that aren't strictly copyright violations. For example circumnavigating region encoding on DVDs is covered by fair use rights and is thus not a "copyright violation" but is "piracy" none-the-less.

      It seems that it is the RIAA's intention to criminilise (in the minds of the public as well as the government) actions that would otherwise not be considered "crimes" if "copyright violation" was used in favour of "piracy". As mentioned by Sanity in the original post, this is literally new-speak.
  39. www.vcdhelp.com by Spazholio · · Score: 0

    Despite what the title says, it's not restricted to just VCD information. It has a LOT of information about damn near any DVD player out on the market now. Has a section that compares which DVD players can do what. Might be worth a look.

  40. VCD or MiniDVD? by Arnold_Crenshaw · · Score: 0

    I'm not sure he was talking about VCD. Isn't "MiniDVD" something different? It's supposed to be DVD quality for 18 minutes or so. Where VCD is longer, but has poorer quality.

  41. slashdot posters show their true colours by stratjakt · · Score: 1

    "..Will this technology usher a new type of online piracy when DVD-Audio and surround sound systems become more commonplace?" While this is only audio, it is a good step in the right direction

    Yeah, new types of piracy is the 'right' direction, alright. Bet you cant wait to load up yer Gene6 ftps and hop onto irc with yer warez buddies. Too bad it wasnt video too, huh?

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  42. encoded sound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Huh? You have a very wacked-out idea of the way computers work with sound. Let me clear this up for you: Ogg is a binary data stream. AC3 is also a binary data stream. In fact every digital audio format ever invented is a binary data stream (as in, a long string of the numbers 0 and 1 in a particular order). AC3 is encoded sound. Ogg is also encoded sound, it is just encoded in a different incompatible way. AC3 and Ogg are different ways of encoding sound into binary data streams. The difference between AC3 and Ogg is that some consumer audio equipment can decode AC3 into sounds, but no consumer audio equipment is equipped to handle Ogg (though it could be, no reason why not). You could burn Ogg onto a CD and put it into your CD player and get static out too. That just means that the CD player is misunderstanding the audio encoding.

  43. The article talks about totally different use... by iamacat · · Score: 1

    ... which is saving money for the artists by letting them distributed high-quality samples of their music on a cheap CD(-R,-RW). An average consumer can use the same method to make remixes of their Audio DVDs. As for pirates, they generally don't care that much about top quality, so anyway they won't go and buy an Audio DVD and get an MP3. If someone just released every song as a 32MHz/Mono MP3, sales would go way up because non-pirates will discover and buy what they like and pirates wouldn't bother making higher quality tracks easily available.

  44. Sitting in the middle of the 'stage'. by pompomtom · · Score: 1

    Besides, when you're at a concert, you don't sit in the middle of the stage, so the only source of sound is from the front.

    Not everyone sits at concerts.

    The first thing I thought about when reading this was setting up a 5 channel dance party. I'm not sure what you'd do for mixers and varispeed decks though. I know a bloke who's done performances on eight speakers, with the audience in the middle, but he had to write his own software for it.

    --

    Buckets,

    pompomtom

    "There's an exception to every rule. Except for some rules"
  45. xvid, divx these are not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wow are you out of touch

    I can compress most 1.5 hour movies onto 1 cd and you wouldnt know the difference on a regular tv.

    it takes some work, but its possible

  46. Burning DVDs is not THAT expensive by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 3, Funny

    Right now, a DVD mastering station is about as expensive as CD-R recorders were 5 years ago. That is, they cost ten's of thousands of dollars for the hardware and software.

    I guess this guy hasn't heard of the iMac.

    1. Re:Burning DVDs is not THAT expensive by foo12 · · Score: 1

      You can't make a master off that disc and, furthermore, a "mastering station" isn't just an encoder, recording software, and a drive.

    2. Re:Burning DVDs is not THAT expensive by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 2

      But if you just want to listen to it or show it to your friends (as the article says), a DVD burner and appropriate software is all you need.

    3. Re:Burning DVDs is not THAT expensive by Lucky_Sal_ · · Score: 1

      According to the article, you don't need a DVD burner, the AC-3 audio is on a CD-RW disc that can be played in most consumer DVD players.

      The expensive part was the software AC-3 encoder at somewhere under a thousand dollars.

