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Bruce Perens Canned by HP

bmarklein writes "Bruce Perens has been fired by HP for "Microsoft-baiting". This was linked in part to the HP-Compaq merger, since Windows is now a much bigger part of HP's business."

19 of 593 comments (clear)

  1. Microsoft's dominance by DamnYankee · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This shows the reach and depth of fear that Microsoft's monopoly can instill in even the biggest and baddest companies on the planet.

    I doubt that this came from a purely internal HP-Compaq decision. The forces that be in Redmond probably played a role.

    What is Bruce on to next?

    --

    Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
    William Shakespeare

    1. Re:Microsoft's dominance by rknop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This shows the reach and depth of fear that Microsoft's monopoly can instill in even the biggest and baddest companies on the planet.

      How? You think MS told them to fire Perens?

      How about this for a try. HPQ makes millions and millions selling Windows only things. MILLIONS. They probably lose money on their Linux divison- but even if they are profitable, its not to the degree (because of scale for sure) of the Windows division.

      You go on to answer your own "how". Microsoft doesn't have to have Bill call up Carly and say "fire that Perens bastard" to have a bully-like dominance that causes other companies to dance to its tune. The very fact that Windows is so dominant and that Microsoft is so huge is what prevents true competition from getting a foothold. Microsoft doesn't need bully tactics, they can just carry on like a normal monopoly and everybody will feel bullied anyway. (Of course, we know that Microsoft does in fact use bully tactics; witness them telling Dell that Dell wasn't allowed to sell OS-less PCs.)

      -Rob

    2. Re:Microsoft's dominance by ryanvm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The very fact that Windows is so dominant and that Microsoft is so huge is what prevents true competition from getting a foothold. Microsoft doesn't need bully tactics, they can just carry on like a normal monopoly and everybody will feel bullied anyway.

      Just to be the devils advocate (saying that is how you keep from getting modded as a troll around here) - did you ever consider that perhaps Perens' MS bashing was hurting HPQ's bottom line?

      HPQ probably makes 1000x times more selling MS-loaded computers than Linux-loaded systems. Perens running around telling everyone how insecure MS software is probably doesn't help them move those MS-loaded systems now does it?

      Who knows, if Perens had spent less time MS bashing and more time evangelizing open source maybe he'd still be at HPQ.

  2. Corporate economics by mwber · · Score: 5, Insightful

    HP needs a big cash inflow to survive. Microsoft currently supplies that. Linux currently doesn't. Case closed. Corporations tend to think of themselves of amoral money-making ventures, and often, with huge companies like HP, any overtures to supporting open source are simply PR moves. PR moves are usually less important than simple cash inflow. If the inflow is going to disrupted by PR (like Bruce Perens), they just chop it off.

    1. Re:Corporate economics by Bilestoad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft is the world's most profitable company because they ensure that their partners (who create machines that use Windows) survive. Microsoft wants everyone to survive so that there is always price war in the hardware sector. The more competitors there are the lower prices get. So yes, they make money by giving it away.

      Read joelonsoftware.com - he has an excellent article about the complements of products. Essentially, if you drive down the cost of a product's complement (as a PC is to Windows) you sell more and make more money. Another example, MP3 players sell like hot cakes because it's easy to get free music.

    2. Re:Corporate economics by mshiltonj · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Corporations tend to think of themselves of amoral money-making ventures

      That's what they. We would *all* do well to never forget that. I like Red Hat, and I support them, but they *are* a corpration. So is VA Software.

      It is never advisable to place any trust in a corportion.

  3. Motivations. by Some+guy+named+Chris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I'm not just going to sit back and be a quiet engineer. I have a two-year-old son and I don't want him to grow up in a world that is less free." -- Bruce Perens (from the article)

    I once had someone I admired tell me that "You shouldn't live for anything you aren't willing to die for". I've tried to incorporate that in my decision processes. Clearly, Bruce believes his child, and his freedom is more worth living for than his job at HP.

    I get his motivation, I understand where he is coming from, and so, I can relate to him, and less readily dismiss him as a zealot, crackpot, or trouble maker, which is sadly the case with some other prominant free software advocates.

    So, Bruce, thanks. You have my respect, even if you haven't got a job.

    1. Re:Motivations. by killmenow · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Their responsibility is to their shareholders.
      I get so sick of hearing this. Here in America (don't know so much about how it is elsewhere) we are indoctrinated to believe a company's sole responsibility is to their shareholders. The only thing that matters is ROI for the shareholders, blah, blah, blah...

      It's bullshit on a grand scale. While companies do have a responsibility to their shareholders, they also have a greater responsibility to the world at large. But nobody wants to admit that because then all those morally questionable (if not outright unethical) activities designed to reward CEOs and the Board of Directors while fscking the employees, environment, and basically the rest of the world would no longer be "questionable" at all; and then they'd lose all their money and power.

