Many Hackers Too Fat For The FBI

CaveDwler writes: "Want to work for the FBI in computer security? Better put down your cheesey poofs and pick up your M16. According to this article over on Wired, you have to pass physical requirements in order to work with FBI in computer security."

Comments

darwin

[Scrameustache]

"They will not consider you unless you can carry your M16 through the physical fitness course without killing yourself in the process,"

I think its fair, if you die in the test, they don't hire you.

Put down your cheesy poofs and pick up an M-16?

[Rayonic]

How is playing Counter-Strike going to help me lose weight?

The Dark Side?

[GuyMannDude]

"In order to be a good computer security person, you must think like a black-hat hacker and be able to understand the tools and methods of the dark side," Sweeny said.

Oh great. So not only do you have to be able to run the obstacle course but you gotta be able to choke people from a distance and fight little green hyper midgets.

GMD

mmmmm... Pot

[littleRedFriend]

One question on the application asked if you'd smoked pot more than 15 times

15 times? A day?

Guns

[t_allardyce]

Its always been my dream, to one day pull a gun and badge on someone and yell "Federal Agent, DONT MOVE!" or something cool like that. Unfortunately here in the UK theres nothing with any really catchy names, "Flying Squad" sounds lame, "MI5" sounds lame, the only cool thing i can think of is "Secret Service" but you would probably have to wisper it because its secret.. :( Even the police dont have cool 4-letter things like NYPD or LAPD. "Swansea Police, FREEZE!"

I think its important for all geeks that want to join the FBI to get fit, and cherish their ability to pull guns and shout catchy phrases even if they have desk jobs. Mulder had to pass the physical, Scully had to pass the... mmmmmmm.. she definatly passed it :)

Not joining FBI is the least of your problems...

[Skyshadow]

I saw a study the other day which concludes that being a couch potato is worse for you than a reasonably serious tobacco habit. So, not being able to join the FBI is the least of your problems -- being a blob with high blood pressure whose heart is being transformed into a ten- or twenty-year time bomb ranks a lot higher.

Don't be content to be a fat fuck, and don't let yourself off with "Gee, I'm just too busy to exercise" or "Exercise is for stupid jocks" excuse. There are better ways to flirt with death than to sit on your ass 18 hours a day chugging Dew and eating Ho Hos.

Here's my 20 minute-a-day, 4 times a week solution: Get out and run. Two and a quarter miles or so in about 20 minutes will put you in reasonably good shape. It doesn't hurt to squeeze in some work with free weights, either, but you can work up to that. In any event, start off slow and work up to your goal over a couple of months, and *don't* let yourself plateau too early.

Oh, and good shoes are really important. I highly recommend New Balance.

Re:doughnut crumbs in the keyboard

[Skyshadow]

but would they be as tech smart and on top of things?

After flirting with exercise for about two years, I finally started working out on a seriously regular basis about four months ago (every weekday, 1 hour, rain or shine or apocolypse).

I find that I have increased energy and, as an extention, less need for caffine and a generally clearer head (esp. during those hours after lunch when everyone else is half-asleep). IMO, I absorb information much more easily and am better able to "wrap my head" around things.

As a bonus, I find that the time I spend working out (I run and lift free weights) is rivaled only by my morning shower in terms of inspiration potential -- you're concentrating only on the mundane task at hand, and your brain is free to dedicate extra cycles towards solving problems.

That's just one geek's observations; your milage may vary.

Not fat, not scrawny.

[GuyMannDude]

They're not just ruling out the fat ones. They're rejecting all the ones that don't have a buff bod and those who wear glasses. Remember, a gentlemen agent not only has to be smart but has to be good looking enough to seduce the sexy Russian and Chinese evil hacker agents that he will undoubtably encounter in exotic locales. Don't you watch the movies, man? Everyone knows this shit!

GMD

Re:Fat? Where?

[fishbowl]

>>I'd think the "college degree" required bit
>>would be a bigger limiting factor.

Not really. Universities churn them out by the thousands, every year. And many of them are quite buff, physically, emotionally, mentally.

When we read stories like this article, and hear about some overwieght, aging geek who got the wild
hair to go into law enforcement when it suddenly appeared lucrative, and was rejected, we are supposed to sympathize. Perhaps we should, somewhat, but we must also consider that despite the requirements, and no matter what hype you hear to the contrary, most Federal agencies are having no problems whatsoever finding qualified applicants. There are a lot of people out there entering the workforce. It appears to me that there was a little babyboom in the more-is-more 1980s, and those kids are coming of age. I wish there was a way to get credible census information in this kind of detail, but I'll bet $1 that there are more 18-25 year olds today than there have ever been in history.

In the case of the Federal law enforcement agencies, they usually have enough applicants just from former MP's, who have degrees, are physically fit, and have records that show distinguished military service.

The "average geek" will refuse to believe that a business major or enlisted soldier could be as effective in computer security, network administration, or programming than he, but it is merely a perception based on prejudice, and not necessarily based in reality.

I'm not even sure the "typical geek" would survive at all in a regimented, authoritarian work enviromnent. Quasi-military police work?

The story sensationalizes the "overweight" factor, but I believe strongly that the man being over 35 and just now wanting to go into law enforcement is a bigger red flag. You really should start that career at 20. Perhaps at 18, beginning either with a few years of military service or majoring in criminal justice or political science. When it's time to retire from police work, you'll probably have a law degree to fall back on!

But don't wait until you're almost 40, already burnt out, and THEN decide you want this type of career -- and if you do, don't try to blame not getting the job on your weight. There are a large number of factors working against this individual; the weight thing is just one; more of a symptom of the whole.

Re:Not joining FBI is the least of your problems..