    4. Re:Burning DVDs is not THAT expensive by djupedal · · Score: 0

      The goal of the so called article is to push sales of outdated plug-ins. Note they stopped updates of their mac related stuf....they know that their tools are not really that advanced in light of being able to make DVD's easily.

    5. Re:Burning DVDs is not THAT expensive by djupedal · · Score: 0

      But if you _do_ have a DVD burner, you don't need this article. Many of us do, and that's why this article seems to weak.

    6. Re:Burning DVDs is not THAT expensive by Lucky_Sal_ · · Score: 1

      Of course you can burn files to a DVD, but can you mix audio tracks in 5.1 surround sound and encode those tracks with your DVD burning software? I thought not. This is for people who need to make a test mix of Dolby 5.1 surround audio in a way that is cheaper than a multi-thousand dollar DVD mastering system.

    7. Re:Burning DVDs is not THAT expensive by krouic · · Score: 1

      I guess you did not notice this article was written three years ago.

  47. Re:slow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's easy to parrot the spec. sheet, but obviously you've never been down to the metal with PPC assembly.

    Take the racial slurs back with you to the trailer park.

  48. Re:Can you imagine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no, i tried and i got a headache

  49. DVD-Audio != AC3 by ubergeek · · Score: 2, Informative
    All DVD-Audio discs must contain an uncompressed or MLP-compressed LPCM version of the DVD-Audio portion of the program. For further flexibility and added compatibility with existing DVD-Video players, DVD-Audio discs may also include video programs with Dolby Digital, DTS, and/or LPCM tracks.
    -- Pohlmann, Principles of Digital Audio, Fourth Edition
    LPCM (Linear Pulse Code Modulation)and MLP compressed LPCM allow for a variety of word sizes and sample rates. But AC3 != DVD-Audio. As the root said, there may be AC3 (or DTS, et cetera) tracks included on a DVD-A disc, but those are not 'DVD-Audio tracks'. They are included for "added compatibility with existing DVD-Video players".
    1. Re:DVD-Audio != AC3 by _damnit_ · · Score: 1

      At the risk of appearing uninformed (in this case I am), will MLP compressed LPCM require a new decoder in A/V receivers or will the DVD-Audio players have to convert to a known format? I only ask because I was just getting comfortable/bored with my present receiver. I haven't bothered to keep up with these formats. I spent the last 2 years boning-up on HDTV issues and am enjoying the 55 inch 1080i goodness as I type. (PS. DiscoveryHD rocks!) Any concise links would be good as well.

      You time is appreciated,

      --


      _damnit_

      It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
    2. Re:DVD-Audio != AC3 by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 2

      Most SACD/DVD-A players only have analog out and have a built in decoder.

      The few DVD-A players that I have seen that have had S/PDIF outs would only output AC-3, DTS, or PCM.

      I don't think there is a spec describing the proper way to put MLP compressed LPCM on the wire, so no decoders support it, and no players output it.

      I have seen DVD players that have S/PDIFs that do 2 channel 192kHz at 24-bit PCM. That is enough bandwidth. But there isn't a spec for putting the multichannel data on the wire, so no decoders have it implimented yet, and player don't output it.

    3. Re:DVD-Audio != AC3 by ubergeek · · Score: 1

      At this point, almost every DVD-A capable player outputs analog only. Unless you consider a down-converted 44.1/48kHz 16-bit stereo PCM bitstream to be DVD-Audio. There are a couple of decks that output a proprietary bitstream that can only be decoded in a receiver from the same company.
      Fortunately, a standard has been finalized by the DVD Forum. It uses Firewire (aka IEEE 1394) to transmit full-resolution and sample rate data to the decoder of your choice. Here is a decent write-up on the new standard.
      My advice? Hold off on any new purchases until we start to see a good selection of products that support the new standard. And for the love of god, don't buy one of the proprietary products.

  50. 5.1 audio samples from Swedish radio by eima · · Score: 1

    This is old stuff. Even the swedish national radio has done this for more than a year. You can find some of their programs in both DTS and DD at this location: 5.1 CD audio samples

  51. Two drives by AndyChrist · · Score: 1

    So play the audio off of one drive and the video off another. Would it be hard or impossible to synch the two?