      Just because companies in the US routinely act as though their only responsibility is to shareholders, it doesn't make it so.

      Now, before you go thinking I'm a leftist nutbag liberal socialist <insert label here>, I understand and agree that companies are usually formed for the intended purpose of making a profit. That's all well and good, and making a profit is a wonderful motivator. There's nothing wrong with profit.

      I'm just saying the belief that companies have no responsibilities to anyone other than their shareholders is wrong and a company whose sole purpose is to make a profit is incorporated for the wrong reason. It's unfortunate, but I believe the mantra of the modern American CEO (as said best by Daffy Duck) is:
    2. Re:Motivations. by mvdwege · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On the other hand, a point I was trying to make in another post in this discussion, is that it's about integrity.

      A company may try to do the best for its shareholders, but the point is that they don't realise that integrity is actually good for the shareholders.

      A lack of integrity will earn you the distrust of the market, and that is bad for the company, and bad for the stock price. In fact, it is my personal opinion that the current low consumer confidence in the U.S. (remember that consumer spending drives the U.S. economy) is due to low corporate integrity.

      HP/Compaq touting their support for Linux on the one hand, and firing a major advocate on the other shows their lack of integrity, and is ultimately damaging for the company. They better hope Microsoft is good for them, because that's all they'll be left with if they continue on this path.

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  4. Office politics are more important than business? by mvdwege · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...or integrity for that matter?

    Funny. Compaq (now HP) is running large ads in the trade press touting that they were the first major company to support Linux and Open Source.

    Now they fire a major advocate? Sounds like the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

    Oh, wait, that's what those corporate types mean that a merger brings synergies and the opportunity to eliminate redundancies.

    Well, so far HP/Compaq sounds like a typical merged company: the power politics of the officers of the originating companies are more important than anything else. They'll either spend 5 years trying to get their shop integrated (meanwhile facing dwindling market share), or they'll undo the merger, with the usual corporatespeak (divestiture, focusing on core business, spinning off unprofitable divisions) that all come down to 'we screwed up; please don't hurt us!'.

    </cynism>

    Mart
    --
    "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  5. thinking matters by tanveer1979 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    " I have a two-year-old son and I don't want him to grow up in a world that is less free."

    If more people thought this way, the world would really be more freer.

    --
    My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
    FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
  6. tells us a lot about HP by g4dget · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Companies like IBM have a large contingent of people that loathe Microsoft and aren't afraid to speak out about it, yet IBM seems to be able to deal with both Microsoft and its customers just fine, and IBM is able to deliver a wide variety of systems. In fact, from a customer's point of view this is good: if a company has Windows, UNIX, mainframe, and open source people inside it, it is much more likely that advice and recommendations from the company will be based on technical considerations, rather than whatever is available. With a company that only bets on Microsoft, you already know the answer to any of your questions is going to be "Microsoft", whether that makes sense or not.

    If HP is so threatened by a single person like Perens, they must really be in deep trouble. Apparently, The New HP is trying hard to become The New Unisys. Too bad--DEC and HP used to be nice companies. Compaq just keeps eating up one company after another, digesting them, well, and you know what comes out the other end.

  7. Completely backwards! by wind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After it bought Compaq this year, the combined company became the largest single buyer of Windows for personal computers and data-serving computers, and thus more dependent on Microsoft.

    Am I the only one who thinks this is just ass-backward from the way you'd expect things to be in an open market? So, HP/Compaq becomes MS's biggest customer. Back in the olden days, it would mean that *MS* would quake in fear and bend over backwards not to piss off their biggest client, lest they lose their business. Nowadays, it appears to mean that HP/Compaq needs to be careful lest they upset their vendor.

    It's ridiculous. And, frankly, it should stop. Too bad short-term shareholder value has to take precedence over long-term strategic planning (like finding a way to get out from underneath MS's thumb).

  8. Backwards... by MrWa · · Score: 5, Insightful
    After it bought Compaq this year, the combined company became the largest single buyer of Windows for personal computers and data-serving computers, and thus more dependent on Microsoft


    Does this not seem wrong to anyone else? Sense when does the supplier dictate the terms and not the largest customer? This, more than anything else I think, demonstrates that Microsoft has gone from being a viable solution for decent software to a company that needs to be reigned in.


    The problem now, though, is that market forces will have to accomplish this. We already know that the government is incapable of stopping Microsoft from doing what it wants. Short of breaking the company into two or three parts, things will continue the way they are.

  9. Re:hmmmm....somehow I am not realy sure about that by TheGreek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not possible to argue against Linux? Not to be an ass or anything, but FreeBSD is just as malleable as Linux, and has the bonus of not falling under the syphilis of software licenses.