[Skyshadow]

but i cant run as you suggest, especially 2 miles, i can barely walk 1 mile (if i can at all).. if i ran id pass out after about 100 feet. so whats your suggestion?

Two steps:
1. Recognize that your excuses are all self-defeating bullshit.
2. Work up to your goal.

Seriously, the only things keeping 99% of us from being healthy are the convenient little excuses we make for ourselves (some people have medical problem, but few are so serious as to preclude an active lifestyle).

Look around and tell me how many really fat 40 year olds you see. Now, how many 50 year olds? 60? Am I getting through here?

Being active gives you a lot of things: it makes you more physically attractive to most people, you'll have more energy, you'll fit into a single airline seat, you'll be stronger and generally more able to keep up with life, but the biggie is still this: If you're fat, you're going to die before you have to.

Re:It's not the physical reqs that turn away peopl

[Stonehand]

Maybe they want people who already know what the limits of what they can and cannot do are, and how law enforcement generally operates.

That way, the new guy doesn't bollux up an investigation by committing some mistake which a defense attorney can present as a violation of his client's rights and grounds for dismissal. They'd also likely have a better grounding in who and what you're dealing with, on the other side -- and it won't just be against stereotypical "black hats" getting their rocks off by DOSing some high-profile .com, either.

At least, that's one possible explanation. Another is just that they cut-and-pasted requirements from their other divisions without being overly concerned about it. I'm not a Fed, so I wouldn't know.

Re:The practices are strange...

[Alsee]

It's stupid to hire people that can do one and only one thing well in law enforcement. These are the people who need to be able to do a multitude of things to 'survive' at times.

Exactly. As a computer specialist sitting in an office all day you never know when you're going to have to chase a suspect up a fire escape.

-

Strangely, this actually makes some sense

[tunabomber]

The chronic daemons out there would know that you might have to smoke pot up to 15 times before you build up enough of a reverse tolerance to get high. So, I'm guessing that the reasoning behind the FBI choosing 15 as their "magic number" is that if you've toked up that many times, then you must have gotten high at least once, but decided it's not your thing. People who could turn down weed after getting high off of it would then be less likely to care about defending its users or advocating its legalization than somebody who smoked the stuff continuously for a period of their life.

Re:Easier said than done

[koreth]

exercise is miserable. It is painful. It is hard, horrible work.

Running isn't the only form of exercise. I'm 5'9" and used to weigh close to 200 pounds. Now I weigh around 160. Four years ago I decided enough was enough and made some changes, some big and some small:

• Diet soda instead of regular soda. If you're a 4-cans-of-soda-a-day geek, this alone saves you a good 500 calories a day with essentially no effort or change in lifestyle. Takes a few weeks to get used to the different flavor but you do get used to it. Later I switched to water and treated myself to a movie a week with the money I saved.

• Swimming. My condo complex had a swimming pool. I started using it every day after work. At first I just dog-paddled around until I got tired, which didn't take long. But gradually I could stay out longer and longer and started doing different kinds of strokes around the pool. The key is gradually -- I didn't try to force myself to hit some arbitrary time limit, I just swam until I was nearly out of steam, then stopped.

• Moderation. I sum this up as "put a little bit back." If I poured myself a bowl of cereal, I'd take my usual amount, then grab a handful out of the bowl and stick it back in the box. At restaurants I'd chop off a piece of my food and either give it to someone else or set it aside and not eat it. The idea here wasn't to go on a crash diet, just to cut back a bit while still enjoying what I usually ate.

• Cooking. Rather than eating out all the time and getting God only knows how much fat and sugar, I started cooking my own meals more and more often. This was probably the biggest factor in my weight loss; when you control exactly what goes into your meals, you're able to control your intake of calories. Plus, believe it or not, cooking is a lot of fun once you get over the initial learning curve; it's a puzzle-solving exercise to figure out what's going to go well with what, how to optimize a recipe to take as little time and effort as possible but still taste good, etc. Unintended side benefit: after keeping at it for a few years, I'm a much better cook than most of the women I date, which can be a big turn-on!

• Hitting a gym twice a week. Gyms are good for people who have no idea how to start exercising; they have staff members who are trained and paid to ease you into a workable exercise program. You may think only a dumb jock would work at a gym, and you'll certainly find them there, but you'll also find some of the personal trainers are smart, well-educated folks who consider it a personal achievement to get someone started on the road to fitness. The first time I visited a gym, one of the trainers recommended a series of machines I could go through, all of which allowed me to ratchet up the difficulty level at my own pace as I felt comfortable with it. I started off only being able to burn about 75 calories on a stationary bike (according to the bike's computer) but eventually worked my way up to 375 -- hardly championship cycling but enough for steady weight loss. And I got to listen to some good books-on-tape while I was at it.

• Dancing. A little under three years ago a friend at work turned me on to ballroom dance, and it's how I get most of my exercise now. It's proof positive that exercise is not necessarily a hideous, awful affair. In many respects it's the geek's dream exercise program: it's highly structured yet intensely creative, it gets you close to attractive members of the opposite sex with essentially no effort, it's as much a mental workout as a physical one (especially for guys when the floor is crowded -- you'll have to use the same fast thinking skills you do in a good videogame) and it's a chance to be appreciated for your skills and expertise. And as a matter of fact, I'd say a good 75% of the ballroom dance guys I've met work in technology or science. There's a bit of a learning curve, granted, but name another geek-guy hobby that'll cause cute women to rush toward you but not get that far because some other cute woman got to you first!

The point is, it didn't take a massive, up-front dose of self-discipline to point myself in the right direction. I started off slow and built up over time, and now I'm in the best shape I've been in nearly 20 years. I'm maybe a bit more stubborn than some, but fundamentally anyone could do what I've done.