    1. Re:Two drives by ImaLamer · · Score: 2

      Ever watched the Wizard of Oz and listened to Dark Side of The Moon?

      Just synch the too up before you drop ;-)

    2. Re:Two drives by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      This is what dts does theatrically; the soundtrack is on CD, and is synced with the film going through the projector.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  52. mutch better guide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.apachez.net/purpleman/dtscd.html

  53. Piracy and DVD-Audio by frambris · · Score: 1

    I have thought about how the future will handle DVD-Audio streams.

    It took a while of awkward solutionds before we easily could make a copy of a DVD-Video. Merely because the encryption is lame. From what I've read the creators of DVD-Audio have learned (or adapted in Borg terms) and the encryption used in DVD-Audio disks are much heavier and thus to be able to rip the stream one would have to get the keys out of the disk much like a standalone player does because brute-forcing a DVD-audio with todays computers would take too long and the creators know it.

    So I think when someone has made effort to actually read DVD Audio-discs in all it's gallore when the keys are found they will probably be published on hackers sites.

    But noone can tell until we are here. Hopefully the DVD audio discs will be priced like todays music CDs and ordinary people can build a collection of original legal DVD audio discs. Who would prefer to have about two songs per CD instead everything on one disc.

    I haven't tried DVD audio discs yet but I hope that they play just like a CD audio disc and not like a DVD video disk with menus and stuff like that because when I want to play music I just want to throw the disc in an listen, not fiddle around with FBI warnings, menus and stuff like that.

  54. Agreed -NT- by fateswarm · · Score: 1

    nt

  55. Re:WHY WOULD YOU SLIP YOUR PHAT DICK IN A DVD PLAY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sex = good. sex with friends = even better. dicks are good too. if you're straight, pretend it's your own dick.

  56. True 3D audio for music - Ambisonics by XNormal · · Score: 2

    Most 5.1 channel mixes are done using simple pairwise panning between two adjacent speakers to place the sound sources around you. This may be OK for movie effects but not for capturing the spatial nuances of a recording venue.

    Ambisonics is a true 3D audio recording format. It is composed of 4 components: X, Y, Z and W that may be captured by the Soundfield Microphone or synthesized by audio ray tracing of the virtual venue.

    The four components of the Ambisonics B format are a mathematical decomposition of the 3D sound wavefront at a point in space and are not directly related to any particular speaker placement. It may be decoded using simple linear operations into any speaker configuration. The 3D fidelity of the playback will depend on the number and placement of the speakers.

    Note that 5.1 audio is still just 2D. The equivalent Ambisonics format would require only the W, X and Y components. With an additional top speaker you could feel the height of the concert hall in an Ambisonics recording.

    One of the problems with Ambisonics is the chicken-and-egg problem - lack of enough media and playback equipment.

    The significance of this is that AC3 on CD-R could let more people experiment with Ambisonics - the W, X and Y channels will be pre-decoded to a typical 5.1 speaker placement configuration. The AC3 should probably be recorded at the maximum quality setting of 640kbps. The resulting disk can be played back on any home theater system.

    The Z channel can be somehow also stored on the disk so an Ambisonics-aware decoder could get full 3D audio. 3 of the 5 channels can be linearly combined to get back the W, X and Y channel and together with the Z channel you can decode it to any speaker configuration.

    There is one particular speaker configuration that makes Ambisonics much easier to understand: imagine 8 speakers at the points of a cube. The W channel is fed to all speakers in the same polarity. The X channel is fed to the 4 right speakers with positive polarity and 4 left speakers with negative polarity. The Y channel is fed to the 4 front speakers with positive polarity and 4 back speakers with negative polarity. By now you can probably guess how the Z channel is connected.

    --
    Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
  57. (OT) Yes it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's not a good example

    Yes it is. Read on:

    Osama knows a great deal about airline safety.. He just uses it wrong... and fuck him to hell for it!

    Likewise, Billy knows a great deal about software licensing.. He just uses it wrong... and fuck him to hell for it!


    Is it possible for an Offtopic moderation to be metamoderated as Redundant, given the comment's title?
  58. (OT) Don't be fooled by old "DIVX" players by yerricde · · Score: 1

    but how many DVD players have DivX encoding?