    Please cite examples where competent Windows administrators who kept up with Windows patches were stymied by a Windows problem that kept mission-critical systems down.

    For every example you provide, counter-examples can be found for Linux. The VM upheaval in early 2.4 (so-called "stable" series). The ext2fs corruption in early 2.2 (once again, so-called "stable" series).

    Anybody with blind faith to The One True Operating System doesn't understand very much about computing at all. Yes, Linux is malleable to the point of silliness, but why make a new hammer out of clay when Microsoft and IBM already have steel hammers that are have a much longer, and more proven, track record?

  10. Re:Free market, anyone? by jefu · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It is often said :

    "A corporation has no soul to damn and no body to kick" (variously "kill", "punish").

    This comes from the Baron Thurlow, the Lord Chancellor of England in the 1700's and as far as I can tell (http://www.xrefer.com) the full and correct quote is :

    "Corporations have neither bodies to be punished, nor souls to be condemned, they therefore do as they like."

    Or you might prefer this from Ambrose Bierce :

    "Corporation: an ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility."

    More at http://www.endgame.org/primer-quotes.html. These quotes (naturally) apply to HP, to MS, to Dell, Red Hat and so on

  11. Re:Non-sequitor by sphealey · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I don't get it. If I moved from n to 1 on the list of a vendor's customers, why wouldn't I see increased leverage with my vendor?
    You are living on a space station. You purchase your oxygen from the largest oxygen vendor. He is in fact the only one big enough to supply the needs of the majority of those souls you are responsible for. You are also the oxygen vendor's largest customer.

    What happens if you get into a dispute with the oxygen vendor and threaten to cut off your purchases? If worse comes to worst and you do stop buying from him, he might go bankrupt. On the other hand he might not - there are a lot of people who need to breathe. You on the other hand will certainly die.

    That's the problem the OEMs face when dealing with Microsoft.

    sPh

  12. Re:Non-sequitor by analog_line · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's more a measure of the influence that the incoming Compaq people are having on HP. Compaq, overall, was staunchly a pro-Microsoft computer maker, far more than HP ever was. Compaq's lifeblood was machines running Windows 2000. HP had other irons in the fire, and could deal with a more tepid relationship.

    When I was working there as a consultant, pro-Microsoft propaganda was everywhere. Sure, there were plenty of Linux people working there, but it was really under the radar. Microsoft was the party line and woe to anyone who would challenge that too vocally. Yeah, Compaq didn't mind if Linux ran on their machines, but they didn't really put a whole lot of effort into it. IIRC, Microsoft bought an obscene number of Compaq machines during the time I was there. There was also a massive Windows 2000 migration push at the time, which may have been related to it.

    I've posted regarding this before, but I think it bears restatement. There are an AWFUL lot of strong personalities in what used to be Compaq, hardened by a bitter internal war during the days after the Digital merger. Large caliber bullets didn't fly, but there was a whole lot of political fallout, even when I was there long after the merger (for about a year, from summer 2000 to summer 2001 before the consultancy I worked for laid me off). The "HP Way", as laid back as it's projected to be, I believe, cannot stand up to the hardened take-no-prisoners warriors at Compaq. Sure, alot of people at Compaq are going to get laid off, but sometimes you have to sacrifice your own men in a battle to win a war, and I would bet that's how the Compaq people see it, a war to save their way of doing things, and in the end, their personal employment.

  13. The devolution of HP by jmichaelg · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This appears to be yet another step in the devolution of HP. HP used to be a world leader in so many areas - calculators, printers, computers, cpus, medical equipment, lab equipment, etc.

    However, since the founders died, the company looks to have been taken over by managers who are primarily interested in their paycheck, not the well being of the company. For example, one of the driving factors behind the Compaq merger was the fact that Carly got a $70 Million bonus check if the merger went through. Lord knows what she would have earned had the Price-Waterhouse acquisition taken place.

    The corporate logo "HP Invent," alludes to an inventive spirit at HP but unfortunately, that spirit is the spirit of HP-past. I've seen exactly one interesting idea come out of HP in the past 2 years and that was a cooling device - not something that'll generate billions in sales. Carly was a History major at Stanford so she's obviously got some smarts. But they're the wrong kind - she doesn't have the technological background to recognize really good technical ideas when she sees them and so must rely on her staff to evaluate them for her. The inevitable "what does she want to hear?" filtering takes place and in that process and HP is all the poorer for it.

    The next time the HP board goes looking for a new CEO (like in the next 18 months maybe...), hopefully they'll choose someone who not only has some sales smarts but is also technologically competent. And perhaps, if they've learned anything, the compensation plan will reflect the CEO's effect on HP's bottom line, not how many pointless mergers the CEO steers the company through.