    No current DVD players have MPEG-4 support, not even early DVD players from Circuit City called "DIVX". The early "DIVX" referred to a pay-per-view program that has since been terminated.

    To get a DVD player with MPEG-4 support, buy a Dell laptop computer (no, a fellow can't currently build his own laptop to my knowledge) and download and install the DivX codec. Then connect its S-Video and headphone outputs to a regular TV, or connect its VGA and headphone outputs to a compatible HDTV.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  59. Atlantis in Japan by Jammer@CMH · · Score: 1
    I bought mine from Japan. It's NTSC, region 2, and I like it.

    Look on Google.

  60. Hardly new news by The+Real+Chrisjc · · Score: 1

    I saw this years and years ago when I was surfing around for information on making a computer dolby pro-logic decoder, although, I'd like to make a ac3 decoder now, but thats another story entirely ;). Whats the point of this article? You still need very expensive bit of software to make them in to wavs. ..

  61. Priceless by tswinzig · · Score: 2

    And to the poor shmucks who listen to music on a satellite-subwoofer combo: I hope you don't ever come near a high-end audio system. If you do, you will probably realize that your system totally sucks, and will have to replace at least two of those speakers (and probably the amp). There is quite a bit of very tangible difference. Sort of like the difference between a 128k MP3 and the real uncompressed file.

    DVD-Audio disc: $20

    Satellite-subwoofer combo: $600

    High-end audio system: $20,000+

    Not being an elitist, audiophile prick, so you can't tell the difference: Priceless!

    --

    "And like that ... he's gone."
  62. Quadraphonics rears its ugly head again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This achieves full surround playback at somewhat reduced fidelity due to the 256 kbps data rate, but at a size of only 2 Megabytes per minute of 5.1 audio.


    I'll repeat that-
    "somewhat reduced fidelity"

    That was the problem with the original Quadraphonics back in the '70s. The problem was for equal fidelity, you had to spend more than twice as much, since you needed two of everything except the power supply, and it needed to be beefed up.

    The bottom line was that a $1000 stereo sounded pretty damned good, but a $1000 quadraphonic setup sounded like the cheap crap it had to be. Fidelitywise, a $1000 quad system sounded the same as a $250 mono system.

    They've partly gotten eround the problem two ways- first, the speakers are the biggest expnse, and woofers the biggest of THAT expense. So they got rid of all but one woofer on the mistaken grounds that you can't tell the direction of a bass tone, and renemed all the drivers, calling a woofer a "subwoofer" and a midrange driver a "woofer".

    It's still a stupid concept. Twisting my head in a theater because a sound came from behind me spoils the immersion. And with music, I have yet to attend any show where I was surrounded by the band.

    Maybe next time they'll get it right- a speaker at each corner of the screen, so you could have up and down movement as well as right and left.

    But putting speakers behind you, except in the car with its horrible acoustics, is as stipid in 1992 as it was in 1972.

    Quadrophonic "surround sound" is for ignorant people with a lot of money.

  63. Walter Carlos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    *ahem*

    Walter was great, but a bit repressed.
    Wendy was great, but every time someone rang her at Bell, she salivated.

    One day, Walter became Wendy. Then Walter was no more.

    Now Wendy delivers the score.

    (No, it's not a troll, but a bit of inside info)

  64. DVD Audio? by intermodal · · Score: 1

    This'll never happen...the RIAA will never stand for that much music to be sold on one disk, since people won't pay the hundreds of dollars they'd demand for that much music...

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  65. Audiophiles can bite my thing. by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 2

    Besides, when you're at a concert, you don't sit in the middle of the stage, so the only source of sound is from the front.

    Have you ever been to a concert? There's ALWAYS some asshole behind you talking loudly to his buddy while you're trying to enjoy the music.
    With surround-sound audio, that experience can be accurately recreated!

    What's the point of stereo, anyway? All the sound is coming from a single point -- the stage! Maybe there's a PA system with a big speaker at each end of the stage, but chances are the same signal (or close to it) is coming out of both speakers, so that the balance is the same no matter where in the venue you're seated.

    The sole purpose of recorded audio should NOT be to accurately reproduce the experience of being at a concert (what ever that is).

    And to the poor shmucks who listen to music on a satellite-subwoofer combo: I hope you don't
    ever come near a high-end audio system.


    I hope so too, because it would probably mean I would have to get a lecture on fidelity from the insufferable asshole that owns the system.

    Our "low-end" systems are good enough for us "poor shmucks". We're happy. Leave us alone.

  66. Uhuuuh... by Mulletproof · · Score: 2

    Sure it's usually edited. But the the producers had to commision the artists to produce the entire song, which is factored into the movie production budget whose cost in it's entirety is passed on through the DVD, distrubted via 100,000s of copies. This cost is also defrayed by movie-goers at the theaters, who's primary job is not to sell you tickets, but popcorn and condiments. In fact, that is the entire reason hollywood exists-- To sell you food. And you think I'm joking. Nope. In any case, since all that cost is a package deal with the DVD I bought, I own the soundtrack to that DVD. Why pay for it twice when you've already paid for it once? And believe me, you have paid for it.

    --
    You need a FREE iPod Nano
  67. Conventional stereo by uncoveror · · Score: 2

    You can get good surround effects from conventional stereo by placing your speakers to your left and right, where your ears are, not in front of you, where your eyes are. After all, we listen to sounds, we don't look at them. Try it sometime. Maybe you won't need to make Dolby AC3 CDs.

    --
    The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
    1. Re:Conventional stereo by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

      Number of listening points required to hear 3d sound: two. Your ears.

      Number of sound sorces required to create 3d sound: 1.

      Sound can be identified as coming from a direction by the differences in what your ears hear. If somebody is talking to you, standing directly to your left, then you'll hear them perfectly in your left ear, but your right ear will hear it a bit later, and muffled by your head being in the way.

      With two point sources for creating sound, and a model of what the average human head is like, you can dynamically adjust what's coming out of each speaker to adjust for that, and create fully '3d' sounding sound without requiring more than two speakers. But unless the acoustic model being used matches you perfectly, it won't sound perfect. Hence, it can simply be easier to create more sound sources.

      For real fun, go find an Aureal sound card and play with the 'helicopter' demo. It's....enlightening.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  68. Sticks and stones..... by Ride-My-Rocket · · Score: 2

    Can break bones -- all kids are taught that lesson / rhyme at a very early age!

  69. Resampling from 48 kHz to 44.1 kHz by DSP_Geek · · Score: 1

    The author says:
    "But be aware that the AC-3 file on a DVD is recorded at 48 kHz. rather than the 44.1 kHz needed for playback from a CD player. And I don't know of any way to convert one from 48 to 44.1 without going through a lengthy decode/sample-rate-convert/encode process which would suffer a lot of fidelity loss."

    Resampling is a solved problem. One can do it with any desired fidelity by lengthening the filters to reduce aliasing distortion, although once you get below the least significant bit further improvements become academic.

    SSE or Altivec (vector math instructions for Pentium III and Motorola G4 respectively) would absolutely shine in this application - you could probably get resampling rates an order of magnitude better than real-time, modulo some assembly code and a custom app for the job.

  70. wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The poster wrote:
    "While this is only audio, it is a good step in the right direction."

    Is ushering in an era of newfound piracy capabilities the "right direction"? Is that the official position of Slashdot? Wow... I can't believe this site, recently I've been totally turned off.

    1. Re:wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always feel guilty accepting royalty cheques from my recordings. Surely years of training and sacrifice don't entitle me to a living in my profession. Pirate away.

  71. channels should be prioritized by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Over 70% of the audio in a movie will be in the center channel. Less than 5% (unless you are watching ID4) comes from the rears.

    Given this, why does it make sense to treat all channels equally? If the center channel is 70% of the experience, then alloting more data to it will allow the format to maximize the fidelity of the experience.

    On a personal note, I have to say that given identical source material, I can't tell the difference between DTS and AC3, nor SDDS for that matter.

    1. Re:channels should be prioritized by yroJJory · · Score: 1

      Again, we're not talking about movies right now, we're talking about music. And in music, all channels are equally important.

      --
      Jory
  72. Ignore this post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm trying to collect some spam for an anti-spam project. I'm hoping to get this address harvested.

    Sorry for the inconvience.

    spam@sheergeniussoftware.com

  73. mitrian would be proud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She provided the original inspiration to Illiad for that lyric.